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interests / rec.games.backgammon / Rollout: PoH and then...?

SubjectAuthor
* PoH and then...?Timothy Chow
+* Re: PoH and then...?Stick Rice
|`- Re: PoH and then...?Robert Zimmerman
+- Re: PoH and then...?ah...Clem
`- Rollout: PoH and then...?Timothy Chow

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PoH and then...?

<uf9akd$u0ia$2@dont-email.me>

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From: tchow12...@yahoo.com (Timothy Chow)
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Subject: PoH and then...?
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2023 10:16:44 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Timothy Chow - Sat, 30 Sep 2023 14:16 UTC

XGID=---aCBB-BA--bB-bAbbcc-B---:0:0:1:55:0:0:0:0:10

Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
+13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
| X O X O O | | O O X |
| X O O O | | O O X |
| | | O O |
| | | |
| | | |
| |BAR| |
| | | |
| | | |
| | | X |
| O X | | X X X |
| O X X | | X X X O |
+12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
Pip count X: 145 O: 131 X-O: 0-0
Cube: 1
X to play 55

---
Tim Chow

Re: PoH and then...?

<f8470776-1744-46b2-b2e2-85942ff0f6efn@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: PoH and then...?
From: bananabo...@gmail.com (Stick Rice)
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 by: Stick Rice - Sun, 1 Oct 2023 16:36 UTC

On Saturday, September 30, 2023 at 10:16:47 AM UTC-4, Timothy Chow wrote:
> XGID=---aCBB-BA--bB-bAbbcc-B---:0:0:1:55:0:0:0:0:10
>
> Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
> +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
> | X O X O O | | O O X |
> | X O O O | | O O X |
> | | | O O |
> | | | |
> | | | |
> | |BAR| |
> | | | |
> | | | |
> | | | X |
> | O X | | X X X |
> | O X X | | X X X O |
> +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
> Pip count X: 145 O: 131 X-O: 0-0
> Cube: 1
> X to play 55
>
> ---
> Tim Chow

The rest seems clear as we may want to/need to continue the attack and to do this diversifying our numbers (not duping sixes specifically) there is only one play.

Stick

Re: PoH and then...?

<be395a22-726d-433f-bd67-351172699613n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: PoH and then...?
From: zimbrook...@gmail.com (Robert Zimmerman)
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 by: Robert Zimmerman - Sun, 1 Oct 2023 16:56 UTC

On Sunday, October 1, 2023 at 12:36:03 PM UTC-4, Stick Rice wrote:
> On Saturday, September 30, 2023 at 10:16:47 AM UTC-4, Timothy Chow wrote:
> > XGID=---aCBB-BA--bB-bAbbcc-B---:0:0:1:55:0:0:0:0:10
> >
> > Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
> > +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
> > | X O X O O | | O O X |
> > | X O O O | | O O X |
> > | | | O O |
> > | | | |
> > | | | |
> > | |BAR| |
> > | | | |
> > | | | |
> > | | | X |
> > | O X | | X X X |
> > | O X X | | X X X O |
> > +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
> > Pip count X: 145 O: 131 X-O: 0-0
> > Cube: 1
> > X to play 55
> >
> > ---
> > Tim Chow
> The rest seems clear as we may want to/need to continue the attack and to do this diversifying our numbers (not duping sixes specifically) there is only one play.
>
> Stick

I liked peppering the outfield, but duplicating 6's is the problem.
Bob

Re: PoH and then...?

<ufcmq5$2gkbt$2@dont-email.me>

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From: ah_c...@ymail.com (ah...Clem)
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Subject: Re: PoH and then...?
Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2023 17:02:58 -0400
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 by: ah...Clem - Sun, 1 Oct 2023 21:02 UTC

On 9/30/2023 10:16 AM, Timothy Chow wrote:
> XGID=---aCBB-BA--bB-bAbbcc-B---:0:0:1:55:0:0:0:0:10
>
> Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
>  +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
>  | X     O  X  O  O |   | O  O     X       |
>  | X     O     O  O |   | O  O     X       |
>  |                  |   | O  O             |
>  |                  |   |                  |
>  |                  |   |                  |
>  |                  |BAR|                  |
>  |                  |   |                  |
>  |                  |   |                  |
>  |                  |   |       X          |
>  | O           X    |   | X  X  X          |
>  | O        X  X    |   | X  X  X  O       |
>  +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
> Pip count  X: 145  O: 131 X-O: 0-0
> Cube: 1
> X to play 55

Re-making the eight point after the POH has it's merits, but with two
runners to spring so does keeping the midpoint. I'll go for 16/6 since
re-making the eight dupes sixes. Not sure.

Rollout: PoH and then...?

<ufh5g7$3itl2$1@dont-email.me>

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From: tchow12...@yahoo.com (Timothy Chow)
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Subject: Rollout: PoH and then...?
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2023 09:38:14 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Timothy Chow - Tue, 3 Oct 2023 13:38 UTC

XGID=---aCBB-BA--bB-bAbbcc-B---:0:0:1:55:0:0:0:0:10

Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
+13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
| X O X O O | | O O X |
| X O O O | | O O X |
| | | O O |
| | | |
| | | |
| |BAR| |
| | | |
| | | |
| | | X |
| O X | | X X X |
| O X X | | X X X O |
+12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
Pip count X: 145 O: 131 X-O: 0-0
Cube: 1
X to play 55

We want more builders in the zone. 13/8(2) is a candidate, but 16/6
reduces O's return shots, and a builder on the 6pt is a bit more
effective than a builder on the 8pt. Duplicated sixes play some role,
but 16/6 would be XG's clear choice even without duplicates sixes
(see Variant 2).

1. Rollout¹ 16/6 8/3*(2) eq:+0.334
Player: 55.27% (G:25.84% B:0.48%)
Opponent: 44.73% (G:9.35% B:0.53%)
Confidence: ±0.014 (+0.320..+0.347) - [100.0%]

2. Rollout¹ 16/11 13/3* 8/3 eq:+0.227 (-0.106)
Player: 52.90% (G:23.71% B:0.54%)
Opponent: 47.10% (G:10.39% B:0.64%)
Confidence: ±0.013 (+0.214..+0.240) - [0.0%]

3. Rollout¹ 13/3*(2) eq:+0.223 (-0.111)
Player: 52.82% (G:23.50% B:0.60%)
Opponent: 47.18% (G:10.04% B:0.47%)
Confidence: ±0.014 (+0.209..+0.237) - [0.0%]

¹ 1296 Games rolled with Variance Reduction.
Dice Seed: 271828
Moves: 3-ply, cube decisions: XG Roller

eXtreme Gammon Version: 2.19.211.pre-release

---------
Variant 1
---------

XGID=---aCBB-BA--bBAb-bbcc-B---:0:0:1:55:0:0:0:0:10

Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
+13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
| X X O O O | | O O X |
| X O O O | | O O X |
| | | O O |
| | | |
| | | |
| |BAR| |
| | | |
| | | |
| | | X |
| O X | | X X X |
| O X X | | X X X O |
+12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
Pip count X: 143 O: 131 X-O: 0-0
Cube: 1
X to play 55

1. Rollout¹ 13/3*(2) eq:+0.212
Player: 52.49% (G:23.61% B:0.55%)
Opponent: 47.51% (G:9.84% B:0.57%)
Confidence: ±0.007 (+0.204..+0.219) - [100.0%]

2. Rollout¹ 14/4 8/3*(2) eq:+0.186 (-0.026)
Player: 51.99% (G:22.72% B:0.47%)
Opponent: 48.01% (G:9.76% B:0.49%)
Confidence: ±0.007 (+0.179..+0.193) - [0.0%]

3. Rollout¹ 13/3* 8/3(2) eq:+0.176 (-0.036)
Player: 51.36% (G:23.66% B:0.48%)
Opponent: 48.64% (G:10.71% B:0.66%)
Confidence: ±0.007 (+0.169..+0.183) - [0.0%]

4. Rollout¹ 14/9 13/3* 8/3 eq:+0.165 (-0.047)
Player: 51.12% (G:22.90% B:0.49%)
Opponent: 48.88% (G:9.92% B:0.54%)
Confidence: ±0.007 (+0.158..+0.172) - [0.0%]

¹ 5184 Games rolled with Variance Reduction.
Dice Seed: 271828
Moves: 3-ply, cube decisions: XG Roller

eXtreme Gammon Version: 2.19.211.pre-release

---------
Variant 2
---------

XGID=---aCBB-BA--bB-bAbbcc--B--:0:0:1:55:0:0:0:0:10

Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
+13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
| X O X O O | | O O X |
| X O O O | | O O X |
| | | O O |
| | | |
| | | |
| |BAR| |
| | | |
| | | |
| | | X |
| O X | | X X X |
| O X X | | X X X O |
+12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
Pip count X: 147 O: 131 X-O: 0-0
Cube: 1
X to play 55

1. Rollout¹ 16/6 8/3*(2) eq:-0.086
Player: 44.49% (G:20.83% B:0.39%)
Opponent: 55.51% (G:12.53% B:0.66%)
Confidence: ±0.016 (-0.102..-0.070) - [100.0%]

2. Rollout¹ 16/11 13/3* 8/3 eq:-0.159 (-0.072)
Player: 42.80% (G:19.57% B:0.51%)
Opponent: 57.20% (G:14.33% B:0.94%)
Confidence: ±0.015 (-0.174..-0.143) - [0.0%]

3. Rollout¹ 13/3*(2) eq:-0.184 (-0.098)
Player: 42.22% (G:18.56% B:0.49%)
Opponent: 57.78% (G:13.56% B:0.71%)
Confidence: ±0.015 (-0.198..-0.169) - [0.0%]

4. Rollout¹ 16/11 9/4 8/3*(2) eq:-0.195 (-0.108)
Player: 42.30% (G:18.74% B:0.45%)
Opponent: 57.70% (G:13.25% B:0.67%)
Confidence: ±0.015 (-0.209..-0.180) - [0.0%]

¹ 1296 Games rolled with Variance Reduction.
Dice Seed: 271828
Moves: 3-ply, cube decisions: XG Roller

eXtreme Gammon Version: 2.19.211.pre-release

---
Tim Chow

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