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interests / alt.usage.english / Re: CRT in math testbooks

SubjectAuthor
* CRT in math testbooksPeter T. Daniels
+* Re: CRT in math testbooksspains...@gmail.com
|`* Re: CRT in math testbooksKerr-Mudd, John
| `- Re: CRT in math testbooksQuinn C
+* Re: CRT in math testbooksPeter T. Daniels
|`- Re: CRT in math testbooksAdam Funk
+* Re: CRT in math testbooksTony Cooper
|+* Re: CRT in math testbooksPeter Moylan
||+* Re: CRT in math testbooksLewis
|||`* Re: CRT in math testbooksPeter Moylan
||| +* Re: CRT in math testbooksRichard Heathfield
||| |`- Re: CRT in math testbooksPeter T. Daniels
||| +* Re: CRT in math testbookslar3ryca
||| |`* Re: CRT in math testbooksPeter Moylan
||| | +* Re: CRT in math testbooksSilvano
||| | |+- Re: CRT in math testbooksAthel Cornish-Bowden
||| | |`* Re: CRT in math testbooksPeter Moylan
||| | | +- Re: CRT in math testbookslar3ryca
||| | | `* Re: CRT in math testbooksLewis
||| | |  `* Re: CRT in math testbooksPeter Moylan
||| | |   `- Re: CRT in math testbooksSam Plusnet
||| | `- Re: CRT in math testbooksAthel Cornish-Bowden
||| +* Re: CRT in math testbooksLewis
||| |+* Re: CRT in math testbooksPeter Moylan
||| ||`* Re: CRT in math testbooksAthel Cornish-Bowden
||| || `- Re: CRT in math testbooksLewis
||| |`* Re: CRT in math testbooksTony Cooper
||| | +* Re: CRT in math testbooksRichard Heathfield
||| | |+* Re: CRT in math testbooksStefan Ram
||| | ||`* Re: CRT in math testbooksSnidely
||| | || `- Re: CRT in math testbooksCDB
||| | |`* Re: CRT in math testbooksPeter Moylan
||| | | +- Re: CRT in math testbooksRichard Heathfield
||| | | +- Re: CRT in math testbooksTony Cooper
||| | | `* Re: CRT in math testbooksLewis
||| | |  `* Re: CRT in math testbooksTony Cooper
||| | |   `- Re: CRT in math testbooksLewis
||| | +* Re: CRT in math testbooksLewis
||| | |`* Re: CRT in math testbooksTony Cooper
||| | | `* Re: CRT in math testbooksLewis
||| | |  +* Re: CRT in math testbooksTony Cooper
||| | |  |`* Re: CRT in math testbooksLewis
||| | |  | `* Re: CRT in math testbooksTony Cooper
||| | |  |  +- Re: CRT in math testbooksCDB
||| | |  |  `* Re: CRT in math testbooksLewis
||| | |  |   `* Re: CRT in math testbooksAdam Funk
||| | |  |    `- Re: CRT in math testbooksLewis
||| | |  `* Re: CRT in math testbooksPeter T. Daniels
||| | |   `- Re: CRT in math testbooksAdam Funk
||| | `* Re: CRT in math testbooksPeter Moylan
||| |  +* Re: CRT in math testbooksTony Cooper
||| |  |`- Re: CRT in math testbooksPeter T. Daniels
||| |  `* Re: CRT in math testbooksPeter T. Daniels
||| |   +* Re: CRT in math testbooksTony Cooper
||| |   |`* Re: CRT in math testbooksPeter T. Daniels
||| |   | `* Re: CRT in math testbooksTony Cooper
||| |   |  +* Re: CRT in math testbooksSam Plusnet
||| |   |  |+* Re: CRT in math testbooksPeter T. Daniels
||| |   |  ||`- Re: CRT in math testbooksTony Cooper
||| |   |  |`- Re: CRT in math testbooksTony Cooper
||| |   |  `* Re: CRT in math testbooksSnidely
||| |   |   `* Re: CRT in math testbooksPeter Moylan
||| |   |    `* Re: CRT in math testbooksTony Cooper
||| |   |     `* Re: CRT in math testbooksRuud Harmsen
||| |   |      +* Re: CRT in math testbooksPeter Moylan
||| |   |      |`* Re: CRT in math testbooksAdam Funk
||| |   |      | +* Re: CRT in math testbooksQuinn C
||| |   |      | |`* Re: CRT in math testbooksRuud Harmsen
||| |   |      | | +- Re: CRT in math testbookslar3ryca
||| |   |      | | `- Re: CRT in math testbooksQuinn C
||| |   |      | `* Re: CRT in math testbooksPeter Moylan
||| |   |      |  `- Re: CRT in math testbooksQuinn C
||| |   |      +* Re: CRT in math testbooksJanet
||| |   |      |+* Re: CRT in math testbooksCDB
||| |   |      ||+* Re: CRT in math testbooksTony Cooper
||| |   |      |||+* Re: CRT in math testbooksRich Ulrich
||| |   |      ||||`* Re: CRT in math testbooksTony Cooper
||| |   |      |||| +* Re: CRT in math testbooksAdam Funk
||| |   |      |||| |`* Re: CRT in math testbooksKerr-Mudd, John
||| |   |      |||| | `- Re: CRT in math testbooksAdam Funk
||| |   |      |||| `* Re: CRT in math testbooksPeter Moylan
||| |   |      ||||  `* Re: CRT in math testbooksTony Cooper
||| |   |      ||||   `- Re: CRT in math testbooksRich Ulrich
||| |   |      |||`* Re: CRT in math testbooksQuinn C
||| |   |      ||| +* Re: CRT in math testbooksbil...@shaw.ca
||| |   |      ||| |`* Re: CRT in math testbooksQuinn C
||| |   |      ||| | +* Re: CRT in math testbooksCDB
||| |   |      ||| | |+* Re: CRT in math testbooksQuinn C
||| |   |      ||| | ||`- Re: CRT in math testbooksCDB
||| |   |      ||| | |`* Re: CRT in math testbooksMark Brader
||| |   |      ||| | | `* Re: CRT in math testbooksCDB
||| |   |      ||| | |  `* Re: CRT in math testbooksMark Brader
||| |   |      ||| | |   +- Re: CRT in math testbooksQuinn C
||| |   |      ||| | |   +* Re: CRT in math testbooksRuud Harmsen
||| |   |      ||| | |   |`- Re: CRT in math testbooksruudhar...@gmail.com
||| |   |      ||| | |   +* Re: CRT in math testbooksCDB
||| |   |      ||| | |   |`* Re: CRT in math testbooksMark Brader
||| |   |      ||| | |   | `- Re: CRT in math testbooksCDB
||| |   |      ||| | |   `- Re: CRT in math testbooksJ. J. Lodder
||| |   |      ||| | `- Re: CRT in math testbooksbil...@shaw.ca
||| |   |      ||| `* Re: CRT in math testbooksAdam Funk
||| |   |      ||+* Re: CRT in math testbooksRuud Harmsen
||| |   |      ||`* Re: CRT in math testbooksSam Plusnet
||| |   |      |`- Re: CRT in math testbooksRuud Harmsen
||| |   |      +* Re: CRT in math testbooksPeter T. Daniels
||| |   |      `- Re: CRT in math testbooksTony Cooper
||| |   `* Re: CRT in math testbooksPeter Moylan
||| `* Re: CRT in math testbooksKen Blake
||`* Re: CRT in math testbooksPeter T. Daniels
|+- Re: CRT in math testbooksLewis
|+* Re: CRT in math testbooksPeter T. Daniels
|`* Re: CRT in math testbooksDingbat
`* Re: CRT in math testbooksQuinn C

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Re: CRT in math testbooks

<0e4fa6b9-afb1-49a7-9dec-b9a8bbd7e886n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: CRT in math testbooks
From: gramma...@verizon.net (Peter T. Daniels)
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 by: Peter T. Daniels - Sun, 15 May 2022 20:10 UTC

On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 3:49:31 PM UTC-4, Anders D. Nygaard wrote:
> Den 15-05-2022 kl. 01:20 skrev Ken Blake:
> > On Sat, 14 May 2022 16:50:54 -0600, lar3ryca <la...@invalid.ca> wrote:
> >> On 2022-05-14 15:08, Ken Blake wrote:

> >>> [coffee] I want zero teaspoons of sugar and zero of those tiny
> >>> plastic servings of half and half (or any other milk or cream)
> >> Me too. I also dislike 'flavoured coffee'.
> > Me too. I dislike ("hate" might be a better word) flavored coffee,
> > flavored tea, flavored bagels, flavored cream cheese, etc.
>
> Do you prefer all your foods to be bland?

I figured he'd contracted Long Covid decades before anyone else.

Re: CRT in math testbooks

<p9q28hl4g313d6hk1mivj21jkjugsatk1t@4ax.com>

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From: Ken...@invalid.news.com (Ken Blake)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: CRT in math testbooks
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 by: Ken Blake - Sun, 15 May 2022 20:59 UTC

On Sun, 15 May 2022 21:49:27 +0200, "Anders D. Nygaard"
<news2012adn@gmail.com> wrote:

>Den 15-05-2022 kl. 01:20 skrev Ken Blake:
>> On Sat, 14 May 2022 16:50:54 -0600, lar3ryca <larry@invalid.ca> wrote:
>>> On 2022-05-14 15:08, Ken Blake wrote:
>>>> [coffee] I want zero teaspoons of sugar and zero of those tiny
>>>> plastic servings of half and half (or any other milk or cream)
>>>
>>> Me too. I also dislike 'flavoured coffee'.
>>
>> Me too. I dislike ("hate" might be a better word) flavored coffee,
>> flavored tea, flavored bagels, flavored cream cheese, etc.
>
>Do you prefer all your foods to be bland?

No, not at all. But I prefer them to be traditional, to have the taste
I'm accustomed to.

Re: CRT in math testbooks

<1phl4a6otkppu.dlg@mid.crommatograph.info>

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From: lispamat...@crommatograph.info (Quinn C)
Subject: Re: CRT in math testbooks
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
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 by: Quinn C - Mon, 16 May 2022 00:18 UTC

* CDB:

> On 5/13/2022 12:14 PM, Quinn C wrote:
>> Peter T. Daniels:
>>> Quinn C wrote:
>>>> Peter T. Daniels:
>>>>> Quinn C wrote:
>>>>>> Peter T. Daniels:
>>>>>>> CDB wrote:
>>>>>>>> Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>>>>>>>>> CDB wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Sam Plusnet wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Richard Heathfield wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sam Plusnet wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> CDB wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sam Plusnet wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> CDB wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When he was a young man courting the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> girls, he played him a waiting game.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Courting... Tennis, or legal?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Courting, tout court. So to speak. He'd let
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the old earth take a couple of whirls.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> D@mn hard to stop it doing that - unless...
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0043456/
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://xkcd.com/162/
>>>>>>>>>>> And they say romance is dead.
>>>>>>>>>> It's all fun until somebody throws up.
>>>>>>>>> Somebody didn't look at the roll-over text.
>>>>>>>> Then how did anybody think of the question?
>>>>>>> Seems a fairly obvious concern with a young person
>>>>>>> spinning around for a long time.
>>>>>> But not with an older person?
>>>>> See who's depicted in the drawing.
>
>>>> But why did you find the age relevant to your comment - as
>>>> opposed to, for example, gender? Grice, you know.
>
>>> In your experience, what sort of person spins around until they
>>> fall down or throw up? Gender has nothing to do with it, since
>>> little boys, little girls, and presumably little inters also do it
>>> for fun.
>
>> Yes - which means people not old enough to talk like the person in
>> the picture, who I would assume to be in the 16-30 range. But ok,
>> they can both fall under "young person".
>
>> Let's also put aside the mixing of gender and sex terms.
>
>>>>>> Are we all supposed to get used to it, without anti-twisties
>>>>>> training?
>>>>> Dervishes do it.
>
>>>> Not all that representative for older people in general.
>
>>> One begins to see why some people say they don't want to play with
>>> you any more. You're waxing Cooperish.
>
>> Really? You've now given a reasonable explanation for your
>> linguistic choice: you wanted to express that an older person would
>> never or almost never do that in the first place, so they're out of
>> scope.
>
>> I might disagree with that, but it's not an absurd position. OTOH,
>> it wasn't trivially obvious to me, so I asked. The latter seems to be
>> where the disruption of communication originated.
>
>> And to address what you might be alluding to: Even if it's a rare
>> occurrence, I could disagree with reinforcing the stereotype that
>> older people don't spin, but that's not an actively harmful
>> stereotype in our society, so not a big deal, and that's not why I
>> commented.
>
> It's because, when old people get down, they can't get up.

There is space between "young people" and those "old people" you
describe. I'm living in that space, after all.

I found it pretty shocking when I talked about sitting on the floor in
Japan, and various Germans in their 50s remarked that they'd have
difficulties getting up again. In your 50s, that should not be an issue
unless you have some serious condition. I can't get up without putting
either a hand or a knee down on the floor in the process, and don't feel
great about that fact.

--
Quinn C
My pronouns are they/them
(or other gender-neutral ones)

Re: CRT in math testbooks

<t7r5dzodvsvp.dlg@mid.crommatograph.info>

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From: lispamat...@crommatograph.info (Quinn C)
Subject: Re: CRT in math testbooks
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 by: Quinn C - Mon, 16 May 2022 00:18 UTC

* Peter Moylan:

> On 15/05/22 13:12, lar3ryca wrote:
>>
>> I have only had my coffee pre-sugared at one restaurant chain; Tim
>> Horton's. That was back in the years when I took sugar in my coffee.
>> When I ordered it, I was asked if I wanted cream and sugar, and I
>> answered "Just sugar, thanks", assuming that they would supply one
>> or more packets of sugar.
>>
>> When I got it, there was no sugar packet, and I asked for it. She
>> informed me that she had already put sugar in. So I sat down and
>> took a sip, only to discover that she had sugared it WAY beyond what
>> I would have done. I got another cup, and a packet of sugar, with no
>> extra charge.
>>
>> From that day on, up until I started drinking it black, I made sure
>> to tell them I wanted to add it myself.
>
> I have never had that problem here, except at the places that sell
> coffee in disposable containers, where you don't expect decent coffee
> anyway. In a sit-down cafe, the milk (not cream) and sugar are on the
> table, and you measure out your own desired amount.

I don't think that's a viable distinction here. Almost any cafe would
sell you coffee in a disposable container if you want it to go - and why
the hell would they forgo that big chunk of the market - and ignoring
pandemic rules, almost every cafe has some room to sit down where you
can get your coffee in a ceramic cup instead.

There'll be differences in how much of one or the other type of
customers a shop has, with chains relying more on to go customers, but
Starbucks is also one of the largest providers of Wifi.

> Also, not all milks are equal. Some people take only low-fat milk in
> their coffee. My wife will refuse anything except soy milk. But I don't
> know any Australians who could stomach that imitation powdered milk that
> seems to be so common in American junk food outlets.

Maybe you mean plant-based creamer? I've not been to the US recently,
but I haven't seen it in a food outlet in a long time. It's much more
characteristic for catered coffee at conferences and business meetings,
and especially in Japan, where more people are lactose intolerant, and
the biggest brand of the stuff is aptly named Creap.

--
If you tell the person the etymology of "fish," they’ll have good
facts for a day. If you teach them to look up the etymology of the
word "fish," they’ll have facts for a lifetime.
-- Lauren Gawne

Re: CRT in math testbooks

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From: pet...@pmoylan.org.invalid (Peter Moylan)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: CRT in math testbooks
Date: Mon, 16 May 2022 11:18:40 +1000
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 by: Peter Moylan - Mon, 16 May 2022 01:18 UTC

On 16/05/22 05:49, Anders D. Nygaard wrote:
> Den 15-05-2022 kl. 01:20 skrev Ken Blake:
>> On Sat, 14 May 2022 16:50:54 -0600, lar3ryca <larry@invalid.ca>
>> wrote:
>>> On 2022-05-14 15:08, Ken Blake wrote:
>>>> [coffee] I want zero teaspoons of sugar and zero of those tiny
>>>> plastic servings of half and half (or any other milk or cream)
>>>
>>> Me too. I also dislike 'flavoured coffee'.
>>
>> Me too. I dislike ("hate" might be a better word) flavored coffee,
>> flavored tea, flavored bagels, flavored cream cheese, etc.
>
> Do you prefer all your foods to be bland?

I like to have some control over where the flavour is added.

Yesterday I wanted to buy a packet of rolled oats. On the supermarket
shelves I found lots of packets of oats with various sugary stuff added.
The packet that contained only oats was hidden down on a low shelf. I
hate it when that happens.

In the case of coffee, I like coffee that tastes like coffee.

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

Re: CRT in math testbooks

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From: tonycoop...@gmail.com (Tony Cooper)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: CRT in math testbooks
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 by: Tony Cooper - Mon, 16 May 2022 03:21 UTC

On Sun, 15 May 2022 20:18:54 -0400, Quinn C
<lispamateur@crommatograph.info> wrote:

>* Peter Moylan:
>
>> On 15/05/22 13:12, lar3ryca wrote:
>>>
>>> I have only had my coffee pre-sugared at one restaurant chain; Tim
>>> Horton's. That was back in the years when I took sugar in my coffee.
>>> When I ordered it, I was asked if I wanted cream and sugar, and I
>>> answered "Just sugar, thanks", assuming that they would supply one
>>> or more packets of sugar.
>>>
>>> When I got it, there was no sugar packet, and I asked for it. She
>>> informed me that she had already put sugar in. So I sat down and
>>> took a sip, only to discover that she had sugared it WAY beyond what
>>> I would have done. I got another cup, and a packet of sugar, with no
>>> extra charge.
>>>
>>> From that day on, up until I started drinking it black, I made sure
>>> to tell them I wanted to add it myself.
>>
>> I have never had that problem here, except at the places that sell
>> coffee in disposable containers, where you don't expect decent coffee
>> anyway. In a sit-down cafe, the milk (not cream) and sugar are on the
>> table, and you measure out your own desired amount.
>
>I don't think that's a viable distinction here. Almost any cafe would
>sell you coffee in a disposable container if you want it to go - and why
>the hell would they forgo that big chunk of the market - and ignoring
>pandemic rules, almost every cafe has some room to sit down where you
>can get your coffee in a ceramic cup instead.
>
>There'll be differences in how much of one or the other type of
>customers a shop has, with chains relying more on to go customers, but
>Starbucks is also one of the largest providers of Wifi.
>
>> Also, not all milks are equal. Some people take only low-fat milk in
>> their coffee. My wife will refuse anything except soy milk. But I don't
>> know any Australians who could stomach that imitation powdered milk that
>> seems to be so common in American junk food outlets.
>
>Maybe you mean plant-based creamer? I've not been to the US recently,
>but I haven't seen it in a food outlet in a long time.

I rarely see the packets of powdered "cream". What I see most
commonly available is a liquid "non-dairy creamer" in a tiny cup with
a peel-off lid. Coffee-mate is the most popular brand.

--

Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida

I read and post to this group as a form of entertainment.

Re: CRT in math testbooks

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From: nos...@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: CRT in math testbooks
Date: Mon, 16 May 2022 10:23:27 +0200
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 by: J. J. Lodder - Mon, 16 May 2022 08:23 UTC

Madhu <enometh@meer.net> wrote:

> * (J. J. Lodder) <1przxxm.1llec1ncv2hd1N%nospam@de-ster.demon.nl> :
> Wrote on Sun, 15 May 2022 12:54:29 +0200:
>
> > Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On Sat, 14 May 2022 17:25:40 -0400, Tony Cooper
> >> <tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >We use a Keurig coffee maker that uses pods. We buy Gevalia
> >> >(Amazon, ordered one day, delivered the next) pods. A bit more
> >> >expensive than using ground coffee, but worth it to us in
> >> >convenience.
>
> (Were Keruigs around 20 years ago in the US? I don't think I saw them or
> never noticed)
>
> >> Keurig coffee makers are very popular and I understand the
> >> convenience. However personally I avoid them. As far as I'm
> >> concerned, two of the important things in the quality of the coffee
> >> are how long ago it was roasted, and how long ago it was ground.
> >
> > From Dutch 'keurig', they explain. They used the wrong dictionary,
> > and found 'keurig' as meaning: 'excellent'.
> >
> > Actually 'keurig' means something like tidy, neat. It may be used in
> > a disparaging way, for dull, unobjectionable, or petit-bourgeois,
> the smaller-burjoisy?

Imagine 'keurig' as an extemely timid version of Mrs. Bucket,
without any of her extravagances.

Jan

Re: CRT in math testbooks

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From: adm...@127.0.0.1 (Kerr-Mudd, John)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: CRT in math testbooks
Date: Mon, 16 May 2022 09:43:20 +0100
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 by: Kerr-Mudd, John - Mon, 16 May 2022 08:43 UTC

On Sun, 15 May 2022 06:51:44 -0700 (PDT)
"Peter T. Daniels" <grammatim@verizon.net> wrote:

> On Saturday, May 14, 2022 at 11:45:34 PM UTC-4, Peter Moylan wrote:
> > On 15/05/22 13:12, lar3ryca wrote:
> > >
> > > I have only had my coffee pre-sugared at one restaurant chain; Tim
> > > Horton's. That was back in the years when I took sugar in my coffee.
> > > When I ordered it, I was asked if I wanted cream and sugar, and I
> > > answered "Just sugar, thanks", assuming that they would supply one
> > > or more packets of sugar.
> > >
> > > When I got it, there was no sugar packet, and I asked for it. She
> > > informed me that she had already put sugar in. So I sat down and
> > > took a sip, only to discover that she had sugared it WAY beyond what
> > > I would have done. I got another cup, and a packet of sugar, with no
> > > extra charge.
> > >
> > > From that day on, up until I started drinking it black, I made sure
> > > to tell them I wanted to add it myself.
> > I have never had that problem here, except at the places that sell
> > coffee in disposable containers, where you don't expect decent coffee
> > anyway. In a sit-down cafe, the milk (not cream) and sugar are on the
> > table, and you measure out your own desired amount.
>
> We haven't had cream (not milk) pitchers on the tables in years, because
> germs -- or most likely, because of the pill-tampering episode when some
> sort of toxin was introduced into bottles of Tylenol on drugstore shelves.
>
> Similarly there used to be sugar shakers, or bowls of sugar with spoon, or
> piles of sugar cubes; more likely the double cubes that were 1 tsp. Then
> the latter came wrapped in paper. Now sugar and a variety of sugar substitutes
> are in 1-tsp. paper packets (BrE sachets) in a sugar bowl on the table.

IME in the UK the packets (more like tubes) of sugar we have contain a maximum of half a tsp.
I nee^w wan^w *need* 4 to a cup of coffee.

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

Re: CRT in math testbooks

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From: enom...@meer.net (Madhu)
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Subject: Re: CRT in math testbooks
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 by: Madhu - Mon, 16 May 2022 12:09 UTC

* lar3ryca <t5oeqm$veq$1 @dont-email.me> :
Wrote on Sat, 14 May 2022 08:37:09 -0600:

[CDB: thank you very much for remembering Floyd Davidson.]

> I still have many saved posts from the last century that I encounter
> now and then. Had a good chuckle just yesterday, while looking for the
> one from Floyd, when I found one from Brian J. Goggin about Starbucks.

If these are plain article files, or in a say mbox format, would you
mind sharing them? I imagine they are automatically public domain, and
have some vague feeling that having a few more copies on harddisks
(which are not on google servers) would be desirable.

Re: CRT in math testbooks

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Subject: Re: CRT in math testbooks
From: gramma...@verizon.net (Peter T. Daniels)
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 by: Peter T. Daniels - Mon, 16 May 2022 14:10 UTC

On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 9:18:52 PM UTC-4, Peter Moylan wrote:

> Yesterday I wanted to buy a packet of rolled oats. On the supermarket
> shelves I found lots of packets of oats with various sugary stuff added.
> The packet that contained only oats was hidden down on a low shelf. I
> hate it when that happens.

That's odd. Our oatmeal (as packaged by Quaker Oats and imitated by
all its competitors) comes in a cardboard cylinder, typically one pound
(~ 500 g), instantly recognizable and inexpensive. Two varieties --
regular and "instant." The latter seems to be milled slightly smaller and
cooks in 1 minute (regular takes 3), resulting in what I think you call
"porridge." (Just water [2 : 1 in volume water : oats] and an optional
dash of salt.) There are lots of varieties of flavored oatmeal products,
but they come in single-serving paper packets (BrE sachets?) in boxes
of 8 or a dozen and are a lot more expensive. The cylinders are probably
on lower shelves both because they're bigger and because the boxed
stuff is more profitable.

Re: CRT in math testbooks

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Subject: Re: CRT in math testbooks
From: gramma...@verizon.net (Peter T. Daniels)
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 by: Peter T. Daniels - Mon, 16 May 2022 14:19 UTC

On Monday, May 16, 2022 at 4:43:24 AM UTC-4, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
> On Sun, 15 May 2022 06:51:44 -0700 (PDT)
> "Peter T. Daniels" <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
> > On Saturday, May 14, 2022 at 11:45:34 PM UTC-4, Peter Moylan wrote:

> > > I have never had that problem here, except at the places that sell
> > > coffee in disposable containers, where you don't expect decent coffee
> > > anyway. In a sit-down cafe, the milk (not cream) and sugar are on the
> > > table, and you measure out your own desired amount.
> > We haven't had cream (not milk) pitchers on the tables in years, because
> > germs -- or most likely, because of the pill-tampering episode when some
> > sort of toxin was introduced into bottles of Tylenol on drugstore shelves.

Before then, you could just unscrew the caps of OTC pill bottles. Now
they're hermetically sealed.
> > Similarly there used to be sugar shakers, or bowls of sugar with spoon, or
> > piles of sugar cubes; more likely the double cubes that were 1 tsp. Then
> > the latter came wrapped in paper. Now sugar and a variety of sugar substitutes
> > are in 1-tsp. paper packets (BrE sachets) in a sugar bowl on the table.
>
> IME in the UK the packets (more like tubes) of sugar we have contain a maximum of half a tsp.
> I nee^w wan^w *need* 4 to a cup of coffee.

I think your teaspoons are bigger than ours, but "tsp." is a fixed
amount, 1/6 fl. oz., probably set many decades ago by some
predecessor of the FDA -- the US Food and Drug Administration
-- such as the "Penna. Dept. of Agriculture," whose regulations
were followed by the foods sold in NYC in the 1950s (when I
was first reading labels), because they were the most stringent
in the area, and ultimately perhaps going back to Fanny Farmer
(who was a real person), whose very popular cookbook introduced
the notion of exact measurements in recipes (making Mrs. Beeston
quite hard to follow!).

Re: CRT in math testbooks

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Subject: Re: CRT in math testbooks
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 by: Ken Blake - Mon, 16 May 2022 16:02 UTC

On Sun, 15 May 2022 20:18:54 -0400, Quinn C
<lispamateur@crommatograph.info> wrote:

>Maybe you mean plant-based creamer? I've not been to the US recently,
>but I haven't seen it in a food outlet in a long time. It's much more
>characteristic for catered coffee at conferences and business meetings,
>and especially in Japan, where more people are lactose intolerant, and
>the biggest brand of the stuff is aptly named Creap.

I remember seeing a fish store somewhere in China with a sign on the
window advertising "crap." I assumed they meant "carp."

Re: CRT in math testbooks

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From: adm...@127.0.0.1 (Kerr-Mudd, John)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: CRT in math testbooks
Date: Mon, 16 May 2022 17:39:29 +0100
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 by: Kerr-Mudd, John - Mon, 16 May 2022 16:39 UTC

On Mon, 16 May 2022 07:19:49 -0700 (PDT)
"Peter T. Daniels" <grammatim@verizon.net> wrote:

> On Monday, May 16, 2022 at 4:43:24 AM UTC-4, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
> > On Sun, 15 May 2022 06:51:44 -0700 (PDT)
> > "Peter T. Daniels" <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
[]
> > > Similarly there used to be sugar shakers, or bowls of sugar with spoon, or
> > > piles of sugar cubes; more likely the double cubes that were 1 tsp. Then
> > > the latter came wrapped in paper. Now sugar and a variety of sugar substitutes
> > > are in 1-tsp. paper packets (BrE sachets) in a sugar bowl on the table.
> >
> > IME in the UK the packets (more like tubes) of sugar we have contain a maximum of half a tsp.
> > I nee^w wan^w *need* 4 to a cup of coffee.
>
> I think your teaspoons are bigger than ours, but "tsp." is a fixed

Good lard! Are US sugar cubes different as well?
But the US tsp might explain why there's so little in each sachet. I presume the idea is to cut down on actual sugar usage so the US can go on using corn syrup in everything else.
--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

Re: CRT in math testbooks

<4qarwm9qlsdi.dlg@mid.crommatograph.info>

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From: lispamat...@crommatograph.info (Quinn C)
Subject: Re: CRT in math testbooks
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 by: Quinn C - Mon, 16 May 2022 17:15 UTC

* Ken Blake:

> On Sun, 15 May 2022 20:18:54 -0400, Quinn C
> <lispamateur@crommatograph.info> wrote:
>
>>Maybe you mean plant-based creamer? I've not been to the US recently,
>>but I haven't seen it in a food outlet in a long time. It's much more
>>characteristic for catered coffee at conferences and business meetings,
>>and especially in Japan, where more people are lactose intolerant, and
>>the biggest brand of the stuff is aptly named Creap.
>
> I remember seeing a fish store somewhere in China with a sign on the
> window advertising "crap." I assumed they meant "carp."

Yes, I believe that's a common typo on Chinese menus.

The brand name "Creap" is a different story: the bad connotations of the
name for English speakers (at least for me: because it sounds like
"creep", not because it looks like "crap") were either not noticed, or
deemed irrelevant for selling the product in Japan.

I just recently heard about an ad campaign for a hair removal chain in
Japan that used the tagline "Enjoy the girl". Apparently, the idea
behind that was more like what I would express as "enjoy being a girl".
After criticism, they changed it to "Enjoy, girls", which still doesn't
make much sense to English speakers, but at least doesn't sound like sex
trafficking.

All the ads mentioned here have unintended sexual connotations:
<https://www.barrettish.com/log/post/why-japan-has-strange-english-ads>

--
Quinn C
My pronouns are they/them
(or other gender-neutral ones)

Re: CRT in math testbooks

<5n1tyl3bjuve$.dlg@mid.crommatograph.info>

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Subject: Re: CRT in math testbooks
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 by: Quinn C - Mon, 16 May 2022 17:18 UTC

* Peter Moylan:

> On 16/05/22 05:49, Anders D. Nygaard wrote:
>> Den 15-05-2022 kl. 01:20 skrev Ken Blake:
>>> On Sat, 14 May 2022 16:50:54 -0600, lar3ryca <larry@invalid.ca>
>>> wrote:
>>>> On 2022-05-14 15:08, Ken Blake wrote:
>>>>> [coffee] I want zero teaspoons of sugar and zero of those tiny
>>>>> plastic servings of half and half (or any other milk or cream)
>>>>
>>>> Me too. I also dislike 'flavoured coffee'.
>>>
>>> Me too. I dislike ("hate" might be a better word) flavored coffee,
>>> flavored tea, flavored bagels, flavored cream cheese, etc.
>>
>> Do you prefer all your foods to be bland?
>
> I like to have some control over where the flavour is added.
>
> Yesterday I wanted to buy a packet of rolled oats. On the supermarket
> shelves I found lots of packets of oats with various sugary stuff added.
> The packet that contained only oats was hidden down on a low shelf. I
> hate it when that happens.

Those are visibly so different here that I don't find it difficult to
ignore the one (comes in a box) when looking for the other (comes in a
paper or plastic bag).

> In the case of coffee, I like coffee that tastes like coffee.

The flavored things mentioned above to me are nice for a change
sometimes, but not as the basic variety of the item I use every day.

One exception to the above rule is Earl Grey tea, which I can have quite
regularly.

When I buy bagels, I usually buy 6 with poppy. Yesterday, I added two
blueberry ones. Not sure if poppy or blueberry or both count as
"flavored bagel" for Ken. Poppy and sesame are the "basic flavors" here
and much more popular than plain.

--
The precise meaning of the expression "hey, ho" is lost in antiquity.
-- Sam the Eagle

Re: CRT in math testbooks

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From: the...@panix.com (Ted Heise)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: CRT in math testbooks
Date: Mon, 16 May 2022 19:03:51 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: My own, such as it is
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 by: Ted Heise - Mon, 16 May 2022 19:03 UTC

On Mon, 16 May 2022 13:15:18 -0400,
Quinn C <lispamateur@crommatograph.info> wrote:
> * Ken Blake:
> > On Sun, 15 May 2022 20:18:54 -0400, Quinn C
> > <lispamateur@crommatograph.info> wrote:
> >
> >>Maybe you mean plant-based creamer? I've not been to the US
> >>recently, but I haven't seen it in a food outlet in a long
> >>time. It's much more characteristic for catered coffee at
> >>conferences and business meetings, and especially in Japan,
> >>where more people are lactose intolerant, and the biggest
> >>brand of the stuff is aptly named Creap.
> >
> > I remember seeing a fish store somewhere in China with a sign
> > on the window advertising "crap." I assumed they meant "carp."
>
> Yes, I believe that's a common typo on Chinese menus.
>
> The brand name "Creap" is a different story: the bad
> connotations of the name for English speakers (at least for me:
> because it sounds like "creep", not because it looks like
> "crap") were either not noticed, or deemed irrelevant for
> selling the product in Japan.
>
> I just recently heard about an ad campaign for a hair removal
> chain in Japan that used the tagline "Enjoy the girl".
> Apparently, the idea behind that was more like what I would
> express as "enjoy being a girl". After criticism, they changed
> it to "Enjoy, girls", which still doesn't make much sense to
> English speakers, but at least doesn't sound like sex
> trafficking.
>
> All the ads mentioned here have unintended sexual connotations:
> <https://www.barrettish.com/log/post/why-japan-has-strange-english-ads>

I collected a number of these, but my favorite was the second hand
kids clothing store in Okinawa that had the sign "Used Babies"
over the door.

--
Ted Heise <theise@panix.com> West Lafayette, IN, USA

Re: CRT in math testbooks

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From: tonycoop...@gmail.com (Tony Cooper)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: CRT in math testbooks
Date: Mon, 16 May 2022 15:37:07 -0400
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 by: Tony Cooper - Mon, 16 May 2022 19:37 UTC

On Mon, 16 May 2022 19:03:51 -0000 (UTC), Ted Heise <theise@panix.com>
wrote:

>On Mon, 16 May 2022 13:15:18 -0400,
> Quinn C <lispamateur@crommatograph.info> wrote:
>> * Ken Blake:
>> > On Sun, 15 May 2022 20:18:54 -0400, Quinn C
>> > <lispamateur@crommatograph.info> wrote:
>> >
>> >>Maybe you mean plant-based creamer? I've not been to the US
>> >>recently, but I haven't seen it in a food outlet in a long
>> >>time. It's much more characteristic for catered coffee at
>> >>conferences and business meetings, and especially in Japan,
>> >>where more people are lactose intolerant, and the biggest
>> >>brand of the stuff is aptly named Creap.
>> >
>> > I remember seeing a fish store somewhere in China with a sign
>> > on the window advertising "crap." I assumed they meant "carp."
>>
>> Yes, I believe that's a common typo on Chinese menus.
>>
>> The brand name "Creap" is a different story: the bad
>> connotations of the name for English speakers (at least for me:
>> because it sounds like "creep", not because it looks like
>> "crap") were either not noticed, or deemed irrelevant for
>> selling the product in Japan.
>>
>> I just recently heard about an ad campaign for a hair removal
>> chain in Japan that used the tagline "Enjoy the girl".
>> Apparently, the idea behind that was more like what I would
>> express as "enjoy being a girl". After criticism, they changed
>> it to "Enjoy, girls", which still doesn't make much sense to
>> English speakers, but at least doesn't sound like sex
>> trafficking.
>>
>> All the ads mentioned here have unintended sexual connotations:
>> <https://www.barrettish.com/log/post/why-japan-has-strange-english-ads>
>
>I collected a number of these, but my favorite was the second hand
>kids clothing store in Okinawa that had the sign "Used Babies"
>over the door.

I have trouble picking my favorite, but it would be between:

https://photos.smugmug.com/SCENES-/i-G66nfDq/0/5eeaf0c1/X2/2009-03-12-05-X2.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-8w45KJt/0/3e515db0/X3/i-8w45KJt-X3.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-kxnwN8m/0/220dbf4a/X2/i-kxnwN8m-X2.jpg

but Brits might like this one:

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-k2tsWpK/0/56037680/X2/i-k2tsWpK-X2.jpg

--

Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida

I read and post to this group as a form of entertainment.

Re: CRT in math testbooks

<imb58hd58k14jvh2omovlmpc86v2f3f5l4@4ax.com>

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From: Ken...@invalid.news.com (Ken Blake)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: CRT in math testbooks
Date: Mon, 16 May 2022 13:33:20 -0700
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 by: Ken Blake - Mon, 16 May 2022 20:33 UTC

On Mon, 16 May 2022 13:18:02 -0400, Quinn C
<lispamateur@crommatograph.info> wrote:

>* Peter Moylan:
>
>> On 16/05/22 05:49, Anders D. Nygaard wrote:
>>> Den 15-05-2022 kl. 01:20 skrev Ken Blake:
>>>> On Sat, 14 May 2022 16:50:54 -0600, lar3ryca <larry@invalid.ca>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> On 2022-05-14 15:08, Ken Blake wrote:
>>>>>> [coffee] I want zero teaspoons of sugar and zero of those tiny
>>>>>> plastic servings of half and half (or any other milk or cream)
>>>>>
>>>>> Me too. I also dislike 'flavoured coffee'.
>>>>
>>>> Me too. I dislike ("hate" might be a better word) flavored coffee,
>>>> flavored tea, flavored bagels, flavored cream cheese, etc.
>>>
>>> Do you prefer all your foods to be bland?
>>
>> I like to have some control over where the flavour is added.
>>
>> Yesterday I wanted to buy a packet of rolled oats. On the supermarket
>> shelves I found lots of packets of oats with various sugary stuff added.
>> The packet that contained only oats was hidden down on a low shelf. I
>> hate it when that happens.
>
>Those are visibly so different here that I don't find it difficult to
>ignore the one (comes in a box) when looking for the other (comes in a
>paper or plastic bag).

I buy oats in a store that has it in a barrel that you scoop out as
much as you want and put it in a plastic bag. It doesn't come in
anything.
>
>> In the case of coffee, I like coffee that tastes like coffee.
>
>The flavored things mentioned above to me are nice for a change
>sometimes, but not as the basic variety of the item I use every day.
>
>One exception to the above rule is Earl Grey tea, which I can have quite
>regularly.

I'm not a big tea drinker (except for iced tea--just plain Lipton
tea-- which I drink almost all day long every day. There's a glass of
it sitting next to me as I'm typing this) , but I do drink it
occasionally. One kind of tea I particularly dislike is Earl Grey.

>When I buy bagels, I usually buy 6 with poppy. Yesterday, I added two
>blueberry ones. Not sure if poppy or blueberry or both count as
>"flavored bagel" for Ken.

Yes, to me both are flavored, not just plain bagels

>Poppy and sesame are the "basic flavors" here
>and much more popular than plain.

I think that almost everywhere, plain is no longer the most popular.
If the place I go to is out of plain, I'll have sesame. Yes, it's an
additional taste, but one that's mild enough that it's barely
noticeable.

My wife likes "everything" bagels, which to me are the worst of all.

Re: CRT in math testbooks

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Subject: Re: CRT in math testbooks
From: gramma...@verizon.net (Peter T. Daniels)
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 by: Peter T. Daniels - Mon, 16 May 2022 20:34 UTC

On Monday, May 16, 2022 at 12:39:29 PM UTC-4, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
> On Mon, 16 May 2022 07:19:49 -0700 (PDT)
> "Peter T. Daniels" <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > On Monday, May 16, 2022 at 4:43:24 AM UTC-4, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
> > > On Sun, 15 May 2022 06:51:44 -0700 (PDT)
> > > "Peter T. Daniels" <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
> []
> > > > Similarly there used to be sugar shakers, or bowls of sugar with spoon, or
> > > > piles of sugar cubes; more likely the double cubes that were 1 tsp. Then
> > > > the latter came wrapped in paper. Now sugar and a variety of sugar substitutes
> > > > are in 1-tsp. paper packets (BrE sachets) in a sugar bowl on the table.
> > >
> > > IME in the UK the packets (more like tubes) of sugar we have contain a maximum of half a tsp.
> > > I nee^w wan^w *need* 4 to a cup of coffee.
> >
> > I think your teaspoons are bigger than ours, but "tsp." is a fixed
> Good lard! Are US sugar cubes different as well?

I've never seen a British sugar cube. The half-tsp. ones are maybe
a centimeter on a side, but the full-tsp. ones aren't shaped like two
of those attached to each other.

> But the US tsp might explain why there's so little in each sachet. I presume the idea is to cut down on actual sugar usage so the US can go on using corn syrup in everything else.

?

Only in some commercial products.

And "No Sugar" (formerly "Diet") sodas are apparently close to outselling
the regular kind. (Which is indeed made with HFCS.)

Re: CRT in math testbooks

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From: Ken...@invalid.news.com (Ken Blake)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: CRT in math testbooks
Date: Mon, 16 May 2022 13:35:49 -0700
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 by: Ken Blake - Mon, 16 May 2022 20:35 UTC

On Mon, 16 May 2022 13:15:18 -0400, Quinn C
<lispamateur@crommatograph.info> wrote:

>* Ken Blake:
>
>> On Sun, 15 May 2022 20:18:54 -0400, Quinn C
>> <lispamateur@crommatograph.info> wrote:
>>
>>>Maybe you mean plant-based creamer? I've not been to the US recently,
>>>but I haven't seen it in a food outlet in a long time. It's much more
>>>characteristic for catered coffee at conferences and business meetings,
>>>and especially in Japan, where more people are lactose intolerant, and
>>>the biggest brand of the stuff is aptly named Creap.
>>
>> I remember seeing a fish store somewhere in China with a sign on the
>> window advertising "crap." I assumed they meant "carp."
>
>Yes, I believe that's a common typo on Chinese menus.

Perhaps, but I don't remember ever seeing it on a menu.

>
>The brand name "Creap" is a different story: the bad connotations of the
>name for English speakers (at least for me: because it sounds like
>"creep", not because it looks like "crap") were either not noticed, or
>deemed irrelevant for selling the product in Japan.
>
>I just recently heard about an ad campaign for a hair removal chain in
>Japan that used the tagline "Enjoy the girl". Apparently, the idea
>behind that was more like what I would express as "enjoy being a girl".
>After criticism, they changed it to "Enjoy, girls", which still doesn't
>make much sense to English speakers, but at least doesn't sound like sex
>trafficking.
>
>All the ads mentioned here have unintended sexual connotations:
><https://www.barrettish.com/log/post/why-japan-has-strange-english-ads>

Re: CRT in math testbooks

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From: Ken...@invalid.news.com (Ken Blake)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: CRT in math testbooks
Date: Mon, 16 May 2022 13:37:36 -0700
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 by: Ken Blake - Mon, 16 May 2022 20:37 UTC

On Mon, 16 May 2022 19:03:51 -0000 (UTC), Ted Heise <theise@panix.com>
wrote:

>On Mon, 16 May 2022 13:15:18 -0400,
> Quinn C <lispamateur@crommatograph.info> wrote:
>> * Ken Blake:
>> > On Sun, 15 May 2022 20:18:54 -0400, Quinn C
>> > <lispamateur@crommatograph.info> wrote:
>> >
>> >>Maybe you mean plant-based creamer? I've not been to the US
>> >>recently, but I haven't seen it in a food outlet in a long
>> >>time. It's much more characteristic for catered coffee at
>> >>conferences and business meetings, and especially in Japan,
>> >>where more people are lactose intolerant, and the biggest
>> >>brand of the stuff is aptly named Creap.
>> >
>> > I remember seeing a fish store somewhere in China with a sign
>> > on the window advertising "crap." I assumed they meant "carp."
>>
>> Yes, I believe that's a common typo on Chinese menus.
>>
>> The brand name "Creap" is a different story: the bad
>> connotations of the name for English speakers (at least for me:
>> because it sounds like "creep", not because it looks like
>> "crap")

It doesn't look like "crap," but to me it not only sounds like
"creep," but also looks like it.

Re: CRT in math testbooks

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 by: Sam Plusnet - Mon, 16 May 2022 21:11 UTC

On 16-May-22 20:37, Tony Cooper wrote:

> but Brits might like this one:
>
> https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-k2tsWpK/0/56037680/X2/i-k2tsWpK-X2.jpg
>
The "ICE" on the end seems superfluous.

--
Sam Plusnet

Re: CRT in math testbooks

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From: lispamat...@crommatograph.info (Quinn C)
Subject: Re: CRT in math testbooks
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 by: Quinn C - Mon, 16 May 2022 22:07 UTC

* Ken Blake:

> On Mon, 16 May 2022 13:15:18 -0400, Quinn C
> <lispamateur@crommatograph.info> wrote:
>
>>* Ken Blake:
>>
>>> On Sun, 15 May 2022 20:18:54 -0400, Quinn C
>>> <lispamateur@crommatograph.info> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Maybe you mean plant-based creamer? I've not been to the US recently,
>>>>but I haven't seen it in a food outlet in a long time. It's much more
>>>>characteristic for catered coffee at conferences and business meetings,
>>>>and especially in Japan, where more people are lactose intolerant, and
>>>>the biggest brand of the stuff is aptly named Creap.
>>>
>>> I remember seeing a fish store somewhere in China with a sign on the
>>> window advertising "crap." I assumed they meant "carp."
>>
>>Yes, I believe that's a common typo on Chinese menus.
>
> Perhaps, but I don't remember ever seeing it on a menu.

Well, "common" in the sense that there are many instances documented by
amused Internet users. Many of them encountered in China.

--
There is a whole cottage industry devoted to people who are
upset by the idea of others being outraged.
-- Washington Post 2019-09-18

Re: CRT in math testbooks

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From: pet...@pmoylan.org.invalid (Peter Moylan)
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Subject: Re: CRT in math testbooks
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 by: Peter Moylan - Tue, 17 May 2022 00:33 UTC

On 17/05/22 00:19, Peter T. Daniels wrote:

> I think your teaspoons are bigger than ours, but "tsp." is a fixed
> amount, 1/6 fl. oz., probably set many decades ago by some
> predecessor of the FDA -- the US Food and Drug Administration

A standard teaspoon here, for medical and cooking purposes, is 5 ml. I
think that's not very different from your standard [1].

This, by the way, revealed a bug in Google's unit conversion system. I typed
5 ml in fl oz
and got the answer
7.047 × 10<sup>14</sup> us fluid ounces
This left me completely mystified, until I noticed the fine print. It
said "5 cubic miles=".

In the metric system "ml" is the most common abbreviation for
"milliltre". Does it instead mean "cubic miles" in the USA?

And what sort of profession normally works with cubic miles? It sounds
like a unit with very few practical applications.

[1] A little searching has now told me that the US has two standards. As
a unit of culinary measure, one teaspoon is 1/6 fl oz. But for
nutritional labelling and medicine, the standard teaspoon is 5 ml, the
same as in the rest of the world.

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

Re: CRT in math testbooks

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Subject: Re: CRT in math testbooks
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 by: Peter Moylan - Tue, 17 May 2022 00:35 UTC

On 17/05/22 02:02, Ken Blake wrote:

> I remember seeing a fish store somewhere in China with a sign on the
> window advertising "crap." I assumed they meant "carp."

I once went to a French restaurant in Newcastle that had "lion of lamb"
on its blackboard menu.

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

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