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interests / rec.games.backgammon / Re: Rollout: Clear from the rear?

SubjectAuthor
* Clear from the rear?Timothy Chow
+- Re: Clear from the rear?Robert Zimmerman
`* Rollout: Clear from the rear?Timothy Chow
 `- Re: Rollout: Clear from the rear?Stick Rice

1
Clear from the rear?

<u25smf$bdnm$1@dont-email.me>

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From: tchow12...@yahoo.com (Timothy Chow)
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Subject: Clear from the rear?
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2023 08:29:02 -0400
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 by: Timothy Chow - Mon, 24 Apr 2023 12:29 UTC

XGID=-ABbBBBBBB----------bcccb-:1:-1:1:21:0:0:0:0:10

Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
+13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
| | | O O O O O | +---+
| | | O O O O O | | 2 |
| | | O O O | +---+
| | | |
| | | |
| |BAR| |
| | | |
| | | |
| | | |
| X X X | | X X X O X |
| X X X | | X X X O X X |
+12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
Pip count X: 83 O: 83 X-O: 0-0
Cube: 2, O own cube
X to play 21

---
Tim Chow

Re: Clear from the rear?

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Subject: Re: Clear from the rear?
From: zimbrook...@gmail.com (Robert Zimmerman)
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 by: Robert Zimmerman - Mon, 24 Apr 2023 18:33 UTC

On Monday, April 24, 2023 at 8:29:05 AM UTC-4, Timothy Chow wrote:
> XGID=-ABbBBBBBB----------bcccb-:1:-1:1:21:0:0:0:0:10
>
> Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
> +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
> | | | O O O O O | +---+
> | | | O O O O O | | 2 |
> | | | O O O | +---+
> | | | |
> | | | |
> | |BAR| |
> | | | |
> | | | |
> | | | |
> | X X X | | X X X O X |
> | X X X | | X X X O X X |
> +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
> Pip count X: 83 O: 83 X-O: 0-0
> Cube: 2, O own cube
> X to play 21
>
> ---
> Tim Chow
Not sure, but I think you would want to have more than one point open in O's board before considering opening up a more proximal point, e.g. 7/6 7/5, so that if you're hit on the ace point or 3 point while carrying out your plan, you can get back in.
Bob

Rollout: Clear from the rear?

<u2cqks$1ooio$1@dont-email.me>

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From: tchow12...@yahoo.com (Timothy Chow)
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Subject: Rollout: Clear from the rear?
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2023 23:36:59 -0400
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 by: Timothy Chow - Thu, 27 Apr 2023 03:36 UTC

XGID=-ABbBBBBBB----------bcccb-:1:-1:1:21:0:0:0:0:10

Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
+13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
| | | O O O O O | +---+
| | | O O O O O | | 2 |
| | | O O O | +---+
| | | |
| | | |
| |BAR| |
| | | |
| | | |
| | | |
| X X X | | X X X O X |
| X X X | | X X X O X X |
+12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
Pip count X: 83 O: 83 X-O: 0-0
Cube: 2, O own cube
X to play 21

Against an ace-point anchor, one typically clears from the rear. I've
cited Kit Woolsey's article before but I will cite it again.

https://bkgm.com/articles/Woolsey/AcePoint-DoYouKnowYourAcePoint/

Against a deuce-point anchor, clearing the bar point tends to be the
right idea, because you don't want to be forced to play 7/1 with your
sixed.

What about the three-point anchor? In a position like this one, we
would ideally like to set a trap and force O to run off her anchor.
Clearing the 7pt is not as effective because O can play a 4 in her
home board (for comparison, see the variant below). Clearing the 9pt
doesn't give us as many builders to pounce on the remaining checker
if O is forced to run with one checker.

1. Rollout¹ 8/7 8/6 eq:+0.598
Player: 80.52% (G:5.94% B:0.09%)
Opponent: 19.48% (G:0.62% B:0.01%)
Confidence: ±0.004 (+0.594..+0.602) - [100.0%]

2. Rollout¹ 7/6 7/5 eq:+0.509 (-0.088)
Player: 77.21% (G:5.18% B:0.07%)
Opponent: 22.79% (G:0.82% B:0.01%)
Confidence: ±0.004 (+0.505..+0.514) - [0.0%]

3. Rollout¹ 9/8 9/7 eq:+0.502 (-0.095)
Player: 77.32% (G:3.83% B:0.05%)
Opponent: 22.68% (G:0.87% B:0.01%)
Confidence: ±0.004 (+0.498..+0.507) - [0.0%]

¹ 1296 Games rolled with Variance Reduction.
Dice Seed: 271828
Moves: 3-ply, cube decisions: XG Roller

eXtreme Gammon Version: 2.19.211.pre-release

-------
Variant
-------

XGID=-ABbBBBBBB-----------dccc-:1:-1:1:21:0:0:0:0:10

Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
+13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
| | | O O O O | +---+
| | | O O O O | | 2 |
| | | O O O O | +---+
| | | O |
| | | |
| |BAR| |
| | | |
| | | |
| | | |
| X X X | | X X X O X |
| X X X | | X X X O X X |
+12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
Pip count X: 83 O: 78 X-O: 0-0
Cube: 2, O own cube
X to play 21

1. Rollout¹ 8/7 8/6 eq:+0.626
Player: 81.34% (G:7.07% B:0.11%)
Opponent: 18.66% (G:0.57% B:0.01%)
Confidence: ±0.004 (+0.623..+0.630) - [54.4%]

2. Rollout¹ 7/6 7/5 eq:+0.626
Player: 80.20% (G:9.70% B:0.22%)
Opponent: 19.80% (G:0.67% B:0.01%)
Confidence: ±0.004 (+0.622..+0.630) - [45.6%]

¹ 1296 Games rolled with Variance Reduction.
Dice Seed: 271828
Moves: 4-ply, cube decisions: XG Roller+
Search interval: Large

eXtreme Gammon Version: 2.19.211.pre-release

---
Tim Chow

Re: Rollout: Clear from the rear?

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Subject: Re: Rollout: Clear from the rear?
From: bananabo...@gmail.com (Stick Rice)
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 by: Stick Rice - Thu, 27 Apr 2023 16:39 UTC

On Wednesday, April 26, 2023 at 11:37:03 PM UTC-4, Timothy Chow wrote:
> XGID=-ABbBBBBBB----------bcccb-:1:-1:1:21:0:0:0:0:10
>
> Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
> +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
> | | | O O O O O | +---+
> | | | O O O O O | | 2 |
> | | | O O O | +---+
> | | | |
> | | | |
> | |BAR| |
> | | | |
> | | | |
> | | | |
> | X X X | | X X X O X |
> | X X X | | X X X O X X |
> +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
> Pip count X: 83 O: 83 X-O: 0-0
> Cube: 2, O own cube
> X to play 21
> Against an ace-point anchor, one typically clears from the rear. I've
> cited Kit Woolsey's article before but I will cite it again.
>
> https://bkgm.com/articles/Woolsey/AcePoint-DoYouKnowYourAcePoint/
>
> Against a deuce-point anchor, clearing the bar point tends to be the
> right idea, because you don't want to be forced to play 7/1 with your
> sixed.
>
> What about the three-point anchor? In a position like this one, we
> would ideally like to set a trap and force O to run off her anchor.
> Clearing the 7pt is not as effective because O can play a 4 in her
> home board (for comparison, see the variant below). Clearing the 9pt
> doesn't give us as many builders to pounce on the remaining checker
> if O is forced to run with one checker.
>
> 1. Rollout¹ 8/7 8/6 eq:+0.598
> Player: 80.52% (G:5.94% B:0.09%)
> Opponent: 19.48% (G:0.62% B:0.01%)
> Confidence: ±0.004 (+0.594..+0.602) - [100.0%]
>
> 2. Rollout¹ 7/6 7/5 eq:+0.509 (-0.088)
> Player: 77.21% (G:5.18% B:0.07%)
> Opponent: 22.79% (G:0.82% B:0.01%)
> Confidence: ±0.004 (+0.505..+0.514) - [0.0%]
>
> 3. Rollout¹ 9/8 9/7 eq:+0.502 (-0.095)
> Player: 77.32% (G:3.83% B:0.05%)
> Opponent: 22.68% (G:0.87% B:0.01%)
> Confidence: ±0.004 (+0.498..+0.507) - [0.0%]
>
> ¹ 1296 Games rolled with Variance Reduction.
> Dice Seed: 271828
> Moves: 3-ply, cube decisions: XG Roller
>
> eXtreme Gammon Version: 2.19.211.pre-release
>
> -------
> Variant
> -------
>
> XGID=-ABbBBBBBB-----------dccc-:1:-1:1:21:0:0:0:0:10
> Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
> +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
> | | | O O O O | +---+
> | | | O O O O | | 2 |
> | | | O O O O | +---+
> | | | O |
> | | | |
> | |BAR| |
> | | | |
> | | | |
> | | | |
> | X X X | | X X X O X |
> | X X X | | X X X O X X |
> +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
> Pip count X: 83 O: 78 X-O: 0-0
> Cube: 2, O own cube
> X to play 21
> 1. Rollout¹ 8/7 8/6 eq:+0.626
> Player: 81.34% (G:7.07% B:0.11%)
> Opponent: 18.66% (G:0.57% B:0.01%)
> Confidence: ±0.004 (+0.623..+0.630) - [54.4%]
>
> 2. Rollout¹ 7/6 7/5 eq:+0.626
> Player: 80.20% (G:9.70% B:0.22%)
> Opponent: 19.80% (G:0.67% B:0.01%)
> Confidence: ±0.004 (+0.622..+0.630) - [45.6%]
>
> ¹ 1296 Games rolled with Variance Reduction.
> Dice Seed: 271828
> Moves: 4-ply, cube decisions: XG Roller+
> Search interval: Large
>
> eXtreme Gammon Version: 2.19.211.pre-release
>
> ---
> Tim Chow

Don't overlook the fact that when you clear from the rear in these situations there is no number for your opponent to leave both blots within' your grasp. If you clear an intermediate point, there will still be numbers that break anchor but don't run all the way past your contact. With the best play here for example the opponent still has the nightmare [51].

Stick

1
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