Rocksolid Light

Welcome to novaBBS (click a section below)

mail  files  register  newsreader  groups  login

Message-ID:  

In order to dial out, it is necessary to broaden one's dimension.


interests / rec.games.roguelike.nethack / HP cheat, bug or standard?

SubjectAuthor
* HP cheat, bug or standard?Janis Papanagnou
`* Re: HP cheat, bug or standard?Pat Rankin
 `* Re: HP cheat, bug or standard?Janis Papanagnou
  `* Re: HP cheat, bug or standard?Jukka Lahtinen
   `* Re: HP cheat, bug or standard?Janis Papanagnou
    `- Re: HP cheat, bug or standard?Chris Bowers

1
HP cheat, bug or standard?

<sbsd9f$19o$1@news-1.m-online.net>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=1059&group=rec.games.roguelike.nethack#1059

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!news.mixmin.net!news2.arglkargh.de!news.karotte.org!news.space.net!news.m-online.net!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: janis_pa...@hotmail.com (Janis Papanagnou)
Newsgroups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack
Subject: HP cheat, bug or standard?
Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2021 15:32:31 +0200
Organization: (posted via) M-net Telekommunikations GmbH
Lines: 7
Message-ID: <sbsd9f$19o$1@news-1.m-online.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:a61:241e:cc01:28ff:8d60:b0bf:f2d7
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Trace: news-1.m-online.net 1625405551 1336 2001:a61:241e:cc01:28ff:8d60:b0bf:f2d7 (4 Jul 2021 13:32:31 GMT)
X-Complaints-To: news@news-1.m-online.net
NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2021 13:32:31 +0000 (UTC)
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/45.8.0
X-Mozilla-News-Host: news://news.m-online.net:119
X-Enigmail-Draft-Status: N1110
 by: Janis Papanagnou - Sun, 4 Jul 2021 13:32 UTC

There had been a HP cheat by exploiting a polyself bug in a former
version. On NAO I currently see a character with HP:5315(5320) and
Pw:2913(2913) at Xp:30 (T:~200k). - Is that still that bug or just
normal to achieve in version NH-366? That number looks quite large
considering that pudding farming had been nerfed.

Janis

Re: HP cheat, bug or standard?

<f9cabe31-a377-4921-a03f-0e920bcf3391n@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=1064&group=rec.games.roguelike.nethack#1064

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack
X-Received: by 2002:a37:2e81:: with SMTP id u123mr16448130qkh.24.1625528887968;
Mon, 05 Jul 2021 16:48:07 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:198d:: with SMTP id bm13mr4780873qkb.229.1625528887792;
Mon, 05 Jul 2021 16:48:07 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!proxad.net!feeder1-2.proxad.net!209.85.160.216.MISMATCH!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2021 16:48:07 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <sbsd9f$19o$1@news-1.m-online.net>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=75.51.83.156; posting-account=PWiXPAoAAABrA15ZgKdYDhP2ItsYPeoJ
NNTP-Posting-Host: 75.51.83.156
References: <sbsd9f$19o$1@news-1.m-online.net>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <f9cabe31-a377-4921-a03f-0e920bcf3391n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: HP cheat, bug or standard?
From: r.pat.ra...@gmail.com (Pat Rankin)
Injection-Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2021 23:48:07 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
 by: Pat Rankin - Mon, 5 Jul 2021 23:48 UTC

On Sunday, July 4, 2021 at 6:32:33 AM UTC-7, Janis wrote:
> There had been a HP cheat by exploiting a polyself bug in a former
> version. On NAO I currently see a character with HP:5315(5320) and
> Pw:2913(2913) at Xp:30 (T:~200k). - Is that still that bug or just
> normal to achieve in version NH-366? That number looks quite large
> considering that pudding farming had been nerfed.

That bug was fixed at least two different ways for 3.6.0 but
perhaps those fixes weren't sufficient. Why not review the ttyrec(s)
to see how it was done? You'll probably know by 100000 turns. :-}

Re: HP cheat, bug or standard?

<sc0cao$664$1@news-1.m-online.net>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=1065&group=rec.games.roguelike.nethack#1065

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!news.mixmin.net!news2.arglkargh.de!news.karotte.org!news.space.net!news.m-online.net!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: janis_pa...@hotmail.com (Janis Papanagnou)
Newsgroups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack
Subject: Re: HP cheat, bug or standard?
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2021 03:40:40 +0200
Organization: (posted via) M-net Telekommunikations GmbH
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <sc0cao$664$1@news-1.m-online.net>
References: <sbsd9f$19o$1@news-1.m-online.net>
<f9cabe31-a377-4921-a03f-0e920bcf3391n@googlegroups.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:a61:241e:cc01:3075:34db:f081:d85a
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Trace: news-1.m-online.net 1625535640 6340 2001:a61:241e:cc01:3075:34db:f081:d85a (6 Jul 2021 01:40:40 GMT)
X-Complaints-To: news@news-1.m-online.net
NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2021 01:40:40 +0000 (UTC)
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/45.8.0
X-Enigmail-Draft-Status: N1110
In-Reply-To: <f9cabe31-a377-4921-a03f-0e920bcf3391n@googlegroups.com>
 by: Janis Papanagnou - Tue, 6 Jul 2021 01:40 UTC

On 06.07.2021 01:48, Pat Rankin wrote:
> On Sunday, July 4, 2021 at 6:32:33 AM UTC-7, Janis wrote:
>> There had been a HP cheat by exploiting a polyself bug in a former
>> version. On NAO I currently see a character with HP:5315(5320) and
>> Pw:2913(2913) at Xp:30 (T:~200k). - Is that still that bug or just
>> normal to achieve in version NH-366? That number looks quite large
>> considering that pudding farming had been nerfed.
>
> That bug was fixed at least two different ways for 3.6.0 but
> perhaps those fixes weren't sufficient.

Fixes that don't fix it? - Nice definition of fixed. Avoids hard work.
As [political] principle this is well known also from other areas. :-)

> Why not review the ttyrec(s) to see how it was done?

I'm not so much interested in how to exploit it. I was more interested
to get a feeling how Nethack is developed, where the focus areas are.

> You'll probably know by 100000 turns. :-}

Manual inspection? I seem to recall that there are ttyrec-grep tools;
I suppose using that might simplify matters (for those who care). ;-)

Janis

Re: HP cheat, bug or standard?

<871r8b64c3.fsf@sonera.fi>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=1066&group=rec.games.roguelike.nethack#1066

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!stout.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: jtfjd...@hotmail.com.invalid (Jukka Lahtinen)
Newsgroups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack
Subject: Re: HP cheat, bug or standard?
Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2021 14:59:08 +0300
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <871r8b64c3.fsf@sonera.fi>
References: <sbsd9f$19o$1@news-1.m-online.net>
<f9cabe31-a377-4921-a03f-0e920bcf3391n@googlegroups.com>
<sc0cao$664$1@news-1.m-online.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1";format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Info: stout.eternal-september.org; posting-host="23dad0f9897130d91e2e8ee5ef480aba";
logging-data="16967"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/Y+XB1nsE+0TdqV0qWWpx2"
User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.2 (gnu/linux)
Cancel-Lock: sha1:78lXhBFADrNXVRL+Uv4Xs5Oz+HY=
sha1:CPiKYOGc+FKBcCpr6bSFUXaTabk=
 by: Jukka Lahtinen - Tue, 6 Jul 2021 11:59 UTC

Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou@hotmail.com> writes:
> On 06.07.2021 01:48, Pat Rankin wrote:
>> On Sunday, July 4, 2021 at 6:32:33 AM UTC-7, Janis wrote:

>> That bug was fixed at least two different ways for 3.6.0 but
>> perhaps those fixes weren't sufficient.
>
> Fixes that don't fix it? - Nice definition of fixed. Avoids hard work.
> As [political] principle this is well known also from other areas. :-)

Sometimes a bug is more complex and more obscure than it seems at first.
It may get partly fixed, so that it doesn't present itself in every use
case it did before, but only in some rare cases.
So the developers assume they fixed it, when it actually is only partly
fixed.
Sometimes fixing one bug even enables another bug that was already
there, but hidden by the first bug.
This is SO familiar at work..

--
Jukka Lahtinen

Re: HP cheat, bug or standard?

<sc1ho8$gcf$1@news-1.m-online.net>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=1067&group=rec.games.roguelike.nethack#1067

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!news.mixmin.net!news2.arglkargh.de!news.karotte.org!news.space.net!news.m-online.net!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: janis_pa...@hotmail.com (Janis Papanagnou)
Newsgroups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack
Subject: Re: HP cheat, bug or standard?
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2021 14:19:20 +0200
Organization: (posted via) M-net Telekommunikations GmbH
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <sc1ho8$gcf$1@news-1.m-online.net>
References: <sbsd9f$19o$1@news-1.m-online.net>
<f9cabe31-a377-4921-a03f-0e920bcf3391n@googlegroups.com>
<sc0cao$664$1@news-1.m-online.net> <871r8b64c3.fsf@sonera.fi>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:a61:241e:cc01:3075:34db:f081:d85a
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Trace: news-1.m-online.net 1625573960 16783 2001:a61:241e:cc01:3075:34db:f081:d85a (6 Jul 2021 12:19:20 GMT)
X-Complaints-To: news@news-1.m-online.net
NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2021 12:19:20 +0000 (UTC)
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/45.8.0
X-Enigmail-Draft-Status: N1110
In-Reply-To: <871r8b64c3.fsf@sonera.fi>
 by: Janis Papanagnou - Tue, 6 Jul 2021 12:19 UTC

On 06.07.2021 13:59, Jukka Lahtinen wrote:
> Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou@hotmail.com> writes:
>> On 06.07.2021 01:48, Pat Rankin wrote:
>>> On Sunday, July 4, 2021 at 6:32:33 AM UTC-7, Janis wrote:
>
>>> That bug was fixed at least two different ways for 3.6.0 but
>>> perhaps those fixes weren't sufficient.
>>
>> Fixes that don't fix it? - Nice definition of fixed. Avoids hard work.
>> As [political] principle this is well known also from other areas. :-)
>
> Sometimes a bug is more complex and more obscure than it seems at first.
> It may get partly fixed, so that it doesn't present itself in every use
> case it did before, but only in some rare cases.
> So the developers assume they fixed it, when it actually is only partly
> fixed.
> Sometimes fixing one bug even enables another bug that was already
> there, but hidden by the first bug.
> This is SO familiar at work..

Yes, an indication that a bug is not correctly identified or really
understood. That's why folks should state clearly whether the have
fixed it or just tried to (based on assumptions, educated guesses).

But my comment above was addressing another Real Life related case;
government could not fix the regulative frame to control emission
effectively to the necessary degree, so they changed the law by
adjusting the acceptable emission rate. ("If we cannot fix it then
we allow it." - voila, it's "fixed"!)

Janis

Re: HP cheat, bug or standard?

<91b88a21-80a7-4f2e-88fc-db19f4c759cdn@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=1075&group=rec.games.roguelike.nethack#1075

 copy link   Newsgroups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack
X-Received: by 2002:ac8:13c6:: with SMTP id i6mr3016272qtj.211.1627541413185;
Wed, 28 Jul 2021 23:50:13 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6214:401e:: with SMTP id kd30mr3468293qvb.43.1627541412985;
Wed, 28 Jul 2021 23:50:12 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!news.snarked.org!border2.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2021 23:50:12 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <sc1ho8$gcf$1@news-1.m-online.net>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=2601:155:4280:a1d0:6c55:d238:3399:3922;
posting-account=ss93jwkAAACGXdt3dzOpoJaP-MN9gHYg
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2601:155:4280:a1d0:6c55:d238:3399:3922
References: <sbsd9f$19o$1@news-1.m-online.net> <f9cabe31-a377-4921-a03f-0e920bcf3391n@googlegroups.com>
<sc0cao$664$1@news-1.m-online.net> <871r8b64c3.fsf@sonera.fi> <sc1ho8$gcf$1@news-1.m-online.net>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <91b88a21-80a7-4f2e-88fc-db19f4c759cdn@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: HP cheat, bug or standard?
From: magicbym...@yahoo.com (Chris Bowers)
Injection-Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2021 06:50:13 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Lines: 11
 by: Chris Bowers - Thu, 29 Jul 2021 06:50 UTC

Pudding farming has indeed been nixed, but as others have said, maybe there's a workaround to the "fix". I personally know a high level ADOM player who has discovered bugs and exploits that other people don't know about (and he has sworn me to secrecy to). There are always areas of the game to be explored or which might be discovered by accident. This happens more often in modern games but it can happen in ancient games as well.

Good on the guy who found an exploit. If you look at the ttyrec then you could find out the exploit and have "inside information" that only you and he would know. (But please do tell us? Mwahahaha!)

1
server_pubkey.txt

rocksolid light 0.9.7
clearnet tor