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devel / comp.lang.forth / Re: EuroForth 2023 Call for Papers and Participation

SubjectAuthor
* EuroForth 2023 Call for Papers and ParticipationAnton Ertl
+* Re: EuroForth 2023 Call for Papers and ParticipationJurgen Pitaske
|`* Re: EuroForth 2023 Call for Papers and ParticipationJKN
| `* Re: EuroForth 2023 Call for Papers and ParticipationJurgen Pitaske
|  `* Re: EuroForth 2023 Call for Papers and ParticipationAnton Ertl
|   `- Re: EuroForth 2023 Call for Papers and ParticipationJurgen Pitaske
+- Re: EuroForth 2023 Call for Papers and ParticipationAnton Ertl
+* Re: EuroForth 2023 Call for Papers and ParticipationHugh Aguilar
|+- Re: EuroForth 2023 Call for Papers and Participationdxforth
|`- Re: EuroForth 2023 Call for Papers and ParticipationJurgen Pitaske
`* Re: EuroForth 2023 Call for Papers and ParticipationHugh Aguilar
 `* Re: EuroForth 2023 Call for Papers and ParticipationStephen Pelc
  +* Re: EuroForth 2023 Call for Papers and ParticipationJurgen Pitaske
  |`- Re: EuroForth 2023 Call for Papers and Participationminforth
  `* Re: EuroForth 2023 Call for Papers and ParticipationHugh Aguilar
   `- Re: EuroForth 2023 Call for Papers and ParticipationJurgen Pitaske

1
EuroForth 2023 Call for Papers and Participation

<2023Jun22.175055@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at>

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From: ant...@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: EuroForth 2023 Call for Papers and Participation
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2023 15:50:55 GMT
Organization: Institut fuer Computersprachen, Technische Universitaet Wien
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 by: Anton Ertl - Thu, 22 Jun 2023 15:50 UTC

EuroForth 2023 will be held on September 15-17 online or in Rome,
Italy. It will be preceded by the Forth200x meeting on September
13-15.

The deadline for the academic stream (refereed) papers is July 10. So
now is the time to write up your research. For industrial
(non-refereed) papers the deadline is September 4.

The call for papers including submission instructions can be found on
<http://www.euroforth.org/ef23/cfp.html>. The conference home page
is <https://euro.theforth.net/2023>, and registration is open.

All dates known up to now:

June 22: Registration opens
July 10 (end of day, anywhere on earth):
Deadline for draft papers (academic stream)
August 7: Notification of acceptance of academic stream papers
September 4 (end of day, anywhere on Earth):
Deadline for camera-ready paper submission
September 13-15: Forth200x meeting
September 15-17: EuroForth 2023 conference
September 26 (end of day, anywhere on Earth):
Deadline for papers and presentation slides for
post-conference proceedings.

- anton
--
M. Anton Ertl http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
New standard: https://forth-standard.org/
EuroForth 2023: https://euro.theforth.net/2023

Re: EuroForth 2023 Call for Papers and Participation

<2afecb10-c3df-46fb-9482-fa3ed5ebb29en@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: EuroForth 2023 Call for Papers and Participation
From: jpita...@gmail.com (Jurgen Pitaske)
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 by: Jurgen Pitaske - Thu, 22 Jun 2023 16:52 UTC

On Thursday, 22 June 2023 at 16:52:52 UTC+1, Anton Ertl wrote:
> EuroForth 2023 will be held on September 15-17 online or in Rome,
> Italy. It will be preceded by the Forth200x meeting on September
> 13-15.
>
> The deadline for the academic stream (refereed) papers is July 10. So
> now is the time to write up your research. For industrial
> (non-refereed) papers the deadline is September 4.
>
> The call for papers including submission instructions can be found on
> <http://www.euroforth.org/ef23/cfp.html>. The conference home page
> is <https://euro.theforth.net/2023 ," rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://euro.theforth.net/2023>, and registration is open.
>
> All dates known up to now:
>
> June 22: Registration opens
> July 10 (end of day, anywhere on earth):
> Deadline for draft papers (academic stream)
> August 7: Notification of acceptance of academic stream papers
> September 4 (end of day, anywhere on Earth):
> Deadline for camera-ready paper submission
> September 13-15: Forth200x meeting
> September 15-17: EuroForth 2023 conference
> September 26 (end of day, anywhere on Earth):
> Deadline for papers and presentation slides for
> post-conference proceedings.
>
> - anton
> --
> M. Anton Ertl http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
> comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
> New standard: https://forth-standard.org/
> EuroForth 2023: https://euro.theforth.net/2023

What is the difference between the announcement of Stephen Pelc, MPE earlier and yours now?

Re: EuroForth 2023 Call for Papers and Participation

<2023Jun24.110116@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at>

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From: ant...@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: Re: EuroForth 2023 Call for Papers and Participation
Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2023 09:01:16 GMT
Organization: Institut fuer Computersprachen, Technische Universitaet Wien
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 by: Anton Ertl - Sat, 24 Jun 2023 09:01 UTC

anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) writes:
>EuroForth 2023 will be held on September 15-17 online or in Rome,
>Italy.

Correction: It will be held in Rome, in person.

It will be preceded by the Forth200x meeting on September
>13-15.
>
>The deadline for the academic stream (refereed) papers is July 10. So
>now is the time to write up your research. For industrial
>(non-refereed) papers the deadline is September 4.
>
>The call for papers including submission instructions can be found on
><http://www.euroforth.org/ef23/cfp.html>. The conference home page
>is <https://euro.theforth.net/2023>, and registration is open.
>
>All dates known up to now:
>
> June 22: Registration opens
> July 10 (end of day, anywhere on earth):
> Deadline for draft papers (academic stream)
> August 7: Notification of acceptance of academic stream papers
>September 4 (end of day, anywhere on Earth):
> Deadline for camera-ready paper submission
>September 13-15: Forth200x meeting
>September 15-17: EuroForth 2023 conference
>September 26 (end of day, anywhere on Earth):
> Deadline for papers and presentation slides for
> post-conference proceedings.

- anton
--
M. Anton Ertl http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
New standard: https://forth-standard.org/
EuroForth 2023: https://euro.theforth.net/2023

Re: EuroForth 2023 Call for Papers and Participation

<93700b6f-d10d-46f2-9fc5-7afd916ef4dbn@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: EuroForth 2023 Call for Papers and Participation
From: jkn...@nicorp.f9.co.uk (JKN)
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 by: JKN - Sat, 24 Jun 2023 22:39 UTC

On Thursday, June 22, 2023 at 5:52:10 PM UTC+1, Jurgen Pitaske wrote:
> On Thursday, 22 June 2023 at 16:52:52 UTC+1, Anton Ertl wrote:
> > EuroForth 2023 will be held on September 15-17 online or in Rome,
> > Italy. It will be preceded by the Forth200x meeting on September
> > 13-15.
> >
> > The deadline for the academic stream (refereed) papers is July 10. So
> > now is the time to write up your research. For industrial
> > (non-refereed) papers the deadline is September 4.
> >
> > The call for papers including submission instructions can be found on
> > <http://www.euroforth.org/ef23/cfp.html>. The conference home page
> > is <https://euro.theforth.net/2023 ," rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://euro.theforth.net/2023>, and registration is open.
> >
> > All dates known up to now:
> >
> > June 22: Registration opens
> > July 10 (end of day, anywhere on earth):
> > Deadline for draft papers (academic stream)
> > August 7: Notification of acceptance of academic stream papers
> > September 4 (end of day, anywhere on Earth):
> > Deadline for camera-ready paper submission
> > September 13-15: Forth200x meeting
> > September 15-17: EuroForth 2023 conference
> > September 26 (end of day, anywhere on Earth):
> > Deadline for papers and presentation slides for
> > post-conference proceedings.
> >
> > - anton
> > --
> > M. Anton Ertl http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
> > comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
> > New standard: https://forth-standard.org/
> > EuroForth 2023: https://euro.theforth.net/2023
> What is the difference between the announcement of Stephen Pelc, MPE earlier and yours now?

Given that Anton's is the name, and email address, on the CFP page,
err, perhaps one is more 'official' than the other?

Nothing to stop you making an announcement posting about
the conference yourself...

Re: EuroForth 2023 Call for Papers and Participation

<3dea0e0f-6829-4f08-86e5-4a44df974e71n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: EuroForth 2023 Call for Papers and Participation
From: jpita...@gmail.com (Jurgen Pitaske)
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 by: Jurgen Pitaske - Sun, 25 Jun 2023 08:00 UTC

On Saturday, 24 June 2023 at 23:39:11 UTC+1, JKN wrote:
> On Thursday, June 22, 2023 at 5:52:10 PM UTC+1, Jurgen Pitaske wrote:
> > On Thursday, 22 June 2023 at 16:52:52 UTC+1, Anton Ertl wrote:
> > > EuroForth 2023 will be held on September 15-17 online or in Rome,
> > > Italy. It will be preceded by the Forth200x meeting on September
> > > 13-15.
> > >
> > > The deadline for the academic stream (refereed) papers is July 10. So
> > > now is the time to write up your research. For industrial
> > > (non-refereed) papers the deadline is September 4.
> > >
> > > The call for papers including submission instructions can be found on
> > > <http://www.euroforth.org/ef23/cfp.html>. The conference home page
> > > is <https://euro.theforth.net/2023 ," rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://euro.theforth.net/2023>, and registration is open.
> > >
> > > All dates known up to now:
> > >
> > > June 22: Registration opens
> > > July 10 (end of day, anywhere on earth):
> > > Deadline for draft papers (academic stream)
> > > August 7: Notification of acceptance of academic stream papers
> > > September 4 (end of day, anywhere on Earth):
> > > Deadline for camera-ready paper submission
> > > September 13-15: Forth200x meeting
> > > September 15-17: EuroForth 2023 conference
> > > September 26 (end of day, anywhere on Earth):
> > > Deadline for papers and presentation slides for
> > > post-conference proceedings.
> > >
> > > - anton
> > > --
> > > M. Anton Ertl http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
> > > comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
> > > New standard: https://forth-standard.org/
> > > EuroForth 2023: https://euro.theforth.net/2023
> > What is the difference between the announcement of Stephen Pelc, MPE earlier and yours now?
> Given that Anton's is the name, and email address, on the CFP page,
> err, perhaps one is more 'official' than the other?
>
> Nothing to stop you making an announcement posting about
> the conference yourself...

We all can do announcements,
but the official one with the links and details
normally comes from Anton
who seems to kindly invest quite a bit of his time for the organisation of this event.

Re: EuroForth 2023 Call for Papers and Participation

<2023Jun25.174717@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at>

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From: ant...@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: Re: EuroForth 2023 Call for Papers and Participation
Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2023 15:47:17 GMT
Organization: Institut fuer Computersprachen, Technische Universitaet Wien
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 by: Anton Ertl - Sun, 25 Jun 2023 15:47 UTC

Jurgen Pitaske <jpitaske@gmail.com> writes:
>Anton=20
>who seems to kindly invest quite a bit of his time for the organisation of =
>this event.

EuroForth 2023 is organized by Gerald Wodni. I organize the programm
committe, and the proceedings. Therefore the main point of my posting
was to get the paper deadlines to potential authors.

- anton
--
M. Anton Ertl http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
New standard: https://forth-standard.org/
EuroForth 2023: https://euro.theforth.net/2023

Re: EuroForth 2023 Call for Papers and Participation

<5577b2e7-7ae1-4cb9-8ca2-3c175279b310n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: EuroForth 2023 Call for Papers and Participation
From: jpita...@gmail.com (Jurgen Pitaske)
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 by: Jurgen Pitaske - Sun, 25 Jun 2023 18:05 UTC

On Sunday, 25 June 2023 at 16:50:26 UTC+1, Anton Ertl wrote:
> Jurgen Pitaske <jpit...@gmail.com> writes:
> >Anton=20
> >who seems to kindly invest quite a bit of his time for the organisation of =
> >this event.
>
> EuroForth 2023 is organized by Gerald Wodni. I organize the programm
> committe, and the proceedings. Therefore the main point of my posting
> was to get the paper deadlines to potential authors.
> - anton
> --
> M. Anton Ertl http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
> comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
> New standard: https://forth-standard.org/
> EuroForth 2023: https://euro.theforth.net/2023

I have been through this for the last 10 years probably.
I do appreciate all of the work the people invoved do.
iT IS JUST UNFORTUNATE THAT RON IS EXCLUDED BASED ON THE PLANNING.
tHIS IS ALL i WANTED TO SAY.

Re: EuroForth 2023 Call for Papers and Participation

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 by: Hugh Aguilar - Tue, 27 Jun 2023 00:14 UTC

On Thursday, June 22, 2023 at 8:52:52 AM UTC-7, Anton Ertl wrote:
> EuroForth 2023 will be held on September 15-17 online or in Rome,
> Italy. It will be preceded by the Forth200x meeting on September
> 13-15.
>
> The deadline for the academic stream (refereed) papers is July 10. So
> now is the time to write up your research. For industrial
> (non-refereed) papers the deadline is September 4.
>
> The call for papers including submission instructions can be found on
> <http://www.euroforth.org/ef23/cfp.html>. The conference home page
> is <https://euro.theforth.net/2023 ," rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://euro.theforth.net/2023>, and registration is open.
>
> All dates known up to now:
>
> June 22: Registration opens
> July 10 (end of day, anywhere on earth):
> Deadline for draft papers (academic stream)
> August 7: Notification of acceptance of academic stream papers
> September 4 (end of day, anywhere on Earth):
> Deadline for camera-ready paper submission
> September 13-15: Forth200x meeting
> September 15-17: EuroForth 2023 conference
> September 26 (end of day, anywhere on Earth):
> Deadline for papers and presentation slides for
> post-conference proceedings.
>
> - anton
> --
> M. Anton Ertl http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
> comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
> New standard: https://forth-standard.org/
> EuroForth 2023: https://euro.theforth.net/2023

This is what I said previously:

On Thursday, June 13, 2019 at 6:33:42 AM UTC-7, hughag...@gmail.com wrote:
> If anybody in the real world is going to take EuroForth seriously,
> the following rules need to be made and enforced:
>
> 1.) No paper will be accepted if there is no proof-of-concept
> code accompanying it. If the author is too incompetent to write
> code that works, then his or her paper is not acceptable.
> Vague speculation about what might work does not constitute design.
>
> 2.) No paper will be accepted if it is just an attack piece that
> denounces existing code. This is not a positive contribution.
> EuroForth should be a forum for presenting new designs, not attacking
> other people's designs and code libraries.
>
> At this time, because these rules are not in place, and most papers
> would not be in compliance with these rules, EuroForth lacks
> credibility in the real world. So far, what I have seen is that
> the worst violators of these rules are Forth-200x committee members.
> They are just dumb and mean --- they are not making a positive
> contribution to Forth --- they have a political axe to grind.
> Note that Anton Ertl is the referee for the "academic" papers,
> yet he writes papers himself that grossly violate the above rules.

Several years have past and nobody at EuroForth has ever succeeded
in writing a paper that adhered to the two rules I listed above.
EuroForth is a negative contributor to Forth because EuroForth makes
the entire Forth community appear to be dumb and mean. You're failures!

Re: EuroForth 2023 Call for Papers and Participation

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 by: dxforth - Tue, 27 Jun 2023 06:21 UTC

On 27/06/2023 10:14 am, Hugh Aguilar wrote:
>
> EuroForth is a negative contributor to Forth because EuroForth makes
> the entire Forth community appear to be dumb and mean. You're failures!

By that measure withdrawing your Novice pack was a negative contribution.
Putting your own feelings above the well-being of 'the entire Forth community'

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Subject: Re: EuroForth 2023 Call for Papers and Participation
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 by: Jurgen Pitaske - Tue, 27 Jun 2023 07:55 UTC

On Tuesday, 27 June 2023 at 01:14:31 UTC+1, Hugh Aguilar wrote:
> On Thursday, June 22, 2023 at 8:52:52 AM UTC-7, Anton Ertl wrote:
> > EuroForth 2023 will be held on September 15-17 online or in Rome,
> > Italy. It will be preceded by the Forth200x meeting on September
> > 13-15.
> >
> > The deadline for the academic stream (refereed) papers is July 10. So
> > now is the time to write up your research. For industrial
> > (non-refereed) papers the deadline is September 4.
> >
> > The call for papers including submission instructions can be found on
> > <http://www.euroforth.org/ef23/cfp.html>. The conference home page
> > is <https://euro.theforth.net/2023 ," rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://euro.theforth.net/2023>, and registration is open.
> >
> > All dates known up to now:
> >
> > June 22: Registration opens
> > July 10 (end of day, anywhere on earth):
> > Deadline for draft papers (academic stream)
> > August 7: Notification of acceptance of academic stream papers
> > September 4 (end of day, anywhere on Earth):
> > Deadline for camera-ready paper submission
> > September 13-15: Forth200x meeting
> > September 15-17: EuroForth 2023 conference
> > September 26 (end of day, anywhere on Earth):
> > Deadline for papers and presentation slides for
> > post-conference proceedings.
> >
> > - anton
> > --
> > M. Anton Ertl http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
> > comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
> > New standard: https://forth-standard.org/
> > EuroForth 2023: https://euro.theforth.net/2023
> This is what I said previously:
>
> On Thursday, June 13, 2019 at 6:33:42 AM UTC-7, hughag...@gmail.com wrote:
> > If anybody in the real world is going to take EuroForth seriously,
> > the following rules need to be made and enforced:
> >
> > 1.) No paper will be accepted if there is no proof-of-concept
> > code accompanying it. If the author is too incompetent to write
> > code that works, then his or her paper is not acceptable.
> > Vague speculation about what might work does not constitute design.
> >
> > 2.) No paper will be accepted if it is just an attack piece that
> > denounces existing code. This is not a positive contribution.
> > EuroForth should be a forum for presenting new designs, not attacking
> > other people's designs and code libraries.
> >
> > At this time, because these rules are not in place, and most papers
> > would not be in compliance with these rules, EuroForth lacks
> > credibility in the real world. So far, what I have seen is that
> > the worst violators of these rules are Forth-200x committee members.
> > They are just dumb and mean --- they are not making a positive
> > contribution to Forth --- they have a political axe to grind.
> > Note that Anton Ertl is the referee for the "academic" papers,
> > yet he writes papers himself that grossly violate the above rules.
>
> Several years have past and nobody at EuroForth has ever succeeded
> in writing a paper that adhered to the two rules I listed above.
> EuroForth is a negative contributor to Forth because EuroForth makes
> the entire Forth community appear to be dumb and mean. You're failures!

Having a mental fit again? I am so sorry.
But you do not set the rules for Euroforth yet.

Start your own.
As you know everything better,
wow, this will then be the most successful Forth community probably.

Re: EuroForth 2023 Call for Papers and Participation

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 by: Hugh Aguilar - Wed, 28 Jun 2023 22:49 UTC

On Thursday, June 22, 2023 at 8:52:52 AM UTC-7, Anton Ertl wrote:
> The deadline for the academic stream (refereed) papers is July 10. So
> now is the time to write up your research.

So far, the only EuroForth attempt ever made at implementing a
general-purpose data-structure was done by Peter Knaggs.
He failed badly at implementing a linked-list, as I pointed out:
https://groups.google.com/g/comp.lang.forth/c/cMa8wV3OiY0/m/INBDVBh0BgAJ

I challenge the Forth-200x committee to implement a linked-list!
You are going to have to ignore Peter Knaggs because he doesn't know the
difference between a list and an array, or know what inheritance is, or really know
anything about computer programming. It is possible though, that if the entire
Forth-200x committee work together on this, they may be able to succeed at
implementing a linked-list. Maybe not though, considering that they have
been failing at this since the 1970s. Neither VFX nor SwiftForth provide any
general--purpose data-structure --- not even a linked-list, which is pretty easy.

Don't just copy my code from the novice-package --- that would be cheating!
Now is the time to do some "research" on the subject of linked-lists! lol

Re: EuroForth 2023 Call for Papers and Participation

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 by: Stephen Pelc - Thu, 29 Jun 2023 09:29 UTC

On 29 Jun 2023 at 00:49:41 CEST, "Hugh Aguilar" <hughaguilar96@gmail.com>
wrote:

<rant rant rant>

> Don't just copy my code from the novice-package --- that would be cheating!
> Now is the time to do some "research" on the subject of linked-lists! lol

Well, where is this wonder code? A few weeks ago you ignored your own BSD
licence claim and begged us not to use it. Please provide us with the
'official'
distribution of the novice package. You could even document the change
history.

Stephen

P.S. I just could not resist.
--
Stephen Pelc, stephen@vfxforth.com
MicroProcessor Engineering, Ltd. - More Real, Less Time
133 Hill Lane, Southampton SO15 5AF, England
tel: +44 (0)23 8063 1441, +44 (0)78 0390 3612,
+34 649 662 974
http://www.mpeforth.com - free VFX Forth downloads

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 by: Jurgen Pitaske - Thu, 29 Jun 2023 12:57 UTC

On Thursday, 29 June 2023 at 10:29:56 UTC+1, Stephen Pelc wrote:
> On 29 Jun 2023 at 00:49:41 CEST, "Hugh Aguilar" <hughag...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> <rant rant rant>
> > Don't just copy my code from the novice-package --- that would be cheating!
> > Now is the time to do some "research" on the subject of linked-lists! lol
> Well, where is this wonder code? A few weeks ago you ignored your own BSD
> licence claim and begged us not to use it. Please provide us with the
> 'official'
> distribution of the novice package. You could even document the change
> history.
>
> Stephen
>
> P.S. I just could not resist.
> --
> Stephen Pelc, ste...@vfxforth.com
> MicroProcessor Engineering, Ltd. - More Real, Less Time
> 133 Hill Lane, Southampton SO15 5AF, England
> tel: +44 (0)23 8063 1441, +44 (0)78 0390 3612,
> +34 649 662 974
> http://www.mpeforth.com - free VFX Forth downloads

Just googled it. And downloaded it just to see if the 100k zip is still there.
https://www.forth2020.org/beginners-to-forth/a-novice-package

And there is states:

Novice Package by Hugh Aguilar
with grateful to Hugh Aguilar and SVFIG !

Novice Forth

10/15/2010

I have written some ANS-Forth code that I have put in the public-domain (BSD license) as a contribution to the Forth community. Most people who get interested in Forth will write a Forth compiler as an exercise in assembly-language, but they never write any applications in Forth. By comparison, my novice package is oriented toward writing applications. I also provide some small to medium-sized example applications to prove to the novice that writing non-trivial programs in Forth is possible. The novice may wish to upgrade these demos as an exercise, or at least study them to see how applications are written.

The novice package includes the following (and more):

NOVICE.4TH --- This file is required by most of the other files. Here we have simple data structures such as records and arrays. I have fixed a lot of problems in ANS-Forth, such as there being no way to determine if a memory block came from ALLOCATE or ALLOT, or what the size of the memory block is.. I have dispensed with CREATE DOES> altogether, and use :NAME instead. This is another example of fixing a problem in ANS-Forth --- making :NAME available is the primary purpose of my releasing this software.

LIST.4TH --- This file contains a linked-list data-structure. Lists can be used in much the same was as sequences are used in Factor. This file also contains lists of strings (SEQ lists) and comma-delimited strings (DECOMMA lists) that are useful in many applications. All in all, the list code is the most practical of all the code that I have written. My slide-rule program is a good example of using lists as the basic data-structure for the entire program.

ASSOCIATION.4TH --- This file contains code for associative arrays. It uses Left-Leaning Red-Black (LLRB) trees internally. In addition to FIND-KEY, INSERT and DELETE, I also have code for extracting nodes inside or outside of a range. I prefer lists, but a lot of people (Awk and Lua programmers, for example), use associative arrays as their primary data-structure. This is not a bad way to program, and my code will help you do so in Forth.

CF.4TH --- This file contains Nathaniel Grosman's continued-fraction program (Long Divisors and Short Fractions (Forth Dimensions Sept/Oct 1984)). The purpose of this program is to calculate rational approximations for use by */ or M*/ to multiply that rational by an input parameter. This is the only major example of code included in the novice package that I didn't write myself.

RATIO.4TH --- This file contains code based on LIST.4TH supporting lists of rational numbers. These can provide better accuracy than floating-point numbers for repeating decimals.

QUEENS.4TH --- This file contains code to solve the famous N-Queens problem.. I use a non-recursive backtracking algorithm of my own design. This is the only non-trivial program I have in the package that is *not* recursive, which is somewhat ironic as the N-Queens problem is typically given to novices as a classic example of recursion.

SYMTAB.4TH --- This file contains a symbol table. The algorithm is my own invention. If you have a lot of memory (modern desktop computers do), then a hash table is a better choice. Given limited memory, such as for an MS-DOS computer (one 64K segment for the headers), then symtab is the best choice.. Symtab assumes that there is a lot of variance in how often the nodes are accessed, which is typical for a symbol table. If all the nodes are roughly equal in popularity, which is typical for an associative array, then ASSOCIATION.4TH would be a better choice.

LowDraw.4th

LowDrawStrategies.4th --- These files do an analysis of low-draw poker using a recursive-descent search. This is not a Monte-Carlo "analysis," but it is a *complete* analysis of the probabilities. This software also allows the user to set up customized situations and obtain the probabilities for the various options (fold or call). This is useful for when you wake up the next morning with a loser's hangover, and you want to prove to yourself that you chose the *correct* option --- even though you lost the hand and all of your money.

All of the source-code files have associated text files (same name with a .TXT extension) that provide documentation.

I also have a file NOVICE.PDF that discusses the novice code. This is a short file that only discusses a few of the more important aspects of the code.. It is written for advanced programmers who are deciding if they want to recommend my novice package to novices or not.
I can be contacted at hughaguilar96 -at- yahoo.com for comment.

If you have any software that you would like included in the novice package,
I would be willing to do this if I think that it is a good example of using the novice package and/or would be useful for novices to learn from.
I would give you credit for writing the code.

Hugh Aguilar

hughaguilar96 -at- yahoo.com

novice.forth.zip - 239 Kb zip file this file is up to date to Oct.2020

Re: EuroForth 2023 Call for Papers and Participation

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Subject: Re: EuroForth 2023 Call for Papers and Participation
From: minfo...@arcor.de (minforth)
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 by: minforth - Thu, 29 Jun 2023 13:18 UTC

Jurgen Pitaske schrieb am Donnerstag, 29. Juni 2023 um 14:57:15 UTC+2:
> On Thursday, 29 June 2023 at 10:29:56 UTC+1, Stephen Pelc wrote:
> > On 29 Jun 2023 at 00:49:41 CEST, "Hugh Aguilar" <hughag...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > <rant rant rant>
> > > Don't just copy my code from the novice-package --- that would be cheating!
> > > Now is the time to do some "research" on the subject of linked-lists! lol
> > Well, where is this wonder code? A few weeks ago you ignored your own BSD
> > licence claim and begged us not to use it. Please provide us with the
> > 'official'
> > distribution of the novice package. You could even document the change
> > history.
> >
> > Stephen
> >
> > P.S. I just could not resist.
> > http://www.mpeforth.com - free VFX Forth downloads
> Just googled it. And downloaded it just to see if the 100k zip is still there.
> https://www.forth2020.org/beginners-to-forth/a-novice-package

Well, to be fair, there is some serious work in the package, obviously written
by Dr. Hugh Jekyll. Unfortunatley Hugh Hyde loves banging noses and singing
foul songs, and so disqualifies Jekyll's job. Sad to observe.

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Subject: Re: EuroForth 2023 Call for Papers and Participation
From: hughagui...@gmail.com (Hugh Aguilar)
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 by: Hugh Aguilar - Sat, 1 Jul 2023 00:47 UTC

On Thursday, June 29, 2023 at 2:29:56 AM UTC-7, Stephen Pelc wrote:
> On 29 Jun 2023 at 00:49:41 CEST, "Hugh Aguilar" <hughag...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> <rant rant rant>
> > Don't just copy my code from the novice-package --- that would be cheating!
> > Now is the time to do some "research" on the subject of linked-lists! lol
> Well, where is this wonder code? A few weeks ago you ignored your own BSD
> licence claim and begged us not to use it. Please provide us with the
> 'official'
> distribution of the novice package. You could even document the change
> history.

Your use the term "wonder code" is offensive.
You are implying that it is crap.
The truth is that my disambiguifiers allow me to implement an early-binding
MACRO: as well as SYNONYM in ANS-Forth. You have failed badly at this.
My rquotations allow me to implement general-purpose data-structures
in a much better way than I had originally in which the pseudo-quotation
had to communicate with the parent function using the data-stack rather
than by accessing the locals (your Paysan-faked quotations are effectively
the same as my pseudo-quotations that I had back in 2010).

You don't deserve to be given source-code!

Prove that you know what a general-purpose data-structure is.
Your employee and Forth-200x committee member Peter Knaggs
failed badly at this. You will fail too! You are ignorant of basic
computer-science concepts --- this is why you will fail.

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Subject: Re: EuroForth 2023 Call for Papers and Participation
From: jpita...@gmail.com (Jurgen Pitaske)
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 by: Jurgen Pitaske - Sat, 1 Jul 2023 06:03 UTC

On Saturday, 1 July 2023 at 01:47:29 UTC+1, Hugh Aguilar wrote:
> On Thursday, June 29, 2023 at 2:29:56 AM UTC-7, Stephen Pelc wrote:
> > On 29 Jun 2023 at 00:49:41 CEST, "Hugh Aguilar" <hughag...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > <rant rant rant>
> > > Don't just copy my code from the novice-package --- that would be cheating!
> > > Now is the time to do some "research" on the subject of linked-lists! lol
> > Well, where is this wonder code? A few weeks ago you ignored your own BSD
> > licence claim and begged us not to use it. Please provide us with the
> > 'official'
> > distribution of the novice package. You could even document the change
> > history.
> Your use the term "wonder code" is offensive.
> You are implying that it is crap.
> The truth is that my disambiguifiers allow me to implement an early-binding
> MACRO: as well as SYNONYM in ANS-Forth. You have failed badly at this.
> My rquotations allow me to implement general-purpose data-structures
> in a much better way than I had originally in which the pseudo-quotation
> had to communicate with the parent function using the data-stack rather
> than by accessing the locals (your Paysan-faked quotations are effectively
> the same as my pseudo-quotations that I had back in 2010).
>
> You don't deserve to be given source-code!
>
> Prove that you know what a general-purpose data-structure is.
> Your employee and Forth-200x committee member Peter Knaggs
> failed badly at this. You will fail too! You are ignorant of basic
> computer-science concepts --- this is why you will fail.

The rant:

Prove that you know what a general-purpose data-structure is.
Your employee and Forth-200x committee member Peter Knaggs
failed badly at this. You will fail too! You are ignorant of basic
computer-science concepts --- this is why you will fail.

Is this actually correct or not????????????????????????????????


devel / comp.lang.forth / Re: EuroForth 2023 Call for Papers and Participation

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