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interests / rec.games.backgammon / O wins the "ugly board prize"

SubjectAuthor
* O wins the "ugly board prize"Timothy Chow
+* Re: O wins the "ugly board prize"ah....Clem
|+* Re: O wins the "ugly board prize"Stick Rice
||`* Re: O wins the "ugly board prize"Timothy Chow
|| `* Re: O wins the "ugly board prize"peps...@gmail.com
||  `- Re: O wins the "ugly board prize"Timothy Chow
|`- Re: O wins the "ugly board prize"peps...@gmail.com
`- Rollout: O wins the "ugly board prize"Timothy Chow

1
O wins the "ugly board prize"

<tp3sdj$2fk29$2@dont-email.me>

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From: tchow12...@yahoo.com (Timothy Chow)
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Subject: O wins the "ugly board prize"
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2023 07:45:39 -0500
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Timothy Chow - Wed, 4 Jan 2023 12:45 UTC

XGID=--Ba-bC-EC---B-------aeae-:1:-1:1:64:0:0:0:0:10

Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
+13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
| X | | O O O O | +---+
| X | | O O | | 2 |
| | | O O | +---+
| | | O O |
| | | O O |
| |BAR| |
| X | | |
| X | | |
| X X | | X |
| X X | | X O X |
| X X | | X O O X |
+12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
Pip count X: 115 O: 88 X-O: 0-0
Cube: 2, O own cube
X to play 64

---
Tim Chow

Re: O wins the "ugly board prize"

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From: ah_c...@ymail.com (ah....Clem)
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Subject: Re: O wins the "ugly board prize"
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2023 13:37:38 -0500
Organization: The Future Fair
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 by: ah....Clem - Wed, 4 Jan 2023 18:37 UTC

On 1/4/2023 7:45 AM, Timothy Chow wrote:
> XGID=--Ba-bC-EC---B-------aeae-:1:-1:1:64:0:0:0:0:10
>
> Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
>  +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-
>  | X                |   |       O  O  O  O | +---+
>  | X                |   |          O     O | | 2 |
>  |                  |   |          O     O | +---+
>  |                  |   |          O     O |
>  |                  |   |          O     O |
>  |                  |BAR|                  |
>  |             X    |   |                  |
>  |             X    |   |                  |
>  |          X  X    |   | X                |
>  |          X  X    |   | X  O        X    |
>  |          X  X    |   | X  O     O  X    |
>  +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
> Pip count  X: 115  O: 88 X-O: 0-0
> Cube: 2, O own cube
> X to play 64

X is behind in the race and if O can slide past X's checkers she'll have
a strong recube, perhaps a pass. To prevent that I'll hit loose on the
three point, then the question becomes how to play the four.

Banana split? Sure. O has no board so recirculating checkers should help
X even if he doesn't pick up one of the blots on the way. If O fails to
hit, X should be able to cover at least one of the slotted points. And I
think keeping the midpoint is better than 13/9 since X wants to increase
contact.

9/3* 8/4.

--
Ah....Clem
The future is fun, the future is fair.

Re: O wins the "ugly board prize"

<6caee943-344b-4d14-9abc-bd4d93415d4bn@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: O wins the "ugly board prize"
From: bananabo...@gmail.com (Stick Rice)
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 by: Stick Rice - Wed, 4 Jan 2023 19:17 UTC

On Wednesday, January 4, 2023 at 1:37:40 PM UTC-5, ah....Clem wrote:
> On 1/4/2023 7:45 AM, Timothy Chow wrote:
> > XGID=--Ba-bC-EC---B-------aeae-:1:-1:1:64:0:0:0:0:10
> >
> > Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
> > +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-
> > | X | | O O O O | +---+
> > | X | | O O | | 2 |
> > | | | O O | +---+
> > | | | O O |
> > | | | O O |
> > | |BAR| |
> > | X | | |
> > | X | | |
> > | X X | | X |
> > | X X | | X O X |
> > | X X | | X O O X |
> > +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
> > Pip count X: 115 O: 88 X-O: 0-0
> > Cube: 2, O own cube
> > X to play 64
> X is behind in the race and if O can slide past X's checkers she'll have
> a strong recube, perhaps a pass. To prevent that I'll hit loose on the
> three point, then the question becomes how to play the four.
>
> Banana split? Sure. O has no board so recirculating checkers should help
> X even if he doesn't pick up one of the blots on the way. If O fails to
> hit, X should be able to cover at least one of the slotted points. And I
> think keeping the midpoint is better than 13/9 since X wants to increase
> contact.
>
> 9/3* 8/4.
>
> --
> Ah....Clem
> The future is fun, the future is fair.

That is not what a banana split play is.

Stick

Re: O wins the "ugly board prize"

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Subject: Re: O wins the "ugly board prize"
From: pepste...@gmail.com (peps...@gmail.com)
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 by: peps...@gmail.com - Wed, 4 Jan 2023 20:08 UTC

On Wednesday, January 4, 2023 at 6:37:40 PM UTC, ah....Clem wrote:
> On 1/4/2023 7:45 AM, Timothy Chow wrote:
> > XGID=--Ba-bC-EC---B-------aeae-:1:-1:1:64:0:0:0:0:10
> >
> > Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
> > +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-
> > | X | | O O O O | +---+
> > | X | | O O | | 2 |
> > | | | O O | +---+
> > | | | O O |
> > | | | O O |
> > | |BAR| |
> > | X | | |
> > | X | | |
> > | X X | | X |
> > | X X | | X O X |
> > | X X | | X O O X |
> > +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
> > Pip count X: 115 O: 88 X-O: 0-0
> > Cube: 2, O own cube
> > X to play 64
> X is behind in the race and if O can slide past X's checkers she'll have
> a strong recube, perhaps a pass. To prevent that I'll hit loose on the
> three point, then the question becomes how to play the four.
>
> Banana split? Sure. O has no board so recirculating checkers should help
> X even if he doesn't pick up one of the blots on the way. If O fails to
> hit, X should be able to cover at least one of the slotted points. And I
> think keeping the midpoint is better than 13/9 since X wants to increase
> contact.
>
> 9/3* 8/4.

I think this play seems clear, and I definitely want to play it too.
But this is one where I regret not Walting.
I don't know whether I could have found Walt's play Waltishly -- it
might not have occurred to me.

Paul

Re: O wins the "ugly board prize"

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From: tchow12...@yahoo.com (Timothy Chow)
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Subject: Re: O wins the "ugly board prize"
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2023 08:16:15 -0500
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Timothy Chow - Thu, 5 Jan 2023 13:16 UTC

On 1/4/2023 2:17 PM, Stick Rice wrote:
> That is not what a banana split play is.

I have to agree with Stick here. In a banana split play, you
break a home-board point, creating two new blots in the process.

---
Tim Chow

Re: O wins the "ugly board prize"

<7364936c-f5c9-4f9b-b2b7-c44c576ea69en@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: O wins the "ugly board prize"
From: pepste...@gmail.com (peps...@gmail.com)
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 by: peps...@gmail.com - Thu, 5 Jan 2023 21:58 UTC

On Thursday, January 5, 2023 at 1:16:16 PM UTC, Tim Chow wrote:
> On 1/4/2023 2:17 PM, Stick Rice wrote:
> > That is not what a banana split play is.
> I have to agree with Stick here. In a banana split play, you
> break a home-board point, creating two new blots in the process.

Not just "I agree with Stick" but "I have to agree with Stick"
implying that your aim is to disagree with him as much as possible
and will only agree with him if forced to.

Paul

Re: O wins the "ugly board prize"

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From: tchow12...@yahoo.com (Timothy Chow)
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Subject: Re: O wins the "ugly board prize"
Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2023 07:45:58 -0500
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 by: Timothy Chow - Fri, 6 Jan 2023 12:45 UTC

On 1/5/2023 4:58 PM, peps...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, January 5, 2023 at 1:16:16 PM UTC, Tim Chow wrote:
>> On 1/4/2023 2:17 PM, Stick Rice wrote:
>>> That is not what a banana split play is.
>> I have to agree with Stick here. In a banana split play, you
>> break a home-board point, creating two new blots in the process.
>
> Not just "I agree with Stick" but "I have to agree with Stick"
> implying that your aim is to disagree with him as much as possible
> and will only agree with him if forced to.

It's not my aim, but it's what I typically find myself doing when
Stick nitpicks about terminology.

---
Tim Chow

Rollout: O wins the "ugly board prize"

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From: tchow12...@yahoo.com (Timothy Chow)
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Subject: Rollout: O wins the "ugly board prize"
Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2023 08:01:22 -0500
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 by: Timothy Chow - Fri, 6 Jan 2023 13:01 UTC

XGID=--Ba-bC-EC---B-------aeae-:1:-1:1:64:0:0:0:0:10

Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
+13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
| X | | O O O O | +---+
| X | | O O | | 2 |
| | | O O | +---+
| | | O O |
| | | O O |
| |BAR| |
| X | | |
| X | | |
| X X | | X |
| X X | | X O X |
| X X | | X O O X |
+12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
Pip count X: 115 O: 88 X-O: 0-0
Cube: 2, O own cube
X to play 64

X is 27 pips down before the roll and needs to do something to contain
O's checkers, especially the straggler. O's terrible board means that
he can afford to play boldly. The play 9/3* 8/4, suggested by ah...clem,
is not a terrible idea, but there's an even bolder play available, which
makes a bid for the bar point: 13/7 8/4! Another thing to note about
13/7 8/4 is that it forces O to break her anchor with some 5's and 6's.

1. Rollout¹ 13/7 8/4 eq:+0.577
Player: 72.92% (G:23.16% B:1.77%)
Opponent: 27.08% (G:4.31% B:0.02%)
Confidence: ±0.009 (+0.568..+0.587) - [100.0%]

2. Rollout¹ 8/4 8/2 eq:+0.537 (-0.041)
Player: 71.55% (G:20.60% B:1.70%)
Opponent: 28.45% (G:2.63% B:0.02%)
Confidence: ±0.009 (+0.528..+0.545) - [0.0%]

3. Rollout¹ 9/3* 8/4 eq:+0.525 (-0.053)
Player: 71.76% (G:20.10% B:1.28%)
Opponent: 28.24% (G:2.86% B:0.01%)
Confidence: ±0.008 (+0.516..+0.533) - [0.0%]

4. Rollout¹ 13/3* eq:+0.420 (-0.157)
Player: 68.85% (G:16.05% B:1.15%)
Opponent: 31.15% (G:2.37% B:0.01%)
Confidence: ±0.008 (+0.412..+0.429) - [0.0%]

¹ 1296 Games rolled with Variance Reduction.
Dice Seed: 271828
Moves: 3-ply, cube decisions: XG Roller

eXtreme Gammon Version: 2.19.211.pre-release

---
Tim Chow

1
server_pubkey.txt

rocksolid light 0.9.81
clearnet tor