Rocksolid Light

Welcome to novaBBS (click a section below)

mail  files  register  newsreader  groups  login

Message-ID:  

It was Penguin lust... at its ugliest.


interests / alt.obituaries / Re: Why not? (Was: David Bennett, 57, received first-ever transplant of a pig heart)

SubjectAuthor
* David Bennett, 57, received first-ever transplant of a pig heartJason
`* Re: David Bennett, 57, received first-ever transplant of a pig heartA Friend
 `* Re: David Bennett, 57, received first-ever transplant of a pig heartMeteorite Debris
  +- Re: David Bennett, 57, received first-ever transplant of a pig heartA Friend
  `* Why not? (Was: David Bennett, 57, received first-ever transplant of a pig heart)Kenny McCormack
   `* Re: Why not? (Was: David Bennett, 57, received first-ever transplantMeteorite Debris
    `* Re: Why not? (Was: David Bennett, 57, received first-ever transplantKenny McCormack
     `- Re: Why not? (Was: David Bennett, 57, received first-ever transplantradioacti...@gmail.com

1
David Bennett, 57, received first-ever transplant of a pig heart

<28c5182a-911c-4b98-8f17-2e4b29902d16n@googlegroups.com>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=12225&group=alt.obituaries#12225

  copy link   Newsgroups: alt.obituaries
X-Received: by 2002:a37:4649:0:b0:47e:cf47:48af with SMTP id t70-20020a374649000000b0047ecf4748afmr2863308qka.605.1646915959190;
Thu, 10 Mar 2022 04:39:19 -0800 (PST)
X-Received: by 2002:a81:4008:0:b0:2dc:9575:158a with SMTP id
l8-20020a814008000000b002dc9575158amr3468251ywn.157.1646915958760; Thu, 10
Mar 2022 04:39:18 -0800 (PST)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!news.misty.com!border2.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: alt.obituaries
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2022 04:39:18 -0800 (PST)
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=2600:6c40:4400:184b:6c48:a057:1306:d738;
posting-account=VTbA3AoAAAAbYedj78QXMtNz54zrQOIB
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2600:6c40:4400:184b:6c48:a057:1306:d738
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <28c5182a-911c-4b98-8f17-2e4b29902d16n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: David Bennett, 57, received first-ever transplant of a pig heart
From: jsnsmith...@gmail.com (Jason)
Injection-Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2022 12:39:19 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Lines: 86
 by: Jason - Thu, 10 Mar 2022 12:39 UTC

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2022/03/09/human-pig-heart-transplant-patient-dies/9437650002/

David Bennett, 57, who received a pig heart in January in place of his own failing one, died Tuesday.

It's not yet clear precisely what caused Bennett's death, according to the University of Maryland Medical Center, where he received the transplant Jan.. 7 and had been recovering since. He began deteriorating in recent days and the hospital announced his death Wednesday.

Bennett was the first patient ever to receive an animal organ genetically modified to prevent rejection in a person.

There was no obvious cause identified at the time of his death, hospital spokeswoman Deborah Kotz said, and researchers plan to conduct a thorough review of his death and publish the results in a peer-reviewed journal.

The investigative surgery, although it only added two months to Bennett's life, informed the field of xenotransplantation, which hopes to help solve the human organ shortage.

“We have gained invaluable insights learning that the genetically modified pig heart can function well within the human body while the immune system is adequately suppressed,” Dr. Muhammad Mohiuddin, an expert in interspecies transplants who was involved in Bennett's care and at the University of Maryland School of Medicine, said in a statement. “We remain optimistic and plan on continuing our work in future clinical trials.”

Bartley Griffith, left, was the lead surgeon for Dave Bennett, who received a pig heart.

The history of medicine is filled with examples of experimental procedures that did not make a substantial difference in the first few patients but eventually transformed medicine. Organ transplantation itself remained largely experimental from the 1950s until the mid-1980s and now about 40,000 are performed annually in the United States.

The transplant raised ethical concerns among animal rights activists, who believe animals should not be sacrificed for human benefit, and among some who objected to Bennett, who had served time in prison for attacking a man with a knife, receiving a life-extending procedure.

“We are devastated by the loss of Mr. Bennett. He proved to be a brave and noble patient who fought all the way to the end. We extend our sincerest condolences to his family,” Dr. Bartley Griffith, surgeon who led Bennett's transplant said in a statement. “Mr. Bennett became known by millions of people around the world for his courage and steadfast will to live.”

Bennett was bedridden and on a heart-lung bypass machine at the University of Maryland Medical Center from October 2021 until the transplant surgery.

He was not eligible for a human heart transplant because he had not been compliant with earlier medical recommendations. Studies have shown that patients who do not follow doctors' orders do not do well with an organ transplant and only a very limited number of human hearts are available for transplant.

When he learned he had no other options, he agreed to be the first person to receive a gene-edited pig heart, which he hoped would be a bridge until he could prove himself worthy of a human heart.

His new heart performed well for weeks, without any signs of rejection. Extremely weak from so much time in bed, Bennett was receiving rehabilitation and was able to sit up and watch the Super Bowl, with his physical therapist, even singing along with a performance of "America the Beautiful."

He often told his caregivers how much he wanted to get home to his dog Lucky.

Bennett's son, David Bennett, Jr., speaking for the family, thanked the hospital and doctors for his care.

"Their exhaustive efforts and energy, paired with my dad’s insatiable will to live, created a hopeful environment during an uphill climb," he said in a statement. "We were able to spend some precious weeks together while he recovered from the transplant surgery, weeks we would not have had without this miraculous effort."

His son also said he hopes his father's experience will eventually help many others live far longer with transplanted pig organs.

"We hope this story can be the beginning of hope and not the end," he said. "We pray that those looking for hope will continue to fight for the future, fight for new ideas, fight for answers, fight for life. Fight like Dave."

Re: David Bennett, 57, received first-ever transplant of a pig heart

<100320220759569584%nope@noway.com>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=12226&group=alt.obituaries#12226

  copy link   Newsgroups: alt.obituaries
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.goja.nl.eu.org!2.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!news.uzoreto.com!news-out.netnews.com!news.alt.net!fdc2.netnews.com!peer03.ams1!peer.ams1.xlned.com!news.xlned.com!peer01.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!fx11.iad.POSTED!not-for-mail
Subject: Re: David Bennett, 57, received first-ever transplant of a pig heart
From: nop...@noway.com (A Friend)
Newsgroups: alt.obituaries
Reply-To: A Friend
Message-ID: <100320220759569584%nope@noway.com>
References: <28c5182a-911c-4b98-8f17-2e4b29902d16n@googlegroups.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
User-Agent: Thoth/1.9.1 (Mac OS X)
Lines: 24
X-Complaints-To: abuse(at)newshosting.com
NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2022 12:59:56 UTC
Organization: Newshosting.com - Highest quality at a great price! www.newshosting.com
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2022 07:59:56 -0500
X-Received-Bytes: 1796
 by: A Friend - Thu, 10 Mar 2022 12:59 UTC

In article <28c5182a-911c-4b98-8f17-2e4b29902d16n@googlegroups.com>,
Jason <jsnsmith565@gmail.com> quoted:

> He was not eligible for a human heart transplant because he had not been
> compliant with earlier medical recommendations. Studies have shown that
> patients who do not follow doctors' orders do not do well with an organ
> transplant and only a very limited number of human hearts are available for
> transplant.

Nobody was gonna tell this guy what to do. They wasted that poor pig.

"Due to his condition, Bennett was ineligible for a human heart or
pump. He also did not follow his doctors' orders, missed appointments
and stopped taking drugs he was prescribed.

"It is not clear what medicine he was told to take but heart disease
patients are often prescribed blood thinners or drugs such as beta
blockers and ACE inhibitors to keep their blood pressure down."

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-10594599/US-man-got-1st-pig-h
eart-transplant-dies-2-months.html

Re: David Bennett, 57, received first-ever transplant of a pig heart

<7a217904-3ed8-4a47-8c07-0c93ce2ae6a6n@googlegroups.com>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=12227&group=alt.obituaries#12227

  copy link   Newsgroups: alt.obituaries
X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:4726:b0:67d:47fc:785e with SMTP id bs38-20020a05620a472600b0067d47fc785emr4649702qkb.717.1646950330264;
Thu, 10 Mar 2022 14:12:10 -0800 (PST)
X-Received: by 2002:a81:1ed7:0:b0:2db:9eec:786c with SMTP id
e206-20020a811ed7000000b002db9eec786cmr6057516ywe.422.1646950329907; Thu, 10
Mar 2022 14:12:09 -0800 (PST)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!border1.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: alt.obituaries
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2022 14:12:09 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <100320220759569584%nope@noway.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=103.77.233.34; posting-account=wH6pjgoAAAB3kCu11PkEl71FGWOTLO_p
NNTP-Posting-Host: 103.77.233.34
References: <28c5182a-911c-4b98-8f17-2e4b29902d16n@googlegroups.com> <100320220759569584%nope@noway.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <7a217904-3ed8-4a47-8c07-0c93ce2ae6a6n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: David Bennett, 57, received first-ever transplant of a pig heart
From: peter.gr...@gmail.com (Meteorite Debris)
Injection-Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2022 22:12:10 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Lines: 33
 by: Meteorite Debris - Thu, 10 Mar 2022 22:12 UTC

On Thursday, 10 March 2022 at 23:29:59 UTC+10:30, A Friend wrote:
> In article <28c5182a-911c-4b98...@googlegroups.com>,
> Jason <jsnsm...@gmail.com> quoted:
> > He was not eligible for a human heart transplant because he had not been
> > compliant with earlier medical recommendations. Studies have shown that
> > patients who do not follow doctors' orders do not do well with an organ
> > transplant and only a very limited number of human hearts are available for
> > transplant.
> Nobody was gonna tell this guy what to do. They wasted that poor pig.
>
>
> "Due to his condition, Bennett was ineligible for a human heart or
> pump. He also did not follow his doctors' orders, missed appointments
> and stopped taking drugs he was prescribed.
>
> "It is not clear what medicine he was told to take but heart disease
> patients are often prescribed blood thinners or drugs such as beta
> blockers and ACE inhibitors to keep their blood pressure down."
>
>
> https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-10594599/US-man-got-1st-pig-h
> eart-transplant-dies-2-months.html

I have thought about this in respect of myself. My heart is perfectly fine and I am healthy. However if I was in the position of having only the option of a xenotransplant as a treatment I would reject the option in a second and make peace with my impending personal extinction. I was dead forever before I was born and that doesn't seem to have been too bad and at some point in the future I will be dead once more, no matter what.

Re: David Bennett, 57, received first-ever transplant of a pig heart

<100320221734372002%nope@noway.com>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=12228&group=alt.obituaries#12228

  copy link   Newsgroups: alt.obituaries
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!news.uzoreto.com!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed7.news.xs4all.nl!peer02.ams4!peer.am4.highwinds-media.com!peer03.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!fx09.iad.POSTED!not-for-mail
Subject: Re: David Bennett, 57, received first-ever transplant of a pig heart
From: nop...@noway.com (A Friend)
Newsgroups: alt.obituaries
Reply-To: A Friend
Message-ID: <100320221734372002%nope@noway.com>
References: <28c5182a-911c-4b98-8f17-2e4b29902d16n@googlegroups.com> <100320220759569584%nope@noway.com> <7a217904-3ed8-4a47-8c07-0c93ce2ae6a6n@googlegroups.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
User-Agent: Thoth/1.9.1 (Mac OS X)
Lines: 41
X-Complaints-To: abuse(at)newshosting.com
NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2022 22:34:37 UTC
Organization: Newshosting.com - Highest quality at a great price! www.newshosting.com
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2022 17:34:37 -0500
X-Received-Bytes: 2961
 by: A Friend - Thu, 10 Mar 2022 22:34 UTC

In article <7a217904-3ed8-4a47-8c07-0c93ce2ae6a6n@googlegroups.com>,
Meteorite Debris <peter.gregory.kelly@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thursday, 10 March 2022 at 23:29:59 UTC+10:30, A Friend wrote:
> > In article <28c5182a-911c-4b98...@googlegroups.com>,
> > Jason <jsnsm...@gmail.com> quoted:
> > > He was not eligible for a human heart transplant because he had not been
> > > compliant with earlier medical recommendations. Studies have shown that
> > > patients who do not follow doctors' orders do not do well with an organ
> > > transplant and only a very limited number of human hearts are available
> > > for
> > > transplant.
> > Nobody was gonna tell this guy what to do. They wasted that poor pig.
> >
> >
> > "Due to his condition, Bennett was ineligible for a human heart or
> > pump. He also did not follow his doctors' orders, missed appointments
> > and stopped taking drugs he was prescribed.
> >
> > "It is not clear what medicine he was told to take but heart disease
> > patients are often prescribed blood thinners or drugs such as beta
> > blockers and ACE inhibitors to keep their blood pressure down."
> >
> >
> > https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-10594599/US-man-got-1st-pig-h
> > eart-transplant-dies-2-months.html
>
> I have thought about this in respect of myself. My heart is perfectly fine
> and I am healthy. However if I was in the position of having only the option
> of a xenotransplant as a treatment I would reject the option in a second and
> make peace with my impending personal extinction. I was dead forever before I
> was born and that doesn't seem to have been too bad and at some point in the
> future I will be dead once more, no matter what.

Many of the recipients have gone through with weirdness like baboon
hearts because they know they're going to die, but they want to help
establish the procedure and make it safer. Barney Clark was like that.
He knew he didn't have a chance, but went through it anyway because he
knew it would help. Barney Clark was a true hero.

Why not? (Was: David Bennett, 57, received first-ever transplant of a pig heart)

<t0e0kr$1fkre$1@news.xmission.com>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=12229&group=alt.obituaries#12229

  copy link   Newsgroups: alt.obituaries
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!xmission!nnrp.xmission!.POSTED.shell.xmission.com!not-for-mail
From: gaze...@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack)
Newsgroups: alt.obituaries
Subject: Why not? (Was: David Bennett, 57, received first-ever transplant of a pig heart)
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2022 23:12:27 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: The official candy of the new Millennium
Message-ID: <t0e0kr$1fkre$1@news.xmission.com>
References: <28c5182a-911c-4b98-8f17-2e4b29902d16n@googlegroups.com> <100320220759569584%nope@noway.com> <7a217904-3ed8-4a47-8c07-0c93ce2ae6a6n@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2022 23:12:27 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: news.xmission.com; posting-host="shell.xmission.com:166.70.8.4";
logging-data="1561454"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@xmission.com"
X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test77 (Sep 1, 2010)
Originator: gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack)
 by: Kenny McCormack - Thu, 10 Mar 2022 23:12 UTC

In article <7a217904-3ed8-4a47-8c07-0c93ce2ae6a6n@googlegroups.com>,
Meteorite Debris <peter.gregory.kelly@gmail.com> wrote:
....
>I have thought about this in respect of myself. My heart is perfectly
>fine and I am healthy. However if I was in the position of having only
>the option of a xenotransplant as a treatment I would reject the option
>in a second and make peace with my impending personal extinction. I was
>dead forever before I was born and that doesn't seem to have been too
>bad and at some point in the future I will be dead once more, no matter
>what.

Just out of curiosity (seriously!), why not?

Note that I am not saying you are wrong to not want to do it, or even that
I to any degree disagree with your stance (i.e., that I wouldn't do
likewise). But I am genuinely curious specifically why you say you
wouldn't do it.

I could see two possible reasons off the bat:

1) It's just icky/ooky. And/or, you may have religious restrictions
against it.

2) As happened to Mr. Bennett, a good outcome is unlikely, and it just
means more pain and suffering (more operations, more hospital shit, etc)
over time (in whatever time/life you have left). Better to just get it
over with and die.

--
Modern Christian: Someone who can take time out from using Leviticus
to defend homophobia and Exodus to plaster the Ten Commandments on
every school and courthouse to claim that the Old Testament is merely
"ancient laws" that "only applies to Jews".

Re: Why not? (Was: David Bennett, 57, received first-ever transplant of a pig heart)

<be87c5b9-aef8-4c4a-9124-1784d9b38e92n@googlegroups.com>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=12231&group=alt.obituaries#12231

  copy link   Newsgroups: alt.obituaries
X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:4156:b0:67d:6a0d:2a3e with SMTP id k22-20020a05620a415600b0067d6a0d2a3emr2671442qko.462.1646958312929;
Thu, 10 Mar 2022 16:25:12 -0800 (PST)
X-Received: by 2002:a25:778b:0:b0:628:919f:7088 with SMTP id
s133-20020a25778b000000b00628919f7088mr6293674ybc.282.1646958312740; Thu, 10
Mar 2022 16:25:12 -0800 (PST)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!feeder5.feed.usenet.farm!feeder1.feed.usenet.farm!feed.usenet.farm!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed9.news.xs4all.nl!news-out.netnews.com!news.alt.net!fdc2.netnews.com!peer02.ams1!peer.ams1.xlned.com!news.xlned.com!peer01.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: alt.obituaries
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2022 16:25:12 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <t0e0kr$1fkre$1@news.xmission.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=103.77.233.34; posting-account=wH6pjgoAAAB3kCu11PkEl71FGWOTLO_p
NNTP-Posting-Host: 103.77.233.34
References: <28c5182a-911c-4b98-8f17-2e4b29902d16n@googlegroups.com>
<100320220759569584%nope@noway.com> <7a217904-3ed8-4a47-8c07-0c93ce2ae6a6n@googlegroups.com>
<t0e0kr$1fkre$1@news.xmission.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <be87c5b9-aef8-4c4a-9124-1784d9b38e92n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Why not? (Was: David Bennett, 57, received first-ever transplant
of a pig heart)
From: peter.gr...@gmail.com (Meteorite Debris)
Injection-Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2022 00:25:12 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Received-Bytes: 4483
 by: Meteorite Debris - Fri, 11 Mar 2022 00:25 UTC

On Friday, 11 March 2022 at 09:42:30 UTC+10:30, Kenny McCormack wrote:
> In article <7a217904-3ed8-4a47...@googlegroups.com>,
> Meteorite Debris <peter.gre...@gmail.com> wrote:
> ...
> >I have thought about this in respect of myself. My heart is perfectly
> >fine and I am healthy. However if I was in the position of having only
> >the option of a xenotransplant as a treatment I would reject the option
> >in a second and make peace with my impending personal extinction. I was
> >dead forever before I was born and that doesn't seem to have been too
> >bad and at some point in the future I will be dead once more, no matter
> >what.
> Just out of curiosity (seriously!), why not?
>
> Note that I am not saying you are wrong to not want to do it, or even that
> I to any degree disagree with your stance (i.e., that I wouldn't do
> likewise). But I am genuinely curious specifically why you say you
> wouldn't do it.
>
> I could see two possible reasons off the bat:
>
> 1) It's just icky/ooky. And/or, you may have religious restrictions
> against it.
>
> 2) As happened to Mr. Bennett, a good outcome is unlikely, and it just
> means more pain and suffering (more operations, more hospital shit, etc)
> over time (in whatever time/life you have left). Better to just get it
> over with and die.

I see it as one, unethical for a) animal welfare reasons and b) environmental reasons (growing even more pigs), and two, I see increasing medical heroics as a manifestation of Ernst Becker's "Terror Management Theory", AKA, fear of death. We combine fear of death with anthrocentric arrogance to create an environmentally impacting way to harvest organs for ourselves to allow a few decades of regular medical appointments to stay off Domiciles Sword of death which comes with xenotransplants, as with any transplant. It's running away from death and projecting our psychological problems into consequences on to the environment. That is really species entitlementism.

There is another possible technology which could render xenotransplants obsolete. That is growing organs from stem cells which would reduce the rejection risks from regular transplants.

But at the end of the day we are all going to die, no matter what. Even the universe will die. Wherever you go and whatever you do death will visit you. Your loved ones will be heart broken. They will be going through your belonging and deciding what to throw out, what to pass on to others and what to give to a charity shop. You will return to the ground you, and all of us, came from. All of the environment we destroyed in our time of some decades for our own pleasure and vainglory will have been for nothing. The accumulation of such processions was to busy ourselves with fake action pursuing fake values so that we would have no time to reflect on our ultimate demise.. Pedalling against reality.

Re: Why not? (Was: David Bennett, 57, received first-ever transplant of a pig heart)

<t0farp$1ga8o$1@news.xmission.com>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=12236&group=alt.obituaries#12236

  copy link   Newsgroups: alt.obituaries
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!xmission!nnrp.xmission!.POSTED.shell.xmission.com!not-for-mail
From: gaze...@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack)
Newsgroups: alt.obituaries
Subject: Re: Why not? (Was: David Bennett, 57, received first-ever transplant
of a pig heart)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2022 11:12:57 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: The official candy of the new Millennium
Message-ID: <t0farp$1ga8o$1@news.xmission.com>
References: <28c5182a-911c-4b98-8f17-2e4b29902d16n@googlegroups.com> <7a217904-3ed8-4a47-8c07-0c93ce2ae6a6n@googlegroups.com> <t0e0kr$1fkre$1@news.xmission.com> <be87c5b9-aef8-4c4a-9124-1784d9b38e92n@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2022 11:12:57 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: news.xmission.com; posting-host="shell.xmission.com:166.70.8.4";
logging-data="1583384"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@xmission.com"
X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test77 (Sep 1, 2010)
Originator: gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack)
 by: Kenny McCormack - Fri, 11 Mar 2022 11:12 UTC

In article <be87c5b9-aef8-4c4a-9124-1784d9b38e92n@googlegroups.com>,
Meteorite Debris <peter.gregory.kelly@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Friday, 11 March 2022 at 09:42:30 UTC+10:30, Kenny McCormack wrote:
>> In article <7a217904-3ed8-4a47...@googlegroups.com>,
>> Meteorite Debris <peter.gre...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> ...
>> >I have thought about this in respect of myself. My heart is
>> >perfectly fine and I am healthy. However if I was in the position of
>> >having only the option of a xenotransplant as a treatment I would
>> >reject the option in a second and make peace with my impending
>> >personal extinction. I was dead forever before I was born and that
>> >doesn't seem to have been too bad and at some point in the future I
>> >will be dead once more, no matter what.
>>
>> Just out of curiosity (seriously!), why not?
>>
>> Note that I am not saying you are wrong to not want to do it, or even that
>> I to any degree disagree with your stance (i.e., that I wouldn't do
>> likewise). But I am genuinely curious specifically why you say you
>> wouldn't do it.
>>
>> I could see two possible reasons off the bat:
>>
>> 1) It's just icky/ooky. And/or, you may have religious restrictions
>> against it.
>>
>> 2) As happened to Mr. Bennett, a good outcome is unlikely, and it just
>> means more pain and suffering (more operations, more hospital shit, etc)
>> over time (in whatever time/life you have left). Better to just get it
>> over with and die.
>
>I see it as one, unethical for a) animal welfare reasons and b)
>environmental reasons (growing even more pigs), and two, I see
>increasing medical heroics as a manifestation of Ernst Becker's "Terror
>Management Theory", AKA, fear of death. We combine fear of death with
>anthrocentric arrogance to create an environmentally impacting way to
>harvest organs for ourselves to allow a few decades of regular medical
>appointments to stay off Domiciles Sword of death which comes with
>xenotransplants, as with any transplant. It's running away from death
>and projecting our psychological problems into consequences on to the
>environment. That is really species entitlementism.
>
>There is another possible technology which could render xenotransplants
>obsolete. That is growing organs from stem cells which would reduce the
>rejection risks from regular transplants.
>
>But at the end of the day we are all going to die, no matter what.
>Even the universe will die. Wherever you go and whatever you do
>death will visit you. Your loved ones will be heart broken. They
>will be going through your belonging and deciding what to throw out,
>what to pass on to others and what to give to a charity shop. You
>will return to the ground you, and all of us, came from. All of the
>environment we destroyed in our time of some decades for our own
>pleasure and vainglory will have been for nothing. The accumulation of
>such processions was to busy ourselves with fake action pursuing fake
>values so that we would have no time to reflect on our ultimate demise.
>Pedalling against reality.

Very interesting. Thank you for posting.

--
The randomly chosen signature file that would have appeared here is more than 4
lines long. As such, it violates one or more Usenet RFCs. In order to remain
in compliance with said RFCs, the actual sig can be found at the following URL:
http://user.xmission.com/~gazelle/Sigs/GodDelusion

Re: Why not? (Was: David Bennett, 57, received first-ever transplant of a pig heart)

<b26b9e88-ce95-4d58-8959-db81f9614c4fn@googlegroups.com>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=12237&group=alt.obituaries#12237

  copy link   Newsgroups: alt.obituaries
X-Received: by 2002:a37:5806:0:b0:67c:50b8:4bd1 with SMTP id m6-20020a375806000000b0067c50b84bd1mr6140839qkb.730.1646998564896;
Fri, 11 Mar 2022 03:36:04 -0800 (PST)
X-Received: by 2002:a81:2055:0:b0:2d4:2fd7:a4b9 with SMTP id
g82-20020a812055000000b002d42fd7a4b9mr8082400ywg.444.1646998564608; Fri, 11
Mar 2022 03:36:04 -0800 (PST)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!proxad.net!feeder1-2.proxad.net!209.85.160.216.MISMATCH!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: alt.obituaries
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2022 03:36:04 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <t0farp$1ga8o$1@news.xmission.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=2600:1700:b9b0:4500:4914:941b:6cdd:effc;
posting-account=TSYqNAoAAAAkItU-0hcgXRiIlN2bWWLY
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2600:1700:b9b0:4500:4914:941b:6cdd:effc
References: <28c5182a-911c-4b98-8f17-2e4b29902d16n@googlegroups.com>
<7a217904-3ed8-4a47-8c07-0c93ce2ae6a6n@googlegroups.com> <t0e0kr$1fkre$1@news.xmission.com>
<be87c5b9-aef8-4c4a-9124-1784d9b38e92n@googlegroups.com> <t0farp$1ga8o$1@news.xmission.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <b26b9e88-ce95-4d58-8959-db81f9614c4fn@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Why not? (Was: David Bennett, 57, received first-ever transplant
of a pig heart)
From: radioact...@gmail.com (radioacti...@gmail.com)
Injection-Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2022 11:36:04 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
 by: radioacti...@gmail.c - Fri, 11 Mar 2022 11:36 UTC

I'd like to second Kenny McCormack's emotion: All the arguments presented above strike me as thoughtfully-presented and indeed compelling---and I'm just glad (and lucky) I am not faced with such an ethical and existential dilemma, at least yet.

And ditto re the (long-ago) late Barney Clark!

BRYAN STYBLE/Florida


interests / alt.obituaries / Re: Why not? (Was: David Bennett, 57, received first-ever transplant of a pig heart)

1
server_pubkey.txt

rocksolid light 0.9.81
clearnet tor