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interests / alt.usage.english / Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkw

SubjectAuthor
* How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkwDavid Kleinecke
+- Re: How to pronounce pkwoRuud Harmsen
+* Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkwPeter T. Daniels
|`* Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkwbil...@shaw.ca
| +* Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ueRoss Clark
| |`* Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkwbil...@shaw.ca
| | +- Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’Madhu
| | `* Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkwDavid Kleinecke
| |  +* Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘uePeter Moylan
| |  |`- Re: How to pronounce pkwo?-o-lo? ?ue-merkwTony Cooper
| |  `- Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkwPeter T. Daniels
| `- Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkwAthel Cornish-Bowden
`* Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkwJerry Friedman
 +* Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ueCDB
 |`- Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkwJerry Friedman
 `* Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkwbil...@shaw.ca
  +- Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkwPeter T. Daniels
  `* Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkwJerry Friedman
   +* Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkwQuinn C
   |`* Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkwJerry Friedman
   | +* Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkwQuinn C
   | |+- Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkwPeter T. Daniels
   | |`- Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkwJerry Friedman
   | `* Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ueSilvano
   |  +* Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkwAthel Cornish-Bowden
   |  |`* Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘uePeter Moylan
   |  | `* Re: How to pronounce pkwo'-o-lo' 'ue-merkwJ. J. Lodder
   |  |  `* Re: How to pronounce pkwo'-o-lo' 'ue-merkwSilvano
   |  |   +* Re: How to pronounce pkwo'-o-lo' 'ue-merkwKerr-Mudd, John
   |  |   |+- Re: How to pronounce pkwo'-o-lo' 'ue-merkwPeter T. Daniels
   |  |   |+- Re: How to pronounce pkwo'-o-lo' 'ue-merkwRichard Heathfield
   |  |   |+* Re: How to pronounce pkwo'-o-lo' 'ue-merkwJ. J. Lodder
   |  |   ||`* Re: How to pronounce pkwo'-o-lo' 'ue-merkwKerr-Mudd, John
   |  |   || `- Re: How to pronounce pkwo'-o-lo' 'ue-merkwJ. J. Lodder
   |  |   |+* Re: How to pronounce pkwo'-o-lo' 'ue-merkwSilvano
   |  |   ||+* Re: How to pronounce pkwo'-o-lo' 'ue-merkwKerr-Mudd, John
   |  |   |||`- Re: How to pronounce pkwo'-o-lo' 'ue-merkwKen Blake
   |  |   ||`- Re: How to pronounce pkwo'-o-lo' 'ue-merkwPeter T. Daniels
   |  |   |`* Re: How to pronounce pkwo'-o-lo' 'ue-merkwCDB
   |  |   | `* Re: How to pronounce pkwo'-o-lo' 'ue-merkwRichard Heathfield
   |  |   |  `* Re: How to pronounce pkwo'-o-lo' 'ue-merkwCDB
   |  |   |   `* Re: How to pronounce pkwo'-o-lo' 'ue-merkwRichard Heathfield
   |  |   |    `* Re: How to pronounce pkwo'-o-lo' 'ue-merkwCDB
   |  |   |     `* Re: How to pronounce pkwo'-o-lo' 'ue-merkwRichard Heathfield
   |  |   |      `* Re: How to pronounce pkwo'-o-lo' 'ue-merkwCDB
   |  |   |       `* Re: How to pronounce pkwo'-o-lo' 'ue-merkwAnders D. Nygaard
   |  |   |        +- Re: How to pronounce pkwo'-o-lo' 'ue-merkwKerr-Mudd, John
   |  |   |        `* Re: How to pronounce pkwo'-o-lo' 'ue-merkwCDB
   |  |   |         `- Re: How to pronounce pkwo'-o-lo' 'ue-merkwPhoenix Mister Two
   |  |   +- Re: How to pronounce pkwo'-o-lo' 'ue-merkwPeter Moylan
   |  |   +* Re: How to pronounce pkwo'-o-lo' 'ue-merkwRuud Harmsen
   |  |   |`* Re: How to pronounce pkwo'-o-lo' 'ue-merkwSilvano
   |  |   | `- Re: How to pronounce pkwo'-o-lo' 'ue-merkwRuud Harmsen
   |  |   `* Re: How to pronounce pkwo'-o-lo' 'ue-merkwRuud Harmsen
   |  |    +- Re: How to pronounce pkwo'-o-lo' 'ue-merkwKerr-Mudd, John
   |  |    `- Re: How to pronounce pkwo'-o-lo' 'ue-merkwPeter T. Daniels
   |  `- Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkwJerry Friedman
   `* Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘uelar3ryca
    +* Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkwPeter T. Daniels
    |`- Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ueCDB
    `* Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkwJerry Friedman
     `* Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkwDavid Kleinecke
      +- Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkwbil...@shaw.ca
      +* Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘uePeter Moylan
      |`- Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkwbil...@shaw.ca
      `- Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’Kerr-Mudd, John

Pages:123
How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkw

<b494ea12-a774-45eb-9ffd-974273ce6e08n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkw
From: dkleine...@gmail.com (David Kleinecke)
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 by: David Kleinecke - Sat, 14 May 2022 05:20 UTC

We want to change the name of Squaw Tit Mountain to pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkw
(Yurok for maple). This is something that will terrify the average English speaker. I am unsure how to say it (I have neglected my Yurok phonology). I
imagine "pkw" is a labialized co-articulated stop and "'" is a glottal stop.. But two glottal stops? I imagine people will say something like "polowemerk"

Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkw

<1lmu7ht9lrck7ne8pt822hleelm13qsiu4@4ax.com>

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From: rh...@rudhar.com (Ruud Harmsen)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: How_to_pronounce_pkwo
’-o-lo’_‘ue-mer
kw
Date: Sat, 14 May 2022 09:32:29 +0200
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 by: Ruud Harmsen - Sat, 14 May 2022 07:32 UTC

Fri, 13 May 2022 22:20:04 -0700 (PDT): David Kleinecke
<dkleinecke@gmail.com> scribeva:

>We want to change the name of Squaw Tit Mountain to pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkw
>(Yurok for maple). This is something that will terrify the average English speaker.
>I am unsure how to say it (I have neglected my Yurok phonology). I imagine
>"pkw" is a labialized co-articulated stop and "'" is a glottal stop. But two glottal
>stops? I imagine people will say something like "polowemerk"

‘u might be a glottalized w, possibly realised as creaky voice on the
preceding vowel.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yurok_language#Consonants

Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkw

<fe9f550c-066e-474f-949b-803712660d90n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkw
From: gramma...@verizon.net (Peter T. Daniels)
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 by: Peter T. Daniels - Sat, 14 May 2022 13:52 UTC

On Saturday, May 14, 2022 at 1:20:06 AM UTC-4, dklei...@gmail.com wrote:

> We want to change the name of Squaw Tit Mountain to pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkw
> (Yurok for maple). This is something that will terrify the average English speaker. I am unsure how to say it (I have neglected my Yurok phonology). I
> imagine "pkw" is a labialized co-articulated stop and "'" is a glottal stop. But two glottal stops? I imagine people will say something like "polowemerk"

I don't suppose Yurok Maple Mountain would do.

According to Bright's dictionary, there are places called Squaw Teat
in four states and Squaw Tit in five.

Are you agitating to change "Grand Tetons" as well?

Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkw

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Subject: Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkw
From: bill...@shaw.ca (bil...@shaw.ca)
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 by: bil...@shaw.ca - Sun, 15 May 2022 21:38 UTC

On Saturday, May 14, 2022 at 6:52:14 AM UTC-7, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> On Saturday, May 14, 2022 at 1:20:06 AM UTC-4, dklei...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > We want to change the name of Squaw Tit Mountain to pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkw
> > (Yurok for maple). This is something that will terrify the average English speaker. I am unsure how to say it (I have neglected my Yurok phonology). I
> > imagine "pkw" is a labialized co-articulated stop and "'" is a glottal stop. But two glottal stops? I imagine people will say something like "polowemerk"
> I don't suppose Yurok Maple Mountain would do.
>
> According to Bright's dictionary, there are places called Squaw Teat
> in four states and Squaw Tit in five.
>
> Are you agitating to change "Grand Tetons" as well?

The two little mountain peaks on Vancouver's North Shore known as "The Lions" --
after which the Lions Gate Bridge was named -- were once called Sheba's Tits.
That name is now rarely heard in conversation, and is probably close to disappearing
from local conversational English. A minimum of research indicates it originated
shortly before or after the turn of the 20th century. The Lions Gate Bridge was
built in the 1930s and "The Lions" soon became the normal name of those peaks.

bill

Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkw

<t5s48p$bdb$1@dont-email.me>

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From: benli...@ihug.co.nz (Ross Clark)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue
-merkw
Date: Mon, 16 May 2022 12:01:22 +1200
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 by: Ross Clark - Mon, 16 May 2022 00:01 UTC

On 16/05/2022 9:38 a.m., bil...@shaw.ca wrote:
> On Saturday, May 14, 2022 at 6:52:14 AM UTC-7, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>> On Saturday, May 14, 2022 at 1:20:06 AM UTC-4, dklei...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> We want to change the name of Squaw Tit Mountain to pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkw
>>> (Yurok for maple). This is something that will terrify the average English speaker. I am unsure how to say it (I have neglected my Yurok phonology). I
>>> imagine "pkw" is a labialized co-articulated stop and "'" is a glottal stop. But two glottal stops? I imagine people will say something like "polowemerk"
>> I don't suppose Yurok Maple Mountain would do.
>>
>> According to Bright's dictionary, there are places called Squaw Teat
>> in four states and Squaw Tit in five.
>>
>> Are you agitating to change "Grand Tetons" as well?
>
> The two little mountain peaks on Vancouver's North Shore known as "The Lions" --
> after which the Lions Gate Bridge was named -- were once called Sheba's Tits.
> That name is now rarely heard in conversation, and is probably close to disappearing
> from local conversational English. A minimum of research indicates it originated
> shortly before or after the turn of the 20th century. The Lions Gate Bridge was
> built in the 1930s and "The Lions" soon became the normal name of those peaks.
>
> bill
>

Akrigg & Akrigg, _1001 British Columbia Place Names_ (Discovery Press,
1969) give "The Sisters" and "Sheba's Paps" as earlier names. They
credit one "Judge Gray", ca.1890, with suggesting "The Lions" and also
"The Lion's Gate" [should be Lions'?] for First Narrows.

But who was Sheba? A local celebrity? or the Queen of Biblical renown?

Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkw

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Subject: Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkw
From: bill...@shaw.ca (bil...@shaw.ca)
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 by: bil...@shaw.ca - Mon, 16 May 2022 01:16 UTC

On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 5:01:34 PM UTC-7, benl...@ihug.co.nz wrote:
> On 16/05/2022 9:38 a.m., bil...@shaw.ca wrote:
> > On Saturday, May 14, 2022 at 6:52:14 AM UTC-7, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> >> On Saturday, May 14, 2022 at 1:20:06 AM UTC-4, dklei...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>
> >>> We want to change the name of Squaw Tit Mountain to pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkw
> >>> (Yurok for maple). This is something that will terrify the average English speaker. I am unsure how to say it (I have neglected my Yurok phonology). I
> >>> imagine "pkw" is a labialized co-articulated stop and "'" is a glottal stop. But two glottal stops? I imagine people will say something like "polowemerk"
> >> I don't suppose Yurok Maple Mountain would do.
> >>
> >> According to Bright's dictionary, there are places called Squaw Teat
> >> in four states and Squaw Tit in five.
> >>
> >> Are you agitating to change "Grand Tetons" as well?
> >
> > The two little mountain peaks on Vancouver's North Shore known as "The Lions" --
> > after which the Lions Gate Bridge was named -- were once called Sheba's Tits.
> > That name is now rarely heard in conversation, and is probably close to disappearing
> > from local conversational English. A minimum of research indicates it originated
> > shortly before or after the turn of the 20th century. The Lions Gate Bridge was
> > built in the 1930s and "The Lions" soon became the normal name of those peaks.
> >
> > bill
> >
> Akrigg & Akrigg, _1001 British Columbia Place Names_ (Discovery Press,
> 1969) give "The Sisters" and "Sheba's Paps" as earlier names. They
> credit one "Judge Gray", ca.1890, with suggesting "The Lions" and also
> "The Lion's Gate" [should be Lions'?] for First Narrows.
>
> But who was Sheba? A local celebrity? or the Queen of Biblical renown?

The latter. There is virtually no recorded history for British Columbia before
about 1850, when there were only a few hundred non-indigenous people
in what is now B.C. What little there was made no mention of Sheba except
as the legendary African queen.

bill

Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkw

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From: enom...@meer.net (Madhu)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’
‘ue-merkw
Date: Mon, 16 May 2022 09:30:30 +0530
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 by: Madhu - Mon, 16 May 2022 04:00 UTC

* BVan <1fa8c519-c0af-4037-8d38-33f2fe29b416n@googlegroups.com> :
Wrote on Sun, 15 May 2022 18:16:47 -0700 (PDT):

> On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 5:01:34 PM UTC-7, RC
>> On 16/05/2022 9:38 a.m., BV
>> > The two little mountain peaks on Vancouver's North Shore known as
>> > "The Lions" -- after which the Lions Gate Bridge was named -- were
>> > once called Sheba's Tits. That name is now rarely heard in
>> > conversation, and is probably close to disappearing from local
>> > conversational English. A minimum of research indicates it
>> > originated shortly before or after the turn of the 20th
>> > century. The Lions Gate Bridge was built in the 1930s and "The
>> > Lions" soon became the normal name of those peaks.

>> Akrigg & Akrigg, _1001 British Columbia Place Names_ (Discovery
>> Press, 1969) give "The Sisters" and "Sheba's Paps" as earlier
>> names. They credit one "Judge Gray", ca.1890, with suggesting "The
>> Lions" and also "The Lion's Gate" [should be Lions'?] for First
>> Narrows.
>>
>> But who was Sheba? A local celebrity? or the Queen of Biblical
>> renown?

"The half was not told me." (1Ki.10:7)

> The latter. There is virtually no recorded history for British
> Columbia before about 1850, when there were only a few hundred
> non-indigenous people in what is now B.C. What little there was made
> no mention of Sheba except as the legendary African queen.

Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkw

<jee98kFmstjU1@mid.individual.net>

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From: acorn...@imm.cnrs.fr (Athel Cornish-Bowden)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkw
Date: Mon, 16 May 2022 08:28:34 +0200
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 by: Athel Cornish-Bowden - Mon, 16 May 2022 06:28 UTC

On 2022-05-15 21:38:23 +0000, bil...@shaw.ca said:

> On Saturday, May 14, 2022 at 6:52:14 AM UTC-7, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>> On Saturday, May 14, 2022 at 1:20:06 AM UTC-4, dklei...@gmail.com
>> wrote:>> > We want to change the name of Squaw Tit Mountain to
>> pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkw> > (Yurok for maple). This is something that will
>> terrify the average English speaker. I am unsure how to say it (I have
>> neglected my Yurok phonology). I> > imagine "pkw" is a labialized
>> co-articulated stop and "'" is a glottal stop. But two glottal stops? I
>> imagine people will say something like "polowemerk"
>> I don't suppose Yurok Maple Mountain would do.>> According to Bright's
>> dictionary, there are places called Squaw Teat> in four states and
>> Squaw Tit in five.>> Are you agitating to change "Grand Tetons" as well?
>
> The two little mountain peaks on Vancouver's North Shore known as "The
> Lions" --
> after which the Lions Gate Bridge was named -- were once called Sheba's Tits.
> That name is now rarely heard in conversation, and is probably close to
> disappearing
> from local conversational English. A minimum of research indicates it
> originatedshortly before or after the turn of the 20th century. The
> Lions Gate Bridge was
> built in the 1930s and "The Lions" soon became the normal name of those peaks.

The Twin Peaks in San Francisco were called "Los Pechos de la Chola"
before acquiring their present name.

--
Athel -- French and British, living mainly in England until 1987.

Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkw

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Subject: Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkw
From: dkleine...@gmail.com (David Kleinecke)
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 by: David Kleinecke - Mon, 16 May 2022 21:35 UTC

On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 6:16:49 PM UTC-7, bil...@shaw.ca wrote:
> On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 5:01:34 PM UTC-7, benl...@ihug.co.nz wrote:
> > On 16/05/2022 9:38 a.m., bil...@shaw.ca wrote:
> > > On Saturday, May 14, 2022 at 6:52:14 AM UTC-7, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > >> On Saturday, May 14, 2022 at 1:20:06 AM UTC-4, dklei...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> We want to change the name of Squaw Tit Mountain to pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkw
> > >>> (Yurok for maple). This is something that will terrify the average English speaker. I am unsure how to say it (I have neglected my Yurok phonology). I
> > >>> imagine "pkw" is a labialized co-articulated stop and "'" is a glottal stop. But two glottal stops? I imagine people will say something like "polowemerk"
> > >> I don't suppose Yurok Maple Mountain would do.
> > >>
> > >> According to Bright's dictionary, there are places called Squaw Teat
> > >> in four states and Squaw Tit in five.
> > >>
> > >> Are you agitating to change "Grand Tetons" as well?
> > >
> > > The two little mountain peaks on Vancouver's North Shore known as "The Lions" --
> > > after which the Lions Gate Bridge was named -- were once called Sheba's Tits.
> > > That name is now rarely heard in conversation, and is probably close to disappearing
> > > from local conversational English. A minimum of research indicates it originated
> > > shortly before or after the turn of the 20th century. The Lions Gate Bridge was
> > > built in the 1930s and "The Lions" soon became the normal name of those peaks.
> > >
> > > bill
> > >
> > Akrigg & Akrigg, _1001 British Columbia Place Names_ (Discovery Press,
> > 1969) give "The Sisters" and "Sheba's Paps" as earlier names. They
> > credit one "Judge Gray", ca.1890, with suggesting "The Lions" and also
> > "The Lion's Gate" [should be Lions'?] for First Narrows.
> >
> > But who was Sheba? A local celebrity? or the Queen of Biblical renown?
> The latter. There is virtually no recorded history for British Columbia before
> about 1850, when there were only a few hundred non-indigenous people
> in what is now B.C. What little there was made no mention of Sheba except
> as the legendary African queen.

The Humbldt Bay area was also settled after 1850. In the Eel River delta we
have islands called Cannibal Island and Cock Robin Island. As nearly as I
can tell neither name is connected to any explanation.

In Santa Barbara there is an Indio Muerto Street which has no explanation
in most literature but I know why. The streets in the east end of Santa
Barbara are named after the stopping places of the Portola Expedition of
1780 as they were known to the Barbaren~os of 1850 when the streets
were named. This raises, I belief, a minor mystery because I believe there
were no printed accounts of Portola until after 1850. Did the Spanish (and
later Mexican) community retain an accurate oral account all those seventy
years? In any case at the correct place in the list of stopping places we find
the expedition camping near a big native town where an important funeral
was being celebrated.

Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkw

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From: pet...@pmoylan.org.invalid (Peter Moylan)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue
-merkw
Date: Tue, 17 May 2022 11:12:42 +1000
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 by: Peter Moylan - Tue, 17 May 2022 01:12 UTC

On 17/05/22 07:35, David Kleinecke wrote:

> The Humbldt Bay area was also settled after 1850. In the Eel River delta we
> have islands called Cannibal Island and Cock Robin Island. As nearly as I
> can tell neither name is connected to any explanation.

There's an Intercourse Island off the coast of Western Australia. (It's
part of a group of islands; there's also a West Intercourse Island, an
East Intercourse Island, and a few others.) The official story is that
it was named when an explorer had an intercourse (i.e. a conversation)
with the local aboriginal people.

A more popular explanation is that a sailor once asked "Where are we?"
and another replied "West Fuck".

I believe that at one stage the name was changed to Innercourse Island,
but I can no longer find any evidence of this on the web.

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

Re: How to pronounce pkwo?-o-lo? ?ue-merkw

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From: tonycoop...@gmail.com (Tony Cooper)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: How to pronounce pkwo???-o-lo??? ???ue-merkw
Date: Mon, 16 May 2022 22:08:26 -0400
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 by: Tony Cooper - Tue, 17 May 2022 02:08 UTC

On Tue, 17 May 2022 11:12:42 +1000, Peter Moylan
<peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:

>On 17/05/22 07:35, David Kleinecke wrote:
>
>> The Humbldt Bay area was also settled after 1850. In the Eel River delta we
>> have islands called Cannibal Island and Cock Robin Island. As nearly as I
>> can tell neither name is connected to any explanation.
>
>There's an Intercourse Island off the coast of Western Australia. (It's
>part of a group of islands; there's also a West Intercourse Island, an
>East Intercourse Island, and a few others.) The official story is that
>it was named when an explorer had an intercourse (i.e. a conversation)
>with the local aboriginal people.
>
>A more popular explanation is that a sailor once asked "Where are we?"
>and another replied "West Fuck".
>
>I believe that at one stage the name was changed to Innercourse Island,
>but I can no longer find any evidence of this on the web.

I assume it's been brought up before, but

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intercourse,_Pennsylvania

In my home state of Indiana, there's a city by the name of French
Lick. Often, when it's mentioned, someone will say "It's not as much
fun as it sounds."

It gets mentioned quite a bit since a famous basketball player - Larry
Bird - is from French Lick. Well, actually, from West Baden Springs,
but that's a nearby even-smaller town and Larry went to high school in
French Lick.

--

Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida

I read and post to this group as a form of entertainment.

Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkw

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Subject: Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkw
From: gramma...@verizon.net (Peter T. Daniels)
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 by: Peter T. Daniels - Tue, 17 May 2022 14:17 UTC

On Monday, May 16, 2022 at 5:35:29 PM UTC-4, dklei...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 6:16:49 PM UTC-7, bil...@shaw.ca wrote:
> > On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 5:01:34 PM UTC-7, benl...@ihug.co.nz wrote:
> > > On 16/05/2022 9:38 a.m., bil...@shaw.ca wrote:
> > > > On Saturday, May 14, 2022 at 6:52:14 AM UTC-7, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > > >> On Saturday, May 14, 2022 at 1:20:06 AM UTC-4, dklei...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>> We want to change the name of Squaw Tit Mountain to pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkw
> > > >>> (Yurok for maple). This is something that will terrify the average English speaker. I am unsure how to say it (I have neglected my Yurok phonology). I
> > > >>> imagine "pkw" is a labialized co-articulated stop and "'" is a glottal stop. But two glottal stops? I imagine people will say something like "polowemerk"
> > > >> I don't suppose Yurok Maple Mountain would do.
> > > >>
> > > >> According to Bright's dictionary, there are places called Squaw Teat
> > > >> in four states and Squaw Tit in five.
> > > >>
> > > >> Are you agitating to change "Grand Tetons" as well?
> > > >
> > > > The two little mountain peaks on Vancouver's North Shore known as "The Lions" --
> > > > after which the Lions Gate Bridge was named -- were once called Sheba's Tits.
> > > > That name is now rarely heard in conversation, and is probably close to disappearing
> > > > from local conversational English. A minimum of research indicates it originated
> > > > shortly before or after the turn of the 20th century. The Lions Gate Bridge was
> > > > built in the 1930s and "The Lions" soon became the normal name of those peaks.
> > > >
> > > > bill
> > > >
> > > Akrigg & Akrigg, _1001 British Columbia Place Names_ (Discovery Press,
> > > 1969) give "The Sisters" and "Sheba's Paps" as earlier names. They
> > > credit one "Judge Gray", ca.1890, with suggesting "The Lions" and also
> > > "The Lion's Gate" [should be Lions'?] for First Narrows.
> > >
> > > But who was Sheba? A local celebrity? or the Queen of Biblical renown?
> > The latter. There is virtually no recorded history for British Columbia before
> > about 1850, when there were only a few hundred non-indigenous people
> > in what is now B.C. What little there was made no mention of Sheba except
> > as the legendary African queen.
> The Humbldt Bay area was also settled after 1850. In the Eel River delta we
> have islands called Cannibal Island and Cock Robin Island. As nearly as I
> can tell neither name is connected to any explanation.
>
> In Santa Barbara there is an Indio Muerto Street which has no explanation
> in most literature but I know why. The streets in the east end of Santa
> Barbara are named after the stopping places of the Portola Expedition of
> 1780 as they were known to the Barbaren~os of 1850 when the streets
> were named. This raises, I belief, a minor mystery because I believe there
> were no printed accounts of Portola until after 1850. Did the Spanish (and
> later Mexican) community retain an accurate oral account all those seventy
> years? In any case at the correct place in the list of stopping places we find
> the expedition camping near a big native town where an important funeral
> was being celebrated.

Presumably the Fathers who were founding the missions kept copious
records of the expeditions -- like the "Jesuit Relations" of French Canada,
which are invaluable for 17th-century Native ethnography; and of the
Conquistadores in Mexico in the 16th. Such reports would have been
sent to Rome, and maybe they began to be read in the mid 19th century.

Jesuits, Franciscans, Dominicans? Who were the main missionary orders
in California, who marked the calendar with the saints' names they
bestowed on the land?

Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkw

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Subject: Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkw
From: jerry_fr...@yahoo.com (Jerry Friedman)
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 by: Jerry Friedman - Tue, 17 May 2022 15:02 UTC

On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 11:20:06 PM UTC-6, dklei...@gmail.com wrote:
> We want to change the name of Squaw Tit Mountain to pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkw
> (Yurok for maple). This is something that will terrify the average English speaker. I am unsure how to say it (I have neglected my Yurok phonology). I
> imagine "pkw" is a labialized co-articulated stop and "'" is a glottal stop. But two glottal stops? I imagine people will say something like "polowemerk"

I imagine most people won't say it.

This reminds me of a story my mother told me from when she was teaching at a home for unwed mothers. One girl was reading about India in a social studies textbook and came across the name of the military "social order", Kshatriya. She thought that would be a good name for a baby girl. "How do you pronounce that, Ms. Friedman? Kish... Ksh..."

I'd go farther than PTD and suggest "Maple Mountain", though "Polowemerk Mountain" might be a possibility. Maybe you could find a Yurok speaker and get them to start a game of telephone (=Chinese whispers) with their word, in order to mimic the changes the word would go through in anglicization. (Wikipedia says that in 2013, there were no native speakers left, but there were some 400 people who had studied the language, including 17 who were conversationally fluent.)

Have Yurok people made suggestions about the name of the mountain?

--
Jerry Friedman

Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkw

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Subject: Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue
-merkw
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 by: CDB - Tue, 17 May 2022 16:31 UTC

On 5/17/2022 11:02 AM, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> dklei...@gmail.com wrote:

>> We want to change the name of Squaw Tit Mountain to pkwo’-o-lo’
>> ‘ue-merkw (Yurok for maple). This is something that will terrify
>> the average English speaker. I am unsure how to say it (I have
>> neglected my Yurok phonology). I imagine "pkw" is a labialized
>> co-articulated stop and "'" is a glottal stop. But two glottal
>> stops? I imagine people will say something like "polowemerk"

> I imagine most people won't say it.

> This reminds me of a story my mother told me from when she was
> teaching at a home for unwed mothers. One girl was reading about
> India in a social studies textbook and came across the name of the
> military "social order", Kshatriya. She thought that would be a good
> name for a baby girl. "How do you pronounce that, Ms. Friedman?
> Kish... Ksh..."

> I'd go farther than PTD and suggest "Maple Mountain", though
> "Polowemerk Mountain" might be a possibility. Maybe you could find a
> Yurok speaker and get them to start a game of telephone (=Chinese
> whispers) with their word, in order to mimic the changes the word
> would go through in anglicization. (Wikipedia says that in 2013,
> there were no native speakers left, but there were some 400 people
> who had studied the language, including 17 who were conversationally
> fluent.)

> Have Yurok people made suggestions about the name of the mountain?

I thought he spoke Russian and English.

Welcome back. I hope all went swimmingly, except for the part on a river.

Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkw

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Subject: Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkw
From: jerry_fr...@yahoo.com (Jerry Friedman)
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 by: Jerry Friedman - Tue, 17 May 2022 20:46 UTC

On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 10:31:48 AM UTC-6, CDB wrote:
> On 5/17/2022 11:02 AM, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> > dklei...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> >> We want to change the name of Squaw Tit Mountain to pkwo’-o-lo’
> >> ‘ue-merkw (Yurok for maple). This is something that will terrify
> >> the average English speaker. I am unsure how to say it (I have
> >> neglected my Yurok phonology). I imagine "pkw" is a labialized
> >> co-articulated stop and "'" is a glottal stop. But two glottal
> >> stops? I imagine people will say something like "polowemerk"
>
> > I imagine most people won't say it.
>
> > This reminds me of a story my mother told me from when she was
> > teaching at a home for unwed mothers. One girl was reading about
> > India in a social studies textbook and came across the name of the
> > military "social order", Kshatriya. She thought that would be a good
> > name for a baby girl. "How do you pronounce that, Ms. Friedman?
> > Kish... Ksh..."
>
> > I'd go farther than PTD and suggest "Maple Mountain", though
> > "Polowemerk Mountain" might be a possibility. Maybe you could find a
> > Yurok speaker and get them to start a game of telephone (=Chinese
> > whispers) with their word, in order to mimic the changes the word
> > would go through in anglicization. (Wikipedia says that in 2013,
> > there were no native speakers left, but there were some 400 people
> > who had studied the language, including 17 who were conversationally
> > fluent.)
>
> > Have Yurok people made suggestions about the name of the mountain?

> I thought he spoke Russian and English.

Maybe several other languages under the Sun.

> Welcome back. I hope all went swimmingly, except for the part on a river.

Thank you. It went well enough.

--
Jerry Friedman

Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkw

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Subject: Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkw
From: bill...@shaw.ca (bil...@shaw.ca)
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 by: bil...@shaw.ca - Wed, 18 May 2022 07:46 UTC

On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 8:02:47 AM UTC-7, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 11:20:06 PM UTC-6, dklei...@gmail.com wrote:
> > We want to change the name of Squaw Tit Mountain to pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkw
> > (Yurok for maple). This is something that will terrify the average English speaker. I am unsure how to say it (I have neglected my Yurok phonology). I
> > imagine "pkw" is a labialized co-articulated stop and "'" is a glottal stop. But two glottal stops? I imagine people will say something like "polowemerk"
> I imagine most people won't say it.
>
> This reminds me of a story my mother told me from when she was teaching at a home for unwed mothers. One girl was reading about India in a social studies textbook and came across the name of the military "social order", Kshatriya. She thought that would be a good name for a baby girl. "How do you pronounce that, Ms. Friedman? Kish... Ksh..."
>
> I'd go farther than PTD and suggest "Maple Mountain", though "Polowemerk Mountain" might be a possibility. Maybe you could find a Yurok speaker and get them to start a game of telephone (=Chinese whispers) with their word, in order to mimic the changes the word would go through in anglicization. (Wikipedia says that in 2013, there were no native speakers left, but there were some 400 people who had studied the language, including 17 who were conversationally fluent.)
>
> Have Yurok people made suggestions about the name of the mountain?
>
https://krcrtv.com/north-coast-news/eureka-local-news/yurok-tribe-calls-for-changing-offensive-mountain-peak-name

bill

Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkw

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Subject: Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkw
From: gramma...@verizon.net (Peter T. Daniels)
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 by: Peter T. Daniels - Wed, 18 May 2022 13:07 UTC

On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 3:46:08 AM UTC-4, bil...@shaw.ca wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 8:02:47 AM UTC-7, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> > On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 11:20:06 PM UTC-6, dklei...@gmail.com wrote:

> > > We want to change the name of Squaw Tit Mountain to pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkw
> > > (Yurok for maple). This is something that will terrify the average English speaker. I am unsure how to say it (I have neglected my Yurok phonology). I
> > > imagine "pkw" is a labialized co-articulated stop and "'" is a glottal stop. But two glottal stops? I imagine people will say something like "polowemerk"
> > I imagine most people won't say it.
> >
> > This reminds me of a story my mother told me from when she was teaching at a home for unwed mothers. One girl was reading about India in a social studies textbook and came across the name of the military "social order", Kshatriya. She thought that would be a good name for a baby girl. "How do you pronounce that, Ms. Friedman? Kish... Ksh..."
> >
> > I'd go farther than PTD and suggest "Maple Mountain", though "Polowemerk Mountain" might be a possibility. Maybe you could find a Yurok speaker and get them to start a game of telephone (=Chinese whispers) with their word, in order to mimic the changes the word would go through in anglicization. (Wikipedia says that in 2013, there were no native speakers left, but there were some 400 people who had studied the language, including 17 who were conversationally fluent.)
> >
> > Have Yurok people made suggestions about the name of the mountain?
>
> https://krcrtv.com/north-coast-news/eureka-local-news/yurok-tribe-calls-for-changing-offensive-mountain-peak-name

"Maple Peak" makes sense. Something unpronounceable by well over
300,000,000 Americans would be unwise.

(Are they interested in tourist dollars? Does CA have "Indian casinos"?)

Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkw

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Subject: Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkw
From: jerry_fr...@yahoo.com (Jerry Friedman)
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 by: Jerry Friedman - Wed, 18 May 2022 15:47 UTC

On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 1:46:08 AM UTC-6, bil...@shaw.ca wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 8:02:47 AM UTC-7, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> > On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 11:20:06 PM UTC-6, dklei...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > We want to change the name of Squaw Tit Mountain to pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkw
> > > (Yurok for maple). This is something that will terrify the average English speaker. I am unsure how to say it (I have neglected my Yurok phonology). I
> > > imagine "pkw" is a labialized co-articulated stop and "'" is a glottal stop. But two glottal stops? I imagine people will say something like "polowemerk"
....

> > I'd go farther than PTD and suggest "Maple Mountain", though "Polowemerk Mountain" might be a possibility. Maybe you could find a Yurok speaker and get them to start a game of telephone (=Chinese whispers) with their word, in order to mimic the changes the word would go through in anglicization. (Wikipedia says that in 2013, there were no native speakers left, but there were some 400 people who had studied the language, including 17 who were conversationally fluent.)
> >
> > Have Yurok people made suggestions about the name of the mountain?
> >
> https://krcrtv.com/north-coast-news/eureka-local-news/yurok-tribe-calls-for-changing-offensive-mountain-peak-name

You mean there's an Internet where I can find answers to such questions?
However, that page didn't load for me. Here's another one

https://lostcoastoutpost.com/2022/may/13/yurok-tribe-petitions-federal-government-change-lo/

which includes a sound file. The pronunciation is not, in my opinion, anything
like what the spelling suggests, and will be very difficult for about 99% of non-
Yuroks.

That article also mentions broad local support (David's "we") and support from
the state of California, so the change seems likely to happen. Personally, I think
a suggested alternate name, Maple Peak, would be a nice addition.

--
Jerry Friedman

Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkw

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From: lispamat...@crommatograph.info (Quinn C)
Subject: Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’_‘ue-merkw
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 by: Quinn C - Wed, 18 May 2022 16:33 UTC

* Jerry Friedman:

> On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 1:46:08 AM UTC-6, bil...@shaw.ca wrote:
>> On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 8:02:47 AM UTC-7, Jerry Friedman wrote:
>>> On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 11:20:06 PM UTC-6, dklei...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> > We want to change the name of Squaw Tit Mountain to pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkw
>>> > (Yurok for maple). This is something that will terrify the average English speaker. I am unsure how to say it (I have neglected my Yurok phonology). I
>>> > imagine "pkw" is a labialized co-articulated stop and "'" is a glottal stop. But two glottal stops? I imagine people will say something like "polowemerk"
> ...
>
>>> I'd go farther than PTD and suggest "Maple Mountain", though "Polowemerk Mountain" might be a possibility. Maybe you could find a Yurok speaker and get them to start a game of telephone (=Chinese whispers) with their word, in order to mimic the changes the word would go through in anglicization. (Wikipedia says that in 2013, there were no native speakers left, but there were some 400 people who had studied the language, including 17 who were conversationally fluent.)
>>>
>>> Have Yurok people made suggestions about the name of the mountain?
>>>
>> https://krcrtv.com/north-coast-news/eureka-local-news/yurok-tribe-calls-for-changing-offensive-mountain-peak-name
>
> You mean there's an Internet where I can find answers to such questions?
> However, that page didn't load for me. Here's another one
>
> https://lostcoastoutpost.com/2022/may/13/yurok-tribe-petitions-federal-government-change-lo/
>
> which includes a sound file. The pronunciation is not, in my opinion, anything
> like what the spelling suggests,

I find it remarkably close to what I'd make of the spelling without
further instruction.

> and will be very difficult for about 99% of non-
> Yuroks.
>
> That article also mentions broad local support (David's "we") and support from
> the state of California, so the change seems likely to happen. Personally, I think
> a suggested alternate name, Maple Peak, would be a nice addition.

Having names in two languages for a geographic feature is not at all
unusual, globally speaking, so yes.

--
- What you're proposing is suicide!
- If you have nothing positive to say, Mila ...
- All right, I'll prepare some food. Nobody should die on an empty
stomach. -- ST DS9, S07E25

Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkw

<t63fce$tp6$1@dont-email.me>

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From: lar...@invalid.ca (lar3ryca)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue
-merkw
Date: Wed, 18 May 2022 12:54:05 -0600
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 by: lar3ryca - Wed, 18 May 2022 18:54 UTC

On 2022-05-18 09:47, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 1:46:08 AM UTC-6, bil...@shaw.ca wrote:
>> On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 8:02:47 AM UTC-7, Jerry Friedman wrote:
>>> On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 11:20:06 PM UTC-6, dklei...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> We want to change the name of Squaw Tit Mountain to pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkw
>>>> (Yurok for maple). This is something that will terrify the average English speaker. I am unsure how to say it (I have neglected my Yurok phonology). I
>>>> imagine "pkw" is a labialized co-articulated stop and "'" is a glottal stop. But two glottal stops? I imagine people will say something like "polowemerk"
> ...
>
>>> I'd go farther than PTD and suggest "Maple Mountain", though "Polowemerk Mountain" might be a possibility. Maybe you could find a Yurok speaker and get them to start a game of telephone (=Chinese whispers) with their word, in order to mimic the changes the word would go through in anglicization. (Wikipedia says that in 2013, there were no native speakers left, but there were some 400 people who had studied the language, including 17 who were conversationally fluent.)
>>>
>>> Have Yurok people made suggestions about the name of the mountain?
>>>
>> https://krcrtv.com/north-coast-news/eureka-local-news/yurok-tribe-calls-for-changing-offensive-mountain-peak-name
>
> You mean there's an Internet where I can find answers to such questions?
> However, that page didn't load for me. Here's another one
>
> https://lostcoastoutpost.com/2022/may/13/yurok-tribe-petitions-federal-government-change-lo/

That's hilarious! They've censored the word 'Squaw' and left 'Tit' as is.

> which includes a sound file. The pronunciation is not, in my opinion, anything
> like what the spelling suggests, and will be very difficult for about 99% of non-
> Yuroks.

It's a pretty good bet that non-Yurok folks will not be calling it that.

> That article also mentions broad local support (David's "we") and support from
> the state of California, so the change seems likely to happen. Personally, I think
> a suggested alternate name, Maple Peak, would be a nice addition.
>

Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkw

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Subject: Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkw
From: gramma...@verizon.net (Peter T. Daniels)
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 by: Peter T. Daniels - Wed, 18 May 2022 20:01 UTC

On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 2:54:11 PM UTC-4, lar3ryca wrote:
> On 2022-05-18 09:47, Jerry Friedman wrote:

[Squaw Tit objectionable in part]
> > https://lostcoastoutpost.com/2022/may/13/yurok-tribe-petitions-federal-government-change-lo/
>
> That's hilarious! They've censored the word 'Squaw' and left 'Tit' as is.

? What's wrong with "tit"? It's the usual dairy farmer's word for udder
(usually spelled teat, but pronounced tit), and regularly occurs in
crossword puzzles to name a small bird.

The hilarity is rich from someone who broadcast the 1950s(?) gay
slang term "tube steak" for 'penis'.

If lar3 doesn't understand the problem with "squaw," let everyone
address him as "hoser." (We were recently told here that "canuck"
is no longer offensive.)

Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkw

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Subject: Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkw
From: jerry_fr...@yahoo.com (Jerry Friedman)
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 by: Jerry Friedman - Wed, 18 May 2022 22:24 UTC

On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 10:33:50 AM UTC-6, Quinn C wrote:
> * Jerry Friedman:
> > On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 1:46:08 AM UTC-6, bil...@shaw.ca wrote:
> >> On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 8:02:47 AM UTC-7, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> >>> On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 11:20:06 PM UTC-6, dklei...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>> > We want to change the name of Squaw Tit Mountain to pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkw
> >>> > (Yurok for maple). This is something that will terrify the average English speaker. I am unsure how to say it (I have neglected my Yurok phonology). I
> >>> > imagine "pkw" is a labialized co-articulated stop and "'" is a glottal stop. But two glottal stops? I imagine people will say something like "polowemerk"
> > ...
> >
> >>> I'd go farther than PTD and suggest "Maple Mountain", though "Polowemerk Mountain" might be a possibility. Maybe you could find a Yurok speaker and get them to start a game of telephone (=Chinese whispers) with their word, in order to mimic the changes the word would go through in anglicization. (Wikipedia says that in 2013, there were no native speakers left, but there were some 400 people who had studied the language, including 17 who were conversationally fluent.)
> >>>
> >>> Have Yurok people made suggestions about the name of the mountain?
> >>>
> >> https://krcrtv.com/north-coast-news/eureka-local-news/yurok-tribe-calls-for-changing-offensive-mountain-peak-name
> >
> > You mean there's an Internet where I can find answers to such questions?
> > However, that page didn't load for me. Here's another one
> >
> > https://lostcoastoutpost.com/2022/may/13/yurok-tribe-petitions-federal-government-change-lo/
> >
> > which includes a sound file. The pronunciation is not, in my opinion, anything
> > like what the spelling suggests,

> I find it remarkably close to what I'd make of the spelling without
> further instruction.

Huh. I can't hear the e in `ue or the final kw, and the e in "merkw" sound like /a/
to me. I shouldn't have said "not anything like", though.

> > and will be very difficult for about 99% of non-
> > Yuroks.
> >
> > That article also mentions broad local support (David's "we") and support from
> > the state of California, so the change seems likely to happen. Personally, I think
> > a suggested alternate name, Maple Peak, would be a nice addition.

> Having names in two languages for a geographic feature is not at all
> unusual, globally speaking, so yes.

Locally speaking, though, it's forbidden.

"*Principle V. One Name for One Geographic Feature*

"The BGN [Board on Geographic Names] identifies one name, spelling, and application
as official for a geographic feature in the United States, and its territories and outlying
areas."

The BGN does record variant names, though.

--
Jerry Friedman

Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkw

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Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue
-merkw
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 by: CDB - Thu, 19 May 2022 10:50 UTC

On 5/18/2022 4:01 PM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> lar3ryca wrote:
>> Jerry Friedman wrote:

> [Squaw Tit objectionable in part]

>>> https://lostcoastoutpost.com/2022/may/13/yurok-tribe-petitions-federal-government-change-lo/

>>
>>>
>>>
That's hilarious! They've censored the word 'Squaw' and left 'Tit' as is.

> ? What's wrong with "tit"? It's the usual dairy farmer's word for
> udder (usually spelled teat, but pronounced tit), and regularly
> occurs in crossword puzzles to name a small bird.

> The hilarity is rich from someone who broadcast the 1950s(?) gay
> slang term "tube steak" for 'penis'.

> If lar3 doesn't understand the problem with "squaw," let everyone
> address him as "hoser." (We were recently told here that "canuck" is
> no longer offensive.)

"Hoser" isn't particularly unfriendly - more jocular, like. There seems
to be a lot of confusion about these terms: I remember a neighbour who
used to use "tubes" to mean "tits" (while scanning _Playboy_, for
instance: "lookit the tubes on this one").

Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkw

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From: lispamat...@crommatograph.info (Quinn C)
Subject: Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’_‘ue-merkw
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 by: Quinn C - Thu, 19 May 2022 13:49 UTC

* Jerry Friedman:

> On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 10:33:50 AM UTC-6, Quinn C wrote:
>> * Jerry Friedman:
>>> On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 1:46:08 AM UTC-6, bil...@shaw.ca wrote:
>>>> On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 8:02:47 AM UTC-7, Jerry Friedman wrote:
>>>>> On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 11:20:06 PM UTC-6, dklei...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>> > We want to change the name of Squaw Tit Mountain to pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkw
>>>>> > (Yurok for maple). This is something that will terrify the average English speaker. I am unsure how to say it (I have neglected my Yurok phonology). I
>>>>> > imagine "pkw" is a labialized co-articulated stop and "'" is a glottal stop. But two glottal stops? I imagine people will say something like "polowemerk"
>>> ...
>>>
>>>>> I'd go farther than PTD and suggest "Maple Mountain", though "Polowemerk Mountain" might be a possibility. Maybe you could find a Yurok speaker and get them to start a game of telephone (=Chinese whispers) with their word, in order to mimic the changes the word would go through in anglicization. (Wikipedia says that in 2013, there were no native speakers left, but there were some 400 people who had studied the language, including 17 who were conversationally fluent.)
>>>>>
>>>>> Have Yurok people made suggestions about the name of the mountain?
>>>>>
>>>> https://krcrtv.com/north-coast-news/eureka-local-news/yurok-tribe-calls-for-changing-offensive-mountain-peak-name
>>>
>>> You mean there's an Internet where I can find answers to such questions?
>>> However, that page didn't load for me. Here's another one
>>>
>>> https://lostcoastoutpost.com/2022/may/13/yurok-tribe-petitions-federal-government-change-lo/
>>>
>>> which includes a sound file. The pronunciation is not, in my opinion, anything
>>> like what the spelling suggests,
>
>> I find it remarkably close to what I'd make of the spelling without
>> further instruction.
>
> Huh. I can't hear the e in `ue

Agreed.

> or the final kw,

I perceived something after the k, but not something I could classify or
would seem important to a speaker of German or English. That's the
problem. But there seemed to be fewer issues of that kind than I
expected.

> and the e in "merkw" sound like /a/
> to me.

That it didn't. IIRC, it sounded more or less like English "merk" to me.

> I shouldn't have said "not anything like", though.

--
I'm a character actor - which they call actors who are not gorgeous,
or young.
-- Saul Rubinek

Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkw

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Subject: Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkw
From: gramma...@verizon.net (Peter T. Daniels)
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 by: Peter T. Daniels - Thu, 19 May 2022 15:00 UTC

On Thursday, May 19, 2022 at 9:50:04 AM UTC-4, Quinn C wrote:
> * Jerry Friedman:
> > On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 10:33:50 AM UTC-6, Quinn C wrote:
> >> * Jerry Friedman:
> >>>> On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 8:02:47 AM UTC-7, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> >>>>> On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 11:20:06 PM UTC-6, dklei...@gmail.com wrote:

> >>>>> > We want to change the name of Squaw Tit Mountain to pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkw
> >>>>> > (Yurok for maple). This is something that will terrify the average English speaker. I am unsure how to say it (I have neglected my Yurok phonology). I
> >>>>> > imagine "pkw" is a labialized co-articulated stop and "'" is a glottal stop. But two glottal stops? I imagine people will say something like "polowemerk"
> >>> https://lostcoastoutpost.com/2022/may/13/yurok-tribe-petitions-federal-government-change-lo/
> >>> which includes a sound file. The pronunciation is not, in my opinion, anything
> >>> like what the spelling suggests,
> >> I find it remarkably close to what I'd make of the spelling without
> >> further instruction.
> > Huh. I can't hear the e in `ue
>
> Agreed.
>
> > or the final kw,
>
> I perceived something after the k, but not something I could classify or
> would seem important to a speaker of German or English. That's the
> problem. But there seemed to be fewer issues of that kind than I
> expected.

It's not necessarily a separate sound as in Latin/English qu. It may
be indicating that the k is lip-rounded.

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