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interests / alt.usage.english / Re: CRT in math testbooks

SubjectAuthor
* CRT in math testbooksPeter T. Daniels
+* Re: CRT in math testbooksspains...@gmail.com
|`* Re: CRT in math testbooksKerr-Mudd, John
| `- Re: CRT in math testbooksQuinn C
+* Re: CRT in math testbooksPeter T. Daniels
|`- Re: CRT in math testbooksAdam Funk
+* Re: CRT in math testbooksTony Cooper
|+* Re: CRT in math testbooksPeter Moylan
||+* Re: CRT in math testbooksLewis
|||`* Re: CRT in math testbooksPeter Moylan
||| +* Re: CRT in math testbooksRichard Heathfield
||| |`- Re: CRT in math testbooksPeter T. Daniels
||| +* Re: CRT in math testbookslar3ryca
||| |`* Re: CRT in math testbooksPeter Moylan
||| | +* Re: CRT in math testbooksSilvano
||| | |+- Re: CRT in math testbooksAthel Cornish-Bowden
||| | |`* Re: CRT in math testbooksPeter Moylan
||| | | +- Re: CRT in math testbookslar3ryca
||| | | `* Re: CRT in math testbooksLewis
||| | |  `* Re: CRT in math testbooksPeter Moylan
||| | |   `- Re: CRT in math testbooksSam Plusnet
||| | `- Re: CRT in math testbooksAthel Cornish-Bowden
||| +* Re: CRT in math testbooksLewis
||| |+* Re: CRT in math testbooksPeter Moylan
||| ||`* Re: CRT in math testbooksAthel Cornish-Bowden
||| || `- Re: CRT in math testbooksLewis
||| |`* Re: CRT in math testbooksTony Cooper
||| | +* Re: CRT in math testbooksRichard Heathfield
||| | |+* Re: CRT in math testbooksStefan Ram
||| | ||`* Re: CRT in math testbooksSnidely
||| | || `- Re: CRT in math testbooksCDB
||| | |`* Re: CRT in math testbooksPeter Moylan
||| | | +- Re: CRT in math testbooksRichard Heathfield
||| | | +- Re: CRT in math testbooksTony Cooper
||| | | `* Re: CRT in math testbooksLewis
||| | |  `* Re: CRT in math testbooksTony Cooper
||| | |   `- Re: CRT in math testbooksLewis
||| | +* Re: CRT in math testbooksLewis
||| | |`* Re: CRT in math testbooksTony Cooper
||| | | `* Re: CRT in math testbooksLewis
||| | |  +* Re: CRT in math testbooksTony Cooper
||| | |  |`* Re: CRT in math testbooksLewis
||| | |  | `* Re: CRT in math testbooksTony Cooper
||| | |  |  +- Re: CRT in math testbooksCDB
||| | |  |  `* Re: CRT in math testbooksLewis
||| | |  |   `* Re: CRT in math testbooksAdam Funk
||| | |  |    `- Re: CRT in math testbooksLewis
||| | |  `* Re: CRT in math testbooksPeter T. Daniels
||| | |   `- Re: CRT in math testbooksAdam Funk
||| | `* Re: CRT in math testbooksPeter Moylan
||| |  +* Re: CRT in math testbooksTony Cooper
||| |  |`- Re: CRT in math testbooksPeter T. Daniels
||| |  `* Re: CRT in math testbooksPeter T. Daniels
||| |   +* Re: CRT in math testbooksTony Cooper
||| |   |`* Re: CRT in math testbooksPeter T. Daniels
||| |   | `* Re: CRT in math testbooksTony Cooper
||| |   |  +* Re: CRT in math testbooksSam Plusnet
||| |   |  |+* Re: CRT in math testbooksPeter T. Daniels
||| |   |  ||`- Re: CRT in math testbooksTony Cooper
||| |   |  |`- Re: CRT in math testbooksTony Cooper
||| |   |  `* Re: CRT in math testbooksSnidely
||| |   |   `* Re: CRT in math testbooksPeter Moylan
||| |   |    `* Re: CRT in math testbooksTony Cooper
||| |   |     `* Re: CRT in math testbooksRuud Harmsen
||| |   |      +* Re: CRT in math testbooksPeter Moylan
||| |   |      |`* Re: CRT in math testbooksAdam Funk
||| |   |      | +* Re: CRT in math testbooksQuinn C
||| |   |      | |`* Re: CRT in math testbooksRuud Harmsen
||| |   |      | | +- Re: CRT in math testbookslar3ryca
||| |   |      | | `- Re: CRT in math testbooksQuinn C
||| |   |      | `* Re: CRT in math testbooksPeter Moylan
||| |   |      |  `- Re: CRT in math testbooksQuinn C
||| |   |      +* Re: CRT in math testbooksJanet
||| |   |      |+* Re: CRT in math testbooksCDB
||| |   |      ||+* Re: CRT in math testbooksTony Cooper
||| |   |      |||+* Re: CRT in math testbooksRich Ulrich
||| |   |      ||||`* Re: CRT in math testbooksTony Cooper
||| |   |      |||| +* Re: CRT in math testbooksAdam Funk
||| |   |      |||| |`* Re: CRT in math testbooksKerr-Mudd, John
||| |   |      |||| | `- Re: CRT in math testbooksAdam Funk
||| |   |      |||| `* Re: CRT in math testbooksPeter Moylan
||| |   |      ||||  `* Re: CRT in math testbooksTony Cooper
||| |   |      ||||   `- Re: CRT in math testbooksRich Ulrich
||| |   |      |||`* Re: CRT in math testbooksQuinn C
||| |   |      ||| +* Re: CRT in math testbooksbil...@shaw.ca
||| |   |      ||| |`* Re: CRT in math testbooksQuinn C
||| |   |      ||| | +* Re: CRT in math testbooksCDB
||| |   |      ||| | |+* Re: CRT in math testbooksQuinn C
||| |   |      ||| | ||`- Re: CRT in math testbooksCDB
||| |   |      ||| | |`* Re: CRT in math testbooksMark Brader
||| |   |      ||| | | `* Re: CRT in math testbooksCDB
||| |   |      ||| | |  `* Re: CRT in math testbooksMark Brader
||| |   |      ||| | |   +- Re: CRT in math testbooksQuinn C
||| |   |      ||| | |   +* Re: CRT in math testbooksRuud Harmsen
||| |   |      ||| | |   |`- Re: CRT in math testbooksruudhar...@gmail.com
||| |   |      ||| | |   +* Re: CRT in math testbooksCDB
||| |   |      ||| | |   |`* Re: CRT in math testbooksMark Brader
||| |   |      ||| | |   | `- Re: CRT in math testbooksCDB
||| |   |      ||| | |   `- Re: CRT in math testbooksJ. J. Lodder
||| |   |      ||| | `- Re: CRT in math testbooksbil...@shaw.ca
||| |   |      ||| `* Re: CRT in math testbooksAdam Funk
||| |   |      ||+* Re: CRT in math testbooksRuud Harmsen
||| |   |      ||`* Re: CRT in math testbooksSam Plusnet
||| |   |      |`- Re: CRT in math testbooksRuud Harmsen
||| |   |      +* Re: CRT in math testbooksPeter T. Daniels
||| |   |      `- Re: CRT in math testbooksTony Cooper
||| |   `* Re: CRT in math testbooksPeter Moylan
||| `* Re: CRT in math testbooksKen Blake
||`* Re: CRT in math testbooksPeter T. Daniels
|+- Re: CRT in math testbooksLewis
|+* Re: CRT in math testbooksPeter T. Daniels
|`* Re: CRT in math testbooksDingbat
`* Re: CRT in math testbooksQuinn C

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Re: CRT in math testbooks

<t5vga4$45f$1@dont-email.me>

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From: rjh...@cpax.org.uk (Richard Heathfield)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: CRT in math testbooks
Date: Tue, 17 May 2022 07:45:22 +0100
Organization: Fix this later
Lines: 57
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 by: Richard Heathfield - Tue, 17 May 2022 06:45 UTC

On 17/05/2022 1:33 am, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 17/05/22 00:19, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>
>> I think your teaspoons are bigger than ours, but "tsp." is a fixed
>> amount, 1/6 fl. oz., probably set many decades ago by some
>> predecessor of the FDA -- the US Food and Drug Administration
>
> A standard teaspoon here, for medical and cooking purposes, is 5
> ml. I
> think that's not very different from your standard [1].
>
> This, by the way, revealed a bug in Google's unit conversion
> system. I typed
>     5 ml in fl oz
> and got the answer
>     7.047 × 10<sup>14</sup> us fluid ounces
> This left me completely mystified, until I noticed the fine
> print. It
> said "5 cubic miles=".

Curious. units(1) gets this right:

$ man 1 units
$ units 1floz ml
* 28.413063
/ 0.03519508

(Imperial flozzes, of course.)

$ units 1usfloz ml
* 29.57353
/ 0.033814023

(American flozzes.)

>
> In the metric system "ml" is the most common abbreviation for
> "milliltre". Does it instead mean "cubic miles" in the USA?

Strange are the ways of our colonial cousins.

> And what sort of profession normally works with cubic miles? It
> sounds
> like a unit with very few practical applications.

Oceanographers? Vulcanologists?

>
> [1] A little searching

.... is a dangerous thing! ;-)

--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

Re: CRT in math testbooks

<ag6clixnku.ln2@news.ducksburg.com>

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From: a24...@ducksburg.com (Adam Funk)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: CRT in math testbooks
Date: Tue, 17 May 2022 10:29:14 +0100
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 by: Adam Funk - Tue, 17 May 2022 09:29 UTC

On 2022-05-17, Peter Moylan wrote:

> On 17/05/22 02:02, Ken Blake wrote:
>
>> I remember seeing a fish store somewhere in China with a sign on the
>> window advertising "crap." I assumed they meant "carp."

Someone told me this is common in some eastern European countries
because the term in some of those languages actually is (or is
transliterated as) "crap". (Sorry, I can't remember which countries or
languages this claim was made about.)

> I once went to a French restaurant in Newcastle that had "lion of lamb"
> on its blackboard menu.

"And the lion will lie down with the lamb, but the lamb won't get much
sleep." (Woody Allen)

--
Science is what we understand well enough to explain to a computer.
Art is everything else we do. ---Donald Knuth

Re: CRT in math testbooks

<tb6clixnku.ln2@news.ducksburg.com>

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From: a24...@ducksburg.com (Adam Funk)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: CRT in math testbooks
Date: Tue, 17 May 2022 10:26:53 +0100
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 by: Adam Funk - Tue, 17 May 2022 09:26 UTC

On 2022-05-17, Peter Moylan wrote:

> On 17/05/22 00:19, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>
>> I think your teaspoons are bigger than ours, but "tsp." is a fixed
>> amount, 1/6 fl. oz., probably set many decades ago by some
>> predecessor of the FDA -- the US Food and Drug Administration
>
> A standard teaspoon here, for medical and cooking purposes, is 5 ml. I
> think that's not very different from your standard [1].
>
> This, by the way, revealed a bug in Google's unit conversion system. I typed
> 5 ml in fl oz
> and got the answer
> 7.047 × 10<sup>14</sup> us fluid ounces
> This left me completely mystified, until I noticed the fine print. It
> said "5 cubic miles=".

Google thinks you're an oceanographer.

> In the metric system "ml" is the most common abbreviation for
> "milliltre". Does it instead mean "cubic miles" in the USA?
>
> And what sort of profession normally works with cubic miles? It sounds
> like a unit with very few practical applications.
>
> [1] A little searching has now told me that the US has two standards. As
> a unit of culinary measure, one teaspoon is 1/6 fl oz. But for
> nutritional labelling and medicine, the standard teaspoon is 5 ml, the
> same as in the rest of the world.

I reckon 1/6 US fl.oz & 5 ml are within 2% of each other. I can't
imagine this will make any difference when using a recipe.

--
they're OK, the last days of May

Re: CRT in math testbooks

<t5vupm$70g$1@dont-email.me>

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From: pet...@pmoylan.org.invalid (Peter Moylan)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: CRT in math testbooks
Date: Tue, 17 May 2022 20:52:35 +1000
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Peter Moylan - Tue, 17 May 2022 10:52 UTC

On 17/05/22 19:26, Adam Funk wrote:
> On 2022-05-17, Peter Moylan wrote:

>> [1] A little searching has now told me that the US has two
>> standards. As a unit of culinary measure, one teaspoon is 1/6 fl
>> oz. But for nutritional labelling and medicine, the standard
>> teaspoon is 5 ml, the same as in the rest of the world.
>
> I reckon 1/6 US fl.oz & 5 ml are within 2% of each other. I can't
> imagine this will make any difference when using a recipe.

Nor for everyday medicine, of course. When I pour cough medicine into a
teaspoon, the amount I get depends on things like how I treat the
meniscus, and nobody cares about variations due to such factors.

I imagine that hospital nurses are told to be more fussy about how they
do measurements. No doubt my wife, who is a nurse, knows the details,
but right now she is busy watching TV.

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

Re: CRT in math testbooks

<t6083j$o60$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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From: Silv...@noncisonopernessuno.it (Silvano)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: CRT in math testbooks
Date: Tue, 17 May 2022 15:31:31 +0200
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 by: Silvano - Tue, 17 May 2022 13:31 UTC

Peter Moylan hat am 17.05.2022 um 02:35 geschrieben:
> On 17/05/22 02:02, Ken Blake wrote:
>
>> I remember seeing a fish store somewhere in China with a sign on the
>> window advertising "crap." I assumed they meant "carp."
>
> I once went to a French restaurant in Newcastle that had "lion of lamb"
> on its blackboard menu.
>

From an Italian restaurant in Berlin: "bistecca di Monza" and "carne di
male".
Literal meaning: "Steak of (à la) Monza" (Monza is famous for the
Formula One Grand Prix) and "meat of evil".

I come from the region of Monza, but I had never heard of a typical
Monza style and the meat of evil was really puzzling. It took me a while
to find the solutions. "Bistecca di manzo", i.e. beefsteak, and "carne
di maiale", i.e. pork.

That restaurant did not last long. :-(

Re: CRT in math testbooks

<99kladimd8ju$.dlg@mid.crommatograph.info>

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From: lispamat...@crommatograph.info (Quinn C)
Subject: Re: CRT in math testbooks
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 by: Quinn C - Tue, 17 May 2022 13:45 UTC

* Silvano:

> Peter Moylan hat am 17.05.2022 um 02:35 geschrieben:
>> On 17/05/22 02:02, Ken Blake wrote:
>>
>>> I remember seeing a fish store somewhere in China with a sign on the
>>> window advertising "crap." I assumed they meant "carp."
>>
>> I once went to a French restaurant in Newcastle that had "lion of lamb"
>> on its blackboard menu.
>>
>
> From an Italian restaurant in Berlin: "bistecca di Monza" and "carne di
> male".
> Literal meaning: "Steak of (à la) Monza" (Monza is famous for the
> Formula One Grand Prix) and "meat of evil".
>
> I come from the region of Monza, but I had never heard of a typical
> Monza style and the meat of evil was really puzzling.

In a restaurant with the right theme/decoration, "meat of evil" could be
popular.

> It took me a while
> to find the solutions. "Bistecca di manzo", i.e. beefsteak,

So Italians call it "beefsteak of beef"? Nice addition to the list of
multi-lingual redundancies.

> and "carne
> di maiale", i.e. pork.
>
> That restaurant did not last long. :-(

--
Quinn C
My pronouns are they/them
(or other gender-neutral ones)

Re: CRT in math testbooks

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Subject: Re: CRT in math testbooks
From: gramma...@verizon.net (Peter T. Daniels)
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 by: Peter T. Daniels - Tue, 17 May 2022 14:54 UTC

On Monday, May 16, 2022 at 8:33:24 PM UTC-4, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 17/05/22 00:19, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>
> > I think your teaspoons are bigger than ours, but "tsp." is a fixed
> > amount, 1/6 fl. oz., probably set many decades ago by some
> > predecessor of the FDA -- the US Food and Drug Administration
> A standard teaspoon here, for medical and cooking purposes, is 5 ml. I
> think that's not very different from your standard [1].
>
> This, by the way, revealed a bug in Google's unit conversion system. I typed
> 5 ml in fl oz
> and got the answer
> 7.047 × 10<sup>14</sup> us fluid ounces
> This left me completely mystified, until I noticed the fine print. It
> said "5 cubic miles=".
>
> In the metric system "ml" is the most common abbreviation for
> "milliltre". Does it instead mean "cubic miles" in the USA?

Did you maybe somehow type a capital eye instead of a minuscule ell?

(The calculator in Windows 10 includes conversions -- it gives
5 ml = 0.16907 fl. oz.; but, curiously, the "default" measurement
for the lower box is 1.014421 tsp.

(The biggest "cubic" thing it offers is yards -- which is the usual
measure for truckloads of concrete. Cf., or not, "The whole 9 yards."

(But in looking for cubic miles I saw that it offers "teaspoons (UK),"
and 1 teaspoon (US) = 0.832674 Teaspoon (UK). It also offers fl.oz.
(UK) up to gallons (UK), but I leave those as an exercise for the reader.)

> And what sort of profession normally works with cubic miles? It sounds
> like a unit with very few practical applications.

Remember when one of the Mars Landers got in trouble because
manufacturers used different unit systems? Maybe ours could
use cubic miles in describing the (non-perfect) vacuum of space
or the density of the atmospheres of the gas giants.

> [1] A little searching has now told me that the US has two standards. As
> a unit of culinary measure, one teaspoon is 1/6 fl oz. But for
> nutritional labelling and medicine, the standard teaspoon is 5 ml, the
> same as in the rest of the world.

As if even the most careful nurse pouring out a dose could make the
difference.

Re: CRT in math testbooks

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From: a24...@ducksburg.com (Adam Funk)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: CRT in math testbooks
Date: Tue, 17 May 2022 16:01:34 +0100
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 by: Adam Funk - Tue, 17 May 2022 15:01 UTC

On 2022-05-17, Peter Moylan wrote:

> On 17/05/22 19:26, Adam Funk wrote:
>> On 2022-05-17, Peter Moylan wrote:
>
>>> [1] A little searching has now told me that the US has two
>>> standards. As a unit of culinary measure, one teaspoon is 1/6 fl
>>> oz. But for nutritional labelling and medicine, the standard
>>> teaspoon is 5 ml, the same as in the rest of the world.
>>
>> I reckon 1/6 US fl.oz & 5 ml are within 2% of each other. I can't
>> imagine this will make any difference when using a recipe.
>
> Nor for everyday medicine, of course. When I pour cough medicine into a
> teaspoon, the amount I get depends on things like how I treat the
> meniscus, and nobody cares about variations due to such factors.
>
> I imagine that hospital nurses are told to be more fussy about how they
> do measurements. No doubt my wife, who is a nurse, knows the details,
> but right now she is busy watching TV.

I suspect that medicines given orally have to have a wider tolerance
on the dosage than those given by other routes, because the first pass
effect varies between individuals & circumstances.

--
Disagreeing with Donald Rumsfeld about bombing anybody who gets in our
way is not a crime in this country. It is a wise and honorable idea
that George Washington and Benjamin Franklin risked their lives for.
---Hunter S Thompson

Re: CRT in math testbooks

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From: adm...@127.0.0.1 (Kerr-Mudd, John)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: CRT in math testbooks
Date: Tue, 17 May 2022 16:25:14 +0100
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 by: Kerr-Mudd, John - Tue, 17 May 2022 15:25 UTC

On Tue, 17 May 2022 07:54:31 -0700 (PDT)
"Peter T. Daniels" <grammatim@verizon.net> wrote:

> On Monday, May 16, 2022 at 8:33:24 PM UTC-4, Peter Moylan wrote:
> > On 17/05/22 00:19, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> >
> > > I think your teaspoons are bigger than ours, but "tsp." is a fixed
> > > amount, 1/6 fl. oz., probably set many decades ago by some
> > > predecessor of the FDA -- the US Food and Drug Administration
> > A standard teaspoon here, for medical and cooking purposes, is 5 ml. I
> > think that's not very different from your standard [1].
[]
> (But in looking for cubic miles I saw that it offers "teaspoons (UK),"
> and 1 teaspoon (US) = 0.832674 Teaspoon (UK). It also offers fl.oz.
> (UK) up to gallons (UK), but I leave those as an exercise for the reader.)
>
[].
>
> Remember when one of the Mars Landers got in trouble because

No.

But I can look stuff up to avoid looking foolish (though I exepct this has and will happen).
https://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/mars-climate-orbiter-team-finds-likely-cause-of-loss

> manufacturers used different unit systems? Maybe ours could
> use cubic miles in describing the (non-perfect) vacuum of space
> or the density of the atmospheres of the gas giants.
>
[]

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

Re: CRT in math testbooks

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From: Ken...@invalid.news.com (Ken Blake)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: CRT in math testbooks
Date: Tue, 17 May 2022 09:18:01 -0700
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 by: Ken Blake - Tue, 17 May 2022 16:18 UTC

On Tue, 17 May 2022 09:45:10 -0400, Quinn C
<lispamateur@crommatograph.info> wrote:

>* Silvano:
>
>> Peter Moylan hat am 17.05.2022 um 02:35 geschrieben:
>>> On 17/05/22 02:02, Ken Blake wrote:
>>>
>>>> I remember seeing a fish store somewhere in China with a sign on the
>>>> window advertising "crap." I assumed they meant "carp."
>>>
>>> I once went to a French restaurant in Newcastle that had "lion of lamb"
>>> on its blackboard menu.
>>>
>>
>> From an Italian restaurant in Berlin: "bistecca di Monza" and "carne di
>> male".
>> Literal meaning: "Steak of (à la) Monza" (Monza is famous for the
>> Formula One Grand Prix) and "meat of evil".
>>
>> I come from the region of Monza, but I had never heard of a typical
>> Monza style and the meat of evil was really puzzling.
>
>In a restaurant with the right theme/decoration, "meat of evil" could be
>popular.
>
>> It took me a while
>> to find the solutions. "Bistecca di manzo", i.e. beefsteak,
>
>So Italians call it "beefsteak of beef"?

No. That particular restaurant in Berlin apparently did. In Italy,
it's just called "bistecca."

Re: CRT in math testbooks

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From: Ken...@invalid.news.com (Ken Blake)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: CRT in math testbooks
Date: Tue, 17 May 2022 09:21:19 -0700
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 by: Ken Blake - Tue, 17 May 2022 16:21 UTC

On Tue, 17 May 2022 10:33:10 +1000, Peter Moylan
<peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:

>On 17/05/22 00:19, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>
>> I think your teaspoons are bigger than ours, but "tsp." is a fixed
>> amount, 1/6 fl. oz., probably set many decades ago by some
>> predecessor of the FDA -- the US Food and Drug Administration
>
>A standard teaspoon here, for medical and cooking purposes, is 5 ml. I
>think that's not very different from your standard [1].
>
>This, by the way, revealed a bug in Google's unit conversion system. I typed
> 5 ml in fl oz
>and got the answer
> 7.047 × 10<sup>14</sup> us fluid ounces
>This left me completely mystified, until I noticed the fine print. It
>said "5 cubic miles=".
>
>In the metric system "ml" is the most common abbreviation for
>"milliltre". Does it instead mean "cubic miles" in the USA?

No. I would also read it as milliliters.

>And what sort of profession normally works with cubic miles? It sounds
>like a unit with very few practical applications.

Yes.

>[1] A little searching has now told me that the US has two standards. As
>a unit of culinary measure, one teaspoon is 1/6 fl oz. But for
>nutritional labelling and medicine, the standard teaspoon is 5 ml, the
>same as in the rest of the world.

Re: CRT in math testbooks

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From: Silv...@noncisonopernessuno.it (Silvano)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: CRT in math testbooks
Date: Tue, 17 May 2022 18:22:41 +0200
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
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 by: Silvano - Tue, 17 May 2022 16:22 UTC

Quinn C hat am 17.05.2022 um 15:45 geschrieben:
>> I come from the region of Monza, but I had never heard of a typical
>> Monza style and the meat of evil was really puzzling.
>
> In a restaurant with the right theme/decoration, "meat of evil" could be
> popular.

Indeed.

>> It took me a while
>> to find the solutions. "Bistecca di manzo", i.e. beefsteak,
>
> So Italians call it "beefsteak of beef"? Nice addition to the list of
> multi-lingual redundancies.

It's not redundant in Italian. Over there it's a certain kind of meat
cut, not necessarily a cut of beef.

Re: CRT in math testbooks

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From: rh...@rudhar.com (Ruud Harmsen)
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Subject: Re: CRT in math testbooks
Date: Tue, 17 May 2022 19:16:31 +0200
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 by: Ruud Harmsen - Tue, 17 May 2022 17:16 UTC

Tue, 17 May 2022 07:45:22 +0100: Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk>
scribeva:

>On 17/05/2022 1:33 am, Peter Moylan wrote:
>> On 17/05/22 00:19, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>>
>>> I think your teaspoons are bigger than ours, but "tsp." is a fixed
>>> amount, 1/6 fl. oz., probably set many decades ago by some
>>> predecessor of the FDA -- the US Food and Drug Administration
>>
>> A standard teaspoon here, for medical and cooking purposes, is 5
>> ml. I
>> think that's not very different from your standard [1].
>>
>> This, by the way, revealed a bug in Google's unit conversion
>> system. I typed
>>     5 ml in fl oz
>> and got the answer
>>     7.047 × 10<sup>14</sup> us fluid ounces
>> This left me completely mystified, until I noticed the fine
>> print. It
>> said "5 cubic miles=".
>
>Curious. units(1) gets this right:
>
>$ man 1 units
>$ units 1floz ml
>* 28.413063
>/ 0.03519508

Nice one, didn't know that.

>(Imperial flozzes, of course.)
>
>$ units 1usfloz ml
>* 29.57353
>/ 0.033814023
>
>(American flozzes.)

Mine, installed under Linux Mint (bases on Ubuntu/Debian) gives the US
variant by default, and I don't how to specificy the other one.

RTFM:
"When British capacity units differ from their US counterparts, such
as the British Imperial gallon, the unit is defined both ways with
‘br’ and ‘us’ prefixes. Your locale settings will determine the
value of the unprefixed unit."

Until now, I always used Convert by Josh Madison:
https://joshmadison.com/convert-for-windows/
For Windows, but works well under Wine.

Re: CRT in math testbooks

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From: rh...@rudhar.com (Ruud Harmsen)
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Subject: Re: CRT in math testbooks
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 by: Ruud Harmsen - Tue, 17 May 2022 17:36 UTC

A US gallon is 231 cubic inch. 231 = 3×7×11. For conveniently sized
gas tanks, in inches and feet?

I used to know where the difference between the US and UK starts,
somewhere at integer numbers. But I can't find it.

Or no, that was with weights. (Or Force, as Josh Madison correctly
labeled it.) No, mass! A troy ounce is 480 grains. An avoirdupois
ounce is 437,5 grain. Double that is 875. So 960/875 is where they go
their separate ways.

See also my gold table at https://rudhar.com/gold/en.stm
An avoirdupois pound is 5760 grains.
A troy pound is 7000 grains.

Re: CRT in math testbooks

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From: a24...@ducksburg.com (Adam Funk)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: CRT in math testbooks
Date: Tue, 17 May 2022 19:13:33 +0100
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 by: Adam Funk - Tue, 17 May 2022 18:13 UTC

On 2022-05-17, Quinn C wrote:

> * Silvano:
>
>> Peter Moylan hat am 17.05.2022 um 02:35 geschrieben:
>>> On 17/05/22 02:02, Ken Blake wrote:
>>>
>>>> I remember seeing a fish store somewhere in China with a sign on the
>>>> window advertising "crap." I assumed they meant "carp."
>>>
>>> I once went to a French restaurant in Newcastle that had "lion of lamb"
>>> on its blackboard menu.
>>>
>>
>> From an Italian restaurant in Berlin: "bistecca di Monza" and "carne di
>> male".
>> Literal meaning: "Steak of (à la) Monza" (Monza is famous for the
>> Formula One Grand Prix) and "meat of evil".
>>
>> I come from the region of Monza, but I had never heard of a typical
>> Monza style and the meat of evil was really puzzling.
>
> In a restaurant with the right theme/decoration, "meat of evil" could be
> popular.

The (former) Cabaret de l'Enfer in Montmartre?

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cabaret_de_L%27Enfer>

(Demolished in 1950 so the Monoprix next door could expand. I didn't
know about the Cabaret at the time, but I have shopped in that
Monoprix.)

>
>> It took me a while
>> to find the solutions. "Bistecca di manzo", i.e. beefsteak,
>
> So Italians call it "beefsteak of beef"? Nice addition to the list of
> multi-lingual redundancies.
>
>> and "carne
>> di maiale", i.e. pork.
>>
>> That restaurant did not last long. :-(
>

--
They do (play, that is), and nobody gets killed, but Metallic K.O. is
the only rock album I know where you can actually hear hurled beer
bottles breaking against guitar strings. ---Lester Bangs

Re: CRT in math testbooks

<t60s4o$jp4$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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From: Silv...@noncisonopernessuno.it (Silvano)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: CRT in math testbooks
Date: Tue, 17 May 2022 21:13:29 +0200
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 by: Silvano - Tue, 17 May 2022 19:13 UTC

Ken Blake hat am 17.05.2022 um 18:18 geschrieben:
> On Tue, 17 May 2022 09:45:10 -0400, Quinn C
> <lispamateur@crommatograph.info> wrote:
>
>> * Silvano:
>>
>>> Peter Moylan hat am 17.05.2022 um 02:35 geschrieben:
>>>> On 17/05/22 02:02, Ken Blake wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I remember seeing a fish store somewhere in China with a sign on the
>>>>> window advertising "crap." I assumed they meant "carp."
>>>>
>>>> I once went to a French restaurant in Newcastle that had "lion of lamb"
>>>> on its blackboard menu.
>>>>
>>>
>>> From an Italian restaurant in Berlin: "bistecca di Monza" and "carne di
>>> male".
>>> Literal meaning: "Steak of (à la) Monza" (Monza is famous for the
>>> Formula One Grand Prix) and "meat of evil".
>>>
>>> I come from the region of Monza, but I had never heard of a typical
>>> Monza style and the meat of evil was really puzzling.
>>
>> In a restaurant with the right theme/decoration, "meat of evil" could be
>> popular.
>>
>>> It took me a while
>>> to find the solutions. "Bistecca di manzo", i.e. beefsteak,
>>
>> So Italians call it "beefsteak of beef"?
>
>
> No. That particular restaurant in Berlin apparently did. In Italy,
> it's just called "bistecca."

Yes, if it's made from beef. Usually, it is.
No, if it's made from another kind of meat.

Re: CRT in math testbooks

<MsOBulqC2BhiFAZ$@wolff.co.uk>

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From: bounc...@thiswontwork.wolff.co.uk (Paul Wolff)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: CRT in math testbooks
Date: Tue, 17 May 2022 23:11:14 +0100
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 by: Paul Wolff - Tue, 17 May 2022 22:11 UTC

On Tue, 17 May 2022, at 10:33:10, Peter Moylan posted:
>On 17/05/22 00:19, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>
>> I think your teaspoons are bigger than ours, but "tsp." is a fixed
>> amount, 1/6 fl. oz., probably set many decades ago by some
>> predecessor of the FDA -- the US Food and Drug Administration

In round figures, I think of a fl. oz. as 30ml. If I concentrate, I come
up with 28.5ml. It won't matter, at a cookery level of precision.
>
>A standard teaspoon here, for medical and cooking purposes, is 5 ml. I
>think that's not very different from your standard [1].
>
>This, by the way, revealed a bug in Google's unit conversion system. I typed
> 5 ml in fl oz
>and got the answer
> 7.047 × 10<sup>14</sup> us fluid ounces
>This left me completely mystified, until I noticed the fine print. It
>said "5 cubic miles=".
>
>In the metric system "ml" is the most common abbreviation for
>"milliltre". Does it instead mean "cubic miles" in the USA?
>
>And what sort of profession normally works with cubic miles? It sounds
>like a unit with very few practical applications.
>
>[1] A little searching has now told me that the US has two standards. As
>a unit of culinary measure, one teaspoon is 1/6 fl oz. But for
>nutritional labelling and medicine, the standard teaspoon is 5 ml, the
>same as in the rest of the world.
>
My small-volume cooking ingredient measures are calibrated in ml, but I
still get baffled by recipes that call for a number of "heaped
teaspoonfuls". How far over the 5ml gradation should I go?

Similarly for heaped dessertspoons (of 10ml) and tablespoons (of 15ml).
--
Paul

Re: CRT in math testbooks

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From: pet...@pmoylan.org.invalid (Peter Moylan)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: CRT in math testbooks
Date: Wed, 18 May 2022 10:35:55 +1000
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 by: Peter Moylan - Wed, 18 May 2022 00:35 UTC

On 18/05/22 08:11, Paul Wolff wrote:

> My small-volume cooking ingredient measures are calibrated in ml, but
> I still get baffled by recipes that call for a number of "heaped
> teaspoonfuls". How far over the 5ml gradation should I go?
>
> Similarly for heaped dessertspoons (of 10ml) and tablespoons (of
> 15ml).

A heaped teaspoonful is repeatedly reliable for dry granular stuff like
sugar or salt. It is useless for moist materials, or powdery things like
flour.

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

Re: CRT in math testbooks

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From: pet...@pmoylan.org.invalid (Peter Moylan)
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Subject: Re: CRT in math testbooks
Date: Wed, 18 May 2022 10:39:43 +1000
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 by: Peter Moylan - Wed, 18 May 2022 00:39 UTC

On 17/05/22 23:31, Silvano wrote:

> From an Italian restaurant in Berlin: "bistecca di Monza" and "carne di
> male".

Just imagine English-speaking tourists trying to figure out what "male
meat" is.

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

Re: CRT in math testbooks

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 by: Sam Plusnet - Wed, 18 May 2022 00:42 UTC

On 17-May-22 23:11, Paul Wolff wrote:

> My small-volume cooking ingredient measures are calibrated in ml, but I
> still get baffled by recipes that call for a number of "heaped
> teaspoonfuls". How far over the 5ml gradation should I go?

If it's water, the meniscus should decide for you.
>
> Similarly for heaped dessertspoons (of 10ml) and tablespoons (of 15ml).

We have a few different designs of teaspoon, and a few of those plastic
5ml spoons that come with cough linctus etc.
The teaspoons vary quite a lot in size, but they are all smaller than
the 5ml spoons.

--
Sam Plusnet

Re: CRT in math testbooks

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From: lar...@invalid.ca (lar3ryca)
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Subject: Re: CRT in math testbooks
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 by: lar3ryca - Wed, 18 May 2022 01:11 UTC

On 2022-05-17 18:39, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 17/05/22 23:31, Silvano wrote:
>
>>  From an Italian restaurant in Berlin: "bistecca di Monza" and "carne di
>> male".
>
> Just imagine English-speaking tourists trying to figure out what "male
> meat" is.

Two Asian ladies newly arrived in New York City, stop for lunch at a hot
dog stand, and each orders a hot dog. The first one unwraps hers, gasps,
and says to the other one "What part of the dog did you get?"

--
I am the Ghost of Christmas Future Perfect Subjunctive.
I will show you what would have happened, were you not to have changed
your ways.

Re: CRT in math testbooks

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From: lar...@invalid.ca (lar3ryca)
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Subject: Re: CRT in math testbooks
Date: Tue, 17 May 2022 19:14:19 -0600
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 by: lar3ryca - Wed, 18 May 2022 01:14 UTC

On 2022-05-17 18:42, Sam Plusnet wrote:
> On 17-May-22 23:11, Paul Wolff wrote:
>
>> My small-volume cooking ingredient measures are calibrated in ml, but
>> I still get baffled by recipes that call for a number of "heaped
>> teaspoonfuls". How far over the 5ml gradation should I go?
>
> If it's water, the meniscus should decide for you.
>>
>> Similarly for heaped dessertspoons (of 10ml) and tablespoons (of 15ml).
>
> We have a few different designs of teaspoon, and a few of those plastic
> 5ml spoons that come with cough linctus etc.
> The teaspoons vary quite a lot in size, but they are all smaller than
> the 5ml spoons.

linctus: new word for me.

I would say 'cough syrup.

--
Some people say, contractions in the English language are difficult.
Indeed, they're.

Re: CRT in math testbooks

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From: pet...@pmoylan.org.invalid (Peter Moylan)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: CRT in math testbooks
Date: Wed, 18 May 2022 12:44:09 +1000
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 by: Peter Moylan - Wed, 18 May 2022 02:44 UTC

On 18/05/22 10:35, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 18/05/22 08:11, Paul Wolff wrote:
>
>> My small-volume cooking ingredient measures are calibrated in ml, but
>> I still get baffled by recipes that call for a number of "heaped
>> teaspoonfuls". How far over the 5ml gradation should I go?
>>
>> Similarly for heaped dessertspoons (of 10ml) and tablespoons (of
>> 15ml).
>
> A heaped teaspoonful is repeatedly reliable for dry granular stuff like
> sugar or salt. It is useless for moist materials, or powdery things like
> flour.

Sorry, I meant to write repeatably. Repeatedly is a different word.

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

Re: CRT in math testbooks

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From: enom...@meer.net (Madhu)
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Subject: Re: CRT in math testbooks
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 by: Madhu - Wed, 18 May 2022 02:57 UTC

* lar3ryca <t61h3g$eer$1 @dont-email.me> :
Wrote on Tue, 17 May 2022 19:11:11 -0600:
> On 2022-05-17 18:39, Peter Moylan wrote:
>> On 17/05/22 23:31, Silvano wrote:
>>>  From an Italian restaurant in Berlin: "bistecca di Monza" and
>>> "carne di male".
>> Just imagine English-speaking tourists trying to figure out what
>> "male meat" is.
>
> Two Asian ladies newly arrived in New York City, stop for lunch at a
> hot dog stand, and each orders a hot dog. The first one unwraps hers,
> gasps, and says to the other one "What part of the dog did you get?"

There was some vietnamese restaurant + male meat joke (not the some
young guy and dumb fuck soup one, another one) but if i knew it i've
forgotten it.

"Ethnics"

Re: CRT in math testbooks

<c63b4dcf-e950-4c06-bc8b-e13a3f302245n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: CRT in math testbooks
From: jerry_fr...@yahoo.com (Jerry Friedman)
Injection-Date: Wed, 18 May 2022 03:33:45 +0000
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 by: Jerry Friedman - Wed, 18 May 2022 03:33 UTC

On Monday, May 9, 2022 at 12:05:43 AM UTC-6, Lewis wrote:
> In message <j06g7h12h3g3tvj5t...@4ax.com> Tony Cooper <tonyco...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > "Retconning" is "retroactive continuity" and explained as when the
> > form or content of a previously established narrative is changed.
> Close, but not quite. A retcon is a new piece of information that
> changes the perception or meaning of previous events, but is not
> changing what was stated before, but more like adding to it or casting
> it in a new light.
>
> "We have always been at war with Eastasia" is not a retcon, for example.
>
> A good and somewhat well-known example is the retcon that the person who
> murdered Bruce Wayne's parents was actually the Joker. It didn't change
> any of the known facts or narrative in the original story, just added
> element that the shooter was the man who became The Joker.
>
> My favorite retcon, however, is Bucky Barnes, dead for 40 years and
> considered un-retcon-able, in 2005 Marvel did just that. They did it
> well, and it was rather brilliant.
>
> As far as I know the term originated among comic fans in the 1980s when
> both DC and Marvel were making extensive changes to their characters. I
> first encountered it on rec.arts.comics in... 1989?, but I have no idea
> if that was its origin.
>
> It's only been recently that I've noticed it being used for things other
> than comic books, mostly for TV and movies, but the term itself has been
> applied to retcons from before retcon was a thing.

Is Sherlock Holmes surviving at Reichenbach Falls a retcon? How about the
revisions to Bilbo's finding the Ring?

--
Jerry Friedman

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