Message-ID:

6 May, 2024: The networking issue during the past two days has been identified and fixed.

interests / rec.games.backgammon / Rollout: What did Kit say about ace-point games?

What did Kit say about ace-point games?

<tltebo$1dijd$5@dont-email.me>

https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=10632&group=rec.games.backgammon#10632

copy link Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon

Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: tchow12...@yahoo.com (Timothy Chow)
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Subject: What did Kit say about ace-point games?
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2022 11:20:10 -0500
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <tltebo$1dijd$5@dont-email.me>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Injection-Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2022 16:20:09 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: reader01.eternal-september.org; posting-host="45c3a0ee328b14c853ec0e0382195010";
logging-data="1493613"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX183jSmrST6XxMbrxyEZWzFc7dOxAVExlQQ="
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/102.5.0
Cancel-Lock: sha1:TNUc4SsEjOwF09abP+NAiuTRLkQ=
Content-Language: en-US

by: Timothy Chow - Sat, 26 Nov 2022 16:20 UTC

XGID=-bCDBBC-A---a-----acbbbb--:1:-1:1:11:0:0:0:0:10

Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
+13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
| O | | O O O O O | +---+
| | | O O O O O | | 2 |
| | | O | +---+
| | | |
| | | |
| |BAR| |
| | | |
| | | X |
| | | X X X |
| | | X X X X X O |
| O X | | X X X X X O |
+12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
Pip count X: 62 O: 114 X-O: 0-0
Cube: 2, O own cube
X to play 11

---
Tim Chow

Re: What did Kit say about ace-point games?

<tltmc8$1ea67$1@dont-email.me>

copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=10635&group=rec.games.backgammon#10635

copy link Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon

Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: ah_c...@ymail.com (ah....Clem)
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Subject: Re: What did Kit say about ace-point games?
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2022 13:36:57 -0500
Organization: The Future Fair
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <tltmc8$1ea67$1@dont-email.me>
References: <tltebo$1dijd$5@dont-email.me>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2022 18:36:57 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: reader01.eternal-september.org; posting-host="40789f1216a74ed8a7be8af65e4d0499";
logging-data="1517767"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/DrMv/uow/t9+tgHvVK3lG"
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/102.4.1
Cancel-Lock: sha1:JiyTQN9iPGl3TIzbxcVhNKZuzw0=
Content-Language: en-US
In-Reply-To: <tltebo$1dijd$5@dont-email.me>

by: ah....Clem - Sat, 26 Nov 2022 18:36 UTC

On 11/26/2022 11:20 AM, Timothy Chow wrote:
> XGID=-bCDBBC-A---a-----acbbbb--:1:-1:1:11:0:0:0:0:10
>
> Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
> +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
> |                O |   | O O O O O    | +---+
> |                  |   | O O O O O    | | 2 |
> |                  |   | O                | +---+
> |                  |   |                  |
> |                  |   |                  |
> |                  |BAR|                  |
> |                  |   |                  |
> |                  |   |          X       |
> |                  |   | X        X X    |
> |                  |   | X X X X X O |
> | O           X    |   | X X X X X O |
> +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
> Pip count X: 62 O: 114 X-O: 0-0
> Cube: 2, O own cube
> X to play 11

I don't know what Kit said, but I describe it as "sitting on the ace
point waiting patiently to lose".

QF says clear the six point now, only giving up 61 to hit and minimizing
later shots. I don't usually do QF, but I'll make an exception here.
Doubt I'd see it OTB.

6/5(2) 6/4

--
Ah....Clem
The future is fun, the future is fair.

Rollout: What did Kit say about ace-point games?

<tm52cc$298ge$1@dont-email.me>

copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=10660&group=rec.games.backgammon#10660

copy link Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon

Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: tchow12...@yahoo.com (Timothy Chow)
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Subject: Rollout: What did Kit say about ace-point games?
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2022 08:44:45 -0500
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 89
Message-ID: <tm52cc$298ge$1@dont-email.me>
References: <tltebo$1dijd$5@dont-email.me>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2022 13:44:44 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: reader01.eternal-september.org; posting-host="685dea209f5d748e38b715a0181ffed3";
logging-data="2400782"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/1/8K3/pouUerAdMgoHZHCkz1O79LiJhQ="
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/102.5.0
Cancel-Lock: sha1:UPRDys812HAQETUlVkFFUKCqljg=
Content-Language: en-US
In-Reply-To: <tltebo$1dijd$5@dont-email.me>

by: Timothy Chow - Tue, 29 Nov 2022 13:44 UTC

XGID=-bCDBBC-A---a-----acbbbb--:1:-1:1:11:0:0:0:0:10

Kit Woolsey is sometimes quoted as saying, "Clear from the rear and
don't ask questions." But in the following article, he makes a more
nuanced claim: "If the resulting position is relatively smooth, clear
from the back and don't ask any questions."

https://bkgm.com/articles/Woolsey/AcePoint-DoYouKnowYourAcePoint/

In the same article, he also gives examples of clearing the 5pt when
you still haven't cleared the 6pt. How smooth the position is an
important consideration. Here, clearing from the rear with 8/5 6/5
leaves a somewhat awkward "valley" on the 4pt, which could lead to
blotting with 4's later.

In Robertie's "501" book, he gives a position where he claims that
it's right to clear the 5pt. But modern bots don't agree. Again,
the smoothness of the position has to be considered.

1. Rollout¹ 8/6 5/4(2) eq:+0.878
Player: 89.33% (G:12.58% B:0.27%)
Opponent: 10.67% (G:0.00% B:0.00%)
Confidence: ±0.003 (+0.875..+0.881) - [100.0%]

2. Rollout¹ 8/5 6/5 eq:+0.832 (-0.045)
Player: 86.68% (G:14.02% B:0.45%)
Opponent: 13.32% (G:0.00% B:0.00%)
Confidence: ±0.004 (+0.829..+0.836) - [0.0%]

¹ 1296 Games rolled with Variance Reduction.
Dice Seed: 271828
Moves: 3-ply, cube decisions: XG Roller

eXtreme Gammon Version: 2.19.211.pre-release

-------------------
Robertie 323 of 501
-------------------

XGID=-bDBCBDaa-------abbbbb----:1:-1:1:31:0:0:0:0:10

Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
+13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
| O O O | | O O O | +---+
| O O | | O O O | | 2 |
| | | | +---+
| | | |
| | | |
| |BAR| |
| | | |
| | | X X |
| | | X X X |
| | | X X X X X O |
| O O | | X X X X X O |
+12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
Pip count X: 60 O: 152 X-O: 0-0
Cube: 2, O own cube
X to play 31

1. XG Roller++ 6/5 6/3 eq:+1.002
Player: 78.63% (G:45.56% B:5.04%)
Opponent: 21.37% (G:0.00% B:0.00%)

2. XG Roller++ 5/4 5/2 eq:+0.974 (-0.028)
Player: 79.04% (G:42.35% B:4.17%)
Opponent: 20.96% (G:0.00% B:0.00%)

eXtreme Gammon Version: 2.19.211.pre-release

---
Tim Chow

Subject	Author
What did Kit say about ace-point games?	Timothy Chow
Re: What did Kit say about ace-point games?	ah....Clem
Rollout: What did Kit say about ace-point games?	Timothy Chow