Rocksolid Light

Welcome to novaBBS (click a section below)

mail  files  register  newsreader  groups  login

Message-ID:  

6 May, 2024: The networking issue during the past two days has been identified and appears to be fixed. Will keep monitoring.

interests / rec.games.backgammon / Blitz versus prime cube action 2

SubjectAuthor
* Blitz versus prime cube action 2Timothy Chow
+- Re: Blitz versus prime cube action 2peps...@gmail.com
+- Re: Blitz versus prime cube action 2ah....Clem
`* Rollout: Blitz versus prime cube action 2Timothy Chow
 `- Re: Rollout: Blitz versus prime cube action 2peps...@gmail.com

1
Blitz versus prime cube action 2

<touscm$1q3dj$5@dont-email.me>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=11012&group=rec.games.backgammon#11012

  copy link   Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: tchow12...@yahoo.com (Timothy Chow)
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Subject: Blitz versus prime cube action 2
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2023 10:14:30 -0500
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <touscm$1q3dj$5@dont-email.me>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Injection-Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2023 15:14:30 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: reader01.eternal-september.org; posting-host="43a2ddb9397d7ce661f551860f616d4b";
logging-data="1904051"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX187r2y1OgoxJ9VJA1kX7Z0E/VHl8D9w3tU="
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/102.6.1
Cancel-Lock: sha1:cVXXUHiaplBTtwWE2BBBqErSlfg=
Content-Language: en-US
 by: Timothy Chow - Mon, 2 Jan 2023 15:14 UTC

XGID=bB-EB-D------A---bbcbbA-b-:1:1:1:00:0:0:0:0:10

Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
+13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
| X O O | | O O O X O |
| O O | | O O O O |
| | | O |
| | | |
| | | |
| |BAR| |
| | O | X |
| | O | X X |
| | | X X | +---+
| | | X X X X | | 2 |
| | | X X X X | +---+
+12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
Pip count X: 84 O: 118 X-O: 0-0
Cube: 2, X own cube
X on roll, cube action

---
Tim Chow

Re: Blitz versus prime cube action 2

<4087cd02-9727-48a4-bebb-b79780f6b1acn@googlegroups.com>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=11013&group=rec.games.backgammon#11013

  copy link   Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:2b8b:b0:6fc:a03e:fcdf with SMTP id dz11-20020a05620a2b8b00b006fca03efcdfmr1065748qkb.139.1672687957979;
Mon, 02 Jan 2023 11:32:37 -0800 (PST)
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6808:4085:b0:35b:f345:7fb4 with SMTP id
db5-20020a056808408500b0035bf3457fb4mr1442883oib.210.1672687957703; Mon, 02
Jan 2023 11:32:37 -0800 (PST)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!feed1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer01.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2023 11:32:37 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <touscm$1q3dj$5@dont-email.me>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=217.155.59.144; posting-account=X1j9wgoAAADLt4UnZrIneT3jwl9HvLMd
NNTP-Posting-Host: 217.155.59.144
References: <touscm$1q3dj$5@dont-email.me>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <4087cd02-9727-48a4-bebb-b79780f6b1acn@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Blitz versus prime cube action 2
From: pepste...@gmail.com (peps...@gmail.com)
Injection-Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2023 19:32:37 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
X-Received-Bytes: 2542
 by: peps...@gmail.com - Mon, 2 Jan 2023 19:32 UTC

On Monday, January 2, 2023 at 3:14:32 PM UTC, Tim Chow wrote:
> XGID=bB-EB-D------A---bbcbbA-b-:1:1:1:00:0:0:0:0:10
>
> Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
> +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
> | X O O | | O O O X O |
> | O O | | O O O O |
> | | | O |
> | | | |
> | | | |
> | |BAR| |
> | | O | X |
> | | O | X X |
> | | | X X | +---+
> | | | X X X X | | 2 |
> | | | X X X X | +---+
> +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
> Pip count X: 84 O: 118 X-O: 0-0
> Cube: 2, X own cube
> X on roll, cube action
>
> ---
> Tim Chow
This is a tough one. I don't think it's TG with being trapped behind a 5 prime and having a somewhat porous
board. Huge double for sure, but is it a pass or a take?
I think it's a pass. We hope to attack the opponent's checkers when they enter. And two on the bar with four away
from the inner board give us gammon chances.
I don't think our winning chances are above 75% but our gammon chances lead me to think it's a pass.
No confidence though.

I seem to remember a John Pilger film campaigning for nuclear disarmament where two of the principals
are enacting a war-game scenario and the dialogue is something like:
"Confidence high?"
"My confidence is high. Is your confidence high?"
"Yes, confidence high."
I'll try and find out more by googling.

Anyway, my confidence is anything but high. Super super low.
But I will go with D/P.

Paul

Re: Blitz versus prime cube action 2

<tp25di$27h4k$1@dont-email.me>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=11021&group=rec.games.backgammon#11021

  copy link   Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: ah_c...@ymail.com (ah....Clem)
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Subject: Re: Blitz versus prime cube action 2
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2023 16:06:57 -0500
Organization: The Future Fair
Lines: 37
Message-ID: <tp25di$27h4k$1@dont-email.me>
References: <touscm$1q3dj$5@dont-email.me>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2023 21:06:59 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: reader01.eternal-september.org; posting-host="394849716aba3eb73631587c37adb9ce";
logging-data="2344084"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX18kdbSLN+HZRfk/I+2SxyBn"
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/102.6.1
Cancel-Lock: sha1:h6q3hWe7ieNzOCzlC8DKG9r2BGA=
Content-Language: en-US
In-Reply-To: <touscm$1q3dj$5@dont-email.me>
 by: ah....Clem - Tue, 3 Jan 2023 21:06 UTC

On 1/2/2023 10:14 AM, Timothy Chow wrote:
> XGID=bB-EB-D------A---bbcbbA-b-:1:1:1:00:0:0:0:0:10
>
> Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
>  +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
>  | X           O  O |   | O  O  O  X     O |
>  |             O  O |   | O  O  O        O |
>  |                  |   | O                |
>  |                  |   |                  |
>  |                  |   |                  |
>  |                  |BAR|                  |
>  |                  | O |          X       |
>  |                  | O | X        X       |
>  |                  |   | X        X       | +---+
>  |                  |   | X     X  X     X | | 2 |
>  |                  |   | X     X  X     X | +---+
>  +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
> Pip count  X: 84  O: 118 X-O: 0-0
> Cube: 2, X own cube
> X on roll, cube action

O loses a fair amount of gammons here, but X needs a six and fairly
soon. Also, X may be forced to leave a shot in his homeboard and if O
sends a second checker back X is in trouble.

I'll say ship it due to the 11 immediate market losers. Don't think it's
TG since five primes can be very resilient. Not sure about the take
decision, but I'll say take since X's structure is so poor and O may own
the outfield in a few rolls.

RD/T.

--
Ah....Clem
The future is fun, the future is fair.

Rollout: Blitz versus prime cube action 2

<tp3s8t$2fk29$1@dont-email.me>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=11028&group=rec.games.backgammon#11028

  copy link   Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: tchow12...@yahoo.com (Timothy Chow)
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Subject: Rollout: Blitz versus prime cube action 2
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2023 07:43:09 -0500
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 105
Message-ID: <tp3s8t$2fk29$1@dont-email.me>
References: <touscm$1q3dj$5@dont-email.me>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2023 12:43:09 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: reader01.eternal-september.org; posting-host="fc57c15b2d0badc4669f2e5ef163fe79";
logging-data="2609225"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1+g4DS1KvxZAFb5Id9xiV5imErvv8nac4Q="
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/102.6.1
Cancel-Lock: sha1:drftZnC+MVs5vGvtx3/ppSq2dgE=
In-Reply-To: <touscm$1q3dj$5@dont-email.me>
Content-Language: en-US
 by: Timothy Chow - Wed, 4 Jan 2023 12:43 UTC

XGID=bB-EB-D------A---bbcbbA-b-:1:1:1:00:0:0:0:0:10

Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
+13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
| X O O | | O O O X O |
| O O | | O O O O |
| | | O |
| | | |
| | | |
| |BAR| |
| | O | X |
| | O | X X |
| | | X X | +---+
| | | X X X X | | 2 |
| | | X X X X | +---+
+12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
Pip count X: 84 O: 118 X-O: 0-0
Cube: 2, X own cube
X on roll, cube action

O is certainly in some trouble here, with two checkers on the bar
against a four-point board, and two dead checkers on her 1pt. Her
main hope lies in her superior structure---she has a five-prime of
course, but X also has three semi-dead checkers on his 3pt. X may
collapse if he can't leap the five-prime, or even if he does leap,
the win isn't guaranteed---it's not so easy for him to close out O,
and if O enters quickly then O might hit a blot.

According to the rollout, this is a RD/T. In the variant, I have
moved a spare from X's 3pt to his 6pt; this rolls out to a pass.

Analyzed in Rollout
No redouble
Player Winning Chances: 68.96% (G:20.60% B:0.20%)
Opponent Winning Chances: 31.04% (G:4.39% B:0.16%)
Redouble/Take
Player Winning Chances: 69.11% (G:20.75% B:0.21%)
Opponent Winning Chances: 30.89% (G:4.33% B:0.16%)

Cubeful Equities:
No redouble: +0.716 (-0.135)
Redouble/Take: +0.851
Redouble/Pass: +1.000 (+0.149)

Best Cube action: Redouble / Take

Rollout:
1296 Games rolled with Variance Reduction.
Dice Seed: 271828
Moves: 3-ply, cube decisions: XG Roller
Confidence No Double: ± 0.010 (+0.706..+0.727)
Confidence Double: ± 0.014 (+0.837..+0.865)

eXtreme Gammon Version: 2.19.211.pre-release

-------
Variant
-------

XGID=bB-DB-E------A---bbcbbA-b-:1:1:1:00:0:0:0:0:10

Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
+13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
| X O O | | O O O X O |
| O O | | O O O O |
| | | O |
| | | |
| | | |
| |BAR| |
| | O | X |
| | O | X X |
| | | X X | +---+
| | | X X X X | | 2 |
| | | X X X X | +---+
+12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
Pip count X: 87 O: 118 X-O: 0-0
Cube: 2, X own cube
X on roll, cube action

Analyzed in Rollout
No redouble
Player Winning Chances: 71.41% (G:23.00% B:0.27%)
Opponent Winning Chances: 28.59% (G:3.65% B:0.12%)
Redouble/Take
Player Winning Chances: 71.73% (G:23.00% B:0.27%)
Opponent Winning Chances: 28.27% (G:3.61% B:0.12%)

Cubeful Equities:
No redouble: +0.825 (-0.175)
Redouble/Take: +1.044 (+0.044)
Redouble/Pass: +1.000

Best Cube action: Redouble / Pass

Rollout:
1296 Games rolled with Variance Reduction.
Dice Seed: 271828
Moves: 3-ply, cube decisions: XG Roller
Confidence No Double: ± 0.007 (+0.818..+0.832)
Confidence Double: ± 0.011 (+1.033..+1.056)

eXtreme Gammon Version: 2.19.211.pre-release

---
Tim Chow

Re: Rollout: Blitz versus prime cube action 2

<cbb5b0c6-6d85-4f8d-8b32-60f1f0207f93n@googlegroups.com>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=11032&group=rec.games.backgammon#11032

  copy link   Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
X-Received: by 2002:ac8:7cb2:0:b0:3a9:86cd:8b85 with SMTP id z18-20020ac87cb2000000b003a986cd8b85mr2047865qtv.147.1672857689021;
Wed, 04 Jan 2023 10:41:29 -0800 (PST)
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6830:3156:b0:670:6329:4224 with SMTP id
c22-20020a056830315600b0067063294224mr2776133ots.199.1672857688753; Wed, 04
Jan 2023 10:41:28 -0800 (PST)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!feed1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer03.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2023 10:41:28 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <tp3s8t$2fk29$1@dont-email.me>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=217.155.59.144; posting-account=X1j9wgoAAADLt4UnZrIneT3jwl9HvLMd
NNTP-Posting-Host: 217.155.59.144
References: <touscm$1q3dj$5@dont-email.me> <tp3s8t$2fk29$1@dont-email.me>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <cbb5b0c6-6d85-4f8d-8b32-60f1f0207f93n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Rollout: Blitz versus prime cube action 2
From: pepste...@gmail.com (peps...@gmail.com)
Injection-Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2023 18:41:29 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Received-Bytes: 4669
 by: peps...@gmail.com - Wed, 4 Jan 2023 18:41 UTC

On Wednesday, January 4, 2023 at 12:43:11 PM UTC, Tim Chow wrote:
> XGID=bB-EB-D------A---bbcbbA-b-:1:1:1:00:0:0:0:0:10
>
> Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
> +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
> | X O O | | O O O X O |
> | O O | | O O O O |
> | | | O |
> | | | |
> | | | |
> | |BAR| |
> | | O | X |
> | | O | X X |
> | | | X X | +---+
> | | | X X X X | | 2 |
> | | | X X X X | +---+
> +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
> Pip count X: 84 O: 118 X-O: 0-0
> Cube: 2, X own cube
> X on roll, cube action
> O is certainly in some trouble here, with two checkers on the bar
> against a four-point board, and two dead checkers on her 1pt. Her
> main hope lies in her superior structure---she has a five-prime of
> course, but X also has three semi-dead checkers on his 3pt. X may
> collapse if he can't leap the five-prime, or even if he does leap,
> the win isn't guaranteed---it's not so easy for him to close out O,
> and if O enters quickly then O might hit a blot.
>
> According to the rollout, this is a RD/T. In the variant, I have
> moved a spare from X's 3pt to his 6pt; this rolls out to a pass.
>
> Analyzed in Rollout
> No redouble
> Player Winning Chances: 68.96% (G:20.60% B:0.20%)
> Opponent Winning Chances: 31.04% (G:4.39% B:0.16%)
> Redouble/Take
> Player Winning Chances: 69.11% (G:20.75% B:0.21%)
> Opponent Winning Chances: 30.89% (G:4.33% B:0.16%)
>
> Cubeful Equities:
> No redouble: +0.716 (-0.135)
> Redouble/Take: +0.851
> Redouble/Pass: +1.000 (+0.149)
>
> Best Cube action: Redouble / Take
>
> Rollout:
> 1296 Games rolled with Variance Reduction.
> Dice Seed: 271828
> Moves: 3-ply, cube decisions: XG Roller
> Confidence No Double: ± 0.010 (+0.706..+0.727)
> Confidence Double: ± 0.014 (+0.837..+0.865)
>
> eXtreme Gammon Version: 2.19.211.pre-release
>
> -------
> Variant
> -------
>
> XGID=bB-DB-E------A---bbcbbA-b-:1:1:1:00:0:0:0:0:10
> Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
> +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
> | X O O | | O O O X O |
> | O O | | O O O O |
> | | | O |
> | | | |
> | | | |
> | |BAR| |
> | | O | X |
> | | O | X X |
> | | | X X | +---+
> | | | X X X X | | 2 |
> | | | X X X X | +---+
> +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
> Pip count X: 87 O: 118 X-O: 0-0
> Cube: 2, X own cube
> X on roll, cube action
> Analyzed in Rollout
> No redouble
> Player Winning Chances: 71.41% (G:23.00% B:0.27%)
> Opponent Winning Chances: 28.59% (G:3.65% B:0.12%)
> Redouble/Take
> Player Winning Chances: 71.73% (G:23.00% B:0.27%)
> Opponent Winning Chances: 28.27% (G:3.61% B:0.12%)
>
> Cubeful Equities:
> No redouble: +0.825 (-0.175)
> Redouble/Take: +1.044 (+0.044)
> Redouble/Pass: +1.000
>
> Best Cube action: Redouble / Pass
>
> Rollout:
> 1296 Games rolled with Variance Reduction.
> Dice Seed: 271828
> Moves: 3-ply, cube decisions: XG Roller
> Confidence No Double: ± 0.007 (+0.818..+0.832)
> Confidence Double: ± 0.011 (+1.033..+1.056)
>
> eXtreme Gammon Version: 2.19.211.pre-release
>
> ---
> Tim Chow

As often, I like the way ah..Clem thought about the position.
He seems more or less spot on.

Paul

1
server_pubkey.txt

rocksolid light 0.9.81
clearnet tor