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interests / alt.usage.english / Re: A video for Richard Heathfield

SubjectAuthor
* A video for Richard HeathfieldAthel Cornish-Bowden
+* Re: A video for Richard HeathfieldAdam Funk
|`* Re: A video for Richard HeathfieldJ. J. Lodder
| `* Re: A video for Richard HeathfieldAdam Funk
|  `- Re: A video for Richard HeathfieldJ. J. Lodder
+* Re: A video for Richard HeathfieldTony Cooper
|+* Re: A video for Richard HeathfieldPeter Moylan
||+* Re: A video for Richard HeathfieldLewis
|||`- Re: A video for Richard HeathfieldJ. J. Lodder
||+* Re: A video for Richard HeathfieldRichard Heathfield
|||`* Re: A video for Richard HeathfieldPeter Moylan
||| +- Re: A video for Richard HeathfieldRichard Heathfield
||| +- Re: A video for Richard Heathfieldlar3ryca
||| `* Re: A video for Richard HeathfieldArindam Banerjee
|||  `* Re: A video for Richard HeathfieldKerr-Mudd, John
|||   `- Re: A video for Richard HeathfieldArindam Banerjee
||+* Re: A video for Richard HeathfieldAdam Funk
|||+* Re: A video for Richard HeathfieldPeter Moylan
||||`* Re: A video for Richard Heathfieldbil...@shaw.ca
|||| +* Re: A video for Richard HeathfieldJ. J. Lodder
|||| |`- Re: A video for Richard Heathfieldbil...@shaw.ca
|||| +* Re: A video for Richard HeathfieldTony Cooper
|||| |+* Re: A video for Richard HeathfieldPeter Moylan
|||| ||`* Re: A video for Richard Heathfieldbil...@shaw.ca
|||| || +* Re: A video for Richard HeathfieldPeter Moylan
|||| || |`- Re: A video for Richard HeathfieldPeter T. Daniels
|||| || `- Re: A video for Richard Heathfieldbruce bowser
|||| |`- Re: A video for Richard HeathfieldAdam Funk
|||| `- Re: A video for Richard HeathfieldSam Plusnet
|||+* Re: A video for Richard HeathfieldJ. J. Lodder
||||`* Re: A video for Richard HeathfieldAthel Cornish-Bowden
|||| `* Re: A video for Richard HeathfieldPeter Moylan
||||  `* Re: A video for Richard HeathfieldJ. J. Lodder
||||   `- Re: A video for Richard HeathfieldAdam Funk
|||`* Re: A video for Richard HeathfieldLewis
||| `- Re: A video for Richard HeathfieldAdam Funk
||+* Re: A video for Richard HeathfieldKen Blake
|||+* Re: A video for Richard HeathfieldJ. J. Lodder
||||`* Re: A video for Richard HeathfieldPaul Wolff
|||| `- Re: A video for Richard HeathfieldJ. J. Lodder
|||`* Re: A video for Richard HeathfieldPeter Moylan
||| `* Re: A video for Richard HeathfieldAthel Cornish-Bowden
|||  +- Re: A video for Richard HeathfieldArindam Banerjee
|||  `* Re: A video for Richard HeathfieldLewis
|||   `* Re: A video for Richard HeathfieldKen Blake
|||    `- Re: A video for Richard HeathfieldLewis
||`- Re: A video for Richard HeathfieldArindam Banerjee
|`* Re: A video for Richard HeathfieldCDB
| +* Re: A video for Richard HeathfieldJerry Friedman
| |+* Re: A video for Richard Heathfieldlar3ryca
| ||+- Re: A video for Richard HeathfieldRichard Heathfield
| ||`* Re: A video for Richard HeathfieldJerry Friedman
| || `* Re: A video for Richard Heathfieldbil...@shaw.ca
| ||  `- Re: A video for Richard HeathfieldPeter Moylan
| |`* Re: A video for Richard HeathfieldCDB
| | +* Re: A video for Richard HeathfieldPeter Moylan
| | |`* Re: A video for Richard HeathfieldJ. J. Lodder
| | | `- Re: A video for Richard Heathfieldbruce bowser
| | `* Re: A video for Richard Heathfieldbil...@shaw.ca
| |  +* Re: A video for Richard HeathfieldKen Blake
| |  |`* Re: A video for Richard HeathfieldSnidely
| |  | `- Re: A video for Richard HeathfieldTony Cooper
| |  `- Re: A video for Richard HeathfieldCDB
| `* Re: A video for Richard HeathfieldTony Cooper
|  +- Re: A video for Richard HeathfieldLewis
|  `- Re: A video for Richard HeathfieldCDB
+- Re: A video for Richard HeathfieldPeter T. Daniels
`* Re: A video for Richard HeathfieldRichard Heathfield
 +* Re: A video for Richard HeathfieldTony Cooper
 |`* Re: A video for Richard HeathfieldRichard Heathfield
 | `* Re: A video for Richard HeathfieldTony Cooper
 |  +- Re: A video for Richard HeathfieldRichard Heathfield
 |  +- Re: A video for Richard HeathfieldCDB
 |  `* Re: A video for Richard HeathfieldLewis
 |   `* Re: A video for Richard Heathfieldlar3ryca
 |    `- Re: A video for Richard HeathfieldRichard Heathfield
 +* Re: A video for Richard HeathfieldPeter Moylan
 |`* Re: A video for Richard HeathfieldRichard Heathfield
 | +- Re: A video for Richard HeathfieldPeter T. Daniels
 | +* Re: A video for Richard HeathfieldTony Cooper
 | |+- Re: A video for Richard HeathfieldRichard Heathfield
 | |+- Re: A video for Richard Heathfieldbruce bowser
 | |`- Re: A video for Richard HeathfieldPeter T. Daniels
 | `* Re: A video for Richard HeathfieldRich Ulrich
 |  `* Re: A video for Richard HeathfieldRichard Heathfield
 |   `* Re: A video for Richard HeathfieldRich Ulrich
 |    `* Re: A video for Richard Heathfieldbil...@shaw.ca
 |     `- Re: A video for Richard HeathfieldRichard Heathfield
 `* Re: A video for Richard Heathfieldoccam
  +- Re: A video for Richard HeathfieldAdam Funk
  `* Re: A video for Richard HeathfieldRichard Heathfield
   `* Re: A video for Richard Heathfieldoccam
    `- Re: A video for Richard HeathfieldRichard Heathfield

Pages:1234
A video for Richard Heathfield

<jefchbFtg4qU1@mid.individual.net>

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From: acorn...@imm.cnrs.fr (Athel Cornish-Bowden)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: A video for Richard Heathfield
Date: Mon, 16 May 2022 18:30:32 +0200
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 by: Athel Cornish-Bowden - Mon, 16 May 2022 16:30 UTC

Richard has expressed scepticism about Tucker Carlson's far-right
propaganda. He might want to look at this:

https://crooksandliars.com/2022/05/jim-acosta-calls-out-tucker-carlson-name

We had a candidate in the recent French election who was pushing the
Grand Remplacement theory in France. This was Éric Zemmour, who makes
Marine Le Pen look like soft-hearted liberal. Typically, for the far
right in France, he's more worried about Muslims from North Africa than
he is about black people from sub-Saharan Africa. (His own parents,
incidentally, were immigrants from Algeria.) Fortunately he did rather
badly in the election (just under 7%), but who knows what will happen
next time; he is young enough for there to be a next time.

Not as many people have guns and ammunition in France as in the USA.
The drug dealers have their Kalashnikovs, of course, but they're more
interested in shooting one another than they are in the Grand
Remplacement.

--
Athel -- French and British, living mainly in England until 1987.

Re: A video for Richard Heathfield

<p2falix2hf.ln2@news.ducksburg.com>

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From: a24...@ducksburg.com (Adam Funk)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: A video for Richard Heathfield
Date: Mon, 16 May 2022 18:43:21 +0100
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 by: Adam Funk - Mon, 16 May 2022 17:43 UTC

On 2022-05-16, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:

> Richard has expressed scepticism about Tucker Carlson's far-right
> propaganda. He might want to look at this:
>
> https://crooksandliars.com/2022/05/jim-acosta-calls-out-tucker-carlson-name
>
> We had a candidate in the recent French election who was pushing the
> Grand Remplacement theory in France. This was Éric Zemmour, who makes
> Marine Le Pen look like soft-hearted liberal. Typically, for the far
> right in France, he's more worried about Muslims from North Africa than
> he is about black people from sub-Saharan Africa. (His own parents,
> incidentally, were immigrants from Algeria.)

I see that they were Jewish & moved to France during the Algerian War
--- does that qualify them as "pieds-noirs"?

> Fortunately he did rather
> badly in the election (just under 7%), but who knows what will happen
> next time; he is young enough for there to be a next time.
>
> Not as many people have guns and ammunition in France as in the USA.
> The drug dealers have their Kalashnikovs, of course, but they're more
> interested in shooting one another than they are in the Grand
> Remplacement.
>

--
Unix is a user-friendly operating system. It's just very choosy about
its friends.

Re: A video for Richard Heathfield

<df558h95j06dg1upusnho1n5cb7qr7fe62@4ax.com>

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From: tonycoop...@gmail.com (Tony Cooper)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: A video for Richard Heathfield
Date: Mon, 16 May 2022 14:20:37 -0400
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 by: Tony Cooper - Mon, 16 May 2022 18:20 UTC

On Mon, 16 May 2022 18:30:32 +0200, Athel Cornish-Bowden
<acornish@imm.cnrs.fr> wrote:

>Richard has expressed scepticism about Tucker Carlson's far-right
>propaganda. He might want to look at this:
>
>https://crooksandliars.com/2022/05/jim-acosta-calls-out-tucker-carlson-name
>
>We had a candidate in the recent French election who was pushing the
>Grand Remplacement theory in France. This was Éric Zemmour, who makes
>Marine Le Pen look like soft-hearted liberal. Typically, for the far
>right in France, he's more worried about Muslims from North Africa than
>he is about black people from sub-Saharan Africa. (His own parents,
>incidentally, were immigrants from Algeria.) Fortunately he did rather
>badly in the election (just under 7%), but who knows what will happen
>next time; he is young enough for there to be a next time.
>
>Not as many people have guns and ammunition in France as in the USA.
>The drug dealers have their Kalashnikovs, of course, but they're more
>interested in shooting one another than they are in the Grand
>Remplacement.

The "Replacement Theory" is getting a great deal of press in the US of
late. Today's online _Washington Post_ has an extensive article on
the subject. The article highlights Tucker Carlson's and Laura
Ingraham's and Jeanine Pirro's frequent Fox News refrains on the
subject. (All three are Fox News commentators)

I'll link to the article, but it may be paywall-blocked:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/media/2022/05/15/buffalo-suspect-great-replacement-theory-conservative-media/?utm_campaign=

I'll quote the first paragraphs, though:

"The suspect in Saturday’s killing of 10 people at a Buffalo
supermarket allegedly wrote a document endorsing “great replacement
theory,” a once-fringe racist idea that became a popular refrain among
media figures such as Tucker Carlson and Laura Ingraham of Fox News
and conservative writer Ann Coulter.

Before the shooting rampage that also left three wounded, the suspect,
Payton S. Gendron, 18, allegedly posted a lengthy document invoking
the idea that White Americans were at risk of being “replaced” by
people of color because of immigration and higher birthrates."

--

Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida

I read and post to this group as a form of entertainment.

Re: A video for Richard Heathfield

<c18e9328-ec3c-44c5-878d-43f2a8cd93b4n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: A video for Richard Heathfield
From: gramma...@verizon.net (Peter T. Daniels)
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 by: Peter T. Daniels - Mon, 16 May 2022 20:27 UTC

On Monday, May 16, 2022 at 12:30:40 PM UTC-4, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:

> Richard has expressed scepticism about Tucker Carlson's far-right
> propaganda. He might want to look at this:
>
> https://crooksandliars.com/2022/05/jim-acosta-calls-out-tucker-carlson-name

But he's already said that he won't accept someone else's close
analysis of Carlson's broadcasts, he needs to hear it directly from him.

Would he take Putin's word for it, given that RT rebroadcasts some of
Carlson's statements?

> We had a candidate in the recent French election who was pushing the
> Grand Remplacement theory in France. This was Éric Zemmour, who makes
> Marine Le Pen look like soft-hearted liberal. Typically, for the far
> right in France, he's more worried about Muslims from North Africa than
> he is about black people from sub-Saharan Africa. (His own parents,
> incidentally, were immigrants from Algeria.) Fortunately he did rather
> badly in the election (just under 7%), but who knows what will happen
> next time; he is young enough for there to be a next time.
>
> Not as many people have guns and ammunition in France as in the USA.
> The drug dealers have their Kalashnikovs, of course, but they're more
> interested in shooting one another than they are in the Grand
> Remplacement.

Re: A video for Richard Heathfield

<t5uci6$oe9$1@dont-email.me>

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From: rjh...@cpax.org.uk (Richard Heathfield)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: A video for Richard Heathfield
Date: Mon, 16 May 2022 21:35:18 +0100
Organization: Fix this later
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 by: Richard Heathfield - Mon, 16 May 2022 20:35 UTC

On 16/05/2022 5:30 pm, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> Richard has expressed scepticism about Tucker Carlson's far-right
> propaganda. He might want to look at this:
>
> https://crooksandliars.com/2022/05/jim-acosta-calls-out-tucker-carlson-name

I looked. I saw 48 seconds of this Carlson character. He said a
bunch of stuff about "replacement" that may or may not be true (I
have no opinion on whether it's true). I presume that those
calling him a racist will claim that his claims are not true, and
presumable he thinks that they are true. I don't see that this
evidence moves us forward much if at all until we can establish
whether the claims are true.

I am reminded to some extent of Enoch Powell.

--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

Re: A video for Richard Heathfield

<1ps2jhu.r5txqf1p7cr8uN%nospam@de-ster.demon.nl>

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From: nos...@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: A video for Richard Heathfield
Date: Mon, 16 May 2022 22:44:02 +0200
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 by: J. J. Lodder - Mon, 16 May 2022 20:44 UTC

Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> wrote:

> On 2022-05-16, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>
> > Richard has expressed scepticism about Tucker Carlson's far-right
> > propaganda. He might want to look at this:
> >
> > https://crooksandliars.com/2022/05/jim-acosta-calls-out-tucker-carlson-name
> >
> > We had a candidate in the recent French election who was pushing the
> > Grand Remplacement theory in France. This was Éric Zemmour, who makes
> > Marine Le Pen look like soft-hearted liberal. Typically, for the far
> > right in France, he's more worried about Muslims from North Africa than
> > he is about black people from sub-Saharan Africa. (His own parents,
> > incidentally, were immigrants from Algeria.)
>
> I see that they were Jewish & moved to France during the Algerian War
> --- does that qualify them as "pieds-noirs"?

Not by the usual definitions of 'pieds noirs'.
(which is limited to people of recent European descent)

AFAIK his ancestors were 'Berber Jews'
who lived there long before the French colonisation.
(often after being expelled from Spain/Portugal)

Jan

Re: A video for Richard Heathfield

<pen58hp9n932p098f69ejd2966kvkmt5go@4ax.com>

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From: tonycoop...@gmail.com (Tony Cooper)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: A video for Richard Heathfield
Date: Mon, 16 May 2022 20:36:05 -0400
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 by: Tony Cooper - Tue, 17 May 2022 00:36 UTC

On Mon, 16 May 2022 21:35:18 +0100, Richard Heathfield
<rjh@cpax.org.uk> wrote:

>On 16/05/2022 5:30 pm, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>> Richard has expressed scepticism about Tucker Carlson's far-right
>> propaganda. He might want to look at this:
>>
>> https://crooksandliars.com/2022/05/jim-acosta-calls-out-tucker-carlson-name
>
>I looked. I saw 48 seconds of this Carlson character. He said a
>bunch of stuff about "replacement" that may or may not be true (I
>have no opinion on whether it's true).

I think if you want to comment on something that you should at least
read or listen to what you are commenting on and have some
understanding of the subject.

The subject is the "The Great Replacement Theory".

This is fairly condensed explantion of what that is:

Begin quote: __________________________________________
WHAT IS THE ‘GREAT REPLACEMENT THEORY’?

Simply put, the conspiracy theory says there’s a plot to diminish the
influence of white people.

Believers say this goal is being achieved both through the immigration
of nonwhite people into societies that have largely been dominated by
white people, as well as through simple demographics, with white
people having lower birth rates than other populations.

The conspiracy theory’s more racist adherents believe Jews are behind
the so-called replacement plan: White nationalists marching at a
Charlottesville, Virginia, rally that turned deadly in 2017 chanted
“You will not replace us!” and “Jews will not replace us!”

A more mainstream view in the U.S. baselessly suggests Democrats are
encouraging immigration from Latin America so more like-minded
potential voters replace “traditional” Americans, says Mark Pitcavage,
senior research fellow at the Anti-Defamation League Center on
Extremism.

End quote: __________________________________________

The above is from a news article that is behind a paywall and cannot
be linked to.

If you watch the clips of Tucker Carlson, he says "That's what's
happening, actually. It's true." He goes on about "poor people with
limited education." The rest of his comments are replete with his
trademark facial gyrations and voice emphasis that are used to
buttress his spoken words and that the suggestion that this is a
problem is too ludicrous to consider

Yet, we know from Charlottesville, Pittsburgh, El Paso, and other
instances that people are buying on to the theory and reacting
violently. While there's no claim that the shooter in Buffalo who
killed ten people a few days ago watches Tucker Carlson, the shooter's
published "manifesto" shows that believing in the evil of The Great
Replacement Theory was a motivation to him. The shooter, Payton
Gendron, repeatedly referenced this in his "manifesto".

Carlson is echoing the positions taken in the "Daily Stormer" (a white
supremacist, neo-Nazi, and anti-semetic website) but crafting his
comments to avoid the actual "evidence" you want while communicating
it by generality and innuendo.

You say "Where's the evidence of racism?", but - to me - the better
question is "Does Carlson foment racism?". And, the answer to my
question is a clear "Yes".

>I am reminded to some extent of Enoch Powell.

You might want to look up Theodore G. Bilbo.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodore_G._Bilbo

He's considered to be the Father of the Replacement Theory in the US..

The only difference between Bilbo and Carlson is that Bilbo didn't
have a television audience and wasn't restricted by Standards &
Practices as Carlson is. (Even though the S&P at Fox News for
commentators sets a very low bar)

--

Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida

I read and post to this group as a form of entertainment.

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Subject: Re: A video for Richard Heathfield
Date: Tue, 17 May 2022 11:29:35 +1000
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 by: Peter Moylan - Tue, 17 May 2022 01:29 UTC

On 17/05/22 06:35, Richard Heathfield wrote:
> On 16/05/2022 5:30 pm, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>> Richard has expressed scepticism about Tucker Carlson's far-right
>> propaganda. He might want to look at this:
>>
>> https://crooksandliars.com/2022/05/jim-acosta-calls-out-tucker-carlson-name
>>
>>
>
> I looked. I saw 48 seconds of this Carlson character. He said a bunch
> of stuff about "replacement" that may or may not be true (I have no
> opinion on whether it's true). I presume that those calling him a
> racist will claim that his claims are not true, and presumable he
> thinks that they are true. I don't see that this evidence moves us
> forward much if at all until we can establish whether the claims are
> true.
>
> I am reminded to some extent of Enoch Powell.

You've moved the goalposts. The question is not whether his claims are
true, but whether he made the claims.

Or are you suggesting that replacement theory is not racist because
white people have a legitimate fear of being replaced by blacks?

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

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 by: Peter Moylan - Tue, 17 May 2022 01:32 UTC

On 17/05/22 04:20, Tony Cooper wrote:

> I'll link to the article, but it may be paywall-blocked:
>
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/media/2022/05/15/buffalo-suspect-great-replacement-theory-conservative-media/?utm_campaign=
>
> I'll quote the first paragraphs, though:
>
> "The suspect in Saturday’s killing of 10 people at a Buffalo
> supermarket allegedly wrote a document endorsing “great replacement
> theory,” a once-fringe racist idea that became a popular refrain
> among media figures such as Tucker Carlson and Laura Ingraham of Fox
> News and conservative writer Ann Coulter.
>
> Before the shooting rampage that also left three wounded, the
> suspect, Payton S. Gendron, 18, allegedly posted a lengthy document
> invoking the idea that White Americans were at risk of being
> “replaced” by people of color because of immigration and higher
> birthrates."

This is reminiscent of the 1951 short story "The Marching Morons". It's
based on the idea that highly intelligent people don't have as many
children as those of low intelligence. The result, in the story set in
the future, is that the average IQ has dropped to 45 and the burden of
keeping the world running has fallen on the small handful of people
whose IQ is 100 or more.

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

Re: A video for Richard Heathfield

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 by: Lewis - Tue, 17 May 2022 02:26 UTC

In message <t5utv0$232$1@dont-email.me> Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
> On 17/05/22 04:20, Tony Cooper wrote:

>> I'll link to the article, but it may be paywall-blocked:
>>
>> https://www.washingtonpost.com/media/2022/05/15/buffalo-suspect-great-replacement-theory-conservative-media/?utm_campaign=
>>
>> I'll quote the first paragraphs, though:
>>
>> "The suspect in Saturday’s killing of 10 people at a Buffalo
>> supermarket allegedly wrote a document endorsing “great replacement
>> theory,” a once-fringe racist idea that became a popular refrain
>> among media figures such as Tucker Carlson and Laura Ingraham of Fox
>> News and conservative writer Ann Coulter.
>>
>> Before the shooting rampage that also left three wounded, the
>> suspect, Payton S. Gendron, 18, allegedly posted a lengthy document
>> invoking the idea that White Americans were at risk of being
>> “replaced” by people of color because of immigration and higher
>> birthrates."

> This is reminiscent of the 1951 short story "The Marching Morons". It's
> based on the idea that highly intelligent people don't have as many
> children as those of low intelligence. The result, in the story set in
> the future, is that the average IQ has dropped to 45 and the burden of
> keeping the world running has fallen on the small handful of people
> whose IQ is 100 or more.

Only smart people have smart children and stupid people only have stupid
children. Everyone knows that. Albert Einstein came from a long-line of
super geniuses and was a direct descendant of Fermat and Newton, right?

Right?

Oh, wait.

--
How can you trust a man that wears both a belt and suspenders? Man can't even
trust his own pants.

Re: A video for Richard Heathfield

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From: rjh...@cpax.org.uk (Richard Heathfield)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: A video for Richard Heathfield
Date: Tue, 17 May 2022 08:14:08 +0100
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 by: Richard Heathfield - Tue, 17 May 2022 07:14 UTC

On 17/05/2022 1:36 am, Tony Cooper wrote:
> On Mon, 16 May 2022 21:35:18 +0100, Richard Heathfield
> <rjh@cpax.org.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 16/05/2022 5:30 pm, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>>> Richard has expressed scepticism about Tucker Carlson's far-right
>>> propaganda. He might want to look at this:
>>>
>>> https://crooksandliars.com/2022/05/jim-acosta-calls-out-tucker-carlson-name
>>
>> I looked. I saw 48 seconds of this Carlson character. He said a
>> bunch of stuff about "replacement" that may or may not be true (I
>> have no opinion on whether it's true).
>
> I think if you want to comment on something that you should at least
> read or listen to what you are commenting on and have some
> understanding of the subject.

The "something" on which I have been commenting is racism, and
whether evidence can be produced to show that Tucker Carlson is a
racist.

> The subject is the "The Great Replacement Theory".

No, it isn't. The subject was whether Tucker Carlson was racist,
and I asked for evidence supporting that view. Athel, by
directing this video to me by name, implied that it furthers the
debate in which I was participating. In my view, it doesn't.

> This is fairly condensed explantion of what that is:
>
> Begin quote: __________________________________________
> WHAT IS THE ‘GREAT REPLACEMENT THEORY’?
>
> Simply put, the conspiracy theory says there’s a plot to diminish the
> influence of white people.

By careful use of the term "conspiracy theory" you indicate (a)
that you don't subscribe to the theory, and that (b) people who
do are nuts. Hardly a neutral position, then.

>
> Believers

So it's not even a theory. It's a religion. Don't Americans have
freedom of religion yet?

> If you watch the clips of Tucker Carlson, he says "That's what's
> happening, actually. It's true."

I watched the 48 seconds Athel pointed to. Yes he did say "that's
true", so presumably he believes it. Are you in a position to
demonstrate that it's not true? And this is where I came in.

> He goes on about "poor people with
> limited education."

Most people are poor with limited education. If one is not
allowed to talk about such people, one is forbidden from talking
about most of one's own species.

> The rest of his comments are replete with his
> trademark facial gyrations and voice emphasis that are used to
> buttress his spoken words and that the suggestion that this is a
> problem is too ludicrous to consider

This non-verbal communication has been raised before, but I don't
see it. Maybe it's a culture thing?

> Yet, we know from Charlottesville, Pittsburgh, El Paso, and other
> instances that people are buying on to the theory and reacting
> violently.

These would be poor people with limited education, right? So now
we're allowed to talk about them? Or are we only allowed to talk
about them if we're far left?

(I use "far left" to mean "further left than me", a trick I
learned from the far left, although of course my usage is a
mirror image of theirs.)

--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

Re: A video for Richard Heathfield

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From: rjh...@cpax.org.uk (Richard Heathfield)
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Subject: Re: A video for Richard Heathfield
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 by: Richard Heathfield - Tue, 17 May 2022 07:20 UTC

On 17/05/2022 2:29 am, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 17/05/22 06:35, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>> On 16/05/2022 5:30 pm, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>>> Richard has expressed scepticism about Tucker Carlson's far-right
>>> propaganda. He might want to look at this:
>>>
>>> https://crooksandliars.com/2022/05/jim-acosta-calls-out-tucker-carlson-name
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I looked. I saw 48 seconds of this Carlson character. He said a
>> bunch
>> of stuff about "replacement" that may or may not be true (I
>> have no
>> opinion on whether it's true). I presume that those calling him a
>> racist will claim that his claims are not true, and presumable he
>> thinks that they are true. I don't see that this evidence moves us
>> forward much if at all until we can establish whether the
>> claims are
>> true.
>>
>> I am reminded to some extent of Enoch Powell.
>
> You've moved the goalposts. The question is not whether his
> claims are
> true, but whether he made the claims.

I don't mean to move the goalposts, but I was under the
impression that the question was whether Tucker Carlson is a racist.

> Or are you suggesting that replacement theory is not racist because
> white people have a legitimate fear of being replaced by blacks?

That's a very packed question. Is such a fear legitimate? Or is
it racist? Would it be a legitimate fear, or a racist fear, when
expressed by native Americans in the 18th century --- i.e. a fear
of being replaced by colonials? I see a lot of question-begging
going on in this thread.

--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

Re: A video for Richard Heathfield

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 by: Richard Heathfield - Tue, 17 May 2022 07:27 UTC

On 17/05/2022 2:32 am, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 17/05/22 04:20, Tony Cooper wrote:
>
>> I'll link to the article, but it may be paywall-blocked:
>>
>> https://www.washingtonpost.com/media/2022/05/15/buffalo-suspect-great-replacement-theory-conservative-media/?utm_campaign=
>>
>>
>>  I'll quote the first paragraphs, though:
>>
>> "The suspect in Saturday’s killing of 10 people at a Buffalo
>> supermarket allegedly wrote a document endorsing “great
>> replacement
>> theory,” a once-fringe racist idea that became a popular refrain
>> among media figures such as Tucker Carlson and Laura Ingraham
>> of Fox
>> News and conservative writer Ann Coulter.
>>
>> Before the shooting rampage that also left three wounded, the
>> suspect, Payton S. Gendron, 18, allegedly posted a lengthy
>> document
>> invoking the idea that White Americans were at risk of being
>> “replaced” by people of color because of immigration and higher
>> birthrates."
>
> This is reminiscent of the 1951 short story "The Marching
> Morons". It's
> based on the idea that highly intelligent people don't have as many
> children as those of low intelligence. The result, in the story
> set in
> the future, is that the average IQ has dropped to 45

In which case, it's been redefined.

> and the
> burden of
> keeping the world running has fallen on the small handful of people
> whose IQ is 100 or more.

Solution: scrap the redefinition. Then you'll have half the
population to fall back on.

I, too, am reminded of a short story, one in which a young black
man is on his way to A Big City to show the Powers That Be a
Wonderful New Invention that will Change The World. On the way to
the railway station, he is attacked by a Bunch of Racist
Arseholes and battered to death. The Wonderful New Invention lies
trampled underfoot and unregarded.

--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

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 by: occam - Tue, 17 May 2022 08:58 UTC

On 16/05/2022 22:35, Richard Heathfield wrote:
> I looked. I saw 48 seconds of this Carlson character. He said a bunch of
> stuff about "replacement" that may or may not be true (I have no opinion
> on whether it's true). I presume that those calling him a racist will
> claim that his claims are not true, and presumable he thinks that they
> are true. I don't see that this evidence moves us forward much if at all
> until we can establish whether the claims are true.
>
> I am reminded to some extent of Enoch Powell.

Heh! If I recall well, Enoch was in favour of forced expulsion
('repatriation') of immigrants from the UK, for the sake of cleansing
Britain of non-Brits.

The current policy of Britain to outsource asylum seekers (a euphemism
for 'pushing away') to Rwanda must be seen as a step towards his 50-year
old dream.

Are you saying he was not a racist? Was his becoming an outcast not
merited? Remember, not only did the Conservative party disown him, but
his career as a politician rapidly degenerated into nothingness.

Source:
<https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/apr/14/enoch-powell-rivers-blood-legacy-wolverhampton>

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From: a24...@ducksburg.com (Adam Funk)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: A video for Richard Heathfield
Date: Tue, 17 May 2022 10:17:55 +0100
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 by: Adam Funk - Tue, 17 May 2022 09:17 UTC

On 2022-05-17, Peter Moylan wrote:

> On 17/05/22 04:20, Tony Cooper wrote:
>
>> I'll link to the article, but it may be paywall-blocked:
>>
>> https://www.washingtonpost.com/media/2022/05/15/buffalo-suspect-great-replacement-theory-conservative-media/?utm_campaign=
>>
>> I'll quote the first paragraphs, though:
>>
>> "The suspect in Saturday’s killing of 10 people at a Buffalo
>> supermarket allegedly wrote a document endorsing “great replacement
>> theory,” a once-fringe racist idea that became a popular refrain
>> among media figures such as Tucker Carlson and Laura Ingraham of Fox
>> News and conservative writer Ann Coulter.
>>
>> Before the shooting rampage that also left three wounded, the
>> suspect, Payton S. Gendron, 18, allegedly posted a lengthy document
>> invoking the idea that White Americans were at risk of being
>> “replaced” by people of color because of immigration and higher
>> birthrates."
>
> This is reminiscent of the 1951 short story "The Marching Morons". It's
> based on the idea that highly intelligent people don't have as many
> children as those of low intelligence. The result, in the story set in
> the future, is that the average IQ has dropped to 45 and the burden of
> keeping the world running has fallen on the small handful of people
> whose IQ is 100 or more.

I just looked that up & found this:

Barlow derives a solution based on his experience in scamming
people into buying worthless land and knowledge of lemmings' mass
migration into the sea

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Marching_Morons>

I wonder if the author knew that lemmings don't really do that & it
was part of the gag.

--
Dear Ann [Landers]: if there's an enormous rash of necrophilia that
happens in the next year because of this song, please let me know.
99.9% of the rest of us know it's a funny song! ---Alice Cooper

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From: a24...@ducksburg.com (Adam Funk)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: A video for Richard Heathfield
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 by: Adam Funk - Tue, 17 May 2022 09:21 UTC

On 2022-05-16, J. J. Lodder wrote:

> Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2022-05-16, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>>
>> > Richard has expressed scepticism about Tucker Carlson's far-right
>> > propaganda. He might want to look at this:
>> >
>> > https://crooksandliars.com/2022/05/jim-acosta-calls-out-tucker-carlson-name
>> >
>> > We had a candidate in the recent French election who was pushing the
>> > Grand Remplacement theory in France. This was Éric Zemmour, who makes
>> > Marine Le Pen look like soft-hearted liberal. Typically, for the far
>> > right in France, he's more worried about Muslims from North Africa than
>> > he is about black people from sub-Saharan Africa. (His own parents,
>> > incidentally, were immigrants from Algeria.)
>>
>> I see that they were Jewish & moved to France during the Algerian War
>> --- does that qualify them as "pieds-noirs"?
>
> Not by the usual definitions of 'pieds noirs'.
> (which is limited to people of recent European descent)
>
> AFAIK his ancestors were 'Berber Jews'
> who lived there long before the French colonisation.
> (often after being expelled from Spain/Portugal)

Fair point. He nonetheless seems to have picked up the bad attitudes
that a lot of them had.

--
I've had a few myself, he said,
but I never quit when I'm ahead

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From: a24...@ducksburg.com (Adam Funk)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: A video for Richard Heathfield
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 by: Adam Funk - Tue, 17 May 2022 09:19 UTC

On 2022-05-17, occam wrote:

>
> On 16/05/2022 22:35, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>> I looked. I saw 48 seconds of this Carlson character. He said a bunch of
>> stuff about "replacement" that may or may not be true (I have no opinion
>> on whether it's true). I presume that those calling him a racist will
>> claim that his claims are not true, and presumable he thinks that they
>> are true. I don't see that this evidence moves us forward much if at all
>> until we can establish whether the claims are true.
>>
>> I am reminded to some extent of Enoch Powell.
>
> Heh! If I recall well, Enoch was in favour of forced expulsion
> ('repatriation') of immigrants from the UK, for the sake of cleansing
> Britain of non-Brits.
>
> The current policy of Britain to outsource asylum seekers (a euphemism
> for 'pushing away') to Rwanda must be seen as a step towards his 50-year
> old dream.
>
> Are you saying he was not a racist? Was his becoming an outcast not
> merited? Remember, not only did the Conservative party disown him, but
> his career as a politician rapidly degenerated into nothingness.
>
>
> Source:
><https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/apr/14/enoch-powell-rivers-blood-legacy-wolverhampton>

Whether he was or not, his notorious speech favoured pandering to
racist constituents for political gain.

--
I never met a people who were better at not getting to the
point than the Brits. ---Rich Hall

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From: rjh...@cpax.org.uk (Richard Heathfield)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: A video for Richard Heathfield
Date: Tue, 17 May 2022 10:38:32 +0100
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 by: Richard Heathfield - Tue, 17 May 2022 09:38 UTC

On 17/05/2022 9:58 am, occam wrote:
>
> On 16/05/2022 22:35, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>> I looked. I saw 48 seconds of this Carlson character. He said a bunch of
>> stuff about "replacement" that may or may not be true (I have no opinion
>> on whether it's true). I presume that those calling him a racist will
>> claim that his claims are not true, and presumable he thinks that they
>> are true. I don't see that this evidence moves us forward much if at all
>> until we can establish whether the claims are true.
>>
>> I am reminded to some extent of Enoch Powell.
>
> Heh! If I recall well, Enoch was in favour of forced expulsion

Ah, then you know more about him than I do. What I recall was his
warning that integration isn't as simple as the naive believe,
and that it is folly to sweep the matter under the carpet by
calling 'racist' anyone who dares to discuss the matter.

"Above all, people are disposed to mistake predicting troubles
for causing troubles and even for desiring troubles: "If only,"
they love to think, "if only people wouldn't talk about it, it
probably wouldn't happen.""

> Are you saying [Powell] was not a racist? Was his becoming an outcast not
> merited? Remember, not only did the Conservative party disown him, but
> his career as a politician rapidly degenerated into nothingness.

He dared to discuss uncontrolled immigration. That is more than
enough for many people to condemn him as a racist.

--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

Re: A video for Richard Heathfield

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From: pet...@pmoylan.org.invalid (Peter Moylan)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: A video for Richard Heathfield
Date: Tue, 17 May 2022 20:23:08 +1000
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 by: Peter Moylan - Tue, 17 May 2022 10:23 UTC

On 17/05/22 17:27, Richard Heathfield wrote:

> I, too, am reminded of a short story, one in which a young black man
> is on his way to A Big City to show the Powers That Be a Wonderful
> New Invention that will Change The World. On the way to the railway
> station, he is attacked by a Bunch of Racist Arseholes and battered
> to death. The Wonderful New Invention lies trampled underfoot and
> unregarded.

I'm having trouble googling it, but I believe the story is "Mute Milton"
by Harry Harrison. The black man's "nigger radio" was in fact an Arindam
perpetual motion machine, getting its energy from the gravitational
gradient. The invention was lost when he was shot by a cop.

Slight correction, from memory: he was on his way to the bus station,
not the railway station. But such a memory lapse is understandable from
someone in a country where railway stations are much more common than
bus stations.

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

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 by: Peter Moylan - Tue, 17 May 2022 10:26 UTC

On 17/05/22 19:17, Adam Funk wrote:
> On 2022-05-17, Peter Moylan wrote:

>> This is reminiscent of the 1951 short story "The Marching Morons". It's
>> based on the idea that highly intelligent people don't have as many
>> children as those of low intelligence. The result, in the story set in
>> the future, is that the average IQ has dropped to 45 and the burden of
>> keeping the world running has fallen on the small handful of people
>> whose IQ is 100 or more.
>
> I just looked that up & found this:
>
> Barlow derives a solution based on his experience in scamming
> people into buying worthless land and knowledge of lemmings' mass
> migration into the sea
>
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Marching_Morons>
>
> I wonder if the author knew that lemmings don't really do that & it
> was part of the gag.

We know more about lemmings now, but the image of lemmings throwing
themselves off cliffs is so embedded in the popular culture that we'll
never get rid of it.

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

Re: A video for Richard Heathfield

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From: nos...@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: A video for Richard Heathfield
Date: Tue, 17 May 2022 12:43:10 +0200
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 by: J. J. Lodder - Tue, 17 May 2022 10:43 UTC

Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> wrote:

> On 2022-05-16, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>
> > Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On 2022-05-16, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> >>
> >> > Richard has expressed scepticism about Tucker Carlson's far-right
> >> > propaganda. He might want to look at this:
> >> >
> >> > https://crooksandliars.com/2022/05/jim-acosta-calls-out-tucker-carlson-na
me
> >> >
> >> > We had a candidate in the recent French election who was pushing the
> >> > Grand Remplacement theory in France. This was Éric Zemmour, who makes
> >> > Marine Le Pen look like soft-hearted liberal. Typically, for the far
> >> > right in France, he's more worried about Muslims from North Africa than
> >> > he is about black people from sub-Saharan Africa. (His own parents,
> >> > incidentally, were immigrants from Algeria.)
> >>
> >> I see that they were Jewish & moved to France during the Algerian War
> >> --- does that qualify them as "pieds-noirs"?
> >
> > Not by the usual definitions of 'pieds noirs'.
> > (which is limited to people of recent European descent)
> >
> > AFAIK his ancestors were 'Berber Jews'
> > who lived there long before the French colonisation.
> > (often after being expelled from Spain/Portugal)
>
> Fair point. He nonetheless seems to have picked up the bad attitudes
> that a lot of them had.

Yes, many of those 'colons' were a pampered lot,
used to having servants to order around to do the real work.
When back in France some of them were resentful
at having to do real work themselves, and they turned extreme right.
The South of France is the main power base of Madame Le Pen
with good reason.

Jan

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Subject: Re: A video for Richard Heathfield
Date: Tue, 17 May 2022 12:43:10 +0200
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 by: J. J. Lodder - Tue, 17 May 2022 10:43 UTC

Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> wrote:

> On 2022-05-17, Peter Moylan wrote:
>
> > On 17/05/22 04:20, Tony Cooper wrote:
> >
> >> I'll link to the article, but it may be paywall-blocked:
> >>
> >> https://www.washingtonpost.com/media/2022/05/15/buffalo-suspect-great-repla
cement-theory-conservative-media/?utm_campaign=
> >>
> >> I'll quote the first paragraphs, though:
> >>
> >> "The suspect in Saturday's killing of 10 people at a Buffalo
> >> supermarket allegedly wrote a document endorsing "great replacement
> >> theory," a once-fringe racist idea that became a popular refrain
> >> among media figures such as Tucker Carlson and Laura Ingraham of Fox
> >> News and conservative writer Ann Coulter.
> >>
> >> Before the shooting rampage that also left three wounded, the
> >> suspect, Payton S. Gendron, 18, allegedly posted a lengthy document
> >> invoking the idea that White Americans were at risk of being
> >> "replaced" by people of color because of immigration and higher
> >> birthrates."
> >
> > This is reminiscent of the 1951 short story "The Marching Morons". It's
> > based on the idea that highly intelligent people don't have as many
> > children as those of low intelligence. The result, in the story set in
> > the future, is that the average IQ has dropped to 45 and the burden of
> > keeping the world running has fallen on the small handful of people
> > whose IQ is 100 or more.
>
> I just looked that up & found this:
>
> Barlow derives a solution based on his experience in scamming
> people into buying worthless land and knowledge of lemmings' mass
> migration into the sea
>
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Marching_Morons>

Kornbluth wasn't really a nice person. (more American fascism in SF)
And a second rate author too.
He needed Pohl as first author to produce something worthwhile.

> I wonder if the author knew that lemmings don't really do that & it
> was part of the gag.

But lemmings really do that, in Hollywoood science,
so in American reality,

Jan

Re: A video for Richard Heathfield

<t5vusf$7js$1@dont-email.me>

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From: rjh...@cpax.org.uk (Richard Heathfield)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: A video for Richard Heathfield
Date: Tue, 17 May 2022 11:54:07 +0100
Organization: Fix this later
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 by: Richard Heathfield - Tue, 17 May 2022 10:54 UTC

On 17/05/2022 11:23 am, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 17/05/22 17:27, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>
>> I, too, am reminded of a short story, one in which a young
>> black man
>> is on his way to A Big City to show the Powers That Be a Wonderful
>> New Invention that will Change The World. On the way to the
>> railway
>> station, he is attacked by a Bunch of Racist Arseholes and
>> battered
>> to death. The Wonderful New Invention lies trampled underfoot and
>> unregarded.
>
> I'm having trouble googling it, but I believe the story is "Mute
> Milton"
> by Harry Harrison. The black man's "nigger radio" was in fact an
> Arindam
> perpetual motion machine, getting its energy from the gravitational
> gradient. The invention was lost when he was shot by a cop.

That all sounds in keeping with my somewhat faded memory of the
story, which I haven't read for half a century.

> Slight correction, from memory: he was on his way to the bus
> station,
> not the railway station. But such a memory lapse is
> understandable from
> someone in a country where railway stations are much more common
> than
> bus stations.

And where we use calendars, not timetables.

--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

Re: A video for Richard Heathfield

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From: nos...@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: A video for Richard Heathfield
Date: Tue, 17 May 2022 13:06:00 +0200
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 by: J. J. Lodder - Tue, 17 May 2022 11:06 UTC

Lewis <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> wrote:

> In message <t5utv0$232$1@dont-email.me> Peter Moylan:
> > On 17/05/22 04:20, Tony Cooper wrote:
>
> >> I'll link to the article, but it may be paywall-blocked:
> >>
> >> https://www.washingtonpost.com/media/2022/05/15/buffalo-suspect-great-repla
cement-theory-conservative-media/?utm_campaign=
> >>
> >> I'll quote the first paragraphs, though:
> >>
> >> "The suspect in Saturday's killing of 10 people at a Buffalo
> >> supermarket allegedly wrote a document endorsing "great replacement
> >> theory," a once-fringe racist idea that became a popular refrain
> >> among media figures such as Tucker Carlson and Laura Ingraham of Fox
> >> News and conservative writer Ann Coulter.
> >>
> >> Before the shooting rampage that also left three wounded, the
> >> suspect, Payton S. Gendron, 18, allegedly posted a lengthy document
> >> invoking the idea that White Americans were at risk of being
> >> "replaced" by people of color because of immigration and higher
> >> birthrates."
>
> > This is reminiscent of the 1951 short story "The Marching Morons". It's
> > based on the idea that highly intelligent people don't have as many
> > children as those of low intelligence. The result, in the story set in
> > the future, is that the average IQ has dropped to 45 and the burden of
> > keeping the world running has fallen on the small handful of people
> > whose IQ is 100 or more.
>
> Only smart people have smart children and stupid people only have stupid
> children. Everyone knows that. Albert Einstein came from a long-line of
> super geniuses and was a direct descendant of Fermat and Newton, right?
>
> Right?
>
> Oh, wait.

Well, we should be able to see that, by IQ inflation.
We are all in the Einstein super-genius class,
by our IQ scores.

Hadn't you noticed?

Jan

Re: A video for Richard Heathfield

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From: acorn...@imm.cnrs.fr (Athel Cornish-Bowden)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: A video for Richard Heathfield
Date: Tue, 17 May 2022 13:09:42 +0200
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 by: Athel Cornish-Bowden - Tue, 17 May 2022 11:09 UTC

On 2022-05-17 10:43:10 +0000, J. J. Lodder said:

> Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> [ … ]

>>
>> I wonder if the author knew that lemmings don't really do that & it
>> was part of the gag.
>
> But lemmings really do that, in Hollywoood science,
> so in American reality,

Real lemmings don't commit mass suicide, but they do migrate in vast
numbers, and that is probably the origin of the myth. A more
interesting thing about lemmings is their weird system of sex
chromosomes, leading to a population that is 75% female.

--
Athel -- French and British, living mainly in England until 1987.

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