Does anyone know of any people famous outside of backgammon/poker
who became good at backgammon where good is XG's "World Class" -- a PR
that's better than 5?
Ok. So what do I mean by "famous"?
To have a hope of a "yes" answer, I would think we'd need to go beyond
celebrities. So here are some examples of fame:
A mathematician who might well be considered for the Abel Prize
or the Fields Medal (this doesn't mean that they won it, just that they
would be at least worthy of consideration).
A chess grandmaster.
A pro sportsperson good enough at their chosen sport to have had at least one
year where they earned at least $150,000 through it.
A writer who has been reviewed in a famous newspaper like the
New York Times.
Etc. Hopefully, I've given the flavour of the type of thing I mean.

Paul

On 11/4/2022 5:00 PM, peps...@gmail.com wrote:
> Does anyone know of any people famous outside of backgammon/poker
> who became good at backgammon where good is XG's "World Class" -- a PR
> that's better than 5?

A similar question has been raised at BGOnline a couple of times.

http://www.bgonline.org/forums/webbbs_config.pl?read=199066

If you allow other games then it's not too hard to come up with
examples. Nack Ballard was a top Scrabble player (though he usually
went by "Nick Ballard" in Scrabble). Elliott Winslow achieved an
International Master title in chess; maybe that's not a high enough
threshold for you. There may be some Japanese shogi or go players
who would meet your criteria, but I can't name any specific people.

---
Tim Chow

On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 1:33:39 AM UTC, Tim Chow wrote:
> On 11/4/2022 5:00 PM, peps...@gmail.com wrote:
> > Does anyone know of any people famous outside of backgammon/poker
> > who became good at backgammon where good is XG's "World Class" -- a PR
> > that's better than 5?
> A similar question has been raised at BGOnline a couple of times.
>
> http://www.bgonline.org/forums/webbbs_config.pl?read=199066
>
> If you allow other games then it's not too hard to come up with
> examples. Nack Ballard was a top Scrabble player (though he usually
> went by "Nick Ballard" in Scrabble). Elliott Winslow achieved an
> International Master title in chess; maybe that's not a high enough
> threshold for you. There may be some Japanese shogi or go players
> who would meet your criteria, but I can't name any specific people.
>
> ---
> Tim Chow

I think these examples count -- thanks.
Chacun a son gout but I'm personally more impressed by high ratings than titles.
Winslow's rating seems to have been unusually low for an IM -- peaking at 2350.
In fact, I think that, these days, it's below the ratings floor for an IM title to be awarded.

But yes, I think becoming an IM would count.
I grew up in a town in the Midlands (UK) with a population of approx 30,000.
At the local chess club, there was one player who was hugely better than
everyone else -- so much better that it wasn't really meaningful for him to play
against other club members (though he did so, anyway). He could get a
serious game sometimes (and sometimes even fail to win) in matches against other teams.
This immense gulf between him and everyone else was a constant factor for at least
10 years from when he was around 16 to when he was around 26.
So, I would say that this is a really impressive level.
When he was around 22, his BCF grade was in the 220 to 230 range which translates
to 2360 to 2440 FIDE. As far as I know, he was only able to make one IM norm and
never became an IM. I'm not sure how hard he tried for this title. He was never pro at chess,
and never tried to be a pro. He worked extremely hard at chess, but not with the aim of
being a pro or being an IM.
Basically, being an IM commands huge awe in my eyes.

Paul

On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 1:33:39 AM UTC, Tim Chow wrote:
> On 11/4/2022 5:00 PM, peps...@gmail.com wrote:
> > Does anyone know of any people famous outside of backgammon/poker
> > who became good at backgammon where good is XG's "World Class" -- a PR
> > that's better than 5?
> A similar question has been raised at BGOnline a couple of times.
>
> http://www.bgonline.org/forums/webbbs_config.pl?read=199066
>
> If you allow other games then it's not too hard to come up with
> examples. Nack Ballard was a top Scrabble player (though he usually
> went by "Nick Ballard" in Scrabble). Elliott Winslow achieved an
> International Master title in chess; maybe that's not a high enough
> threshold for you. There may be some Japanese shogi or go players
> who would meet your criteria, but I can't name any specific people.
>
> ---
> Tim Chow

I think these examples count -- thanks.
Chacun a son gout but I'm personally more impressed by high ratings than titles.
Winslow's rating seems to have been unusually low for an IM -- peaking at 2350.
In fact, I think that, these days, it's below the ratings floor for an IM title to be awarded.

But yes, I think becoming an IM would count.
I grew up in a town in the Midlands (UK) with a population of approx 30,000.
At the local chess club, there was one player who was hugely better than
everyone else -- so much better that it wasn't really meaningful for him to play
against other club members (though he did so, anyway). He could get a
serious game sometimes (and sometimes even fail to win) in matches against other teams.
This immense gulf between him and everyone else was a constant factor for at least
10 years from when he was around 16 to when he was around 26.
So, I would say that this is a really impressive level.
When he was around 22, his BCF grade was in the 220 to 230 range which translates
to 2360 to 2440 FIDE. As far as I know, he was only able to make one IM norm and
never became an IM. I'm not sure how hard he tried for this title. He was never pro at chess,
and never tried to be a pro. He worked extremely hard at chess, but not with the aim of
being a pro or being an IM.
Basically, being an IM commands huge awe in my eyes.

Paul

Timothy Chow <tchow12000@yahoo.com> wrote:
>On 11/4/2022 5:00 PM, peps...@gmail.com wrote:
>> Does anyone know of any people famous outside of backgammon/poker
>> who became good at backgammon where good is XG's "World Class" -- a PR
>> that's better than 5?
>
>A similar question has been raised at BGOnline a couple of times.
>
>http://www.bgonline.org/forums/webbbs_config.pl?read=199066
>
>If you allow other games then it's not too hard to come up with
>examples. Nack Ballard was a top Scrabble player (though he usually
>went by "Nick Ballard" in Scrabble). Elliott Winslow achieved an
>International Master title in chess; maybe that's not a high enough
>threshold for you. There may be some Japanese shogi or go players
>who would meet your criteria, but I can't name any specific people.

Walter Browne, Steve Brandwein, Jay Whitehead and Julio Kaplan
(all super strong chess players) were regulars in the San Francisco
backgammon scene in the late 70's. As were Winslow and Ballard.
My memory is that Nick Ballard became "Nack" Ballard because there
was another strong player named Nick (Nick Maffeo). They both
played regularly at Day's Saloon --now gone-- which had BG
tournaments every Wednesday and Sunday. Lester Schonbrun, who
some considered the strongest Scrabble player in the world, also
played in the Day's tournaments.

Hans Berliner, who birthed computer backgammon, was world
correspondence chess champion.

Hans Berliner and Steve Brandwein were at two extremes of
chess playing. Brandwein was a stone cold killer at
blitz chess. He disdained tournament chess (I asked him,
"Why?" once and he told me that it was too frustrating
waiting 40 minutes for his opponent to make the wrong move).
Berliner excelled when he had unlimited time to consider
the position.

--bks

Bradley K. Sherman <bks@panix.com> wrote:
> ...
>Walter Browne, Steve Brandwein, Jay Whitehead and Julio Kaplan
>(all super strong chess players) were regulars in the San Francisco
>backgammon scene in the late 70's. As were Winslow and Ballard.
>My memory is that Nick Ballard became "Nack" Ballard because there
>was another strong player named Nick (Nick Maffeo). They both
>played regularly at Day's Saloon --now gone-- which had BG
>tournaments every Wednesday and Sunday. Lester Schonbrun, who
>some considered the strongest Scrabble player in the world, also
>played in the Day's tournaments.
> ...

I should add that Robert W. Floyd who won the ACM Turing
award in 1978 showed up on occasion at Days. I can't
remember if he played or not, but I seem to remember that
he produced a volumninous fanfold computer printout of
optimal plays in bear-off positions. Author Fritz Leiber
was there once or twice.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_W._Floyd>
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fritz_Leiber>

--bks

On 2022-11-04, peps...@gmail.com <pepstein5@gmail.com> wrote:
> Does anyone know of any people famous outside of backgammon/poker
> who became good at backgammon where good is XG's "World Class" -- a PR
> that's better than 5?
> Ok. So what do I mean by "famous"?

> A pro sportsperson good enough at their chosen sport to have had at least one
> year where they earned at least $150,000 through it.

Jean-Philippe Rohr was a pro football (soccer) player in the 1980s. I'm
not sure they were paid $150,000 back then but he had a few national
selections, most notably for the 1984 olympic team.

After his retirement he became a very strong backgammon player, winning
the French championship twice.

On Sunday, November 6, 2022 at 12:35:04 AM UTC, Philippe Michel wrote:
> On 2022-11-04, peps...@gmail.com <peps...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Does anyone know of any people famous outside of backgammon/poker
> > who became good at backgammon where good is XG's "World Class" -- a PR
> > that's better than 5?
> > Ok. So what do I mean by "famous"?
> > A pro sportsperson good enough at their chosen sport to have had at least one
> > year where they earned at least $150,000 through it.
> Jean-Philippe Rohr was a pro football (soccer) player in the 1980s. I'm
> not sure they were paid $150,000 back then but he had a few national
> selections, most notably for the 1984 olympic team.
>
> After his retirement he became a very strong backgammon player, winning
> the French championship twice.

I think he qualifies, thanks. Re my 150,000 figure, I would discount this for inflation.
This means just over $75,000 for 1984.
But you're right that there is no reason to assume he earned that much.
Famous footballers only became wealthy later than this.
The 150,000 figure was somewhat arbitrary -- I was trying say that I wasn't including
everyone who was a full-time sporting professional but looking for clear distinction.
However, in football, in 1984, celebrity and playing for a national side didn't guarantee big money.
For the big money, maybe you had to be thought of as one of the top 10 players in the entire world.

Paul