This may well be an commonplace usage which I've simply not previously
clocked, but I've noticed newspaper reports from Ukraine using
"corpse" where I think I'd opt for "dead body". ("We saw corpses lying
on both sides of the road.")

There's obviously nothing wrong with "corpse"; it's a perfectly
accurate term. Nonetheless, it strikes me as being more emotive and
gruesome than "body". (Maybe I've watched too many horror movies,
where it's definitely the case that corpses rather than bodies are re-
animatead...)

Is this a personal quirk of mine, or do others find "corpse" stronger
than "body"? Is it likely to be a conscious -- and perfectly valid --
editorial decision to use a word with more horrifying overtones, rather
than a more neutral term?

--
Cheers, Harvey

* HVS <XnsAE8C848E25C0Ewhhvans@144.76.35.252> :
Wrote on Tue, 03 May 2022 13:01:50 +0100:
> Is this a personal quirk of mine, or do others find "corpse" stronger
> than "body"? Is it likely to be a conscious -- and perfectly valid --
> editorial decision to use a word with more horrifying overtones, rather
> than a more neutral term?

I'm a cadaver, you're a corpse, he's a carcase.

On Tuesday, May 3, 2022 at 11:39:12 PM UTC-4, Madhu wrote:
> * HVS <XnsAE8C848E...@144.76.35.252> :
> Wrote on Tue, 03 May 2022 13:01:50 +0100:
> > Is this a personal quirk of mine, or do others find "corpse" stronger
> > than "body"? Is it likely to be a conscious -- and perfectly valid --
> > editorial decision to use a word with more horrifying overtones, rather
> > than a more neutral term?
> I'm a cadaver, you're a corpse, he's a carcase.

That's carcass, BTW.

Le 03/05/2022 à 13:01, HVS a écrit :
>
> This may well be an commonplace usage which I've simply not previously
> clocked, but I've noticed newspaper reports from Ukraine using
> "corpse" where I think I'd opt for "dead body". ("We saw corpses lying
> on both sides of the road.")
>
> There's obviously nothing wrong with "corpse"; it's a perfectly
> accurate term. Nonetheless, it strikes me as being more emotive and
> gruesome than "body". (Maybe I've watched too many horror movies,
> where it's definitely the case that corpses rather than bodies are re-
> animatead...)
>
> Is this a personal quirk of mine, or do others find "corpse" stronger
> than "body"? Is it likely to be a conscious -- and perfectly valid --
> editorial decision to use a word with more horrifying overtones, rather
> than a more neutral term?

I'm not sure I see 'corpse' as stronger than 'dead body' - but then, I
have long since given up watching horror films.

Indeed, while I was mulling the question, actors and the verb came to mind.

If I were a journalist, I think I'd opt for 'dead body', because I find
it more strongly suggests it was recently alive. 'Corpse' evokes a
mortuary, a slab, and puzzled detectives.

HVS <office@REMOVETHISwhhvs.co.uk> writes:
>Is this a personal quirk of mine, or do others find "corpse" stronger
>than "body"?

"Body" can also mean the living body. It is not a euphemism
when used for "corpse", but the perceived connection of the
word to death is weaker.

|Your body, my body
|Everybody move your body
from a popular song

On 04 May 2022, Stefan Ram wrote

> HVS <office@REMOVETHISwhhvs.co.uk> writes:
>> Is this a personal quirk of mine, or do others find "corpse"
>> stronger than "body"?
>
> "Body" can also mean the living body. It is not a euphemism
> when used for "corpse", but the perceived connection of the
> word to death is weaker.

I assumed that "dead" would be taken as understood after my (snipped)
first-paragraph reference to "dead body", but I guess I assumed too
much.

--
Cheers, Harvey

HVS <office@REMOVETHISwhhvs.co.uk> writes:
>I assumed that "dead" would be taken as understood after my (snipped)
>first-paragraph reference to "dead body", but I guess I assumed too
>much.

"Body" can mean "dead body" even without the adjective "dead".

|body, n.
....
|2. A corpse.  [Perhaps originally a euphemistic shortening of
|"dead body", although this sense is common in Old High German
|(see discussion in main etymology).]
....
|as soon as the body is deposited in the grave,
....
|In the ghastly pit long since a body was found.
....
|A heavy object was dragged across the deck. A body, by God...
....
|When I dead an' gone I don' care you know, you could feed my
|body to dog.
....
|He had decided to have his body cremated and scattered over
|the Ganges River.

On Wed, 4 May 2022 09:16:15 +0100, Hibou <h.i@b.ou> wrote:

>Le 03/05/2022 à 13:01, HVS a écrit :
>>
>> This may well be an commonplace usage which I've simply not previously
>> clocked, but I've noticed newspaper reports from Ukraine using
>> "corpse" where I think I'd opt for "dead body". ("We saw corpses lying
>> on both sides of the road.")
>>
>> There's obviously nothing wrong with "corpse"; it's a perfectly
>> accurate term. Nonetheless, it strikes me as being more emotive and
>> gruesome than "body". (Maybe I've watched too many horror movies,
>> where it's definitely the case that corpses rather than bodies are re-
>> animatead...)
>>
>> Is this a personal quirk of mine, or do others find "corpse" stronger
>> than "body"? Is it likely to be a conscious -- and perfectly valid --
>> editorial decision to use a word with more horrifying overtones, rather
>> than a more neutral term?
>
>I'm not sure I see 'corpse' as stronger than 'dead body'

Nor do I.

>- but then, I
>have long since given up watching horror films.
>
>Indeed, while I was mulling the question, actors and the verb came to mind.
>
>If I were a journalist, I think I'd opt for 'dead body', because I find
>it more strongly suggests it was recently alive. 'Corpse' evokes a
>mortuary, a slab, and puzzled detectives.

"Dead body" is redundant. Just "body" would do,

On 4 May 2022 12:07:06 GMT, ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) wrote:

>HVS <office@REMOVETHISwhhvs.co.uk> writes:
>>Is this a personal quirk of mine, or do others find "corpse" stronger
>>than "body"?
>
> "Body" can also mean the living body.

"Can" mean? Yes, but not if "bodies" is substituted for "corpses" in
the quoted sentence "We saw corpses lying on both sides of the road."

> It is not a euphemism
> when used for "corpse", but the perceived connection of the
> word to death is weaker.

On Wed, 04 May 2022 15:11:15 +0100, HVS <office@REMOVETHISwhhvs.co.uk>
wrote:

>On 04 May 2022, Stefan Ram wrote
>
>> HVS <office@REMOVETHISwhhvs.co.uk> writes:
>>> Is this a personal quirk of mine, or do others find "corpse"
>>> stronger than "body"?
>>
>> "Body" can also mean the living body. It is not a euphemism
>> when used for "corpse", but the perceived connection of the
>> word to death is weaker.
>
>I assumed that "dead" would be taken as understood after my (snipped)
>first-paragraph reference to "dead body", but I guess I assumed too
>much.

No, your assumption is correct.

* Stefan Ram:

> HVS <office@REMOVETHISwhhvs.co.uk> writes:
>>I assumed that "dead" would be taken as understood after my (snipped)
>>first-paragraph reference to "dead body", but I guess I assumed too
>>much.
>
> "Body" can mean "dead body" even without the adjective "dead".
>
>|body, n.
> ...
>|2. A corpse.  [Perhaps originally a euphemistic shortening of
>|"dead body", although this sense is common in Old High German
>|(see discussion in main etymology).]
> ...
>|as soon as the body is deposited in the grave,
> ...
>|In the ghastly pit long since a body was found.
> ...
>|A heavy object was dragged across the deck. A body, by God...
> ...
>|When I dead an' gone I don' care you know, you could feed my
>|body to dog.
> ...
>|He had decided to have his body cremated and scattered over
>|the Ganges River.

I don't think "body" *means* "dead body" in these examples. It is
understood that most of these things would only be done to a body when
it's dead, so "dead" is left out. It's not the context that
disambiguates language, language disambiguates what isn't already clear
in context (C. F. Hockett).

The body that is dragged is an exception - it might be alive, for all I
know.

--
- History is full of lies.
- Ain't that the truth.
-- Andromeda, S04E12

On 04-May-22 16:31, Ken Blake wrote:
>
> "Dead body" is redundant. Just "body" would do,

?? I have a body, and to quote Monty Python "I'm not dead yet."

--
Sam Plusnet

Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> writes:
>On 04-May-22 16:31, Ken Blake wrote:
>>"Dead body" is redundant. Just "body" would do,
>?? I have a body, and to quote Monty Python "I'm not dead yet."

"Over my body" also is not as clear as "Over my dead body".

The dictionary is quite simple:

body
1. human being (in its physicality)
2. carcasss

corpse
1. carcass

. I'v written "carcass" above, but needed to resist from
writing "lyke". I know "Lyke Wake Dirge", so there must
be a "lyke".

(You guys might know "Lyke Wake Dirge" from Pentangle;
I suggest to also listen to the version by "The Young
Tradition"!)

On 4 May 2022 19:36:19 GMT
ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) wrote:

> Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> writes:
> >On 04-May-22 16:31, Ken Blake wrote:
> >>"Dead body" is redundant. Just "body" would do,
> >?? I have a body, and to quote Monty Python "I'm not dead yet."
>
> "Over my body" also is not as clear as "Over my dead body".
>
> The dictionary is quite simple:
>
> body
> 1. human being (in its physicality)
> 2. carcasss
>
> corpse
> 1. carcass
>
> . I'v written "carcass" above, but needed to resist from
> writing "lyke". I know "Lyke Wake Dirge", so there must
> be a "lyke".
>
> (You guys might know "Lyke Wake Dirge" from Pentangle;
> I suggest to also listen to the version by "The Young
> Tradition"!)

I'm not that up on these things, but there's a Lyke Wake Walk.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyke_Wake_Walk
Ah to memoralise (word?) the dirge.

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

* Stefan Ram:

> Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> writes:
>>On 04-May-22 16:31, Ken Blake wrote:
>>>"Dead body" is redundant. Just "body" would do,
>>?? I have a body, and to quote Monty Python "I'm not dead yet."
>
> "Over my body" also is not as clear as "Over my dead body".
>
> The dictionary is quite simple:
>
> body
> 1. human being (in its physicality)
> 2. carcasss
>
> corpse
> 1. carcass

Ah yes, the one dictionary of English in existence!

--
New Zealand - or as we call it in South Africa: New Zedland ...
-- Trevor Noah

On 04-May-22 20:36, Stefan Ram wrote:
> Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> writes:
>> On 04-May-22 16:31, Ken Blake wrote:
>>> "Dead body" is redundant. Just "body" would do,
>> ?? I have a body, and to quote Monty Python "I'm not dead yet."
>
> "Over my body" also is not as clear as "Over my dead body".
>
> The dictionary is quite simple:
>
> body
> 1. human being (in its physicality)
> 2. carcasss
>
> corpse
> 1. carcass
>
> . I'v written "carcass" above, but needed to resist from
> writing "lyke". I know "Lyke Wake Dirge", so there must
> be a "lyke".
>
> (You guys might know "Lyke Wake Dirge" from Pentangle;
> I suggest to also listen to the version by "The Young
> Tradition"!)

Here are more bodies than you can shake a stick at (all alive alive-o):

Comin thro' the Rye
BY ROBERT BURNS

Gin a body meet a body, comin thro' the rye,
Gin a body kiss a body, need a body cry;
Ilka body has a body, ne'er a ane hae I;
But a' the lads they loe me, and what the waur am I.

Gin a body meet a body, comin frae the well,
Gin a body kiss a body, need a body tell;
Ilka body has a body, ne'er a ane hae I,
But a the lads they loe me, and what the waur am I.

Gin a body meet a body, comin frae the town,
Gin a body kiss a body, need a body gloom;
Ilka Jenny has her Jockey, ne'er a ane hae I,
But a' the lads they loe me, and what the waur am I.

--
Sam Plusnet

On 5/4/2022 3:36 PM, Stefan Ram wrote:
> Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> writes:
>> Ken Blake wrote:

>>> "Dead body" is redundant. Just "body" would do,
>> ?? I have a body, and to quote Monty Python "I'm not dead yet."

> "Over my body" also is not as clear as "Over my dead body".

> The dictionary is quite simple:

> body 1. human being (in its physicality) 2. carcasss

> corpse 1. carcass

> . I'v written "carcass" above, but needed to resist from writing
> "lyke". I know "Lyke Wake Dirge", so there must be a "lyke".

You could check under the lych-gate.

"Lyke" is the Scottish or northern version of the word; "lych" is the
southern.

> (You guys might know "Lyke Wake Dirge" from Pentangle; I suggest to
> also listen to the version by "The Young Tradition"!)

Or Buffy Sainte-Marie.

In message <XnsAE8C848E25C0Ewhhvans@144.76.35.252> HVS <office@REMOVETHISwhhvs.co.uk> wrote:
> This may well be an commonplace usage which I've simply not previously
> clocked, but I've noticed newspaper reports from Ukraine using
> "corpse" where I think I'd opt for "dead body". ("We saw corpses lying
> on both sides of the road.")

I think corpses is the right word.

> There's obviously nothing wrong with "corpse"; it's a perfectly
> accurate term. Nonetheless, it strikes me as being more emotive and
> gruesome than "body".

That is one reason that corpse is the right word.

> (Maybe I've watched too many horror movies, where it's definitely the
> case that corpses rather than bodies are re- animatead...)

Corpse means a dead HUMAN body, exclusively.

A dead body is not necessarily human, it would be any animal, from flea
on up.

> Is this a personal quirk of mine

It might just be not knowing the definitions of the two words?

--
Never trust a man who, when left alone in a room with a tea cosy,
doesn't try it on -- Billy Connolly

In message <41757htop5bl1j1roek9pmls08evnqfmk0@4ax.com> Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:

> "Dead body" is redundant. Just "body" would do,

Strong disagreement.

Bodies can be wounded people, or dead cats. Or live cats sleeping next
to the road, for that matter.

Yes, when talking about a war, saying 'bodies' will probably the same
meaning as 'corpses' but a much weaker sense.

--
"Are you pondering what I'm pondering?"
"I think so, Brain, but pants with horizontal stripes make me look
chubby."

Le 04/05/2022 à 16:31, Ken Blake a écrit :
> On Wed, 4 May 2022 09:16:15 +0100, Hibou wrote:
>>
>> If I were a journalist, I think I'd opt for 'dead body', because I find
>> it more strongly suggests it was recently alive. 'Corpse' evokes a
>> mortuary, a slab, and puzzled detectives.
>
> "Dead body" is redundant. Just "body" would do,

I think the default meaning depends on context. After the massacre,
there were bodies everywhere. The beach was packed with bodies sunning
themselves. She had a beautiful body.

The saying "Over my dead body!" just doesn't work without the 'dead'.

On 2022-05-05 23:18:14 +0000, Lewis said:

> In message <XnsAE8C848E25C0Ewhhvans@144.76.35.252> HVS
> <office@REMOVETHISwhhvs.co.uk> wrote:
>> This may well be an commonplace usage which I've simply not previously
>> clocked, but I've noticed newspaper reports from Ukraine using
>> "corpse" where I think I'd opt for "dead body". ("We saw corpses lying
>> on both sides of the road.")
>
> I think corpses is the right word.
>
>> There's obviously nothing wrong with "corpse"; it's a perfectly
>> accurate term. Nonetheless, it strikes me as being more emotive and
>> gruesome than "body".
>
> That is one reason that corpse is the right word.
>
>> (Maybe I've watched too many horror movies, where it's definitely the
>> case that corpses rather than bodies are re- animatead...)
>
> Corpse means a dead HUMAN body, exclusively.
>
> A dead body is not necessarily human, it would be any animal, from flea
> on up.
>
>> Is this a personal quirk of mine
>
> It might just be not knowing the definitions of the two words?

Where does "cadaver" fit into this scheme? It's not a word I use, ever,
and it's not usual in British English, but I think it does occur in
American speech.

--
Athel -- French and British, living mainly in England until 1987.

Athel Cornish-Bowden asserted that:
> On 2022-05-05 23:18:14 +0000, Lewis said:
>
>> In message <XnsAE8C848E25C0Ewhhvans@144.76.35.252> HVS
>> <office@REMOVETHISwhhvs.co.uk> wrote:
>>> This may well be an commonplace usage which I've simply not previously
>>> clocked, but I've noticed newspaper reports from Ukraine using
>>> "corpse" where I think I'd opt for "dead body". ("We saw corpses lying
>>> on both sides of the road.")
>>
>> I think corpses is the right word.
>>
>>> There's obviously nothing wrong with "corpse"; it's a perfectly
>>> accurate term. Nonetheless, it strikes me as being more emotive and
>>> gruesome than "body".
>>
>> That is one reason that corpse is the right word.
>>
>>> (Maybe I've watched too many horror movies, where it's definitely the
>>> case that corpses rather than bodies are re- animatead...)
>>
>> Corpse means a dead HUMAN body, exclusively.
>>
>> A dead body is not necessarily human, it would be any animal, from flea
>> on up.
>>
>>> Is this a personal quirk of mine
>>
>> It might just be not knowing the definitions of the two words?
>
> Where does "cadaver" fit into this scheme? It's not a word I use, ever, and
> it's not usual in British English, but I think it does occur in American
> speech.

Most frequently in anatomy classes, AFAIKT. The second largest bucket
would be in the work of coroners (AmE version).

/dps

--
"Inviting people to laugh with you while you are laughing at yourself
is a good thing to do, You may be a fool but you're the fool in
charge." -- Carl Reiner

On 06/05/22 20:06, Snidely wrote:
> Athel Cornish-Bowden asserted that:
>> On 2022-05-05 23:18:14 +0000, Lewis said:
>>
>>> In message <XnsAE8C848E25C0Ewhhvans@144.76.35.252> HVS
>>> <office@REMOVETHISwhhvs.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> This may well be an commonplace usage which I've simply not previously
>>>> clocked, but I've noticed newspaper reports from Ukraine using
>>>> "corpse" where I think I'd opt for "dead body". ("We saw corpses lying
>>>> on both sides of the road.")
>>>
>>> I think corpses is the right word.
>>>
>>>> There's obviously nothing wrong with "corpse"; it's a perfectly
>>>> accurate term. Nonetheless, it strikes me as being more emotive and
>>>> gruesome than "body".
>>>
>>> That is one reason that corpse is the right word.
>>>
>>>> (Maybe I've watched too many horror movies, where it's definitely the
>>>> case that corpses rather than bodies are re- animatead...)
>>>
>>> Corpse means a dead HUMAN body, exclusively.
>>>
>>> A dead body is not necessarily human, it would be any animal, from flea
>>> on up.
>>>
>>>> Is this a personal quirk of mine
>>>
>>> It might just be not knowing the definitions of the two words?
>>
>> Where does "cadaver" fit into this scheme? It's not a word I use,
>> ever, and it's not usual in British English, but I think it does occur
>> in American speech.
>
> Most frequently in anatomy classes, AFAIKT. The second largest bucket
> would be in the work of coroners (AmE version).

I vaguely remember that the Wizard of Id once had a reanimated corpse
called Abra Cadaver.

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

In message <jdjvakFm62tU1@mid.individual.net> Athel Cornish-Bowden <acornish@imm.cnrs.fr> wrote:
> On 2022-05-05 23:18:14 +0000, Lewis said:

>> In message <XnsAE8C848E25C0Ewhhvans@144.76.35.252> HVS
>> <office@REMOVETHISwhhvs.co.uk> wrote:
>>> This may well be an commonplace usage which I've simply not previously
>>> clocked, but I've noticed newspaper reports from Ukraine using
>>> "corpse" where I think I'd opt for "dead body". ("We saw corpses lying
>>> on both sides of the road.")
>>
>> I think corpses is the right word.
>>
>>> There's obviously nothing wrong with "corpse"; it's a perfectly
>>> accurate term. Nonetheless, it strikes me as being more emotive and
>>> gruesome than "body".
>>
>> That is one reason that corpse is the right word.
>>
>>> (Maybe I've watched too many horror movies, where it's definitely the
>>> case that corpses rather than bodies are re- animatead...)
>>
>> Corpse means a dead HUMAN body, exclusively.
>>
>> A dead body is not necessarily human, it would be any animal, from flea
>> on up.
>>
>>> Is this a personal quirk of mine
>>
>> It might just be not knowing the definitions of the two words?

> Where does "cadaver" fit into this scheme? It's not a word I use, ever,
> and it's not usual in British English, but I think it does occur in
> American speech.

Cadaver is pretty much restricted to medical/legal use, AFAIK. It is a perfect
synonym for corpse, but has a more clinical/technical feeling to it.
Cadaver is a word I expect from coroners, morgue attendants, possibly
morticians, cops, and not geneally from anyone else.

--
Secondly, the Earth's a Libra

On Fri, 6 May 2022 06:29:07 +0100, Hibou <h.i@b.ou> wrote:

>Le 04/05/2022 à 16:31, Ken Blake a écrit :
>> On Wed, 4 May 2022 09:16:15 +0100, Hibou wrote:
>>>
>>> If I were a journalist, I think I'd opt for 'dead body', because I find
>>> it more strongly suggests it was recently alive. 'Corpse' evokes a
>>> mortuary, a slab, and puzzled detectives.
>>
>> "Dead body" is redundant. Just "body" would do,
>
>I think the default meaning depends on context. After the massacre,
>there were bodies everywhere. The beach was packed with bodies sunning
>themselves. She had a beautiful body.

Yes, my point exactly. "Dead body" was redundant in the quoted
passage..