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interests / alt.usage.english / Re: [pobedobesie] The pobodobesie this year marked a new high

SubjectAuthor
* [pobedobesie] The pobodobesie this year marked a new highKen Blake
`* Re: [pobedobesie] The pobodobesie this year marked a new highbil...@shaw.ca
 +* Re: [pobedobesie] The pobodobesie this year marked a new highQuinn C
 |`- Re: [pobedobesie] The pobodobesie this year marked a new highKen Blake
 `* Re: [pobedobesie] The pobodobesie this year marked a new highKen Blake
  +* Re: [pobedobesie] The pobodobesie this year marked a new highPeter T. Daniels
  |`* Re: [pobedobesie] The pobodobesie this year marked a new highKerr-Mudd, John
  | +* Re: [pobedobesie] The pobodobesie this year marked a new highTony Cooper
  | |`- Re: [pobedobesie] The pobodobesie this year marked a new highKen Blake
  | +- Re: [pobedobesie] The pobodobesie this year marked a new highKen Blake
  | `* Re: [pobedobesie] The pobodobesie this year marked a new highPeter T. Daniels
  |  `* Re: [pobedobesie] The pobodobesie this year marked a new highKerr-Mudd, John
  |   `* Re: [pobedobesie] The pobodobesie this year marked a new highSam Plusnet
  |    `* Re: [pobedobesie] The pobodobesie this year marked a new highPeter T. Daniels
  |     `- Re: [pobedobesie] The pobodobesie this year marked a new highcris
  `* Re: [pobedobesie] The pobodobesie this year marked a new highCDB
   `- Re: [pobedobesie] The pobodobesie this year marked a new highKen Blake

1
[pobedobesie] The pobodobesie this year marked a new high

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From: Ken...@invalidinvalid.com (Ken Blake)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: [pobedobesie] The pobodobesie this year marked a new high
Date: Mon, 9 May 2022 12:36:09 -0600
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 by: Ken Blake - Mon, 9 May 2022 18:36 UTC

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2022-05-09/putin-s-parades-can-t-hide-a-missing-victory-in-ukraine

Even for a country that has weaponized the memory of World War II with
hyperbolic celebrations of Victory Day, pobedobesie this year marked a new
high.

https://cepa.org/a-backward-looking-nation/
The phenomenon is called "Pobedobesie," or "victory frenzy." T

Re: [pobedobesie] The pobodobesie this year marked a new high

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Subject: Re: [pobedobesie] The pobodobesie this year marked a new high
From: bill...@shaw.ca (bil...@shaw.ca)
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 by: bil...@shaw.ca - Tue, 10 May 2022 00:44 UTC

On Monday, May 9, 2022 at 11:35:53 AM UTC-7, Ken Blake wrote:
> https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2022-05-09/putin-s-parades-can-t-hide-a-missing-victory-in-ukraine
>
> Even for a country that has weaponized the memory of World War II with
> hyperbolic celebrations of Victory Day, pobedobesie this year marked a new
> high.
>
> https://cepa.org/a-backward-looking-nation/
> The phenomenon is called "Pobedobesie," or "victory frenzy." T

Does Russia have a memorial or remembrance day to commemorate those who died
in past wars? That would be the least a country can do to balance the holidays
that come with victory parades.

bill

Re: [pobedobesie] The pobodobesie this year marked a new high

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From: lispamat...@crommatograph.info (Quinn C)
Subject: Re: [pobedobesie] The pobodobesie this year marked a new high
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 by: Quinn C - Tue, 10 May 2022 03:10 UTC

* bil...@shaw.ca:

> On Monday, May 9, 2022 at 11:35:53 AM UTC-7, Ken Blake wrote:
>> https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2022-05-09/putin-s-parades-can-t-hide-a-missing-victory-in-ukraine
>>
>> Even for a country that has weaponized the memory of World War II with
>> hyperbolic celebrations of Victory Day, pobedobesie this year marked a new
>> high.
>>
>> https://cepa.org/a-backward-looking-nation/
>> The phenomenon is called "Pobedobesie," or "victory frenzy." T
>
> Does Russia have a memorial or remembrance day to commemorate those who died
> in past wars? That would be the least a country can do to balance the holidays
> that come with victory parades.

Sure.

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Day_of_Remembrance_and_Sorrow> (22 June).
There's also the "Day of the unknown soldier" on 3 December.

Also interesting is the
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Day_of_Remembrance_of_the_Victims_of_Political_Repressions>
which commemorates the victims of political repression in the USSR - but
I guess not those of repression in post-Soviet Russia.

--
Please stop treating gender as though it were a set menu.
Gender is an a la carte arrangement.
-- S. Bear Bergman, The Field Guide to Transmasculine Creatures

Re: [pobedobesie] The pobodobesie this year marked a new high

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From: Ken...@invalidinvalid.com (Ken Blake)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: [pobedobesie] The pobodobesie this year marked a new high
Date: Thu, 12 May 2022 13:18:09 -0600
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 by: Ken Blake - Thu, 12 May 2022 19:18 UTC

On Mon, 9 May 2022 23:10:50 -0400, Quinn C wrote:
> Also interesting is the
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Day_of_Remembrance_of_the_Victims_of_Political_Repressions>
> which commemorates the victims of political repression in the USSR - but
> I guess not those of repression in post-Soviet Russia.

This is a direct question of the meaning, in Quora.

https://www.quora.com/What-does-pobedobesie-mean-in-Russian-1
What does "pobedobesie" mean in Russian?
"Pobeda" means victory. "-besie", the most possibly is taken from word
"mrakobesie", which means "obscurantism". Which comes from "mrak" =
"darkness" and "besit'sa" = "freak out". The root "bes" literally means
"imp" or "devil" (still, don't confuse it with prefix "bez/bes" which means
"without").

This word is used for turning May, 9th (day of Soviet victory over Nazi
Reich in World War II) into aggressive celebration of militarism. When
"Never again" turns into "We can repeat it".

That's how Russian fascism was grown by Putin's propaganda: fascist
ideology disguised as antifascism."

Re: [pobedobesie] The pobodobesie this year marked a new high

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From: Ken...@invalidinvalid.com (Ken Blake)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: [pobedobesie] The pobodobesie this year marked a new high
Date: Thu, 12 May 2022 13:23:22 -0600
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 by: Ken Blake - Thu, 12 May 2022 19:23 UTC

On Mon, 9 May 2022 17:44:19 -0700 (PDT), bil...@shaw.ca wrote:

> Does Russia have a memorial or remembrance day to commemorate those who died
> in past wars? That would be the least a country can do to balance the holidays
> that come with victory parades.

Apologies if these words have been covered in the past on this newsgroup.

This is a deeper analysis of the phenomenon in Russia.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/06/how-victory-day-became-central-to-putin-idea-of-russian-identity
"For some years, the victory cult has been referred to by critics as
pobedobesie, a derogatory play on the Russian words for victory and
obscurantism - "victorymania" is an approximate English translation.

As this pobedobesie metastasised year on year, the phenomenon took on forms
that were ever more grotesque: schools put on performances in which the
children dressed up as Soviet soldiers; people posing as captured Nazis
were paraded through the streets. Ever more opponents of modern Russia were
branded as Nazis, neo-Nazis or Nazi accomplices."

Found this digging into the etymology of Pobodobesie (don't know about
those characters though, whether they'll show up as they do for me).

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%B1%D0%B5%D0%B4%D0%BE%D0%B1%D0%B5%D1%81%D0%B8%D0%B5
From (pobeda, "victory") +‎ -о- (-o-) +‎ (bes, "demon") +‎ -(-ije).
The appearance of the word in 2005.

Re: [pobedobesie] The pobodobesie this year marked a new high

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Subject: Re: [pobedobesie] The pobodobesie this year marked a new high
From: gramma...@verizon.net (Peter T. Daniels)
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 by: Peter T. Daniels - Thu, 12 May 2022 19:49 UTC

On Thursday, May 12, 2022 at 3:23:04 PM UTC-4, Ken Blake wrote:

> Apologies if these words have been covered in the past on this newsgroup.

This is AUE, not AUR. No one here gives a damn that you are obsessed
with Russian propaganda, starting thread after thread that is ignored,
and then trying to revive them.

Re: [pobedobesie] The pobodobesie this year marked a new high

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From: adm...@127.0.0.1 (Kerr-Mudd, John)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: [pobedobesie] The pobodobesie this year marked a new high
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 by: Kerr-Mudd, John - Thu, 12 May 2022 20:37 UTC

On Thu, 12 May 2022 12:49:39 -0700 (PDT)
"Peter T. Daniels" <grammatim@verizon.net> wrote:

> On Thursday, May 12, 2022 at 3:23:04 PM UTC-4, Ken Blake wrote:
>
> > Apologies if these words have been covered in the past on this newsgroup.
>
> This is AUE, not AUR. No one here gives a damn that you are obsessed
> with Russian propaganda, starting thread after thread that is ignored,
> and then trying to revive them.

You objected to Tony Cooper generalising to the whole of the US for surname changes, yet you now want to speak for everyone in this group. And you are replying to the Fake Blake.

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

Re: [pobedobesie] The pobodobesie this year marked a new high

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From: tonycoop...@gmail.com (Tony Cooper)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: [pobedobesie] The pobodobesie this year marked a new high
Date: Thu, 12 May 2022 16:52:53 -0400
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 by: Tony Cooper - Thu, 12 May 2022 20:52 UTC

On Thu, 12 May 2022 21:37:44 +0100, "Kerr-Mudd, John"
<admin@127.0.0.1> wrote:

>On Thu, 12 May 2022 12:49:39 -0700 (PDT)
>"Peter T. Daniels" <grammatim@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>> On Thursday, May 12, 2022 at 3:23:04 PM UTC-4, Ken Blake wrote:
>>
>> > Apologies if these words have been covered in the past on this newsgroup.
>>
>> This is AUE, not AUR. No one here gives a damn that you are obsessed
>> with Russian propaganda, starting thread after thread that is ignored,
>> and then trying to revive them.
>
>You objected to Tony Cooper generalising to the whole of the US for surname changes, yet you now want to speak for everyone in this group. And you are replying to the Fake Blake.

I don't if PTD was just being his usual asshole self or if he's truly
that ignorant. Every method that I listed for a woman to change her
name is possible in every state in the US and in Washington DC.

--

Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida

I read and post to this group as a form of entertainment.

Re: [pobedobesie] The pobodobesie this year marked a new high

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From: Ken...@invalidinvalid.com (Ken Blake)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: [pobedobesie] The pobodobesie this year marked a new high
Date: Thu, 12 May 2022 18:17:39 -0600
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 by: Ken Blake - Fri, 13 May 2022 00:17 UTC

On Thu, 12 May 2022 16:52:53 -0400, Tony Cooper wrote:

> Every method that I listed...

More on the precise meaning & etymology of this pobedobesie terminology.

https://luhansker.wordpress.com/2016/05/01/pobedobesiye-cult-of-victory-in-russia/
'Pobedobesiye' - the cult of victory in Russia

Cult of victory in Russia looks more and more like psychosis. Victory
stands here for the end of World War II in Europe. But WWII is something
boring for Russians. Soviet historicians invented so called "Great
patriotic war" - the Soviet-German war during WWII, it was separated to
forget the fact that Stalin and Hitler began WWII earlier together as
allies.

In Russian language a neologism appeared to designate this nearly religious
cult of victory in Russia. The term pobedobesiye can be translated as
'victory devildom'.

Re: [pobedobesie] The pobodobesie this year marked a new high

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From: Ken...@invalidinvalid.com (Ken Blake)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: [pobedobesie] The pobodobesie this year marked a new high
Date: Thu, 12 May 2022 18:18:42 -0600
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 by: Ken Blake - Fri, 13 May 2022 00:18 UTC

On Thu, 12 May 2022 21:37:44 +0100, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:

> yet you now want to speak for everyone

Another contextual usage cite for pobedobesie.

https://theprint.in/opinion/vladimir-putins-parade-cant-hide-a-missing-victory/950049/

Even for a country that has weaponized the memory of World War II to the
point where there is a word for hyperbolic celebrations of Victory Day -
pobedobesie, or victory frenzy - this year marked a new high. With its
military bogged down in Ukraine, the domestic propaganda machine latched
onto past successes instead, going into overdrive ahead of Monday's
commemorations. The fevered pitch, in turn, fueled overseas speculation
that President Vladimir Putin would use the moment to mark a dramatic new
stage in his two-month war.

Re: [pobedobesie] The pobodobesie this year marked a new high

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From: bellemar...@gmail.com (CDB)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: [pobedobesie] The pobodobesie this year marked a new high
Date: Fri, 13 May 2022 06:38:49 -0400
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 by: CDB - Fri, 13 May 2022 10:38 UTC

On 5/12/2022 3:23 PM, Ken Blake wrote:
> bil...@shaw.ca wrote:

>> Does Russia have a memorial or remembrance day to commemorate those
>> who died in past wars? That would be the least a country can do to
>> balance the holidays that come with victory parades.

> Apologies if these words have been covered in the past on this
> newsgroup.

> This is a deeper analysis of the phenomenon in Russia.
> https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/06/how-victory-day-became-central-to-putin-idea-of-russian-identity
> "For some years, the victory cult has been referred to by critics
> as pobedobesie, a derogatory play on the Russian words for victory
> and obscurantism - "victorymania" is an approximate English
> translation.

> As this pobedobesie metastasised year on year, the phenomenon took on
> forms that were ever more grotesque: schools put on performances in
> which the children dressed up as Soviet soldiers; people posing as
> captured Nazis were paraded through the streets. Ever more opponents
> of modern Russia were branded as Nazis, neo-Nazis or Nazi
> accomplices."

> Found this digging into the etymology of Pobodobesie (don't know
> about those characters though, whether they'll show up as they do for
> me).
> https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%B1%D0%B5%D0%B4%D0%BE%D0%B1%D0%B5%D1%81%D0%B8%D0%B5
> From (pobeda, "victory") +‎ -о- (-o-) +‎ (bes, "demon") +‎ -(-ije).
> The appearance of the word in 2005.

An interesting word. Thank you.

Re: [pobedobesie] The pobodobesie this year marked a new high

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From: Ken...@invalidinvalid.com (Ken Blake)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: [pobedobesie] The pobodobesie this year marked a new high
Date: Fri, 13 May 2022 06:14:23 -0600
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 by: Ken Blake - Fri, 13 May 2022 12:14 UTC

On Fri, 13 May 2022 06:38:49 -0400, CDB wrote:

> An interesting word. Thank you.

I'm happy you appreciate the discussion, as I'm not sure which words have
been covered in the group given there are hundreds of thousands of thread.

It would be nice to have a list of words that have been covered (or a list
that hasn't), so it's good to know you found this thread of interest.

The first half of the word always seems to clearly mean victory, while the
latter half variously appears to results as some kind of demon in most
references, but sometimes with the latter meaning obscurantism in others,
and sundry variations of frenzy in more still.

Here's an article on just the word, for example.
https://therussianreader.com/tag/pobedobesie-victory-frenzy/

And yet, this is a slightly different interpretation.
https://hotair.com/headlines/2022/05/07/how-victory-day-became-central-to-putins-idea-of-russian-identity-n467692
"But already for some years, the victory cult has been referred to by
critics as pobedobesie, a derogatory play on the Russian words for victory
and obscurantism - 'victorymania' is an approximate English translation."

Yet another, which uses "fanaticism" as the latter half.
https://twitter.com/AlexKokcharov/status/1523212840772931586
"This is what "Pobedobesie" (WW2 victory fanaticism) - a quasi religious
cult of Victory Day - looks like in #Russia:"

Still another, this one substituting "mongering" for the latter half.
https://www.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/comments/ujw0qs/julia_davis_another_vivid_example_of_russias/
"Julia Davis: Another vivid example of Russia's "pobedobesie"
(victory-mongering) and probably the weirdest thing you'll watch today"

It's a useful word for any frenzy whipped up by mere victory, which I'm
sure the Japanese had in WWII in the beginning as likely did the Germans.

It seems to be tied up with revanchism, at least in this scholarly article.
https://suspilne.media/224964-a-history-russian-propaganda/
"The true cornerstone of Russia's propaganda machine is the attempt to own
victor's laurels in World War II. "Pobedobesie" is nothing else than a
modern version of Russian anti-western revanchism, used to spread the
ideology of great victory over evil by the Russian people, over and over
again."

We likely had it ourselves, as in the Spanish American War, and, perhaps,
we even have it for our favorite sports teams, in that it's an ill-begotten
frenzy of some sort, based purely on the result of the victory itself
perhaps.

Someone recently complained bitterly (Peter T. Daniels) that they were
indignantly shocked and dismayed that Russian-origin words were
infiltrating our language, which, I guess is a fundamentalist's exclusivity
privilege, but it's inescapable the realization that pobedobesie is showing
up in English-language reports.

And yet, it's used in our English press often enough that it's no longer
explained when being used, as in
https://sciworkcamp.wordpress.com/2019/07/22/wwii-in-mass-culture/
"The Second World war had left a noticeable trace on the people's everyday
life including world mass culture. If it can be said, it enriched cultural
heritage of mankind with many incredible artworks. But it also gave birth
to a huge amount of strange phenomena (e.g. 'pobedobesie')."
--
Cue the fart jokes from Peter T. Daniels.

Re: [pobedobesie] The pobodobesie this year marked a new high

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Subject: Re: [pobedobesie] The pobodobesie this year marked a new high
From: gramma...@verizon.net (Peter T. Daniels)
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 by: Peter T. Daniels - Fri, 13 May 2022 14:40 UTC

On Thursday, May 12, 2022 at 4:45:07 PM UTC-4, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
> On Thu, 12 May 2022 12:49:39 -0700 (PDT)
> "Peter T. Daniels" <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
> > On Thursday, May 12, 2022 at 3:23:04 PM UTC-4, Ken Blake wrote:
> > > Apologies if these words have been covered in the past on this newsgroup.
> > This is AUE, not AUR. No one here gives a damn that you are obsessed
> > with Russian propaganda, starting thread after thread that is ignored,
> > and then trying to revive them.
>
> You objected to Tony Cooper generalising to the whole of the US for surname changes, yet you now want to speak for everyone in this group. And you are replying to the Fake Blake.
> --
> Bah, and indeed Humbug.

How many people have continued to respond to Fake Blake,
since his true colors were revealed?

Why, in your opinion, dud he revive at least two un-answered March
threads in May?

Re: [pobedobesie] The pobodobesie this year marked a new high

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 by: Kerr-Mudd, John - Sat, 14 May 2022 08:33 UTC

On Fri, 13 May 2022 07:40:44 -0700 (PDT)
"Peter T. Daniels" <grammatim@verizon.net> wrote:

> On Thursday, May 12, 2022 at 4:45:07 PM UTC-4, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
> > On Thu, 12 May 2022 12:49:39 -0700 (PDT)
> > "Peter T. Daniels" <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
> > > On Thursday, May 12, 2022 at 3:23:04 PM UTC-4, Ken Blake wrote:
>
> > > > Apologies if these words have been covered in the past on this newsgroup.
> > > This is AUE, not AUR. No one here gives a damn that you are obsessed
> > > with Russian propaganda, starting thread after thread that is ignored,
> > > and then trying to revive them.
> >
> > You objected to Tony Cooper generalising to the whole of the US for surname changes, yet you now want to speak for everyone in this group. And you are replying to the Fake Blake.
> > --
> > Bah, and indeed Humbug.
>
> How many people have continued to respond to Fake Blake,
> since his true colors were revealed?
>
> Why, in your opinion, dud he revive at least two un-answered March
> threads in May?

Why do you think I will answer your questions?

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

Re: [pobedobesie] The pobodobesie this year marked a new high

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 by: Sam Plusnet - Sat, 14 May 2022 19:04 UTC

On 14-May-22 9:33, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
> On Fri, 13 May 2022 07:40:44 -0700 (PDT)
> "Peter T. Daniels" <grammatim@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>> On Thursday, May 12, 2022 at 4:45:07 PM UTC-4, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
>>> On Thu, 12 May 2022 12:49:39 -0700 (PDT)
>>> "Peter T. Daniels" <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>>> On Thursday, May 12, 2022 at 3:23:04 PM UTC-4, Ken Blake wrote:
>>
>>>>> Apologies if these words have been covered in the past on this newsgroup.
>>>> This is AUE, not AUR. No one here gives a damn that you are obsessed
>>>> with Russian propaganda, starting thread after thread that is ignored,
>>>> and then trying to revive them.
>>>
>>> You objected to Tony Cooper generalising to the whole of the US for surname changes, yet you now want to speak for everyone in this group. And you are replying to the Fake Blake.
>>> --
>>> Bah, and indeed Humbug.
>>
>> How many people have continued to respond to Fake Blake,
>> since his true colors were revealed?
>>
>> Why, in your opinion, dud he revive at least two un-answered March
>> threads in May?
>
> Why do you think I will answer your questions?
>
Dunno, but he simply ignored your valid comments and responded with
evasion and 'let's shift the topic'.

--
Sam Plusnet

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Subject: Re: [pobedobesie] The pobodobesie this year marked a new high
From: gramma...@verizon.net (Peter T. Daniels)
Injection-Date: Sat, 14 May 2022 19:16:02 +0000
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 by: Peter T. Daniels - Sat, 14 May 2022 19:16 UTC

On Saturday, May 14, 2022 at 3:04:11 PM UTC-4, Sam Plusnet wrote:
> On 14-May-22 9:33, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
> > On Fri, 13 May 2022 07:40:44 -0700 (PDT)
> > "Peter T. Daniels" <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
> >> On Thursday, May 12, 2022 at 4:45:07 PM UTC-4, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
> >>> On Thu, 12 May 2022 12:49:39 -0700 (PDT)
> >>> "Peter T. Daniels" <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
> >>>> On Thursday, May 12, 2022 at 3:23:04 PM UTC-4, Ken Blake wrote:

> >>>>> Apologies if these words have been covered in the past on this newsgroup.
> >>>> This is AUE, not AUR. No one here gives a damn that you are obsessed
> >>>> with Russian propaganda, starting thread after thread that is ignored,
> >>>> and then trying to revive them.
> >>> You objected to Tony Cooper generalising to the whole of the US for surname changes, yet you now want to speak for everyone in this group. And you are replying to the Fake Blake.
> >>> --
> >>> Bah, and indeed Humbug.
> >> How many people have continued to respond to Fake Blake,
> >> since his true colors were revealed?
> >> Why, in your opinion, dud he revive at least two un-answered March
> >> threads in May?
> > Why do you think I will answer your questions?
>
> Dunno, but he simply ignored your valid comments and responded with
> evasion and 'let's shift the topic'.

What is "valid" about Mudd's comments, given that everyone except Fake
Blake ignores Fake Blake?

My posting in this thread was not a reply _to_ Fake Blake. It did not
address his topic. It was a meta-comment, addressed to the vapid
phenomenon of Fake Blake postings.

Re: [pobedobesie] The pobodobesie this year marked a new high

<t7o02f$jp3$1@news.mixmin.net>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=134987&group=alt.usage.english#134987

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From: cri...@removespam.me.com (cris)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: [pobedobesie] The pobodobesie this year marked a new high
Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2022 14:28:14 -0230
Organization: Mixmin
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 by: cris - Tue, 7 Jun 2022 16:58 UTC

On 14/05/2022 13:16, Peter T. Daniels wrote:

> My posting in this thread was not a reply _to_ Fake Blake. It did not
> address his topic. It was a meta-comment

The apropos question remains whether Peter T. Daniels has ever posted an
added-value opening thread or message of any topical merit in this English
language newsgroup within the entire history of the existence of Usenet.

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