If Alice Bob-Carol married David Erica-Frank, what would
be the hyphenated surname of their daughter Greta?

--
^Ï^ Slava Ukraini

My pet rock Gordon just is.

Sn!pe hat am 11.05.2022 um 15:40 geschrieben:
> If Alice Bob-Carol married David Erica-Frank, what would
> be the hyphenated surname of their daughter Greta?

This question has nothing to do with AUE and I've not yet seen Sn!pe
here, therefore my question: am I answering a troll?

Anyway, it depends on the laws of the country or countries Greta is a
citizen of. It is also quite possible that Greta has a surname according
to the laws of the country X and a different surname according to the
laws of the country Y.

On 2022-05-11 07:40, Sn!pe wrote:
> If Alice Bob-Carol married David Erica-Frank, what would
> be the hyphenated surname of their daughter Greta?
>

In-Wonderland

--
на хуй путін
І слава Україні

In article <1prsojl.1gexbk3clgl7zN%snipeco.2@gmail.com>,
Sn!pe <snipeco.1@gmail.com> wrote:
>If Alice Bob-Carol married David Erica-Frank, what would
>be the hyphenated surname of their daughter Greta?

Whatever got written on the birth certificate.

-GAWollman

--
Garrett A. Wollman | "Act to avoid constraining the future; if you can,
wollman@bimajority.org| act to remove constraint from the future. This is
Opinions not shared by| a thing you can do, are able to do, to do together."
my employers. | - Graydon Saunders, _A Succession of Bad Days_ (2015)

Silvano <Silvano@noncisonopernessuno.it> wrote:

> Sn!pe hat am 11.05.2022 um 15:40 geschrieben:
> > If Alice Bob-Carol married David Erica-Frank, what would
> > be the hyphenated surname of their daughter Greta?
>
>
> This question has nothing to do with AUE and I've not yet seen
> Sn!pe here, therefore my question: am I answering a troll?
>

I'm a lurker, not a troll; this is a genuine question.

>
> Anyway, it depends on the laws of the country or countries Greta is a
> citizen of. It is also quite possible that Greta has a surname according
> to the laws of the country X and a different surname according to the
> laws of the country Y.
>

It isn't a matter of law but customary usage and so is relevant to aue.

There is a modern fad among some people here in the UK to use both
their parents' surnames joined with a hyphen, hence my question.

--
^Ï^ Slava Ukraini

My pet rock Gordon just is.

On Wed, 11 May 2022 17:33:53 +0200
Silvano <Silvano@noncisonopernessuno.it> wrote:

> Sn!pe hat am 11.05.2022 um 15:40 geschrieben:
> > If Alice Bob-Carol married David Erica-Frank, what would
> > be the hyphenated surname of their daughter Greta?
>
>
> This question has nothing to do with AUE and I've not yet seen Sn!pe
> here, therefore my question: am I answering a troll?
>
Sn!pe's been trolling about on usenet for decades; he mixes with some unsavoury sorts, but I've found him to be a congenial landlord at his usenet local. Just don't mention the B word.

> Anyway, it depends on the laws of the country or countries Greta is a
> citizen of. It is also quite possible that Greta has a surname according
> to the laws of the country X and a different surname according to the
> laws of the country Y.
>

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

Kerr-Mudd, John <admin@127.0.0.1> wrote:

> On Wed, 11 May 2022 17:33:53 +0200
> Silvano <Silvano@noncisonopernessuno.it> wrote:
>
> > Sn!pe hat am 11.05.2022 um 15:40 geschrieben:
> > > If Alice Bob-Carol married David Erica-Frank, what would
> > > be the hyphenated surname of their daughter Greta?
> >
> >
> > This question has nothing to do with AUE and I've not yet seen Sn!pe
> > here, therefore my question: am I answering a troll?
> >
> Sn!pe's been trolling about on usenet for decades; he mixes with some
> unsavoury sorts, but I've found him to be a congenial landlord at his
> usenet local. Just don't mention the B word.

[...]

TYVM, pal.

--
^Ï^ Slava Ukraini

My pet rock Gordon just raised one eyebrow.

On 5/11/2022 1:27 PM, Sn!pe wrote:
> Silvano <Silvano@noncisonopernessuno.it> wrote:
>> Sn!pe hat geschrieben:

>>> If Alice Bob-Carol married David Erica-Frank, what would be the
>>> hyphenated surname of their daughter Greta?

>> This question has nothing to do with AUE and I've not yet seen
>> Sn!pe here, therefore my question: am I answering a troll?

> I'm a lurker, not a troll; this is a genuine question.

>> Anyway, it depends on the laws of the country or countries Greta
>> is a citizen of. It is also quite possible that Greta has a
>> surname according to the laws of the country X and a different
>> surname according to the laws of the country Y.

> It isn't a matter of law but customary usage and so is relevant to
> aue.

> There is a modern fad among some people here in the UK to use both
> their parents' surnames joined with a hyphen, hence my question.

It is also a newish custom in Quebec. IME the grandchildren usually get
the first element of each parent's name, duly hyphenated. Greta
Bob-Erica, maybe.

The "B-word"?

On 5/11/2022 2:53 PM, Sn!pe wrote:
> Kerr-Mudd, John <admin@127.0.0.1> wrote:
>> Silvano <Silvano@noncisonopernessuno.it> wrote:

>>> Sn!pe hat am 11.05.2022 um 15:40 geschrieben:
>>>> If Alice Bob-Carol married David Erica-Frank, what would be
>>>> the hyphenated surname of their daughter Greta?

>>> This question has nothing to do with AUE and I've not yet seen
>>> Sn!pe here, therefore my question: am I answering a troll?

>> Sn!pe's been trolling about on usenet for decades; he mixes with
>> some unsavoury sorts, but I've found him to be a congenial
>> landlord at his usenet local. Just don't mention the B word.

> [...]
>
> TYVM, pal.

> -- ^Ï^ Slava Ukraini

> My pet rock Gordon just raised one eyebrow.

I'm glad to learn he's in good form. i was worried when we stopped
hearing from him.

CDB <bellemarecd@gmail.com> wrote:

[...]

> > My pet rock Gordon just raised one eyebrow.
>
> I'm glad to learn he's in good form. i was worried when we stopped
> hearing from him.

≈:o)

--
^Ï^ Slava Ukraini

My pet rock Gordon just is.

CDB <bellemarecd@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 5/11/2022 1:27 PM, Sn!pe wrote:
> > Silvano <Silvano@noncisonopernessuno.it> wrote:
> >> Sn!pe hat geschrieben:
>
> >>> If Alice Bob-Carol married David Erica-Frank, what would be the
> >>> hyphenated surname of their daughter Greta?
>
> >> This question has nothing to do with AUE and I've not yet seen
> >> Sn!pe here, therefore my question: am I answering a troll?
>
> > I'm a lurker, not a troll; this is a genuine question.
>
> >> Anyway, it depends on the laws of the country or countries Greta
> >> is a citizen of. It is also quite possible that Greta has a
> >> surname according to the laws of the country X and a different
> >> surname according to the laws of the country Y.
>
> > It isn't a matter of law but customary usage and so is relevant to
> > aue.
>
> > There is a modern fad among some people here in the UK to use both
> > their parents' surnames joined with a hyphen, hence my question.
>
> It is also a newish custom in Quebec. IME the grandchildren usually get
> the first element of each parent's name, duly hyphenated. Greta
> Bob-Erica, maybe.
>

Thank you, CDB.

This answer has just brought another question to mind: is there
any convention as to whether the husband's name goes first or
the wife's?

> The "B-word"?

I think he means 'Brexit'; a matter that thankfully is now behind us.

--
^Ï^ Slava Ukraini

My pet rock Gordon just is.

Sn!pe hat am 11.05.2022 um 19:27 geschrieben:
> Silvano <Silvano@noncisonopernessuno.it> wrote:
>
>> Sn!pe hat am 11.05.2022 um 15:40 geschrieben:
>>> If Alice Bob-Carol married David Erica-Frank, what would
>>> be the hyphenated surname of their daughter Greta?

>> Anyway, it depends on the laws of the country or countries Greta is a
>> citizen of. It is also quite possible that Greta has a surname according
>> to the laws of the country X and a different surname according to the
>> laws of the country Y.
>>
>
> It isn't a matter of law but customary usage and so is relevant to aue.

Customary usage is one thing, and then you'd better tell us WHICH
customary usage you're talking about. UK, US, Australia, Canada, South
Africa, Nigeria, Ireland, New Zealand or?
As a legal translator, laws are much more important to me than customary
usage.
YMMV.

> There is a modern fad among some people here in the UK to use both
> their parents' surnames joined with a hyphen, hence my question.

Fads are not the same as legal requirements. As you may or may not know,
most countries have more stringent regulations on surnames than the UK.

On Wed, 11 May 2022 19:53:43 +0100
snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) wrote:

> Kerr-Mudd, John <admin@127.0.0.1> wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 11 May 2022 17:33:53 +0200
> > Silvano <Silvano@noncisonopernessuno.it> wrote:
> >
> > > Sn!pe hat am 11.05.2022 um 15:40 geschrieben:
> > > > If Alice Bob-Carol married David Erica-Frank, what would
> > > > be the hyphenated surname of their daughter Greta?
> > >
> > >
> > > This question has nothing to do with AUE and I've not yet seen Sn!pe
> > > here, therefore my question: am I answering a troll?
> > >
> > Sn!pe's been trolling about on usenet for decades; he mixes with some
> > unsavoury sorts, but I've found him to be a congenial landlord at his
> > usenet local. Just don't mention the B word.
>
> [...]
>
> TYVM, pal.
>
No worries. Mine's a pint of Old CockleWarmer.

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

Silvano <Silvano@noncisonopernessuno.it> wrote:

> Sn!pe hat am 11.05.2022 um 19:27 geschrieben:
> > Silvano <Silvano@noncisonopernessuno.it> wrote:
> >
> >> Sn!pe hat am 11.05.2022 um 15:40 geschrieben:
> >>> If Alice Bob-Carol married David Erica-Frank, what would
> >>> be the hyphenated surname of their daughter Greta?
>
> >> Anyway, it depends on the laws of the country or countries Greta is a
> >> citizen of. It is also quite possible that Greta has a surname according
> >> to the laws of the country X and a different surname according to the
> >> laws of the country Y.
> >>
> >
> > It isn't a matter of law but customary usage and so is relevant to aue.
> >
>
> Customary usage is one thing, and then you'd better tell us WHICH
> customary usage you're talking about. UK, US, Australia, Canada, South
> Africa, Nigeria, Ireland, New Zealand or?
> As a legal translator, laws are much more important to me than customary
> usage.
> YMMV.
>
> >
> > There is a modern fad among some people here in the UK to use both
> > their parents' surnames joined with a hyphen, hence my question.
> >
>
> Fads are not the same as legal requirements. As you may or may not know,
> most countries have more stringent regulations on surnames than the UK.
>

Quite so, but I am asking about customary usage, not the law. It would
be interesting to hear about other nations' practice, of course.

--
^Ï^ Slava Ukraini

My pet rock Gordon just is.

Kerr-Mudd, John <admin@127.0.0.1> wrote:

> On Wed, 11 May 2022 19:53:43 +0100
> snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) wrote:
>
> > Kerr-Mudd, John <admin@127.0.0.1> wrote:
> >
> > > On Wed, 11 May 2022 17:33:53 +0200
> > > Silvano <Silvano@noncisonopernessuno.it> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Sn!pe hat am 11.05.2022 um 15:40 geschrieben:
> > > > > If Alice Bob-Carol married David Erica-Frank, what would
> > > > > be the hyphenated surname of their daughter Greta?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > This question has nothing to do with AUE and I've not yet seen Sn!pe
> > > > here, therefore my question: am I answering a troll?
> > > >
> > > Sn!pe's been trolling about on usenet for decades; he mixes with some
> > > unsavoury sorts, but I've found him to be a congenial landlord at his
> > > usenet local. Just don't mention the B word.
> >
> > [...]
> >
> > TYVM, pal.
> >
> No worries. Mine's a pint of Old CockleWarmer.

That's a pity, the new barrel's on stillage until tomorrow.
How about an Old Peculier instead?

--
^Ï^ Slava Ukraini

My pet rock Gordon just is.

* Sn!pe:

> Silvano <Silvano@noncisonopernessuno.it> wrote:
>
>> Sn!pe hat am 11.05.2022 um 15:40 geschrieben:
>>> If Alice Bob-Carol married David Erica-Frank, what would
>>> be the hyphenated surname of their daughter Greta?
>>
>> This question has nothing to do with AUE and I've not yet seen
>> Sn!pe here, therefore my question: am I answering a troll?
>>
>
> I'm a lurker, not a troll; this is a genuine question.
>
>>
>> Anyway, it depends on the laws of the country or countries Greta is a
>> citizen of. It is also quite possible that Greta has a surname according
>> to the laws of the country X and a different surname according to the
>> laws of the country Y.
>>
>
> It isn't a matter of law but customary usage and so is relevant to aue.

Customary usage, in my mostly German experience, is to use just one last
name, regardless of how many parts there are. Typically the first one,
but the bearer of the name decides.

Some double-barrelled people insist on the full thing, maybe more often
when both parts are short, but not exclusively - Germany had a federal
minister at one point who was always called Leutheusser-Schnarrenberger.
I especially remember because I remember Japanese newscasters having to
say it.

> There is a modern fad among some people here in the UK to use both
> their parents' surnames joined with a hyphen, hence my question.

I have no experience with people whose name has more than two parts.
German law doesn't allow it, at least not recently. German law also
doesn't allow picking one name from each parent if they each have two,
which causes problems for people with a Spanish cultural background.

--
.... she didn't exactly approve of the military. She didn't
exactly disapprove, either; she just made it plain that she
thought there were better things for intelligent human beings
to do with their lives. -- L. McMaster Bujold, Memory

Quinn C hat am 11.05.2022 um 23:08 geschrieben:
> I have no experience with people whose name has more than two parts.
> German law doesn't allow it, at least not recently.

But it did in the Nineties. I know, because I had to translate a
sentence written by the judge Müller-Meyer-Berger (not her real names).

> German law also
> doesn't allow picking one name from each parent if they each have two,
> which causes problems for people with a Spanish cultural background.

Rather funny story on this subject.
In the nineties, an Italian woman married a Bolivian man in Germany,
where both of them lived. They chose German law, a very sensible idea if
anything goes wrong, because divorce was much, much more difficult and
expensive under both Italian and Bolivian law at that time. But as a
result (all names changed for privacy reasons), Mrs Maria Rossi became
Mrs Maria Gonzales on German documents only, while Mr Juan Gonzales
Lopetegui became Mr Juan Gonzales on German documents only.

Actually, German law did allow picking the mother's and the father's
surname for a couple of years.
Italian law had no problem with our first child's surname X-Y (X =
mother's surname, Y = father's surname).
But both Italian and German laws had huge problems with our second child
twenty months later. The Germans accepted X-Y after four years and a
formal complaint, because the amended German law refused
double-barrelled surnames, but also insisted that siblings should have
the same surname, i.e. the same surname as her X-Y brother.
I beg your pardon? You say that X-Y's sister can't have a
double-barrelled surname like his, but at the same time she should have
the same surname as he has because she's her sister???

As a result, my daughter with the German surname X-Y still has Y as her
sole surname on Italian documents, because Italian law had changed too
in those twenty months. So her surname is X-Y in Germany, unless she
drops it when she marries Mr Z and adopts his surname, but it is Y on
Italian documents and will still be Y in Italy whichever surname she
adopts after her marriage.

On Wed, 11 May 2022, at 16:50:11, Garrett Wollman posted:
>In article <1prsojl.1gexbk3clgl7zN%snipeco.2@gmail.com>,
>Sn!pe <snipeco.1@gmail.com> wrote:
>>If Alice Bob-Carol married David Erica-Frank, what would
>>be the hyphenated surname of their daughter Greta?
>
>Whatever got written on the birth certificate.
>
If that were the custom. In my case, three columns of the certificate
were relevant:

1. Name, if any.
(The next column was headed 'Sex.')
2. Name and Surname of Father.
3. Name and Maiden Surname of Mother.

I can see that this isn't consistent as to what 'Name' means. I wasn't
given any surname; my name was just one single word.
--
Paul

On 11/05/22 23:40, Sn!pe wrote:

> If Alice Bob-Carol married David Erica-Frank, what would
> be the hyphenated surname of their daughter Greta?

Bob and Carol and Ted and Alice.

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:

> On 11/05/22 23:40, Sn!pe wrote:
>
> > If Alice Bob-Carol married David Erica-Frank, what would
> > be the hyphenated surname of their daughter Greta?
> >
>
> Bob and Carol and Ted and Alice.
>

Hah! Honestly, that never crossed my mind. It just goes
to show the power of the subconscious mind, eh? ≈:o)
--
^Ï^ Slava Ukraini

My pet rock Gordon just is.

On Wed, 11 May 2022 22:03:00 +0100
snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) wrote:

> Kerr-Mudd, John <admin@127.0.0.1> wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 11 May 2022 19:53:43 +0100
> > snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) wrote:
> >
> > > Kerr-Mudd, John <admin@127.0.0.1> wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Wed, 11 May 2022 17:33:53 +0200
> > > > Silvano <Silvano@noncisonopernessuno.it> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Sn!pe hat am 11.05.2022 um 15:40 geschrieben:
> > > > > > If Alice Bob-Carol married David Erica-Frank, what would
> > > > > > be the hyphenated surname of their daughter Greta?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > This question has nothing to do with AUE and I've not yet seen Sn!pe
> > > > > here, therefore my question: am I answering a troll?
> > > > >
> > > > Sn!pe's been trolling about on usenet for decades; he mixes with some
> > > > unsavoury sorts, but I've found him to be a congenial landlord at his
> > > > usenet local. Just don't mention the B word.
> > >
> > > [...]
> > >
> > > TYVM, pal.
> > >
> > No worries. Mine's a pint of Old CockleWarmer.
>
> That's a pity, the new barrel's on stillage until tomorrow.
> How about an Old Peculier instead?
>
Ah; that'll be doing for going on with! (but perhaps after lunch).

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

On 5/11/2022 3:47 PM, Sn!pe wrote:
> CDB <bellemarecd@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Sn!pe wrote:
>>> Silvano <Silvano@noncisonopernessuno.it> wrote:
>>>> Sn!pe hat geschrieben:

>>>>> If Alice Bob-Carol married David Erica-Frank, what would be
>>>>> the hyphenated surname of their daughter Greta?

>>>> This question has nothing to do with AUE and I've not yet seen
>>>> Sn!pe here, therefore my question: am I answering a troll?

>>> I'm a lurker, not a troll; this is a genuine question.

>>>> Anyway, it depends on the laws of the country or countries
>>>> Greta is a citizen of. It is also quite possible that Greta has
>>>> a surname according to the laws of the country X and a
>>>> different surname according to the laws of the country Y.

>>> It isn't a matter of law but customary usage and so is relevant
>>> to aue.

>>> There is a modern fad among some people here in the UK to use
>>> both their parents' surnames joined with a hyphen, hence my
>>> question.

>> It is also a newish custom in Quebec. IME the grandchildren
>> usually get the first element of each parent's name, duly
>> hyphenated. Greta Bob-Erica, maybe.

> Thank you, CDB.

> This answer has just brought another question to mind: is there any
> convention as to whether the husband's name goes first or the
> wife's?

Don't know, but I suspect father's-first, since the old custom was
father's-only. If I were doing it I think I would try for euphony.

When Measha Gosman, the Canadian operatic soprano, married a man named
Markus Brügger, they adopted the common name of Brueggergosman.

>> The "B-word"?

> I think he means 'Brexit'; a matter that thankfully is now behind
> us.

Let us hope so. I think there may still be some fallout.

On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 5:08:27 PM UTC-4, Quinn C wrote:
> * Sn!pe:

> > It isn't a matter of law but customary usage and so is relevant to aue.
>
> Customary usage, in my mostly German experience, is to use just one last
> name, regardless of how many parts there are. Typically the first one,
> but the bearer of the name decides.
>
> Some double-barrelled people insist on the full thing, maybe more often
> when both parts are short, but not exclusively - Germany had a federal
> minister at one point who was always called Leutheusser-Schnarrenberger.
> I especially remember because I remember Japanese newscasters having to
> say it.

There's a prominent Iranist named Desmond Durkin-Meisterernst (and
you have to use the whole thing). Meisterernst seems to have been his
late wife.

On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 6:08:14 PM UTC-4, Silvano wrote:

> result (all names changed for privacy reasons), Mrs Maria Rossi became
> Mrs Maria Gonzales on German documents only, while Mr Juan Gonzales
> Lopetegui became Mr Juan Gonzales on German documents only.

You gave him a Basque parent!

On Thursday, May 12, 2022 at 7:08:12 AM UTC-4, CDB wrote:
> On 5/11/2022 3:47 PM, Sn!pe wrote:
> > CDB <belle...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Sn!pe wrote:
> >>> Silvano <Sil...@noncisonopernessuno.it> wrote:
> >>>> Sn!pe hat geschrieben:
>
> >>>>> If Alice Bob-Carol married David Erica-Frank, what would be
> >>>>> the hyphenated surname of their daughter Greta?
>
> >>>> This question has nothing to do with AUE and I've not yet seen
> >>>> Sn!pe here, therefore my question: am I answering a troll?
>
> >>> I'm a lurker, not a troll; this is a genuine question.
>
> >>>> Anyway, it depends on the laws of the country or countries
> >>>> Greta is a citizen of. It is also quite possible that Greta has
> >>>> a surname according to the laws of the country X and a
> >>>> different surname according to the laws of the country Y.
>
> >>> It isn't a matter of law but customary usage and so is relevant
> >>> to aue.
>
> >>> There is a modern fad among some people here in the UK to use
> >>> both their parents' surnames joined with a hyphen, hence my
> >>> question.
>
> >> It is also a newish custom in Quebec. IME the grandchildren
> >> usually get the first element of each parent's name, duly
> >> hyphenated. Greta Bob-Erica, maybe.
>
> > Thank you, CDB.
>
> > This answer has just brought another question to mind: is there any
> > convention as to whether the husband's name goes first or the
> > wife's?
> Don't know, but I suspect father's-first, since the old custom was
> father's-only. If I were doing it I think I would try for euphony.
>
> When Measha Gosman, the Canadian operatic soprano, married a man named
> Markus Brügger, they adopted the common name of Brueggergosman.
> >> The "B-word"?
>
> > I think he means 'Brexit'; a matter that thankfully is now behind
> > us.
> Let us hope so. I think there may still be some fallout.

Hey, did ya know that the former defense minister of Germany's name is Karl-Theodor zu Guttenberg?