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interests / rec.games.backgammon / Step into the abyss?

SubjectAuthor
* Step into the abyss?Robert Zimmerman
+* Re: Step into the abyss?peps...@gmail.com
|`* Re: Step into the abyss?Robert Zimmerman
| `- Re: Step into the abyss?peps...@gmail.com
+* Re: Step into the abyss?Robert Zimmerman
|`- Re: Step into the abyss?peps...@gmail.com
`* Re: Step into the abyss?Timothy Chow
 `- Re: Step into the abyss?Robert Zimmerman

1
Step into the abyss?

<cb576a13-704d-4683-8001-6b560a04d59cn@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Step into the abyss?
From: zimbrook...@gmail.com (Robert Zimmerman)
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 by: Robert Zimmerman - Thu, 20 Apr 2023 15:28 UTC

XGID=-BCa--EBBa--a-b--bab-c--bA:0:0:1:42:0:0:0:0:10

Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
+13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
| O O O | | O O O |
| O O | | O O O |
| | | O |
| | | |
| | X | |
| |BAR| |
| | | X |
| | | X |
| | | X X |
| X X | | X X X |
| O O X X | | X O X X |
+12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
Pip count X: 93 O: 122 X-O: 0-0
Cube: 1
X to play 42

eXtreme Gammon Version: 2.10

Re: Step into the abyss?

<fbd2806f-ac77-41cd-a1bc-817496b4b3d5n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: Step into the abyss?
From: pepste...@gmail.com (peps...@gmail.com)
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 by: peps...@gmail.com - Thu, 20 Apr 2023 21:13 UTC

On Thursday, April 20, 2023 at 4:28:47 PM UTC+1, Robert Zimmerman wrote:
> XGID=-BCa--EBBa--a-b--bab-c--bA:0:0:1:42:0:0:0:0:10
>
> Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
> +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
> | O O O | | O O O |
> | O O | | O O O |
> | | | O |
> | | | |
> | | X | |
> | |BAR| |
> | | | X |
> | | | X |
> | | | X X |
> | X X | | X X X |
> | O O X X | | X O X X |
> +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
> Pip count X: 93 O: 122 X-O: 0-0
> Cube: 1
> X to play 42
>
> eXtreme Gammon Version: 2.10

Sorry but I don't get why this is even a question.
Surely, we have to hit?
6/2 is an unthinkable burying of a checker.
And 8/4 just exposes lots of blots for no purpose.
I suppose it's plausible that a raw beginner might make
6/2 a candidate for safety but there's nothing so much to
be scared of and we're in great shape if the opponent
dances.
So we hit of course, and I don't get why this is even a question.

Paul

Re: Step into the abyss?

<20945361-a5f2-4ea0-9b71-9a9a6e549be1n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: Step into the abyss?
From: zimbrook...@gmail.com (Robert Zimmerman)
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 by: Robert Zimmerman - Thu, 20 Apr 2023 21:36 UTC

On Thursday, April 20, 2023 at 5:13:20 PM UTC-4, peps...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, April 20, 2023 at 4:28:47 PM UTC+1, Robert Zimmerman wrote:
> > XGID=-BCa--EBBa--a-b--bab-c--bA:0:0:1:42:0:0:0:0:10
> >
> > Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
> > +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
> > | O O O | | O O O |
> > | O O | | O O O |
> > | | | O |
> > | | | |
> > | | X | |
> > | |BAR| |
> > | | | X |
> > | | | X |
> > | | | X X |
> > | X X | | X X X |
> > | O O X X | | X O X X |
> > +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
> > Pip count X: 93 O: 122 X-O: 0-0
> > Cube: 1
> > X to play 42
> >
> > eXtreme Gammon Version: 2.10
> Sorry but I don't get why this is even a question.
> Surely, we have to hit?
> 6/2 is an unthinkable burying of a checker.
> And 8/4 just exposes lots of blots for no purpose.
> I suppose it's plausible that a raw beginner might make
> 6/2 a candidate for safety but there's nothing so much to
> be scared of and we're in great shape if the opponent
> dances.
> So we hit of course, and I don't get why this is even a question.
>
> Paul
Stick, is that you?

Re: Step into the abyss?

<5778f30f-b090-43b4-907c-f90a53368527n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: Step into the abyss?
From: pepste...@gmail.com (peps...@gmail.com)
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 by: peps...@gmail.com - Thu, 20 Apr 2023 23:32 UTC

On Thursday, April 20, 2023 at 10:36:38 PM UTC+1, Robert Zimmerman wrote:
> On Thursday, April 20, 2023 at 5:13:20 PM UTC-4, peps...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Thursday, April 20, 2023 at 4:28:47 PM UTC+1, Robert Zimmerman wrote:
> > > XGID=-BCa--EBBa--a-b--bab-c--bA:0:0:1:42:0:0:0:0:10
> > >
> > > Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
> > > +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
> > > | O O O | | O O O |
> > > | O O | | O O O |
> > > | | | O |
> > > | | | |
> > > | | X | |
> > > | |BAR| |
> > > | | | X |
> > > | | | X |
> > > | | | X X |
> > > | X X | | X X X |
> > > | O O X X | | X O X X |
> > > +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
> > > Pip count X: 93 O: 122 X-O: 0-0
> > > Cube: 1
> > > X to play 42
> > >
> > > eXtreme Gammon Version: 2.10
> > Sorry but I don't get why this is even a question.
> > Surely, we have to hit?
> > 6/2 is an unthinkable burying of a checker.
> > And 8/4 just exposes lots of blots for no purpose.
> > I suppose it's plausible that a raw beginner might make
> > 6/2 a candidate for safety but there's nothing so much to
> > be scared of and we're in great shape if the opponent
> > dances.
> > So we hit of course, and I don't get why this is even a question.
> >
> > Paul
> Stick, is that you?

No, it's Paul. But Stick does use other names sometimes.
And I'm sure I've been influenced by Stick's style.
I personally can't imagine a good player playing anything else,
but maybe I'm missing something.
The other candidate is maybe 6/2 but it's been literally more than forty
years since I burned anything of mine, and that was an accident when
I was playing with matches.
So why do you expect me to voluntarily burn my checkers??
Yes, people do burn things sometimes (hence the need for fire departments)
but this isn't usually done on purpose.
If I burned my things so readily, I'd be destitute and I don't want that.

Paul

Re: Step into the abyss?

<f2554ef0-45e2-469f-a3fa-395e9c312d56n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: Step into the abyss?
From: zimbrook...@gmail.com (Robert Zimmerman)
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 by: Robert Zimmerman - Sat, 22 Apr 2023 12:12 UTC

On Thursday, April 20, 2023 at 11:28:47 AM UTC-4, Robert Zimmerman wrote:
> XGID=-BCa--EBBa--a-b--bab-c--bA:0:0:1:42:0:0:0:0:10
>
> Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
> +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
> | O O O | | O O O |
> | O O | | O O O |
> | | | O |
> | | | |
> | | X | |
> | |BAR| |
> | | | X |
> | | | X |
> | | | X X |
> | X X | | X X X |
> | O O X X | | X O X X |
> +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
> Pip count X: 93 O: 122 X-O: 0-0
> Cube: 1
> X to play 42
>
> eXtreme Gammon Version: 2.10
Rest easy. Put your lighters away. No need to burn your checkers. Though I don't think a 117 is criminal in the backgammon world. Anyone whose very worst mistakes were in that range would do pretty well in tournaments, I think.
Bob

Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
+13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
| O O O | | O O O |
| O O | | O O O |
| | | O |
| | | |
| | X | |
| |BAR| |
| | | X |
| | | X |
| | | X X |
| X X | | X X X |
| O O X X | | X O X X |
+12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
Pip count X: 93 O: 122 X-O: 0-0
Cube: 1
X to play 42

1. XG Roller++ Bar/23 7/3* eq:-0.014
Player: 47.78% (G:20.96% B:0.71%)
Opponent: 52.22% (G:14.18% B:0.61%)

2. XG Roller++ Bar/23 6/2 eq:-0.131 (-0.117)
Player: 45.38% (G:11.80% B:0.19%)
Opponent: 54.62% (G:8.81% B:0.25%)

3. XG Roller++ Bar/23 8/4 eq:-0.738 (-0.724)
Player: 32.74% (G:9.50% B:0.36%)
Opponent: 67.26% (G:21.45% B:0.84%)

eXtreme Gammon Version: 2.10

Re: Step into the abyss?

<u20ot8$39s5n$2@dont-email.me>

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From: tchow12...@yahoo.com (Timothy Chow)
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Subject: Re: Step into the abyss?
Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2023 09:53:43 -0400
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 by: Timothy Chow - Sat, 22 Apr 2023 13:53 UTC

On 4/21/2023 9:29 AM, Timothy Chow wrote:
> On 4/20/2023 11:28 AM, Robert Zimmerman wrote:
>> XGID=-BCa--EBBa--a-b--bab-c--bA:0:0:1:42:0:0:0:0:10
>>
>> Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
>>   +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
>>   |    O        O  O |   | O     O        O |
>>   |    O        O    |   | O     O        O |
>>   |                  |   |       O          |
>>   |                  |   |                  |
>>   |                  | X |                  |
>>   |                  |BAR|                  |
>>   |                  |   | X                |
>>   |                  |   | X                |
>>   |                  |   | X           X    |
>>   |             X  X |   | X           X  X |
>>   | O        O  X  X |   | X        O  X  X |
>>   +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
>> Pip count  X: 93  O: 122 X-O: 0-0
>> Cube: 1
>> X to play 42
>
> This looks awfully similar to a position I posted recently.
> Is there some subtle distinction that I'm missing?

Looks like I wasn't missing anything. I posted this position
on March 26.

https://groups.google.com/g/rec.games.backgammon/c/zQpkEp0_8EM/m/riwtquELAgAJ

---
Tim Chow

Re: Step into the abyss?

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Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2023 08:06:29 -0700 (PDT)
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Subject: Re: Step into the abyss?
From: pepste...@gmail.com (peps...@gmail.com)
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 by: peps...@gmail.com - Sat, 22 Apr 2023 15:06 UTC

On Saturday, April 22, 2023 at 1:12:41 PM UTC+1, Robert Zimmerman wrote:
> On Thursday, April 20, 2023 at 11:28:47 AM UTC-4, Robert Zimmerman wrote:
> > XGID=-BCa--EBBa--a-b--bab-c--bA:0:0:1:42:0:0:0:0:10
> >
> > Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
> > +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
> > | O O O | | O O O |
> > | O O | | O O O |
> > | | | O |
> > | | | |
> > | | X | |
> > | |BAR| |
> > | | | X |
> > | | | X |
> > | | | X X |
> > | X X | | X X X |
> > | O O X X | | X O X X |
> > +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
> > Pip count X: 93 O: 122 X-O: 0-0
> > Cube: 1
> > X to play 42
> >
> > eXtreme Gammon Version: 2.10
> Rest easy. Put your lighters away. No need to burn your checkers. Though I don't think a 117 is criminal in the backgammon world. Anyone whose very worst mistakes were in that range would do pretty well in tournaments, I think.
> Bob
> Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
> +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
> | O O O | | O O O |
> | O O | | O O O |
> | | | O |
> | | | |
> | | X | |
> | |BAR| |
> | | | X |
> | | | X |
> | | | X X |
> | X X | | X X X |
> | O O X X | | X O X X |
> +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
> Pip count X: 93 O: 122 X-O: 0-0
> Cube: 1
> X to play 42
> 1. XG Roller++ Bar/23 7/3* eq:-0.014
> Player: 47.78% (G:20.96% B:0.71%)
> Opponent: 52.22% (G:14.18% B:0.61%)
>
> 2. XG Roller++ Bar/23 6/2 eq:-0.131 (-0.117)
> Player: 45.38% (G:11.80% B:0.19%)
> Opponent: 54.62% (G:8.81% B:0.25%)
>
> 3. XG Roller++ Bar/23 8/4 eq:-0.738 (-0.724)
> Player: 32.74% (G:9.50% B:0.36%)
> Opponent: 67.26% (G:21.45% B:0.84%)

Indeed, I regularly make errors worth than 0.117.
You can probably variantize the position to make 6/2 correct
and tempt me into wrongly hitting.

Paul

Re: Step into the abyss?

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Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2023 08:32:32 -0700 (PDT)
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Subject: Re: Step into the abyss?
From: zimbrook...@gmail.com (Robert Zimmerman)
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 by: Robert Zimmerman - Sat, 22 Apr 2023 15:32 UTC

On Saturday, April 22, 2023 at 9:53:47 AM UTC-4, Timothy Chow wrote:
> On 4/21/2023 9:29 AM, Timothy Chow wrote:
> > On 4/20/2023 11:28 AM, Robert Zimmerman wrote:
> >> XGID=-BCa--EBBa--a-b--bab-c--bA:0:0:1:42:0:0:0:0:10
> >>
> >> Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
> >> +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
> >> | O O O | | O O O |
> >> | O O | | O O O |
> >> | | | O |
> >> | | | |
> >> | | X | |
> >> | |BAR| |
> >> | | | X |
> >> | | | X |
> >> | | | X X |
> >> | X X | | X X X |
> >> | O O X X | | X O X X |
> >> +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
> >> Pip count X: 93 O: 122 X-O: 0-0
> >> Cube: 1
> >> X to play 42
> >
> > This looks awfully similar to a position I posted recently.
> > Is there some subtle distinction that I'm missing?
>
> Looks like I wasn't missing anything. I posted this position
> on March 26.
>
> https://groups.google.com/g/rec.games.backgammon/c/zQpkEp0_8EM/m/riwtquELAgAJ
>
> ---
> Tim Chow
Too funny. Sorry about the plagiarism, Tim! I was going through files of positions I saved and clearly I saved this one because I liked it. Mea culpa.
Bob

1
server_pubkey.txt

rocksolid light 0.9.81
clearnet tor