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devel / comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc / Re: shell defaults

SubjectAuthor
* shell defaultsLouis Epstein
+* Re: shell defaultsWinston
|+* Re: shell defaultsLouis Epstein
||`* Re: shell defaultsChristian Weisgerber
|| `- Re: shell defaultsBob Eager
|`- Re: shell defaultsPhilip Paeps
`* Re: shell defaultsChristian Weisgerber
 `* Re: shell defaultsLouis Epstein
  `- Re: shell defaultsWinston

1
shell defaults

<um5iae$2k9$1@reader1.panix.com>

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From: le...@main.lekno.ws (Louis Epstein)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc
Subject: shell defaults
Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2023 02:57:18 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and UNIX, NYC
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 by: Louis Epstein - Sat, 23 Dec 2023 02:57 UTC

I note that the article from debugpoint.com about
the new features of FreeBSD 14 says it has
"elevated the root user's default shell to sh".

So what has it been until now?
When I am in a fsck situation in 13,
as with previous versions,the single user
mode prompt tells me to enter a shell or
RETURN for sh indicating sh is already
the default.

I thought only the Thompson and Mashey shells
predated sh,with csh,bash,etc. being more advanced?
What's the "unelevated" level?

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

Re: shell defaults

<yd1qbdwm5k.fsf@UBEblock.psr.com>

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From: wbe...@UBEBLOCK.psr.com.invalid (Winston)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc
Subject: Re: shell defaults
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2023 23:57:59 -0500
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 by: Winston - Sat, 23 Dec 2023 04:57 UTC

Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> writes:
> I note that the article from debugpoint.com about
> the new features of FreeBSD 14 says it has
> "elevated the root user's default shell to sh".

Maybe the author prefers sh to csh? :)

> I thought only the Thompson and Mashey shells
> predated sh,with csh,bash,etc. being more advanced?

Development of sh didn't stop, and today's sh has many
improvements compared with the 1980's sh.

In the end, does the installation default matter?
If you prefer csh, use chsh to change it back.
-WBE

Re: shell defaults

<um61ct$bpd$1@reader1.panix.com>

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From: le...@main.lekno.ws (Louis Epstein)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc
Subject: Re: shell defaults
Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2023 07:14:37 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and UNIX, NYC
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 by: Louis Epstein - Sat, 23 Dec 2023 07:14 UTC

Winston <wbe@ubeblock.psr.com.invalid> wrote:
> Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> writes:
>> I note that the article from debugpoint.com about
>> the new features of FreeBSD 14 says it has
>> "elevated the root user's default shell to sh".
>
> Maybe the author prefers sh to csh? :)
>
>> I thought only the Thompson and Mashey shells
>> predated sh,with csh,bash,etc. being more advanced?
>
> Development of sh didn't stop, and today's sh has many
> improvements compared with the 1980's sh.
>
> In the end, does the installation default matter?
> If you prefer csh, use chsh to change it back.
> -WBE

Apparently per Wikipedia's comparison-of-shells page
FreeBSD has been using tcsh as the root default but
again,I thought that was way more advanced than sh,
as an improvement on csh.

I've been mainly a bash user for over 25 years.

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

Re: shell defaults

<slrnuodp45.3co.naddy@lorvorc.mips.inka.de>

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From: nad...@mips.inka.de (Christian Weisgerber)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc
Subject: Re: shell defaults
Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2023 13:45:41 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Christian Weisgerber - Sat, 23 Dec 2023 13:45 UTC

On 2023-12-23, Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:

> I note that the article from debugpoint.com about
> the new features of FreeBSD 14 says it has
> "elevated the root user's default shell to sh".
>
> So what has it been until now?

/bin/csh, which is actually tcsh on FreeBSD.

> When I am in a fsck situation in 13,
> as with previous versions,the single user
> mode prompt tells me to enter a shell or
> RETURN for sh indicating sh is already
> the default.

Single user shell != root user's shell

--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de

Re: shell defaults

<slrnuodphh.3co.naddy@lorvorc.mips.inka.de>

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From: nad...@mips.inka.de (Christian Weisgerber)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc
Subject: Re: shell defaults
Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2023 13:52:49 -0000 (UTC)
Message-ID: <slrnuodphh.3co.naddy@lorvorc.mips.inka.de>
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 by: Christian Weisgerber - Sat, 23 Dec 2023 13:52 UTC

On 2023-12-23, Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:

> I've been mainly a bash user for over 25 years.

So was I, on FreeBSD, but I recently switched to sh(1), which has
now grown sufficient features for my interactive use, without all
of bash's additional clutter that I simply don't use.

--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de

Re: shell defaults

<kup0vdF6quaU2@mid.individual.net>

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From: news0...@eager.cx (Bob Eager)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc
Subject: Re: shell defaults
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 by: Bob Eager - Sat, 23 Dec 2023 21:15 UTC

On Sat, 23 Dec 2023 13:52:49 +0000, Christian Weisgerber wrote:

> On 2023-12-23, Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>
>> I've been mainly a bash user for over 25 years.
>
> So was I, on FreeBSD, but I recently switched to sh(1), which has now
> grown sufficient features for my interactive use, without all of bash's
> additional clutter that I simply don't use.

I have always used sh for scripting (when I don't use REXX), but csh/tcsh
for an interactive shell. And that has been the case since csh first
appeared in the late 1970s.

--
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

Re: shell defaults

<umbdou$oig$3@reader1.panix.com>

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From: le...@main.lekno.ws (Louis Epstein)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc
Subject: Re: shell defaults
Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2023 08:16:30 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and UNIX, NYC
Message-ID: <umbdou$oig$3@reader1.panix.com>
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 by: Louis Epstein - Mon, 25 Dec 2023 08:16 UTC

Christian Weisgerber <naddy@mips.inka.de> wrote:
> On 2023-12-23, Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>
>> I note that the article from debugpoint.com about
>> the new features of FreeBSD 14 says it has
>> "elevated the root user's default shell to sh".
>>
>> So what has it been until now?
>
> /bin/csh, which is actually tcsh on FreeBSD.
>
>> When I am in a fsck situation in 13,
>> as with previous versions,the single user
>> mode prompt tells me to enter a shell or
>> RETURN for sh indicating sh is already
>> the default.
>
> Single user shell != root user's shell
>

When one is single user does one not have root privileges?

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

Re: shell defaults

<ydo7eevgdp.fsf@UBEblock.psr.com>

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From: wbe...@UBEBLOCK.psr.com.invalid (Winston)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc
Subject: Re: shell defaults
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 by: Winston - Mon, 25 Dec 2023 08:24 UTC

On 2023-12-23, Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>>> I note that the article from debugpoint.com about
>>> the new features of FreeBSD 14 says it has
>>> "elevated the root user's default shell to sh".
>>>
>>> So what has it been until now?

Christian Weisgerber <naddy@mips.inka.de> replied:
>> /bin/csh, which is actually tcsh on FreeBSD.

>>> When I am in a fsck situation in 13,
>>> as with previous versions,the single user
>>> mode prompt tells me to enter a shell or
>>> RETURN for sh indicating sh is already
>>> the default.

>> Single user shell != root user's shell

Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> then asked:
> When one is single user does one not have root privileges?

Sure, but single user mode doesn't do all the multiuser login
stuff like looking at /etc/passwd to see what shell user X
should have. Instead, it just asks you which shell you want,
and the default is the traditional /bin/sh.
-WBE

Re: shell defaults

<slrnup1q7q.2h7e.philip@rincewind.trouble.is>

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From: phi...@trouble.is (Philip Paeps)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc
Subject: Re: shell defaults
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 by: Philip Paeps - Sun, 31 Dec 2023 04:07 UTC

Winston <wbe@UBEBLOCK.psr.com.invalid> wrote:
> Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> writes:
>> I note that the article from debugpoint.com about
>> the new features of FreeBSD 14 says it has
>> "elevated the root user's default shell to sh".
>
> Maybe the author prefers sh to csh? :)

I suspect the author was a large language model rather than a human.

>> I thought only the Thompson and Mashey shells
>> predated sh,with csh,bash,etc. being more advanced?
>
> Development of sh didn't stop, and today's sh has many
> improvements compared with the 1980's sh.

Indeed. And FreeBSD's /bin/sh today has plenty of interactive features
for day to day systems administration use.

> In the end, does the installation default matter?
> If you prefer csh, use chsh to change it back.

I prefer to keep the system defaults on installations where I'm not the
only admin. For my user account, I've been using zsh for over twenty
years.

Philip

--
Philip Paeps
Senior Reality Engineer
Alternative Enterprises


devel / comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc / Re: shell defaults

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