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interests / alt.usage.english / Re: Only later did I learn that by neglecting this kind of dehydration, you risk kidney failure and death.

SubjectAuthor
* Only later did I learn that by neglecting this kind of dehydration,hongy...@gmail.com
+* Re: Only later did I learn that by neglecting this kind of dehydration, you riAthel Cornish-Bowden
|`* Re: Only later did I learn that by neglecting this kind ofhongy...@gmail.com
| `* Re: Only later did I learn that by neglecting this kind of dehydration, you riAthel Cornish-Bowden
|  +- Re: Only later did I learn that by neglecting this kind ofPeter Moylan
|  +- Re: Only later did I learn that by neglecting this kind ofhongy...@gmail.com
|  `* Re: Only later did I learn that by neglecting this kind ofSuzie Fitzgerald
|   +* Re: Only later did I learn that by neglecting this kind ofspains...@gmail.com
|   |`- Re: Only later did I learn that by neglecting this kind of dehydration, you riskMadhu
|   `- Re: Only later did I learn that by neglecting this kind ofCDB
+- Re: Only later did I learn that by neglecting this kind of dehydration, you riJanet
`- Re: Only later did I learn that by neglecting this kind of dehydration, you riskPamela

1
Only later did I learn that by neglecting this kind of dehydration, you risk kidney failure and death.

<0994c18e-ab3e-4347-a4a5-ad8e312ab78en@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Only later did I learn that by neglecting this kind of dehydration,
you risk kidney failure and death.
From: hongyi.z...@gmail.com (hongy...@gmail.com)
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 by: hongy...@gmail.com - Sun, 15 May 2022 05:16 UTC

See this sentence:

Only later did I learn that by neglecting this kind of dehydration, you risk kidney failure and death.

Must I use "did" here?

Regards,
HZ

Re: Only later did I learn that by neglecting this kind of dehydration, you risk kidney failure and death.

<jebj9jF7aq4U1@mid.individual.net>

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From: acorn...@imm.cnrs.fr (Athel Cornish-Bowden)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Only later did I learn that by neglecting this kind of dehydration, you risk kidney failure and death.
Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 08:01:23 +0200
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 by: Athel Cornish-Bowden - Sun, 15 May 2022 06:01 UTC

On 2022-05-15 05:16:50 +0000, hongy...@gmail.com said:

> See this sentence:
>
> Only later did I learn that by neglecting this kind of dehydration, you
> risk kidney failure and death.
>
> Must I use "did" here?

Yes. What would you want to use instead? Maybe "I learned only later
that by ..." would be OK, but the first version is better.

--
Athel -- French and British, living mainly in England until 1987.

Re: Only later did I learn that by neglecting this kind of dehydration, you risk kidney failure and death.

<1f5284ce-51d5-4a84-a7ec-f439a09cc11cn@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: Only later did I learn that by neglecting this kind of
dehydration, you risk kidney failure and death.
From: hongyi.z...@gmail.com (hongy...@gmail.com)
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 by: hongy...@gmail.com - Sun, 15 May 2022 07:44 UTC

On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 2:01:28 PM UTC+8, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> On 2022-05-15 05:16:50 +0000, hongy...@gmail.com said:
>
> > See this sentence:
> >
> > Only later did I learn that by neglecting this kind of dehydration, you
> > risk kidney failure and death.
> >
> > Must I use "did" here?
> Yes. What would you want to use instead? Maybe "I learned only later
> that by ..." would be OK, but the first version is better.

Thank you for your comments. Is it necessary to use this form for all adverbial pre-emphasis?

HZ

> --
> Athel -- French and British, living mainly in England until 1987.

Re: Only later did I learn that by neglecting this kind of dehydration, you risk kidney failure and death.

<jec23jFa1glU1@mid.individual.net>

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From: acorn...@imm.cnrs.fr (Athel Cornish-Bowden)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Only later did I learn that by neglecting this kind of dehydration, you risk kidney failure and death.
Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 12:14:11 +0200
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 by: Athel Cornish-Bowden - Sun, 15 May 2022 10:14 UTC

On 2022-05-15 07:44:33 +0000, hongy...@gmail.com said:

> On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 2:01:28 PM UTC+8, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>> On 2022-05-15 05:16:50 +0000, hongy...@gmail.com said:
>>
>>> See this sentence:
>>>
>>> Only later did I learn that by neglecting this kind of dehydration, you
>>> risk kidney failure and death.
>>>
>>> Must I use "did" here?
>> Yes. What would you want to use instead? Maybe "I learned only later
>> that by ..." would be OK, but the first version is better.
>
> Thank you for your comments. Is it necessary to use this form for all
> adverbial pre-emphasis?
>
This question is too vague to be answered. But yes, if you want to
start the sentence with "Only later" then you need the "did". You
haven't answered my question of what you would want to use.

--
Athel -- French and British, living mainly in England until 1987.

Re: Only later did I learn that by neglecting this kind of dehydration, you risk kidney failure and death.

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From: pet...@pmoylan.org.invalid (Peter Moylan)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Only later did I learn that by neglecting this kind of
dehydration, you risk kidney failure and death.
Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 20:30:33 +1000
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 by: Peter Moylan - Sun, 15 May 2022 10:30 UTC

On 15/05/22 20:14, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> On 2022-05-15 07:44:33 +0000, hongy...@gmail.com said:
>> On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 2:01:28 PM UTC+8, Athel Cornish-Bowden
>> wrote:
>>> On 2022-05-15 05:16:50 +0000, hongy...@gmail.com said:
>>>
>>>> See this sentence:
>>>>
>>>> Only later did I learn that by neglecting this kind of
>>>> dehydration, you risk kidney failure and death.
>>>>
>>>> Must I use "did" here?
>>> Yes. What would you want to use instead? Maybe "I learned only
>>> later that by ..." would be OK, but the first version is better.
>>
>> Thank you for your comments. Is it necessary to use this form for
>> all adverbial pre-emphasis?
>>
> This question is too vague to be answered. But yes, if you want to
> start the sentence with "Only later" then you need the "did". You
> haven't answered my question of what you would want to use.

It's also possible to say "Only later would I learn ...". But that's a
different verb tense, which changes the viewpoint of the narration, in a
way that might make it incompatible with the surrounding sentences.

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

Re: Only later did I learn that by neglecting this kind of dehydration, you risk kidney failure and death.

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From: nob...@home.com (Janet)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Only later did I learn that by neglecting this kind of dehydration, you risk kidney failure and death.
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 by: Janet - Sun, 15 May 2022 11:37 UTC

In article <0994c18e-ab3e-4347-a4a5-ad8e312ab78en@googlegroups.com>,
hongyi.zhao@gmail.com says...
>
> See this sentence:
>
> Only later did I learn that by neglecting this kind of dehydration, you risk kidney failure and death.
>
> Must I use "did" here?

Yes.

Or simplify it:

"Later,I learned that by neglecting this kind of dehydration, you risk
kidney failure and death"

Janet

Re: Only later did I learn that by neglecting this kind of dehydration, you risk kidney failure and death.

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From: pamela.p...@gmail.com (Pamela)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Only later did I learn that by neglecting this kind of dehydration, you risk kidney failure and death.
Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 13:29:38 +0100
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 by: Pamela - Sun, 15 May 2022 12:29 UTC

On 06:16 15 May 2022, hongy...@gmail.com said:

> See this sentence:
>
> Only later did I learn that by neglecting this kind of dehydration,
> you risk kidney failure and death.
>
> Must I use "did" here?
>
> Regards,
> HZ

Out of interest, what kind of dehydration is that?

Re: Only later did I learn that by neglecting this kind of dehydration, you risk kidney failure and death.

<69b41d48-3dd0-4aae-b003-e67b53f0b7b9n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: Only later did I learn that by neglecting this kind of
dehydration, you risk kidney failure and death.
From: hongyi.z...@gmail.com (hongy...@gmail.com)
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 by: hongy...@gmail.com - Sun, 15 May 2022 13:34 UTC

On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 6:14:16 PM UTC+8, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> On 2022-05-15 07:44:33 +0000, hongy...@gmail.com said:
>
> > On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 2:01:28 PM UTC+8, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> >> On 2022-05-15 05:16:50 +0000, hongy...@gmail.com said:
> >>
> >>> See this sentence:
> >>>
> >>> Only later did I learn that by neglecting this kind of dehydration, you
> >>> risk kidney failure and death.
> >>>
> >>> Must I use "did" here?
> >> Yes. What would you want to use instead? Maybe "I learned only later
> >> that by ..." would be OK, but the first version is better.
> >
> > Thank you for your comments. Is it necessary to use this form for all
> > adverbial pre-emphasis?
> >
> This question is too vague to be answered. But yes, if you want to
> start the sentence with "Only later" then you need the "did". You
> haven't answered my question of what you would want to use.

Maybe the following as an alternative:

Only later, I learned that ...

HZ

Re: Only later did I learn that by neglecting this kind of dehydration, you risk kidney failure and death.

<9d160008-f037-450b-b88a-9684c388c125n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: Only later did I learn that by neglecting this kind of
dehydration, you risk kidney failure and death.
From: suziefit...@gmail.com (Suzie Fitzgerald)
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 by: Suzie Fitzgerald - Sun, 15 May 2022 18:05 UTC

On Sunday, 15 May 2022 at 11:14:16 UTC+1, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> On 2022-05-15 07:44:33 +0000, hongy...@gmail.com said:
>
> > On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 2:01:28 PM UTC+8, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> >> On 2022-05-15 05:16:50 +0000, hongy...@gmail.com said:
> >>
> >>> See this sentence:
> >>>
> >>> Only later did I learn that by neglecting this kind of dehydration, you
> >>> risk kidney failure and death.
> >>>
> >>> Must I use "did" here?
> >> Yes. What would you want to use instead? Maybe "I learned only later
> >> that by ..." would be OK, but the first version is better.
> >
> > Thank you for your comments. Is it necessary to use this form for all
> > adverbial pre-emphasis?
> >
> This question is too vague to be answered. But yes, if you want to
> start the sentence with "Only later" then you need the "did". You
> haven't answered my question of what you would want to use.
> --
> Athel -- French and British, living mainly in England until 1987.

I think you are all (all replies, not just Athel) missing the point here, and failing to give Hongy the most helpful answer. Apart from in questions, subject-verb inversion is rare in English, but it is required after certain vaguely negative adverbials:

"Not only did I do something, I also did something else"
"Never have I heard anything so stupid"
"Hardly ever will I respond to posts at AUE, for fear of being abused and insulted"

Moreover, when the verb is in the simple present or past, you need to use what used to be called the emphatic form, but which modern EFL now apparently refers to as "do-support", i.e. use the appropriate part of the verb "to do" as an auxiliary.

"Only later did I learn ...." is correct.
*"Only later I did learn" is wrong.
*"Only later learned I ....." is even more wrong.

Thank you and goodnight.

Re: Only later did I learn that by neglecting this kind of dehydration, you risk kidney failure and death.

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Subject: Re: Only later did I learn that by neglecting this kind of
dehydration, you risk kidney failure and death.
From: spainsha...@gmail.com (spains...@gmail.com)
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 by: spains...@gmail.com - Sun, 15 May 2022 21:19 UTC

On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 7:05:29 PM UTC+1, Suzie Fitzgerald wrote:
> On Sunday, 15 May 2022 at 11:14:16 UTC+1, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> > On 2022-05-15 07:44:33 +0000, hongy...@gmail.com said:
> >
> > > On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 2:01:28 PM UTC+8, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> > >> On 2022-05-15 05:16:50 +0000, hongy...@gmail.com said:
> > >>
> > >>> See this sentence:
> > >>>
> > >>> Only later did I learn that by neglecting this kind of dehydration, you
> > >>> risk kidney failure and death.
> > >>>
> > >>> Must I use "did" here?
> > >> Yes. What would you want to use instead? Maybe "I learned only later
> > >> that by ..." would be OK, but the first version is better.
> > >
> > > Thank you for your comments. Is it necessary to use this form for all
> > > adverbial pre-emphasis?
> > >
> > This question is too vague to be answered. But yes, if you want to
> > start the sentence with "Only later" then you need the "did". You
> > haven't answered my question of what you would want to use.
> > --
> > Athel -- French and British, living mainly in England until 1987.
> I think you are all (all replies, not just Athel) missing the point here, and failing to give Hongy the most helpful answer. Apart from in questions, subject-verb inversion is rare in English, but it is required after certain vaguely negative adverbials:
>
> "Not only did I do something, I also did something else"
> "Never have I heard anything so stupid"
> "Hardly ever will I respond to posts at AUE, for fear of being abused and insulted"
>
> Moreover, when the verb is in the simple present or past, you need to use what used to be called the emphatic form, but which modern EFL now apparently refers to as "do-support", i.e. use the appropriate part of the verb "to do" as an auxiliary.
>
> "Only later did I learn ...." is correct.

As can be "Only later I learn..."

Which also answers Hongy's question.

"> *"Only later I did learn" is wrong.
> *"Only later learned I ....." is even more wrong.
>
> Thank you and goodnight.

Re: Only later did I learn that by neglecting this kind of dehydration, you risk kidney failure and death.

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From: enom...@meer.net (Madhu)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Only later did I learn that by neglecting this kind of dehydration, you risk kidney failure and death.
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 by: Madhu - Mon, 16 May 2022 03:56 UTC

* "spains...@gmail.com" <dee1d992-aeb6-4844-ae83-dcb44b685058n @googlegroups.com> :
Wrote on Sun, 15 May 2022 14:19:49 -0700 (PDT):
> On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 7:05:29 PM UTC+1, Suzie Fitzgerald wrote:
[HY]
>> > >>> Only later did I learn that by neglecting this kind of
>> > >>> dehydration, you risk kidney failure and death. Must I use
>> > >>> "did" here?
>> I think you are all (all replies, not just Athel) missing the point
>> here, and failing to give Hongy the most helpful answer. Apart from
>> in questions, subject-verb inversion is rare in English, but it is
>> required after certain vaguely negative adverbials:

>> "Not only did I do something, I also did something else"
>> "Never have I heard anything so stupid"
>> "Hardly ever will I respond to posts at AUE, for fear of being
>> abused and insulted"
>>
>> Moreover, when the verb is in the simple present or past, you need to
>> use what used to be called the emphatic form, but which modern EFL
>> now apparently refers to as "do-support", i.e. use the appropriate
>> part of the verb "to do" as an auxiliary.
>>
>> "Only later did I learn ...." is correct.
>
> As can be "Only later I learn..."

Perhaps so - if the context demanded a past-imperfect aspect, (like also
learning something else). In the absence of such a context the "did"
should not be dropped.

"Only later [did] I learn that by responding to posts on aue you risk
being insulted and abused."

So what else [did] you learn?

(I often drop the [did] in text-based chat for enhanced non-native
effect)

Re: Only later did I learn that by neglecting this kind of dehydration, you risk kidney failure and death.

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Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Only later did I learn that by neglecting this kind of
dehydration, you risk kidney failure and death.
Date: Mon, 16 May 2022 06:39:18 -0400
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 by: CDB - Mon, 16 May 2022 10:39 UTC

On 5/15/2022 2:05 PM, Suzie Fitzgerald wrote:
> Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>> hongy...@gmail.com said:
>>> Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>>>> hongy...@gmail.com said:

>>>>> See this sentence:

>>>>> Only later did I learn that by neglecting this kind of
>>>>> dehydration, you risk kidney failure and death.

>>>>> Must I use "did" here?
>>>> Yes. What would you want to use instead? Maybe "I learned only
>>>> later that by ..." would be OK, but the first version is
>>>> better.

>>> Thank you for your comments. Is it necessary to use this form
>>> for all adverbial pre-emphasis?

>> This question is too vague to be answered. But yes, if you want to
>> start the sentence with "Only later" then you need the "did". You
>> haven't answered my question of what you would want to use.

> I think you are all (all replies, not just Athel) missing the point
> here, and failing to give Hongy the most helpful answer. Apart from
> in questions, subject-verb inversion is rare in English, but it is
> required after certain vaguely negative adverbials:

> "Not only did I do something, I also did something else" "Never have
> I heard anything so stupid" "Hardly ever will I respond to posts at
> AUE, for fear of being abused and insulted"

> Moreover, when the verb is in the simple present or past, you need
> to use what used to be called the emphatic form, but which modern
> EFL now apparently refers to as "do-support", i.e. use the
> appropriate part of the verb "to do" as an auxiliary.

> "Only later did I learn ...." is correct. *"Only later I did learn"
> is wrong. *"Only later learned I ....." is even more wrong.

I disagree that your last example is entirely wrong: IMO, a comma after
"later" would give it a pass in conversational style.

> Thank you and goodnight.

Goodnight, Suzie, you ignorant slut.

https://youtu.be/c91XUyg9iWM?t=48

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