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interests / rec.games.backgammon / Prime versus prime

SubjectAuthor
* Prime versus primeAxel Reichert
+- Re: Prime versus primeStick Rice
+* Re: Prime versus primeMK
|`- Re: Prime versus primeMK
+- Re: Prime versus primeTimothy Chow
`- Rollout (was: Prime versus prime)Axel Reichert

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Prime versus prime

<87r0tw5q73.fsf@axel-reichert.de>

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From: mai...@axel-reichert.de (Axel Reichert)
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Subject: Prime versus prime
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2023 21:03:44 +0100
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 by: Axel Reichert - Fri, 10 Mar 2023 20:03 UTC

GNU Backgammon Position ID: bNsoAFhuuxEAKA
Match ID : UQlgAXAACAAE
+24-23-22-21-20-19------18-17-16-15-14-13-+ O: gnubg
| X X O O O O | O | O O O | 7 points
| O O O O | | O |
| | | |
| | | |
| | | |
| |BAR| |v 11 point match
| | | |
| | | |
| X X | | |
| O X X X X X | | | On roll
| O X X X X X | | X | 1 point
+-1--2--3--4--5--6-------7--8--9-10-11-12-+ X: axel (Cube: 2)
Pip counts: O 144, X 103

Hint: With the checker on the bar it only /looks/ like a broken 6-prime.

Best regards

Axel

Re: Prime versus prime

<537c641b-b8a4-444d-b76e-08f9a0e466e7n@googlegroups.com>

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Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2023 17:28:28 -0800 (PST)
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Subject: Re: Prime versus prime
From: bananabo...@gmail.com (Stick Rice)
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 by: Stick Rice - Sat, 11 Mar 2023 01:28 UTC

On Friday, March 10, 2023 at 3:03:46 PM UTC-5, Axel Reichert wrote:
> GNU Backgammon Position ID: bNsoAFhuuxEAKA
> Match ID : UQlgAXAACAAE
> +24-23-22-21-20-19------18-17-16-15-14-13-+ O: gnubg
> | X X O O O O | O | O O O | 7 points
> | O O O O | | O |
> | | | |
> | | | |
> | | | |
> | |BAR| |v 11 point match
> | | | |
> | | | |
> | X X | | |
> | O X X X X X | | | On roll
> | O X X X X X | | X | 1 point
> +-1--2--3--4--5--6-------7--8--9-10-11-12-+ X: axel (Cube: 2)
> Pip counts: O 144, X 103
>
> Hint: With the checker on the bar it only /looks/ like a broken 6-prime.
>
> Best regards
>
> Axel

Clear beaver for money and probably a cube AtS since it's a dead cube and when we do roll well we pocket some gammons that have serious value on a 4 cube at 10a 4a.

Stick

Re: Prime versus prime

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Subject: Re: Prime versus prime
From: mur...@compuplus.net (MK)
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 by: MK - Sat, 11 Mar 2023 08:45 UTC

On March 10, 2023 at 1:03:46 PM UTC-7, Axel Reichert wrote:

> GNU Backgammon Position ID: bNsoAFhuuxEAKA
> Match ID : UQlgAXAACAAE

> Hint: With the checker on the bar it only /looks/ like
> a broken 6-prime.

Bah humbug!

Hint: Santa, I want an AI backgammon bot or at least
an AI gamblegammon bot that can adjust its checker
play according to the match score, for next Christmas.

If you can deliver, I will then ask for similar bots that
can adjust their checker plays according to the "batch"
score in addition to "match" score. (I think SET for "set
equity table" was too confusing. So, now I will try BET
for "batch of matches equity table" to see if it sticks.)

MK

Re: Prime versus prime

<04f13403-dafe-4e2e-8dc7-b42a6ece967en@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: Prime versus prime
From: mur...@compuplus.net (MK)
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 by: MK - Sat, 11 Mar 2023 23:55 UTC

On March 11, 2023 at 1:45:34 AM UTC-7, MK wrote:

> On March 10, 2023 at 1:03:46 PM UTC-7, Axel Reichert wrote:

>> GNU Backgammon Position ID: bNsoAFhuuxEAKA
>> Match ID : UQlgAXAACAAE

>> Hint: With the checker on the bar it only /looks/
>> like a broken 6-prime.

> If you can deliver, I will then ask for similar bots
> that can adjust their checker plays according to
> the "batch" score in addition to "match" score. (I
> think SET for "set equity table" was too confusing.
> So, now I will try BET for "batch of matches equity
> table" to see if it sticks.)

I am struggling to think of a "match" as a "set of
matches" and trying to find a new terminology to
segregate my thoughts but my above comments
to your post were misplaced. Sorry. :( I will try to
do better at addressing this in more appropriate
discussions...

MK

Re: Prime versus prime

<tukhbl$32dk8$6@dont-email.me>

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From: tchow12...@yahoo.com (Timothy Chow)
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Subject: Re: Prime versus prime
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2023 08:42:29 -0400
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 by: Timothy Chow - Sun, 12 Mar 2023 12:42 UTC

On 3/10/2023 3:03 PM, Axel Reichert wrote:
> GNU Backgammon Position ID: bNsoAFhuuxEAKA
> Match ID : UQlgAXAACAAE
> +24-23-22-21-20-19------18-17-16-15-14-13-+ O: gnubg
> | X X O O O O | O | O O O | 7 points
> | O O O O | | O |
> | | | |
> | | | |
> | | | |
> | |BAR| |v 11 point match
> | | | |
> | | | |
> | X X | | |
> | O X X X X X | | | On roll
> | O X X X X X | | X | 1 point
> +-1--2--3--4--5--6-------7--8--9-10-11-12-+ X: axel (Cube: 2)
> Pip counts: O 144, X 103

Well, at this score, we're supposed to be trigger-happy with
the cube, but our straggler on the 24pt, which is not at the
edge of O's five-prime, gives me pause. I don't think I'd
double OTB, but maybe the extra gammons from those outfield
blots make it a double. I would take as O.

---
Tim Chow

Rollout (was: Prime versus prime)

<875yazq5ir.fsf@axel-reichert.de>

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From: mai...@axel-reichert.de (Axel Reichert)
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Subject: Rollout (was: Prime versus prime)
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2023 07:02:52 +0100
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 by: Axel Reichert - Fri, 17 Mar 2023 06:02 UTC

Axel Reichert <mail@axel-reichert.de> writes:

> GNU Backgammon Position ID: bNsoAFhuuxEAKA
> Match ID : UQlgAXAACAAE
> +24-23-22-21-20-19------18-17-16-15-14-13-+ O: gnubg
> | X X O O O O | O | O O O | 7 points
> | O O O O | | O |
> | | | |
> | | | |
> | | | |
> | |BAR| |v 11 point match
> | | | |
> | | | |
> | X X | | |
> | O X X X X X | | | On roll
> | O X X X X X | | X | 1 point
> +-1--2--3--4--5--6-------7--8--9-10-11-12-+ X: axel (Cube: 2)
> Pip counts: O 144, X 103

With less than 40 % doubling chances it is a redouble at this score.
20 % gammon chances.

Cube analysis
Rollout cubeless equity +0.044 (Money: -0.153)

Cubeful equities:
1. Double, take +0.493
2. Double, pass +1.000 (+0.507)
3. No double +0.388 (-0.104)
Proper cube action: Redouble, take

Rollout details:
Player axel owns 2-cube:
0.390 0.189 0.028 - 0.610 0.144 0.005 CL +0.044 CF +0.388
[0.002 0.001 0.000 - 0.002 0.001 0.000 CL 0.008 CF 0.007]
Player gnubg owns 4-cube:
0.390 0.193 0.030 - 0.610 0.145 0.005 CL +0.493 CF +0.493
[0.002 0.001 0.000 - 0.002 0.001 0.000 CL 0.010 CF 0.010]
Truncated cubeful rollout (depth 6) with variance reduction
254 games, Mersenne Twister dice gen. with seed 449002682 and quasi-random dice
Stop when std.errs. are small enough: limit 0.0100 (min. 36 games)
Play: world class 2-ply cubeful prune [world class]
keep the first 0 0-ply moves and up to 8 more moves within equity 0.16
Skip pruning for 1-ply moves.
Cube: 2-ply cubeful prune [world class]
Different evaluations after 2 plies:
Play: 1-ply cubeful
keep the first 0 0-ply moves and up to 8 more moves within equity 0.16
Cube: 2-ply cubeful prune [world class]

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