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Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 30 Minutes ago by: Clifford Heath I long ago gave up trying to answer Ricky, though my resolve sometimes stumbles. He has a kind of willful incomprehension that prevents him from receiving input, either on technical subjects or about his own incapacities... even the ex
Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 49 Minutes ago by: b...@gmx.com [snip] Don't want to disturb your argument, but: If it has a male connector, it's most likely DTE wired, if it has a female one, it's most likely DCE wired. There's a ~3% chance that this guess is wrong, but whoever designs comms equip
Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 1 Hour 24 Minutes ago by: Don Y Enough to have retired, comfortably, more than 10 years ago! How long you planning on slogging away at it?
Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 1 Hour 26 Minutes ago by: Don Y Ah, so now we know -- you're just here to waste our time. I'm so glad you admitted that! I'm sure people will keep that in mind as they consider whether or not to answer future questions that you pose!
Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 1 Hour 28 Minutes ago by: Don Y Yes, learning that your questions are of little substance -- easily dismissable. Wonder what others will think of your FUTURE questions?
Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 1 Hour 29 Minutes ago by: Rick C Yeah, you are good at your job I guess. Does it pay much?
Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 1 Hour 30 Minutes ago by: Don Y I'm enjoying showing others your silliness. I seem to be doing a pretty good job at it!
Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 1 Hour 41 Minutes ago by: Rick C Indeed. I think you are learning... rather slowly, but learning nonetheless.
Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 1 Hour 42 Minutes ago by: Rick C You continue to not understand the application, yet you feel qualified to recommend solutions. Yes, you are very much the sort of consultant that gives the group as a whole, a bad name. I can't waste your time. That is entirely up t
Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 1 Hour 58 Minutes ago by: Don Y Blue. No, maybe a light shade of violet.
Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 1 Hour 59 Minutes ago by: Rick C It's best not to follow in Don's footsteps. Do you really think nothing has happened in regards to this? Do you think I've been twiddling my thumbs? I barely have time to think about this effort, and nearly none to do it. But it's loo
Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 1 Hour 59 Minutes ago by: Don Y As I said elsewhere this thread: "some people are slow learners". <rolls eyes>
Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 1 Hour 59 Minutes ago by: Don Y "Multi-million dollar job". And you're dicking around with nickels and dimes? Buy 20 BRAND SPANKING NEW pc's and be done with it! Wow, what a great businessman -- not! I'd hate to see you waste it -- as you have, ours!
Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 2 Hours 1 Minute ago by: Rick C What is the power supply voltage?
Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 2 Hours 1 Minute ago by: Rick C I don't expect anything from you, and so far, you have not disappointed. What board? The one with insufficient information? No, but you still fail to understand that I never expected an answer to the question. It was a question tha
Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 2 Hours 16 Minutes ago by: Rick C Some people think small. I'm currently negotiating a multi-million dollar job. This design is actually for my brother who needs a gadget and so far, has not been able to find anyone to help him. There are a few people who have contacte
Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 3 Hours 20 Minutes ago by: Jim Jackson That was my thought wwwwaaaayyyy back!
Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 3 Hours 28 Minutes ago by: Don Y Says a guy who spawned a 2.5 month long thread OVER A PINOUT! Wow! I wonder how long the thread will be about power supply voltages...
Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 3 Hours 49 Minutes ago by: Don Y -------^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\ Ah, so you're not an engineer. Not a technician. Comedian?? And my answer fits that dfescription. Here, Master Rick. Please, in clear English sentences of no more than 3 syllables, explain what you
Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 3 Hours 58 Minutes ago by: Don Y Wow, had you put this much effort into YOUR problem, you could have put a SoC on a board and written the page of code it would take to suit your problem. The BALANCE of the time, you could have ASSEMBLED the boards into boxes! It's now
Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 4 Hours 3 Minutes ago by: Rick C You still don't get it. In the post you replied to, there was a board referenced. It even gave the same general info YOU provided in response, about TXD, RXD, DTE and DCE. BUT IT DIDN'T SAY DIDDLY ABOUT WHICH PIN WAS INPUT AND WHICH WA
Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 4 Hours 50 Minutes ago by: Don Y I gave the only answer that anyone COULD give to your silly question. Were you hoping someone here was USING the exact same board AND had explored that issue in enough detail to yield a pin number? Instead of just "Gee, I dunno. It work
Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 6 Hours 48 Minutes ago by: Rick C In case anyone is interested, I think I've found a good board level solution. Arduino Mega coupled to this board to provide RS-232. https://leemangeophysical.com/product/rs-232-arduino-mega-xbee-data-shield/ It has no DB9 connectors,
Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 6 Hours 57 Minutes ago by: Rick C Exactly. You gave a dissertation to answer a question that has not been asked. The worst part is, you can't understand why your answer is not relevant. That's because you are doing a great job of talking, but a crap job of listening.
Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 7 Hours 10 Minutes ago by: Rick C No, you can't. You completely fail to understand what is going on with this issue. What does YOUR box have to do with my project? You are projecting your imaginings, onto a conversation that is very different from what you are talki
Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 7 Hours 45 Minutes ago by: Don Y You still fail to see how this applies to "determining which pin is the output". Wow, can a person get any denser? Hey, rick, I've got a box here. It's got a DB25 connector on it. Is it for a printer? Serial port? SCSI interface? I'
Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 7 Hours 48 Minutes ago by: Don Y I suspect it is you who don't understand what you're saying. "Or better yet, just answer the question asked, on this device, which pin on the DB9 connector is the data output and which is the data input?" I gave you a very deliberate a
Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 7 Hours 57 Minutes ago by: Dimiter_Popoff Because I do read the group and your lame whining is a bit excessive. Notice I kept silent before you got into abuse/whine mode. You have been a whiner ever since I know you on Usenet, decades by now. So I am not asking you to disappear,
Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 8 Hours 28 Minutes ago by: David Brown I suspect you have been in s.e.d. too long, and other groups too little. (To be fair, there's not a lot of traffic in many of the technical groups.) You are a polite and respectful poster by s.e.d. standards, but not by the standard
Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 9 Hours 1 Minute ago by: Rick C No, YOU stop it! Why do you feel you needed to post any of this? Why are you whining?
Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 9 Hours 19 Minutes ago by: Dimiter_Popoff Oh stop it Rick. Your initial question - about board availability - was valid, you must have googled, not found anything and asked here; so far so good. Then you started talking about signal polarities, RS-232 standards etc., things most
Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 9 Hours 55 Minutes ago by: Rick C Correct, but it is not appropriate to hijack a thread. Doing that turns every group into s.e.d. Correct that I don't own the group or the thread. I'm simply pointing out that in contrast to convention and courteous behavior, Don is
Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 10 Hours 1 Minute ago by: Rick C Don, you very clearly have no understanding of the posts I have made. Please don't bother to reply until you do. Thank you,
Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 10 Hours 2 Minutes ago by: Rick C You are off topic in this thread. Why not start your own thread, rather than polluting this one?
Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 14 Hours 39 Minutes ago by: Don Y Some folks are slow to learn... No, BREAK detection! :> (Check your mail.)
Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 15 Hours 3 Minutes ago by: David Brown Rick, why are /you/ here? You have been on Usenet for decades, but still seem to struggle with the basics. A group like this is a discussion group. It is not your personal support channel. You do not have any rights to the group, o
Re: Text on FSM (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 15 Hours 50 Minutes ago by: Don Y I agree, and disagree. Where do you draw the line between disciplines? With hardware, you're exposed to lots of tools for logic reduction, etc. You learn about hazzards, races, etc. These aren't mentioned in software contexts -- but s
Re: Text on FSM (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 17 Hours 34 Minutes ago by: George Neuner This I think is a teaching failure. Before we go on here we have to clarify a possible terminology trap: "deterministic" vs "non-deterministic". In the context of FA, "deterministic" means that the machine can be only in one state at
Re: Text on FSM (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 18 Hours 48 Minutes ago by: Clifford Heath The stack means it's not a FA. Yacc and bison exist for the sole purpose of processing LALR2 grammars that cannot be processed with an FA. Also because the grammars are LALR, the stack is a bottom-up stack, so it doesn't resemble anyt
Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 20 Hours 35 Minutes ago by: Don Y No, YOU haven't. I twice made the statements about the standard. You didn't get the hint. Instead, you assumed I would engage you in a pointless discussion about what the pinout could be. In plain english: THERE IS NOTHING ANYONE HE
Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 20 Hours 35 Minutes ago by: Don Y To show that if you buy something (or, in my case, RESCUE something with no markings at all on it) for a KNOWN MARKET, then you can infer how a responsible design would pin the connectors. I rescued this item. I had no idea what sor
Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 21 Hours 36 Minutes ago by: Rick C Wow! He's gone from making overly verbose posts with far more description than needed, to making replies to himself, neither of which are needed. Don, why are you here? Why are you posting in this thread? You have gone completely of
Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 21 Hours 38 Minutes ago by: Rick C You seem to have gone off the weird end. I wish GG had a kill file feature.. At least you managed to post without overflowing everyone's input buffers. You seem to have a penchant for using 100 words, when 20 will do. Thanks for keep
Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 21 Hours 41 Minutes ago by: Rick C The comedy here, is that both of you think I was saying anything about RS-232 being useful here, as other than a voltage level standard. I expect that of you. I don't know George so well. I was playing the game, where questions are as
Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 21 Hours 44 Minutes ago by: Rick C And there is the problem. The RS-232 standard defines the interface between data terminal equipment and data communication equipment, at the data communication equipment interface. It says nothing about anything else. However, people u
Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 21 Hours 55 Minutes ago by: Rick C Fortunately, this effort only uses TX and GND on one port and RX and GND on the other port. I don't care what the TX and RX pins are called, one is input, the other output and we just need to connect the input to the device that is sendi
Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 1 Day 3 Hours ago by: Don Y And this is the COTS PC that I use as a name server: <https://mega.nz/file/Fi4hEACJ#YgVZ5tdZBjTcwW76gXC2vdgv5M6u4lTpUDAwu53Z9n8> Note the two serial ports (DTE as the standard dictates), 100BaseT network connection (it's just a na
Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 1 Day 3 Hours ago by: Don Y And you apparently do neither. <frown>
Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 1 Day 3 Hours ago by: Don Y This is the APC widget mentioned: <https://mega.nz/file/J35SBBob#FtQznCDovhBZHJdA5OspHdMo6_DiDMjQwtCqnh3Oa54> By (my) convention, the named device ("UPS") is located at the connector from which the label can be read (i.e., the connector
Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 1 Day 3 Hours ago by: Don Y Folks who haven't designed communications equipment where RS232 (in its various bastardized forms) don't understand that commenting on a product chosen (seemingly) at random from a producer of unknown character is pure folly. Simply beca
Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 1 Day 3 Hours ago by: Don Y Rick doesn't understand how the Standard is interpreted solely as "guidance", in the real world. The idea that someone ELSE could examine his choice of device from his chosen vendor and comment, in any meaningful way, suggests a naiv
Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 1 Day 4 Hours ago by: Dimiter_Popoff Hard to believe the long fossilized RS-232 horse can get all that beating again... Next thing let's beat the baud rate detection? :D
Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 1 Day 5 Hours ago by: Jim Jackson Many years ago I often had to connect up gear with RS232 interfaces, and it was a pain, as there was often no manual for the gear or the manual was badly written and the author used the RS232 "standard" terms in a cavalier way. So I u
Re: Text on FSM (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 1 Day 13 Hours ago by: Don Y Yes, though (IME) taught to different audiences and in different ways. My hardware classes talked about FSMs, Meely/Moore, "state diagrams" and optimization techniques. My software classes talked about DFAs, EBNFs, railroad diagrams b
Re: Text on FSM (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 1 Day 19 Hours ago by: George Neuner Actually you can serialize graphs as text, but the result may be varying degrees of difficult to read for a human. Trivial example: fire up Racket and enter #lang racket (require racket/serialize) (let ( [outer (mcons 0 (
Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 1 Day 21 Hours ago by: Rick C You are confused. I don't need any information about RS-232. Everything you are talking about is irrelevant. Virtually NO ONE uses RS-232 to connect DCE to DTE. They simply are tying together two devices that wish to use asynch serial
Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 1 Day 22 Hours ago by: George Neuner "Terminal Equipment" (TE) vs "Communications Equipment" (CE). DTE is the computer (terminal), DCE is the modem. To adhere to the RS-232 conventions, your external device has to be "communications equipment". Don explained the cables
Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 2 Days 19 Hours ago by: Paul Rubin Again there is a 3 step process going on: 1) note that a product of this sort exists, without remembering too much detail about it. 2) find the product description page again, and this time study it carefully including the pin diagrams,
Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 2 Days 21 Hours ago by: Rick C Yeah, that's just what engineers do. They throw some stuff together and test it, over and over, rather than actually understanding the requirements. I'm trying to get you to understand the issues, but you just aren't getting it. I don
Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 2 Days 21 Hours ago by: Paul Rubin Didn't I answer? I wrote: Pin 2 = data out, pin 3 = data in. Is something missing from that answer? There is a possibility that it is wrong and that the two are switched, but that would show up immediately during testing. It sound
Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 2 Days 21 Hours ago by: Don Y "Nominal" signal directions are specified from the standpoint of the DTE. Remember that one rule and everything else falls into place. I.e., a DCE receives data on the "Transmit Data" pin and transmits on the "Receive Data" pin. DTE,
Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 2 Days 22 Hours ago by: Rick C You are providing links to hardware. I'm asking you which pin is data out and which pin is data in? This is a very simple question, no? Do you know if that splitter will work for this application? I don't see the link. How many me
Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 2 Days 22 Hours ago by: Paul Rubin Sorry I meant DTE, not DTR. DTR is one of the signal pins. I believe I got the assignments right for DCE but maybe not. Anyway there are only two possibilities, and it's very easy to get stuff switched around someplace, so one always h
Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 2 Days 22 Hours ago by: Rick C Excellent Don. Now, please tell me which unit is the DCE and which is the DTE? Or better yet, just answer the question asked, on this device, which pin on the DB9 connector is the data output and which is the data input?
Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 2 Days 22 Hours ago by: Paul Rubin The transmit pin (TXD, pin 2 in that table) is the output and the receive pin (RXD, pin 3) is the input. Since it is a female connector, by the standard, the box is considered data communications equipment (DCE), rather than data termina
Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 3 Days 1 Hour ago by: Don Y "Nominal" signal directions are specified from the standpoint of the DTE. Remember that one rule and everything else falls into place. I.e., a DCE receives data on the "Transmit Data" pin and transmits on the "Receive Data" pin. [N
Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 3 Days 2 Hours ago by: Rick C You didn't answer the question. Which pin is the data output and which is the data input? Are you going to make the cable required? Recycling is not a problem, as long as there is no branding on the box. Are you going to wri
Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 3 Days 3 Hours ago by: Paul Rubin The pinout is given here: https://wiki.dfrobot.com/RS232_Shield How do you feel about using that board, with an Arduino? Digikey stocks it, if that helps: https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/dfrobot/DFR0258/6588574 How do you f
Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 3 Days 5 Hours ago by: Rick C There should be many things in this world.
Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 3 Days 5 Hours ago by: Hans-Bernhard_Bröke Of course he did. Finding that kind of box off-the-shelf was a very long shot, IMHO. Industrialized versions of the Raspberry Pi might have come close, but they're more likely to offer RS485 or 422, insead of 232.
Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 3 Days 5 Hours ago by: Hans-Bernhard_Bröke You said you home-brewed the level shifter. How else was anybody to interpret that?
Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 3 Days 6 Hours ago by: Herbert Kleebauer The same company (ledato.de, taskit.de) has also an ARM board with Ubuntu and 2 (or 3) RS232 ports which is cheaper: https://www.taskit.de/produkte/flex-iot/ https://youtu.be/Fsr8F6B7j0s
Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 3 Days 7 Hours ago by: Theo TXD (output of MAX2323ESE) is pin 2, RXD (input of MAX2323ESE) is pin 3. ie would connect to a PC via a straight-through cable, not a null modem. My email is on the bottom of http://www.markettos.org.uk/ (I am in the UK, if that makes
Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 3 Days 7 Hours ago by: Herbert Kleebauer with Linux installed. A lot of power consumption for such a task! An Atmel board would only consume about 0.4 W, for example something like that: https://www.ledato.de/product_info.php?products_id3 https://www.ledato.de/product_info.ph
Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 3 Days 8 Hours ago by: Rick C This device is exactly what makes this difficult. Which pin on the DB9 is the data output? You will need to post an email address. GG doesn't provide the email. Just HBBr...@t-online.de
Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 3 Days 9 Hours ago by: Rick C That's what they used. I simply meant it was not a commercial product on a PCB. Half the units have some problem. Did you think I meant they designed their own level shifter chip?
Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 3 Days 9 Hours ago by: Theo The problem is that commercial microcontroller boards like Arduinos tend to have TTL level serial ports (or USB ones). If you want a box holding one of those with some RS232 ports, you need to make a PCB with a MAX232 and a DB9, and an e
Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 3 Days 12 Hours ago by: Hans-Bernhard_Bröke Color me puzzled. Why on earth would anyone home-brew an RS232 level shifter, particularly for a project that could clearly afford using ready-made ICs like MAX232 instead?
Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 3 Days 15 Hours ago by: Paul Rubin I thought I had located one and posted a link here. I'll look again. I'm open to this but I'm probably not the best person for it, since I'm mostly a software guy. Do you have a timeframe? I can also check with other people I know wh
Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 3 Days 16 Hours ago by: Rick C Multiple. Some are in the DC area.
Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 3 Days 16 Hours ago by: Rick C That's one of the problems. Boards like Arduinos do not have RS-232 support. They have serial ports, but that's what was tried initially, with a home brew RS-232 level shifter added on a perf board. Don't know why, but half of them ten
Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 3 Days 16 Hours ago by: Rick C Yes, but initially I was looking for something more like an Arduino in a box. That never materialized. The solution we are looking at now, is a custom design someone did for another project, that suits our needs, but since the productio
Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 4 Days 8 Hours ago by: Paul Rubin You are really willing to spend $300 per box in that quantity? So $6000 or $12000 depending? This sounds very doable. Where is the deployment site geographically?
Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 4 Days 8 Hours ago by: Paul Rubin No, building a board would be crazy unless you're making 1000s of them. Pick an Arduino or similar board with RS232 support, pick some enclosure out of a catalog, put the stuff together, get the code running on the board and test everythi
Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 4 Days 14 Hours ago by: Theo We've been here before, but there are many many 'mini PCs' (often Celeron or similar low power CPU) coming out of China that have multiple RS232 ports. There doesn't seem to be much special about this one. If such a 'mini PC' is within
Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 4 Days 17 Hours ago by: Rick C The number of units required is initially 20, and probably another 20 in a few months. After that, not sure.
Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 4 Days 17 Hours ago by: Rick C If you are talking about someone to build a board, no thanks. That is what I meant to say in the post, but I guess I glossed over that. I found a platform that is affordable, even if it is way overkill. A custom board design is not nee
Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 4 Days 20 Hours ago by: Paul Rubin You still want someone to do this custom? What is your budget and how many units do you want? Did you ever find out more about the requirements? I know a good who is good at this stuff. You are probably looking at $1000 or more of NRE
Re: Text on FSM (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 4 Days 22 Hours ago by: Don Y I build FSMs similarly. But, you can't commit graphs to ASCII text whereas tables are a natural consequence. The difference seems largely to be that DFA are geared towards expressing "languages" (sequences of symbols) whereas FSMs are g
Re: Text on FSM (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 5 Days 3 Hours ago by: George Neuner Hi Don, Sorry for the delay here ... you know what's going on. On Tue, 14 Mar 2023 19:40:07 -0700, Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote: You merge multiple DFA by constructing an equivalent NDFA where all the transitions that le
Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 5 Days 4 Hours ago by: Rick C I was skimming the web for this again and I think I found something from Aaeon. Not sure why I didn't find this before. Maybe I did, but at that time was really looking for something with a simple CPU, rather than something to run a ful
Re: Text on FSM (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 12 Days 21 Hours ago by: Don Y Then how did you decide they were equivalent? Clearly, (at least) one had a different set of options/transitions that is not supported in the "merged" implementation. Are you using "node" as a synonym for "state"? E.g., State
Re: Text on FSM (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 12 Days 22 Hours ago by: George Neuner When you merge two FSM you often get redundant "don't care" nodes, but you also can get nodes which either are impossible to enter [dead code], or impossible to leave [halt], because there are no legal transitions that will permit it. Jo
Re: Text on FSM (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 13 Days 7 Hours ago by: Niklas Holsti In my experience, diagrams that describe all the details of the code, as would be required for generating the code from the diagram, are usually much too complex to comprehend easily ("visually"). They tend to be mazes where one can p
Re: Text on FSM (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 13 Days 8 Hours ago by: Don Y That depends on whether the diagram can express the issues that need to be expressed, concisely. nest_state := current_state + 1 sure is a lot more descriptive than wading through 99 discrete states that all seem to say the same thi
Re: Text on FSM (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 13 Days 9 Hours ago by: pozz A good diagram is always much more expressive than a good code, for developers and for non-developers. Hierarchical state-machines (UML state-machines) are fully qualified monsters. This is the reason why a fsm generation tool cou
Re: Text on FSM (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 13 Days 9 Hours ago by: pozz Yes, I know this tool and I like its philosopy. However I understood I can't use the generated code in closed source projects without a commercial license. I read your book ;-) Hierarchical state-machine is fundamental here to r
Re: Text on FSM (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 13 Days 18 Hours ago by: Don Y But, the FSM parallel would be an "orphan" state that would (likely) be readily apparent in a state diagram. "You can't get there from here". In hardware designs, it is not uncommon to have multiple equivalent states that aren't easil
Re: Text on FSM (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 13 Days 20 Hours ago by: George Neuner yacc and bison will remove unreachable PDA states. Unreachable states in the parser typically are not deliberate but rather result from ambiguities in the grammar. lex, being LALR(1), does not tolerate much ambiguity - however bison can
Re: Text on FSM (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 14 Days 1 Hour ago by: Don Y CUPL, PALASM, PLDshell, ABEL, etc. Yes, but tedious for things like event driven code (where the symbols in the alphabet are events). lex(1) most often used to aggregate things like <digit>s into <number> or <character>s into <token>/
Re: Text on FSM (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 14 Days 3 Hours ago by: Gerhard Hoffmann I learned state machines using the PLD compiler "CUPL" on a VAX11/750. That had a nice syntax for Mealy and Moore state machines and once I had understood that, I could also do it in PALASM or VHDL. Another useful tool is yacc from Unix
Re: Text on FSM (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 14 Days 7 Hours ago by: Don Y Of course. A 0..99 counter can have oodles of states... but the interactions between them are trivial to the point of being boring. Interconnectedness is the source of all complexity. E.g., the more modules your code interacts with,
Re: Text on FSM (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 14 Days 8 Hours ago by: StateMachineCOM - https://www.state-machine.com/qm Automatic Code Generation video: - https://youtu.be/FHV5vZyECOA QM is an example of a modern, lightweight modeling tool. Older, "high-ceremony" tools have been available since the '90, but they couldn
Re: Text on FSM (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 14 Days 8 Hours ago by: pozz I think the complexity of a FSM is not only related to the number if states, but also to the transitions/inputs. It's much simpler to detect errors on a diagram instead on a cryptic list of switch/case instructions. The great advantage
Re: Text on FSM (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 16 Days 10 Hours ago by: Don Y Old-school analogy: you'd no longer write a (detailed) flowchart to document a piece of code (before or after writing it). But, would likely sketch the "major flow" -- even if only on the back of a napkin -- to act as general guidance.
Re: Text on FSM (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 16 Days 11 Hours ago by: Don Y Long lost brother? <raises eyebrows> Tell me, do you, too, have that extra thumb on your left hand?? :> There are two issues potentially at play, here. One is "vanity/pride/overestimation of your abilities". The other is simply not
Re: Text on FSM (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 17 Days 2 Hours ago by: Ed Prochak We think a lot alike because we've both have done this a long time. On Friday, March 10, 2023 at 2:10:30 PM UTC-5, Don Y wrote: To your 1st sentence: AMEN. We don't really disagree here. To the rest: I've seen it too. Developers that wr
Re: Text on FSM (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 17 Days 2 Hours ago by: George Neuner If you really want the theory, you can take a look at Hopcroft and Ullman's "Intro To Automata Theory, Languages And Computation". It's available free as an ebook from https://archive.org/details/HopcroftUllman_cinderellabook/mode/2up
Re: Text on FSM (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 17 Days 2 Hours ago by: Ed Prochak Hi jmariano, You are clearly on the right path. FSM are useful in many situations. With a physics background you will get it soon. You can consider time as an input for synchronization. Or a messaging system. If you would like help on you
Re: Text on FSM (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 17 Days 4 Hours ago by: Don Y To be fair, I work with lots of different clients/projects so there's no "established" toolset that I can embrace. And I can't always coerce the client to purchase/adopt the tools that I've found effective. Hence the need to "understand
Re: Text on FSM (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 17 Days 4 Hours ago by: Don Y Remember, a microprocessor based system is a FSM. The "state" is the union of all of the bits of storage in the product. The "machine" transitions between states (i.e., alters some of those bits) based on opcodes and sensed/stored val
Re: Text on FSM (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 17 Days 4 Hours ago by: Rick C This is a very simple topic, that can be made as complicated as you wish. It would be good to work through an example of yours, but until you provide one, here's a traffic light. Assume there are separate timers and that inputs from se
Re: Text on FSM (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 17 Days 4 Hours ago by: Don Y You have to decide if the effort to learn (and remain "current") the tool offsets the advantages gained by using it. I see lots of developers who "almost" know how to use something. IMO, this is worse than not knowing hot to use it (o
Re: Text on FSM (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 17 Days 5 Hours ago by: Ed Prochak While you're last statement is true, I do not think it is a valid argument against adding another tool to the development process. In a work (not hobby) environment, I expect good management and teams to make considered choices about what
Re: Text on FSM (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 17 Days 6 Hours ago by: jmariano Hello again! Thank you all very much for your valuable inputs! I have A LOT of reading to do! I'm not a professional developer, like most of you (I guess). I'm just a "gizmo" builder, serving mainly my own research and my colleagues. I do
Re: Text on FSM (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 17 Days 7 Hours ago by: Don Y By way of example, what does this: ^0(1(00)10\|10(00)1(00)(11)0(00)10)0$ do over the set of binary integers? [assuming I haven't botched it! I should test it...]
Re: Text on FSM (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 17 Days 7 Hours ago by: Don Y You can use regex "compilers" to deal with DFAs. The problem with all of these approaches is they add another "tool" to the development process -- and another opportunity for the developer (who only uses the tool for a portion of a pro
Re: Text on FSM (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 17 Days 8 Hours ago by: StateMachineCOM This question is precisely what I've been exploring, working on, and writing about for decades. Unfortunately, like most terms in our discipline of embedded programming, the term FSM means different things to different people. That's why
Re: Text on FSM (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 17 Days 8 Hours ago by: Rick C The problem these have, like many graphic oriented approaches, is continuing support and version control of the source. I've never worked with a state machine that was so complex it required anything other than a diagram drawn up in your
Re: Text on FSM (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 17 Days 12 Hours ago by: Robert Roland When I went to school, 30 or so years ago, we did have such a program. I am not able to remember its name, though.
Re: Text on FSM (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 17 Days 12 Hours ago by: Don Y DFA have application besides handling "events". E.g., you can think of every character/octet in a message as an "event" (even though they all "appear" as a coherent unit) and use a DFA to parse the content for validity/meaning.
Re: Text on FSM (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 17 Days 13 Hours ago by: Don Y The problem I see with using state machines to control processes is that those processes. however trivial they may APPEAR to be, often have lots of exceptions that are inherent in their correct implementation. Representing these in the
Re: Text on FSM (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 17 Days 15 Hours ago by: pozz Search for Quantum Leaps. Miro Samek has written a very good book about state-machines for embedded systems with an implementation. However it isn't free of use, I think. But the book should be now free to download. Hierarchical state-
Re: Text on FSM (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 17 Days 15 Hours ago by: Bill Davy I went to a course of lectures on (and by) Harel state-charts. Here is one for text: https://github.com/cepsdev/machines4ceps There is also https://www.codeproject.com/Articles/11398/A-Lightweight-Implementation-of-UML-Statecharts-in
Re: Text on FSM (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 17 Days 21 Hours ago by: Don Y Implementations can vary widely. Do you want to present (current state, inputs) to a machine and have (next_state, outputs) emitted "immediately"? Or, is the processing time not critical (e.g., UI's tend to be this type) Do you want to
Re: Text on FSM (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 17 Days 23 Hours ago by: Rick C FSM are pretty simple. They usually use a directed graph (drawing with circles for states and arrows for transitions between states) to represent the design. It's always a good idea to start with that. Give the sames names, or values a
Text on FSM comp.arch.embedded Posted: 18 Days 1 Hour ago by: jmariano Hello Does anyone know of a nice text on finite state machines and their software implementation on embedded systems? I'm looking for some theoretical background and design methodology. A few examples of "C" implementation would be a nic
Re: Half-duplex RS485: simple auto-direction solution (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 20 Days 23 Hours ago by: Rick C You could use a simple interface device that drives the line low always, but only drives the line high, for say, 20% of a bit time. That will assure the solid rise time, then it will be off the bus before the end of the "1" bit. Such a
Re: Half-duplex RS485: simple auto-direction solution (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 21 Days 2 Hours ago by: Don Y Do you completely control everything that is connected to the device, including the wire? Are you sure someone won't opt to lengthen a cable, add another "extension" to your existing cable, etc.? There's a reason you actively want t
Re: Half-duplex RS485: simple auto-direction solution (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 21 Days 2 Hours ago by: pozz I'm using a Linux embedded module based on a MX6ULL that isn't capable of driving the direction in hw. There's a bit in one UART register that must be set/reset by software. I don't know any details (and I don't have knowledge to under
Re: Half-duplex RS485: simple auto-direction solution (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 21 Days 4 Hours ago by: Rick C You have not explained why you would want to go to this trouble. Are you concerned about multiple drivers on the bus at the same time doing damage??? I can't see any reason for complicating the bus in this way. You may think 38400 bps
Re: Half-duplex RS485: simple auto-direction solution (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 21 Days 12 Hours ago by: David Brown Yes, you certainly can do so - within limitations. Since the return to idle (logic 1) level is by terminating resistors, you don't have such clean edges and the rate is highly dependent on the bus load, capacitance, and termination re
Re: Half-duplex RS485: simple auto-direction solution (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 21 Days 14 Hours ago by: pozz CAN is a well-known and very reliable network. Does this mean I could use RS485 in "CAN bus driver" arrangement without critical problems?
Re: Half-duplex RS485: simple auto-direction solution (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 23 Days 13 Hours ago by: David Brown This arrangement is also known as a "CAN bus driver".
Re: Half-duplex RS485: simple auto-direction solution (thread) comp.arch.embedded Posted: 24 Days 7 Hours ago by: Richard Damon Yes, that trick "works" to the level that you can use an "open collector" signal with a pull up to act like a normal driven signal. The 0 to 1 transition is weak and the 1 is typically not full strength, so noise immunity is compromise
Half-duplex RS485: simple auto-direction solution comp.arch.embedded Posted: 24 Days 7 Hours ago by: pozz I think you already know this trick: connect DE/RE signals of RS485 half-duplex transceiver to TX negated signal from UART and connect TX input of transceiver to GND. If the bus is not driven by anyone, A signal goes high and B signal

Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread)

comp.arch.embedded

Posted: 30 Minutes ago by: Clifford Heath

I long ago gave up trying to answer Ricky, though my resolve sometimes stumbles. He has a kind of willful incomprehension that prevents him from receiving input, either on technical subjects or about his own incapacities... even the ex

Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread)

comp.arch.embedded

Posted: 49 Minutes ago by: b...@gmx.com

[snip] Don't want to disturb your argument, but: If it has a male connector, it's most likely DTE wired, if it has a female one, it's most likely DCE wired. There's a ~3% chance that this guess is wrong, but whoever designs comms equip

Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread)

comp.arch.embedded

Posted: 1 Hour 24 Minutes ago by: Don Y

Enough to have retired, comfortably, more than 10 years ago! How long you planning on slogging away at it?

Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread)

comp.arch.embedded

Posted: 1 Hour 26 Minutes ago by: Don Y

Ah, so now we know -- you're just here to waste our time. I'm so glad you admitted that! I'm sure people will keep that in mind as they consider whether or not to answer future questions that you pose!

Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread)

comp.arch.embedded

Posted: 1 Hour 28 Minutes ago by: Don Y

Yes, learning that your questions are of little substance -- easily dismissable. Wonder what others will think of your FUTURE questions?

Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread)

comp.arch.embedded

Posted: 1 Hour 29 Minutes ago by: Rick C

Yeah, you are good at your job I guess. Does it pay much?

Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread)

comp.arch.embedded

Posted: 1 Hour 30 Minutes ago by: Don Y

I'm enjoying showing others your silliness. I seem to be doing a pretty good job at it!

Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread)

comp.arch.embedded

Posted: 1 Hour 41 Minutes ago by: Rick C

Indeed. I think you are learning... rather slowly, but learning nonetheless.

Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread)

comp.arch.embedded

Posted: 1 Hour 42 Minutes ago by: Rick C

You continue to not understand the application, yet you feel qualified to recommend solutions. Yes, you are very much the sort of consultant that gives the group as a whole, a bad name. I can't waste your time. That is entirely up t

Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread)

comp.arch.embedded

Posted: 1 Hour 58 Minutes ago by: Don Y

Blue. No, maybe a light shade of violet.

Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread)

comp.arch.embedded

Posted: 1 Hour 59 Minutes ago by: Rick C

It's best not to follow in Don's footsteps. Do you really think nothing has happened in regards to this? Do you think I've been twiddling my thumbs? I barely have time to think about this effort, and nearly none to do it. But it's loo

Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread)

comp.arch.embedded

Posted: 1 Hour 59 Minutes ago by: Don Y

As I said elsewhere this thread: "some people are slow learners". <rolls eyes>

Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread)

comp.arch.embedded

Posted: 1 Hour 59 Minutes ago by: Don Y

"Multi-million dollar job". And you're dicking around with nickels and dimes? Buy 20 BRAND SPANKING NEW pc's and be done with it! Wow, what a great businessman -- not! I'd hate to see you waste it -- as you have, ours!

Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread)

comp.arch.embedded

Posted: 2 Hours 1 Minute ago by: Rick C

What is the power supply voltage?

Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread)

comp.arch.embedded

Posted: 2 Hours 1 Minute ago by: Rick C

I don't expect anything from you, and so far, you have not disappointed. What board? The one with insufficient information? No, but you still fail to understand that I never expected an answer to the question. It was a question tha

Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread)

comp.arch.embedded

Posted: 2 Hours 16 Minutes ago by: Rick C

Some people think small. I'm currently negotiating a multi-million dollar job. This design is actually for my brother who needs a gadget and so far, has not been able to find anyone to help him. There are a few people who have contacte

Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread)

comp.arch.embedded

Posted: 3 Hours 20 Minutes ago by: Jim Jackson

That was my thought wwwwaaaayyyy back!

Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread)

comp.arch.embedded

Posted: 3 Hours 28 Minutes ago by: Don Y

Says a guy who spawned a 2.5 month long thread OVER A PINOUT! Wow! I wonder how long the thread will be about power supply voltages...

Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread)

comp.arch.embedded

Posted: 3 Hours 49 Minutes ago by: Don Y

-------^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\ Ah, so you're not an engineer. Not a technician. Comedian?? And my answer fits that dfescription. Here, Master Rick. Please, in clear English sentences of no more than 3 syllables, explain what you

Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread)

comp.arch.embedded

Posted: 3 Hours 58 Minutes ago by: Don Y

Wow, had you put this much effort into YOUR problem, you could have put a SoC on a board and written the page of code it would take to suit your problem. The BALANCE of the time, you could have ASSEMBLED the boards into boxes! It's now

Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread)

comp.arch.embedded

Posted: 4 Hours 3 Minutes ago by: Rick C

You still don't get it. In the post you replied to, there was a board referenced. It even gave the same general info YOU provided in response, about TXD, RXD, DTE and DCE. BUT IT DIDN'T SAY DIDDLY ABOUT WHICH PIN WAS INPUT AND WHICH WA

Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread)

comp.arch.embedded

Posted: 4 Hours 50 Minutes ago by: Don Y

I gave the only answer that anyone COULD give to your silly question. Were you hoping someone here was USING the exact same board AND had explored that issue in enough detail to yield a pin number? Instead of just "Gee, I dunno. It work

Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread)

comp.arch.embedded

Posted: 6 Hours 48 Minutes ago by: Rick C

In case anyone is interested, I think I've found a good board level solution. Arduino Mega coupled to this board to provide RS-232. https://leemangeophysical.com/product/rs-232-arduino-mega-xbee-data-shield/ It has no DB9 connectors,

Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread)

comp.arch.embedded

Posted: 6 Hours 57 Minutes ago by: Rick C

Exactly. You gave a dissertation to answer a question that has not been asked. The worst part is, you can't understand why your answer is not relevant. That's because you are doing a great job of talking, but a crap job of listening.

Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread)

comp.arch.embedded

Posted: 7 Hours 10 Minutes ago by: Rick C

No, you can't. You completely fail to understand what is going on with this issue. What does YOUR box have to do with my project? You are projecting your imaginings, onto a conversation that is very different from what you are talki

Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread)

comp.arch.embedded

Posted: 7 Hours 45 Minutes ago by: Don Y

You still fail to see how this applies to "determining which pin is the output". Wow, can a person get any denser? Hey, rick, I've got a box here. It's got a DB25 connector on it. Is it for a printer? Serial port? SCSI interface? I'

Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread)

comp.arch.embedded

Posted: 7 Hours 48 Minutes ago by: Don Y

I suspect it is you who don't understand what you're saying. "Or better yet, just answer the question asked, on this device, which pin on the DB9 connector is the data output and which is the data input?" I gave you a very deliberate a

Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread)

comp.arch.embedded

Posted: 7 Hours 57 Minutes ago by: Dimiter_Popoff

Because I do read the group and your lame whining is a bit excessive. Notice I kept silent before you got into abuse/whine mode. You have been a whiner ever since I know you on Usenet, decades by now. So I am not asking you to disappear,

Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread)

comp.arch.embedded

Posted: 8 Hours 28 Minutes ago by: David Brown

I suspect you have been in s.e.d. too long, and other groups too little. (To be fair, there's not a lot of traffic in many of the technical groups.) You are a polite and respectful poster by s.e.d. standards, but not by the standard

Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread)

comp.arch.embedded

Posted: 9 Hours 1 Minute ago by: Rick C

No, YOU stop it! Why do you feel you needed to post any of this? Why are you whining?

Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread)

comp.arch.embedded

Posted: 9 Hours 19 Minutes ago by: Dimiter_Popoff

Oh stop it Rick. Your initial question - about board availability - was valid, you must have googled, not found anything and asked here; so far so good. Then you started talking about signal polarities, RS-232 standards etc., things most

Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread)

comp.arch.embedded

Posted: 9 Hours 55 Minutes ago by: Rick C

Correct, but it is not appropriate to hijack a thread. Doing that turns every group into s.e.d. Correct that I don't own the group or the thread. I'm simply pointing out that in contrast to convention and courteous behavior, Don is

Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread)

comp.arch.embedded

Posted: 10 Hours 1 Minute ago by: Rick C

Don, you very clearly have no understanding of the posts I have made. Please don't bother to reply until you do. Thank you,

Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread)

comp.arch.embedded

Posted: 10 Hours 2 Minutes ago by: Rick C

You are off topic in this thread. Why not start your own thread, rather than polluting this one?

Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread)

comp.arch.embedded

Posted: 14 Hours 39 Minutes ago by: Don Y

Some folks are slow to learn... No, BREAK detection! :> (Check your mail.)

Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread)

comp.arch.embedded

Posted: 15 Hours 3 Minutes ago by: David Brown

Rick, why are /you/ here? You have been on Usenet for decades, but still seem to struggle with the basics. A group like this is a discussion group. It is not your personal support channel. You do not have any rights to the group, o

Re: Text on FSM (thread)

comp.arch.embedded

Posted: 15 Hours 50 Minutes ago by: Don Y

I agree, and disagree. Where do you draw the line between disciplines? With hardware, you're exposed to lots of tools for logic reduction, etc. You learn about hazzards, races, etc. These aren't mentioned in software contexts -- but s

Re: Text on FSM (thread)

comp.arch.embedded

Posted: 17 Hours 34 Minutes ago by: George Neuner

This I think is a teaching failure. Before we go on here we have to clarify a possible terminology trap: "deterministic" vs "non-deterministic". In the context of FA, "deterministic" means that the machine can be only in one state at

Re: Text on FSM (thread)

comp.arch.embedded

Posted: 18 Hours 48 Minutes ago by: Clifford Heath

The stack means it's not a FA. Yacc and bison exist for the sole purpose of processing LALR2 grammars that cannot be processed with an FA. Also because the grammars are LALR, the stack is a bottom-up stack, so it doesn't resemble anyt

Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread)

comp.arch.embedded

Posted: 20 Hours 35 Minutes ago by: Don Y

No, YOU haven't. I twice made the statements about the standard. You didn't get the hint. Instead, you assumed I would engage you in a pointless discussion about what the pinout *could* be. In plain english: THERE IS NOTHING ANYONE HE

Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread)

comp.arch.embedded

Posted: 20 Hours 35 Minutes ago by: Don Y

To show that if you buy something (or, in my case, RESCUE something with *no* markings at all on it) for a KNOWN MARKET, then you can *infer* how a responsible design would pin the connectors. I rescued this item. I had no idea what sor

Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread)

comp.arch.embedded

Posted: 21 Hours 36 Minutes ago by: Rick C

Wow! He's gone from making overly verbose posts with far more description than needed, to making replies to himself, neither of which are needed. Don, why are you here? Why are you posting in this thread? You have gone completely of

Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread)

comp.arch.embedded

Posted: 21 Hours 38 Minutes ago by: Rick C

You seem to have gone off the weird end. I wish GG had a kill file feature.. At least you managed to post without overflowing everyone's input buffers. You seem to have a penchant for using 100 words, when 20 will do. Thanks for keep

Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread)

comp.arch.embedded

Posted: 21 Hours 41 Minutes ago by: Rick C

The comedy here, is that both of you think I was saying anything about RS-232 being useful here, as other than a voltage level standard. I expect that of you. I don't know George so well. I was playing the game, where questions are as

Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread)

comp.arch.embedded

Posted: 21 Hours 44 Minutes ago by: Rick C

And there is the problem. The RS-232 standard defines the interface between data terminal equipment and data communication equipment, at the data communication equipment interface. It says nothing about anything else. However, people u

Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread)

comp.arch.embedded

Posted: 21 Hours 55 Minutes ago by: Rick C

Fortunately, this effort only uses TX and GND on one port and RX and GND on the other port. I don't care what the TX and RX pins are called, one is input, the other output and we just need to connect the input to the device that is sendi

Re: Boxed MCU with RS-232 Port (thread)

comp.arch.embedded