Barbarian game, Dlvl 11 and not a single altar, not a single general
store... :-( I'd like to bless my 2 scrolls of ID, but no holy water;
The mines altar is not coaligned :-( *sigh*

On 11.02.2022 17:49, Isidore Ducasse wrote:
> Barbarian game, Dlvl 11 and not a single altar, not a single general
> store... :-( I'd like to bless my 2 scrolls of ID, but no holy water;
> The mines altar is not coaligned :-( *sigh*

That happens. If there's no altar until the Castle your one choice is
to convert the mis-aligned mine-town altar using one of the standard
methods. My personal favorite method, while simple from the setup and
quite effective, is the polymorphed pet; you need a magic whistle (or
magic resistance) and a polytrap.

If, OTOH, you feel ready to do the quest, there's also an altar at the
bottom of your Barbarian's quest level.

(In Slashem there's a guaranteed co-aligned altar around level 15-19,
but surviving until then isn't a given. But I suppose you're anyway
playing Vanilla Nethack?)

Janis

Yes, I'm far too newbie for anything else than vanilla NH :-)
I've polymorphed once my pet, just to try it, but I don't see how
it's related to converting an altar ?? Or may be you mean getting a
strong enough pet to kill the priest. Actually, I could also go there
with a cockatrice corpse (for the priest) and levelport may be...
Got to think about it.

Thanks !

On 2022-02-11, Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On 11.02.2022 17:49, Isidore Ducasse wrote:
>> Barbarian game, Dlvl 11 and not a single altar, not a single general
>> store... :-( I'd like to bless my 2 scrolls of ID, but no holy water;
>> The mines altar is not coaligned :-( *sigh*
>
> That happens. If there's no altar until the Castle your one choice is
> to convert the mis-aligned mine-town altar using one of the standard
> methods. My personal favorite method, while simple from the setup and
> quite effective, is the polymorphed pet; you need a magic whistle (or
> magic resistance) and a polytrap.
>
> If, OTOH, you feel ready to do the quest, there's also an altar at the
> bottom of your Barbarian's quest level.
>
> (In Slashem there's a guaranteed co-aligned altar around level 15-19,
> but surviving until then isn't a given. But I suppose you're anyway
> playing Vanilla Nethack?)
>
> Janis
>

On 11.02.2022 20:19, Isidore Ducasse wrote:
> Yes, I'm far too newbie for anything else than vanilla NH :-)
> I've polymorphed once my pet, just to try it, but I don't see how
> it's related to converting an altar ?? Or may be you mean getting a
> strong enough pet to kill the priest.

Correct.

> Actually, I could also go there
> with a cockatrice corpse (for the priest) and levelport may be...
> Got to think about it.

Your Barbarian doesn't want to kill a peaceful creature unnecessarily
to not get penalized. But you're not liable for what your pet does.

Janis

On 2022-02-11, Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou@hotmail.com> wrote:

> On 11.02.2022 20:19, Isidore Ducasse wrote:
>> Actually, I could also go there
>> with a cockatrice corpse (for the priest) and levelport may be...
>> Got to think about it.
>
> Your Barbarian doesn't want to kill a peaceful creature unnecessarily
> to not get penalized. But you're not liable for what your pet does.
>
> Janis
>

Well, a neutral Barbarian won't want to kill a peaceful creature,
especially not a peaceful human. Of course, Barbarians can be chaotic, and
chaotic characters don't get dinged for it. Of course, as you said,
anything your pet does is fair game, regardless of your alignment.

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On Fri, 11 Feb 2022 20:55:05 +0100, Janis Papanagnou wrote:

> On 11.02.2022 20:19, Isidore Ducasse wrote:
>> Actually, I could also go there
>> with a cockatrice corpse (for the priest) and levelport may be...
>> Got to think about it.
>
> Your Barbarian doesn't want to kill a peaceful creature unnecessarily
> to not get penalized. But you're not liable for what your pet does.

With the right ring, a cockatrice is a working approach, though. With the
right wand, even a corpse will do as starting point. One doesn't usually
want a (strong enough with stoning-protected hands, possibly hostile)
monster picking up and wielding such a corpse, of course... ;-)

BeAr
--
===========================================================================
= What do you mean with: "Perfection is always an illusion"? =
===============================================================--(Oops!)===

> With the right ring, a cockatrice is a working approach, though. With the
> right wand, even a corpse will do as starting point. One doesn't usually
> want a (strong enough with stoning-protected hands, possibly hostile)
> monster picking up and wielding such a corpse, of course... ;-)

Interesting, my Barbarian is chaotic, so I can kill the priest without
penalty ? And I've got a teleport control ring, and there's a levelport
trap (no polymorph trap), so... :-)

Which wand are you suggesting ? undead turning to resurrect the
cockatrice ? Never used such wands so far...

On Sat, 12 Feb 2022 07:32:27 -0000 (UTC), Isidore Ducasse wrote:

>> With the right ring, a cockatrice is a working approach, though. With the
>> right wand, even a corpse will do as starting point. One doesn't usually
>> want a (strong enough with stoning-protected hands, possibly hostile)
>> monster picking up and wielding such a corpse, of course... ;-)
>
> Interesting, my Barbarian is chaotic, so I can kill the priest without
> penalty ?

No luck-penalty. Alignment will still suffer. (But this usually is not
a problem, if you don't strain it too often.)

> And I've got a teleport control ring, and there's a levelport
> trap (no polymorph trap), so... :-)

Wrong ring. (For what I had in mind.)
> Which wand are you suggesting ? undead turning to resurrect the
> cockatrice ? Never used such wands so far...

Right track. But you'll still need the correct ring. There are some other
possibilities with the same general approach, that /might/ work without
the correct ring. But the desired outcome is very unlikely, then.

BeAr
--
===========================================================================
= What do you mean with: "Perfection is always an illusion"? =
===============================================================--(Oops!)===

On 12.02.2022 08:32, Isidore Ducasse wrote:
>> With the right ring, a cockatrice is a working approach, though. With the
>> right wand, even a corpse will do as starting point. One doesn't usually
>> want a (strong enough with stoning-protected hands, possibly hostile)
>> monster picking up and wielding such a corpse, of course... ;-)
>
> Interesting, my Barbarian is chaotic, so I can kill the priest without
> penalty ?

It's been a long time now that I've (unnecessarily) done that.
While luck penalty is not an issue for chaotics you get a huge
alignment penalty which may or may not be an issue depending on
your game; usually it is, especially early game. The altar's god
will also strike you with lightning if you attack the priest,
possibly destroying rings and wands. (I'm not sure at the moment
whether reflection or shock resistance helps here.) After years
of playing and because of all that bad experiences, I resorted
to the simpler pet-based methods that impose no risk, penalties,
or bad side effects in the first place.

> And I've got a teleport control ring, and there's a levelport
> trap (no polymorph trap), so... :-)

I'm not sure what you are thinking here how that would help.

Janis

>> Interesting, my Barbarian is chaotic, so I can kill the priest without
>> penalty ?
>
> It's been a long time now that I've (unnecessarily) done that.
> While luck penalty is not an issue for chaotics you get a huge
> alignment penalty which may or may not be an issue depending on
> your game; usually it is, especially early game. The altar's god
> will also strike you with lightning if you attack the priest,
> possibly destroying rings and wands. (I'm not sure at the moment
> whether reflection or shock resistance helps here.) After years
> of playing and because of all that bad experiences, I resorted
> to the simpler pet-based methods that impose no risk, penalties,
> or bad side effects in the first place.

All right. Indeed, I've read somewhere that converting a temple altar
has a small risk of converting us instead, which may be a problem
for the quest... I understand that's what you're referring to with
the alignment penalty.

>> And I've got a teleport control ring, and there's a levelport
>> trap (no polymorph trap), so... :-)
>
> I'm not sure what you are thinking here how that would help.

Just to go to the mines town quickly enough so that the cockatrice
corpse does not rot away. Because I found several cockatrices around
Dlvl11, but it's too far away from mines town.