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interests / rec.games.backgammon / The trouble with a blot on your 2pt...

SubjectAuthor
* The trouble with a blot on your 2pt...Timothy Chow
+- Re: The trouble with a blot on your 2pt...ah...Clem
`* Rollout: The trouble with a blot on your 2pt...Timothy Chow
 `* Re: Rollout: The trouble with a blot on your 2pt...Bradley K. Sherman
  `* Re: Rollout: The trouble with a blot on your 2pt...Timothy Chow
   `* Re: Rollout: The trouble with a blot on your 2pt...Bradley K. Sherman
    `- Re: Rollout: The trouble with a blot on your 2pt...Timothy Chow

1
The trouble with a blot on your 2pt...

<tklptk$sc32$5@dont-email.me>

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From: tchow12...@yahoo.com (Timothy Chow)
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Subject: The trouble with a blot on your 2pt...
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2022 10:32:03 -0500
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 by: Timothy Chow - Fri, 11 Nov 2022 15:32 UTC

....is that you have to decide how to deal with it later.

XGID=-aA--aEBC---cB---c-cBbb---:0:0:1:64:0:0:0:0:10

Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
+13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
| X O | | O X O O |
| X O | | O X O O |
| O | | O |
| | | |
| | | |
| |BAR| |
| | | X |
| | | X |
| O X | | X |
| O X X | | X |
| O X X | | X O X O |
+12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
Pip count X: 136 O: 139 X-O: 0-0
Cube: 1
X to play 64

---
Tim Chow

Re: The trouble with a blot on your 2pt...

<tkmi0v$s403$2@dont-email.me>

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From: ah_c...@ymail.com (ah...Clem)
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Subject: Re: The trouble with a blot on your 2pt...
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2022 17:23:03 -0500
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In-Reply-To: <tklptk$sc32$5@dont-email.me>
 by: ah...Clem - Fri, 11 Nov 2022 22:23 UTC

On 11/11/2022 10:32 AM, Timothy Chow wrote:
> ...is that you have to decide how to deal with it later.
>
> XGID=-aA--aEBC---cB---c-cBbb---:0:0:1:64:0:0:0:0:10
>
> Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
>  +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
>  | X           O    |   | O  X  O  O       |
>  | X           O    |   | O  X  O  O       |
>  |             O    |   | O                |
>  |                  |   |                  |
>  |                  |   |                  |
>  |                  |BAR|                  |
>  |                  |   | X                |
>  |                  |   | X                |
>  | O           X    |   | X                |
>  | O           X  X |   | X                |
>  | O           X  X |   | X  O        X  O |
>  +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
> Pip count  X: 136  O: 139 X-O: 0-0
> Cube: 1
> X to play 64

Once upon a time, the received wisdom was to avoid making deep homeboard
points. Now, the standard advice is to go ahead and make your ace or
deuce point if it makes sense.

I'll make it here, but don't relish the idea of stacking a second
checker on the deuce. Is there something better? Not seeing it, so
I'll play 8/2 6/2.

Rollout: The trouble with a blot on your 2pt...

<tkqu28$1fek0$2@dont-email.me>

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From: tchow12...@yahoo.com (Timothy Chow)
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Subject: Rollout: The trouble with a blot on your 2pt...
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2022 09:13:28 -0500
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Timothy Chow - Sun, 13 Nov 2022 14:13 UTC

XGID=-aA--aEBC---cB---c-cBbb---:0:0:1:64:0:0:0:0:10

Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
+13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
| X O | | O X O O |
| X O | | O X O O |
| O | | O |
| | | |
| | | |
| |BAR| |
| | | X |
| | | X |
| O X | | X |
| O X X | | X |
| O X X | | X O X O |
+12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
Pip count X: 136 O: 139 X-O: 0-0
Cube: 1
X to play 64

Mochy once joked that he hates 8/2 and that it is "illegal in Denmark."

http://www.bgonline.org/forums/webbbs_config.pl?read=139316

If putting one checker on the 2pt is terrible, putting three checkers
there must be even more unthinkable, right? Well, I tried 13/7 6/2 in
this position and was soundly chastised by XG for it.

1. Rollout¹ 8/2 6/2 eq:+0.121
Player: 52.54% (G:11.42% B:0.19%)
Opponent: 47.46% (G:7.41% B:0.29%)
Confidence: ±0.010 (+0.111..+0.131) - [100.0%]

2. Rollout¹ 13/7 6/2 eq:-0.019 (-0.140)
Player: 49.02% (G:9.28% B:0.21%)
Opponent: 50.98% (G:6.53% B:0.23%)
Confidence: ±0.011 (-0.030..-0.008) - [0.0%]

¹ 1296 Games rolled with Variance Reduction.
Moves: 3-ply, cube decisions: XG Roller

eXtreme Gammon Version: 2.19.211.pre-release

---
Tim Chow

Re: Rollout: The trouble with a blot on your 2pt...

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From: bks...@panix.com (Bradley K. Sherman)
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Subject: Re: Rollout: The trouble with a blot on your 2pt...
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2022 14:29:11 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: RNA + Sunlight
Message-ID: <tkquvn$bje$2@reader2.panix.com>
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 by: Bradley K. Sherman - Sun, 13 Nov 2022 14:29 UTC

Timothy Chow <tchow12000@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
> +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
> | X O | | O X O O |
> | X O | | O X O O |
> | O | | O |
> | | | |
> | | | |
> | |BAR| |
> | | | X |
> | | | X |
> | O X | | X |
> | O X X | | X |
> | O X X | | X O X O |
> +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
>Pip count X: 136 O: 139 X-O: 0-0
>Cube: 1
>X to play 64
> ...
> 1. Rollout¹ 8/2 6/2 eq:+0.121

Yuck. This is the ugliest "right" move that I have ever seen.

--bks

Re: Rollout: The trouble with a blot on your 2pt...

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From: tchow12...@yahoo.com (Timothy Chow)
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Subject: Re: Rollout: The trouble with a blot on your 2pt...
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2022 19:06:05 -0500
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Timothy Chow - Mon, 14 Nov 2022 00:06 UTC

On 11/13/2022 9:29 AM, Bradley K. Sherman wrote:
> Yuck. This is the ugliest "right" move that I have ever seen.

Here's another candidate for that title, taken from "Chow's
Checkerplay Challenge #2":

XGID=-BBa--DbC----D---aabbbbb--:0:0:1:21:0:0:0:1:10

Score is X:0 O:0 1 pt.(s) match.
+13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
| X O O | | O O O O O |
| X | | O O O O O |
| X | | |
| X | | |
| | | |
| |BAR| |
| | | |
| | | X |
| X | | X |
| X O | | X X X |
| X O | | X O X X |
+12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
Pip count X: 106 O: 113 X-O: 0-0/1
Cube: 1
X to play 21

1. XG Roller++ 8/6 2/1 eq:-0.058
Player: 47.12% (G:2.79% B:0.04%)
Opponent: 52.88% (G:10.79% B:0.13%)

2. XG Roller++ 6/3* eq:-0.109 (-0.052)
Player: 44.53% (G:4.26% B:0.08%)
Opponent: 55.47% (G:18.66% B:0.27%)

eXtreme Gammon Version: 2.19.211.pre-release, MET: Kazaross XG2

---
Tim Chow

Re: Rollout: The trouble with a blot on your 2pt...

<tks2e0$gc3$1@reader2.panix.com>

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From: bks...@panix.com (Bradley K. Sherman)
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Subject: Re: Rollout: The trouble with a blot on your 2pt...
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2022 00:34:08 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: RNA + Sunlight
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 by: Bradley K. Sherman - Mon, 14 Nov 2022 00:34 UTC

Timothy Chow <tchow12000@yahoo.com> wrote:
>On 11/13/2022 9:29 AM, Bradley K. Sherman wrote:
>> Yuck. This is the ugliest "right" move that I have ever seen.
>
>Here's another candidate for that title, taken from "Chow's
>Checkerplay Challenge #2":
>
>XGID=-BBa--DbC----D---aabbbbb--:0:0:1:21:0:0:0:1:10
>
>Score is X:0 O:0 1 pt.(s) match.
> +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
> | X O O | | O O O O O |
> | X | | O O O O O |
> | X | | |
> | X | | |
> | | | |
> | |BAR| |
> | | | |
> | | | X |
> | X | | X |
> | X O | | X X X |
> | X O | | X O X X |
> +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
>Pip count X: 106 O: 113 X-O: 0-0/1
>Cube: 1
>X to play 21
>
> 1. XG Roller++ 8/6 2/1 eq:-0.058

I don't find that as objectionable.

--bks

Re: Rollout: The trouble with a blot on your 2pt...

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From: tchow12...@yahoo.com (Timothy Chow)
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Subject: Re: Rollout: The trouble with a blot on your 2pt...
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2022 21:15:33 -0500
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In-Reply-To: <tks2e0$gc3$1@reader2.panix.com>
 by: Timothy Chow - Mon, 14 Nov 2022 02:15 UTC

Here's another "ugly" play, though still probably not as ugly as the
incumbent. Also, it's not clear that this play is "correct"; see
here for a long rollout that is still inconclusive:

http://www.bgonline.org/forums/webbbs_config.pl?read=70775

XGID=-b----E-D---eD---b-d--AbA-:0:0:1:43:0:0:0:0:10

Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
+13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
| X O | | O X O X |
| X O | | O O |
| X | | O |
| X | | O |
| | | |
| |BAR| |
| O | | X |
| O X | | X |
| O X | | X |
| O X | | X O |
| O X | | X O |
+12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
Pip count X: 160 O: 157 X-O: 0-0
Cube: 1
X to play 43

1. XG Roller++ 13/6 eq:-0.093
Player: 47.97% (G:12.92% B:0.59%)
Opponent: 52.03% (G:16.09% B:0.52%)

2. XG Roller++ 24/21 13/9 eq:-0.101 (-0.008)
Player: 48.39% (G:13.42% B:0.76%)
Opponent: 51.61% (G:17.41% B:0.77%)

3. XG Roller++ 22/15 eq:-0.105 (-0.013)
Player: 48.68% (G:11.42% B:0.51%)
Opponent: 51.32% (G:16.60% B:0.56%)

4. XG Roller++ 24/20 13/10 eq:-0.113 (-0.020)
Player: 48.02% (G:12.62% B:0.66%)
Opponent: 51.98% (G:17.06% B:0.74%)

eXtreme Gammon Version: 2.19.211.pre-release

---
Tim Chow

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