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interests / rec.games.chess.misc / Re: Opening traps are killers

SubjectAuthor
* Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
`* Re: Opening traps are killersKen Blake
 `* Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
  `* Re: Opening traps are killersKen Blake
   `* Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    +* Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |`- Re: Opening traps are killersWilliam Hyde
    +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    +* Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |`* Re: Opening traps are killersKen Blake
    | +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    | `- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    +- Re: Opening traps are killersWilliam Hyde
    +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    +- Re: Opening traps are killersWilliam Hyde
    +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    +* Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |`* Re: Opening traps are killersKen Blake
    | `* Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |  `* Re: Opening traps are killersKen Blake
    |   `* Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |    `* Re: Opening traps are killersKen Blake
    |     +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |     +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |     `* Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |      `* Re: Opening traps are killersKen Blake
    |       +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       +- Re: Opening traps are killersWilliam Hyde
    |       +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       +- Re: Opening traps are killersWilliam Hyde
    |       +* Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       |`* Re: Opening traps are killersKen Blake
    |       | `* Re: Opening traps are killersWilliam Hyde
    |       |  `- Re: Opening traps are killersKen Blake
    |       +* Re: Opening traps are killersWilliam Hyde
    |       |`* Re: Opening traps are killersKen Blake
    |       | +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       | `* Re: Opening traps are killersWilliam Hyde
    |       |  `- Re: Opening traps are killersKen Blake
    |       +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       +- Re: Opening traps are killersWilliam Hyde
    |       +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       +- Re: Opening traps are killersWilliam Hyde
    |       +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       +- Re: Opening traps are killersWilliam Hyde
    |       +* Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       |`* Re: Opening traps are killersKen Blake
    |       | `* Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       |  `* Re: Opening traps are killersKen Blake
    |       |   `* Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       |    `* Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       |     `* Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       |      +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       |      +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       |      `* Re: Opening traps are killersWilliam Hyde
    |       |       `* Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       |        `* Re: Opening traps are killersWilliam Hyde
    |       |         `* Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       |          `* Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       |           +- Re: Opening traps are killersWilliam Hyde
    |       |           +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       |           +- Re: Opening traps are killersWilliam Hyde
    |       |           +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       |           +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       |           +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       |           +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       |           +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       |           +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       |           +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       |           +- Re: Opening traps are killersWilliam Hyde
    |       |           +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       |           +- Re: Opening traps are killersWilliam Hyde
    |       |           +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       |           +- Re: Opening traps are killersWilliam Hyde
    |       |           +* Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       |           +- Re: Opening traps are killersWilliam Hyde
    |       |           `- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       `- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    `- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef

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Re: Opening traps are killers

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Subject: Re: Opening traps are killers
From: nastyhor...@gmail.com (Eli Kesef)
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 by: Eli Kesef - Wed, 2 Mar 2022 23:07 UTC

On Thursday, March 3, 2022 at 12:31:19 AM UTC+2, William Hyde wrote:
> On Wednesday, March 2, 2022 at 12:54:18 PM UTC-5, Eli Kesef wrote:
> > Bs"d
> >
> > Here is a nice example of a fishing pole trap: https://lichess.org/xKu7eq9cxYUQ
> >
> > De enemy was rated 1891,
> Meaningless on lichess.
> so he was familiar with the fishing pole trap,
> The game shows clearly that he was not.
>
> Your h4 move was very bad, but he fell for it.
> and after he took my bishop, and I took the pawn that took my bishop, and attacked his horse, he didn't remove his horse, because that would have led to a quick mate.
> > Instead he took a horse of mine with his bishop, and I could take his bishop, but I decided it would be more interesting to try to continue the trap. So I took his horse, and he played g3. He had no choice in that one, because he had to stop my queen from coming to h5, because then it would be all over for him. Well, at least it looked that way. Stockfish showed me he had another line which would lead to a draw, or a pawn advantage for black, but I would not have seen that, and neither did the enemy. So pawn g6 it was. At this point I could take his bishop, and end up with a pawn to the good,
> I don't think so. Your e-pawn will soon fall, and probably your f pawn also. So you have to carry on attacking.
> by I decided to throw caution to the wind, and continue the fishing pole attack, and I planted my queen on f3, so I could line her up with my castle on the h line, and make the fatal threat. I expected him then to take my pawn on f6, so that when I played Qh3, he would put his bishop on h4, to save his king from being mated.
> Better to take on f6 with the queen, giving the bishop back a different way. He gets two pawns and has an easy win. With his queen having access to g7 there is no mate.

Bs"d

Interesting, I hadn't seen that one. It is weird, the moment he does g3, Stockfish says I'm 6.1 points ahead. But, after I play my queen to f4, he right away puts me on -4.7, that must be a really horrible move I played, going down more than 10 points in one move. And I think it looks just fine. Weird.
Stockfish says that black must take my pawn on f6 with his bishop, and when I let the black queen take that pawn, Stockfish says that white then in that one move goes from -4.7 to +2.6. So there is something wrong with the queen taking that pawn.

I think Stockfish is just too good. I can't understand why he does what he does. I have the same problem when I look at GM games, I have no idea what's flying. That old saying comes to mind: "Have you ever seen a monkey examining a watch?"
It is just out of my league.

I just stick to my humble games, and don't try to understand what Stockfish is telling me, it only confuses me.

http://tinyurl.com/50-proc-math

Re: Opening traps are killers

<c9be3c3d-5867-4be9-99d1-5cd3266e981bn@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: Opening traps are killers
From: wthyde1...@gmail.com (William Hyde)
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 by: William Hyde - Thu, 3 Mar 2022 20:47 UTC

On Wednesday, March 2, 2022 at 6:07:11 PM UTC-5, Eli Kesef wrote:
> On Thursday, March 3, 2022 at 12:31:19 AM UTC+2, William Hyde wrote:
> > On Wednesday, March 2, 2022 at 12:54:18 PM UTC-5, Eli Kesef wrote:
> > > Bs"d
> > >
> > > Here is a nice example of a fishing pole trap: https://lichess.org/xKu7eq9cxYUQ
> > >
> > > De enemy was rated 1891,
> > Meaningless on lichess.
> > so he was familiar with the fishing pole trap,
> > The game shows clearly that he was not.
> >
> > Your h4 move was very bad, but he fell for it.
> > and after he took my bishop, and I took the pawn that took my bishop, and attacked his horse, he didn't remove his horse, because that would have led to a quick mate.
> > > Instead he took a horse of mine with his bishop, and I could take his bishop, but I decided it would be more interesting to try to continue the trap. So I took his horse, and he played g3. He had no choice in that one, because he had to stop my queen from coming to h5, because then it would be all over for him. Well, at least it looked that way. Stockfish showed me he had another line which would lead to a draw, or a pawn advantage for black, but I would not have seen that, and neither did the enemy. So pawn g6 it was. At this point I could take his bishop, and end up with a pawn to the good,
> > I don't think so. Your e-pawn will soon fall, and probably your f pawn also. So you have to carry on attacking.
> > by I decided to throw caution to the wind, and continue the fishing pole attack, and I planted my queen on f3, so I could line her up with my castle on the h line, and make the fatal threat. I expected him then to take my pawn on f6, so that when I played Qh3, he would put his bishop on h4, to save his king from being mated.
> > Better to take on f6 with the queen, giving the bishop back a different way. He gets two pawns and has an easy win. With his queen having access to g7 there is no mate.
> Bs"d
>
> Interesting, I hadn't seen that one. It is weird, the moment he does g3, Stockfish says I'm 6.1 points ahead. But, after I play my queen to f4, he right away puts me on -4.7, that must be a really horrible move I played, going down more than 10 points in one move. And I think it looks just fine. Weird.

The soviets used to call positions where tactics predominate "irrational". By which they meant that normal considerations didn't apply. Qg4 looks fine to you, as it activates your queen and has a threat. But in an "irrational" position only tactics matter, and stockfish says your move is tactically wrong.

After your Qg4 I thought my line won, but it's not -4.7, so there must be a better move than Qxf6. Given the size of the advantage, it seems that black must be able to both prevent mate and keep the extra piece. Black can do this with 13 ... Bxf6 14 Qh3 Re8. Embarrassing that I missed it. I failed to follow Lasker's law "When you see a good move don't play it, look for a better one" and was satisfied with 13 ... Qxf6. Which stockfish says isn't so good after all but I don't see the refutation. It never pays to ignore Lasker.

And of course there must be a better move than Qg4. As you are a piece down this must involve an attack on the king but I don't see anything immediate. Perhaps the counter intuitive line of taking the bishop and allowing a queen exchange works. If you can hold your f-pawn and double rooks on the h-file ... black is rather tied up but I suspect he can prevent that. Perhaps you should ask stockfish what it recommeds for white at move 13.

(you really have to pay more attention to your notation if you want other people to understand you - he played g6 not g3 and you've described your queen move as to f3 and f4, never the g4 you moved it to)

> Stockfish says that black must take my pawn on f6 with his bishop, and when I let the black queen take that pawn, Stockfish says that white then in that one move goes from -4.7 to +2.6. So there is something wrong with the queen taking that pawn.

This also I cannot see. Getting weak in my old age!

> I think Stockfish is just too good. I can't understand why he does what he does.

You have to ask it more questions. What does is recommend on move 13 for while, and how does white refute 13 Qxf6? That will tell you something about the position. And other positions as well.

>I have the same problem when I look at GM games, I have no idea what's flying. That old saying comes to mind: "Have you ever seen a monkey examining a watch?"

It's not an old saying, just an insult by Steinitz. There's a reason why Steinitz moved as much as he did.

I never found looking at unannotated games, by GMs or anyone else, to be of much use. At best you learn some opening lines.

William Hyde

Re: Opening traps are killers

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Subject: Re: Opening traps are killers
From: nastyhor...@gmail.com (Eli Kesef)
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 by: Eli Kesef - Sat, 5 Mar 2022 18:03 UTC

On Thursday, March 3, 2022 at 10:47:40 PM UTC+2, William Hyde wrote:

> > > Better to take on f6 with the queen, giving the bishop back a different way. He gets two pawns and has an easy win. With his queen having access to g7 there is no mate.
> > Bs"d
> >
> > Interesting, I hadn't seen that one. It is weird, the moment he does g3, Stockfish says I'm 6.1 points ahead. But, after I play my queen to f4, he right away puts me on -4.7, that must be a really horrible move I played, going down more than 10 points in one move. And I think it looks just fine. Weird.
> The soviets used to call positions where tactics predominate "irrational".. By which they meant that normal considerations didn't apply. Qg4 looks fine to you, as it activates your queen and has a threat. But in an "irrational" position only tactics matter, and stockfish says your move is tactically wrong.
>
> After your Qg4 I thought my line won, but it's not -4.7, so there must be a better move than Qxf6. Given the size of the advantage, it seems that black must be able to both prevent mate and keep the extra piece. Black can do this with 13 ... Bxf6 14 Qh3 Re8. Embarrassing that I missed it. I failed to follow Lasker's law "When you see a good move don't play it, look for a better one" and was satisfied with 13 ... Qxf6. Which stockfish says isn't so good after all but I don't see the refutation. It never pays to ignore Lasker.
>
> And of course there must be a better move than Qg4. As you are a piece down this must involve an attack on the king but I don't see anything immediate. Perhaps the counter intuitive line of taking the bishop and allowing a queen exchange works. If you can hold your f-pawn and double rooks on the h-file ... black is rather tied up but I suspect he can prevent that. Perhaps you should ask stockfish what it recommeds for white at move 13.

Bs"d

After 13. Qg4 Stockfish says that black must do Bxf6, and white is then -5.1.
When I then line up my queen with my castle by 14. h3, then Stockfish does Re8, and sudden white has nothing anymore. I can then give one check on h7 with the queen, and that was that. Gave away a piece for nothing.

Stockfish says that white must play on move 13 dxe5. Then comes 13. … Nxe5 14. Ne4 – Qxd1 15. Rxd1 – b7, and materially it is totally equal, and I think I like black’s set up better, but Stockfish give white a 7.1 points advantage.
When I let Stockfish continue against himself he goes like this: 16. Be2 – a6 17. Rh4 – Bb7 18. Ng5 – Rad8 19. Rh7 – Rxd1 20. Kxd1 – Bxg2 21. Rg7+ Kh8 22. Rh7+ Kg8 23. Rg7+ Kh8 24. f4 – Nd7 25. Nxf7+ Rxf7 26. Rxf7

That gives white castle advantage, but nobody can see that in advance. Except for Stockfish of course.

The moral of the story is that I was totally lost after my fishing pole sacrifice, but the enemy messed up, and I won the game.

> (you really have to pay more attention to your notation if you want other people to understand you - he played g6 not g3 and you've described your queen move as to f3 and f4, never the g4 you moved it to)

Yeah, you’re right. I just gave it out of the top of my head, without looking at the board, and then I make a lot of mistakes. But I didn’t really expect anyone to take my games seriously, let alone to play them over and analyze them.
But I think the notation should be good now, or at least a lot better.

> > Stockfish says that black must take my pawn on f6 with his bishop, and when I let the black queen take that pawn, Stockfish says that white then in that one move goes from -4.7 to +2.6. So there is something wrong with the queen taking that pawn.
> This also I cannot see. Getting weak in my old age!

Well, I doubt if Carlsen would see this 10 moves ahead, that after 10 moves white loses a castle.

> > I think Stockfish is just too good. I can't understand why he does what he does.
> You have to ask it more questions. What does is recommend on move 13 for while, and how does white refute 13 Qxf6? That will tell you something about the position. And other positions as well.

Qf6 is refuted in the same way as Qg4. White is then lost, because lining up the queen with the castle is just useless after black’s Re8.

> >I have the same problem when I look at GM games, I have no idea what's flying. That old saying comes to mind: "Have you ever seen a monkey examining a watch?"
> It's not an old saying, just an insult by Steinitz. There's a reason why Steinitz moved as much as he did.
>
> I never found looking at unannotated games, by GMs or anyone else, to be of much use. At best you learn some opening lines.

That’s why I prefer traps, at least with those I regularly have spectacular success.

  https://tinyurl.com/Q-trap-thank-U  

Re: Opening traps are killers

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Subject: Re: Opening traps are killers
From: nastyhor...@gmail.com (Eli Kesef)
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 by: Eli Kesef - Sat, 5 Mar 2022 20:22 UTC

On Thursday, March 3, 2022 at 10:47:40 PM UTC+2, William Hyde wrote:

> > > Better to take on f6 with the queen, giving the bishop back a different way. He gets two pawns and has an easy win. With his queen having access to g7 there is no mate.
> > Bs"d
> >
> > Interesting, I hadn't seen that one. It is weird, the moment he does g3, Stockfish says I'm 6.1 points ahead. But, after I play my queen to f4, he right away puts me on -4.7, that must be a really horrible move I played, going down more than 10 points in one move. And I think it looks just fine. Weird.
> The soviets used to call positions where tactics predominate "irrational".. By which they meant that normal considerations didn't apply. Qg4 looks fine to you, as it activates your queen and has a threat. But in an "irrational" position only tactics matter, and stockfish says your move is tactically wrong.
>
> After your Qg4 I thought my line won, but it's not -4.7, so there must be a better move than Qxf6. Given the size of the advantage, it seems that black must be able to both prevent mate and keep the extra piece. Black can do this with 13 ... Bxf6 14 Qh3 Re8. Embarrassing that I missed it. I failed to follow Lasker's law "When you see a good move don't play it, look for a better one" and was satisfied with 13 ... Qxf6. Which stockfish says isn't so good after all but I don't see the refutation. It never pays to ignore Lasker.
>
> And of course there must be a better move than Qg4. As you are a piece down this must involve an attack on the king but I don't see anything immediate. Perhaps the counter intuitive line of taking the bishop and allowing a queen exchange works. If you can hold your f-pawn and double rooks on the h-file ... black is rather tied up but I suspect he can prevent that. Perhaps you should ask stockfish what it recommeds for white at move 13.

Bs"d

After 13. Qg4 Stockfish says that black must do Bxf6, and white is then -5.1.
When I then line up my queen with my castle by 14. h3, then Stockfish does Re8, and sudden white has nothing anymore. I can then give one check on h7 with the queen, and that was that. Gave away a piece for nothing.

Stockfish says that white must play on move 13 dxe5. Then comes 13. … Nxe5 14. Ne4 – Qxd1 15. Rxd1 – b7, and materially it is totally equal, and I think I like black’s set up better, but Stockfish give white a 7.1 points advantage.
When I let Stockfish continue against himself he goes like this: 16. Be2 – a6 17. Rh4 – Bb7 18. Ng5 – Rad8 19. Rh7 – Rxd1 20. Kxd1 – Bxg2 21. Rg7+ Kh8 22. Rh7+ Kg8 23. Rg7+ Kh8 24. f4 – Nd7 25. Nxf7+ Rxf7 26. Rxf7

That gives white castle advantage, but nobody can see that in advance. Except for Stockfish of course.

The moral of the story is that I was totally lost after my fishing pole sacrifice, but the enemy messed up, and I won the game.

> (you really have to pay more attention to your notation if you want other people to understand you - he played g6 not g3 and you've described your queen move as to f3 and f4, never the g4 you moved it to)

Yeah, you’re right. I just gave it out of the top of my head, without looking at the board, and then I make a lot of mistakes. But I didn’t really expect anyone to take my games seriously, let alone to play them over and analyze them.
But I think the notation should be good now, or at least a lot better.

> > Stockfish says that black must take my pawn on f6 with his bishop, and when I let the black queen take that pawn, Stockfish says that white then in that one move goes from -4.7 to +2.6. So there is something wrong with the queen taking that pawn.
> This also I cannot see. Getting weak in my old age!

Well, I doubt if Carlsen would see this 10 moves ahead, that after 10 moves white loses a castle.

> > I think Stockfish is just too good. I can't understand why he does what he does.
> You have to ask it more questions. What does is recommend on move 13 for while, and how does white refute 13 Qxf6? That will tell you something about the position. And other positions as well.

Qf3 is refuted in the same way as Qg4. White is then lost, because lining up the queen with the castle is just useless after black’s Re8.

> >I have the same problem when I look at GM games, I have no idea what's flying. That old saying comes to mind: "Have you ever seen a monkey examining a watch?"
> It's not an old saying, just an insult by Steinitz. There's a reason why Steinitz moved as much as he did.
>
> I never found looking at unannotated games, by GMs or anyone else, to be of much use. At best you learn some opening lines.

That’s why I prefer traps, at least with those I regularly have spectacular success.

https://tinyurl.com/Q-trap-thank-U

Re: Opening traps are killers

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Subject: Re: Opening traps are killers
From: nastyhor...@gmail.com (Eli Kesef)
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 by: Eli Kesef - Sat, 5 Mar 2022 21:17 UTC

On Thursday, March 3, 2022 at 10:47:40 PM UTC+2, William Hyde wrote:

> You have to ask it more questions. What does is recommend on move 13 for while, and how does white refute 13 Qxf6? That will tell you something about the position. And other positions as well.

Bs"d

When I look here in analysis board of Lichess: https://lichess.org/xKu7eq9c/white#24 and I switch on Stockfish, and I let black do 13. Qxf6, then he gives an enormous long line, in which white doesn't get any material advantage, yet he keeps on insisting white is almost a piece up.

I have no idea why he says that, and I don't get anything out of it.

https://tinyurl.com/no-idle-amuse

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Subject: Re: Opening traps are killers
From: nastyhor...@gmail.com (Eli Kesef)
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 by: Eli Kesef - Mon, 14 Mar 2022 21:42 UTC

Bs"d

So I started with the Zukertort, but the enemy, rated 1900 on Lichess, (minus one) didn't cooperate, and I could not turn it into a Tennison gambit: https://lichess.org/boMmZoYe6rK4
So I turned it into the Italian, and then hoped for a Koltanowsky gambit. You know; that opening that has 21 traps in it.
I've been brushing up on it over the weekend, so I thought: "Let's give it a try."

At this point the enemy was willing to cooperate, and on move 5 I played d4, and the Koltanowsky gambit was in full swing. I sacrificed my d pawn. The enemy had now four options: Take my d pawn with his pawn, take it with his horse, take it with his bishop, or not take it at all. The good news is: Three of those four option are wrong, and one is OK. And if he plays the good option, then there are in that line still a handful of traps.

But fortunately, he took one of the wrong options, he took my offending pawn with his horse.
Punishment comes after the sin, and he had to part with a piece in the opening. He thought he could at least take a pawn from me, but he overlooked a small but painful pawn fork, and was therefore about to lose yet another piece, and therefore he surrendered on move 16.

Life is good when the enemies step into your opening traps.

HalleluJah!!

https://tinyurl.com/old-man-chess

Re: Opening traps are killers

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Subject: Re: Opening traps are killers
From: nastyhor...@gmail.com (Eli Kesef)
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 by: Eli Kesef - Tue, 15 Mar 2022 20:54 UTC

Bs"d

This opponent fell victim to the Stafford gambit: https://lichess.org/pj0ayC0RUPPl

I gave him a pawn, took one back, and got an exchange as interest.

Babes in the woods....

https://tinyurl.com/Deadly-Staff

Re: Opening traps are killers

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Subject: Re: Opening traps are killers
From: nastyhor...@gmail.com (Eli Kesef)
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 by: Eli Kesef - Tue, 15 Mar 2022 22:00 UTC

Bs"d

I started with the Zukertort, hoping for a Tennison gambit. The enemy didn't cooperate, so I went for the Italian, followed by the Koltanowsky gambit.. After I sacrificed my d4 pawn the enemy didn't dare to take it, a mistake that proved to fatal for one of his horses. He had to part with a horse in the opening, and the rest was a mopping up operation: https://groups.google.com/g/rec.games.chess.misc/c/hKPCQE8g-oc

Koltanowsky did it again!

https://tinyurl.com/gloeiogen

Re: Opening traps are killers

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Subject: Re: Opening traps are killers
From: nastyhor...@gmail.com (Eli Kesef)
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 by: Eli Kesef - Wed, 16 Mar 2022 06:32 UTC

Bs"d

I started with the Zukertort, hoping for a Tennison gambit. The enemy didn't cooperate, so I went for the Italian, followed by the Koltanowsky gambit. After I sacrificed my d4 pawn the enemy didn't dare to take it, a mistake that proved to fatal for one of his horses. He had to part with a horse in the opening, and the rest was a mopping up operation:
https://lichess.org/uSzymv1OxF3P

Koltanowsky did it again!

https://tinyurl.com/gloeiogen

Re: Opening traps are killers

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Subject: Re: Opening traps are killers
From: wthyde1...@gmail.com (William Hyde)
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 by: William Hyde - Wed, 16 Mar 2022 21:12 UTC

On Monday, March 14, 2022 at 5:42:46 PM UTC-4, Eli Kesef wrote:
> Bs"d
>
> So I started with the Zukertort, but the enemy, rated 1900 on Lichess, (minus one)

What confuses me is how you can be rated only slightly higher than this guy, who is terrible. You must be losing a lot of games. Are there people out there who actually know the gambits you are springing on them?

William Hyde

Re: Opening traps are killers

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Subject: Re: Opening traps are killers
From: nastyhor...@gmail.com (Eli Kesef)
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 by: Eli Kesef - Wed, 16 Mar 2022 22:00 UTC

On Wednesday, March 16, 2022 at 11:12:35 PM UTC+2, William Hyde wrote:
> On Monday, March 14, 2022 at 5:42:46 PM UTC-4, Eli Kesef wrote:
> > Bs"d
> >
> > So I started with the Zukertort, but the enemy, rated 1900 on Lichess, (minus one)
> What confuses me is how you can be rated only slightly higher than this guy, who is terrible.

Bs"d

That is because I'm also terrible.

> You must be losing a lot of games. Are there people out there who actually know the gambits you are springing on them?

My gambits work only in a minority of cases. They look impressive, but all the times they don't work I'm not gonna post here, so you see only the good looking tip of the iceberg.

Nowadays all those traps are out in the open on youtube. One of my traps, as explained by a GM on youtube, has 2 million hits, so about everybody knows it.

Fortunately there are still plenty left who fall for the traps, and make me happy. That's what you are doing it for.

But I don't think that that 1900 guy played terrible. The first piece he lost because of a trap, and the nature of a trap is that it is hard to see.
Then he blundered with pawn fork, but one blunder doesn't make somebody a terrible player.

I think 1900 Lichess are about average club players. About 1700 FIDE, about 1800 USCF. Not too bad, not too good, just club players.

https://tinyurl.com/mouse-trap

Re: Opening traps are killers

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Subject: Re: Opening traps are killers
From: wthyde1...@gmail.com (William Hyde)
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 by: William Hyde - Thu, 17 Mar 2022 23:58 UTC

On Wednesday, March 16, 2022 at 6:00:20 PM UTC-4, Eli Kesef wrote:
> On Wednesday, March 16, 2022 at 11:12:35 PM UTC+2, William Hyde wrote:
> > On Monday, March 14, 2022 at 5:42:46 PM UTC-4, Eli Kesef wrote:
> > > Bs"d
> > >
> > > So I started with the Zukertort, but the enemy, rated 1900 on Lichess, (minus one)
> > What confuses me is how you can be rated only slightly higher than this guy, who is terrible.
> Bs"d
>
> That is because I'm also terrible.
> > You must be losing a lot of games. Are there people out there who actually know the gambits you are springing on them?
> My gambits work only in a minority of cases. They look impressive, but all the times they don't work I'm not gonna post here, so you see only the good looking tip of the iceberg.

Then, since you like to win, maybe you should spend some time studying the game outside of traps. I repeat that the attack you showed a couple of weeks ago showed promise.
>
> Nowadays all those traps are out in the open on youtube. One of my traps, as explained by a GM on youtube, has 2 million hits, so about everybody knows it.
>
> Fortunately there are still plenty left who fall for the traps, and make me happy. That's what you are doing it for.
>
> But I don't think that that 1900 guy played terrible. The first piece he lost because of a trap, and the nature of a trap is that it is hard to see.
> Then he blundered with pawn fork, but one blunder doesn't make somebody a terrible player.

A trap is no excuse. That's two horrible blunders in a short game. He is terrible.

> I think 1900 Lichess are about average club players.

Not much more than 1300 in my old club, if that. I should know, at one point my rating plummeted from 1600 to 1120 (speed chess only). At that point some of those 1300 players were tough to beat. And I would definitely have fallen for every trap you ever played. Once.

William Hyde

Re: Opening traps are killers

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Subject: Re: Opening traps are killers
From: nastyhor...@gmail.com (Eli Kesef)
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 by: Eli Kesef - Fri, 18 Mar 2022 06:35 UTC

On Friday, March 18, 2022 at 1:58:09 AM UTC+2, William Hyde wrote:
> On Wednesday, March 16, 2022 at 6:00:20 PM UTC-4, Eli Kesef wrote:
> > On Wednesday, March 16, 2022 at 11:12:35 PM UTC+2, William Hyde wrote:
> > > On Monday, March 14, 2022 at 5:42:46 PM UTC-4, Eli Kesef wrote:
> > > > Bs"d
> > > >
> > > > So I started with the Zukertort, but the enemy, rated 1900 on Lichess, (minus one)
> > > What confuses me is how you can be rated only slightly higher than this guy, who is terrible.
> > Bs"d
> >
> > That is because I'm also terrible.
> > > You must be losing a lot of games. Are there people out there who actually know the gambits you are springing on them?
> > My gambits work only in a minority of cases. They look impressive, but all the times they don't work I'm not gonna post here, so you see only the good looking tip of the iceberg.
> Then, since you like to win, maybe you should spend some time studying the game outside of traps. I repeat that the attack you showed a couple of weeks ago showed promise.
> >
> > Nowadays all those traps are out in the open on youtube. One of my traps, as explained by a GM on youtube, has 2 million hits, so about everybody knows it.
> >
> > Fortunately there are still plenty left who fall for the traps, and make me happy. That's what you are doing it for.
> >
> > But I don't think that that 1900 guy played terrible. The first piece he lost because of a trap, and the nature of a trap is that it is hard to see.
> > Then he blundered with pawn fork, but one blunder doesn't make somebody a terrible player.
> A trap is no excuse. That's two horrible blunders in a short game. He is terrible.
> > I think 1900 Lichess are about average club players.
> Not much more than 1300 in my old club, if that. I should know, at one point my rating plummeted from 1600 to 1120 (speed chess only). At that point some of those 1300 players were tough to beat. And I would definitely have fallen for every trap you ever played. Once.

Bs"d

What is that 1300 you are talking about? Is that USCF, are you in Canada, or in the UK?

I once looked in to how the lichess ratings compare to the real FIDE ratings, and I came to the conclusion that on the lower level, my level, they are about 200 points higher than the FIDE ratings, and about 100 points higher than the USCF ratings, which are about 100 points above FIDE.
On the higher end they diverge more, Carlsen who is about 2850 FIDE, is on Lichess 3100 or 3200.

But I think the UK has a totally different system, with much lower numbers, and I never looked in to how that compares to FIDE.

Anyway, it is only a number. The final yardstick is the FIDE rating, because that is the world standard. But the Lichess rating is useful to compare a player to the pack, and a 1900 is a bit above average.
So if you say that he is a terrible player, then you are saying that 90% of the players on Lichess are terrible players.
That might be true of course, but it is all a matter of perspective. For Magnus Carlsen we are all patzers, and for a 700 player we are all chess gods.
Like Einstein said: "All is relative." What matters is: Are you having fun or not?

And those traps are so funny... :D

Like this game what I posted yesterday in the horse fork thread: https://lichess.org/Ykr0JWlvviRz The enemy moves in for the fork on f7. I play a crazy looking move, Nxe4. The enemy makes the fork on f7, and forks my queen and rook, something that is normally more than enough for an easy win. And then he gets horribly punished, and comes out of the opening with a horse an a bishop behind. The guy must have been totally bewildered. This goes so against all chess logic.
I think that is absolutely hilarious, a trap like that.

On the job in Holland there was chess being played in the lunch break, just 2 guys with one board. I joined in, and brought my own board.
Another colleague who couldn’t play chess, I taught him, told him what book to buy, which passages to study, (the trappy parts of course) and he worked himself in a short time up to club level.
One Monday morning he comes up to me and says: “I played my cousin in the weekend, and I caught him in a trap. It is so much fun to see somebody stepping in a trap!”

And those are the key words: “IT IS SO MUCH FUN TO SEE SOMEBODY STEPPING INTO A TRAP”.

Here is a Dutch chess player who gives away one of his traps: https://timkr.home.xs4all.nl/chess2/platypus.htm

In the second sentence on that page comes the key revelation: “AMAZING WHAT FUN IT IS TO WIN A GAME WHERE YOU HAVEN’T PLAYED CHESS”. Meaning; “Amazing how much fun traps are.”

And that’s what it’s all about; having fun. And that’s why I keep on playing traps, because I’m having fun with ‘m.

 https://tinyurl.com/two-plus-two

Re: Opening traps are killers

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Subject: Re: Opening traps are killers
From: wthyde1...@gmail.com (William Hyde)
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 by: William Hyde - Fri, 18 Mar 2022 22:35 UTC

On Friday, March 18, 2022 at 2:35:21 AM UTC-4, Eli Kesef wrote:
> On Friday, March 18, 2022 at 1:58:09 AM UTC+2, William Hyde wrote:
> > On Wednesday, March 16, 2022 at 6:00:20 PM UTC-4, Eli Kesef wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, March 16, 2022 at 11:12:35 PM UTC+2, William Hyde wrote:
> > > > On Monday, March 14, 2022 at 5:42:46 PM UTC-4, Eli Kesef wrote:
> > > > > Bs"d
> > > > >
> > > > > So I started with the Zukertort, but the enemy, rated 1900 on Lichess, (minus one)
> > > > What confuses me is how you can be rated only slightly higher than this guy, who is terrible.
> > > Bs"d
> > >
> > > That is because I'm also terrible.
> > > > You must be losing a lot of games. Are there people out there who actually know the gambits you are springing on them?
> > > My gambits work only in a minority of cases. They look impressive, but all the times they don't work I'm not gonna post here, so you see only the good looking tip of the iceberg.
> > Then, since you like to win, maybe you should spend some time studying the game outside of traps. I repeat that the attack you showed a couple of weeks ago showed promise.
> > >
> > > Nowadays all those traps are out in the open on youtube. One of my traps, as explained by a GM on youtube, has 2 million hits, so about everybody knows it.
> > >
> > > Fortunately there are still plenty left who fall for the traps, and make me happy. That's what you are doing it for.
> > >
> > > But I don't think that that 1900 guy played terrible. The first piece he lost because of a trap, and the nature of a trap is that it is hard to see.
> > > Then he blundered with pawn fork, but one blunder doesn't make somebody a terrible player.
> > A trap is no excuse. That's two horrible blunders in a short game. He is terrible.
> > > I think 1900 Lichess are about average club players.
> > Not much more than 1300 in my old club, if that. I should know, at one point my rating plummeted from 1600 to 1120 (speed chess only). At that point some of those 1300 players were tough to beat. And I would definitely have fallen for every trap you ever played. Once.
> Bs"d
>
> What is that 1300 you are talking about? Is that USCF, are you in Canada, or in the UK?

This was in Canada, long ago.

Yes, those 1300 players would probably have lost to the Tennison or other of your gambits, but they did not hang queens in g/15 unless down to a few seconds.

I once played a series of games with a 1700 rated speed player who would crush any of your opponents without even trying. Mind you, he was 2200 OTB. Some people are much worse at speed than OTB, and some vice versa.

> I once looked in to how the lichess ratings compare to the real FIDE ratings, and I came to the conclusion that on the lower level, my level, they are about 200 points higher than the FIDE ratings, and about 100 points higher than the USCF ratings, which are about 100 points above FIDE.

Tragedy then, that I am past my prime. If FIDE ratings are as weak as that now, I could have broken 2300. Oh tempora!

> On the higher end they diverge more, Carlsen who is about 2850 FIDE, is on Lichess 3100 or 3200.
>
> But I think the UK has a totally different system, with much lower numbers, and I never looked in to how that compares to FIDE.
Lichess rating is useful to compare a player to the pack, and a 1900 is a bit above average.
> So if you say that he is a terrible player, then you are saying that 90% of the players on Lichess are terrible players.

More like 50%+ by the above. But there's nothing wrong with being a terrible players. I just have more fun beating somewhat less terrible players.

> That might be true of course, but it is all a matter of perspective. For Magnus Carlsen we are all patzers, and for a 700 player we are all chess gods.
> Like Einstein said: "All is relative." What matters is: Are you having fun or not?

That is true. Botvinnik once said he never played chess for fun. Made me feel sad for the old guy.

> And those are the key words: “IT IS SO MUCH FUN TO SEE SOMEBODY STEPPING INTO A TRAP”.
>
> Here is a Dutch chess player who gives away one of his traps: https://timkr.home.xs4all.nl/chess2/platypus.htm

Tim Krabbe's pages are a delight. Have you read any of his novels? I've read a couple, but in English translation. When in Holland I could cobble together enough English and German parallels to at least read instructions (never did quite figure out what "geen" means, though) but that does not serve for a novel, naturally.

William Hyde

Re: Opening traps are killers

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Subject: Re: Opening traps are killers
From: nastyhor...@gmail.com (Eli Kesef)
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 by: Eli Kesef - Sat, 19 Mar 2022 18:35 UTC

> > What is that 1300 you are talking about? Is that USCF, are you in Canada, or in the UK?
> This was in Canada, long ago.

Bs"d

Do they have in Canada that same weird rating system as in the UK where you have real low numbers? like about 500 below FIDE for equal strength?

> Yes, those 1300 players would probably have lost to the Tennison or other of your gambits, but they did not hang queens in g/15 unless down to a few seconds.
>
> I once played a series of games with a 1700 rated speed player who would crush any of your opponents without even trying. Mind you, he was 2200 OTB. Some people are much worse at speed than OTB, and some vice versa.
> > I once looked in to how the lichess ratings compare to the real FIDE ratings, and I came to the conclusion that on the lower level, my level, they are about 200 points higher than the FIDE ratings, and about 100 points higher than the USCF ratings, which are about 100 points above FIDE.
> Tragedy then, that I am past my prime. If FIDE ratings are as weak as that now, I could have broken 2300. Oh tempora!
> > On the higher end they diverge more, Carlsen who is about 2850 FIDE, is on Lichess 3100 or 3200.
> >
> > But I think the UK has a totally different system, with much lower numbers, and I never looked in to how that compares to FIDE.
> Lichess rating is useful to compare a player to the pack, and a 1900 is a bit above average.
> > So if you say that he is a terrible player, then you are saying that 90% of the players on Lichess are terrible players.
> More like 50%+ by the above. But there's nothing wrong with being a terrible players. I just have more fun beating somewhat less terrible players.

Here on this graph you can see how a 1900 Lichess compares to the rest of Lichess: https://lichess.org/stat/rating/distribution/classical
He says that at the moment I'm better than 91% of the classical players on Lichess. I'm now 1954 on Lichess, I would say about 1750 FIDE. On Lichess a bit above average, on an average chess club about an average player I think.
> > That might be true of course, but it is all a matter of perspective. For Magnus Carlsen we are all patzers, and for a 700 player we are all chess gods.
> > Like Einstein said: "All is relative." What matters is: Are you having fun or not?
> That is true. Botvinnik once said he never played chess for fun. Made me feel sad for the old guy.
> > And those are the key words: “IT IS SO MUCH FUN TO SEE SOMEBODY STEPPING INTO A TRAP”.
> >
> > Here is a Dutch chess player who gives away one of his traps: https://timkr.home.xs4all.nl/chess2/platypus.htm
> Tim Krabbe's pages are a delight. Have you read any of his novels?

No. Didn't know he is a writer.

> I've read a couple, but in English translation. When in Holland I could cobble together enough English and German parallels to at least read instructions (never did quite figure out what "geen" means, though)

There is no straightforward translation for 'geen'. It means something like: 'not', or 'has not'.

But since we are here in the Opening traps thread, the first game I played tonight, I got a Tennison gambit against a 1879 player, and he bit the dust: https://lichess.org/jrKdQp4eNlR4
I think I made a mistake somewhere in the trap, by sacrificing the bishop, and it looked like he was familiar with this trap, because several times he had a complicated refutation on premove, and he used very little time overall.
But he also blundered somewhat, and bit the dust.
End good all good.

https://tinyurl.com/pain-temp

Re: Opening traps are killers

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Subject: Re: Opening traps are killers
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 by: Andy Walker - Sat, 19 Mar 2022 23:00 UTC

On 19/03/2022 18:35, Eli Kesef wrote:
> Do they have in Canada that same weird rating system as in the UK
> where you have real low numbers? like about 500 below FIDE for
> equal strength?

England has, sadly, recently moved more-or-less to the FIDE
system. The former grading system, far from being "weird", was far
more sensible, not least because it was possible for players to work
out their own ratings ["grades"]. Specifically, with some exceptions,
if you played a bunch of games and scored 50%, then your new grade
was the average of the grades of your opponents [ie, you have shown
that you are the same strength as they are, on average]; and each
extra percent in your performance resulted in one extra point for
your grade. Simple!

There was a simpler process suggested by John Nunn, but AFAIK
it was never used in real life. Perhaps also worth noting that all
half-way sensible rating systems give much the same results to within
a scaling; there is no merit whatsoever in complex algorithms, such
as Elo, for this purpose. Which does not stop players from obsessing
about their ratings, way beyond what can be justified.

To first approximation ECF grades and FIDE ratings used to
be related by, roughly,

FIDE == 8 x ECF + 600; ECF == FIDE/8 - 75.

You can work out approximate USCF or Lichess conversions from that.
For various reasons, inc inflation and the influence of juniors,
those formulas stopped working well some years ago, but they still
give some idea. Eg, IM level [FIDE 2400] was ECF 225. Or Lichess
1800, which you reckon to be FIDE 1600 [I wouldn't know!], would be
ECF 125.

--
Andy Walker, Nottingham.
Andy's music pages: www.cuboid.me.uk/andy/Music
Composer of the day: www.cuboid.me.uk/andy/Music/Composers/Mozart,L

Re: Opening traps are killers

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Subject: Re: Opening traps are killers
From: wthyde1...@gmail.com (William Hyde)
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 by: William Hyde - Sat, 19 Mar 2022 23:04 UTC

On Saturday, March 19, 2022 at 2:35:18 PM UTC-4, Eli Kesef wrote:
> > > What is that 1300 you are talking about? Is that USCF, are you in Canada, or in the UK?
> > This was in Canada, long ago.
> Bs"d
>
> Do they have in Canada that same weird rating system as in the UK where you have real low numbers? like about 500 below FIDE for equal strength?

We use the same system as FIDE and USCF. At the time a Canadian 1300 was about 14000- USCF.

> > > Here is a Dutch chess player who gives away one of his traps: https://timkr.home.xs4all.nl/chess2/platypus.htm
> > Tim Krabbe's pages are a delight. Have you read any of his novels?
> No. Didn't know he is a writer.

Quite a prolific one, with over a dozen novels last I checked. His brother is an actor, sometimes seen ever over here in British and Dutch productions.

> > I've read a couple, but in English translation. When in Holland I could cobble together enough English and German parallels to at least read instructions (never did quite figure out what "geen" means, though)
> There is no straightforward translation for 'geen'. It means something like: 'not', or 'has not'.

So I thought.
>
> But since we are here in the Opening traps thread, the first game I played tonight, I got a Tennison gambit against a 1879 player, and he bit the dust: https://lichess.org/jrKdQp4eNlR4
> I think I made a mistake somewhere in the trap, by sacrificing the bishop,

I haven't analyzed the position myself, but at least the computer approves of your sacrifice. Your strangely passive Qh3 lets him back into the game.

and it looked like he was familiar with this trap, because several times he had a complicated refutation on premove, and he used very little time overall.

He fell into the trap, not noticing that the e6 pawn was pinned.

In fact, not once but twice he lost a piece on that square, for the same reason, with plenty of time on his clock. And you still think these people are not terrible?

William Hyde

Re: Opening traps are killers

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Subject: Re: Opening traps are killers
From: wthyde1...@gmail.com (William Hyde)
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 by: William Hyde - Sat, 19 Mar 2022 23:13 UTC

On Saturday, March 19, 2022 at 7:00:54 PM UTC-4, Andy Walker wrote:
> On 19/03/2022 18:35, Eli Kesef wrote:
> > Do they have in Canada that same weird rating system as in the UK
> > where you have real low numbers? like about 500 below FIDE for
> > equal strength?
> England has, sadly, recently moved more-or-less to the FIDE
> system. The former grading system, far from being "weird", was far
> more sensible, not least because it was possible for players to work
> out their own ratings ["grades"]. Specifically, with some exceptions,
> if you played a bunch of games and scored 50%, then your new grade
> was the average of the grades of your opponents [ie, you have shown
> that you are the same strength as they are, on average]; and each
> extra percent in your performance resulted in one extra point for
> your grade. Simple!
>
> There was a simpler process suggested by John Nunn, but AFAIK
> it was never used in real life. Perhaps also worth noting that all
> half-way sensible rating systems give much the same results to within
> a scaling; there is no merit whatsoever in complex algorithms, such
> as Elo, for this purpose.

For those of us who are physicists, the appeal of Elo is that the ratings of a mature pool approach a Maxwell-Boltzmann distribution. Admittedly an abstruse point, but that's what you get when you employ physicists.

I read British chess magazines when I can get them. It's really not at all difficult to get the hang of that rating system.

People still read this group? I thought it was just the five of us!

William Hyde

Re: Opening traps are killers

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Subject: Re: Opening traps are killers
From: nastyhor...@gmail.com (Eli Kesef)
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 by: Eli Kesef - Sat, 19 Mar 2022 23:24 UTC

On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 1:04:40 AM UTC+2, William Hyde wrote:
> On Saturday, March 19, 2022 at 2:35:18 PM UTC-4, Eli Kesef wrote:
> > > > What is that 1300 you are talking about? Is that USCF, are you in Canada, or in the UK?
> > > This was in Canada, long ago.
> > Bs"d
> >
> > Do they have in Canada that same weird rating system as in the UK where you have real low numbers? like about 500 below FIDE for equal strength?
> We use the same system as FIDE and USCF. At the time a Canadian 1300 was about 14000- USCF.
> > > > Here is a Dutch chess player who gives away one of his traps: https://timkr.home.xs4all.nl/chess2/platypus.htm
> > > Tim Krabbe's pages are a delight. Have you read any of his novels?
> > No. Didn't know he is a writer.
> Quite a prolific one, with over a dozen novels last I checked. His brother is an actor, sometimes seen ever over here in British and Dutch productions.
> > > I've read a couple, but in English translation. When in Holland I could cobble together enough English and German parallels to at least read instructions (never did quite figure out what "geen" means, though)
> > There is no straightforward translation for 'geen'. It means something like: 'not', or 'has not'.
> So I thought.
> >
> > But since we are here in the Opening traps thread, the first game I played tonight, I got a Tennison gambit against a 1879 player, and he bit the dust: https://lichess.org/jrKdQp4eNlR4
> > I think I made a mistake somewhere in the trap, by sacrificing the bishop,
> I haven't analyzed the position myself, but at least the computer approves of your sacrifice. Your strangely passive Qh3 lets him back into the game.
> and it looked like he was familiar with this trap, because several times he had a complicated refutation on premove, and he used very little time overall.
> He fell into the trap, not noticing that the e6 pawn was pinned.
>
> In fact, not once but twice he lost a piece on that square, for the same reason, with plenty of time on his clock. And you still think these people are not terrible?

Bs"d

I'm inclined to agree with you that those people, myself included, are terrible. And to those terrible people I just now lost a bunch of rating points, through blunders, one mouse slip, and just not paying attention.

Well, as long as you are having fun. Kind of.

https://tinyurl.com/esc-real

Re: Opening traps are killers

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From: anw...@cuboid.co.uk (Andy Walker)
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess.misc
Subject: Re: Opening traps are killers
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2022 10:44:49 +0000
Organization: Not very much
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 by: Andy Walker - Sun, 20 Mar 2022 10:44 UTC

On 19/03/2022 23:13, William Hyde wrote:
> People still read this group? I thought it was just the five of us!

Personally, I still read quite a lot of groups, but these days
contribute only rarely. It used to be a rule of thumb that there are
around ten lurkers for every active poster, so we should perhaps be
grateful to Mr Kesef not only for keeping this group reasonably active
["Never mind the quality, feel the width!" -- UK saying] but also for
creating a few new readers?

--
Andy Walker, Nottingham.
Andy's music pages: www.cuboid.me.uk/andy/Music
Composer of the day: www.cuboid.me.uk/andy/Music/Composers/Bach,CPE

Re: Opening traps are killers

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Subject: Re: Opening traps are killers
From: jackhorr...@gmail.com (Jack Horrelvoet)
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 by: Jack Horrelvoet - Sun, 20 Mar 2022 20:36 UTC

Bs"d

Google has the audacity not to let me sign in in my normal account, so I made another one.
No reason to panic.

So I had a great game against somebody I had slaughtered before, and the most funny and most horrible things happened.

In this game against Sabdelazim https://lichess.org/n9Rl7nzR7pp5 I went for the Fried Liver. He countered that with a move he most likely learned from me, after my Ng5, making the double attack on f7, his horse from f6 took my e4 pawn. This is the move I always play against an attempted fried liver.
So I decided to check out how well versed he was in this opening, and I checked him with my bishop on f7. His king stepped up, after which I took his horse, and his king took my bishop. Then my queen checked him, and then he made the horrible mistake of putting his king on g8. That cost him his queen, on move 10 my horse took his queen. Then later I skewered a castle of him, and I was 10 points ahead, and then my rotten internet connection gave up on me, and I lost the game because I supposedly left the game.

I lost some more games because of my bad internet connection, and that together with some home made blunders, severely dented my rating.

But then again; who is counting?

Re: Opening traps are killers

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Subject: Re: Opening traps are killers
From: jackhorr...@gmail.com (Jack Horrelvoet)
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 by: Jack Horrelvoet - Sun, 20 Mar 2022 20:41 UTC

On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 12:44:52 PM UTC+2, Andy Walker wrote:
> On 19/03/2022 23:13, William Hyde wrote:
> > People still read this group? I thought it was just the five of us!
> Personally, I still read quite a lot of groups, but these days
> contribute only rarely. It used to be a rule of thumb that there are
> around ten lurkers for every active poster, so we should perhaps be
> grateful to Mr Kesef not only for keeping this group reasonably active
> ["Never mind the quality, feel the width!" -- UK saying] but also for
> creating a few new readers?

Bs"d

I really don't like that UK saying: "Never mind the quality, feel the width!"

It gives me the ugly impression that somewhere there is some doubt about the quality of my posts.

This is of course a totally mistaken impression, but it just doesn't sound nice.

https://tinyurl.com/castle-early

Re: Opening traps are killers

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Subject: Re: Opening traps are killers
From: jackhorr...@gmail.com (Jack Horrelvoet)
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 by: Jack Horrelvoet - Sun, 20 Mar 2022 20:48 UTC

Bs"d

Here another Budapest gambit, in which the enemy resigned on move 8, after he had to part with his queen: https://lichess.org/n9Rl7nzR7pp5

https://tinyurl.com/fab-Bud

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Subject: Re: Opening traps are killers
From: nastyhor...@gmail.com (Eli Kesef)
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 by: Eli Kesef - Wed, 23 Mar 2022 23:16 UTC

Bs"d

Here an other Ponziani-Steinitz gambit: https://lichess.org/9HTUhWKOf5Hp

I started with the Russian defense, that turned via and Italian into a two horses defense, after which the enemy moved his horse to g5, moving in for the killer horse fork on f7.

I took my horse from f6, and let it jump on the enemy pawn on e4. The enemy proceeded to plant his horse on f7, forking my queen and castle.

The result of this was that on move 12 I was 11 points ahead in material. But the enemy played on to the move 30, on which the situation was even more miserable for him, and then he surrendered.

https://tinyurl.com/chess-infinit

Re: Opening traps are killers

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Subject: Re: Opening traps are killers
From: nastyhor...@gmail.com (Eli Kesef)
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 by: Eli Kesef - Mon, 28 Mar 2022 18:24 UTC

Bs"d

Here after my Zukertort opening, I got yet another Tennison gambit: https://lichess.org/rM1H0EhfVL9R

I followed the line taught to me by GM Smirnov, and it worked like a charm.
The enemy fell two times victim to the fact that his e6 pawn was pinned, and that costed him two pieces. Since I had sacrificed my horse on f7, that put me one piece ahead.
Also in this game the enemy lost 2 pieces on the same square, because of the same pin: https://lichess.org/jrKdQp4eNlR4
Isn't that incredibly funny?? :D

Then my bishop took his e6 pawn, which was protected by his queen and king, and only attacked by my queen and bishop. So he right away took my bishop with his queen.
And that was a big mistake.
Because no I could royally fork him. My horse forked both his queen and king in one jump, and the enemy run out of the game without resigning.
That's OK, I understand. https://tinyurl.com/resign-grace
On top of that, after he run away, Lichess told me that I could claim victory in 9 seconds, so there was no harm done.

Tennison in combination with my trusty horse did it again!

https://tinyurl.com/horse4k-withu

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