On Friday, July 5, 2002 at 11:49:14 PM UTC+1, Charles wrote:
> On 5 Jul 2002 09:22:36 -0700, astramam...@yahoo.com (Laden ,
> Trash bin) wrote:
> >Hi there!,
> > I have often wondered who is the best author (both living and dead)
> >in English.
> Stephen King. He "lives" in Bangor, Maine, but that isn't really
> living, so he is both living and dead.

Since you are reviving ancient threads:

"Third boxcar, midnight train
Destination Bangor, Maine..."

On 2022-05-10 15:41, spains...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, July 5, 2002 at 11:49:14 PM UTC+1, Charles wrote:
>> On 5 Jul 2002 09:22:36 -0700, astramam...@yahoo.com (Laden ,
>> Trash bin) wrote:
>>> Hi there!,
>>> I have often wondered who is the best author (both living and dead)
>>> in English.
>> Stephen King. He "lives" in Bangor, Maine, but that isn't really
>> living, so he is both living and dead.
>
> Since you are reviving ancient threads:
>
> "Third boxcar, midnight train
> Destination Bangor, Maine..."

A lady game in for a ticket.
I asked, "Where would you like to go?"
"Bangor," she said; bang 'er I did.
I'll never work there any more.

--
Asking if a computer can think is like asking if a submarine can swim.

Den 11-05-2022 kl. 02:30 skrev lar3ryca:
> On 2022-05-10 15:41, spains...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Friday, July 5, 2002 at 11:49:14 PM UTC+1, Charles wrote:
>>> On 5 Jul 2002 09:22:36 -0700, astramam...@yahoo.com (Laden ,
>>> Trash bin) wrote:
>>>> Hi there!,
>>>> I have often wondered who is the best author (both living and dead)
>>>> in English.
>>> Stephen King. He "lives" in Bangor, Maine, but that isn't really
>>> living, so he is both living and dead.
>> Since you are reviving ancient threads:
>> "Third boxcar, midnight train
>> Destination Bangor, Maine..."
>
> A lady game in for a ticket.
> I asked, "Where would you like to go?"
> "Bangor," she said; bang 'er I did.
> I'll never work there any more.

A traveller came in for a return ticket.
I asked, "Where would you like to go?"
"Here, of course!"

/Anders, Denmark

On 12/05/22 06:17, Anders D. Nygaard wrote:
>
> A traveller came in for a return ticket.
> I asked, "Where would you like to go?"
> "Here, of course!"

When in France I learnt to ask for an "aller-retour", which made sense
to me because literally it means "go-return".

Then in Antwerp I had to learn "heen en terug", which always sounded to
me like "there and back again".

You have now prompted me to look up the Danish. "Returbillet" sounds to
me as if it were for only the second half of the journey.

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 4:59:41 PM UTC-7, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 12/05/22 06:17, Anders D. Nygaard wrote:
> >
> > A traveller came in for a return ticket.
> > I asked, "Where would you like to go?"
> > "Here, of course!"
> When in France I learnt to ask for an "aller-retour", which made sense
> to me because literally it means "go-return".
>
> Then in Antwerp I had to learn "heen en terug", which always sounded to
> me like "there and back again".
>
I think just "retour" did the job in Dutch in the 1950s. We had family in
Rotterdam and we'd visit back and forth a few times a year. It was too
far for bicycling and not many people owned cars, so the train was the
handiest means of transport.

Also, a lot of people commuted by bike *and* train. Local train stations
had large halls with massive bike racks. Many people in my hometown
worked in Rotterdam. They'd bicycle to the station, park in the bike room,
take the train to work and return by train at the end of the day to bicycle home.

bill

bil...@shaw.ca <billvan@shaw.ca> wrote:

> On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 4:59:41 PM UTC-7, Peter Moylan wrote:
> > On 12/05/22 06:17, Anders D. Nygaard wrote:
> > >
> > > A traveller came in for a return ticket.
> > > I asked, "Where would you like to go?"
> > > "Here, of course!"
> > When in France I learnt to ask for an "aller-retour", which made sense
> > to me because literally it means "go-return".
> >
> > Then in Antwerp I had to learn "heen en terug", which always sounded to
> > me like "there and back again".
> >
> I think just "retour" did the job in Dutch in the 1950s. We had family in
> Rotterdam and we'd visit back and forth a few times a year. It was too
> far for bicycling and not many people owned cars, so the train was the
> handiest means of transport.

Yes, '(een) retour(tje) Rotterdam' would do it.
This would get you the default second class one.
If you wanted first class you needed to say 'retour eerste Rotterdam'.
In those days there was a 'loket' where you actually bought
those stiff cardboard train tickets.

> Also, a lot of people commuted by bike *and* train. Local train stations
> had large halls with massive bike racks. Many people in my hometown worked
> in Rotterdam. They'd bicycle to the station, park in the bike room, take
> the train to work and return by train at the end of the day to bicycle
> home.

What do you mead 'had'?
Utrecht in particular is notorious for the bicycling crows.
They claim to have the biggest bicycle park in the world,
(having beaten Tokyo)

Jan

On Wed, 11 May 2022 17:50:31 -0700 (PDT)
"bil...@shaw.ca" <billvan@shaw.ca> wrote:

> On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 4:59:41 PM UTC-7, Peter Moylan wrote:
> > On 12/05/22 06:17, Anders D. Nygaard wrote:
> > >
> > > A traveller came in for a return ticket.
> > > I asked, "Where would you like to go?"
> > > "Here, of course!"
> > When in France I learnt to ask for an "aller-retour", which made sense
> > to me because literally it means "go-return".
> >
> > Then in Antwerp I had to learn "heen en terug", which always sounded to
> > me like "there and back again".
> >
> I think just "retour" did the job in Dutch in the 1950s. We had family in
> Rotterdam and we'd visit back and forth a few times a year. It was too
> far for bicycling and not many people owned cars, so the train was the
> handiest means of transport.
>
> Also, a lot of people commuted by bike *and* train. Local train stations
> had large halls with massive bike racks. Many people in my hometown
> worked in Rotterdam. They'd bicycle to the station, park in the bike room,
> take the train to work and return by train at the end of the day to bicycle home.
>
On my few trips abroad by bicycle (Ok pedants: and ferry) I was taken aback (pleasantly!) at the status of cycling in the Netherlands (and Germany). The UK is 50 years behind, only now introducing "blue" lanes in a few parts of London.

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

J. J. Lodder speculated:

> Utrecht in particular is notorious for the bicycling crows.

I thought crows were more intelligent than that.

/dps

--
"What do you think of my cart, Miss Morland? A neat one, is not it?
Well hung: curricle-hung in fact. Come sit by me and we'll test the
springs."
(Speculative fiction by H.Lacedaemonian.)

On 12/05/22 19:19, Snidely wrote:
> J. J. Lodder speculated:
>
>> Utrecht in particular is notorious for the bicycling crows.
>
> I thought crows were more intelligent than that.

In this country it's magpies. In Spring it's not safe to either walk or
cycle along a cycle path if there happen to be trees overhead. Some
cyclists get by by painting big eyes on the back of their helmets.

The crows don't seem to attack at all.

I got a nasty head wound once from a bird attack, but that time it
wasn't a magpie. The magpies had outsourced the swooping job to Indian
mynas. I wasn't being cautious because I hadn't seen any magpies in the
area.

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com> wrote:

> J. J. Lodder speculated:
>
> > Utrecht in particular is notorious for the bicycling crows.
>
> I thought crows were more intelligent than that.

??? Yes, it is there, it is not an obvious typo,
and I have no idea how that curious edit error slipped in.

Perhaps there was a 'crowds' in there originally,

Jan

On 12/05/2022 02:50, bil...@shaw.ca wrote:
> Also, a lot of people commuted by bike *and* train. Local train stations
> had large halls with massive bike racks. Many people in my hometown
> worked in Rotterdam. They'd bicycle to the station, park in the bike room,
> take the train to work and return by train at the end of the day to bicycle home.

Still there. I was awed enough to take several photos of the bike
mountains (multi-level bike stands) outside Nijmegen train station last
year. What was even more impressive was that this was just the tip of
the iceberg. Underground, there were signs to more bike parks.

The urban myth was that a very large proportion of bikes on the roads
(70% ?) were stolen/resold. News however is that bike thefts in
Netherlands have gone down in the last few years.

On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 4:17:50 PM UTC-4, Anders D. Nygaard wrote:

> A traveller came in for a return ticket.
> I asked, "Where would you like to go?"
> "Here, of course!"

Seems obvious that a return ticket covers your return trip from
wherever you'd been.

We say "round trip ticket."

Kerr-Mudd, John <admin@127.0.0.1> wrote:

> On Wed, 11 May 2022 17:50:31 -0700 (PDT)
> "bil...@shaw.ca" <billvan@shaw.ca> wrote:
>
> > On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 4:59:41 PM UTC-7, Peter Moylan wrote:
> > > On 12/05/22 06:17, Anders D. Nygaard wrote:
> > > >
> > > > A traveller came in for a return ticket.
> > > > I asked, "Where would you like to go?"
> > > > "Here, of course!"
> > > When in France I learnt to ask for an "aller-retour", which made sense
> > > to me because literally it means "go-return".
> > >
> > > Then in Antwerp I had to learn "heen en terug", which always sounded to
> > > me like "there and back again".
> > >
> > I think just "retour" did the job in Dutch in the 1950s. We had family in
> > Rotterdam and we'd visit back and forth a few times a year. It was too
> > far for bicycling and not many people owned cars, so the train was the
> > handiest means of transport.
> >
> > Also, a lot of people commuted by bike *and* train. Local train stations
> > had large halls with massive bike racks. Many people in my hometown
> > worked in Rotterdam. They'd bicycle to the station, park in the bike
> > room, take the train to work and return by train at the end of the day
> > to bicycle home.
> >
> On my few trips abroad by bicycle (Ok pedants: and ferry) I was taken
> aback (pleasantly!) at the status of cycling in the Netherlands (and
> Germany). The UK is 50 years behind, only now introducing "blue" lanes in
> a few parts of London.

FYI, Modern Dutch ones are usually coloured brick red.
And speculating: I guess Britain is not just backward
in the way of cycling, but in social respects too.
The Netherlands are a more egalitarian society.
Those car drivers will also be on bicycles,
at least part of their time.
Commuting cyclists are not just 'the lower classes',

Jan

Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:

> On 12/05/22 19:19, Snidely wrote:
> > J. J. Lodder speculated:
> >
> >> Utrecht in particular is notorious for the bicycling crows.
> >
> > I thought crows were more intelligent than that.
>
> In this country it's magpies. In Spring it's not safe to either walk or
> cycle along a cycle path if there happen to be trees overhead. Some
> cyclists get by by painting big eyes on the back of their helmets.
>
> The crows don't seem to attack at all.
>
> I got a nasty head wound once from a bird attack, but that time it
> wasn't a magpie. The magpies had outsourced the swooping job to Indian
> mynas. I wasn't being cautious because I hadn't seen any magpies in the
> area.

A new terror in the Netherlands is the 'Oehoe', (E. Eagle Owl)
so the species Bubo bubo (L) returned from extinction.
Those really are birds to be afraid of,

Jan

occam <nobody@nowhere.nix> wrote:

> On 12/05/2022 02:50, bil...@shaw.ca wrote:
> > Also, a lot of people commuted by bike *and* train. Local train stations
> > had large halls with massive bike racks. Many people in my hometown
> > worked in Rotterdam. They'd bicycle to the station, park in the bike
> > room, take the train to work and return by train at the end of the day
> > to bicycle home.
>
> Still there. I was awed enough to take several photos of the bike
> mountains (multi-level bike stands) outside Nijmegen train station last
> year. What was even more impressive was that this was just the tip of
> the iceberg. Underground, there were signs to more bike parks.
>
> The urban myth was that a very large proportion of bikes on the roads
> (70% ?) were stolen/resold.

That was when junks were running wild all over he place.
The addiction problems have been brought under control.

> News however is that bike thefts in
> Netherlands have gone down in the last few years.

Mostly expensive new ones get stolen.
So ordinary Dutch cyclists have no problems. [1]

BTW, a new solution are 'blue front tyre' bicycles.
They are leased, for a monthly fee.
If you have a flat tyre, you just turn it in for repair.
If it gets stolen you report it stolen,
and wait for delivery of a replacement.

Popular among students, it seems,

Jan

[1] Apple has Airtags nowadays, for locating lost things.
The system is open to third parties.
The first third party to adopt it is 'Van Moof',
a Dutch manufacturer of expensive electric bicycles.
The Airtag is built in somewhere,
and not easily removed.

On Thursday, May 12, 2022 at 3:07:06 PM UTC-4, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> occam <nob...@nowhere.nix> wrote:
>
> > On 12/05/2022 02:50, bil...@shaw.ca wrote:
> > > Also, a lot of people commuted by bike *and* train. Local train stations
> > > had large halls with massive bike racks. Many people in my hometown
> > > worked in Rotterdam. They'd bicycle to the station, park in the bike
> > > room, take the train to work and return by train at the end of the day
> > > to bicycle home.
> >
> > Still there. I was awed enough to take several photos of the bike
> > mountains (multi-level bike stands) outside Nijmegen train station last
> > year. What was even more impressive was that this was just the tip of
> > the iceberg. Underground, there were signs to more bike parks.
> >
> > The urban myth was that a very large proportion of bikes on the roads
> > (70% ?) were stolen/resold.
> That was when junks were running wild all over he place.
> The addiction problems have been brought under control.
> > News however is that bike thefts in
> > Netherlands have gone down in the last few years.
> Mostly expensive new ones get stolen.
> So ordinary Dutch cyclists have no problems. [1]
>
> BTW, a new solution are 'blue front tyre' bicycles.
> They are leased, for a monthly fee.
> If you have a flat tyre, you just turn it in for repair.
> If it gets stolen you report it stolen,
> and wait for delivery of a replacement.
>
> Popular among students, it seems,

Imagine turning these into motorized bicycles
(Stel je voor dat je deze in gemotoriseerde fietsen verandert)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gv0XMMjpQlM

Den 12-05-2022 kl. 17:28 skrev Peter T. Daniels:
> On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 4:17:50 PM UTC-4, Anders D. Nygaard wrote:
>
>> A traveller came in for a return ticket.
>> I asked, "Where would you like to go?"
>> "Here, of course!"
>
> Seems obvious that a return ticket covers your return trip from
> wherever you'd been.
>
> We say "round trip ticket."

Thank you!

/Anders, Denmark, still learning after 50-odd years

Thursday, J. J. Lodder murmurred ...
> Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> J. J. Lodder speculated:
>>
>>> Utrecht in particular is notorious for the bicycling crows.
>>
>> I thought crows were more intelligent than that.
>
> ??? Yes, it is there, it is not an obvious typo,
> and I have no idea how that curious edit error slipped in.
>
> Perhaps there was a 'crowds' in there originally,
>
> Jan

At least I can thank you for a wonderful mental image.

/dps

--
"What do you think of my cart, Miss Morland? A neat one, is not it?
Well hung: curricle-hung in fact. Come sit by me and we'll test the
springs."
(Speculative fiction by H.Lacedaemonian.)

* (J. J. Lodder) <1pruaut.1l8big71q5kjg9N%nospam @de-ster.demon.nl> :
Wrote on Thu, 12 May 2022 21:07:00 +0200:
> FYI, Modern Dutch ones are usually coloured brick red.
> And speculating: I guess Britain is not just backward
> in the way of cycling, but in social respects too.
> The Netherlands are a more egalitarian society.
> Those car drivers will also be on bicycles,
> at least part of their time.

> Commuting cyclists are not just 'the lower classes',

How do you figure that?

If they bicycle, they are.

Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com> wrote:

> Thursday, J. J. Lodder murmurred ...
> > Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> J. J. Lodder speculated:
> >>
> >>> Utrecht in particular is notorious for the bicycling crows.
> >>
> >> I thought crows were more intelligent than that.
> >
> > ??? Yes, it is there, it is not an obvious typo,
> > and I have no idea how that curious edit error slipped in.
> >
> > Perhaps there was a 'crowds' in there originally,
> >
> > Jan
>
> At least I can thank you for a wonderful mental image.

Yes, crows are always good fun to watch, also when not cycling.
Here is a look-alike from Utrecht who at least owns a bicycle.
<https://stadsvogels.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/kauw9522.jpg>

Searching I found 'ninjakraaien' (ninja crows)
who terrorise a neighbourhood by zooming low through people's hair.
They come back every year to the same spot.
(or perhaps their kiddies learn the trick)

People have taken to using umbrellas for protection.

Jan

--
<https://www.ad.nl/alphen/oppassen-de-ninjakraaien-maken-alphen-weer-onveilig-ik-word-er-nerveus-van~a7e667324/?referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F>

On Fri, 13 May 2022 07:47:33 +0530
Madhu <enometh@meer.net> wrote:

> * (J. J. Lodder) <1pruaut.1l8big71q5kjg9N%nospam @de-ster.demon.nl> :
> Wrote on Thu, 12 May 2022 21:07:00 +0200:
> > FYI, Modern Dutch ones are usually coloured brick red.
> > And speculating: I guess Britain is not just backward
> > in the way of cycling, but in social respects too.
> > The Netherlands are a more egalitarian society.
> > Those car drivers will also be on bicycles,
> > at least part of their time.
>
> > Commuting cyclists are not just 'the lower classes',
>
> How do you figure that?
>
> If they bicycle, they are.

I wouldn't [dare] say that. Not if they can afford a Brompton or Pashley.

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

On 13/05/22 18:47, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Thursday, J. J. Lodder murmurred ...
>>> Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> J. J. Lodder speculated:
>>>>
>>>>> Utrecht in particular is notorious for the bicycling crows.
>>>>
>>>> I thought crows were more intelligent than that.
>>>
>>> ??? Yes, it is there, it is not an obvious typo, and I have no
>>> idea how that curious edit error slipped in.
>>>
>>> Perhaps there was a 'crowds' in there originally,
>>
>> At least I can thank you for a wonderful mental image.
>
> Yes, crows are always good fun to watch, also when not cycling. Here
> is a look-alike from Utrecht who at least owns a bicycle.
> <https://stadsvogels.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/kauw9522.jpg>
>
> Searching I found 'ninjakraaien' (ninja crows) who terrorise a
> neighbourhood by zooming low through people's hair. They come back
> every year to the same spot. (or perhaps their kiddies learn the
> trick)
>
> People have taken to using umbrellas for protection.

For your further education: people from South Australia are known as
crow-eaters.

Which reminds me that certain immigrant groups were reputed to call
kookaburras "ha-ha pigeons", on the grounds that their meat tasted
similar to that of pigeons. I can't confirm the similarity from my own
knowledge, because it is illegal to kill kookaburras.

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

Kerr-Mudd, John <admin@127.0.0.1> wrote:

> On Fri, 13 May 2022 07:47:33 +0530
> Madhu <enometh@meer.net> wrote:
>
> > * (J. J. Lodder) <1pruaut.1l8big71q5kjg9N%nospam @de-ster.demon.nl> :
> > Wrote on Thu, 12 May 2022 21:07:00 +0200:
> > > FYI, Modern Dutch ones are usually coloured brick red.
> > > And speculating: I guess Britain is not just backward
> > > in the way of cycling, but in social respects too.
> > > The Netherlands are a more egalitarian society.
> > > Those car drivers will also be on bicycles,
> > > at least part of their time.
> >
> > > Commuting cyclists are not just 'the lower classes',
> >
> > How do you figure that?
> >
> > If they bicycle, they are.
>
> I wouldn't [dare] say that. Not if they can afford a Brompton or Pashley.

Or even better, a Van Moof,
(coming soon to an expensive shop closer to you)

Jan

On Thursday, May 12, 2022 at 6:14:44 PM UTC-4, Anders D. Nygaard wrote:
> Den 12-05-2022 kl. 17:28 skrev Peter T. Daniels:
> > On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 4:17:50 PM UTC-4, Anders D. Nygaard wrote:

> >> A traveller came in for a return ticket.
> >> I asked, "Where would you like to go?"
> >> "Here, of course!"
> > Seems obvious that a return ticket covers your return trip from
> > wherever you'd been.
> > We say "round trip ticket."
>
> Thank you!

(You get that that's AmE vs. BrE, no?)

On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 10:52:58 AM UTC-4, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> On Thursday, May 12, 2022 at 6:14:44 PM UTC-4, Anders D. Nygaard wrote:
> > Den 12-05-2022 kl. 17:28 skrev Peter T. Daniels:
> > > On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 4:17:50 PM UTC-4, Anders D. Nygaard wrote:
>
> > >> A traveller came in for a return ticket.
> > >> I asked, "Where would you like to go?"
> > >> "Here, of course!"
> > > Seems obvious that a return ticket covers your return trip from
> > > wherever you'd been.
> > > We say "round trip ticket."
> >
> > Thank you!
> (You get that that's AmE vs. BrE, no?)

No. Its AmE vs CanE vs IrlE vs BrE. Get the terminology right, please.