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interests / alt.usage.english / Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

SubjectAuthor
* An interlingual phonetic coincidenceBebercito
+- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceStefan Ram
+* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter T. Daniels
|`* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceBebercito
| +- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencespains...@gmail.com
| `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter T. Daniels
|  +- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceQuinn C
|  `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceBebercito
|   +- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceCDB
|   `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceRoss Clark
|    +* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceBebercito
|    |`* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter T. Daniels
|    | `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceBebercito
|    |  +- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter T. Daniels
|    |  `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceRoss Clark
|    |   +* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceStefan Ram
|    |   |`- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceRoss Clark
|    |   `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceBebercito
|    |    +- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceBebercito
|    |    `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceRoss Clark
|    |     `- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceBebercito
|    `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceSnidely
|     `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceAthel Cornish-Bowden
|      +* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceKen Blake
|      |`* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceSnidely
|      | +- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceSnidely
|      | +- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceCDB
|      | +* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter T. Daniels
|      | |`* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceAdam Funk
|      | | `- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter T. Daniels
|      | `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceQuinn C
|      |  +* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencelar3ryca
|      |  |`- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceStefan Ram
|      |  `- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencelar3ryca
|      `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceHibou
|       +* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter Moylan
|       |`* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceHibou
|       | +* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter Moylan
|       | |+* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceHibou
|       | ||+* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter Moylan
|       | |||`- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceDingbat
|       | ||`- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceKerr-Mudd, John
|       | |`* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceKen Blake
|       | | +* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencecharles
|       | | |+* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceKen Blake
|       | | ||+- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencecharles
|       | | ||`* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter Moylan
|       | | || `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceKen Blake
|       | | ||  +* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceLewis
|       | | ||  |`- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter Moylan
|       | | ||  `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceQuinn C
|       | | ||   `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceKen Blake
|       | | ||    +- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter T. Daniels
|       | | ||    `- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceKerr-Mudd, John
|       | | |+* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencelar3ryca
|       | | ||+* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceTony Cooper
|       | | |||+- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceGordonD
|       | | |||`- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter T. Daniels
|       | | ||+* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceSam Plusnet
|       | | |||`* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencelar3ryca
|       | | ||| `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceSam Plusnet
|       | | |||  `- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencelar3ryca
|       | | ||`* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePaul Wolff
|       | | || `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceJoy Beeson
|       | | ||  `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceSam Plusnet
|       | | ||   +* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceStefan Ram
|       | | ||   |`* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceRichard Heathfield
|       | | ||   | `- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceSam Plusnet
|       | | ||   `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceJanet
|       | | ||    `- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceMack A. Damia
|       | | |`- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter T. Daniels
|       | | `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePaul Wolff
|       | |  +- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceTony Cooper
|       | |  `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter Moylan
|       | |   +- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencelar3ryca
|       | |   +* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencelar3ryca
|       | |   |+* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter T. Daniels
|       | |   ||`- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter Moylan
|       | |   |`* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceSnidely
|       | |   | `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencelar3ryca
|       | |   |  +* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter Moylan
|       | |   |  |`* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceAnders D. Nygaard
|       | |   |  | `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceMark Brader
|       | |   |  |  `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceQuinn C
|       | |   |  |   `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceBebercito
|       | |   |  |    `- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceQuinn C
|       | |   |  `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceMark Brader
|       | |   |   `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceTony Cooper
|       | |   |    +* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencebil...@shaw.ca
|       | |   |    |+* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter T. Daniels
|       | |   |    ||`* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceJerry Friedman
|       | |   |    || +- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter Moylan
|       | |   |    || `- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceMadhu
|       | |   |    |`- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceKen Blake
|       | |   |    `- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceAthel Cornish-Bowden
|       | |   `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencebil...@shaw.ca
|       | |    +* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceKerr-Mudd, John
|       | |    |+* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter Moylan
|       | |    ||+* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceKen Blake
|       | |    |||`* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter Moylan
|       | |    ||| `- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceSilvano
|       | |    ||`- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceStoat
|       | |    |+- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceQuinn C
|       | |    |+- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceSam Plusnet
|       | |    |`* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencecharles
|       | |    `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceJerry Friedman
|       | `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceTony Cooper
|       +* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter T. Daniels
|       `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceSnidely
`* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceDingbat

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Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

<dpb28ht8vv5hsohdt61mjkbo1fjqqd0ec0@4ax.com>

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https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=131087&group=alt.usage.english#131087

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From: Ken...@invalid.news.com (Ken Blake)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 09:53:57 -0700
Lines: 36
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 by: Ken Blake - Sun, 15 May 2022 16:53 UTC

On Sun, 15 May 2022 17:28:34 +0100, charles <charles@candehope.me.uk>
wrote:

>In article <of828h99kbr4tejqbopn56t8ebs8qkjtbg@4ax.com>,
> Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:
>> On Sun, 15 May 2022 20:25:01 +1000, Peter Moylan
>> <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>
>> >On 15/05/22 18:17, Hibou wrote:
>> >> Le 15/05/2022 à 07:10, Peter Moylan a écrit :
>> >>> On 15/05/22 15:29, Hibou wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> There are certainly a lot of differences in
>> >>>> transport-transportation: lorry-truck, pavement-sidewalk,
>> >>>> give-way-yield, underground-subway, subway-?
>> >>>
>> >>> Underpass, I think. Or possibly tunnel.
>> >>
>> >> Usage is a bit fluid here in GB. In general, I would associate a
>> >> subway with pedestrians and an underpass with vehicles.
>> >
>> >So would I, but I thought you were looking for the AmE term. As far as I
>> >know a pedestrian underpass is not called a subway in the US.
>
>> You are correct. In AmE a "subway" is what BrE calls "tube" or
>> "underground."
>
>Unless the "subway" is a sort of sandwich

"Subway" is the name of a chain of sandwich shops, but I wouldn't call
what they sell subways. Calling what Subways sells "subways" is like
calling what McDonalds sells "McDonalds."

Are you hungry? Would you rather have a McDonald or a Subway?

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

<t5rbg6$s3b$1@dont-email.me>

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From: lar...@invalid.ca (lar3ryca)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 10:58:45 -0600
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 by: lar3ryca - Sun, 15 May 2022 16:58 UTC

On 2022-05-15 10:28, charles wrote:
> In article <of828h99kbr4tejqbopn56t8ebs8qkjtbg@4ax.com>,
> Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:
>> On Sun, 15 May 2022 20:25:01 +1000, Peter Moylan
>> <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>
>>> On 15/05/22 18:17, Hibou wrote:
>>>> Le 15/05/2022 à 07:10, Peter Moylan a écrit :
>>>>> On 15/05/22 15:29, Hibou wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There are certainly a lot of differences in
>>>>>> transport-transportation: lorry-truck, pavement-sidewalk,
>>>>>> give-way-yield, underground-subway, subway-?
>>>>>
>>>>> Underpass, I think. Or possibly tunnel.
>>>>
>>>> Usage is a bit fluid here in GB. In general, I would associate a
>>>> subway with pedestrians and an underpass with vehicles.
>>>
>>> So would I, but I thought you were looking for the AmE term. As far as I
>>> know a pedestrian underpass is not called a subway in the US.
>
>> You are correct. In AmE a "subway" is what BrE calls "tube" or
>> "underground."
>
> Unless the "subway" is a sort of sandwich

obSemantic-quibble.

There is no 'subway sandwich'. There are "Subway sandwiches", because it
is the name of a place that sells sandwiches that happen to be known as
submarine sandwiches because of their shape.

--
If you sat on your voodoo doll, you wouldn't be able get back up.

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

<59e9113a55charles@candehope.me.uk>

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From: char...@candehope.me.uk (charles)
Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 18:04:58 +0100
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 by: charles - Sun, 15 May 2022 17:04 UTC

In article <dpb28ht8vv5hsohdt61mjkbo1fjqqd0ec0@4ax.com>, Ken Blake
<Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 15 May 2022 17:28:34 +0100, charles <charles@candehope.me.uk>
> wrote:

> >In article <of828h99kbr4tejqbopn56t8ebs8qkjtbg@4ax.com>, Ken Blake
> > <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:
> >> On Sun, 15 May 2022 20:25:01 +1000, Peter Moylan
> >> <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
> >
> >> >On 15/05/22 18:17, Hibou wrote:
> >> >> Le 15/05/2022 à 07:10, Peter Moylan a écrit :
> >> >>> On 15/05/22 15:29, Hibou wrote:
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> There are certainly a lot of differences in
> >> >>>> transport-transportation: lorry-truck, pavement-sidewalk,
> >> >>>> give-way-yield, underground-subway, subway-?
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Underpass, I think. Or possibly tunnel.
> >> >>
> >> >> Usage is a bit fluid here in GB. In general, I would associate a
> >> >> subway with pedestrians and an underpass with vehicles.
> >> >
> >> >So would I, but I thought you were looking for the AmE term. As far
> >> >as I know a pedestrian underpass is not called a subway in the US.
> >
> >> You are correct. In AmE a "subway" is what BrE calls "tube" or
> >> "underground."
> >
> >Unless the "subway" is a sort of sandwich

> "Subway" is the name of a chain of sandwich shops, but I wouldn't call
> what they sell subways. Calling what Subways sells "subways" is like
> calling what McDonalds sells "McDonalds."

> Are you hungry? Would you rather have a McDonald or a Subway?

neither, thanks you; I've recently been diagnosed as diabetic - white bread
is off the menu. but it appeasrs that the company 'Subway'call their main
product "Sub" rather as McDonald refer to a "Mac".

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

<9fd28hdfcg43t5vtbtonaiupplhvisb0l4@4ax.com>

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From: tonycoop...@gmail.com (Tony Cooper)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 13:25:14 -0400
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 by: Tony Cooper - Sun, 15 May 2022 17:25 UTC

On Sun, 15 May 2022 10:58:45 -0600, lar3ryca <larry@invalid.ca> wrote:

>On 2022-05-15 10:28, charles wrote:
>> In article <of828h99kbr4tejqbopn56t8ebs8qkjtbg@4ax.com>,
>> Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:
>>> On Sun, 15 May 2022 20:25:01 +1000, Peter Moylan
>>> <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>> On 15/05/22 18:17, Hibou wrote:
>>>>> Le 15/05/2022 à 07:10, Peter Moylan a écrit :
>>>>>> On 15/05/22 15:29, Hibou wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There are certainly a lot of differences in
>>>>>>> transport-transportation: lorry-truck, pavement-sidewalk,
>>>>>>> give-way-yield, underground-subway, subway-?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Underpass, I think. Or possibly tunnel.
>>>>>
>>>>> Usage is a bit fluid here in GB. In general, I would associate a
>>>>> subway with pedestrians and an underpass with vehicles.
>>>>
>>>> So would I, but I thought you were looking for the AmE term. As far as I
>>>> know a pedestrian underpass is not called a subway in the US.
>>
>>> You are correct. In AmE a "subway" is what BrE calls "tube" or
>>> "underground."
>>
>> Unless the "subway" is a sort of sandwich
>
>obSemantic-quibble.
>
>There is no 'subway sandwich'. There are "Subway sandwiches", because it
>is the name of a place that sells sandwiches that happen to be known as
>submarine sandwiches because of their shape.

The Subway chain outlets (that I have been in in this area) all have
wallpaper that depicts NYC subway scenes. The chain, though, started
in Connecticut selling "submarine sandwiches" or "subs". The chain
name, obviously, was a play on "sub" and not a reference to the
subway. The first location was called "Pete's Subway".

It was several years before they opened stores in NYC.

--

Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida

I read and post to this group as a form of entertainment.

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Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
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 by: GordonD - Sun, 15 May 2022 17:48 UTC

On 15/05/2022 18:25, Tony Cooper wrote:
> On Sun, 15 May 2022 10:58:45 -0600, lar3ryca <larry@invalid.ca> wrote:
>
>> On 2022-05-15 10:28, charles wrote:
>>> In article <of828h99kbr4tejqbopn56t8ebs8qkjtbg@4ax.com>,
>>> Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 15 May 2022 20:25:01 +1000, Peter Moylan
>>>> <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> On 15/05/22 18:17, Hibou wrote:
>>>>>> Le 15/05/2022 à 07:10, Peter Moylan a écrit :
>>>>>>> On 15/05/22 15:29, Hibou wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There are certainly a lot of differences in
>>>>>>>> transport-transportation: lorry-truck, pavement-sidewalk,
>>>>>>>> give-way-yield, underground-subway, subway-?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Underpass, I think. Or possibly tunnel.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Usage is a bit fluid here in GB. In general, I would associate a
>>>>>> subway with pedestrians and an underpass with vehicles.
>>>>>
>>>>> So would I, but I thought you were looking for the AmE term. As far as I
>>>>> know a pedestrian underpass is not called a subway in the US.
>>>
>>>> You are correct. In AmE a "subway" is what BrE calls "tube" or
>>>> "underground."
>>>
>>> Unless the "subway" is a sort of sandwich
>>
>> obSemantic-quibble.
>>
>> There is no 'subway sandwich'. There are "Subway sandwiches", because it
>> is the name of a place that sells sandwiches that happen to be known as
>> submarine sandwiches because of their shape.
>
> The Subway chain outlets (that I have been in in this area) all have
> wallpaper that depicts NYC subway scenes.

They do in the UK as well - maps, anyway.

--
Gordon Davie
Edinburgh, Scotland

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

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 by: Ruud Harmsen - Sun, 15 May 2022 18:06 UTC

Sat, 14 May 2022 13:52:31 -0600: lar3ryca <larry@invalid.ca> scribeva:

>On 2022-05-14 13:45, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
>> Sat, 14 May 2022 12:10:36 -0700 (PDT): "Peter T. Daniels"
>> <grammatim@verizon.net> scribeva:
>>
>>> Useful would be information as to whether Du. "duur" also has the other
>>> meaning of the English, Russian, French, and (marginally) German words
>>> that have been mentioned.
>>
>> Dutch duur mean expensive, costly, not dear.
>
>Hmmm... since 'dear' (in English), is a synonym of 'costly' and
>'expensive',

But an unusual one, then. Not one that I knew about. Or that I have
learnt to avoid as a potential false friend. Does this now me dearly?

>doesn't that mean that 'duur' is also a synonym of 'dear'?

No. I meant only the most frequent senses of the English word.

>> But we also have dierbaar, which means dear, close to someone's heart.
>> They are indeed related: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/dierbaar

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/dear
Sense 9, [mainly British, informal, disapproval].

==
5. high-priced; expensive
The silk dress was too dear
6. charging high prices
That shop is too dear for my budget
==

Never heard or read anything like that before. Dutch influence in
America? Or German influence, teuer?

Well, 2000 and 3000 years there were already both senses:
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Germanic/diurijaz
dear, precious
expensive

--
Ruud Harmsen, http://rudhar.com

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Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
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 by: Ruud Harmsen - Sun, 15 May 2022 18:10 UTC

Sun, 15 May 2022 20:06:03 +0200: Ruud Harmsen <rh@rudhar.com>
scribeva:
>Well, 2000 and 3000 years there were already both senses:
>https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Germanic/diurijaz
> dear, precious
> expensive

That cognates in two languages can have the same meaning or meanings,
does not mean they are interchangeable. For example, Dutch inderdaad
is the same as English indeed, but often you can't translate one by
the other, nor vice versa. Sometimes you can. The meanings are largely
the same.

Many Dutch speakers don't know this and make mistakes with it. I do
know, and nevertheless also find it difficult.

Many more such examples exist.


--
Ruud Harmsen, http://rudhar.com

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 by: Ruud Harmsen - Sun, 15 May 2022 18:13 UTC

Sun, 15 May 2022 20:10:03 +0200: Ruud Harmsen <rh@rudhar.com>
scribeva:
>That cognates in two languages can have the same meaning or meanings,
>does not mean they are interchangeable. For example, Dutch inderdaad
>is the same as English indeed, but often you can't translate one by
>the other, nor vice versa. Sometimes you can. The meanings are largely
>the same.
>
>Many Dutch speakers don't know this and make mistakes with it. I do
>know, and nevertheless also find it difficult.
>
>Many more such examples exist.

This morning I heard a silly ad on Youtube, in which an English
expression was translated literally. It was wrong, because the same
expression exists in Dutch, but slightly different, minus one word.

Now I wish I could remember what the expression was. But I can't.
--
Ruud Harmsen, http://rudhar.com

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

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 by: Ruud Harmsen - Sun, 15 May 2022 18:15 UTC

Sat, 14 May 2022 23:16:00 +0200: nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J.
Lodder) scribeva:

>Peter T. Daniels <grammatim@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>> On Saturday, May 14, 2022 at 1:53:49 PM UTC-4, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>> > Peter T. Daniels <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> > > On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 5:43:06 PM UTC-4, benl...@ihug.co.nz wrote:
>> > > > On 14/05/2022 2:36 a.m., Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>> > > > > On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 1:08:22 AM UTC-4, Dingbat wrote:
>> > > > >> On Monday, May 9, 2022 at 7:22:46 AM UTC-7, Bebercito wrote:
>>
>> > > > >>> Two French words, "charretière" and "jarretière" phonetically differ
>> > > > >>> only by their first consonants being respectively the unvoiced
>> > > > >>> and voiced forms of the same consonant, i.e [?] and [?].
>> > > > >>> Now, the English counterparts of those two words, "carter" and
>> > > > >>> "garter", have the same trait with different first consonants,
>> > > > >>> i.e [k] and [g], where the former is the unvoiced form of the
>> > > > >>> latter.
>> > > > >>> Isn't that weird?
>> > > > >> Not if they came from those French words.
>> > > > >> This is a curious coincidence:
>> > > > >> English DEAR and Russian DOROGOY have the same two meanings:
>> > > > >> 1) Beloved
>> > > > >> 2) Expensive
>> > > > > French CHER as well. It's beginning to look non-coincidental, no?
>> > > > Indeed. The English seems to be two directions of development from an
>> > > > original meaning something like "precious, valuable, worthy". I feel
>> > > > them as quite separate now; I knew the "beloved" one from childhood, but
>> > > > only encountered the "expensive" one in adolescence from British sources
>> > > > (spoken and written), and found it surprising.
>> > > Interesting. It was my grandmother's (b. 1891, Brooklyn) regular
>> > > word for 'expensive'.
>> >
>> > If Brooklyn from Dutch 'duur', perhaps,
>>
>> Uh, no.
>
>Usages may last,

Usage may persist.

Better English, I think.
--
Ruud Harmsen, http://rudhar.com

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 by: Ruud Harmsen - Sun, 15 May 2022 18:21 UTC

Sun, 15 May 2022 00:01:36 -0700 (PDT): Dingbat
<ranjit_mathews@yahoo.com> scribeva:
>My Malayalam speaking paternal grandmother spoke little English
>but used cypher to mean zero. I haven't heard any English speaker
>in India or elsewhere use cypher with that meaning. So, I can't
>imagine where she borrowed it from;.

The little of Arabic I learnt in the 1970 from radio programs for
foreign workers: sifr ashrá, 010, the telephone prefix of Rotterdam.

>zero is one of the meanings listed here for cypher
>https://www.thefreedictionary.com/cypher

It is the original meaning.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/cijfer#Etymology_1
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/cifra#Latin
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D8%B5%D9%81%D8%B1#Arabic

But
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D8%B5%D9%81%D8%B1#Etymology_5
suggests that the original original is in Sanskrit! Or was the
Sanskrit from Semitic, the loaned back into Arabic? This make isn't
quite clear, or I don't understand it.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Glossary#semantic_loan
That probably explains it.

So the original meaning is not zero, but empty or void.
--
Ruud Harmsen, http://rudhar.com

"dear" (was: An interlingual phonetic coincidence)

<dear-20220515193207@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>

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From: ram...@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram)
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Subject: "dear" (was: An interlingual phonetic coincidence)
Date: 15 May 2022 18:40:09 GMT
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 by: Stefan Ram - Sun, 15 May 2022 18:40 UTC

Ruud Harmsen <rh@rudhar.com> writes:
>Never heard or read anything like that before.

From a book (slightly edited):

|"Dear" is an adjective meaning "expensive":
|/Medical insurance is becoming too dear for many Americans/.
|The sense is more frequent among the British; more commonly
|Americans use "expensive" or "costly", favoring "dear"
|instead in the sense "beloved", "treasured," as in "my dear
|friend". All these uses are standard, however.
| |When they mean "at a high price or cost," "dear" and "dearly"
|are interchangeable adverbs:
|/These strawberries are priced too dear [dearly] for me/;
|in all other contexts, only "dearly" is an adverb:
|/I'd dearly love to be present when they meet/.
| from a book (slightly edited).

"Dear" might have the sense "expensive" in some of the
following quotations:

|You have bought her too dearly, and your brother does n - Austen
|etimes be purchased too dearly. Kitty and Lydia take hi - Austen
|culate, and not pay too dear for what you get. You must - Boswell
|tly observed it was too dear; for that he could have ve - Boswell
|mphs have cost them too dear? Would not such another ru - Bronte
|rings you is bought too dear, monsieur; this coming and - Bronte
|hat, or else it was too dear, and you know fish is dear - Butler
|coal fire, when not too dear; I like a beef-steak, too, - Byron
|children are become too dear for the lower orders. Amon - Byron
|: I thought nothing too dear to pay for this the riches - Cleland
| purchase my Safety too dear. By this Management I foun - Defoe
|nt of things to pay too dear for his Pleasures; he bega - Defoe
| I don't want to be too dear. That, to start with. When - Dickens
| ­ the coaches were too dear ­ she must give them up; b - Eliot
|ay not be purchased too dear, and mere amiableness must - Emerson
|eatned only himself too dear a Price for such Embraces. - Fielding
|is is not to buy at too dear a Price. Now, whoever take - Fielding
|y, than to buy them too dear. Besides, a Day or two hen - Fielding
|its Commodities are too dear for his Purchase. But I mu - Fielding
|the Truth, is often too dearly purchased; and though it - Fielding
|erectness were paid too dear. The shining arms were mea - James
|you ask me, they're too dear, much too dear,« I said. » - James
|!« »Are your rooms too dear? if they are you can have - James
|Who can buy thee at too dear a rate, since there is no - Jonson
| off. What would be too dear a price for this lovely gi - Lewis
|t have a Nation pay too dear for so transient a Pleasur - Mandeville
| scarcely any price too dear which will purchase his da - Melville
|urch sold her wares too dear, that the spiritual freedo - Scott
|omforts will become too dear to be hazarded without som - Scott
|ends, my thanks are too dear a halfpenny. Were you not - Shakespeare
|t they think we are too dear. The leanness that afflict - Shakespeare
|of us is ten groats too dear. What art thou? and how co - Shakespeare
|d them sixpence all too dear, With that he call'd the t - Shakespeare
|ou pay a great deal too dear for what's given freely. A - Shakespeare
|y, my deare loue, O too deare loue, loue bought with de - Spenser
| my own carcass any too dear. Thirty guineas on the sea - Stevenson
|le-d'hôte had grown too dear for him. As we know from G - Thackeray
|ot picturs, they're too dear. If he won't stand it. Tak - Thackeray
| can be too fine or too dear. What can a factory-girl e - Thackeray
|hed descendant, who too dearly pays for ­ Ere he could - Walpole
|»Farewell! thou are too dear for my possessing, And lik - Wilde
quotations.

OTOH, German has the meaning "dear" quite well!
But it's rare in today's everyday language.

|einem Grab.« 42. "Teurer Freund! Was soll es nützen, - Heine
|set uns stark sein, teure Freunde! teure Mutter! ich ga - Hoelderlin
|uf. KUNIGUNDE. Mein teurer Freund! Ihr selber wollt ­? - Kleist
|ung an mich »seinem theuren Freunde Friedrich Nietzsche - Nietzsche
|lt. Glaub mir, mein teurer Freund, ich kenne die Könige - Wedekind
|echt aufs Gewissen, teurer Freund. Denken Sie nach, wie - Goethe
|ücken! BERTA. Sieh, teurer Freund, warum ich trauerte, - Schiller
|nk, mein geliebter, theurer Freund! für Ihren gütigen B - Knigge
|erloren. Wir beide, theure Freundin! wir beide kannten - Schopenhauer
quotations.

"dear" (was: An interlingual phonetic coincidence)

<dear-20220515194141@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>

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From: ram...@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: "dear" (was: An interlingual phonetic coincidence)
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 by: Stefan Ram - Sun, 15 May 2022 18:42 UTC

Supersedes: <dear-20220515193207@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>
[edited the line with "is an adjective" a bit]

Ruud Harmsen <rh@rudhar.com> writes:
>Never heard or read anything like that before.

From a book (slightly edited):

|"Dear" is an adjective that can also mean "expensive":
|/Medical insurance is becoming too dear for many Americans/.
|The sense is more frequent among the British; more commonly
|Americans use "expensive" or "costly", favoring "dear"
|instead in the sense "beloved", "treasured," as in "my dear
|friend". All these uses are standard, however.
| |When they mean "at a high price or cost," "dear" and "dearly"
|are interchangeable adverbs:
|/These strawberries are priced too dear [dearly] for me/;
|in all other contexts, only "dearly" is an adverb:
|/I'd dearly love to be present when they meet/.
| from a book (slightly edited).

"Dear" might have the sense "expensive" in some of the
following quotations:

|You have bought her too dearly, and your brother does n - Austen
|etimes be purchased too dearly. Kitty and Lydia take hi - Austen
|culate, and not pay too dear for what you get. You must - Boswell
|tly observed it was too dear; for that he could have ve - Boswell
|mphs have cost them too dear? Would not such another ru - Bronte
|rings you is bought too dear, monsieur; this coming and - Bronte
|hat, or else it was too dear, and you know fish is dear - Butler
|coal fire, when not too dear; I like a beef-steak, too, - Byron
|children are become too dear for the lower orders. Amon - Byron
|: I thought nothing too dear to pay for this the riches - Cleland
| purchase my Safety too dear. By this Management I foun - Defoe
|nt of things to pay too dear for his Pleasures; he bega - Defoe
| I don't want to be too dear. That, to start with. When - Dickens
| ­ the coaches were too dear ­ she must give them up; b - Eliot
|ay not be purchased too dear, and mere amiableness must - Emerson
|eatned only himself too dear a Price for such Embraces. - Fielding
|is is not to buy at too dear a Price. Now, whoever take - Fielding
|y, than to buy them too dear. Besides, a Day or two hen - Fielding
|its Commodities are too dear for his Purchase. But I mu - Fielding
|the Truth, is often too dearly purchased; and though it - Fielding
|erectness were paid too dear. The shining arms were mea - James
|you ask me, they're too dear, much too dear,« I said. » - James
|!« »Are your rooms too dear? if they are you can have - James
|Who can buy thee at too dear a rate, since there is no - Jonson
| off. What would be too dear a price for this lovely gi - Lewis
|t have a Nation pay too dear for so transient a Pleasur - Mandeville
| scarcely any price too dear which will purchase his da - Melville
|urch sold her wares too dear, that the spiritual freedo - Scott
|omforts will become too dear to be hazarded without som - Scott
|ends, my thanks are too dear a halfpenny. Were you not - Shakespeare
|t they think we are too dear. The leanness that afflict - Shakespeare
|of us is ten groats too dear. What art thou? and how co - Shakespeare
|d them sixpence all too dear, With that he call'd the t - Shakespeare
|ou pay a great deal too dear for what's given freely. A - Shakespeare
|y, my deare loue, O too deare loue, loue bought with de - Spenser
| my own carcass any too dear. Thirty guineas on the sea - Stevenson
|le-d'hôte had grown too dear for him. As we know from G - Thackeray
|ot picturs, they're too dear. If he won't stand it. Tak - Thackeray
| can be too fine or too dear. What can a factory-girl e - Thackeray
|hed descendant, who too dearly pays for ­ Ere he could - Walpole
|»Farewell! thou are too dear for my possessing, And lik - Wilde
quotations.

OTOH, German has the meaning "dear" quite well!
But it's rare in today's everyday language.

|einem Grab.« 42. "Teurer Freund! Was soll es nützen, - Heine
|set uns stark sein, teure Freunde! teure Mutter! ich ga - Hoelderlin
|uf. KUNIGUNDE. Mein teurer Freund! Ihr selber wollt ­? - Kleist
|ung an mich »seinem theuren Freunde Friedrich Nietzsche - Nietzsche
|lt. Glaub mir, mein teurer Freund, ich kenne die Könige - Wedekind
|echt aufs Gewissen, teurer Freund. Denken Sie nach, wie - Goethe
|ücken! BERTA. Sieh, teurer Freund, warum ich trauerte, - Schiller
|nk, mein geliebter, theurer Freund! für Ihren gütigen B - Knigge
|erloren. Wir beide, theure Freundin! wir beide kannten - Schopenhauer
quotations.

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

<j0cgK.452627$2OB.157499@fx09.ams1>

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 by: Sam Plusnet - Sun, 15 May 2022 18:55 UTC

On 15-May-22 17:58, lar3ryca wrote:

> There is no 'subway sandwich'. There are "Subway sandwiches", because it
> is the name of a place that sells sandwiches that happen to be known as
> submarine sandwiches because of their shape.

It's not the most convincing comparison.

--
Sam Plusnet

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

<L6wJRUMY6UgiFABW@wolff.co.uk>

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From: bounc...@thiswontwork.wolff.co.uk (Paul Wolff)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
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 by: Paul Wolff - Sun, 15 May 2022 19:03 UTC

On Sun, 15 May 2022, at 10:58:45, lar3ryca posted:
>On 2022-05-15 10:28, charles wrote:
>> In article <of828h99kbr4tejqbopn56t8ebs8qkjtbg@4ax.com>,
>> Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:
>>> On Sun, 15 May 2022 20:25:01 +1000, Peter Moylan
>>> <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>> On 15/05/22 18:17, Hibou wrote:
>>>>> Le 15/05/2022 à 07:10, Peter Moylan a écrit :
>>>>>> On 15/05/22 15:29, Hibou wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There are certainly a lot of differences in
>>>>>>> transport-transportation: lorry-truck, pavement-sidewalk,
>>>>>>> give-way-yield, underground-subway, subway-?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Underpass, I think. Or possibly tunnel.
>>>>>
>>>>> Usage is a bit fluid here in GB. In general, I would associate a
>>>>> subway with pedestrians and an underpass with vehicles.
>>>>
>>>> So would I, but I thought you were looking for the AmE term. As far as I
>>>> know a pedestrian underpass is not called a subway in the US.
>>
>>> You are correct. In AmE a "subway" is what BrE calls "tube" or
>>> "underground."
>> Unless the "subway" is a sort of sandwich
>
>obSemantic-quibble.
>
>There is no 'subway sandwich'. There are "Subway sandwiches", because
>it is the name of a place that sells sandwiches that happen to be known
>as submarine sandwiches because of their shape.
>
I've never found the conning tower. Torpedo, on the other hand, would do
nicely.
--
Paul

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

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From: bounc...@thiswontwork.wolff.co.uk (Paul Wolff)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
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 by: Paul Wolff - Sun, 15 May 2022 19:02 UTC

On Sun, 15 May 2022, at 08:55:00, Ken Blake posted:
>On Sun, 15 May 2022 20:25:01 +1000, Peter Moylan
>>On 15/05/22 18:17, Hibou wrote:
>>> Le 15/05/2022 à 07:10, Peter Moylan a écrit :
>>>> On 15/05/22 15:29, Hibou wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> There are certainly a lot of differences in
>>>>> transport-transportation: lorry-truck, pavement-sidewalk,
>>>>> give-way-yield, underground-subway, subway-?
>>>>
>>>> Underpass, I think. Or possibly tunnel.
>>>
>>> Usage is a bit fluid here in GB. In general, I would associate a
>>> subway with pedestrians and an underpass with vehicles.
>>
>>So would I, but I thought you were looking for the AmE term. As far as I
>>know a pedestrian underpass is not called a subway in the US.
>
>You are correct. In AmE a "subway" is what BrE calls "tube" or
>"underground."

That is why my wife and I didn't get lunch in Anaheim, a suburb of Los
Angeles, after a business meeting. We were told we could get it at a
subway, which was [in a given direction]. We couldn't find the subway.
In the end, we gave up, and found a fast sandwich place instead.
--
Paul

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

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From: bounc...@thiswontwork.wolff.co.uk (Paul Wolff)
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 by: Paul Wolff - Sun, 15 May 2022 19:11 UTC

On Sun, 15 May 2022, at 12:05:04, Tony Cooper posted:
>On Sun, 15 May 2022 08:57:51 -0700, Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 15 May 2022 09:14:06 -0400, Tony Cooper
>><tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 15 May 2022 09:17:53 +0100, Hibou <h.i@b.ou> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Le 15/05/2022 à 07:10, Peter Moylan a écrit :
>>>>> On 15/05/22 15:29, Hibou wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There are certainly a lot of differences in transport-transportation:
>>>>>> lorry-truck, pavement-sidewalk, give-way-yield, underground-subway,
>>>>>> subway-?
>>>>>
>>>>> Underpass, I think. Or possibly tunnel.
>>>>
>>>>Usage is a bit fluid here in GB. In general, I would associate a subway
>>>>with pedestrians and an underpass with vehicles.
>>>>
>>>>The Underground in London is definitely the Underground (made up of the
>>>>Tube plus the original cut-and-cover lines), even though much of it runs
>>>>above ground; but the 'system' (one line) in Glasgow is usually called
>>>>the Subway.
>>>
>>>In Chicago, you can board the "El" at a station that is above ground
>>>or at a station that is below ground. It is still the El when it runs
>>>underground.
>>>
>>>The El is operated by the Chicago Transit Authority, and is officially
>>>named the 'L'.
>>
>>I'm certainly familiar with "El, "but I've never seen it called "L."
>
>Not only does the CTA use 'L', but they insist on the single ' on each
>side of the L.

Putin insists that Finland and Sweden shouldn't join NATO. Who wields
more power? Who gets more attention? And which needs to face reality?
>
>https://www.transitchicago.com/assets/1/6/ctamap_Lsystem.png
(Haven't been to look: left undisturbed for politeness' sake.)
--
Paul

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

<1ps0nh4.aho5wgjj7i16N%nospam@de-ster.demon.nl>

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From: nos...@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 21:57:04 +0200
Organization: De Ster
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 by: J. J. Lodder - Sun, 15 May 2022 19:57 UTC

Paul Wolff <bounceme@thiswontwork.wolff.co.uk> wrote:

> On Sun, 15 May 2022, at 12:05:04, Tony Cooper posted:
> >On Sun, 15 May 2022 08:57:51 -0700, Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com>
> >wrote:
> >
> >>On Sun, 15 May 2022 09:14:06 -0400, Tony Cooper
> >><tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>>On Sun, 15 May 2022 09:17:53 +0100, Hibou <h.i@b.ou> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>Le 15/05/2022 à 07:10, Peter Moylan a écrit :
> >>>>> On 15/05/22 15:29, Hibou wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> There are certainly a lot of differences in transport-transportation:
> >>>>>> lorry-truck, pavement-sidewalk, give-way-yield, underground-subway,
> >>>>>> subway-?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Underpass, I think. Or possibly tunnel.
> >>>>
> >>>>Usage is a bit fluid here in GB. In general, I would associate a subway
> >>>>with pedestrians and an underpass with vehicles.
> >>>>
> >>>>The Underground in London is definitely the Underground (made up of the
> >>>>Tube plus the original cut-and-cover lines), even though much of it runs
> >>>>above ground; but the 'system' (one line) in Glasgow is usually called
> >>>>the Subway.
> >>>
> >>>In Chicago, you can board the "El" at a station that is above ground
> >>>or at a station that is below ground. It is still the El when it runs
> >>>underground.
> >>>
> >>>The El is operated by the Chicago Transit Authority, and is officially
> >>>named the 'L'.
> >>
> >>I'm certainly familiar with "El, "but I've never seen it called "L."
> >
> >Not only does the CTA use 'L', but they insist on the single ' on each
> >side of the L.
>
> Putin insists that Finland and Sweden shouldn't join NATO. Who wields
> more power? Who gets more attention? And which needs to face reality?

I guess the answers turn out to be Erdogan, Erdogan, and Erdogan,

Jan

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

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Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
From: gramma...@verizon.net (Peter T. Daniels)
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 by: Peter T. Daniels - Sun, 15 May 2022 20:14 UTC

On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 12:15:46 PM UTC-4, Quinn C wrote:
> * Peter T. Daniels:
> > On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 11:15:48 AM UTC-4, Quinn C wrote:
> >> * Peter T. Daniels:
> >>> On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 1:29:26 AM UTC-4, Hibou wrote:

> > [BrE/AmE]
> >>>> There are certainly a lot of differences in transport-transportation:
> >>>> lorry-truck, pavement-sidewalk, give-way-yield, underground-subway,
> >>>> subway-?,
> >>> We don't have those weird underground pervy toilets.
> >> More likely, just like anywhere else, you don't have them any more.
> > I doubt it. Where would they have been?
>
> How would I know? But an online search quickly yields:
>
> <https://www.richlandsource.com/area_history/the-famous-central-park-underground-restrooms/article_16b1c4d2-c503-11e5-890c-6360a850aa28.html>

Evidently someplace called Mansfield has a park called Central Park.

Mansfield seems to be in Richland County. There's an ad for a Miss
Ohio pageant, which might be a clue to its state. Or not.

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

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Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
From: gramma...@verizon.net (Peter T. Daniels)
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 by: Peter T. Daniels - Sun, 15 May 2022 20:15 UTC

On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 12:29:19 PM UTC-4, charles wrote:
> In article <of828h99kbr4tejqb...@4ax.com>,
> Ken Blake <K...@invalid.news.com> wrote:

> > You are correct. In AmE a "subway" is what BrE calls "tube" or
> > "underground."
>
> Unless the "subway" is a sort of sandwich

The Subway chain sells submarine sandwiches (so called, in some
places, because of the shape of the bread).

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

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Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
From: gramma...@verizon.net (Peter T. Daniels)
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 by: Peter T. Daniels - Sun, 15 May 2022 20:17 UTC

On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 1:25:20 PM UTC-4, Tony Cooper wrote:

> The Subway chain outlets (that I have been in in this area) all have
> wallpaper that depicts NYC subway scenes.

Long gone, alas. It was in the Formica tabletops, too.

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

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Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 14:23:47 -0600
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 by: lar3ryca - Sun, 15 May 2022 20:23 UTC

On 2022-05-15 12:55, Sam Plusnet wrote:
> On 15-May-22 17:58, lar3ryca wrote:
>
>> There is no 'subway sandwich'. There are "Subway sandwiches", because
>> it is the name of a place that sells sandwiches that happen to be
>> known as submarine sandwiches because of their shape.
>
> It's not the most convincing comparison.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarine_sandwich

Thick amidships, tapering at bow and stern.

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

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Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
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 by: Tony Cooper - Sun, 15 May 2022 20:50 UTC

On Sun, 15 May 2022 13:14:44 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
<grammatim@verizon.net> wrote:

>On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 12:15:46 PM UTC-4, Quinn C wrote:
>> * Peter T. Daniels:
>> > On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 11:15:48 AM UTC-4, Quinn C wrote:
>> >> * Peter T. Daniels:
>> >>> On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 1:29:26 AM UTC-4, Hibou wrote:
>
>> > [BrE/AmE]
>> >>>> There are certainly a lot of differences in transport-transportation:
>> >>>> lorry-truck, pavement-sidewalk, give-way-yield, underground-subway,
>> >>>> subway-?,
>> >>> We don't have those weird underground pervy toilets.
>> >> More likely, just like anywhere else, you don't have them any more.
>> > I doubt it. Where would they have been?
>>
>> How would I know? But an online search quickly yields:
>>
>> <https://www.richlandsource.com/area_history/the-famous-central-park-underground-restrooms/article_16b1c4d2-c503-11e5-890c-6360a850aa28.html>
>
>Evidently someplace called Mansfield has a park called Central Park.
>
>Mansfield seems to be in Richland County. There's an ad for a Miss
>Ohio pageant, which might be a clue to its state. Or not.

You didn't read the entire page if you need a clue. There's a photo
of newspaper clipping with the headline "Hidden Camera Traps Mansfield
Sex Deviates" and the location is revealed as Mansfield, Ohio.

"The Shawshank Redemption" was filmed in Mansfield and at the nearby
Ohio State Reformatory.


--

Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida

I read and post to this group as a form of entertainment.

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

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Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 17:08:40 -0400
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 by: Tony Cooper - Sun, 15 May 2022 21:08 UTC

On Sun, 15 May 2022 20:02:04 +0100, Paul Wolff
<bounceme@thiswontwork.wolff.co.uk> wrote:

>On Sun, 15 May 2022, at 08:55:00, Ken Blake posted:
>>On Sun, 15 May 2022 20:25:01 +1000, Peter Moylan
>>>On 15/05/22 18:17, Hibou wrote:
>>>> Le 15/05/2022 à 07:10, Peter Moylan a écrit :
>>>>> On 15/05/22 15:29, Hibou wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There are certainly a lot of differences in
>>>>>> transport-transportation: lorry-truck, pavement-sidewalk,
>>>>>> give-way-yield, underground-subway, subway-?
>>>>>
>>>>> Underpass, I think. Or possibly tunnel.
>>>>
>>>> Usage is a bit fluid here in GB. In general, I would associate a
>>>> subway with pedestrians and an underpass with vehicles.
>>>
>>>So would I, but I thought you were looking for the AmE term. As far as I
>>>know a pedestrian underpass is not called a subway in the US.
>>
>>You are correct. In AmE a "subway" is what BrE calls "tube" or
>>"underground."
>
>That is why my wife and I didn't get lunch in Anaheim, a suburb of Los
>Angeles, after a business meeting. We were told we could get it at a
>subway, which was [in a given direction]. We couldn't find the subway.
>In the end, we gave up, and found a fast sandwich place instead.

That should be an entry into one of those books that feature Funny
Tourist Experiences.

--

Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida

I read and post to this group as a form of entertainment.

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

<tKggK.518773$F_q1.181304@fx01.ams1>

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 by: Sam Plusnet - Mon, 16 May 2022 00:17 UTC

On 15-May-22 21:23, lar3ryca wrote:
> On 2022-05-15 12:55, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>> On 15-May-22 17:58, lar3ryca wrote:
>>
>>> There is no 'subway sandwich'. There are "Subway sandwiches", because
>>> it is the name of a place that sells sandwiches that happen to be
>>> known as submarine sandwiches because of their shape.
>>
>> It's not the most convincing comparison.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarine_sandwich
>
> Thick amidships, tapering at bow and stern.
>
I think it lacks many important features.

(Trying hard to avoid remarks about not containing any seamen.)

--
Sam Plusnet

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

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Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
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 by: Quinn C - Mon, 16 May 2022 00:18 UTC

* Peter T. Daniels:

> On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 12:15:46 PM UTC-4, Quinn C wrote:
>> * Peter T. Daniels:
>>> On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 11:15:48 AM UTC-4, Quinn C wrote:
>>>> * Peter T. Daniels:
>>>>> On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 1:29:26 AM UTC-4, Hibou wrote:
>
>>> [BrE/AmE]
>>>>>> There are certainly a lot of differences in transport-transportation:
>>>>>> lorry-truck, pavement-sidewalk, give-way-yield, underground-subway,
>>>>>> subway-?,
>>>>> We don't have those weird underground pervy toilets.
>>>> More likely, just like anywhere else, you don't have them any more.
>>> I doubt it. Where would they have been?
>>
>> How would I know? But an online search quickly yields:
>>
>> <https://www.richlandsource.com/area_history/the-famous-central-park-underground-restrooms/article_16b1c4d2-c503-11e5-890c-6360a850aa28.html>
>
> Evidently someplace called Mansfield has a park called Central Park.
>
> Mansfield seems to be in Richland County. There's an ad for a Miss
> Ohio pageant, which might be a clue to its state. Or not.

Fine. I wrongly thought I had a New York example after spending 30
seconds, but it was a US example, and thereby already contradicts your
statement. And, if one US city had them, it's likely others had them,
too. If New York had no room for it, then that's not a perviness issue.

--
Quinn C
My pronouns are they/them
(or other gender-neutral ones)

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