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Please remain calm, it's no use both of us being hysterical at the same time.


interests / alt.usage.english / Re: Close voters

SubjectAuthor
* Re: Close votersMack A. Damia
`* Re: Close votersPeter T. Daniels
 `* Re: Close votersMack A. Damia
  `* Re: Close votersPeter T. Daniels
   `* Re: Close votersspains...@gmail.com
    +- Re: Close votersMack A. Damia
    +* Re: Close votersPeter T. Daniels
    |`* Re: Close votersBebercito
    | +* Re: Close votersPeter T. Daniels
    | |+- Re: Close votersBebercito
    | |`- Re: Close votersCDB
    | +- Re: Close votersspains...@gmail.com
    | `- Re: Close votersMack A. Damia
    `- Re: Close votersbruce bowser

1
Re: Close voters

<g9728hplb5a1kgipnh72ha82akr8vjt9jm@4ax.com>

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From: drsteerf...@yahoo.com (Mack A. Damia)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Close voters
Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 08:34:02 -0700
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 by: Mack A. Damia - Sun, 15 May 2022 15:34 UTC

On Sun, 15 May 2022 00:52:01 -0700 (PDT), "hongy...@gmail.com"
<hongyi.zhao@gmail.com> wrote:

>See the following comments here [1]:
>
>```
>Close voters: according to the help center, "we welcome questions about…software that mathematicians use." –
>Jacob Manaker
>```
>
>What's the meaning of "Close voters" here?
>
>[1] https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/4450683/create-crystallographic-point-groups-in-gap-manually-from-scratch?noredirect=1#comment9320949_4450683

What is closing?

Closing is a democratic voting process where the community identifies
questions that duplicate existing content, are unreasonable to answer
in their current state, or do not belong on the site.

When should I vote to close a question?

https://stackoverflow.com/help/privileges/close-questions

Re: Close voters

<35848b0c-f584-4f94-a42d-a2a5963374b1n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: Close voters
From: gramma...@verizon.net (Peter T. Daniels)
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 by: Peter T. Daniels - Sun, 15 May 2022 15:59 UTC

On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 11:34:07 AM UTC-4, Mack A. Damia wrote:
> On Sun, 15 May 2022 00:52:01 -0700 (PDT), "hongy...@gmail.com"
> <hongy...@gmail.com> wrote:

> >See the following comments here [1]:
> >```
> >Close voters: according to the help center, "we welcome questions about…software that mathematicians use." –
> >Jacob Manaker
> >```
> >What's the meaning of "Close voters" here?
> >
> >[1] https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/4450683/create-crystallographic-point-groups-in-gap-manually-from-scratch?noredirect=1#comment9320949_4450683
> What is closing?
>
> Closing is a democratic voting process where the community identifies
> questions that duplicate existing content, are unreasonable to answer
> in their current state, or do not belong on the site.
>
> When should I vote to close a question?
>
> https://stackoverflow.com/help/privileges/close-questions

How does parliamentary procedure have anything to do with the
uninterpretable phrase HY is asking about?

Re: Close voters

<eba28h95ccelscmet0pu43vhvnk9t3e8kt@4ax.com>

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From: drsteerf...@yahoo.com (Mack A. Damia)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Close voters
Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 09:29:42 -0700
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 by: Mack A. Damia - Sun, 15 May 2022 16:29 UTC

On Sun, 15 May 2022 08:59:34 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
<grammatim@verizon.net> wrote:

>On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 11:34:07 AM UTC-4, Mack A. Damia wrote:
>> On Sun, 15 May 2022 00:52:01 -0700 (PDT), "hongy...@gmail.com"
>> <hongy...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> >See the following comments here [1]:
>> >```
>> >Close voters: according to the help center, "we welcome questions about…software that mathematicians use." –
>> >Jacob Manaker
>> >```
>> >What's the meaning of "Close voters" here?
>> >
>> >[1] https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/4450683/create-crystallographic-point-groups-in-gap-manually-from-scratch?noredirect=1#comment9320949_4450683
>> What is closing?
>>
>> Closing is a democratic voting process where the community identifies
>> questions that duplicate existing content, are unreasonable to answer
>> in their current state, or do not belong on the site.
>>
>> When should I vote to close a question?
>>
>> https://stackoverflow.com/help/privileges/close-questions
>
>How does parliamentary procedure have anything to do with the
>uninterpretable phrase HY is asking about?

If you had a Ph.D, you would know the answer. It is written in my
previous post. If "closing" is a democratic voting process, then
"close voters" are the ones who vote to close. DUH?

Re: Close voters

<425d8958-858b-483a-a6d4-408e22c1c978n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: Close voters
From: gramma...@verizon.net (Peter T. Daniels)
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 by: Peter T. Daniels - Sun, 15 May 2022 19:58 UTC

On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 12:29:48 PM UTC-4, Mack A. Damia wrote:
> On Sun, 15 May 2022 08:59:34 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
> <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
> >On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 11:34:07 AM UTC-4, Mack A. Damia wrote:
> >> On Sun, 15 May 2022 00:52:01 -0700 (PDT), "hongy...@gmail.com"
> >> <hongy...@gmail.com> wrote:

> >> >See the following comments here [1]:
> >> >```
> >> >Close voters: according to the help center, "we welcome questions about…software that mathematicians use." –
> >> >Jacob Manaker
> >> >```
> >> >What's the meaning of "Close voters" here?
> >> >[1] https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/4450683/create-crystallographic-point-groups-in-gap-manually-from-scratch?noredirect=1#comment9320949_4450683
> >> What is closing?
> >> Closing is a democratic voting process where the community identifies
> >> questions that duplicate existing content, are unreasonable to answer
> >> in their current state, or do not belong on the site.
> >> When should I vote to close a question?
> >> https://stackoverflow.com/help/privileges/close-questions
> >How does parliamentary procedure have anything to do with the
> >uninterpretable phrase HY is asking about?
>
> If you had a Ph.D, you would know the answer. It is written in my
> previous post. If "closing" is a democratic voting process, then
> "close voters" are the ones who vote to close. DUH?

What does "a democratic voting process" have to do with queries about
"software that mathematicians use"?

Re: Close voters

<5af4a19c-4b8c-48d6-bc36-a4fc9e22853cn@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: Close voters
From: spainsha...@gmail.com (spains...@gmail.com)
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 by: spains...@gmail.com - Sun, 15 May 2022 21:09 UTC

On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 8:58:56 PM UTC+1, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 12:29:48 PM UTC-4, Mack A. Damia wrote:
> > On Sun, 15 May 2022 08:59:34 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
> > <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
> > >On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 11:34:07 AM UTC-4, Mack A. Damia wrote:
> > >> On Sun, 15 May 2022 00:52:01 -0700 (PDT), "hongy...@gmail.com"
> > >> <hongy...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > >> >See the following comments here [1]:
> > >> >```
> > >> >Close voters: according to the help center, "we welcome questions about…software that mathematicians use." –
> > >> >Jacob Manaker
> > >> >```
> > >> >What's the meaning of "Close voters" here?
> > >> >[1] https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/4450683/create-crystallographic-point-groups-in-gap-manually-from-scratch?noredirect=1#comment9320949_4450683
> > >> What is closing?
> > >> Closing is a democratic voting process where the community identifies
> > >> questions that duplicate existing content, are unreasonable to answer
> > >> in their current state, or do not belong on the site.
> > >> When should I vote to close a question?
> > >> https://stackoverflow.com/help/privileges/close-questions
> > >How does parliamentary procedure have anything to do with the
> > >uninterpretable phrase HY is asking about?
> >
> > If you had a Ph.D, you would know the answer. It is written in my
> > previous post. If "closing" is a democratic voting process, then
> > "close voters" are the ones who vote to close. DUH?
> What does "a democratic voting process" have to do with queries about
> "software that mathematicians use"?

"Democratic" means "abiding by the decision of the majority"?

Mack's answer is perfectly good, and you either haven't read it, or don't
understand it.

Re: Close voters

<mg038hhdupd03gu71h98vbetbokc2updd6@4ax.com>

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From: drsteerf...@yahoo.com (Mack A. Damia)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Close voters
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 by: Mack A. Damia - Sun, 15 May 2022 22:45 UTC

On Sun, 15 May 2022 14:09:50 -0700 (PDT), "spains...@gmail.com"
<spainsharden@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 8:58:56 PM UTC+1, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>> On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 12:29:48 PM UTC-4, Mack A. Damia wrote:
>> > On Sun, 15 May 2022 08:59:34 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
>> > <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> > >On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 11:34:07 AM UTC-4, Mack A. Damia wrote:
>> > >> On Sun, 15 May 2022 00:52:01 -0700 (PDT), "hongy...@gmail.com"
>> > >> <hongy...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > >> >See the following comments here [1]:
>> > >> >```
>> > >> >Close voters: according to the help center, "we welcome questions about…software that mathematicians use." –
>> > >> >Jacob Manaker
>> > >> >```
>> > >> >What's the meaning of "Close voters" here?
>> > >> >[1] https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/4450683/create-crystallographic-point-groups-in-gap-manually-from-scratch?noredirect=1#comment9320949_4450683
>> > >> What is closing?
>> > >> Closing is a democratic voting process where the community identifies
>> > >> questions that duplicate existing content, are unreasonable to answer
>> > >> in their current state, or do not belong on the site.
>> > >> When should I vote to close a question?
>> > >> https://stackoverflow.com/help/privileges/close-questions
>> > >How does parliamentary procedure have anything to do with the
>> > >uninterpretable phrase HY is asking about?
>> >
>> > If you had a Ph.D, you would know the answer. It is written in my
>> > previous post. If "closing" is a democratic voting process, then
>> > "close voters" are the ones who vote to close. DUH?
>> What does "a democratic voting process" have to do with queries about
>> "software that mathematicians use"?
>
>"Democratic" means "abiding by the decision of the majority"?
>
>Mack's answer is perfectly good, and you either haven't read it, or don't
>understand it.

Agree that the answer is obscure, but maybe this will help:

https://math.stackexchange.com/help/closed-questions

Re: Close voters

<55d39f9a-8af2-43cf-92bd-c458e62b4e95n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: Close voters
From: gramma...@verizon.net (Peter T. Daniels)
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 by: Peter T. Daniels - Mon, 16 May 2022 13:02 UTC

On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 5:09:53 PM UTC-4, spains...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 8:58:56 PM UTC+1, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 12:29:48 PM UTC-4, Mack A. Damia wrote:
> > > On Sun, 15 May 2022 08:59:34 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
> > > <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
> > > >On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 11:34:07 AM UTC-4, Mack A. Damia wrote:
> > > >> On Sun, 15 May 2022 00:52:01 -0700 (PDT), "hongy...@gmail.com"
> > > >> <hongy...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > >> >See the following comments here [1]:
> > > >> >```
> > > >> >Close voters: according to the help center, "we welcome questions about…software that mathematicians use." –
> > > >> >Jacob Manaker
> > > >> >```
> > > >> >What's the meaning of "Close voters" here?
> > > >> >[1] https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/4450683/create-crystallographic-point-groups-in-gap-manually-from-scratch?noredirect=1#comment9320949_4450683
> > > >> What is closing?
> > > >> Closing is a democratic voting process where the community identifies
> > > >> questions that duplicate existing content, are unreasonable to answer
> > > >> in their current state, or do not belong on the site.
> > > >> When should I vote to close a question?
> > > >> https://stackoverflow.com/help/privileges/close-questions
> > > >How does parliamentary procedure have anything to do with the
> > > >uninterpretable phrase HY is asking about?
> > >
> > > If you had a Ph.D, you would know the answer. It is written in my
> > > previous post. If "closing" is a democratic voting process, then
> > > "close voters" are the ones who vote to close. DUH?
> > What does "a democratic voting process" have to do with queries about
> > "software that mathematicians use"?
> "Democratic" means "abiding by the decision of the majority"?
>
> Mack's answer is perfectly good, and you either haven't read it, or don't
> understand it.

Of course it's "perfectly good." But it has nothing whatsoever to do
with "Close voters:" in the sentence asked about. The colon shows
that (whatever it was supposed to refer to), the phrase is a vocative
-- addressing "close voters" and offering them information.

Incidentally he's wrong about "close vote" referring to ending discussion.
In the Senate Rules (which go all the way back to Thomas Jefferson),
that's a "cloture vote," and in Robert's Rules of Order (which generally
govern US parliamentary procedure, and ultimately derived from the
Senate rules), it's called "calling the question."

Maybe he's describing a term in British procedure.

Re: Close voters

<25989146-9902-4e26-b59e-ed8e21bc7307n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: Close voters
From: beberc...@aol.com (Bebercito)
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 by: Bebercito - Mon, 16 May 2022 14:27 UTC

Le lundi 16 mai 2022 à 15:02:56 UTC+2, Peter T. Daniels a écrit :
> On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 5:09:53 PM UTC-4, spains...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 8:58:56 PM UTC+1, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > > On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 12:29:48 PM UTC-4, Mack A. Damia wrote:
> > > > On Sun, 15 May 2022 08:59:34 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
> > > > <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
> > > > >On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 11:34:07 AM UTC-4, Mack A. Damia wrote:
> > > > >> On Sun, 15 May 2022 00:52:01 -0700 (PDT), "hongy...@gmail.com"
> > > > >> <hongy...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > >> >See the following comments here [1]:
> > > > >> >```
> > > > >> >Close voters: according to the help center, "we welcome questions about…software that mathematicians use." –
> > > > >> >Jacob Manaker
> > > > >> >```
> > > > >> >What's the meaning of "Close voters" here?
> > > > >> >[1] https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/4450683/create-crystallographic-point-groups-in-gap-manually-from-scratch?noredirect=1#comment9320949_4450683
> > > > >> What is closing?
> > > > >> Closing is a democratic voting process where the community identifies
> > > > >> questions that duplicate existing content, are unreasonable to answer
> > > > >> in their current state, or do not belong on the site.
> > > > >> When should I vote to close a question?
> > > > >> https://stackoverflow.com/help/privileges/close-questions
> > > > >How does parliamentary procedure have anything to do with the
> > > > >uninterpretable phrase HY is asking about?
> > > >
> > > > If you had a Ph.D, you would know the answer. It is written in my
> > > > previous post. If "closing" is a democratic voting process, then
> > > > "close voters" are the ones who vote to close. DUH?
> > > What does "a democratic voting process" have to do with queries about
> > > "software that mathematicians use"?
> > "Democratic" means "abiding by the decision of the majority"?
> >
> > Mack's answer is perfectly good, and you either haven't read it, or don't
> > understand it.
> Of course it's "perfectly good." But it has nothing whatsoever to do
> with "Close voters:" in the sentence asked about. The colon shows
> that (whatever it was supposed to refer to), the phrase is a vocative
> -- addressing "close voters" and offering them information.

So what? On the contrary, this information is addressed to those
who have voted (or are tempted?) to close the question so that,
precisely, they can revise their judgment: it explains that a certain
type of question is welcome (and therefore maybe shoudn't be
closed).

>
> Incidentally he's wrong about "close vote" referring to ending discussion..
> In the Senate Rules (which go all the way back to Thomas Jefferson),
> that's a "cloture vote," and in Robert's Rules of Order (which generally
> govern US parliamentary procedure, and ultimately derived from the
> Senate rules), it's called "calling the question."

No, that's different. "Calling the question" is about asking for a vote
to determine whether the debate should continue or not - not about
closing the debate. OTOH, a "close vote" is one requiring that the
question (or debate) be closed. See e.g.

---
But “calling the question” when done properly should be a rare occurrence.
If debate has dragged on longer than you feel is really warranted, you can
“call the question,” at which time the chair has to immediately ask those
assembled to vote to determine whether or not debate should be cut off
or continue. The motion to call the question is itself not debatable. If
two-thirds of those voting agree that the discussion should have died
some time ago, they will support the call. Then, and only then, will the vote
be taken on the question itself.

https://brians.wsu.edu/2016/05/31/call-the-question/
---
>
> Maybe he's describing a term in British procedure.

No, just using the ordinary sense of "close".

Re: Close voters

<46b3b857-af2b-4691-beea-bf3d0145c5f1n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: Close voters
From: gramma...@verizon.net (Peter T. Daniels)
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 by: Peter T. Daniels - Mon, 16 May 2022 15:11 UTC

On Monday, May 16, 2022 at 10:27:13 AM UTC-4, Bebercito wrote:
> Le lundi 16 mai 2022 à 15:02:56 UTC+2, Peter T. Daniels a écrit :
> > On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 5:09:53 PM UTC-4, spains...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 8:58:56 PM UTC+1, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > > > On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 12:29:48 PM UTC-4, Mack A. Damia wrote:
> > > > > On Sun, 15 May 2022 08:59:34 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
> > > > > <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
> > > > > >On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 11:34:07 AM UTC-4, Mack A. Damia wrote:
> > > > > >> On Sun, 15 May 2022 00:52:01 -0700 (PDT), "hongy...@gmail.com"
> > > > > >> <hongy...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > >> >See the following comments here [1]:
> > > > > >> >```
> > > > > >> >Close voters: according to the help center, "we welcome questions about…software that mathematicians use." –
> > > > > >> >Jacob Manaker
> > > > > >> >```
> > > > > >> >What's the meaning of "Close voters" here?
> > > > > >> >[1] https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/4450683/create-crystallographic-point-groups-in-gap-manually-from-scratch?noredirect=1#comment9320949_4450683
> > > > > >> What is closing?
> > > > > >> Closing is a democratic voting process where the community identifies
> > > > > >> questions that duplicate existing content, are unreasonable to answer
> > > > > >> in their current state, or do not belong on the site.
> > > > > >> When should I vote to close a question?
> > > > > >> https://stackoverflow.com/help/privileges/close-questions
> > > > > >How does parliamentary procedure have anything to do with the
> > > > > >uninterpretable phrase HY is asking about?
> > > > >
> > > > > If you had a Ph.D, you would know the answer. It is written in my
> > > > > previous post. If "closing" is a democratic voting process, then
> > > > > "close voters" are the ones who vote to close. DUH?
> > > > What does "a democratic voting process" have to do with queries about
> > > > "software that mathematicians use"?
> > > "Democratic" means "abiding by the decision of the majority"?
> > >
> > > Mack's answer is perfectly good, and you either haven't read it, or don't
> > > understand it.
> > Of course it's "perfectly good." But it has nothing whatsoever to do
> > with "Close voters:" in the sentence asked about. The colon shows
> > that (whatever it was supposed to refer to), the phrase is a vocative
> > -- addressing "close voters" and offering them information.
> So what? On the contrary, this information is addressed to those
> who have voted (or are tempted?) to close the question so that,
> precisely, they can revise their judgment: it explains that a certain
> type of question is welcome (and therefore maybe shoudn't be
> closed).
> >
> > Incidentally he's wrong about "close vote" referring to ending discussion.
> > In the Senate Rules (which go all the way back to Thomas Jefferson),
> > that's a "cloture vote," and in Robert's Rules of Order (which generally
> > govern US parliamentary procedure, and ultimately derived from the
> > Senate rules), it's called "calling the question."
> No, that's different. "Calling the question" is about asking for a vote
> to determine whether the debate should continue or not - not about
> closing the debate. OTOH, a "close vote" is one requiring that the
> question (or debate) be closed. See e.g.
>
> ---
> But “calling the question” when done properly should be a rare occurrence.
> If debate has dragged on longer than you feel is really warranted, you can
> “call the question,” at which time the chair has to immediately ask those
> assembled to vote to determine whether or not debate should be cut off
> or continue. The motion to call the question is itself not debatable. If
> two-thirds of those voting agree that the discussion should have died
> some time ago, they will support the call. Then, and only then, will the vote
> be taken on the question itself.

What do you imagine is the difference?

> https://brians.wsu.edu/2016/05/31/call-the-question/
> ---
> >
> > Maybe he's describing a term in British procedure.
> No, just using the ordinary sense of "close".

If that were true, then parliamentary procedure would not come into
it at all.

Re: Close voters

<e100fffd-9a6c-4ef4-8057-36dd4f9b296dn@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: Close voters
From: spainsha...@gmail.com (spains...@gmail.com)
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 by: spains...@gmail.com - Mon, 16 May 2022 15:17 UTC

On Monday, May 16, 2022 at 3:27:13 PM UTC+1, Bebercito wrote:
> Le lundi 16 mai 2022 à 15:02:56 UTC+2, Peter T. Daniels a écrit :
> > On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 5:09:53 PM UTC-4, spains...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 8:58:56 PM UTC+1, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > > > On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 12:29:48 PM UTC-4, Mack A. Damia wrote:
> > > > > On Sun, 15 May 2022 08:59:34 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
> > > > > <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
> > > > > >On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 11:34:07 AM UTC-4, Mack A. Damia wrote:
> > > > > >> On Sun, 15 May 2022 00:52:01 -0700 (PDT), "hongy...@gmail.com"
> > > > > >> <hongy...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > >> >See the following comments here [1]:
> > > > > >> >```
> > > > > >> >Close voters: according to the help center, "we welcome questions about…software that mathematicians use." –
> > > > > >> >Jacob Manaker
> > > > > >> >```
> > > > > >> >What's the meaning of "Close voters" here?
> > > > > >> >[1] https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/4450683/create-crystallographic-point-groups-in-gap-manually-from-scratch?noredirect=1#comment9320949_4450683
> > > > > >> What is closing?
> > > > > >> Closing is a democratic voting process where the community identifies
> > > > > >> questions that duplicate existing content, are unreasonable to answer
> > > > > >> in their current state, or do not belong on the site.
> > > > > >> When should I vote to close a question?
> > > > > >> https://stackoverflow.com/help/privileges/close-questions
> > > > > >How does parliamentary procedure have anything to do with the
> > > > > >uninterpretable phrase HY is asking about?
> > > > >
> > > > > If you had a Ph.D, you would know the answer. It is written in my
> > > > > previous post. If "closing" is a democratic voting process, then
> > > > > "close voters" are the ones who vote to close. DUH?
> > > > What does "a democratic voting process" have to do with queries about
> > > > "software that mathematicians use"?
> > > "Democratic" means "abiding by the decision of the majority"?
> > >
> > > Mack's answer is perfectly good, and you either haven't read it, or don't
> > > understand it.
> > Of course it's "perfectly good." But it has nothing whatsoever to do
> > with "Close voters:" in the sentence asked about. The colon shows
> > that (whatever it was supposed to refer to), the phrase is a vocative
> > -- addressing "close voters" and offering them information.
> So what? On the contrary, this information is addressed to those
> who have voted (or are tempted?) to close the question so that,
> precisely, they can revise their judgment: it explains that a certain
> type of question is welcome (and therefore maybe shoudn't be
> closed).

Maybe PTD hasn't noticed that this is a private, moderated discussion
group?

"Mathematics Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for people
studying math at any level and professionals in related fields..."

The advice is coming from a member of that group - quoting the group
rules - and has nothing to do with any other governance.

Re: Close voters

<bmq48h5fg13mku0dmvp9pk7d0ohrk8ein0@4ax.com>

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Subject: Re: Close voters
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 by: Mack A. Damia - Mon, 16 May 2022 15:17 UTC

On Mon, 16 May 2022 07:27:11 -0700 (PDT), Bebercito
<bebercito@aol.com> wrote:

>Le lundi 16 mai 2022 à 15:02:56 UTC+2, Peter T. Daniels a écrit :
>> On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 5:09:53 PM UTC-4, spains...@gmail.com wrote:
>> > On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 8:58:56 PM UTC+1, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>> > > On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 12:29:48 PM UTC-4, Mack A. Damia wrote:
>> > > > On Sun, 15 May 2022 08:59:34 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
>> > > > <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> > > > >On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 11:34:07 AM UTC-4, Mack A. Damia wrote:
>> > > > >> On Sun, 15 May 2022 00:52:01 -0700 (PDT), "hongy...@gmail.com"
>> > > > >> <hongy...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > >> >See the following comments here [1]:
>> > > > >> >```
>> > > > >> >Close voters: according to the help center, "we welcome questions about…software that mathematicians use." –
>> > > > >> >Jacob Manaker
>> > > > >> >```
>> > > > >> >What's the meaning of "Close voters" here?
>> > > > >> >[1] https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/4450683/create-crystallographic-point-groups-in-gap-manually-from-scratch?noredirect=1#comment9320949_4450683
>> > > > >> What is closing?
>> > > > >> Closing is a democratic voting process where the community identifies
>> > > > >> questions that duplicate existing content, are unreasonable to answer
>> > > > >> in their current state, or do not belong on the site.
>> > > > >> When should I vote to close a question?
>> > > > >> https://stackoverflow.com/help/privileges/close-questions
>> > > > >How does parliamentary procedure have anything to do with the
>> > > > >uninterpretable phrase HY is asking about?
>> > > >
>> > > > If you had a Ph.D, you would know the answer. It is written in my
>> > > > previous post. If "closing" is a democratic voting process, then
>> > > > "close voters" are the ones who vote to close. DUH?
>> > > What does "a democratic voting process" have to do with queries about
>> > > "software that mathematicians use"?
>> > "Democratic" means "abiding by the decision of the majority"?
>> >
>> > Mack's answer is perfectly good, and you either haven't read it, or don't
>> > understand it.
>> Of course it's "perfectly good." But it has nothing whatsoever to do
>> with "Close voters:" in the sentence asked about. The colon shows
>> that (whatever it was supposed to refer to), the phrase is a vocative
>> -- addressing "close voters" and offering them information.
>
>So what? On the contrary, this information is addressed to those
>who have voted (or are tempted?) to close the question so that,
>precisely, they can revise their judgment: it explains that a certain
>type of question is welcome (and therefore maybe shoudn't be
>closed).
>
>>
>> Incidentally he's wrong about "close vote" referring to ending discussion.
>> In the Senate Rules (which go all the way back to Thomas Jefferson),
>> that's a "cloture vote," and in Robert's Rules of Order (which generally
>> govern US parliamentary procedure, and ultimately derived from the
>> Senate rules), it's called "calling the question."
>
>No, that's different. "Calling the question" is about asking for a vote
>to determine whether the debate should continue or not - not about
>closing the debate. OTOH, a "close vote" is one requiring that the
>question (or debate) be closed. See e.g.
>
>---
>But “calling the question” when done properly should be a rare occurrence.
>If debate has dragged on longer than you feel is really warranted, you can
>“call the question,” at which time the chair has to immediately ask those
>assembled to vote to determine whether or not debate should be cut off
>or continue. The motion to call the question is itself not debatable. If
>two-thirds of those voting agree that the discussion should have died
>some time ago, they will support the call. Then, and only then, will the vote
>be taken on the question itself.
>
>https://brians.wsu.edu/2016/05/31/call-the-question/
>---
>
>>
>> Maybe he's describing a term in British procedure.
>
>No, just using the ordinary sense of "close".

More information:

https://math.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/26227/should-close-votes-be-used-to-answer-questions/26232

Re: Close voters

<96072431-5f50-421f-8475-7c53e9f3e052n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: Close voters
From: beberc...@aol.com (Bebercito)
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 by: Bebercito - Mon, 16 May 2022 15:39 UTC

Le lundi 16 mai 2022 à 17:11:10 UTC+2, Peter T. Daniels a écrit :
> On Monday, May 16, 2022 at 10:27:13 AM UTC-4, Bebercito wrote:
> > Le lundi 16 mai 2022 à 15:02:56 UTC+2, Peter T. Daniels a écrit :
> > > On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 5:09:53 PM UTC-4, spains...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 8:58:56 PM UTC+1, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > > > > On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 12:29:48 PM UTC-4, Mack A. Damia wrote:
> > > > > > On Sun, 15 May 2022 08:59:34 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
> > > > > > <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
> > > > > > >On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 11:34:07 AM UTC-4, Mack A. Damia wrote:
> > > > > > >> On Sun, 15 May 2022 00:52:01 -0700 (PDT), "hongy...@gmail.com"
> > > > > > >> <hongy...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > >> >See the following comments here [1]:
> > > > > > >> >```
> > > > > > >> >Close voters: according to the help center, "we welcome questions about…software that mathematicians use." –
> > > > > > >> >Jacob Manaker
> > > > > > >> >```
> > > > > > >> >What's the meaning of "Close voters" here?
> > > > > > >> >[1] https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/4450683/create-crystallographic-point-groups-in-gap-manually-from-scratch?noredirect=1#comment9320949_4450683
> > > > > > >> What is closing?
> > > > > > >> Closing is a democratic voting process where the community identifies
> > > > > > >> questions that duplicate existing content, are unreasonable to answer
> > > > > > >> in their current state, or do not belong on the site.
> > > > > > >> When should I vote to close a question?
> > > > > > >> https://stackoverflow.com/help/privileges/close-questions
> > > > > > >How does parliamentary procedure have anything to do with the
> > > > > > >uninterpretable phrase HY is asking about?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If you had a Ph.D, you would know the answer. It is written in my
> > > > > > previous post. If "closing" is a democratic voting process, then
> > > > > > "close voters" are the ones who vote to close. DUH?
> > > > > What does "a democratic voting process" have to do with queries about
> > > > > "software that mathematicians use"?
> > > > "Democratic" means "abiding by the decision of the majority"?
> > > >
> > > > Mack's answer is perfectly good, and you either haven't read it, or don't
> > > > understand it.
> > > Of course it's "perfectly good." But it has nothing whatsoever to do
> > > with "Close voters:" in the sentence asked about. The colon shows
> > > that (whatever it was supposed to refer to), the phrase is a vocative
> > > -- addressing "close voters" and offering them information.
> > So what? On the contrary, this information is addressed to those
> > who have voted (or are tempted?) to close the question so that,
> > precisely, they can revise their judgment: it explains that a certain
> > type of question is welcome (and therefore maybe shoudn't be
> > closed).
> > >
> > > Incidentally he's wrong about "close vote" referring to ending discussion.
> > > In the Senate Rules (which go all the way back to Thomas Jefferson),
> > > that's a "cloture vote," and in Robert's Rules of Order (which generally
> > > govern US parliamentary procedure, and ultimately derived from the
> > > Senate rules), it's called "calling the question."
> > No, that's different. "Calling the question" is about asking for a vote
> > to determine whether the debate should continue or not - not about
> > closing the debate. OTOH, a "close vote" is one requiring that the
> > question (or debate) be closed. See e.g.
> >
> > ---
> > But “calling the question” when done properly should be a rare occurrence.
> > If debate has dragged on longer than you feel is really warranted, you can
> > “call the question,” at which time the chair has to immediately ask those
> > assembled to vote to determine whether or not debate should be cut off
> > or continue. The motion to call the question is itself not debatable. If
> > two-thirds of those voting agree that the discussion should have died
> > some time ago, they will support the call. Then, and only then, will the vote
> > be taken on the question itself.
> What do you imagine is the difference?

Exactly what the above says, i.e.

a "close vote" = a vote that says "close the question"
"call the question" = ask for a vote to determine whether the
question must stop being debated by being immediately voted
on (that's a _second_ vote), or continue to be debated.

> > https://brians.wsu.edu/2016/05/31/call-the-question/
> > ---
> > >
> > > Maybe he's describing a term in British procedure.
> > No, just using the ordinary sense of "close".
> If that were true, then parliamentary procedure would not come into
> it at all.

It doesn't, only you for some reason mixed it in.

Re: Close voters

<f8c282d7-5c5a-4ace-a376-66c8b5ead7d5n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: Close voters
From: bruce2bo...@gmail.com (bruce bowser)
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 by: bruce bowser - Mon, 16 May 2022 19:16 UTC

On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 5:09:53 PM UTC-4, spains...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 8:58:56 PM UTC+1, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 12:29:48 PM UTC-4, Mack A. Damia wrote:
> > > On Sun, 15 May 2022 08:59:34 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
> > > <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
> > > >On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 11:34:07 AM UTC-4, Mack A. Damia wrote:
> > > >> On Sun, 15 May 2022 00:52:01 -0700 (PDT), "hongy...@gmail.com"
> > > >> <hongy...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > >> >See the following comments here [1]:
> > > >> >```
> > > >> >Close voters: according to the help center, "we welcome questions about…software that mathematicians use." –
> > > >> >Jacob Manaker
> > > >> >```
> > > >> >What's the meaning of "Close voters" here?
> > > >> >[1] https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/4450683/create-crystallographic-point-groups-in-gap-manually-from-scratch?noredirect=1#comment9320949_4450683
> > > >> What is closing?
> > > >> Closing is a democratic voting process where the community identifies
> > > >> questions that duplicate existing content, are unreasonable to answer
> > > >> in their current state, or do not belong on the site.
> > > >> When should I vote to close a question?
> > > >> https://stackoverflow.com/help/privileges/close-questions
> > > >How does parliamentary procedure have anything to do with the
> > > >uninterpretable phrase HY is asking about?
> > >
> > > If you had a Ph.D, you would know the answer. It is written in my
> > > previous post. If "closing" is a democratic voting process, then
> > > "close voters" are the ones who vote to close. DUH?
> > What does "a democratic voting process" have to do with queries about
> > "software that mathematicians use"?
>
> "Democratic" means "abiding by the decision of the majority"?

No, just "decision of the majority".

Re: Close voters

<t60074$1366$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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Subject: Re: Close voters
Date: Tue, 17 May 2022 07:16:48 -0400
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 by: CDB - Tue, 17 May 2022 11:16 UTC

On 5/16/2022 11:11 AM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> Bebercito wrote:
>> Peter T. Daniels a écrit :
>>> spains...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>>>>> Mack A. Damia wrote:
>>>>>> "Peter T. Daniels" <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> Mack A. Damia wrote:
>>>>>>>> "hongy...@gmail.com" <hongy...@gmail.com> wrote:

>>>>>>>>> See the following comments here [1]: ``` Close
>>>>>>>>> voters: according to the help center, "we welcome
>>>>>>>>> questions about…software that mathematicians use." –
>>>>>>>>> Jacob Manaker ``` What's the meaning of "Close
>>>>>>>>> voters" here? [1]
>>>>>>>>> https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/4450683/create-crystallographic-point-groups-in-gap-manually-from-scratch?noredirect=1#comment9320949_4450683
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
What is closing?
>>>>>>>> Closing is a democratic voting process where the
>>>>>>>> community identifies questions that duplicate existing
>>>>>>>> content, are unreasonable to answer in their current
>>>>>>>> state, or do not belong on the site. When should I vote
>>>>>>>> to close a question?
>>>>>>>> https://stackoverflow.com/help/privileges/close-questions
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
How does parliamentary procedure have anything to do with the
>>>>>>> uninterpretable phrase HY is asking about?

>>>>>> If you had a Ph.D, you would know the answer. It is written
>>>>>> in my previous post. If "closing" is a democratic voting
>>>>>> process, then "close voters" are the ones who vote to
>>>>>> close. DUH?
>>>>> What does "a democratic voting process" have to do with
>>>>> queries about "software that mathematicians use"?
>>>> "Democratic" means "abiding by the decision of the majority"?

>>>> Mack's answer is perfectly good, and you either haven't read
>>>> it, or don't understand it.
>>> Of course it's "perfectly good." But it has nothing whatsoever to
>>> do with "Close voters:" in the sentence asked about. The colon
>>> shows that (whatever it was supposed to refer to), the phrase is
>>> a vocative -- addressing "close voters" and offering them
>>> information.
>> So what? On the contrary, this information is addressed to those
>> who have voted (or are tempted?) to close the question so that,
>> precisely, they can revise their judgment: it explains that a
>> certain type of question is welcome (and therefore maybe shoudn't
>> be closed).

>>> Incidentally he's wrong about "close vote" referring to ending
>>> discussion. In the Senate Rules (which go all the way back to
>>> Thomas Jefferson), that's a "cloture vote," and in Robert's Rules
>>> of Order (which generally govern US parliamentary procedure, and
>>> ultimately derived from the Senate rules), it's called "calling
>>> the question."
>> No, that's different. "Calling the question" is about asking for a
>> vote to determine whether the debate should continue or not - not
>> about closing the debate. OTOH, a "close vote" is one requiring
>> that the question (or debate) be closed. See e.g.

>> --- But “calling the question” when done properly should be a rare
>> occurrence. If debate has dragged on longer than you feel is really
>> warranted, you can “call the question,” at which time the chair has
>> to immediately ask those assembled to vote to determine whether or
>> not debate should be cut off or continue. The motion to call the
>> question is itself not debatable. If two-thirds of those voting
>> agree that the discussion should have died some time ago, they will
>> support the call. Then, and only then, will the vote be taken on
>> the question itself.

> What do you imagine is the difference?

>> https://brians.wsu.edu/2016/05/31/call-the-question/ ---

>>> Maybe he's describing a term in British procedure.
>> No, just using the ordinary sense of "close".
>
> If that were true, then parliamentary procedure would not come into
> it at all.

A relief for all concerned. I had a long-winded explanation of the
closure rule in the Canadian sydtem all ready to go out but, having
taken your point, will now disappear it with pleasure.

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