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interests / alt.usage.english / Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program is racist

SubjectAuthor
* Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program is racistPeter T. Daniels
`* Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program is racistTony Cooper
 +* Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program is racistspains...@gmail.com
 |`* Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program is racistTony Cooper
 | +* Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program isRichard Heathfield
 | |+* Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program is racistTony Cooper
 | ||+- Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program isRichard Heathfield
 | ||`* Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program isoccam
 | || +* Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program is racistAthel Cornish-Bowden
 | || |`- Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program isCDB
 | || +* Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program isRichard Heathfield
 | || |+* Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program isoccam
 | || ||`* Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program isRichard Heathfield
 | || || +* Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program is racistPeter T. Daniels
 | || || |`* Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program isoccam
 | || || | `* Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program is racistTony Cooper
 | || || |  +* Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program is racistPaul Wolff
 | || || |  |+* Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program isRichard Heathfield
 | || || |  ||`- Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program is racistPeter T. Daniels
 | || || |  |+* Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program is racistTony Cooper
 | || || |  ||+* Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program isSilvano
 | || || |  |||+- Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program isRichard Heathfield
 | || || |  |||+* Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program isCDB
 | || || |  ||||+* Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program isRichard Heathfield
 | || || |  |||||+* Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program isCDB
 | || || |  ||||||`- Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program isRichard Heathfield
 | || || |  |||||`- Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program is racistPeter T. Daniels
 | || || |  ||||+- Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program isSilvano
 | || || |  ||||`* Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program is racistTony Cooper
 | || || |  |||| `- Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program is racistKen Blake
 | || || |  |||`- Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program is racistTony Cooper
 | || || |  ||`* Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program is racistPaul Wolff
 | || || |  || +* Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program is racistTony Cooper
 | || || |  || |+* Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program isRichard Heathfield
 | || || |  || ||+* Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program is racistTony Cooper
 | || || |  || |||`- Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program is racistPeter T. Daniels
 | || || |  || ||`- Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program isCDB
 | || || |  || |`- Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program is racistPeter T. Daniels
 | || || |  || `- Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program is racistPeter T. Daniels
 | || || |  |`- Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program is racistPeter T. Daniels
 | || || |  `* Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program isRichard Heathfield
 | || || |   +* Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program isoccam
 | || || |   |+* Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program isRichard Heathfield
 | || || |   ||+* Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program isoccam
 | || || |   |||+* Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program isPeter Moylan
 | || || |   ||||`- Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program isRichard Heathfield
 | || || |   |||`- Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program isRichard Heathfield
 | || || |   ||`- Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program is racistPeter T. Daniels
 | || || |   |`- Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program is racistPeter T. Daniels
 | || || |   `- Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program is racistPeter T. Daniels
 | || || `- Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program is racistbruce bowser
 | || |`- Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program is racistPeter T. Daniels
 | || `* Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program isPeter Moylan
 | ||  `* Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program isCDB
 | ||   `* Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program isCDB
 | ||    `- Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program is racistQuinn C
 | |+- Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program is racistAthel Cornish-Bowden
 | |`- Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program is racistPeter T. Daniels
 | `* Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program is racistAthel Cornish-Bowden
 |  `* Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program isPeter Moylan
 |   +- Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program is racistAthel Cornish-Bowden
 |   `* Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program isKerr-Mudd, John
 |    `- Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program isPeter Moylan
 `* Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program is racistPeter T. Daniels
  `- Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program is racistTony Cooper

Pages:123
Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program is racist

<5509de99-b5a9-4c1b-9a68-849105d0e9a9n@googlegroups.com>

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https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=130546&group=alt.usage.english#130546

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Date: Thu, 12 May 2022 12:34:21 -0700 (PDT)
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Subject: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program is racist
From: gramma...@verizon.net (Peter T. Daniels)
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 by: Peter T. Daniels - Thu, 12 May 2022 19:34 UTC

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/30/us/tucker-carlson-gop-republican-party.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/30/us/tucker-carlson-fox-news.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/30/business/media/tucker-carlson-fox-news-takeaways.html

I can't read the articles, because I have (somehow) "reached my limit," and
Cooper will mock me for having learned of them from Confessore's "Fresh
Air" interview with Dave Davies

https://whyy.org/episodes/nicholas-confessore-on-tucker-carlson-american-nationalist/

but when Heathfield asked the question, Cooper failed to provide the links
to the articles he had presumably assimilated two weeks ago.

Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program is racist

<tgpq7h1i6h6ci4k3hbu1d05vafcuj5h2fi@4ax.com>

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From: tonycoop...@gmail.com (Tony Cooper)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program is racist
Date: Thu, 12 May 2022 16:37:30 -0400
Lines: 49
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 by: Tony Cooper - Thu, 12 May 2022 20:37 UTC

On Thu, 12 May 2022 12:34:21 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
<grammatim@verizon.net> wrote:

>https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/30/us/tucker-carlson-gop-republican-party.html
>
>https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/30/us/tucker-carlson-fox-news.html
>
>https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/30/business/media/tucker-carlson-fox-news-takeaways.html
>
>I can't read the articles, because I have (somehow) "reached my limit," and
>Cooper will mock me for having learned of them from Confessore's "Fresh
>Air" interview with Dave Davies
>
>https://whyy.org/episodes/nicholas-confessore-on-tucker-carlson-american-nationalist/
>
>but when Heathfield asked the question, Cooper failed to provide the links
>to the articles he had presumably assimilated two weeks ago.

I realize that I have neglected my obligation to provide you with
access to the _New York Times_ articles. I'm sure if I would refer to
my copy of my Terms of Access to alt.usage.english that I would find
that my duties to you are clearly delineated.

I suggest, that to make up for my inadequacies in this, that you
subscribe to the NYT online. It will set you back $1.50 per week
https://www.nytimes.com/subscription?campaignId=.

While you might consider this to be an onerous drain on your budget,
I'm sure there are cuts you can make to accomodate this extra expense.
For example, utilizing your free Senior bus pass instead of using your
vehicle for errands. Saving just one gallon of gasoline a month would
pay for almost three weeks of availability to the NYT.

You could extend that to a free month of the NYT by scouring the
neighborhood trash bins for redeemable bottles.

If you decide to go for a trifecta of news, and add subscriptions to
the NYT, WaPo, and New Yorker as I do, I can only suggest you open a
GoFundMe begging site.

--

Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida

I read and post to this group as a form of entertainment.

Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program is racist

<5fbdbfa4-b5de-439e-80db-8c2885ad4f2fn@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program is racist
From: spainsha...@gmail.com (spains...@gmail.com)
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 by: spains...@gmail.com - Thu, 12 May 2022 20:52 UTC

On Thursday, May 12, 2022 at 9:37:36 PM UTC+1, Tony Cooper wrote:
> On Thu, 12 May 2022 12:34:21 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
> <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> >https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/30/us/tucker-carlson-gop-republican-party.html
> >
> >https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/30/us/tucker-carlson-fox-news.html
> >
> >https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/30/business/media/tucker-carlson-fox-news-takeaways.html
> >
> >I can't read the articles, because I have (somehow) "reached my limit," and
> >Cooper will mock me for having learned of them from Confessore's "Fresh
> >Air" interview with Dave Davies
> >
> >https://whyy.org/episodes/nicholas-confessore-on-tucker-carlson-american-nationalist/
> >
> >but when Heathfield asked the question, Cooper failed to provide the links
> >to the articles he had presumably assimilated two weeks ago.
> I realize that I have neglected my obligation to provide you with
> access to the _New York Times_ articles. I'm sure if I would refer to
> my copy of my Terms of Access to alt.usage.english that I would find
> that my duties to you are clearly delineated.
>
> I suggest, that to make up for my inadequacies in this, that you
> subscribe to the NYT online. It will set you back $1.50 per week
> https://www.nytimes.com/subscription?campaignId=.
>
> While you might consider this to be an onerous drain on your budget,
> I'm sure there are cuts you can make to accomodate this extra expense.
> For example, utilizing your free Senior bus pass instead of using your
> vehicle for errands. Saving just one gallon of gasoline a month would
> pay for almost three weeks of availability to the NYT.
>
> You could extend that to a free month of the NYT by scouring the
> neighborhood trash bins for redeemable bottles.
>
> If you decide to go for a trifecta of news, and add subscriptions to
> the NYT, WaPo, and New Yorker as I do, I can only suggest you open a
> GoFundMe begging site.

Much more serious than that is athel's failure to keep his Wiki page
up to date: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athel_Cornish-Bowden>

Tim Martin (don't ask) asserts that Oxford University Students
(not those thickos from Cambridge), are responsible for all of our ills.

He suggest that they are manipulated to think the same way. Thank
God for Angela Rayner - who is proper totty.

Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program is racist

<l5tq7h5dpjhlkbo9fcopcv30l803l9abih@4ax.com>

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From: tonycoop...@gmail.com (Tony Cooper)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program is racist
Date: Thu, 12 May 2022 17:03:17 -0400
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 by: Tony Cooper - Thu, 12 May 2022 21:03 UTC

On Thu, 12 May 2022 13:52:46 -0700 (PDT), "spains...@gmail.com"
<spainsharden@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Thursday, May 12, 2022 at 9:37:36 PM UTC+1, Tony Cooper wrote:
>> On Thu, 12 May 2022 12:34:21 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
>> <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>> >https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/30/us/tucker-carlson-gop-republican-party.html
>> >
>> >https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/30/us/tucker-carlson-fox-news.html
>> >
>> >https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/30/business/media/tucker-carlson-fox-news-takeaways.html
>> >
>> >I can't read the articles, because I have (somehow) "reached my limit," and
>> >Cooper will mock me for having learned of them from Confessore's "Fresh
>> >Air" interview with Dave Davies
>> >
>> >https://whyy.org/episodes/nicholas-confessore-on-tucker-carlson-american-nationalist/
>> >
>> >but when Heathfield asked the question, Cooper failed to provide the links
>> >to the articles he had presumably assimilated two weeks ago.
>> I realize that I have neglected my obligation to provide you with
>> access to the _New York Times_ articles. I'm sure if I would refer to
>> my copy of my Terms of Access to alt.usage.english that I would find
>> that my duties to you are clearly delineated.
>>
>> I suggest, that to make up for my inadequacies in this, that you
>> subscribe to the NYT online. It will set you back $1.50 per week
>> https://www.nytimes.com/subscription?campaignId=.
>>
>> While you might consider this to be an onerous drain on your budget,
>> I'm sure there are cuts you can make to accomodate this extra expense.
>> For example, utilizing your free Senior bus pass instead of using your
>> vehicle for errands. Saving just one gallon of gasoline a month would
>> pay for almost three weeks of availability to the NYT.
>>
>> You could extend that to a free month of the NYT by scouring the
>> neighborhood trash bins for redeemable bottles.
>>
>> If you decide to go for a trifecta of news, and add subscriptions to
>> the NYT, WaPo, and New Yorker as I do, I can only suggest you open a
>> GoFundMe begging site.
>
>Much more serious than that is athel's failure to keep his Wiki page
>up to date: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athel_Cornish-Bowden>
>

I agree completely. That photograph was clearly taken in his younger
days. It should be updated.

--

Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida

I read and post to this group as a form of entertainment.

Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program is racist

<t5jtp9$up0$1@dont-email.me>

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From: rjh...@cpax.org.uk (Richard Heathfield)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program is
racist
Date: Thu, 12 May 2022 22:21:44 +0100
Organization: Fix this later
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 by: Richard Heathfield - Thu, 12 May 2022 21:21 UTC

On 12/05/2022 10:03 pm, Tony Cooper wrote:
> On Thu, 12 May 2022 13:52:46 -0700 (PDT), "spains...@gmail.com"
> <spainsharden@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Thursday, May 12, 2022 at 9:37:36 PM UTC+1, Tony Cooper wrote:
>>> On Thu, 12 May 2022 12:34:21 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
>>> <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/30/us/tucker-carlson-gop-republican-party.html
>>>>
>>>> https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/30/us/tucker-carlson-fox-news.html
>>>>
>>>> https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/30/business/media/tucker-carlson-fox-news-takeaways.html
>>>>
>>>> I can't read the articles, because I have (somehow) "reached my limit," and
>>>> Cooper will mock me for having learned of them from Confessore's "Fresh
>>>> Air" interview with Dave Davies
>>>>
>>>> https://whyy.org/episodes/nicholas-confessore-on-tucker-carlson-american-nationalist/
>>>>
>>>> but when Heathfield asked the question, Cooper failed to provide the links
>>>> to the articles he had presumably assimilated two weeks ago.
>>> I realize that I have neglected my obligation to provide you with
>>> access to the _New York Times_ articles. I'm sure if I would refer to
>>> my copy of my Terms of Access to alt.usage.english that I would find
>>> that my duties to you are clearly delineated.
>>>
>>> I suggest, that to make up for my inadequacies in this, that you
>>> subscribe to the NYT online. It will set you back $1.50 per week
>>> https://www.nytimes.com/subscription?campaignId=.
>>>
>>> While you might consider this to be an onerous drain on your budget,
>>> I'm sure there are cuts you can make to accomodate this extra expense.
>>> For example, utilizing your free Senior bus pass instead of using your
>>> vehicle for errands. Saving just one gallon of gasoline a month would
>>> pay for almost three weeks of availability to the NYT.
>>>
>>> You could extend that to a free month of the NYT by scouring the
>>> neighborhood trash bins for redeemable bottles.
>>>
>>> If you decide to go for a trifecta of news, and add subscriptions to
>>> the NYT, WaPo, and New Yorker as I do, I can only suggest you open a
>>> GoFundMe begging site.
>>
>> Much more serious than that is athel's failure to keep his Wiki page
>> up to date: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athel_Cornish-Bowden>
>>
>
> I agree completely.

You're not supposed to update a Wikipedia article if you are its
subject, because of NPOV.

> That photograph was clearly taken in his younger
> days. It should be updated.

Then by all means do so if you have a more recent photograph that
can be legally used. But Athel cannot in all conscience do it for
you.

ObSubjectLine: I note that the best evidence presented so far for
the claim that Tucker Carlson is a racist (about which claim I
have no opinion other than that it is unproved) is a few
newspaper articles tucked behind paywalls; no openly accessible
and verifiable primary sources from Carlson himself whatsoever
have been produced. We are expected to believe he's a racist
because some people have said he is (as if people never lie about
stuff like that). Well, maybe he is, and maybe he ain't, but I
mislaid my gullibility several decades ago.

--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program is racist

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From: tonycoop...@gmail.com (Tony Cooper)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program is racist
Date: Thu, 12 May 2022 18:14:33 -0400
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 by: Tony Cooper - Thu, 12 May 2022 22:14 UTC

On Thu, 12 May 2022 22:21:44 +0100, Richard Heathfield
<rjh@cpax.org.uk> wrote:

>On 12/05/2022 10:03 pm, Tony Cooper wrote:
>> On Thu, 12 May 2022 13:52:46 -0700 (PDT), "spains...@gmail.com"
>> <spainsharden@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Thursday, May 12, 2022 at 9:37:36 PM UTC+1, Tony Cooper wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 12 May 2022 12:34:21 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
>>>> <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/30/us/tucker-carlson-gop-republican-party.html
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/30/us/tucker-carlson-fox-news.html
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/30/business/media/tucker-carlson-fox-news-takeaways.html
>>>>>
>>>>> I can't read the articles, because I have (somehow) "reached my limit," and
>>>>> Cooper will mock me for having learned of them from Confessore's "Fresh
>>>>> Air" interview with Dave Davies
>>>>>
>>>>> https://whyy.org/episodes/nicholas-confessore-on-tucker-carlson-american-nationalist/
>>>>>
>>>>> but when Heathfield asked the question, Cooper failed to provide the links
>>>>> to the articles he had presumably assimilated two weeks ago.
>>>> I realize that I have neglected my obligation to provide you with
>>>> access to the _New York Times_ articles. I'm sure if I would refer to
>>>> my copy of my Terms of Access to alt.usage.english that I would find
>>>> that my duties to you are clearly delineated.
>>>>
>>>> I suggest, that to make up for my inadequacies in this, that you
>>>> subscribe to the NYT online. It will set you back $1.50 per week
>>>> https://www.nytimes.com/subscription?campaignId=.
>>>>
>>>> While you might consider this to be an onerous drain on your budget,
>>>> I'm sure there are cuts you can make to accomodate this extra expense.
>>>> For example, utilizing your free Senior bus pass instead of using your
>>>> vehicle for errands. Saving just one gallon of gasoline a month would
>>>> pay for almost three weeks of availability to the NYT.
>>>>
>>>> You could extend that to a free month of the NYT by scouring the
>>>> neighborhood trash bins for redeemable bottles.
>>>>
>>>> If you decide to go for a trifecta of news, and add subscriptions to
>>>> the NYT, WaPo, and New Yorker as I do, I can only suggest you open a
>>>> GoFundMe begging site.
>>>
>>> Much more serious than that is athel's failure to keep his Wiki page
>>> up to date: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athel_Cornish-Bowden>
>>>
>>
>> I agree completely.
>
>You're not supposed to update a Wikipedia article if you are its
>subject, because of NPOV.
>
>> That photograph was clearly taken in his younger
>> days. It should be updated.
>
>Then by all means do so if you have a more recent photograph that
>can be legally used. But Athel cannot in all conscience do it for
>you.
>
>ObSubjectLine: I note that the best evidence presented so far for
>the claim that Tucker Carlson is a racist (about which claim I
>have no opinion other than that it is unproved) is a few
>newspaper articles tucked behind paywalls; no openly accessible
>and verifiable primary sources from Carlson himself whatsoever
>have been produced. We are expected to believe he's a racist
>because some people have said he is (as if people never lie about
>stuff like that). Well, maybe he is, and maybe he ain't, but I
>mislaid my gullibility several decades ago.

I don't know how to *prove* someone is or isn't a racist.

I'm not at all sure if Tucker Carlson is a racist. Oh, I know that he
frequently says racist things and frequently promotes racist theories.
I don't watch his program, but I have seen clips.

But Carlson's TV persona is a cleverly contructed image that is
designed to bring in a certain type of viewers. He has admitted that
he is quite willing to lie to increase interest in his show. I
wouldn't put it past him to burn a cross and wear a white hood on air
to bring in viewers.

Whether or not he actually believes in anything he says is unknown.

Any doubts that he spews racism on air can be dispelled by watching
his program. The "Why?", though, unanswerable.

--

Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida

I read and post to this group as a form of entertainment.

Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program is racist

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From: rjh...@cpax.org.uk (Richard Heathfield)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program is
racist
Date: Fri, 13 May 2022 00:44:23 +0100
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 by: Richard Heathfield - Thu, 12 May 2022 23:44 UTC

On 12/05/2022 11:14 pm, Tony Cooper wrote:
> On Thu, 12 May 2022 22:21:44 +0100, Richard Heathfield
> <rjh@cpax.org.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 12/05/2022 10:03 pm, Tony Cooper wrote:
>>> On Thu, 12 May 2022 13:52:46 -0700 (PDT), "spains...@gmail.com"
>>> <spainsharden@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Thursday, May 12, 2022 at 9:37:36 PM UTC+1, Tony Cooper wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, 12 May 2022 12:34:21 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
>>>>> <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/30/us/tucker-carlson-gop-republican-party.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/30/us/tucker-carlson-fox-news.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/30/business/media/tucker-carlson-fox-news-takeaways.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I can't read the articles, because I have (somehow) "reached my limit," and
>>>>>> Cooper will mock me for having learned of them from Confessore's "Fresh
>>>>>> Air" interview with Dave Davies
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://whyy.org/episodes/nicholas-confessore-on-tucker-carlson-american-nationalist/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> but when Heathfield asked the question, Cooper failed to provide the links
>>>>>> to the articles he had presumably assimilated two weeks ago.
>>>>> I realize that I have neglected my obligation to provide you with
>>>>> access to the _New York Times_ articles. I'm sure if I would refer to
>>>>> my copy of my Terms of Access to alt.usage.english that I would find
>>>>> that my duties to you are clearly delineated.
>>>>>
>>>>> I suggest, that to make up for my inadequacies in this, that you
>>>>> subscribe to the NYT online. It will set you back $1.50 per week
>>>>> https://www.nytimes.com/subscription?campaignId=.
>>>>>
>>>>> While you might consider this to be an onerous drain on your budget,
>>>>> I'm sure there are cuts you can make to accomodate this extra expense.
>>>>> For example, utilizing your free Senior bus pass instead of using your
>>>>> vehicle for errands. Saving just one gallon of gasoline a month would
>>>>> pay for almost three weeks of availability to the NYT.
>>>>>
>>>>> You could extend that to a free month of the NYT by scouring the
>>>>> neighborhood trash bins for redeemable bottles.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you decide to go for a trifecta of news, and add subscriptions to
>>>>> the NYT, WaPo, and New Yorker as I do, I can only suggest you open a
>>>>> GoFundMe begging site.
>>>>
>>>> Much more serious than that is athel's failure to keep his Wiki page
>>>> up to date: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athel_Cornish-Bowden>
>>>>
>>>
>>> I agree completely.
>>
>> You're not supposed to update a Wikipedia article if you are its
>> subject, because of NPOV.
>>
>>> That photograph was clearly taken in his younger
>>> days. It should be updated.
>>
>> Then by all means do so if you have a more recent photograph that
>> can be legally used. But Athel cannot in all conscience do it for
>> you.
>>
>> ObSubjectLine: I note that the best evidence presented so far for
>> the claim that Tucker Carlson is a racist (about which claim I
>> have no opinion other than that it is unproved) is a few
>> newspaper articles tucked behind paywalls; no openly accessible
>> and verifiable primary sources from Carlson himself whatsoever
>> have been produced. We are expected to believe he's a racist
>> because some people have said he is (as if people never lie about
>> stuff like that). Well, maybe he is, and maybe he ain't, but I
>> mislaid my gullibility several decades ago.
>
> I don't know how to *prove* someone is or isn't a racist.

Well, of course you can't. What you *can* do is point to specific
evidence that either strengthens or weakens the claim.

> I'm not at all sure if Tucker Carlson is a racist.

Neither am I.

> Oh, I know that he
> frequently says racist things and frequently promotes racist theories.

That's more than I know, because no evidence has been posted to
support that claim.

> I don't watch his program, but I have seen clips.

Likewise.

> But Carlson's TV persona is a cleverly contructed image that is
> designed to bring in a certain type of viewers. He has admitted that
> he is quite willing to lie to increase interest in his show. I
> wouldn't put it past him to burn a cross and wear a white hood on air
> to bring in viewers.
>
> Whether or not he actually believes in anything he says is unknown.
>
> Any doubts that he spews racism on air can be dispelled by watching
> his program. The "Why?", though, unanswerable.

All of which is a great big handwave, and the "Whether" remains
unanswered.

--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program is racist

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From: acorn...@imm.cnrs.fr (Athel Cornish-Bowden)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program is racist
Date: Fri, 13 May 2022 08:42:43 +0200
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 by: Athel Cornish-Bowden - Fri, 13 May 2022 06:42 UTC

On 2022-05-12 21:03:17 +0000, Tony Cooper said:

> On Thu, 12 May 2022 13:52:46 -0700 (PDT), "spains...@gmail.com"
> <spainsharden@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> [ … ]
>>
>> Much more serious than that is athel's failure to keep his Wiki page
>> up to date: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athel_Cornish-Bowden>
>>
>
> I agree completely. That photograph was clearly taken in his younger
> days. It should be updated.

Yes. The one at https://owlcroft.com/aue/ is more representative.

--
Athel -- French and British, living mainly in England until 1987.

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From: acorn...@imm.cnrs.fr (Athel Cornish-Bowden)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program is racist
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 by: Athel Cornish-Bowden - Fri, 13 May 2022 06:45 UTC

On 2022-05-12 21:21:44 +0000, Richard Heathfield said:

> On 12/05/2022 10:03 pm, Tony Cooper wrote:

[ … ]

>> On Thu, 12 May 2022 13:52:46 -0700 (PDT), "spains...@gmail.com"
>> <spainsharden@gmail.com> wrote:

>>> Much more serious than that is athel's failure to keep his Wiki page
>>> up to date: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athel_Cornish-Bowden>
>>>
>>
>> I agree completely.
>
> You're not supposed to update a Wikipedia article if you are its
> subject, because of NPOV.

Right. There are other things on that page that I would update if I
didn't follow the rules.
>
>> That photograph was clearly taken in his younger
>> days. It should be updated.
>
> Then by all means do so if you have a more recent photograph that can
> be legally used. But Athel cannot in all conscience do it for you.
>
> ObSubjectLine: I note that the best evidence presented so far for the
> claim that Tucker Carlson is a racist (about which claim I have no
> opinion other than that it is unproved) is a few newspaper articles
> tucked behind paywalls; no openly accessible and verifiable primary
> sources from Carlson himself whatsoever have been produced. We are
> expected to believe he's a racist because some people have said he is
> (as if people never lie about stuff like that). Well, maybe he is, and
> maybe he ain't, but I mislaid my gullibility several decades ago.

--
Athel -- French and British, living mainly in England until 1987.

Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program is racist

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From: pet...@pmoylan.org.invalid (Peter Moylan)
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Subject: Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program is
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 by: Peter Moylan - Fri, 13 May 2022 07:08 UTC

On 13/05/22 16:42, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> On 2022-05-12 21:03:17 +0000, Tony Cooper said:
>> On Thu, 12 May 2022 13:52:46 -0700 (PDT), "spains...@gmail.com"
>> <spainsharden@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> [ … ]
>>>
>>> Much more serious than that is athel's failure to keep his Wiki
>>> page up to date:
>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athel_Cornish-Bowden>
>>
>> I agree completely. That photograph was clearly taken in his
>> younger days. It should be updated.
>
> Yes. The one at https://owlcroft.com/aue/ is more representative.

I assume you don't mean the small photo, which is even more seriously
out of date.

A small photo like that used as a link on a web site has a name, but
that name has been entirely driven out of my mind, and googling suggests
that everyone else has also forgotten it.

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

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From: acorn...@imm.cnrs.fr (Athel Cornish-Bowden)
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 by: Athel Cornish-Bowden - Fri, 13 May 2022 07:52 UTC

On 2022-05-13 07:08:04 +0000, Peter Moylan said:

> On 13/05/22 16:42, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>> On 2022-05-12 21:03:17 +0000, Tony Cooper said:
>>> On Thu, 12 May 2022 13:52:46 -0700 (PDT), "spains...@gmail.com"
>>> <spainsharden@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> [ … ]
>>>>
>>>> Much more serious than that is athel's failure to keep his Wiki
>>>> page up to date:
>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athel_Cornish-Bowden>
>>>
>>> I agree completely. That photograph was clearly taken in his
>>> younger days. It should be updated.

It was taken in 2014: not last week, but as up-to-date as most photos
you can find at Wikipedia.
>>
>> Yes. The one at https://owlcroft.com/aue/ is more representative.
>
> I assume you don't mean the small photo, which is even more seriously
> out of date.
>
> A small photo like that used as a link on a web site has a name, but
> that name has been entirely driven out of my mind, and googling suggests
> that everyone else has also forgotten it.

--
Athel -- French and British, living mainly in England until 1987.

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From: nob...@nowhere.nix (occam)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program is
racist
Date: Fri, 13 May 2022 10:07:18 +0200
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 by: occam - Fri, 13 May 2022 08:07 UTC

On 13/05/2022 00:14, Tony Cooper wrote:
> On Thu, 12 May 2022 22:21:44 +0100, Richard Heathfield
> <rjh@cpax.org.uk> wrote:

>>
>> ObSubjectLine: I note that the best evidence presented so far for
>> the claim that Tucker Carlson is a racist (about which claim I
>> have no opinion other than that it is unproved) is a few
>> newspaper articles tucked behind paywalls; no openly accessible
>> and verifiable primary sources from Carlson himself whatsoever
>> have been produced. We are expected to believe he's a racist
>> because some people have said he is (as if people never lie about
>> stuff like that). Well, maybe he is, and maybe he ain't, but I
>> mislaid my gullibility several decades ago.
>
> I don't know how to *prove* someone is or isn't a racist.
>

Of course you can. If that someone - whoever he may be, whatever shade
of orange he may be - says:

"When Mexico sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're
not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending people that
have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us.
They're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists. And
some, I assume, are good people."

You can assume the speaker is not only illiterate, he is also a racist.

Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program is racist

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From: acorn...@imm.cnrs.fr (Athel Cornish-Bowden)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program is racist
Date: Fri, 13 May 2022 10:14:17 +0200
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 by: Athel Cornish-Bowden - Fri, 13 May 2022 08:14 UTC

On 2022-05-13 08:07:18 +0000, occam said:

> On 13/05/2022 00:14, Tony Cooper wrote:
>> On Thu, 12 May 2022 22:21:44 +0100, Richard Heathfield
>> <rjh@cpax.org.uk> wrote:
>
>>>
>>> ObSubjectLine: I note that the best evidence presented so far for
>>> the claim that Tucker Carlson is a racist (about which claim I
>>> have no opinion other than that it is unproved) is a few
>>> newspaper articles tucked behind paywalls; no openly accessible
>>> and verifiable primary sources from Carlson himself whatsoever
>>> have been produced. We are expected to believe he's a racist
>>> because some people have said he is (as if people never lie about
>>> stuff like that). Well, maybe he is, and maybe he ain't, but I
>>> mislaid my gullibility several decades ago.
>>
>> I don't know how to *prove* someone is or isn't a racist.
>>
>
> Of course you can. If that someone - whoever he may be, whatever shade
> of orange he may be - says:
>
> "When Mexico sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're
> not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending people that
> have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us.
> They're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists. And
> some, I assume, are good people."
>
> You can assume the speaker is not only illiterate, he is also a racist.

Yes, but he is reported to have an IQ of 156. If there were ever a
report to confirm that IQ is meaningless this would be it.

--
Athel -- French and British, living mainly in England until 1987.

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From: adm...@127.0.0.1 (Kerr-Mudd, John)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program is
racist
Date: Fri, 13 May 2022 09:57:07 +0100
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 by: Kerr-Mudd, John - Fri, 13 May 2022 08:57 UTC

On Fri, 13 May 2022 17:08:04 +1000
Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:

> On 13/05/22 16:42, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> > On 2022-05-12 21:03:17 +0000, Tony Cooper said:
> >> On Thu, 12 May 2022 13:52:46 -0700 (PDT), "spains...@gmail.com"
> >> <spainsharden@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> [ … ]
> >>>
> >>> Much more serious than that is athel's failure to keep his Wiki
> >>> page up to date:
> >>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athel_Cornish-Bowden>
> >>
> >> I agree completely. That photograph was clearly taken in his
> >> younger days. It should be updated.
> >
> > Yes. The one at https://owlcroft.com/aue/ is more representative.
>
> I assume you don't mean the small photo, which is even more seriously
> out of date.
>
> A small photo like that used as a link on a web site has a name, but
> that name has been entirely driven out of my mind, and googling suggests
> that everyone else has also forgotten it.
Thumbnail?

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

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From: rjh...@cpax.org.uk (Richard Heathfield)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program is
racist
Date: Fri, 13 May 2022 10:09:36 +0100
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 by: Richard Heathfield - Fri, 13 May 2022 09:09 UTC

On 13/05/2022 9:07 am, occam wrote:
> On 13/05/2022 00:14, Tony Cooper wrote:
>> On Thu, 12 May 2022 22:21:44 +0100, Richard Heathfield
>> <rjh@cpax.org.uk> wrote:
>
>>>
>>> ObSubjectLine: I note that the best evidence presented so far for
>>> the claim that Tucker Carlson is a racist (about which claim I
>>> have no opinion other than that it is unproved) is a few
>>> newspaper articles tucked behind paywalls; no openly accessible
>>> and verifiable primary sources from Carlson himself whatsoever
>>> have been produced. We are expected to believe he's a racist
>>> because some people have said he is (as if people never lie about
>>> stuff like that). Well, maybe he is, and maybe he ain't, but I
>>> mislaid my gullibility several decades ago.
>>
>> I don't know how to *prove* someone is or isn't a racist.
>>
>
> Of course you can. If that someone - whoever he may be, whatever shade
> of orange he may be - says:
>
> "When Mexico sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're
> not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending people that
> have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us.
> They're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists. And
> some, I assume, are good people."
>
> You can assume the speaker is not only illiterate, he is also a racist.

No doubt you can source the quote, or it can be dismissed a la
Hitchens's Razor.

Assuming for the sake of argument that the quoted statement is
genuine, which specific bit of it do you think is false?

--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program is racist

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From: pet...@pmoylan.org.invalid (Peter Moylan)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program is
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Date: Fri, 13 May 2022 20:09:04 +1000
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 by: Peter Moylan - Fri, 13 May 2022 10:09 UTC

On 13/05/22 18:07, occam wrote:
> On 13/05/2022 00:14, Tony Cooper wrote:

>> I don't know how to *prove* someone is or isn't a racist.
>
> Of course you can. If that someone - whoever he may be, whatever shade
> of orange he may be - says:
>
> "When Mexico sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're
> not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending people that
> have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us.
> They're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists. And
> some, I assume, are good people."
>
> You can assume the speaker is not only illiterate, he is also a racist.

Apart from the last sentence, he was just repeating what Trump said.

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

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From: pet...@pmoylan.org.invalid (Peter Moylan)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program is
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 by: Peter Moylan - Fri, 13 May 2022 10:13 UTC

On 13/05/22 18:57, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
> On Fri, 13 May 2022 17:08:04 +1000 Peter Moylan
> <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 13/05/22 16:42, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>>> On 2022-05-12 21:03:17 +0000, Tony Cooper said:
>>>> On Thu, 12 May 2022 13:52:46 -0700 (PDT),
>>>> "spains...@gmail.com" <spainsharden@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> [ … ]
>>>>>
>>>>> Much more serious than that is athel's failure to keep his
>>>>> Wiki page up to date:
>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athel_Cornish-Bowden>
>>>>
>>>> I agree completely. That photograph was clearly taken in his
>>>> younger days. It should be updated.
>>>
>>> Yes. The one at https://owlcroft.com/aue/ is more
>>> representative.
>>
>> I assume you don't mean the small photo, which is even more
>> seriously out of date.
>>
>> A small photo like that used as a link on a web site has a name,
>> but that name has been entirely driven out of my mind, and googling
>> suggests that everyone else has also forgotten it.
>
> Thumbnail?

Yes, that's what I meant. About half an hour ago I was watching TV, and
someone used the word.

It's annoying to lose a word like that. But I'm still getting about 95%
completion on the daily cryptic crossword.

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

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 by: CDB - Fri, 13 May 2022 12:26 UTC

On 5/13/2022 4:14 AM, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> occam said:
>> Tony Cooper wrote:
>>> Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> wrote:

>>>> ObSubjectLine: I note that the best evidence presented so far
>>>> for the claim that Tucker Carlson is a racist (about which
>>>> claim I have no opinion other than that it is unproved) is a
>>>> few newspaper articles tucked behind paywalls; no openly
>>>> accessible and verifiable primary sources from Carlson himself
>>>> whatsoever have been produced. We are expected to believe he's
>>>> a racist because some people have said he is (as if people
>>>> never lie about stuff like that). Well, maybe he is, and maybe
>>>> he ain't, but I mislaid my gullibility several decades ago.

>>> I don't know how to *prove* someone is or isn't a racist.

>> Of course you can. If that someone - whoever he may be, whatever
>> shade of orange he may be - says:

>> "When Mexico sends its people, they're not sending their best.
>> They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending
>> people that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those
>> problems with us. They're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime.
>> They're rapists. And some, I assume, are good people."

>> You can assume the speaker is not only illiterate, he is also a
>> racist.

> Yes, but he is reported to have an IQ of 156. If there were ever a
> report to confirm that IQ is meaningless this would be it.

He was marked on a curve, because heel-spurs.

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Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program is
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 by: CDB - Fri, 13 May 2022 12:30 UTC

On 5/13/2022 6:09 AM, Peter Moylan wrote:
> occam wrote:
>> Tony Cooper wrote:

>>> I don't know how to *prove* someone is or isn't a racist.

>> Of course you can. If that someone - whoever he may be, whatever
>> shade of orange he may be - says:

>> "When Mexico sends its people, they're not sending their best.
>> They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending
>> people that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those
>> problems with us. They're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime.
>> They're rapists. And some, I assume, are good people."

>> You can assume the speaker is not only illiterate, he is also a
>> racist.

> Apart from the last sentence, he was just repeating what Trump said.

Tony was quoting Dumpy, not Tucky - including the last sentence.

Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program is racist

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From: nob...@nowhere.nix (occam)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program is
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 by: occam - Fri, 13 May 2022 13:34 UTC

On 13/05/2022 11:09, Richard Heathfield wrote:
> On 13/05/2022 9:07 am, occam wrote:
>> On 13/05/2022 00:14, Tony Cooper wrote:
>>> On Thu, 12 May 2022 22:21:44 +0100, Richard Heathfield
>>> <rjh@cpax.org.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>>> ObSubjectLine: I note that the best evidence presented so far for
>>>> the claim that Tucker Carlson is a racist (about which claim I
>>>> have no opinion other than that it is unproved) is a few
>>>> newspaper articles tucked behind paywalls; no openly accessible
>>>> and verifiable primary sources from Carlson himself whatsoever
>>>> have been produced. We are expected to believe he's a racist
>>>> because some people have said he is (as if people never lie about
>>>> stuff like that). Well, maybe he is, and maybe he ain't, but I
>>>> mislaid my gullibility several decades ago.
>>>
>>> I don't know how to *prove* someone is or isn't a racist.
>>>
>>
>> Of course you can. If that someone - whoever he may be, whatever shade
>> of orange he may be - says:
>>
>>   "When Mexico sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're
>> not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending people that
>> have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us.
>> They're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists. And
>> some, I assume, are good people."
>>
>>   You can assume the speaker is not only illiterate, he is also a racist.
>
> No doubt you can source the quote, or it can be dismissed a la
> Hitchens's Razor.

Source:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2015/07/08/donald-trumps-false-comments-connecting-mexican-immigrants-and-crime/

(BTW, I have moved the discussion from Carlson to Trump. The issue is
"how to prove [someone] is a racist.)
>
> Assuming for the sake of argument that the quoted statement is genuine,
> which specific bit of it do you think is false?
>

The false bits beginning with: "They're sending..." (a Mexican
conspiracy) "They're bringing...", "They're rapists" (what, all of them?)

Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program is racist

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From: bellemar...@gmail.com (CDB)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program is
racist
Date: Fri, 13 May 2022 09:55:12 -0400
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 by: CDB - Fri, 13 May 2022 13:55 UTC

On 5/13/2022 8:30 AM, CDB wrote:
> Peter Moylan wrote:
>> occam wrote:
>>> Tony Cooper wrote:

>>>> I don't know how to *prove* someone is or isn't a racist.

>>> Of course you can. If that someone - whoever he may be, whatever
>>> shade of orange he may be - says:

>>> "When Mexico sends its people, they're not sending their best.
>>> They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're
>>> sending people that have lots of problems, and they're bringing
>>> those problems with us. They're bringing drugs. They're bringing
>>> crime. They're rapists. And some, I assume, are good people."

>>> You can assume the speaker is not only illiterate, he is also a
>>> racist.

>> Apart from the last sentence, he was just repeating what Trump
>> said.

> Tony was quoting Dumpy, not Tucky - including the last sentence.

Sorry, "Ocky was quoting ...".

Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program is racist

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From: rjh...@cpax.org.uk (Richard Heathfield)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program is
racist
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 by: Richard Heathfield - Fri, 13 May 2022 14:59 UTC

On 13/05/2022 2:34 pm, occam wrote:
> On 13/05/2022 11:09, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>> On 13/05/2022 9:07 am, occam wrote:
>>> On 13/05/2022 00:14, Tony Cooper wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 12 May 2022 22:21:44 +0100, Richard Heathfield
>>>> <rjh@cpax.org.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ObSubjectLine: I note that the best evidence presented
>>>>> so far for the claim that Tucker Carlson is a racist
>>>>> (about which claim I have no opinion other than that
>>>>> it is unproved) is a few newspaper articles tucked
>>>>> behind paywalls; no openly accessible and verifiable
>>>>> primary sources from Carlson himself whatsoever have
>>>>> been produced. We are expected to believe he's a
>>>>> racist because some people have said he is (as if
>>>>> people never lie about stuff like that). Well, maybe
>>>>> he is, and maybe he ain't, but I mislaid my
>>>>> gullibility several decades ago.
>>>>
>>>> I don't know how to *prove* someone is or isn't a
>>>> racist.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Of course you can. If that someone - whoever he may be,
>>> whatever shade of orange he may be - says:
>>>
>>> "When Mexico sends its people, they're not sending their
>>> best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you.
>>> They're sending people that have lots of problems, and
>>> they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing
>>> drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists. And some,
>>> I assume, are good people."
>>>
>>> You can assume the speaker is not only illiterate, he is
>>> also a racist.
>>
>> No doubt you can source the quote, or it can be dismissed a
>> la Hitchens's Razor.
>
> Source:
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2015/07/08/donald-trumps-false-comments-connecting-mexican-immigrants-and-crime/

If you consider the Washington Post (a wholly owned subsidiary of
Jeff Bezos) to be a reliable source, I don't think we're going to
have a meaningful discussion, BUT I have found other reports of
the same speech that contain basically the same wording, so I'll
let it slide. But newspaper reports are *not* primary sources.
(Far too many people believe what they read in the newspapers.)

> (BTW, I have moved the discussion from Carlson to Trump. The
> issue is "how to prove [someone] is a racist.)

Fine by me. I think you'll struggle to prove it, though, because
"prove" is really too high a bar for anyone but a mathematician.

>> Assuming for the sake of argument that the quoted statement
>> is genuine, which specific bit of it do you think is
>> false?
>>
>
> The false bits beginning with: "They're sending..."

So the false bits are the bits you think are false. Why? Because
it's you thinking it? Okay... but if so you'll perhaps forgive me
for finding your "reasoning" unpersuasive.

> (a Mexican conspiracy) "They're bringing...", "They're
> rapists" (what, all of them?)
Can it be shown that all illegal immigrants from Mexico to the
US committed rape in the US? Highly doubtful. So the "they're
rapists" quote is clearly not 100% accurate, but the question
then becomes whether it is /partly/ accurate. That is a question
to which I don't have the answer. Do you? Can you guarantee that
illegal Mexican immigrants to the USA have never committed and
will never commit rape while in the USA illegally. Because that's
what it means to condemn the statement as 100% false.

--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

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Subject: Re: Heathfield wanted evidence that Tucker Carlson's program is racist
From: gramma...@verizon.net (Peter T. Daniels)
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 by: Peter T. Daniels - Fri, 13 May 2022 15:02 UTC

On Thursday, May 12, 2022 at 4:37:36 PM UTC-4, Tony Cooper wrote:
> On Thu, 12 May 2022 12:34:21 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
> <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:

> >https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/30/us/tucker-carlson-gop-republican-party.html
> >
> >https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/30/us/tucker-carlson-fox-news.html
> >
> >https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/30/business/media/tucker-carlson-fox-news-takeaways.html
> >
> >I can't read the articles, because I have (somehow) "reached my limit," and
> >Cooper will mock me for having learned of them from Confessore's "Fresh
> >Air" interview with Dave Davies
> >
> >https://whyy.org/episodes/nicholas-confessore-on-tucker-carlson-american-nationalist/
> >
> >but when Heathfield asked the question, Cooper failed to provide the links
> >to the articles he had presumably assimilated two weeks ago.
>
> I realize that I have neglected my obligation to provide you

ME??????

It is Heathfield that requested the information.

Nice to see you're as illiterate as ever.

> with
> access to the _New York Times_
> --
> Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida
> I read and post to this group as a form of entertainment.

But mostly misinformation.

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From: gramma...@verizon.net (Peter T. Daniels)
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 by: Peter T. Daniels - Fri, 13 May 2022 15:07 UTC

On Thursday, May 12, 2022 at 5:21:49 PM UTC-4, Richard Heathfield wrote:
> On 12/05/2022 10:03 pm, Tony Cooper wrote:
> > On Thu, 12 May 2022 13:52:46 -0700 (PDT), "spains...@gmail.com"
> > <spains...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Thursday, May 12, 2022 at 9:37:36 PM UTC+1, Tony Cooper wrote:
> >>> On Thu, 12 May 2022 12:34:21 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
> >>> <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:

> >>>> https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/30/us/tucker-carlson-gop-republican-party.html
> >>>>
> >>>> https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/30/us/tucker-carlson-fox-news.html
> >>>>
> >>>> https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/30/business/media/tucker-carlson-fox-news-takeaways.html
> >>>>
> >>>> I can't read the articles, because I have (somehow) "reached my limit," and
> >>>> Cooper will mock me for having learned of them from Confessore's "Fresh
> >>>> Air" interview with Dave Davies
> >>>>
> >>>> https://whyy.org/episodes/nicholas-confessore-on-tucker-carlson-american-nationalist/
> >>>>
> >>>> but when Heathfield asked the question, Cooper failed to provide the links
> >>>> to the articles he had presumably assimilated two weeks ago.

> ObSubjectLine: I note that the best evidence presented so far for
> the claim that Tucker Carlson is a racist (about which claim I
> have no opinion other than that it is unproved) is a few
> newspaper articles tucked behind paywalls; no openly accessible
> and verifiable primary sources from Carlson himself whatsoever
> have been produced. We are expected to believe he's a racist
> because some people have said he is (as if people never lie about
> stuff like that). Well, maybe he is, and maybe he ain't, but I
> mislaid my gullibility several decades ago.

Someone might point out to Heathfield that the 40-minute (or so)
interview with the author of the articles is not behind a paywall.

A transcript may even be available at the web page by now, which
would take (most people) less long to read.

The lengthy series of articles is based on analysis of 1100 hours
of Carlson broadcasts.

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From: gramma...@verizon.net (Peter T. Daniels)
Injection-Date: Fri, 13 May 2022 15:12:42 +0000
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 by: Peter T. Daniels - Fri, 13 May 2022 15:12 UTC

On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 5:09:41 AM UTC-4, Richard Heathfield wrote:
> On 13/05/2022 9:07 am, occam wrote:
> > On 13/05/2022 00:14, Tony Cooper wrote:
> >> On Thu, 12 May 2022 22:21:44 +0100, Richard Heathfield
> >> <r...@cpax.org.uk> wrote:

> >>> ObSubjectLine: I note that the best evidence presented so far for
> >>> the claim that Tucker Carlson is a racist (about which claim I
> >>> have no opinion other than that it is unproved) is a few
> >>> newspaper articles tucked behind paywalls; no openly accessible
> >>> and verifiable primary sources from Carlson himself whatsoever
> >>> have been produced. We are expected to believe he's a racist
> >>> because some people have said he is (as if people never lie about
> >>> stuff like that). Well, maybe he is, and maybe he ain't, but I
> >>> mislaid my gullibility several decades ago.
> >> I don't know how to *prove* someone is or isn't a racist.
> > Of course you can. If that someone - whoever he may be, whatever shade
> > of orange he may be - says:
> > "When Mexico sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're
> > not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending people that
> > have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us.
> > They're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists. And
> > some, I assume, are good people."
> > You can assume the speaker is not only illiterate, he is also a racist.
>
> No doubt you can source the quote, or it can be dismissed a la
> Hitchens's Razor.

Oh, fer chrissake. It's from T****'s announcement of his candidacy
after descending the magic escalator in T**** Tower. How ignorant
can Heathfield be? Ostriches and head-in-sand come to mind.

> Assuming for the sake of argument that the quoted statement is
> genuine, which specific bit of it do you think is false?

Now Heathfield somehow equates "racist" with "false" ???????

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