Rocksolid Light

Welcome to novaBBS (click a section below)

mail  files  register  newsreader  groups  login

Message-ID:  

Is knowledge knowable? If not, how do we know that?

interests / rec.games.backgammon / Rollout: Another double 5s

SubjectAuthor
* Another double 5sTimothy Chow
+- Re: Another double 5sRobert Zimmerman
`- Rollout: Another double 5sTimothy Chow

1
Another double 5s

<tt8goa$1uv5k$3@dont-email.me>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=11369&group=rec.games.backgammon#11369

  copy link   Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: tchow12...@yahoo.com (Timothy Chow)
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Subject: Another double 5s
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2023 15:02:19 -0500
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <tt8goa$1uv5k$3@dont-email.me>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Injection-Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2023 20:02:18 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: reader01.eternal-september.org; posting-host="eec2866dd45411cee0dd33e2bf1dd602";
logging-data="2063540"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX188tnw1DF2PwIRm/52zn+u3IUBtuhwncVY="
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/102.8.0
Cancel-Lock: sha1:zgfmmvEp+SLL+Bo7QMFGvahktkE=
Content-Language: en-US
 by: Timothy Chow - Thu, 23 Feb 2023 20:02 UTC

Robert just posted a double 5s problem, and it just so happens
that the next problem in my queue is also a double 5s problem.

XGID=-BAaB-C-----cC-A-b-cbCb-b-:1:1:1:55:0:0:0:0:10

Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
+13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
| X X O | | O O X O O |
| X O | | O O X O O |
| X | | O X |
| | | |
| | | |
| |BAR| |
| | | |
| | | |
| O | | X | +---+
| O | | X X X | | 2 |
| O | | X X O X X | +---+
+12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
Pip count X: 147 O: 113 X-O: 0-0
Cube: 2, X own cube
X to play 55

---
Tim Chow

Re: Another double 5s

<a8643d3f-66e2-4ee1-942e-425d0bfc1ed6n@googlegroups.com>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=11372&group=rec.games.backgammon#11372

  copy link   Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:1906:b0:742:32aa:5f1e with SMTP id bj6-20020a05620a190600b0074232aa5f1emr2340195qkb.0.1677191515763;
Thu, 23 Feb 2023 14:31:55 -0800 (PST)
X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:361f:b0:742:6f50:2444 with SMTP id
da31-20020a05620a361f00b007426f502444mr126895qkb.13.1677191515470; Thu, 23
Feb 2023 14:31:55 -0800 (PST)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!feed1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer03.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2023 14:31:55 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <tt8goa$1uv5k$3@dont-email.me>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=67.247.240.200; posting-account=JNGsXQoAAAAxfJ0WMkx3LfmvPOGTnqzo
NNTP-Posting-Host: 67.247.240.200
References: <tt8goa$1uv5k$3@dont-email.me>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <a8643d3f-66e2-4ee1-942e-425d0bfc1ed6n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Another double 5s
From: zimbrook...@gmail.com (Robert Zimmerman)
Injection-Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2023 22:31:55 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Received-Bytes: 2628
 by: Robert Zimmerman - Thu, 23 Feb 2023 22:31 UTC

On Thursday, February 23, 2023 at 3:02:20 PM UTC-5, Timothy Chow wrote:
> Robert just posted a double 5s problem, and it just so happens
> that the next problem in my queue is also a double 5s problem.
>
> XGID=-BAaB-C-----cC-A-b-cbCb-b-:1:1:1:55:0:0:0:0:10
>
> Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
> +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
> | X X O | | O O X O O |
> | X O | | O O X O O |
> | X | | O X |
> | | | |
> | | | |
> | |BAR| |
> | | | |
> | | | |
> | O | | X | +---+
> | O | | X X X | | 2 |
> | O | | X X O X X | +---+
> +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
> Pip count X: 147 O: 113 X-O: 0-0
> Cube: 2, X own cube
> X to play 55
>
> ---
> Tim Chow

Making the 3 point on O's head looks good for immediately building the inner board. AFAICT, any play of the 55 should have that as an immediate goal. It takes away half of O's next roll, and possibly the whole roll (16/36). It leaves 15 rolls that hit back.
13/8 (3) 15/10 is safer with 6 return shots, brings builders down for the board, but leaves O with freedom right out of the gate. There is only a plan C at that point, hoping to win from a 4-point holding game.
I don't see other plays that don't leave too many blots or reduce contact to a hopeless race.

I'd make the 3 point. There are sufficient chances to recover from one of those 16 hits, have a good board and another shot.

Bob

Rollout: Another double 5s

<ttd6lt$2j60s$3@dont-email.me>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=11383&group=rec.games.backgammon#11383

  copy link   Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: tchow12...@yahoo.com (Timothy Chow)
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Subject: Rollout: Another double 5s
Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2023 09:41:01 -0500
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 101
Message-ID: <ttd6lt$2j60s$3@dont-email.me>
References: <tt8goa$1uv5k$3@dont-email.me>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2023 14:41:01 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: reader01.eternal-september.org; posting-host="15d4cb88df3ee3bb28bf283408977e10";
logging-data="2725916"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX19Z/S4mrCMDCzxrK7T6ohSkG7VfIzA5EMQ="
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/102.8.0
Cancel-Lock: sha1:US82R4uyHgpkcWumIe/v0SCTkA0=
Content-Language: en-US
In-Reply-To: <tt8goa$1uv5k$3@dont-email.me>
 by: Timothy Chow - Sat, 25 Feb 2023 14:41 UTC

XGID=-BAaB-C-----cC-A-b-cbCb-b-:1:1:1:55:0:0:0:0:10

Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
+13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
| X X O | | O O X O O |
| X O | | O O X O O |
| X | | O X |
| | | |
| | | |
| |BAR| |
| | | |
| | | |
| O | | X | +---+
| O | | X X X | | 2 |
| O | | X X O X X | +---+
+12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
Pip count X: 147 O: 113 X-O: 0-0
Cube: 2, X own cube
X to play 55

Like Robert, I tried the PoH play here, having learned from experience
that I tend to underestimate the strength of putting up an opponent's
checker against a four-point board. XG says that PoH is the DMP play,
but with all those blots and O's four-point board, PoH loses too many
gammons for money.

In the variant, I have weakened O's board, and PoH rolls out on top.

1. Rollout¹ 21/6 15/10 eq:-0.291
Player: 32.59% (G:4.57% B:0.07%)
Opponent: 67.41% (G:9.83% B:0.30%)
Confidence: ±0.006 (-0.296..-0.285) - [100.0%]

2. Rollout¹ 21/16(3) 15/10 eq:-0.363 (-0.073)
Player: 31.63% (G:3.60% B:0.10%)
Opponent: 68.37% (G:14.49% B:0.19%)
Confidence: ±0.006 (-0.369..-0.357) - [0.0%]

3. Rollout¹ 13/3*(2) eq:-0.378 (-0.087)
Player: 34.33% (G:10.28% B:0.10%)
Opponent: 65.67% (G:29.12% B:1.16%)
Confidence: ±0.008 (-0.386..-0.369) - [0.0%]

4. Rollout¹ 15/10 13/8(3) eq:-0.394 (-0.104)
Player: 28.68% (G:3.90% B:0.06%)
Opponent: 71.32% (G:10.17% B:0.22%)
Confidence: ±0.006 (-0.400..-0.389) - [0.0%]

¹ 1296 Games rolled with Variance Reduction.
Dice Seed: 271828
Moves: 3-ply, cube decisions: XG Roller

eXtreme Gammon Version: 2.19.211.pre-release

-------
Variant
-------

XGID=-BAaB-C-----cC-A-b-ccCb-a-:1:1:1:55:0:0:0:0:10

Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
+13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
| X X O | | O O X O O |
| X O | | O O X O |
| X | | O O X |
| | | |
| | | |
| |BAR| |
| | | |
| | | |
| O | | X | +---+
| O | | X X X | | 2 |
| O | | X X O X X | +---+
+12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
Pip count X: 147 O: 117 X-O: 0-0
Cube: 2, X own cube
X to play 55

1. Rollout¹ 13/3*(2) eq:-0.128
Player: 40.43% (G:15.24% B:0.23%)
Opponent: 59.57% (G:24.13% B:0.96%)
Confidence: ±0.008 (-0.136..-0.119) - [100.0%]

2. Rollout¹ 21/6 15/10 eq:-0.186 (-0.059)
Player: 35.97% (G:6.79% B:0.10%)
Opponent: 64.03% (G:9.43% B:0.36%)
Confidence: ±0.007 (-0.193..-0.179) - [0.0%]

3. Rollout¹ 21/16(3) 15/10 eq:-0.222 (-0.095)
Player: 35.96% (G:5.10% B:0.12%)
Opponent: 64.04% (G:12.64% B:0.27%)
Confidence: ±0.007 (-0.229..-0.215) - [0.0%]

¹ 1296 Games rolled with Variance Reduction.
Dice Seed: 271828
Moves: 3-ply, cube decisions: XG Roller

eXtreme Gammon Version: 2.19.211.pre-release

---
Tim Chow

1
server_pubkey.txt

rocksolid light 0.9.81
clearnet tor