Rocksolid Light

Welcome to novaBBS (click a section below)

mail  files  register  newsreader  groups  login

Message-ID:  

You know it's Monday when you wake up and it's Tuesday. -- Garfield

interests / rec.games.backgammon / Re: 5-3 "backgame" 21 to play

SubjectAuthor
* 5-3 "backgame" 21 to playah....Clem
+* Re: 5-3 "backgame" 21 to playTimothy Chow
|`- Re: 5-3 "backgame" 21 to playStick Rice
`- Rollout 5-3 "backgame" 21 to playah....Clem

1
5-3 "backgame" 21 to play

<u87us3$16p1a$1@dont-email.me>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=12382&group=rec.games.backgammon#12382

  copy link   Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: ah_c...@ymail.com (ah....Clem)
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Subject: 5-3 "backgame" 21 to play
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2023 22:56:03 -0400
Organization: The Future Fair
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <u87us3$16p1a$1@dont-email.me>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Injection-Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2023 02:56:03 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="a2e8f9576f2517c84f59ec5aa5fc3a00";
logging-data="1270826"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX18ZuGNZo9EEuVrseatT7Bu5"
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/102.12.0
Cancel-Lock: sha1:djGdddCig34Xq2/QHUMqE7BizGs=
Content-Language: en-US
 by: ah....Clem - Fri, 7 Jul 2023 02:56 UTC

This came up in match play, but I don't think the score mattered so
recasting it as unlimited without Jacoby.

Pure play? Mobility? Hybrid? Something else?

XGID=-a---BC-C---bB---cbdBcB-A-:0:0:1:21:0:0:0:0:10

X:Player 1 O:Player 2
Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
+13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
| X O O | | O X O X X |
| X O O | | O X O X |
| O | | O O |
| | | O |
| | | |
| |BAR| |
| | | |
| | | |
| X | | X |
| O X | | X X |
| O X | | X X O |
+12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
Pip count X: 186 O: 124 X-O: 0-0
Cube: 1
X to play 21

--
Ah....Clem
The future is fun, the future is fair.

Re: 5-3 "backgame" 21 to play

<u88vch$1anr6$1@dont-email.me>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=12384&group=rec.games.backgammon#12384

  copy link   Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: tchow12...@yahoo.com (Timothy Chow)
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Subject: Re: 5-3 "backgame" 21 to play
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2023 08:10:56 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 39
Message-ID: <u88vch$1anr6$1@dont-email.me>
References: <u87us3$16p1a$1@dont-email.me>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2023 12:10:57 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="9edbbf5e46574771d32c33ff0230ff32";
logging-data="1400678"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX19j0VOk9fdRB0kkmC2sKmQxGw83vga4NY0="
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/102.12.0
Cancel-Lock: sha1:qG1vnqA2BUcWJaNQ5RQh4pWlxa8=
In-Reply-To: <u87us3$16p1a$1@dont-email.me>
Content-Language: en-US
 by: Timothy Chow - Fri, 7 Jul 2023 12:10 UTC

On 7/6/2023 10:56 PM, ah....Clem wrote:
>
> This came up in match play, but I don't think the score mattered so
> recasting it as unlimited without Jacoby.
>
> Pure play? Mobility? Hybrid? Something else?
>
>
> XGID=-a---BC-C---bB---cbdBcB-A-:0:0:1:21:0:0:0:0:10
>
> X:Player 1   O:Player 2
> Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
>  +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
>  | X           O  O |   | O  X  O  X     X |
>  | X           O  O |   | O  X  O  X       |
>  |             O    |   | O     O          |
>  |                  |   | O                |
>  |                  |   |                  |
>  |                  |BAR|                  |
>  |                  |   |                  |
>  |                  |   |                  |
>  |             X    |   | X                |
>  | O           X    |   | X  X             |
>  | O           X    |   | X  X           O |
>  +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
> Pip count  X: 186  O: 124 X-O: 0-0
> Cube: 1
> X to play 21

I'd try the pure priming play of 8/7 6/4. An alternative idea would
be to step up with 24/22, in order to be able to escape a back checker
with a 6, but I don't think we need to do that yet. That straggler is
giving us shot possibilities and is not in immediate danger of being
attacked. If we're hit, we could make a third anchor, which would be
helpful.

---
Tim Chow

Rollout 5-3 "backgame" 21 to play

<u8cab4$1qm6q$1@dont-email.me>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=12397&group=rec.games.backgammon#12397

  copy link   Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: ah_c...@ymail.com (ah....Clem)
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Subject: Rollout 5-3 "backgame" 21 to play
Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2023 14:36:21 -0400
Organization: The Future Fair
Lines: 72
Message-ID: <u8cab4$1qm6q$1@dont-email.me>
References: <u87us3$16p1a$1@dont-email.me>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2023 18:36:20 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="11324b712a5361cbee6769457355b202";
logging-data="1923290"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX18Zemzgcr/dBXnYkiW9g27/"
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/102.13.0
Cancel-Lock: sha1:i9d+fvZqko44Q81G17BaYlIVd/Y=
In-Reply-To: <u87us3$16p1a$1@dont-email.me>
Content-Language: en-US
 by: ah....Clem - Sat, 8 Jul 2023 18:36 UTC

62 pips of timing is marginal for a viable backgame, but the principles
of mobility and pure play still hold for positions like this.

I was more concerned about mobility, so I played 24/22 and then the
chicken play of 6/5. A better play would involve both mobility and pure
play, i.e. slotting either the 7 or the 4 after 24/22, with the four
being clearly better. Interestingly, a play that accomplishes neither,
8/5, comes out better in the rollout than my play.

The bot massively favors the pure pure play, which is to slot both the 7
and the four.

I'm at a loss to provide a variant here.
XGID=-a---BC-C---bB---cbdBcB-A-:0:0:1:21:0:0:0:0:10

X:Player 1 O:Player 2
Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
+13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
| X O O | | O X O X X |
| X O O | | O X O X |
| O | | O O |
| | | O |
| | | |
| |BAR| |
| | | |
| | | |
| X | | X |
| O X | | X X |
| O X | | X X O |
+12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
Pip count X: 186 O: 124 X-O: 0-0
Cube: 1
X to play 21

1. Rollout¹ 8/7 6/4 eq:-0.253
Player: 48.50% (G:9.69% B:0.39%)
Opponent: 51.50% (G:26.94% B:1.09%)
Confidence: ±0.020 (-0.273..-0.233) - [100.0%]
Duration: 10 minutes 38 seconds

2. Rollout¹ 24/23 6/4 eq:-0.333 (-0.081)
Player: 45.85% (G:8.82% B:0.36%)
Opponent: 54.15% (G:24.81% B:0.81%)
Confidence: ±0.017 (-0.351..-0.316) - [0.0%]
Duration: 10 minutes 12 seconds

3. Rollout¹ 8/5 eq:-0.375 (-0.122)
Player: 43.75% (G:8.71% B:0.36%)
Opponent: 56.25% (G:22.21% B:0.70%)
Confidence: ±0.016 (-0.391..-0.359) - [0.0%]
Duration: 9 minutes 17 seconds

4. Rollout¹ 24/22 6/5 eq:-0.397 (-0.145)
Player: 42.82% (G:8.01% B:0.33%)
Opponent: 57.18% (G:21.28% B:0.46%)
Confidence: ±0.017 (-0.414..-0.381) - [0.0%]
Duration: 10 minutes 17 seconds

5. Rollout¹ 24/22 8/7 eq:-0.403 (-0.151)
Player: 44.43% (G:8.20% B:0.34%)
Opponent: 55.57% (G:25.62% B:0.60%)
Confidence: ±0.015 (-0.419..-0.388) - [0.0%]
Duration: 9 minutes 57 seconds

¹ 1296 Games rolled with Variance Reduction.
Moves: 3-ply, cube decisions: XG Roller

eXtreme Gammon Version: 2.10

Re: 5-3 "backgame" 21 to play

<ac0dca7e-f44d-46ad-b1a3-114005dd8726n@googlegroups.com>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=12809&group=rec.games.backgammon#12809

  copy link   Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:246:b0:76d:be7d:97d9 with SMTP id q6-20020a05620a024600b0076dbe7d97d9mr7316qkn.9.1695151435022;
Tue, 19 Sep 2023 12:23:55 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6808:219d:b0:3a4:1e93:8988 with SMTP id
be29-20020a056808219d00b003a41e938988mr136989oib.10.1695151434775; Tue, 19
Sep 2023 12:23:54 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!diablo1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer02.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2023 12:23:54 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <u88vch$1anr6$1@dont-email.me>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=71.38.75.11; posting-account=yTK5ugoAAACRs3TgAz02kMublhPpKQBJ
NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.38.75.11
References: <u87us3$16p1a$1@dont-email.me> <u88vch$1anr6$1@dont-email.me>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <ac0dca7e-f44d-46ad-b1a3-114005dd8726n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: 5-3 "backgame" 21 to play
From: bananabo...@gmail.com (Stick Rice)
Injection-Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2023 19:23:55 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Received-Bytes: 3138
 by: Stick Rice - Tue, 19 Sep 2023 19:23 UTC

On Friday, July 7, 2023 at 8:10:59 AM UTC-4, Timothy Chow wrote:
> On 7/6/2023 10:56 PM, ah....Clem wrote:
> >
> > This came up in match play, but I don't think the score mattered so
> > recasting it as unlimited without Jacoby.
> >
> > Pure play? Mobility? Hybrid? Something else?
> >
> >
> > XGID=-a---BC-C---bB---cbdBcB-A-:0:0:1:21:0:0:0:0:10
> >
> > X:Player 1 O:Player 2
> > Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
> > +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
> > | X O O | | O X O X X |
> > | X O O | | O X O X |
> > | O | | O O |
> > | | | O |
> > | | | |
> > | |BAR| |
> > | | | |
> > | | | |
> > | X | | X |
> > | O X | | X X |
> > | O X | | X X O |
> > +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
> > Pip count X: 186 O: 124 X-O: 0-0
> > Cube: 1
> > X to play 21
> I'd try the pure priming play of 8/7 6/4. An alternative idea would
> be to step up with 24/22, in order to be able to escape a back checker
> with a 6, but I don't think we need to do that yet. That straggler is
> giving us shot possibilities and is not in immediate danger of being
> attacked. If we're hit, we could make a third anchor, which would be
> helpful.
>
> ---
> Tim Chow

We don't leave the checker on the 24pt there because it's giving us shot possibilities. We leave it there because stepping up to the 22pt still doesn't do a great job of allowing us to escape. If we had rolled a four for example that's not [42 22] obviously, we step up to the 20pt without hesitation.

Stick

1
server_pubkey.txt

rocksolid light 0.9.81
clearnet tor