Hi all,

Well, I've decided to try another stupid conduct and I need some advice on how to deal with Orcus, as for the first time ever he's possibly the greatest threat in the game.

I'm going for naked, AC10, magic resistant-less, reflection-less. So no protection, armour, or any artifact or amulet that provides reflection/MR.

I've had two Valks complete the quest (one on home computer, one on NAO), clear out the Castle and make it to Orcus before being wiped out. My general plan involved using pets (Archons, wielding Mjollnir and equipped with reflection) to take him out, with a potion of paralysis and ring of free action if needed.

The problem is, before I get in range to do anything he teleports next to me, zaps his wand and if my "oLS saves me, I'm just killed on the rebound before I can put another one on.

What's a good way to deal with Orcus, preferably from a very safe distance? My only other thought is a purple worm and wand of teleport, and to try and teleport it into the same room as him. But is he able to teleport out of a purple worm?

Thanks
Joe

On 14.06.2021 17:46, Joe Casserley wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Well, I've decided to try another stupid conduct and I need some
> advice on how to deal with Orcus, as for the first time ever he's
> possibly the greatest threat in the game.
>
> I'm going for naked, AC10, magic resistant-less, reflection-less. So
> no protection, armour, or any artifact or amulet that provides
> reflection/MR.
>
> I've had two Valks complete the quest (one on home computer, one on
> NAO), clear out the Castle and make it to Orcus before being wiped
> out. My general plan involved using pets (Archons, wielding Mjollnir
> and equipped with reflection) to take him out, with a potion of
> paralysis and ring of free action if needed.
>
> The problem is, before I get in range to do anything he teleports
> next to me, zaps his wand and if my "oLS saves me, I'm just killed on
> the rebound before I can put another one on.
>
> What's a good way to deal with Orcus, preferably from a very safe
> distance? My only other thought is a purple worm and wand of
> teleport, and to try and teleport it into the same room as him.

I suppose a purple worm must be very high level to attack him?
So you'd have to train him in advance.

> But is he able to teleport out of a purple worm?

Not if the worm would swallow him.

Another option: Maybe polyself to a stone resistant monster and
stone him with a wielded c'trice corpse?

Also (if Elbereth or a scroll of scare monster works - not sure
about that in NH-36x) you could keep him scared, then he won't
zap the wand (unless you missed to avoid a distant straight line
of sight. With worn free action the adjacent demon can then be
paralyzed and killed.

Another option might be to bypass that level; dig down on your
way down and use a cursed potion of gain level on your way up.
(Might be cumbersome and require a lot potions in NH because of
the Mysterious Force in Nethack.)

Just a few thoughts.

Janis

On Monday, 14 June 2021 at 19:26:29 UTC+1, Janis wrote:
> On 14.06.2021 17:46, Joe Casserley wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Well, I've decided to try another stupid conduct and I need some
> > advice on how to deal with Orcus, as for the first time ever he's
> > possibly the greatest threat in the game.
> >
> > I'm going for naked, AC10, magic resistant-less, reflection-less. So
> > no protection, armour, or any artifact or amulet that provides
> > reflection/MR.
> >
> > I've had two Valks complete the quest (one on home computer, one on
> > NAO), clear out the Castle and make it to Orcus before being wiped
> > out. My general plan involved using pets (Archons, wielding Mjollnir
> > and equipped with reflection) to take him out, with a potion of
> > paralysis and ring of free action if needed.
> >
> > The problem is, before I get in range to do anything he teleports
> > next to me, zaps his wand and if my "oLS saves me, I'm just killed on
> > the rebound before I can put another one on.
> >
> > What's a good way to deal with Orcus, preferably from a very safe
> > distance? My only other thought is a purple worm and wand of
> > teleport, and to try and teleport it into the same room as him.
> I suppose a purple worm must be very high level to attack him?
> So you'd have to train him in advance.
> > But is he able to teleport out of a purple worm?
> Not if the worm would swallow him.
>
> Another option: Maybe polyself to a stone resistant monster and
> stone him with a wielded c'trice corpse?
>
> Also (if Elbereth or a scroll of scare monster works - not sure
> about that in NH-36x) you could keep him scared, then he won't
> zap the wand (unless you missed to avoid a distant straight line
> of sight. With worn free action the adjacent demon can then be
> paralyzed and killed.
>
> Another option might be to bypass that level; dig down on your
> way down and use a cursed potion of gain level on your way up.
> (Might be cumbersome and require a lot potions in NH because of
> the Mysterious Force in Nethack.)
>
> Just a few thoughts.
>
> Janis

Interesting - I hadn't taken into account that when scared, Orcus won't use a wand attack. This would definitely be the safest option, to stand on the scroll and let a strong pet take him out or paralyze him and then finish him off.

Thank you Janis!

On Monday, June 14, 2021 at 8:46:34 AM UTC-7, rose....@gmail.com wrote:
> The problem is, before I get in range to do anything he teleports
> next to me, zaps his wand and if my "oLS saves me, I'm just killed
> on the rebound before I can put another one on.

He starts on the down stairs. If you enter his level from below, you'll
arrive next to him (maybe displacing him off the stairs, maybe not)
in his room rather than having him come to you in a maze area. So
you might not be lined up to be hit by a zap that rebounds off the
wall behind you. But since the positioning will be random you might
happen to be lined up anyway.

Or you could polymorph into some form of demon or undead. That
will protect against wand of death and won't break reflection-less
(as becoming a silver dragon would) or magic resistance-less (gray
dragon or various other things). But if you insist on maintaining
AC10, I'm not sure whether there are any creatures of the desired
type which would qualify.

Are you wearing a +0 ring of protection? That will keep you at AC10
but give you MC1 instead of naked 0. It won't help against wands
but could help against other stuff. (A second ring of protection
won't give any additional benefit.)

On Monday, June 14, 2021 at 11:46:34 AM UTC-4, rose....@gmail.com wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Well, I've decided to try another stupid conduct and I need some advice on how to deal with Orcus, as for the first time ever he's possibly the greatest threat in the game.
>
> I'm going for naked, AC10, magic resistant-less, reflection-less. So no protection, armour, or any artifact or amulet that provides reflection/MR.
>
> I've had two Valks complete the quest (one on home computer, one on NAO), clear out the Castle and make it to Orcus before being wiped out. My general plan involved using pets (Archons, wielding Mjollnir and equipped with reflection) to take him out, with a potion of paralysis and ring of free action if needed.
>
> The problem is, before I get in range to do anything he teleports next to me, zaps his wand and if my "oLS saves me, I'm just killed on the rebound before I can put another one on.
>
> What's a good way to deal with Orcus, preferably from a very safe distance? My only other thought is a purple worm and wand of teleport, and to try and teleport it into the same room as him. But is he able to teleport out of a purple worm?
>
> Thanks
> Joe

Hallucination. Quaff a potion of it, and wand of death attacks are turned into "out of body" experiences. Yes, having robust pets around to deal with him while you are watching the pretty colors is a good idea. This is what I used when doing a magic-resistance free game when getting to the top of the wizard's tower, and when ascending to the Plane of Earth.

--
-Harold Hill

On Tuesday, June 15, 2021 at 6:39:15 AM UTC-7, Harold Hill wrote:
> On Monday, June 14, 2021 at 11:46:34 AM UTC-4, rose....@gmail.com wrote:
[...]
>> What's a good way to deal with Orcus, preferably from a very safe distance? [...]
>
> Hallucination. Quaff a potion of it, and wand of death attacks are turned into
> "out of body" experiences.

That only works for the "touch of death" spell (which some high level
monsters can cast and affects a single adjacent target). It doesn't work
for wands of death (which shoot a ray affecting a line of locations and
might carom off walls) or "finger of death" spell (which the hero might
cast and operates like the wand zap).