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interests / rec.games.chess.misc / Re: Opening traps are killers

SubjectAuthor
* Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
`* Re: Opening traps are killersKen Blake
 `* Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
  `* Re: Opening traps are killersKen Blake
   `* Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    +* Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |`- Re: Opening traps are killersWilliam Hyde
    +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    +* Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |`* Re: Opening traps are killersKen Blake
    | +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    | `- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    +- Re: Opening traps are killersWilliam Hyde
    +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    +- Re: Opening traps are killersWilliam Hyde
    +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    +* Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |`* Re: Opening traps are killersKen Blake
    | `* Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |  `* Re: Opening traps are killersKen Blake
    |   `* Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |    `* Re: Opening traps are killersKen Blake
    |     +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |     +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |     `* Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |      `* Re: Opening traps are killersKen Blake
    |       +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       +- Re: Opening traps are killersWilliam Hyde
    |       +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       +- Re: Opening traps are killersWilliam Hyde
    |       +* Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       |`* Re: Opening traps are killersKen Blake
    |       | `* Re: Opening traps are killersWilliam Hyde
    |       |  `- Re: Opening traps are killersKen Blake
    |       +* Re: Opening traps are killersWilliam Hyde
    |       |`* Re: Opening traps are killersKen Blake
    |       | +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       | `* Re: Opening traps are killersWilliam Hyde
    |       |  `- Re: Opening traps are killersKen Blake
    |       +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       +- Re: Opening traps are killersWilliam Hyde
    |       +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       +- Re: Opening traps are killersWilliam Hyde
    |       +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       +- Re: Opening traps are killersWilliam Hyde
    |       +* Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       |`* Re: Opening traps are killersKen Blake
    |       | `* Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       |  `* Re: Opening traps are killersKen Blake
    |       |   `* Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       |    `* Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       |     `* Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       |      +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       |      +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       |      `* Re: Opening traps are killersWilliam Hyde
    |       |       `* Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       |        `* Re: Opening traps are killersWilliam Hyde
    |       |         `* Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       |          `* Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       |           +- Re: Opening traps are killersWilliam Hyde
    |       |           +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       |           +- Re: Opening traps are killersWilliam Hyde
    |       |           +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       |           +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       |           +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       |           +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       |           +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       |           +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       |           +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       |           +- Re: Opening traps are killersWilliam Hyde
    |       |           +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       |           +- Re: Opening traps are killersWilliam Hyde
    |       |           +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       |           +- Re: Opening traps are killersWilliam Hyde
    |       |           +* Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       |           +- Re: Opening traps are killersWilliam Hyde
    |       |           `- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    |       `- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    +- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef
    `- Re: Opening traps are killersEli Kesef

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Re: Opening traps are killers

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Subject: Re: Opening traps are killers
From: nastyhor...@gmail.com (Eli Kesef)
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 by: Eli Kesef - Fri, 7 Jan 2022 14:32 UTC

On Friday, January 7, 2022 at 12:04:17 AM UTC+2, William Hyde wrote:
> On Thursday, January 6, 2022 at 10:21:15 AM UTC-5, Eli Kesef wrote:
> > On Thursday, January 6, 2022 at 3:34:59 AM UTC+2, William Hyde wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, January 5, 2022 at 5:14:10 PM UTC-5, Eli Kesef wrote:
> > > > On Monday, December 13, 2021 at 8:19:15 PM UTC+2, Eli Kesef wrote:
> > > > > Bs"d
> > > > >
> > > > > I like the Tennison gambit, but the problem was, it just didn't happen too often. I had to wait with white after 1.e4, until somebody was kind enough to play the Scandinavian defense, 1... d5. Then my horse goes to f3, the enemy usually takes my pawn on e4, and the Tennison gambit is in full swing.
> > > > >
> > > > > So I found this youtube, that speaks about the Tennison gambit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwFdW7s9I7c The GM gives another approach to the gambit, I tried it, and I like my old approach better. BUT, I got something very important out of that youtube, namely that as white I can force unsuspecting opponents into the Scandinavian defense, without them willing, wanting, or knowing it. I should start as white with the Reti opening; 1..Nf3, and most of the time the enemy then reacts with 1... d5, and then I do e4, and lo and behold; we have a Scandinavian opening on the board, and to be more precise: A Tennison gambit. And that works like a charm.
> > > > > Almost always the enemy takes my e4 pawn, at the same time attacking my horse of f3. My horse then goes to g5, attacking the enemy pawn on e4, and the game is on. Most of the time they start defending the pawn, trying to hang on to their extra pawn, and most of the time then disaster hits black hard an merciless. What you get then is an Englund gambit with reversed colors.
> > > > >
> > > > > Here is a freshly played example: https://lichess.org/H4JcKTBsT82P The enemy was slaughtered on move 10. He fell for the typical Englund gambit mate.
> > > > >
> > > > > Here is an older game of 3 days ago, where I played the same opening against an 1822?, and he resigned on move 4: https://lichess.org/Xv7L6IngdSHZ
> > > > >
> > > > > Here is a game of 4 days ago, in which I followed the line advocated by the GM in that youtube: https://lichess.org/fNhzQw8p0X8J I started again with the Reti opening, and forced the enemy into a Scandinvian defense.. It worked, but it is not so devastating as that inverted Englund gambit. The enemy kept on resisting until move 20, and that is just too long. So I switched back to my old trap.
> > > > >
> > > > > Here is another example from 6 days ago in which I followed the advise of the GM. It didn't work out too bad, I came out of the opening with a piece more, and went on to win: https://lichess.org/bNDweLcoxSUD But I like the other trappy line better. However, it is always good to have an alternative line in a trappy gambit, for when the opponent gets conditioned to the first trap, then you can get him with the other line.
> > > > >
> > > > > I have had that forced Scandanivian line many more times, but not always does the opponent start to defend his pawn, and sometimes I blunder, so not every Tennison gambit is a guaranteed win, but many are.
> > > > > I'm very happy with this new addition to my bag of tricks. :)
> > > > >
> > > > > https://tinyurl.com/trappy-gambit
> > > > Bs"d
> > > >
> > > > Got another Tennison gambit, thanks to that Reti opening: https://lichess.org/67gp9bRhBYoA
> > > >
> > > > The enemy came out of the opening a horse short, and after that a relatively innocent horse fork, which was only going to yield me an exchange, finished him off. He committed hara kiri by pressing the resign button.
> > > He committed suicide with Nb3. He might be about 1200 in our speed rating system.
> > >
> > > "Resigns" was perhaps his best move in the game, though he should have played it much earlier.
> > >
> > > Usually your games have some amusement factor, seeing how people cope with your trappy openings. But not this time. You'd beat this guy about as fast with 1a3.
> > Bs"d
> >
> > I think you're right. It was not so much a trap as a course blunder by the enemy.
> >
> > But this one is closer to a trap I think, even though it is also a good pair of blunders: https://lichess.org/cRkZCwOvcVLR
> >
> > First blunder was h6,
> I think f5 is the first blunder. Not that it is necessarily a terrible move - I have no idea - but exposing your king like
> that without any idea of what to do next is a blunder. And as he showed with h6, he had no such idea.
> > giving me Qh5+, second blunder was resigning on move 5. Because if I would have made the fork on f7, he could play Qe8, pinning the horse on my queen, and things are not clear from there.
> Actually, white has several ways of winning. Resigning is the best move here.
> >
> > But be that as it may; fact is that the Tennison gambit came through for me. Again. :D
> > > I've advised a couple of (real) 1500 players I know to get on lichess.. I'd like to see what ratings they wind up with. One is a big Stafford gambit fan.
> > >
> > > William Hyde
> > Might be interesting.
> >
> > "real 1500 players", is that 1500 FIDE?
> USCF. I'll keep you posted if they bother.

Bs"d

Thanks. And the Stafford gambit is an excellent choice. Just had another taker, a 1795. He had to part with an exchange in the opening, and even though he played on until the mate, he had to bite the dust: https://lichess.org/ylDI8oY0DpKv

The Stafford gambit rocks!

https://tinyurl.com/Deadly-Staff

Re: Opening traps are killers

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Subject: Re: Opening traps are killers
From: nastyhor...@gmail.com (Eli Kesef)
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 by: Eli Kesef - Tue, 18 Jan 2022 17:53 UTC

Bs"d

Bagged another victim with the Reti opening, which so very often turns into a Tennison gambit. An 1852? bit the dust after falling in the trap in the Tennison gambit: https://lichess.org/1r7F6D1oDTF2

I went for the old trap, which gives an Englund gambit stile position. It worked like a charm, and on move 9 I happily checkmated the enemy.

https://tinyurl.com/Black-lost-Tennison

Re: Opening traps are killers

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Subject: Re: Opening traps are killers
From: nastyhor...@gmail.com (Eli Kesef)
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 by: Eli Kesef - Tue, 18 Jan 2022 20:57 UTC

Bs"d

Here yet another Tennison gambit: https://lichess.org/0Z0N1FO7xcDX On move 11 the enemy was down a horse, and he surrendered unconditionally.

I have to send that GM a thank you, for telling me about the Reti opening, which can lead to so many Tennison gambits.

https://tinyurl.com/Tennison-tank-missile

Re: Opening traps are killers

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Subject: Re: Opening traps are killers
From: nastyhor...@gmail.com (Eli Kesef)
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 by: Eli Kesef - Tue, 18 Jan 2022 21:12 UTC

Bs"d

In this game I went for the good old fishing pole: https://lichess.org/5TY437n1lFX6 Unfortunately it must have been that the enemy had previous experience with that trap, because he refused to take my horse with his pawn. He must have thought it looked fishy.
In the end I forced him to take it with his bishop, but it was not the real thing. But I had a little bit of a fishing pole situation, with a half open h-line for my castle toward his king. This made the enemy so nervous that he tried desperately time and again to exchange queens, with me running from the exchanges. In the end he was successful in exchanging queens, it was just that he overlooked that the exchange would cost him a horse, so he resigned on move 19.

https://tinyurl.com/fishy-pole

Re: Opening traps are killers

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Subject: Re: Opening traps are killers
From: nastyhor...@gmail.com (Eli Kesef)
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 by: Eli Kesef - Tue, 25 Jan 2022 22:41 UTC

Bs"d

The fishing pole is a golden oldie. I tried it again today, and lo and behold, the enemy took the bait, and got hooked: https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/321124

On move 11 it was all over, the enemy saw that mate on move 13 was inevitable, and surrendered.

https://tinyurl.com/fish-pole-trap

Re: Opening traps are killers

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Subject: Re: Opening traps are killers
From: nastyhor...@gmail.com (Eli Kesef)
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 by: Eli Kesef - Wed, 26 Jan 2022 06:45 UTC

On Wednesday, January 26, 2022 at 12:41:40 AM UTC+2, Eli Kesef wrote:
> Bs"d
>
> The fishing pole is a golden oldie. I tried it again today, and lo and behold, the enemy took the bait, and got hooked: https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/321124
>
> On move 11 it was all over, the enemy saw that mate on move 13 was inevitable, and surrendered.
>
> https://tinyurl.com/fish-pole-trap

Bs"d

Oops wrong link: https://lichess.org/gWhhH2oFZGOy

https://tinyurl.com/keep-calm-play

Re: Opening traps are killers

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Subject: Re: Opening traps are killers
From: nastyhor...@gmail.com (Eli Kesef)
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 by: Eli Kesef - Wed, 26 Jan 2022 18:05 UTC

Bs"d

Here yet another Tennison gambit: https://lichess.org/2UJXEijOPqIH

On move 7 the enemy was down a bishop, and he surrendered unconditionally.

I have to send that GM a thank you, for telling me about the Reti opening, which can lead to so many Tennison gambits.

https://tinyurl.com/beerklem

Re: Opening traps are killers

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Subject: Re: Opening traps are killers
From: nastyhor...@gmail.com (Eli Kesef)
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 by: Eli Kesef - Wed, 26 Jan 2022 22:33 UTC

Bs"d

Disaster struck.

The enemy started with d4. I'm getting a bit tired of the Englund gambit, so I decided to go for the Budapest gambit, which has a handful of traps in it. So I played after his d4 my horse to f6. He was supposed to now do c4, but he did c3. I didn't let this put me off my stride, and I played e5 anyway, even though this was not exactly a Budapest gambit.

He took my pawn on e5, and attacked my horse on f6. My horse jumped to g4, and attacked the pawn on e5, that selfsame pawn that a second ago was attacking my horse. Oh how I turned the tables on him.
Then his horse came out to f3, protecting his lone pawn on e5.
Me seeing that the pawn on e5 was no longer ripe for the taking, decided to turn this into a real gambit, and played d6, offering my d6 pawn to his e5 pawn.
He accepted. He took my d6 pawn with his e5 pawn. Then my bishop retaliated, and went from f8 to d6, taking his pawn.
So I was a pawn down, but had nice development, and had set a nice trap for the enemy. A trap that he fell into head over heels. What did he do? He played the natural move h3, trying to kick away my horse on g4. And as we all know, the road to chess hell is paved with natural moves.
Yes, he did kick away my horse, it was just that my horse went to a square he had totally absolutely not expected. My horse smacked in on f2, thereby forking both his queen and his castle, so one of the two was going to get lost.

Oh oh, these horse forks.

He decided to take my horse on f2 with his king, thereby saving his castle from certain death. But like I said; either his castle or his queen had to go.
He just saved his castle by eating my horse, so therefore, now his queen had to go.
I played my bishop from d6 to g3, checking the king on f2. That bishop also prevented the king from going back to e1, right next to his queen. That bishop, by moving away from the d line, had also totally opened up the d line, to the extend that the queens where now eyeing each other. His problem was that his queen was undefended, and because the bishop prevented the king from going back to e1 and protecting the bishop, therefore his queen was lost.
He took my bishop on g3, and suddenly his king was on a weird square right out of the opening. You don’t see that in too many openings, the white queen on g3, on move 8, and I doubt it is very good. And also on move 8, after his king went to g3, my queen on d8 took his queen on d1. And then I was a queen ahead for a horse and a bishop.
And with my horse smacking in on f2, I had also gotten back the pawn I gambiteered. I was a happy camper.

OK, he got by means of a skewer an exchange back, but I was happily hunting for his castle in the corner on a1, I was in a position where I was going to win more material, en then disaster struck. What happened was, my comp froze. Wouldn’t do anything at all anymore. I had to restart the beast to get it working again. And then, when I came back to Lichess, I had lost the game because I supposedly “left the game”: https://lichess.org/0X3HWM475pWz

Oh horror…. :(

Sorry that this is such a long story, longer than any I wrote about my successful traps, but my psychiatrist says that talking about it is therapeutic.. That I should not keep it all inside, until suddenly it will all come out in a burst of mad violence.

So I cannot end this story with a nice or funny tinyurl.

I try some poetry to express how I’m feeling deep inside…

And may we see each other again in better times.

https://tinyurl.com/roses-wilted

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Subject: Re: Opening traps are killers
From: nastyhor...@gmail.com (Eli Kesef)
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 by: Eli Kesef - Sun, 30 Jan 2022 13:27 UTC

Bs"d

Thank God, the tides have turned.

I had white, so I played the Reti opening, which was advised to me by that GM. And lo and behold, the enemy played d5, after which I played e4, and there it was, yet another Tennison gambit on the board. Well, a virtual board, since I played on Lichess: https://lichess.org/UL2dsq3J3VFH

My opponent was no noob, and 1831, but still, he started to defend his pawn.. I kept on attacking his pawn, he threw his queen in the fray, and then, suddenly, he had to say goodby to his castle on a8, and then suddenly, in stead of being a pawn up, he was a rook down. Soon there after I took another pawn, and I was on +6. He limped on to move 21, but then surrendered.

That was more like it.

https://tinyurl.com/Reti-vs-Scand

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Subject: Re: Opening traps are killers
From: wthyde1...@gmail.com (William Hyde)
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 by: William Hyde - Tue, 1 Feb 2022 23:21 UTC

On Sunday, January 30, 2022 at 8:27:46 AM UTC-5, Eli Kesef wrote:
> Bs"d
>
> Thank God, the tides have turned.
>
> I had white, so I played the Reti opening, which was advised to me by that GM. And lo and behold, the enemy played d5, after which I played e4, and there it was, yet another Tennison gambit on the board. Well, a virtual board, since I played on Lichess: https://lichess.org/UL2dsq3J3VFH
>
> My opponent was no noob,

Yes he was.

and 1831,

Meaningless on that server.

William Hyde

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Subject: Re: Opening traps are killers
From: nastyhor...@gmail.com (Eli Kesef)
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 by: Eli Kesef - Wed, 2 Feb 2022 13:08 UTC

On Wednesday, February 2, 2022 at 1:21:27 AM UTC+2, William Hyde wrote:
> On Sunday, January 30, 2022 at 8:27:46 AM UTC-5, Eli Kesef wrote:
> > Bs"d
> >
> > Thank God, the tides have turned.
> >
> > I had white, so I played the Reti opening, which was advised to me by that GM. And lo and behold, the enemy played d5, after which I played e4, and there it was, yet another Tennison gambit on the board. Well, a virtual board, since I played on Lichess: https://lichess.org/UL2dsq3J3VFH
> >
> > My opponent was no noob,
> Yes he was.
>
>
> and 1831,
>
> Meaningless on that server.

Bs"d

De average rating on that server is somewhere between 1550 and 1600, so an 1830 is far from a noob on that server.

I doubt if he would be invited to the Tata steel tournament, but that is a whole different level.

http://tinyurl.com/50-proc-math

Re: Opening traps are killers

<8f000h5dq8uno50bu1okrkg3ursfsi6d1u@4ax.com>

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From: Ken...@invalid.news.com (Ken Blake)
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess.misc
Subject: Re: Opening traps are killers
Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2022 11:21:31 -0700
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 by: Ken Blake - Sun, 6 Feb 2022 18:21 UTC

On Sat, 5 Feb 2022 22:59:46 -0800 (PST), Eli Kesef
<nastyhorsefork@gmail.com> wrote:

>Bs"d
>
>So in this game: https://lichess.org/tbJq9ykmfPd9 the enemy made an attempt to fry my liver.

No, he did not. Assuming you are referring to the "Fried Liver
Attack," this game has nothing to do with the Fried Liver Attack. As
I think I may have explained here before, 4. Ng5 is *not* the Fried
Liver Attack (aka Fegatello Attack). The Fegatello attack is the
sacrifice of the Knight with 6. Nxf7, after 4. Ng5 d5 5. exd5 Nxd5
(normally followed by 6. ...KxN 7. Qf3+ Kd6). If you don't play 4. ...
d5 5. exd5 Nxd5, White has no opportunity to attempt to "fry your
liver," as you put it.

> After a Petrov defense

Not to say "Petrov" is wrong, but in my day, that was almost always
spelled "Petroff." Perhaps "Petrov" is now more common; I don't know.

> we got the position of the Italian game with the two horses defense,

No, this is not the Italian game with the two horses defense, and not
even the Italian game with the Two Knights Defense. The Italian game
(aka Giuoco Piano; in my day it was always called the Giuoco Piano,
which means "Quiet Game") is 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc5 Bc5. If Black
doesn't play 3...Bc5, it is not the Giuoco Piano (Italian game). The
opening of your game is just called the Two Knights Defense. The Two
Knights Defense is *not* called the Two Knights Defense *to the
Italian game* or the Two Knights Defense to the Giuoco Piano.

By the way, the move normally considered best and most commonly played
after 4. Ng5 d5 is 5. ...Nh5 (avoiding the Fegatello Attack or the
perhaps better 6. d4), although back in my tournament-playing days, I
always preferred 5. ... Nd4, the Fritz Defense.

Since you like traps, I'll mention a common trap in the Fritz
Variation:

1. e4 e5
2. Nf3 Nc6
3. Bc4 Nf6
4. Ng5 d5
5. exd5 Nd4 (the Fritz Variation)
6. d6?? Qxd6 (much better play is 6. c3 b5)
7. Nxf7 Qc6
8. Nxh8 Qxg2
9. Rh1 Qe4+
10. Be2 Nf3++

I've played and won the black side of that game many times.

And by the way, another trappy line in the Two Knights Defense is the
Wilkes-Barre Variation (aka Traxler Counterattack).

1. e4 e5
2. Nf3 Nc6
3. Bc4 Nf6
4. Ng5 Bc5

You might like to look into playing that.

> and he put his horse on g5, and had a double attack on f7.
>
>So my horse on f6 jumped forward

A very agile horse. When you keep score do your write H instead of N
and C instead of R?

> and took his pawn on e4, which was defended by his horse on g5. But he didn't take my horse, but went for bigger game,
> and smacked in with his horse on f7, forking my queen and castle.
>
>I saved my queen and put her on h4, threatening mate on f2, and he castled.

You should be consistent in using the wrong terms and say he "rooked."


>Now the problem was, I had totally forgotten what to play now. Now black is supposed to sacrifice his horse on f2, and go on winning the game, but I had no idea, so I was on my own.

My opening books are very old, but the one I rely on (by Paul Keres)
says Black should play 6...Nf6 with advantage. Perhaps there are newer
better choices; I don't know.

Re: Opening traps are killers

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Subject: Re: Opening traps are killers
From: nastyhor...@gmail.com (Eli Kesef)
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 by: Eli Kesef - Sun, 6 Feb 2022 22:56 UTC

On Sunday, February 6, 2022 at 8:21:35 PM UTC+2, Ken Blake wrote:
> On Sat, 5 Feb 2022 22:59:46 -0800 (PST), Eli Kesef
> <nastyho...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Bs"d
> >
> >So in this game: https://lichess.org/tbJq9ykmfPd9 the enemy made an attempt to fry my liver.
> No, he did not. Assuming you are referring to the "Fried Liver
> Attack," this game has nothing to do with the Fried Liver Attack. As
> I think I may have explained here before, 4. Ng5 is *not* the Fried
> Liver Attack (aka Fegatello Attack). The Fegatello attack is the
> sacrifice of the Knight with 6. Nxf7, after 4. Ng5 d5 5. exd5 Nxd5
> (normally followed by 6. ...KxN 7. Qf3+ Kd6). If you don't play 4. ...
> d5 5. exd5 Nxd5, White has no opportunity to attempt to "fry your
> liver," as you put it.

Bs"d

Didn't we have this discussion before? You are probably right, but I think everybody knows what I mean, and that is that the enemy is trying to fork me on f7.

> > After a Petrov defense

I have some books on the Petrov, and in at least one it is spelled as "Petroff", but I'm not going to use 2 letters when I can use 1.

> Not to say "Petrov" is wrong, but in my day, that was almost always
> spelled "Petroff." Perhaps "Petrov" is now more common; I don't know.
> > we got the position of the Italian game with the two horses defense,
> No, this is not the Italian game with the two horses defense, and not
> even the Italian game with the Two Knights Defense. The Italian game
> (aka Giuoco Piano; in my day it was always called the Giuoco Piano,
> which means "Quiet Game") is 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc5 Bc5. If Black
> doesn't play 3...Bc5, it is not the Giuoco Piano (Italian game).

When I type “Giuoco Piano” I always write it wrong. For this one I used a copy & paste, otherwise I have to check it 4 to 13 times to get it right.
It is just too weird language.
“Italian opening” is so much easier. Therefore I prefer “Spanish” over Ruy Lopez.
That is how it is done in Europe, that’s what I’m used to, and that’s what I keep on doing.

But I got your point about the Italian, but what I meant was: White played the preliminary moves for the Italian. No, it wasn't a real Italian, but it was a real two horses defense.

> The
> opening of your game is just called the Two Knights Defense. The Two
> Knights Defense is *not* called the Two Knights Defense *to the
> Italian game* or the Two Knights Defense to the Giuoco Piano.
>
> By the way, the move normally considered best and most commonly played
> after 4. Ng5 d5 is 5. ...Nh5 (avoiding the Fegatello Attack or the
> perhaps better 6. d4), although back in my tournament-playing days, I
> always preferred 5. ... Nd4, the Fritz Defense.
>
> Since you like traps, I'll mention a common trap in the Fritz
> Variation:
>
> 1. e4 e5
> 2. Nf3 Nc6
> 3. Bc4 Nf6
> 4. Ng5 d5
> 5. exd5 Nd4 (the Fritz Variation)
> 6. d6?? Qxd6 (much better play is 6. c3 b5)
> 7. Nxf7 Qc6
> 8. Nxh8 Qxg2
> 9. Rh1 Qe4+
> 10. Be2 Nf3++

That's a humoristic one. I have played those, but not with the handle Carnivorum. At least I couldn't find them quickly.
Here are some of 'm:

https://lichess.org/OYQEe7Jf/black#20
https://lichess.org/WoGCaVJB/black
https://lichess.org/1TjxvsB3/black#20

I played this more often, but I don’t feel like digging them all up..

>
> I've played and won the black side of that game many times.
>
> And by the way, another trappy line in the Two Knights Defense is the
> Wilkes-Barre Variation (aka Traxler Counterattack).
>
> 1. e4 e5
> 2. Nf3 Nc6
> 3. Bc4 Nf6
> 4. Ng5 Bc5
>
> You might like to look into playing that.

When it is played against me, I hate it. I lose often against it, so I try to avoid it.

> > and he put his horse on g5, and had a double attack on f7.
> >
> >So my horse on f6 jumped forward
> A very agile horse. When you keep score do your write H instead of N
> and C instead of R?

No, I write P in stead of N, and T in stead of R. That’s because I use the Dutch initials, which is my native language.

P stands for “paard”, and that means horse. T stands for “toren” and that means tower.
> > and took his pawn on e4, which was defended by his horse on g5. But he didn't take my horse, but went for bigger game,
> > and smacked in with his horse on f7, forking my queen and castle.
> >
> >I saved my queen and put her on h4, threatening mate on f2, and he castled.
> You should be consistent in using the wrong terms and say he "rooked."

Sometimes I mix things up. I see that above I used “castle” and also “rook”.
Slip of the keyboard.

> >Now the problem was, I had totally forgotten what to play now. Now black is supposed to sacrifice his horse on f2, and go on winning the game, but I had no idea, so I was on my own.
> My opening books are very old, but the one I rely on (by Paul Keres)
> says Black should play 6...Nf6 with advantage. Perhaps there are newer
> better choices; I don't know.

I just checked Stockfish, and he says sacrifice your horse on f2, and he sets white on minus 3.5. So that is bad for white and as good as winning for black.

I got put on that Ponziano-Steinitz gambit by one of my trap books, written by two GM’s. But they give only one line. It was GM Igor Smirnov who gave me a whole repertoire in the Ponziano-Steinitz gambit. The only problem is to rember that whole repertoire. Here is GM Smirnov: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyt01xy_ytg

https://tinyurl.com/castle-early

Re: Opening traps are killers

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Subject: Re: Opening traps are killers
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 by: Ken Blake - Mon, 7 Feb 2022 00:13 UTC

On Sun, 6 Feb 2022 14:56:48 -0800 (PST), Eli Kesef
<nastyhorsefork@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sunday, February 6, 2022 at 8:21:35 PM UTC+2, Ken Blake wrote:
>> On Sat, 5 Feb 2022 22:59:46 -0800 (PST), Eli Kesef
>> <nastyho...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >Bs"d
>> >
>> >So in this game: https://lichess.org/tbJq9ykmfPd9 the enemy made an attempt to fry my liver.

>> No, he did not. Assuming you are referring to the "Fried Liver
>> Attack," this game has nothing to do with the Fried Liver Attack. As
>> I think I may have explained here before, 4. Ng5 is *not* the Fried
>> Liver Attack (aka Fegatello Attack). The Fegatello attack is the
>> sacrifice of the Knight with 6. Nxf7, after 4. Ng5 d5 5. exd5 Nxd5
>> (normally followed by 6. ...KxN 7. Qf3+ Kd6). If you don't play 4. ...
>> d5 5. exd5 Nxd5, White has no opportunity to attempt to "fry your
>> liver," as you put it.
>
>Bs"d

What does Bs"d mean?

>Didn't we have this discussion before?

Could be. I don't remember. I post enough in the 20 or so newsgroups I
participate in that I forget a lot of what I've posted.

> You are probably right,

There's no "probably" here. I'm not always sure I'm right about
everything, but I'm sure about this.

> but I think everybody knows what I mean,

I think that the "everybody" you are referring to in this newsgroup
probably means only about two or three of us these days. But it
doesn't matter. Everybody knowing what you mean is no excuse for using
the wrong terminology. And even if *everybody* here knows what you
mean, it's always possible that someone new comes along and gets
confused by what you say. Correct terminology *is* important.

>and that is that the enemy is trying to fork me on f7.

No, "threatening to" is not the same as "trying to." I'm sure he was
well aware there are defenses to the threat and that you probably knew
at least one. Even though there are well-known defenses to it, 4. Ng5
is one of the two standard continuations (the other is 4. d4) in the
Two Knights Defense.

And he wasn't threatening to *fork* you, he was threatening to fuck
you by forking your Queen and Rook.

>> > After a Petrov defense
>
>I have some books on the Petrov, and in at least one it is spelled as "Petroff",

OK, I'm not surprised.

> but I'm not going to use 2 letters when I can use 1.

Your choice, of course. No big deal about that, When one language is
transliterated into another, not everyone does it the same way. As I
said below, "Not to say 'Petrov' is wrong."

>> Not to say "Petrov" is wrong, but in my day, that was almost always
>> spelled "Petroff." Perhaps "Petrov" is now more common; I don't know.
>> > we got the position of the Italian game with the two horses defense,
>> No, this is not the Italian game with the two horses defense, and not
>> even the Italian game with the Two Knights Defense. The Italian game
>> (aka Giuoco Piano; in my day it was always called the Giuoco Piano,
>> which means "Quiet Game") is 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc5 Bc5. If Black
>> doesn't play 3...Bc5, it is not the Giuoco Piano (Italian game).
>
>When I type “Giuoco Piano” I always write it wrong.

Understood. Many people spell it wrong.

> For this one I used a copy & paste, otherwise I have to check it 4 to 13 times to get it right.
> It is just too weird language.

Italian is much less weird than English. Unlike English, it is almost
completely phonetic. If you can say "giuoco" correctly (something like
dzhwo-ko), you can spell it correctly.

>“Italian opening” is so much easier.

It doesn't matter. Calling it "Italian opening" is common enough that
it is well understood.

>Therefore I prefer “Spanish” over Ruy Lopez.

But "Ruy Lopez" is easy to spell (and uses fewer keystrokes).

>That is how it is done in Europe, that’s what I’m used to, and that’s what I keep on doing.
>
>But I got your point about the Italian, but what I meant was: White played the preliminary moves for the Italian.

I knew what you meant, but that's not an excuse for writing the wrong
thing.

> No, it wasn't a real Italian, but it was a real two horses defense.

No, it wasn't. It was a real "Two Knights Defense." Yes, I understand
you when you call it "horse" instead of "knight" (or "castle" instead
of "rook"), but when you do that you come across as an ignorant
beginner at chess. If that's the picture you want to paint of
yourself, be my guest.

>> The
>> opening of your game is just called the Two Knights Defense. The Two
>> Knights Defense is *not* called the Two Knights Defense *to the
>> Italian game* or the Two Knights Defense to the Giuoco Piano.
>>
>> By the way, the move normally considered best and most commonly played
>> after 4. Ng5 d5 is 5. ...Nh5 (avoiding the Fegatello Attack or the
>> perhaps better 6. d4), although back in my tournament-playing days, I
>> always preferred 5. ... Nd4, the Fritz Defense.
>>
>> Since you like traps, I'll mention a common trap in the Fritz
>> Variation:
>>
>> 1. e4 e5
>> 2. Nf3 Nc6
>> 3. Bc4 Nf6
>> 4. Ng5 d5
>> 5. exd5 Nd4 (the Fritz Variation)
>> 6. d6?? Qxd6 (much better play is 6. c3 b5)
>> 7. Nxf7 Qc6
>> 8. Nxh8 Qxg2
>> 9. Rh1 Qe4+
>> 10. Be2 Nf3++
>
>That's a humoristic one. I have played those, but not with the handle Carnivorum. At least I couldn't find them quickly.
> Here are some of 'm:
>
>https://lichess.org/OYQEe7Jf/black#20
>https://lichess.org/WoGCaVJB/black

That's exactly the same game I posted above. Why did you repeat it?

>https://lichess.org/1TjxvsB3/black#20

And again? You had to post he same game twice in one message?

Should I have repeated the moves I posted above a dozen times or so
because I played the same game a dozen times?

>
>I played this more often, but I don’t feel like digging them all up.
>
>>
>> I've played and won the black side of that game many times.
>>
>> And by the way, another trappy line in the Two Knights Defense is the
>> Wilkes-Barre Variation (aka Traxler Counterattack).
>>
>> 1. e4 e5
>> 2. Nf3 Nc6
>> 3. Bc4 Nf6
>> 4. Ng5 Bc5
>>
>> You might like to look into playing that.
>
>When it is played against me, I hate it. I lose often against it, so I try to avoid it.
>
>> > and he put his horse on g5, and had a double attack on f7.
>> >
>> >So my horse on f6 jumped forward

>> A very agile horse. When you keep score do your write H instead of N
>> and C instead of R?
>
>No, I write P in stead of N, and T in stead of R. That’s because I use the Dutch initials, which is my native language.

Interesting, thanks. I hadn't realized you were Dutch.

Speaking of the Dutch, I once played against Max Euwe in a
simultaneous he gave at the Manhattan Chess Club in NYC. I drew.

>P stands for “paard”, and that means horse. T stands for “toren” and that means tower.

>> > and took his pawn on e4, which was defended by his horse on g5. But he didn't take my horse, but went for bigger game,
>> > and smacked in with his horse on f7, forking my queen and castle.
>> >
>> >I saved my queen and put her on h4, threatening mate on f2, and he castled.
>> You should be consistent in using the wrong terms and say he "rooked."
>
>Sometimes I mix things up. I see that above I used “castle” and also “rook”.
>Slip of the keyboard.

You *mess* things up if you insist on not using the standard English
terms. As I said above, you come across as an ignorant beginner at
chess.

>
>> >Now the problem was, I had totally forgotten what to play now. Now black is supposed to sacrifice his horse on f2, and go on winning the game, but I had no idea, so I was on my own.
>> My opening books are very old, but the one I rely on (by Paul Keres)
>> says Black should play 6...Nf6 with advantage. Perhaps there are newer
>> better choices; I don't know.
>
>I just checked Stockfish, and he

"He"? That should be "it." Stockfish isn't a person.

> says sacrifice your horse on f2, and he sets white on minus 3.5. So that is bad for white and as good as winning for black.

OK, thanks. As I suspected, my old Keres book (I've had it for around
65 years) is out of date on that.

Re: Opening traps are killers

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Subject: Re: Opening traps are killers
From: nastyhor...@gmail.com (Eli Kesef)
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 by: Eli Kesef - Fri, 11 Feb 2022 14:08 UTC

On Monday, February 7, 2022 at 2:13:23 AM UTC+2, Ken Blake wrote:
> On Sun, 6 Feb 2022 14:56:48 -0800 (PST), Eli Kesef
> <nastyho...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Sunday, February 6, 2022 at 8:21:35 PM UTC+2, Ken Blake wrote:
> >> On Sat, 5 Feb 2022 22:59:46 -0800 (PST), Eli Kesef
> >> <nastyho...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Bs"d
> >> >
> >> >So in this game: https://lichess.org/tbJq9ykmfPd9 the enemy made an attempt to fry my liver.
>
> >> No, he did not. Assuming you are referring to the "Fried Liver
> >> Attack," this game has nothing to do with the Fried Liver Attack.

Bs”d

Well, it are the preliminaries to the Fried Liver.

> >Bs"d
> What does Bs"d mean?

https://tinyurl.com/Basiata-d

> >But I got your point about the Italian, but what I meant was: White played the preliminary moves for the Italian.
> I knew what you meant, but that's not an excuse for writing the wrong
> thing.

Were you a school teacher?

> >> By the way, the move normally considered best and most commonly played
> >> after 4. Ng5 d5 is 5. ...Nh5 (avoiding the Fegatello Attack or the
> >> perhaps better 6. d4), although back in my tournament-playing days, I
> >> always preferred 5. ... Nd4, the Fritz Defense.
> >>
> >> Since you like traps, I'll mention a common trap in the Fritz
> >> Variation:
> >>
> >> 1. e4 e5
> >> 2. Nf3 Nc6
> >> 3. Bc4 Nf6
> >> 4. Ng5 d5
> >> 5. exd5 Nd4 (the Fritz Variation)
> >> 6. d6?? Qxd6 (much better play is 6. c3 b5)
> >> 7. Nxf7 Qc6
> >> 8. Nxh8 Qxg2
> >> 9. Rh1 Qe4+
> >> 10. Be2 Nf3++
> >
> >That's a humoristic one. I have played those, but not with the handle Carnivorum. At least I couldn't find them quickly.
> > Here are some of 'm:
> >
> >https://lichess.org/OYQEe7Jf/black#20
> >https://lichess.org/WoGCaVJB/black
> That's exactly the same game I posted above. Why did you repeat it?
>
> >https://lichess.org/1TjxvsB3/black#20
>
>
> And again? You had to post he same game twice in one message?

It wasn’t the same game, it was a different game with the same moves.

> Should I have repeated the moves I posted above a dozen times or so
> because I played the same game a dozen times?

I didn’t post them to humor you, I posted them to prove that I already played that trap.

> >Sometimes I mix things up. I see that above I used “castle” and also “rook”.
> >Slip of the keyboard.
> You *mess* things up if you insist on not using the standard English
> terms. As I said above, you come across as an ignorant beginner at
> chess.

So if I use the correct English, than I look like a stronger chess player?

But why would I wanna pretend I’m something which I’m not?

> >I just checked Stockfish, and he
> "He"? That should be "it." Stockfish isn't a person.

I think it is disrespectful to address a supergrandmaster like Stockfish as “it”.

> > says sacrifice your horse on f2, and he sets white on minus 3.5. So that is bad for white and as good as winning for black.
> OK, thanks. As I suspected, my old Keres book (I've had it for around
> 65 years) is out of date on that.

I read somewhere that Keres was worldchampionship material, but he couldn’t find Nxf2, and Stockfish finds it in a fraction of second.
Amazing.

 https://tinyurl.com/vast-jungle

Re: Opening traps are killers

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Subject: Re: Opening traps are killers
From: nastyhor...@gmail.com (Eli Kesef)
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 by: Eli Kesef - Fri, 11 Feb 2022 14:21 UTC

Bs"d

So when the enemy played a two horses defense, I worked up to a Fried Liver, but at the moment supreme I didn't sacrifice my horse on f7, but decided to play d4, thereby going for the Lolli attack, and then after d4 smack my horse in on f7. That is, if he doesn't play Be6.

That d4 has a nice drop of poison in it, well, at least for the horse. The pawn can take the d4 pawn, but not the horse. But the enemy's horse took my d4 pawn anyway, he must have thought he was immune for the poison, and therefore the enemy had to play a horse down: https://lichess.org/PpXj6xoEHkJG

And that proved enough for a quick win.

I gave somebody some print outs of some good traps. He started off with the Blackburn-Shilling. He already mated multiple opponents on move 7. He might be hooked for life. :D

I'm learning now a new trap against the Sicilian. I'll try to keep you all informed. Hopefully the first victims will bite the dust soon. :)

https://tinyurl.com/100-traps

Re: Opening traps are killers

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Subject: Re: Opening traps are killers
From: nastyhor...@gmail.com (Eli Kesef)
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 by: Eli Kesef - Fri, 18 Feb 2022 06:27 UTC

Bs"d

This is an interesting variant of the Tennison gambit. As usual I started with a Reti, gambiteered a pawn, and the game was on:
lichess.org/emBu8UEASMPJ

After I sacrificed a pawn of mine, the enemy came out immediately with his queen, in order to protect his lone pawn. And for that eventuality I had just the right trap. The trap that the enemy fell into heels over head. The kind of trap that costed the enemy a full castle. He played on. A horse fork popped up, which costed the enemy more material, and then yet another horse fork popped up, but before I could execute that one the enemy surrendered..

Horse forks are fun. Almost much fun as opening traps :D

tinyurl.com/deadly-Tennison

Re: Opening traps are killers

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Subject: Re: Opening traps are killers
From: nastyhor...@gmail.com (Eli Kesef)
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 by: Eli Kesef - Wed, 23 Feb 2022 16:00 UTC

Bs"d

In this game https://lichess.org/p6yqZYhwywDZ the enemy played very slowly and deliberately, well, at least in the beginning, and he was high in the 1800's, so I thought I would never catch him in the obvious variant of the Tennison trap, so I went with the more obscure one. And the worked. Praise the LORD!!

He blundered away a bishop after I worked him in a real bad position. He played on, but on move 15 he blundered away his queen, probably suffering from shock because of the opening, and he threw in the towel.

Tennison did it again!

https://tinyurl.com/Tennison-tank-missile

Re: Opening traps are killers

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Subject: Re: Opening traps are killers
From: nastyhor...@gmail.com (Eli Kesef)
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 by: Eli Kesef - Wed, 23 Feb 2022 16:21 UTC

Bs"d

In this game https://lichess.org/p6yqZYhwywDZ the enemy played very slowly and deliberately, well, at least in the beginning, and he was high in the 1800's, so I thought I would never catch him in the obvious variant of the Tennison trap, so I went with the more obscure one. And it worked. Praise the LORD!!

He blundered away a bishop after I worked him in a real bad position. He played on, but on move 15 he blundered away his queen, probably suffering from shock because of the opening, and he threw in the towel.

Tennison did it again!

https://tinyurl.com/Tennison-tank-missile

Re: Opening traps are killers

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Subject: Re: Opening traps are killers
From: wthyde1...@gmail.com (William Hyde)
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 by: William Hyde - Thu, 24 Feb 2022 23:01 UTC

On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 10:10:00 AM UTC-5, Eli Kesef wrote:
> Bs"d
>
> So in this game https://lichess.org/Zcjfj1iHu39C the enemy managed to avoid the Tennison trap, only to fall headlong into the fishing pole trap.
> He tried to squirm out of it, but on move 18 the lone black king was mated on e3, while the whole black army was still stuck in the back.
>
> That's what you get when you refuse to study traps.

Your opponents would do much better if someone forbid them from pushing their h pawns until the ending.

William Hyde

Re: Opening traps are killers

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Subject: Re: Opening traps are killers
From: nastyhor...@gmail.com (Eli Kesef)
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 by: Eli Kesef - Fri, 25 Feb 2022 07:15 UTC

On Friday, February 25, 2022 at 1:01:48 AM UTC+2, William Hyde wrote:
> On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 10:10:00 AM UTC-5, Eli Kesef wrote:
> > Bs"d
> >
> > So in this game https://lichess.org/Zcjfj1iHu39C the enemy managed to avoid the Tennison trap, only to fall headlong into the fishing pole trap.
> > He tried to squirm out of it, but on move 18 the lone black king was mated on e3, while the whole black army was still stuck in the back.
> >
> > That's what you get when you refuse to study traps.
> Your opponents would do much better if someone forbid them from pushing their h pawns until the ending.

Bs"d

One of my books says: "Don't push your A and H pawns!", but I noticed I usually fare better if I do.

https://tinyurl.com/chess-plan

Re: Opening traps are killers

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Subject: Re: Opening traps are killers
From: wthyde1...@gmail.com (William Hyde)
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 by: William Hyde - Sun, 27 Feb 2022 21:39 UTC

On Friday, February 25, 2022 at 2:15:10 AM UTC-5, Eli Kesef wrote:
> On Friday, February 25, 2022 at 1:01:48 AM UTC+2, William Hyde wrote:
> > On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 10:10:00 AM UTC-5, Eli Kesef wrote:
> > > Bs"d
> > >
> > > So in this game https://lichess.org/Zcjfj1iHu39C the enemy managed to avoid the Tennison trap, only to fall headlong into the fishing pole trap.
> > > He tried to squirm out of it, but on move 18 the lone black king was mated on e3, while the whole black army was still stuck in the back.
> > >
> > > That's what you get when you refuse to study traps.
> > Your opponents would do much better if someone forbid them from pushing their h pawns until the ending.
> Bs"d
>
> One of my books says: "Don't push your A and H pawns!", but I noticed I usually fare better if I do.

There are times when it is right to use these pawns. But your opponents do so at the wrong times to such an extent that it would be better to forgo the advantage of doing this when it is right, so as to avoid the times when it is suicidal. The shortest speed game I lost as a kid involved, guess what, an inauspicious h3.

In the games I've seen, pretty much every move of your a-pawn is a mistake. You h-pawn moves mostly are part of the standard piece sac on g4/g5 and help you win very quickly. But only because (a) the opponents can't seem to help grabbing the piece. If they restrain themselves the value of h5/4 is unclear, and (b) they have needlessly played h3/6 themselves in the first place.

In real chess the h4/5 move is on occasion played, but the piece not taken. The other player is content to have provoked a king-side weakness. And while the piece cannot be take immediately, it will eventually be safe to do so, so it must be moved or exchanged with probable loss of time. But from what I have seen you need not fear that. "A free piece!" they think - and that's all they think.

William Hyde

Re: Opening traps are killers

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Subject: Re: Opening traps are killers
From: nastyhor...@gmail.com (Eli Kesef)
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 by: Eli Kesef - Sun, 27 Feb 2022 22:13 UTC

On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 11:39:37 PM UTC+2, William Hyde wrote:
> On Friday, February 25, 2022 at 2:15:10 AM UTC-5, Eli Kesef wrote:
> > On Friday, February 25, 2022 at 1:01:48 AM UTC+2, William Hyde wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 10:10:00 AM UTC-5, Eli Kesef wrote:
> > > > Bs"d
> > > >
> > > > So in this game https://lichess.org/Zcjfj1iHu39C the enemy managed to avoid the Tennison trap, only to fall headlong into the fishing pole trap.
> > > > He tried to squirm out of it, but on move 18 the lone black king was mated on e3, while the whole black army was still stuck in the back.
> > > >
> > > > That's what you get when you refuse to study traps.
> > > Your opponents would do much better if someone forbid them from pushing their h pawns until the ending.
> > Bs"d
> >
> > One of my books says: "Don't push your A and H pawns!", but I noticed I usually fare better if I do.
> There are times when it is right to use these pawns. But your opponents do so at the wrong times to such an extent that it would be better to forgo the advantage of doing this when it is right, so as to avoid the times when it is suicidal. The shortest speed game I lost as a kid involved, guess what, an inauspicious h3.
>
>
> In the games I've seen, pretty much every move of your a-pawn is a mistake. You h-pawn moves mostly are part of the standard piece sac on g4/g5 and help you win very quickly.

Bs"d

That would be the fishing pole trap. But most of the time they don't take the bait. But it is funny, playing something like that.

> But only because (a) the opponents can't seem to help grabbing the piece. If they restrain themselves the value of h5/4 is unclear, and (b) they have needlessly played h3/6 themselves in the first place.
>
> In real chess the h4/5 move is on occasion played, but the piece not taken. The other player is content to have provoked a king-side weakness. And while the piece cannot be take immediately, it will eventually be safe to do so, so it must be moved or exchanged with probable loss of time. But from what I have seen you need not fear that. "A free piece!" they think - and that's all they think.

Sometimes they do take the bait, and the win is then quick and spectacular :D

And that makes it all worth wile.

https://tinyurl.com/fish-pole-trap

Re: Opening traps are killers

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Subject: Re: Opening traps are killers
From: nastyhor...@gmail.com (Eli Kesef)
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 by: Eli Kesef - Wed, 2 Mar 2022 17:54 UTC

Bs"d

Here is a nice example of a fishing pole trap: https://lichess.org/xKu7eq9cxYUQ

De enemy was rated 1891, so he was familiar with the fishing pole trap, and after he took my bishop, and I took the pawn that took my bishop, and attacked his horse, he didn't remove his horse, because that would have led to a quick mate.
Instead he took a horse of mine with his bishop, and I could take his bishop, but I decided it would be more interesting to try to continue the trap. So I took his horse, and he played g3. He had no choice in that one, because he had to stop my queen from coming to h5, because then it would be all over for him. Well, at least it looked that way. Stockfish showed me he had another line which would lead to a draw, or a pawn advantage for black, but I would not have seen that, and neither did the enemy. So pawn g6 it was. At this point I could take his bishop, and end up with a pawn to the good, by I decided to throw caution to the wind, and continue the fishing pole attack, and I planted my queen on f3, so I could line her up with my castle on the h line, and make the fatal threat. I expected him then to take my pawn on f6, so that when I played Qh3, he would put his bishop on h4, to save his king from being mated. I could then still win his bishop, but the mate would be out the window.
And that was were he went wrong.
In stead of playing the saving move Bxf6, he played Qxd4, and that was the beginning of the end.
I lined my queen up with my castle by playing Qh3, and there was no more stopping the mate. Well, actually he could stop the mate, but that would involve him sacrificing his queen for nothing on d2, but he didn't see that, so he sacrificed his queen on f2.
An act of desperation.
My king took his queen, after which he checked me with his bishop, another act of desperation. But before I could move he saw the futility of it all, and he committed the final act of desperation, and he pushed the resign button, and it was all over.

The fishing pole trap did it again.

http://tiny.cc/dep-pos

Re: Opening traps are killers

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Subject: Re: Opening traps are killers
From: wthyde1...@gmail.com (William Hyde)
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 by: William Hyde - Wed, 2 Mar 2022 22:31 UTC

On Wednesday, March 2, 2022 at 12:54:18 PM UTC-5, Eli Kesef wrote:
> Bs"d
>
> Here is a nice example of a fishing pole trap: https://lichess.org/xKu7eq9cxYUQ
>
> De enemy was rated 1891,

Meaningless on lichess.

so he was familiar with the fishing pole trap,

The game shows clearly that he was not.

Your h4 move was very bad, but he fell for it.

and after he took my bishop, and I took the pawn that took my bishop, and attacked his horse, he didn't remove his horse, because that would have led to a quick mate.
> Instead he took a horse of mine with his bishop, and I could take his bishop, but I decided it would be more interesting to try to continue the trap.. So I took his horse, and he played g3. He had no choice in that one, because he had to stop my queen from coming to h5, because then it would be all over for him. Well, at least it looked that way. Stockfish showed me he had another line which would lead to a draw, or a pawn advantage for black, but I would not have seen that, and neither did the enemy. So pawn g6 it was.. At this point I could take his bishop, and end up with a pawn to the good,

I don't think so. Your e-pawn will soon fall, and probably your f pawn also. So you have to carry on attacking.

by I decided to throw caution to the wind, and continue the fishing pole attack, and I planted my queen on f3, so I could line her up with my castle on the h line, and make the fatal threat. I expected him then to take my pawn on f6, so that when I played Qh3, he would put his bishop on h4, to save his king from being mated.

Better to take on f6 with the queen, giving the bishop back a different way.. He gets two pawns and has an easy win. With his queen having access to g7 there is no mate.

I could then still win his bishop, but the mate would be out the window.
> And that was were he went wrong.
> In stead of playing the saving move Bxf6, he played Qxd4, and that was the beginning of the end.
> I lined my queen up with my castle by playing Qh3, and there was no more stopping the mate.

An old article proposed the following definition:

Patzer - a player who does not know the meaning of "resigns".

William Hyde

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