Rocksolid Light

Welcome to novaBBS (click a section below)

mail  files  register  newsreader  groups  login

Message-ID:  

6 May, 2024: The networking issue during the past two days has been identified and fixed.

interests / rec.games.backgammon / PoH?

SubjectAuthor
* PoH?Timothy Chow
+- Re: PoH?Axel Reichert
+* Re: PoH?ah....Clem
|`- Re: PoH?Axel Reichert
`- Rollout: PoH?Timothy Chow

1
PoH?

<tnckit$2q631$3@dont-email.me>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=10799&group=rec.games.backgammon#10799

  copy link   Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: tchow12...@yahoo.com (Timothy Chow)
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Subject: PoH?
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2022 08:54:38 -0500
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <tnckit$2q631$3@dont-email.me>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Injection-Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2022 13:54:38 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: reader01.eternal-september.org; posting-host="81427fbd9cb31591e9c408ba1fb93d2b";
logging-data="2955361"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1+vZDcEaEiJ2sT9GczbcMP18fRG6krfkUQ="
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/102.5.1
Cancel-Lock: sha1:jZ7q+PUXoJFvl7/YMcyt1viEj7E=
Content-Language: en-US
 by: Timothy Chow - Wed, 14 Dec 2022 13:54 UTC

XGID=--a-bCDB-a--dC--Ab-c-bAA--:0:0:1:53:0:0:0:0:10

Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
+13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
| X X O | | O O X X |
| X O | | O O |
| X | | O |
| | | |
| | | |
| |BAR| |
| | | |
| O | | X |
| O | | X X |
| O X | | X X O |
| O O X | | X X O O |
+12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
Pip count X: 153 O: 175 X-O: 0-0
Cube: 1
X to play 53

---
Tim Chow

Re: PoH?

<875yed69iz.fsf@axel-reichert.de>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=10801&group=rec.games.backgammon#10801

  copy link   Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: mai...@axel-reichert.de (Axel Reichert)
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Subject: Re: PoH?
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2022 21:00:04 +0100
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <875yed69iz.fsf@axel-reichert.de>
References: <tnckit$2q631$3@dont-email.me>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Injection-Info: reader01.eternal-september.org; posting-host="29e1fd9e4834588eb0803db921bbd5ed";
logging-data="3014170"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/RJQExp5PZbGdTF5C0EzneJ7vJjYeKSqo="
User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.1 (gnu/linux)
Cancel-Lock: sha1:KPerOL2ybpHa9eFdbE6kKhYBsfw=
sha1:IpWDq3HeSCj/J0qKP5TotziBS6w=
 by: Axel Reichert - Wed, 14 Dec 2022 20:00 UTC

Timothy Chow <tchow12000@yahoo.com> writes:

> XGID=--a-bCDB-a--dC--Ab-c-bAA--:0:0:1:53:0:0:0:0:10
>
> Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
> +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
> | X X O | | O O X X |
> | X O | | O O |
> | X | | O |
> | | | |
> | | | |
> | |BAR| |
> | | | |
> | O | | X |
> | O | | X X |
> | O X | | X X O |
> | O O X | | X X O O |
> +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
> Pip count X: 153 O: 175 X-O: 0-0
> Cube: 1
> X to play 53

PoH, please. Saving the blot seems lame, and after the hit there are
chances to pick up a second blot, remake the bar point or make the 16
point.

Best regards

Axel

Re: PoH?

<tngg9o$36p6l$1@dont-email.me>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=10815&group=rec.games.backgammon#10815

  copy link   Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: ah_c...@ymail.com (ah....Clem)
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Subject: Re: PoH?
Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2022 20:05:59 -0500
Organization: The Future Fair
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <tngg9o$36p6l$1@dont-email.me>
References: <tnckit$2q631$3@dont-email.me>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2022 01:06:00 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: reader01.eternal-september.org; posting-host="030859baffa736250cadbdf54eb8c341";
logging-data="3368149"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/811/6W8wuKNhV4Aeyaiyq"
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/102.5.1
Cancel-Lock: sha1:UXlzlmCfVI93biweYciPx/tyq2s=
In-Reply-To: <tnckit$2q631$3@dont-email.me>
Content-Language: en-US
 by: ah....Clem - Fri, 16 Dec 2022 01:05 UTC

On 12/14/2022 8:54 AM, Timothy Chow wrote:
> XGID=--a-bCDB-a--dC--Ab-c-bAA--:0:0:1:53:0:0:0:0:10
>
> Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
>  +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
>  | X        X  O    |   | O     O  X  X    |
>  | X           O    |   | O     O          |
>  | X                |   | O                |
>  |                  |   |                  |
>  |                  |   |                  |
>  |                  |BAR|                  |
>  |                  |   |                  |
>  | O                |   | X                |
>  | O                |   | X  X             |
>  | O              X |   | X  X  O          |
>  | O        O     X |   | X  X  O     O    |
>  +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
> Pip count  X: 153  O: 175 X-O: 0-0
> Cube: 1
> X to play 53

Often keeping the solid prime, even a small one, in front of the runners
is better than breaking it to hit. Is that true here? Not sure.

But I'll keep the eight point, safety the blot on the 16, and step up to
the bar point with the straggler. X is ahead in the race, so play to race.

--
Ah....Clem
The future is fun, the future is fair.

Re: PoH?

<87h6xv4yjk.fsf@axel-reichert.de>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=10817&group=rec.games.backgammon#10817

  copy link   Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: mai...@axel-reichert.de (Axel Reichert)
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Subject: Re: PoH?
Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2022 08:07:11 +0100
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <87h6xv4yjk.fsf@axel-reichert.de>
References: <tnckit$2q631$3@dont-email.me> <tngg9o$36p6l$1@dont-email.me>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Injection-Info: reader01.eternal-september.org; posting-host="602d6118d544f6f2719243ea688a8234";
logging-data="3505379"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX18nwQBwnQ9tqMS4d6cRsA7SGP2VyJ1FtbU="
User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.1 (gnu/linux)
Cancel-Lock: sha1:ck/Iiq4wTlLtjSdWMyuA/iAYHx8=
sha1:u6pHR9LnN06kkcZ4iYmSo5shrcg=
 by: Axel Reichert - Fri, 16 Dec 2022 07:07 UTC

"ah....Clem" <ah_clem@ymail.com> writes:

> Often keeping the solid prime, even a small one, in front of the
> runners is better than breaking it to hit.

Agreed, and I often use it as guidance when pondering an open hit. But
here it is not an open hit, but rather a point on head, and for that
matter an inner point. For me, this trumps the prime considerations. And
we do not want to prime the opponent with 20 pips ahead. We rather want
to escape the back checkers safely, which will not be easy, and thus the
additional tempo gained by the hit (and perhaps additional further
dancing by the opponent) will help quite a bit.

Best regards

Axel

Rollout: PoH?

<tni1mr$3d4pn$1@dont-email.me>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=10818&group=rec.games.backgammon#10818

  copy link   Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: tchow12...@yahoo.com (Timothy Chow)
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Subject: Rollout: PoH?
Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2022 10:09:13 -0500
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 85
Message-ID: <tni1mr$3d4pn$1@dont-email.me>
References: <tnckit$2q631$3@dont-email.me>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2022 15:09:15 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: reader01.eternal-september.org; posting-host="38be0574c9c3e7efbebaf9128a2c6044";
logging-data="3576631"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX186DeIRJ896+KugJnj2nNwxXRGVwQcH31g="
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/102.5.1
Cancel-Lock: sha1:2rOfeL2D9pDiaz2VXOhFsvaG3NE=
In-Reply-To: <tnckit$2q631$3@dont-email.me>
Content-Language: en-US
 by: Timothy Chow - Fri, 16 Dec 2022 15:09 UTC

XGID=--a-bCDB-a--dC--Ab-c-bAA--:0:0:1:53:0:0:0:0:10

Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
+13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
| X X O | | O O X X |
| X O | | O O |
| X | | O |
| | | |
| | | |
| |BAR| |
| | | |
| O | | X |
| O | | X X |
| O X | | X X O |
| O O X | | X X O O |
+12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
Pip count X: 153 O: 175 X-O: 0-0
Cube: 1
X to play 53

PoH is less effective if the opponent already has an advanced anchor.
But it has to be weighed against the alternative. The alternative of
23/18 16/13 leaves X's stragglers fairly vulnerable to attack, and of
course does not gain the tempo that PoH gains. According to the rollout
below, 23/18 16/13 is a whopper. But see also the variant below, where
the rollout says that top two plays are practically tied.

1. Rollout¹ 7/2* 5/2 eq:+0.232
Player: 53.68% (G:20.82% B:0.75%)
Opponent: 46.32% (G:12.17% B:0.57%)
Confidence: ±0.018 (+0.214..+0.250) - [100.0%]

2. Rollout¹ 23/18 16/13 eq:+0.120 (-0.112)
Player: 52.43% (G:16.73% B:0.63%)
Opponent: 47.57% (G:13.26% B:0.56%)
Confidence: ±0.016 (+0.104..+0.136) - [0.0%]

¹ 1296 Games rolled with Variance Reduction.
Dice Seed: 271828
Moves: 3-ply, cube decisions: XG Roller

eXtreme Gammon Version: 2.19.211.pre-release

-------
Variant
-------

XGID=--a-bCDB-a--dC--Ab-c-b-AA-:0:0:1:53:0:0:0:0:10

Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
+13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
| X X O | | O O X X |
| X O | | O O |
| X | | O |
| | | |
| | | |
| |BAR| |
| | | |
| O | | X |
| O | | X X |
| O X | | X X O |
| O O X | | X X O O |
+12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
Pip count X: 155 O: 175 X-O: 0-0
Cube: 1
X to play 53

1. Rollout¹ 7/2* 5/2 eq:+0.145
Player: 52.27% (G:19.90% B:0.66%)
Opponent: 47.73% (G:13.06% B:0.74%)
Confidence: ±0.012 (+0.134..+0.157) - [78.1%]

2. Rollout¹ 23/18 16/13 eq:+0.139 (-0.006)
Player: 52.80% (G:16.51% B:0.79%)
Opponent: 47.20% (G:12.50% B:0.49%)
Confidence: ±0.012 (+0.127..+0.150) - [21.9%]

¹ 2592 Games rolled with Variance Reduction.
Dice Seed: 271828
Moves: 3-ply, cube decisions: XG Roller

eXtreme Gammon Version: 2.19.211.pre-release

---
Tim Chow

1
server_pubkey.txt

rocksolid light 0.9.81
clearnet tor