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interests / soc.history.war.misc / Pentagon says Poland’s jet offer (MiG-29s) for Ukraine ‘not tenable’

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Pentagon says Poland’s jet offer (MiG-29s) for Ukraine ‘not tenable’

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 by: a425couple - Wed, 9 Mar 2022 16:14 UTC

from
https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-europe-poland-nato-5724ff192113703d829024dc4410664e

Pentagon says Poland’s jet offer for Ukraine ‘not tenable’

By VANESSA GERA, LOLITA C. BALDOR and AAMER MADHANI
today
FILE - Two Polish Air Force Russian made Mig 29's fly above and below
two Polish Air Force U.S. made F-16's fighter jets during the Air Show
in Radom, Poland, on Aug. 27, 2011. In a private video call with
American lawmakers over the weekend, Ukrainian President Volodymyr
Zelenskyy made a “desperate” plea to the United States to help Kyiv get
more warplanes to fight Russia's invasion and retain control of its
airspace. (AP Photo/Alik Keplicz, File)
1 of 4
FILE - Two Polish Air Force Russian made Mig 29's fly above and below
two Polish Air Force U.S. made F-16's fighter jets during the Air Show
in Radom, Poland, on Aug. 27, 2011. In a private video call with
American lawmakers over the weekend, Ukrainian President Volodymyr
Zelenskyy made a “desperate” plea to the United States to help Kyiv get
more warplanes to fight Russia's invasion and retain control of its
airspace. (AP Photo/Alik Keplicz, File)
WARSAW, Poland (AP) — The Pentagon on Tuesday rejected Poland’s surprise
announcement that it would give the United States its MiG-29 fighter
jets for use by Ukraine, a rare display of disharmony by NATO allies
seeking to boost Ukrainian fighters while avoiding getting caught up in
a wider war with Russia.

Pentagon spokesman John Kirby said Poland’s declaration that it intended
to deliver the 28 jets to the U.S. Ramstein Air Base in Germany raised
the concerning prospect of warplanes departing from a U.S. and NATO base
to fly into airspace contested with Russia in the Ukraine conflict.

“We will continue to consult with Poland and our other NATO allies about
this issue and the difficult logistical challenges it presents, but we
do not believe Poland’s proposal is a tenable one,” Kirby said in a
statement.

The proposed gift of more warplanes would be a morale booster for
Ukrainians under pounding Russian assault for nearly two weeks. But it
also raises the risk of the war expanding beyond Ukraine.

ADVERTISEMENT

Russia has declared that supporting Ukraine’s air force would be
tantamount to joining the war, and could spur retaliation.

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Pentagon says Poland's jet offer for Ukraine 'not tenable'
White House officials were blindsided by the Polish announcement on the
MiGs. The proposal did not come up during talks with Secretary of State
Antony Blinken when he was recently in Poland, according to a U.S.
official familiar with the talks.

The U.S. official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, said White
House officials did not think the proposal would easily solve the
logistical challenges of providing aircraft to Ukraine.

U.S. Undersecretary of State Victoria Nuland told lawmakers at a hearing
on the Ukraine crisis Tuesday she learned of Poland’s plans only while
driving to the hearing.

“To my knowledge, it wasn’t pre-consulted with us,” Nuland told senators.

Ukraine has been pleading for more warplanes as it resists mightier
Russian forces. Washington has been looking at a proposal under which
Poland would supply Ukraine with the MiG-29s and in turn receive
American F-16s to make up for their loss. Ukrainian pilots are trained
to fly the Soviet-era fighter jets.

The Polish Foreign Ministry announced the plan in a statement, which
said the jets would be delivered to Ramstein free of charge.

“At the same time, Poland requests the United States to provide us with
used aircraft with corresponding operational capabilities,” it said.

The Polish government also appealed to other owners of MIG-29 jets to
follow suit.

Former Soviet-bloc NATO members Bulgaria and Slovakia also still have
Soviet-made fighter jets in their air forces.

ADVERTISEMENT

Poland publicly floated its plan the day before Vice President Kamala
Harris is scheduled to depart for Warsaw for talks with Polish
officials. The disconnect is likely to add an awkward layer to the
talks, which were expected to focus largely on U.S. efforts to help
Poland and other eastern European nations that have taken in some 2
million refugees since the war started.

Additional air-defense capabilities are the No. 1 priority for Ukraine’s
military right now, the country’s defense attache in Washington, Maj.
Gen. Borys Kremenetskyi, told The Associated Press on Tuesday after
returning from a meeting at the Pentagon. “It can be ground-based
air-defense systems. It can be fighter jets, whatever possible,” he said.

Ukraine also needs additional anti-tank, anti-armor weapons and coastal
defense capabilities to defend against Russian ships in the south, he said.

The handover of Poland’s 28 Soviet-made MiG-29s would signal Western
resolve to do more for Ukraine. Militarily, however, the number of
planes offered would make it unlikely to be a game-changer. And MiG-29s
are inferior to more sophisticated Russian aircraft and could be easy
prey for Russian pilots and Russian missiles.

A senior U.S. defense official has said Ukrainians are flying relatively
few of their existing aircraft, for relatively little time, as it is.
The defense official, who spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss the
U.S. assessment, said it’s possible that Ukraine does not need more
planes and would benefit most from more of the weapons it uses
effectively every day, including anti-aircraft Stinger and anti-tank
Javelin missiles.

The official also said that Russia currently has the capacity to reach
almost the entire country of Ukraine with its surface-to-air missiles,
including from within Russia and from ships in the Black Sea.

Any MiG transfer is fraught with complications. Neither NATO nor the
European Union wants to be seen as directly involved in such a
transaction, which would sharply raise already extreme tensions with Russia.

In order to maintain the pretense that NATO and the EU are not direct
participants in the Ukraine conflict, U.S. and Polish officials have
been considering a variety of options. One begins with the “donation” of
Poland’s MiGs to the United States, as Poland announced on Tuesday.

Under one scenario, Poland would deliver the fighter jets to the U.S.
base in Germany, where they would be repainted and flown to a non-NATO,
non-EU country. Ukrainian pilots would then come to fly them to Ukraine.

No country has been publicly identified as a transit point, but Kosovo,
a non-aligned country that is very friendly with the United States, has
been mentioned as one of several nations that might be willing to serve
as a middle point.

Poland’s proposed gift would also weaken Poland’s own air force at a
time of heightened danger in eastern Europe.

Poland had been asking for the U.S. to provide it with F-16 fighter jets
to replace the MiGs.

F-16 production is backlogged, however, and the next recipient in line
for new deliveries is Taiwan, which is facing renewed threats from China
and has strong support from both parties in Congress.

In its statement, the Polish government specifically asked for “used”
planes, a distinction that would allow the Biden administration to
bypass congressional opposition to making Taiwan wait to receive its F-16s.

Polish Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki said any decision about
delivering offensive weapons must be made unanimously by NATO members.

“This is why we are able to give all of our fleet of jet fighters to
Ramstein. But we are not ready to make any moves on our own because ...
we are not a party to this war,” he said.

Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell said Tuesday that he believed the
aid that Congress hopes to approve later this week for Ukraine will
include loan guarantees to help NATO allies replenish their air forces
after giving MiGs to Ukraine.

___

Baldor and Madhani reported from Washington. Ellen Knickmeyer, Ben Fox
and Alan Fram in Washington, Danica Kirka in London and Matthew Lee in
Paris also contributed.

Re: Pentagon says Poland’s jet offer (MiG-29s) for Ukraine ‘not tenable’

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 by: a425couple - Fri, 11 Mar 2022 03:39 UTC

On 3/9/2022 8:14 AM, a425couple wrote:
> from
> https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-europe-poland-nato-5724ff192113703d829024dc4410664e
>
>
> Pentagon says Poland’s jet offer for Ukraine ‘not tenable’
>
> By VANESSA GERA, LOLITA C. BALDOR and AAMER MADHANI
> today -------
>
> “We will continue to consult with Poland and our other NATO allies about
> this issue and the difficult logistical challenges it presents, but we
> do not believe Poland’s proposal is a tenable one,” Kirby said in a
> statement.
>
> The proposed gift of more warplanes would be a morale booster for
> Ukrainians under pounding Russian assault for nearly two weeks. But it
> also raises the risk of the war expanding beyond Ukraine.
>
meanwhile,,, read

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikoyan_MiG-29

Ukrainian Air Force – 37 MiG-29s in use as of March 2019[

(India over 100, but probably is not interested.)

Polish Air Force – 30 MiG-29s in service as of December 2017[198]

(But, how about Peru??!!)

Peruvian Air Force – 19 MiG-29s in service as of January 2014[182]
with 8 upgraded and 11 to be upgraded.

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