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interests / rec.games.backgammon / Re: Rollout: Six-primed

SubjectAuthor
* Six-primedTimothy Chow
+- Re: Six-primedpeps...@gmail.com
+- Re: Six-primedah...Clem
`* Rollout: Six-primedTimothy Chow
 `* Re: Rollout: Six-primedpeps...@gmail.com
  `* Re: Rollout: Six-primedTimothy Chow
   `- Re: Rollout: Six-primedpeps...@gmail.com

1
Six-primed

<tktcho$1ojts$1@dont-email.me>

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From: tchow12...@yahoo.com (Timothy Chow)
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Subject: Six-primed
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2022 07:32:56 -0500
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Timothy Chow - Mon, 14 Nov 2022 12:32 UTC

XGID=a--BBBBBB------a-bbcbbbBA-:1:1:1:52:0:0:0:0:10

Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
+13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
| O O O | | O O O O X X |
| O O | | O O O O X |
| | | O |
| | | |
| | | |
| |BAR| |
| | O | |
| | | |
| | | | +---+
| X X | | X X X X | | 2 |
| X X | | X X X X | +---+
+12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
Pip count X: 136 O: 107 X-O: 0-0
Cube: 2, X own cube
X to play 52

---
Tim Chow

Re: Six-primed

<64725156-e91d-4c44-b7ac-598ee08e9a01n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: Six-primed
From: pepste...@gmail.com (peps...@gmail.com)
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 by: peps...@gmail.com - Mon, 14 Nov 2022 15:27 UTC

On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 12:32:58 PM UTC, Tim Chow wrote:
> XGID=a--BBBBBB------a-bbcbbbBA-:1:1:1:52:0:0:0:0:10
>
> Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
> +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
> | O O O | | O O O O X X |
> | O O | | O O O O X |
> | | | O |
> | | | |
> | | | |
> | |BAR| |
> | | O | |
> | | | |
> | | | | +---+
> | X X | | X X X X | | 2 |
> | X X | | X X X X | +---+
> +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
> Pip count X: 136 O: 107 X-O: 0-0
> Cube: 2, X own cube
> X to play 52

8/1 seems to have the most potential, in a position where we are clear underdogs.
It preserves as much of our prime as we can. Also, we can get hit on the acepoint and
let the opponent crash while we dance. Or we can play a 1-2 backgame.

Paul

Re: Six-primed

<tl0nc5$247d7$3@dont-email.me>

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From: ah_c...@ymail.com (ah...Clem)
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Subject: Re: Six-primed
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2022 13:55:27 -0500
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: ah...Clem - Tue, 15 Nov 2022 18:55 UTC

On 11/14/2022 7:32 AM, Timothy Chow wrote:
> XGID=a--BBBBBB------a-bbcbbbBA-:1:1:1:52:0:0:0:0:10
>
> Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
>  +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
>  |       O     O  O |   | O  O  O  O  X  X |
>  |             O  O |   | O  O  O  O  X    |
>  |                  |   | O                |
>  |                  |   |                  |
>  |                  |   |                  |
>  |                  |BAR|                  |
>  |                  | O |                  |
>  |                  |   |                  |
>  |                  |   |                  | +---+
>  |             X  X |   | X  X  X  X       | | 2 |
>  |             X  X |   | X  X  X  X       | +---+
>  +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
> Pip count  X: 136  O: 107 X-O: 0-0
> Cube: 2, X own cube
> X to play 52

Would I want a fourth checker back in the hopes of playing a backgame?
Don't think so. Might a checker on the roof cause O to crack before X
does? I think so.

Volunteering a shot may well be correct. But I'll make the safe play and
hope for the best.

8/3 8/6.

Rollout: Six-primed

<tl2tqk$2ccpf$2@dont-email.me>

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From: tchow12...@yahoo.com (Timothy Chow)
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Subject: Rollout: Six-primed
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2022 09:58:28 -0500
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Timothy Chow - Wed, 16 Nov 2022 14:58 UTC

XGID=a--BBBBBB------a-bbcbbbBA-:1:1:1:52:0:0:0:0:10

Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
+13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
| O O O | | O O O O X X |
| O O | | O O O O X |
| | | O |
| | | |
| | | |
| |BAR| |
| | O | |
| | | |
| | | | +---+
| X X | | X X X X | | 2 |
| X X | | X X X X | +---+
+12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
Pip count X: 136 O: 107 X-O: 0-0
Cube: 2, X own cube
X to play 52

Prime-versus-prime problems are often treacherous. Six-primes are
particularly treacherous since you *have* to get your opponent to
crack and you have no "slime vig" so to speak. I think Paul
analyzed this position well. X wants to preserve his prime as long
as possible. The play 8/1 is *not* an attempt to play a backgame;
the point is that if he is hit back on the 1pt, then O will still
have some trouble extricating her straggler, and if X dances then
he delays crunching.

In lieu of variants, I have included two similarly-themed problems
taken from another recent game of mine.

1. Rollout¹ 8/1 eq:-0.876
Player: 17.26% (G:2.39% B:0.09%)
Opponent: 82.74% (G:29.86% B:1.72%)
Confidence: ±0.008 (-0.884..-0.868) - [100.0%]

2. Rollout¹ 7/5 7/2 eq:-0.960 (-0.084)
Player: 14.22% (G:1.17% B:0.04%)
Opponent: 85.78% (G:29.49% B:1.64%)
Confidence: ±0.007 (-0.966..-0.953) - [0.0%]

3. Rollout¹ 8/6 8/3 eq:-0.963 (-0.087)
Player: 12.84% (G:1.09% B:0.03%)
Opponent: 87.16% (G:26.70% B:1.26%)
Confidence: ±0.006 (-0.969..-0.957) - [0.0%]

¹ 1296 Games rolled with Variance Reduction.
Dice Seed: 271828
Moves: 3-ply, cube decisions: XG Roller

eXtreme Gammon Version: 2.19.211.pre-release

-------
Bonus 1
-------

XGID=b--BCCBA-A-aAA----bbbbbbA-:1:1:1:54:0:0:0:0:10

Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
+13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
| X O | | O O O O O X |
| O | | O O O O O |
| | | |
| | | |
| | | |
| |BAR| |
| | O | |
| | O | |
| | | X X | +---+
| | | X X X X | | 2 |
| X O X X | | X X X X | +---+
+12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
Pip count X: 110 O: 118 X-O: 0-0
Cube: 2, X own cube
X to play 54

1. Rollout¹ 12/7 5/1 eq:-0.452
Player: 28.79% (G:7.09% B:0.37%)
Opponent: 71.21% (G:19.85% B:1.27%)
Confidence: ±0.011 (-0.463..-0.441) - [100.0%]

2. Rollout¹ 12/7 9/5 eq:-0.547 (-0.095)
Player: 23.45% (G:5.84% B:0.33%)
Opponent: 76.55% (G:15.48% B:0.70%)
Confidence: ±0.012 (-0.559..-0.536) - [0.0%]

3. Rollout¹ 13/9 12/7 eq:-0.648 (-0.196)
Player: 20.28% (G:3.66% B:0.16%)
Opponent: 79.72% (G:15.65% B:0.69%)
Confidence: ±0.008 (-0.657..-0.640) - [0.0%]

4. Rollout¹ 13/8 12/8 eq:-0.661 (-0.209)
Player: 19.15% (G:3.37% B:0.13%)
Opponent: 80.85% (G:13.98% B:0.67%)
Confidence: ±0.008 (-0.669..-0.653) - [0.0%]

¹ 1296 Games rolled with Variance Reduction.
Dice Seed: 271828
Moves: 3-ply, cube decisions: XG Roller

eXtreme Gammon Version: 2.19.211.pre-release

-------
Bonus 2
-------

XGID=a-aBCCBB-B-a------bbbbbbA-:1:1:1:11:0:0:0:0:10

Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
+13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
| O | | O O O O O X |
| O | | O O O O O |
| | | |
| | | |
| | | |
| |BAR| |
| | O | |
| | | |
| | | X X | +---+
| X X | | X X X X | | 2 |
| O X X | | X X X X O | +---+
+12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
Pip count X: 101 O: 116 X-O: 0-0
Cube: 2, X own cube
X to play 11

1. Rollout¹ 9/8(2) 4/2* eq:-0.409
Player: 28.62% (G:5.96% B:0.21%)
Opponent: 71.38% (G:14.24% B:0.84%)
Confidence: ±0.008 (-0.417..-0.401) - [100.0%]

2. Rollout¹ 9/8(2) 5/3 eq:-0.603 (-0.194)
Player: 21.50% (G:3.84% B:0.15%)
Opponent: 78.50% (G:14.32% B:0.65%)
Confidence: ±0.008 (-0.611..-0.595) - [0.0%]

¹ 1296 Games rolled with Variance Reduction.
Dice Seed: 271828
Moves: 3-ply, cube decisions: XG Roller

eXtreme Gammon Version: 2.19.211.pre-release

---
Tim Chow

Re: Rollout: Six-primed

<a106f190-b0c3-4572-920c-7f1238b8fae3n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: Rollout: Six-primed
From: pepste...@gmail.com (peps...@gmail.com)
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 by: peps...@gmail.com - Wed, 16 Nov 2022 18:54 UTC

On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 2:58:30 PM UTC, Tim Chow wrote:
....I think Paul
> analyzed this position well.
....
>
> In lieu of variants, I have included two similarly-themed problems
> taken from another recent game of mine.
....
Glad I did well here. I'm sure this happens less than 50% of the time
when I answer (but I'm not sure how much less than 50%).

I haven't bothered to google this yet, but isn't the simpler and more
common "instead" to be preferred to "in lieu"?
I think that "in lieu" has a very formal register which doesn't fit the present
context. The only times I can recall seeing this phrase is in the context
of funerals where the death notice says (something like):
"In lieu of flowers, please donate to..."

For example, suppose you finish your backgammon chouette early and head
for the nearest burger joint. [It would have been more efficient to play bg
at the burger place, but the environment there is too noisy, and there aren't
enough free seats.]
If you asked for Coke, wouldn't you be just a tad surprised if your server replied:
"I'm afraid we've run out of that. It is ok if I give you Pepsi in lieu of Coke?"

Paul

Re: Rollout: Six-primed

<tl5ej9$2ljd7$1@dont-email.me>

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From: tchow12...@yahoo.com (Timothy Chow)
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Subject: Re: Rollout: Six-primed
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2022 08:56:57 -0500
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Timothy Chow - Thu, 17 Nov 2022 13:56 UTC

On 11/16/2022 1:54 PM, peps...@gmail.com wrote:
> If you asked for Coke, wouldn't you be just a tad surprised if your server replied:
> "I'm afraid we've run out of that. It is ok if I give you Pepsi in lieu of Coke?"

It would just reinforce the stereotype that the only job
you can get with a Ph.D. in the humanities is flipping burgers.

---
Tim Chow

Re: Rollout: Six-primed

<8f5fd3b4-f8b0-4df7-8794-510271b24bdfn@googlegroups.com>

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 by: peps...@gmail.com - Thu, 17 Nov 2022 15:54 UTC

On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 1:56:59 PM UTC, Tim Chow wrote:
> On 11/16/2022 1:54 PM, peps...@gmail.com wrote:
> > If you asked for Coke, wouldn't you be just a tad surprised if your server replied:
> > "I'm afraid we've run out of that. It is ok if I give you Pepsi in lieu of Coke?"
> It would just reinforce the stereotype that the only job
> you can get with a Ph.D. in the humanities is flipping burgers.

Since I'm a cousin of Diana Paton, I'm unlikely to believe that stereotype.

Paul

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server_pubkey.txt

rocksolid light 0.9.81
clearnet tor