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interests / rec.games.backgammon / Backgamee play

SubjectAuthor
* Backgamee playTimothy Chow
+- Re: Backgamee playpeps...@gmail.com
+- Rollout: Backgamee playTimothy Chow
`- Re: Backgamee playStick Rice

1
Backgamee play

<thqkl4$2kqa$2@dont-email.me>

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From: tchow12...@yahoo.com (Timothy Chow)
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Subject: Backgamee play
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2022 21:44:03 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Timothy Chow - Sat, 8 Oct 2022 01:44 UTC

XGID=-bbBBAEb--------------g-b-:1:-1:1:31:0:0:0:0:10
X:Player 1 O:Player 2

Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
+13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
| | | O O | +---+
| | | O O | | 2 |
| | | O | +---+
| | | O |
| | | 7 |
| |BAR| |
| | | X |
| | | X |
| | | X |
| O | | X X X O O |
| O | | X X X X O O |
+12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
Pip count X: 49 O: 153 X-O: 0-0
Cube: 2, O own cube
X to play 31

---
Tim Chow

Re: Backgamee play

<78d4e28a-689b-46f3-aacd-7d3d34104bbbn@googlegroups.com>

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Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2022 03:13:39 -0700 (PDT)
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Subject: Re: Backgamee play
From: pepste...@gmail.com (peps...@gmail.com)
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 by: peps...@gmail.com - Sat, 8 Oct 2022 10:13 UTC

On Saturday, October 8, 2022 at 2:44:08 AM UTC+1, Tim Chow wrote:
> XGID=-bbBBAEb--------------g-b-:1:-1:1:31:0:0:0:0:10
> X:Player 1 O:Player 2
>
> Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
> +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
> | | | O O | +---+
> | | | O O | | 2 |
> | | | O | +---+
> | | | O |
> | | | 7 |
> | |BAR| |
> | | | X |
> | | | X |
> | | | X |
> | O | | X X X O O |
> | O | | X X X X O O |
> +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
> Pip count X: 49 O: 153 X-O: 0-0
> Cube: 2, O own cube
> X to play 31
>
> ---
> Tim Chow

This is a highly unusual position in that the opponent's inner board is so awful despite their anchors.
So the non-expert player's intuition is likely to be skewed and a strange QF play is likely to be correct.
Despite all this, leaving a shot must be bad. Sure, being hit won't usually lose, but it will surely
needlessly compromise our gammon chances.

So the candidates are 6/3 6/5 and 6/3 5/4
5/4 must be the QF play and there is a competitive nature in me which wants to be right.
But it seems like a copout to just give 5/4 right away without any analysis.
Let's count the shotleavers. That might be why 5/4 is right.
Maybe just a crude count of all the blotting numbers ignoring the number of hits for the opponent.
6/5 blots to any 6 apart from 63, 54, 53, 43, 22.
This is 16 numbers.
5/4 blots to 41 and I think that's it.
6/3 5/4 must be correct.
It's quite possible that I counted somewhat Waltishly -- I didn't check as much as usual.
But, even allowing for possible inaccuracies in the count, 6/3 5/4 must be correct, and it must be
an easy problem.

I think that some problems have a message of "Avoid this blunder" rather than "Try to figure out the play."
More a cautionary tale than a problem. Tim, which one of Hilaire Belloc's Cautionary Tales quotes this
position? I had no idea that he played backgammon.

Paul

Rollout: Backgamee play

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From: tchow12...@yahoo.com (Timothy Chow)
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Subject: Rollout: Backgamee play
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2022 08:45:04 -0400
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 by: Timothy Chow - Mon, 10 Oct 2022 12:45 UTC

XGID=-bbBBAEb--------------g-b-:1:-1:1:31:0:0:0:0:10
X:Player 1 O:Player 2

Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
+13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
| | | O O | +---+
| | | O O | | 2 |
| | | O | +---+
| | | O |
| | | 7 |
| |BAR| |
| | | X |
| | | X |
| | | X |
| O | | X X X O O |
| O | | X X X X O O |
+12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
Pip count X: 49 O: 153 X-O: 0-0
Cube: 2, O own cube
X to play 31

Paul gave a good analysis. In practice, the challenge here is to
avoid playing on autopilot; it's easy to hastily conclude that
6/5 6/3 is "forced," or to automatically clear from the rear since
that is normally the right strategy in this sort of position.

1. Rollout¹ 6/3 5/4 eq:+1.589
Player: 92.79% (G:61.65% B:14.56%)
Opponent: 7.21% (G:0.00% B:0.00%)
Confidence: ±0.012 (+1.577..+1.601) - [100.0%]

2. Rollout¹ 6/5 6/3 eq:+1.489 (-0.100)
Player: 91.47% (G:57.31% B:11.75%)
Opponent: 8.53% (G:0.00% B:0.00%)
Confidence: ±0.012 (+1.477..+1.501) - [0.0%]

¹ 1296 Games rolled with Variance Reduction.
Moves: 3-ply, cube decisions: XG Roller

eXtreme Gammon Version: 2.19.211.pre-release

---
Tim Chow

Re: Backgamee play

<1f807ba1-e0a6-458f-be83-baa68f2b9810n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: Backgamee play
From: bananabo...@gmail.com (Stick Rice)
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 by: Stick Rice - Mon, 10 Oct 2022 19:17 UTC

On Friday, October 7, 2022 at 9:44:08 PM UTC-4, Tim Chow wrote:
> XGID=-bbBBAEb--------------g-b-:1:-1:1:31:0:0:0:0:10
> X:Player 1 O:Player 2
>
> Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
> +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
> | | | O O | +---+
> | | | O O | | 2 |
> | | | O | +---+
> | | | O |
> | | | 7 |
> | |BAR| |
> | | | X |
> | | | X |
> | | | X |
> | O | | X X X O O |
> | O | | X X X X O O |
> +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
> Pip count X: 49 O: 153 X-O: 0-0
> Cube: 2, O own cube
> X to play 31
>
> ---
> Tim Chow

I would no longer refer to the on roll player as a backgamee because there is no longer a backgame in effect. The other player's forward position makes this a busted position, nothing else.

Stick

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