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interests / alt.usage.english / Re: Asshat

SubjectAuthor
* Asshatoccam
+- Re: Asshatspains...@gmail.com
+* Re: AsshatKen Blake
|`- Re: AsshatLewis
+* Re: AsshatSam Plusnet
|`* Re: AsshatRoss Clark
| +* Re: Asshatlar3ryca
| |+* Re: AsshatPaul Carmichael
| ||+* Re: Asshatoccam
| |||`- Re: AsshatPaul Carmichael
| ||+- Re: AsshatPeter T. Daniels
| ||`* Re: AsshatLewis
| || `- Re: AsshatPaul Carmichael
| |+* Re: AsshatKen Blake
| ||`* Re: Asshatlar3ryca
| || +* Re: AsshatKen Blake
| || |`* Re: Asshatlar3ryca
| || | `* Re: Asshatoccam
| || |  `* Re: Asshatlar3ryca
| || |   +* Re: AsshatTony Cooper
| || |   |`* Re: AsshatPeter Moylan
| || |   | +- Re: AsshatKen Blake
| || |   | `* Re: AsshatJerry Friedman
| || |   |  +* Re: Asshatoccam
| || |   |  |`* Re: AsshatSnidely
| || |   |  | `* Re: AsshatJerry Friedman
| || |   |  |  `- Re: AsshatKen Blake
| || |   |  `* Re: AsshatPeter Moylan
| || |   |   +- Re: AsshatRuud Harmsen
| || |   |   `- Re: AsshatQuinn C
| || |   +- Re: AsshatSnidely
| || |   +* Re: AsshatPeter T. Daniels
| || |   |+* Re: AsshatKerr-Mudd, John
| || |   ||`* Re: Asshatlar3ryca
| || |   || +- Re: AsshatPeter T. Daniels
| || |   || `- Re: AsshatKerr-Mudd, John
| || |   |+* Re: AsshatQuinn C
| || |   ||`* Re: AsshatPeter T. Daniels
| || |   || `- Re: AsshatQuinn C
| || |   |`* Re: AsshatRuud Harmsen
| || |   | +- Re: Asshatlar3ryca
| || |   | `* Re: AsshatJerry Friedman
| || |   |  +- Re: AsshatQuinn C
| || |   |  +* Re: AsshatRuud Harmsen
| || |   |  |`* Re: AsshatAnders D. Nygaard
| || |   |  | `- Re: AsshatSnidely
| || |   |  `* Re: AsshatPeter T. Daniels
| || |   |   `* Re: AsshatJerry Friedman
| || |   |    +* Re: AsshatSam Plusnet
| || |   |    |`* Re: AsshatKerr-Mudd, John
| || |   |    | +* Re: AsshatPeter Moylan
| || |   |    | |+* Re: AsshatKerr-Mudd, John
| || |   |    | ||+* Re: AsshatJerry Friedman
| || |   |    | |||`* Re: AsshatKerr-Mudd, John
| || |   |    | ||| `- Re: AsshatMadhu
| || |   |    | ||`- Re: AsshatSam Plusnet
| || |   |    | |`* Re: AsshatPeter T. Daniels
| || |   |    | | `* Re: AsshatMadhu
| || |   |    | |  `* Re: AsshatPeter T. Daniels
| || |   |    | |   `* Re: AsshatMadhu
| || |   |    | |    +* Re: AsshatPeter T. Daniels
| || |   |    | |    |`* Re: AsshatMadhu
| || |   |    | |    | +* Re: AsshatPeter T. Daniels
| || |   |    | |    | |`* Re: AsshatMadhu
| || |   |    | |    | | +* Re: AsshatJerry Friedman
| || |   |    | |    | | |`* Re: AsshatMadhu
| || |   |    | |    | | | `- Re: AsshatPeter T. Daniels
| || |   |    | |    | | `- Re: AsshatPeter T. Daniels
| || |   |    | |    | `- Re: AsshatQuinn C
| || |   |    | |    `* Re: AsshatJerry Friedman
| || |   |    | |     +* Re: AsshatQuinn C
| || |   |    | |     |+- Re: AsshatJerry Friedman
| || |   |    | |     |`- Re: AsshatQuinn C
| || |   |    | |     `* Re: AsshatPeter T. Daniels
| || |   |    | |      `- Re: AsshatPeter Moylan
| || |   |    | +- Re: AsshatCDB
| || |   |    | +- Re: AsshatJerry Friedman
| || |   |    | `* Re: AsshatQuinn C
| || |   |    |  +* Re: Asshatbil...@shaw.ca
| || |   |    |  |`* Re: AsshatKerr-Mudd, John
| || |   |    |  | `* Re: Asshatlar3ryca
| || |   |    |  |  +* Re: AsshatPeter Moylan
| || |   |    |  |  |+- Re: Asshatlar3ryca
| || |   |    |  |  |`- Re: Asshatbil...@shaw.ca
| || |   |    |  |  `- Re: AsshatQuinn C
| || |   |    |  `* Re: AsshatKerr-Mudd, John
| || |   |    |   +- Re: AsshatSam Plusnet
| || |   |    |   `* Re: AsshatQuinn C
| || |   |    |    `- Re: AsshatKerr-Mudd, John
| || |   |    `- Re: AsshatPeter T. Daniels
| || |   `* Re: AsshatKen Blake
| || |    `- Re: AsshatKen Blake
| || `- Re: AsshatSnidely
| |`* Re: AsshatQuinn C
| | +* Re: Asshatlar3ryca
| | |`- Re: AsshatKen Blake
| | `* Re: AsshatSnidely
| |  `- Re: AsshatQuinn C
| `- Re: AsshatMadhu
`* Re: AsshatPeter Moylan
 `* Re: AsshatCDB

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Re: Asshat

<0f4c001b-422b-4ecf-b7dd-628caea14941n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: Asshat
From: gramma...@verizon.net (Peter T. Daniels)
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 by: Peter T. Daniels - Tue, 17 May 2022 18:26 UTC

On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 2:04:15 PM UTC-4, Quinn C wrote:
> * Peter T. Daniels:
> > On Monday, May 16, 2022 at 10:51:04 PM UTC-4, lar3ryca wrote:
> >> On 2022-05-16 01:02, occam wrote:
> >>> What about the commandment: "Thou Shalt Not Covet Thy Neighbour's ...
> >>> Ass". Would your mind go to your neighbour's posterior, or her donkey?
> >> No idea. Is that a real commandment?
> > lmgtfy.
> > No, do it your lazy (not to mention ignorant) self.
> > Imagine someone raised in Western Civilization who is not familiar
> > with the Decalogue.
>
> Imagine someone not familiar with irony.

You're not really suggesting that lar3 is capable of irony, are you?

> It's clear that it's not a real commandment because the neighbor is a
> she. For the writers of the Bible, a woman couldn't be a neighbor in her
> own right, only a neighbor's wife.

KJV. Exod 20:17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not
covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his
ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

(Roman Catholics think that's two commandments, so that they can
ignore the "graven images" one by conjoining it to the one before it.)

Re: Asshat

<e5e20b27-ec34-44ee-8845-c3d6ed53a4f6n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: Asshat
From: gramma...@verizon.net (Peter T. Daniels)
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 by: Peter T. Daniels - Tue, 17 May 2022 18:27 UTC

On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 1:30:44 PM UTC-4, lar3ryca wrote:
> On 2022-05-17 09:19, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
> > On Tue, 17 May 2022 07:35:22 -0700 (PDT)
> > "Peter T. Daniels" <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
> >> On Monday, May 16, 2022 at 10:51:04 PM UTC-4, lar3ryca wrote:
> >>> On 2022-05-16 01:02, occam wrote:

> >>>> What about the commandment: "Thou Shalt Not Covet Thy Neighbour's ...
> >>>> Ass". Would your mind go to your neighbour's posterior, or her donkey?
> >>> No idea. Is that a real commandment?
> >> lmgtfy.
> >> No, do it your lazy (not to mention ignorant) self.
> >> Imagine someone raised in Western Civilization who is not familiar
> >> with the Decalogue.
> > Imagine no possessions.

The the Tenth Commandment applies vacuously.

> Imagine no PtD (Peter the Donkey).
>
> I won't look it up because I don't give a rat's ass.

Uh-oh, we must have a Fake Lar3 to go with Fake Blake, who
asked plaintively, "Is that a real commandment?"

Re: Asshat

<jei7sjFfo4lU1@mid.individual.net>

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From: nob...@nowhere.nix (occam)
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Subject: Re: Asshat
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 by: occam - Tue, 17 May 2022 18:29 UTC

On 17/05/2022 18:05, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 4:09:38 AM UTC-6, Peter Moylan wrote:
>> On 17/05/22 14:55, Tony Cooper wrote:
>>> On Mon, 16 May 2022 20:50:58 -0600, lar3ryca <la...@invalid.ca>
>>> wrote:
>>>> On 2022-05-16 01:02, occam wrote:
>>
>>>>> What about the commandment: "Thou Shalt Not Covet Thy Neighbour's
>>>>> ... Ass". Would your mind go to your neighbour's posterior, or
>>>>> her donkey?
>>>>
>>>> No idea. Is that a real commandment?
>>>>
>>>> An informal survey I did today yielded opinions from 3 folks. All
>>>> said they would not think of a donkey unless the context was very
>>>> obvious. A brother-in-law said that if he heard someone say, while
>>>> pointing to a donkey, and saying "that's a really small ass', he
>>>> would be as likely to answer "That's a pretty normal looking ass on
>>>> the donkey", as anything else.
>>>>
>>>> They all agreed they had heard someone use the word ass when
>>>> referring to a donkey, but that it was seldom, and unusual.
>>>>
>>> The understood meaning of "Don't be an ass" is:
>>>
>>> https://photos.smugmug.com/ANIMALS/i-xXhSSST/0/dcae4050/X3/2009-04-30-1-X3.jpg
>> A regular in this group - and I'm ashamed to admit I've forgotten who it
>> was - expressed it a little differently:
>>
>> <quote>
>> A burrow is a hole in the ground. A burro is a donkey. As a journalist,
>> you are supposed to know the difference.
>> </quote>
>
> I've quoted or misquoted that here. Evan Kirshenbaum gave an earlier version, from 1975.
>
> https://groups.google.com/g/alt.usage.english/c/vCg6P1wZElA/m/2cTJSSySH84J
>

Jerry, welcome back!

Re: Asshat

<mn.8adb7e65dca5001f.127094@snitoo>

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From: snidely....@gmail.com (Snidely)
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Subject: Re: Asshat
Date: Tue, 17 May 2022 12:11:00 -0700
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 by: Snidely - Tue, 17 May 2022 19:11 UTC

On Tuesday, occam exclaimed wildly:
> On 17/05/2022 18:05, Jerry Friedman wrote:
>> On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 4:09:38 AM UTC-6, Peter Moylan wrote:
>>> On 17/05/22 14:55, Tony Cooper wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 16 May 2022 20:50:58 -0600, lar3ryca <la...@invalid.ca>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> On 2022-05-16 01:02, occam wrote:
>>>>>> What about the commandment: "Thou Shalt Not Covet Thy Neighbour's
>>>>>> ... Ass". Would your mind go to your neighbour's posterior, or
>>>>>> her donkey?
>>>>>
>>>>> No idea. Is that a real commandment?
>>>>>
>>>>> An informal survey I did today yielded opinions from 3 folks. All
>>>>> said they would not think of a donkey unless the context was very
>>>>> obvious. A brother-in-law said that if he heard someone say, while
>>>>> pointing to a donkey, and saying "that's a really small ass', he
>>>>> would be as likely to answer "That's a pretty normal looking ass on
>>>>> the donkey", as anything else.
>>>>>
>>>>> They all agreed they had heard someone use the word ass when
>>>>> referring to a donkey, but that it was seldom, and unusual.
>>>>>
>>>> The understood meaning of "Don't be an ass" is:
>>>>
>>>> https://photos.smugmug.com/ANIMALS/i-xXhSSST/0/dcae4050/X3/2009-04-30-1-X3.jpg
>>> A regular in this group - and I'm ashamed to admit I've forgotten who it
>>> was - expressed it a little differently:
>>>
>>> <quote>
>>> A burrow is a hole in the ground. A burro is a donkey. As a journalist,
>>> you are supposed to know the difference.
>>> </quote>
>>
>> I've quoted or misquoted that here. Evan Kirshenbaum gave an earlier
>> version, from 1975.
>>
>> https://groups.google.com/g/alt.usage.english/c/vCg6P1wZElA/m/2cTJSSySH84J
>>
>
> Jerry, welcome back!

My thoughts exactly!

/dps "Let's not scare him away"

--
Ieri, oggi, domani

Re: Asshat

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From: adm...@127.0.0.1 (Kerr-Mudd, John)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Asshat
Date: Tue, 17 May 2022 20:54:20 +0100
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GNU: Terry Pratchett
 by: Kerr-Mudd, John - Tue, 17 May 2022 19:54 UTC

On Tue, 17 May 2022 11:30:40 -0600
lar3ryca <larry@invalid.ca> wrote:

> On 2022-05-17 09:19, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
> > On Tue, 17 May 2022 07:35:22 -0700 (PDT)
> > "Peter T. Daniels" <grammatim@verizon.net> wrote:
> >
> >> On Monday, May 16, 2022 at 10:51:04 PM UTC-4, lar3ryca wrote:
> >>> On 2022-05-16 01:02, occam wrote:
> >>
> >>>> What about the commandment: "Thou Shalt Not Covet Thy Neighbour's ...
> >>>> Ass". Would your mind go to your neighbour's posterior, or her donkey?
> >>>
> >>> No idea. Is that a real commandment?
> >>
> >> lmgtfy.
> >>
> >> No, do it your lazy (not to mention ignorant) self.
> >>
> >> Imagine someone raised in Western Civilization who is not familiar
> >> with the Decalogue.
> >
> > Imagine no possessions.
It's easy if you try.
>
> Imagine no PtD (Peter the Donkey).
>
> I won't look it up because I don't give a rat's ass.
>
>
In the UK we are "blessed" by a presenter duo called 'Ant and Dec'. I don't think there's an Antalogue, and a Catalogue is something else. A Monologue is just one long commandment?

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

Re: Asshat

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Subject: Re: Asshat
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 by: lar3ryca - Tue, 17 May 2022 19:58 UTC

On 2022-05-17 12:12, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
> Tue, 17 May 2022 07:35:22 -0700 (PDT): "Peter T. Daniels"
> <grammatim@verizon.net> scribeva:
>> Imagine someone raised in Western Civilization who is not familiar
>> with the Decalogue.
>
> I know them since childhood ("De Tien Geboden"), but not this word
> Dekalog. I recognised the Greek elements, of course, and guessed the
> meaning.
> Confirmed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dekalog
> The Ten Commandments.

The last time I read the ten commandments was probably in the early 50s,
probably a short time before I stopped going to 'Sunday School' and/or
church.

From that faded memory, I seem to recall that it was something like
'Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife', and though I could be
wrong, I really don't care.

Re: Asshat

<9b57b9f2-825f-4fe4-9dd1-108610a77313n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: Asshat
From: jerry_fr...@yahoo.com (Jerry Friedman)
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 by: Jerry Friedman - Tue, 17 May 2022 20:08 UTC

On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 1:11:08 PM UTC-6, snide...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, occam exclaimed wildly:
> > On 17/05/2022 18:05, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> >> On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 4:09:38 AM UTC-6, Peter Moylan wrote:
....

> >>> A regular in this group - and I'm ashamed to admit I've forgotten who it
> >>> was - expressed it a little differently:
> >>>
> >>> <quote>
> >>> A burrow is a hole in the ground. A burro is a donkey. As a journalist,
> >>> you are supposed to know the difference.
> >>> </quote>
> >>
> >> I've quoted or misquoted that here. Evan Kirshenbaum gave an earlier
> >> version, from 1975.
> >>
> >> https://groups.google.com/g/alt.usage.english/c/vCg6P1wZElA/m/2cTJSSySH84J
> >>
> >
> > Jerry, welcome back!

> My thoughts exactly!

Thank you both! It's good to be back.

--
Jerry Friedman

Re: Asshat

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 by: Ken Blake - Tue, 17 May 2022 20:17 UTC

On Tue, 17 May 2022 13:08:14 -0700 (PDT), Jerry Friedman
<jerry_friedman@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 1:11:08 PM UTC-6, snide...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Tuesday, occam exclaimed wildly:
>> > On 17/05/2022 18:05, Jerry Friedman wrote:
>> >> On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 4:09:38 AM UTC-6, Peter Moylan wrote:
>...
>
>> >>> A regular in this group - and I'm ashamed to admit I've forgotten who it
>> >>> was - expressed it a little differently:
>> >>>
>> >>> <quote>
>> >>> A burrow is a hole in the ground. A burro is a donkey. As a journalist,
>> >>> you are supposed to know the difference.
>> >>> </quote>
>> >>
>> >> I've quoted or misquoted that here. Evan Kirshenbaum gave an earlier
>> >> version, from 1975.
>> >>
>> >> https://groups.google.com/g/alt.usage.english/c/vCg6P1wZElA/m/2cTJSSySH84J
>> >>
>> >
>> > Jerry, welcome back!
>
>> My thoughts exactly!
>
>Thank you both! It's good to be back.

Welcome back from me, too.

Re: Asshat

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 by: Jerry Friedman - Tue, 17 May 2022 20:39 UTC

On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 12:12:36 PM UTC-6, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
> Tue, 17 May 2022 07:35:22 -0700 (PDT): "Peter T. Daniels"
> <gram...@verizon.net> scribeva:
> >Imagine someone raised in Western Civilization who is not familiar
> >with the Decalogue.

> I know them

"I have known them" or "I've known them", even in the U.S. A very difficult
point for speakers of many languages.

> since childhood ("De Tien Geboden"), but not this word
> Dekalog. I recognised the Greek elements, of course, and guessed the
> meaning.
> Confirmed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dekalog
> The Ten Commandments.

This is not /completely/ irrelevant. In Hebrew it's "the ten sayings" (`aseret
ha-dibrot or `aseret ha-divrey, the former being modern Hebrew as at the
Hebrew Wikipedia, and the latter being from Exodus 34:28). The Septuagint
for that verse has τοὺς δέκα λόγους, tous deka logous, and the OED says
"dekalogos" occurs elsewhere in the Septuagint. As PTD said, the first one
is "I am Yahweh your God..." which is not a commandment. Wikipedia
tabulates eight ways in which different religions or traditions break the passage
up into ten sayings or commandments.

--
Jerry Friedman

Re: Asshat

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 by: Quinn C - Tue, 17 May 2022 23:04 UTC

* Jerry Friedman:

> On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 12:12:36 PM UTC-6, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
>> Tue, 17 May 2022 07:35:22 -0700 (PDT): "Peter T. Daniels"
>> <gram...@verizon.net> scribeva:
>>>Imagine someone raised in Western Civilization who is not familiar
>>>with the Decalogue.
>
>> I know them
>
> "I have known them" or "I've known them", even in the U.S. A very difficult
> point for speakers of many languages.
>
>> since childhood ("De Tien Geboden"), but not this word
>> Dekalog.

It's rarely used in German as well.

>> I recognised the Greek elements, of course, and guessed the
>> meaning.
>> Confirmed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dekalog
>> The Ten Commandments.
>
> This is not /completely/ irrelevant. In Hebrew it's "the ten sayings" (`aseret
> ha-dibrot or `aseret ha-divrey, the former being modern Hebrew as at the
> Hebrew Wikipedia, and the latter being from Exodus 34:28). The Septuagint
> for that verse has τοὺς δέκα λόγους, tous deka logous, and the OED says
> "dekalogos" occurs elsewhere in the Septuagint. As PTD said, the first one
> is "I am Yahweh your God..." which is not a commandment.

Really?

> Wikipedia
> tabulates eight ways in which different religions or traditions break the passage
> up into ten sayings or commandments.

Ah ... as we can see there, every other tradition merges this with "Thou
shalt have no other gods before me" or doesn't count it as part of the
set at all.

Talk in the form of "the 6th commandment" was pretty common when I was
young. I didn't know that this could mean something different to a
different group of people.

--
Some of the most horrific things ever done to humans
were done by the politest, best-dressed, most well-spoken
people from the very best homes and neighborhoods.
-- Jerry Springer

Re: Asshat

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 by: Quinn C - Tue, 17 May 2022 23:04 UTC

* Peter T. Daniels:

> On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 2:04:15 PM UTC-4, Quinn C wrote:
>> * Peter T. Daniels:
>>> On Monday, May 16, 2022 at 10:51:04 PM UTC-4, lar3ryca wrote:
>>>> On 2022-05-16 01:02, occam wrote:
>
>>>>> What about the commandment: "Thou Shalt Not Covet Thy Neighbour's ...
>>>>> Ass". Would your mind go to your neighbour's posterior, or her donkey?
>>>> No idea. Is that a real commandment?
>>> lmgtfy.
>>> No, do it your lazy (not to mention ignorant) self.
>>> Imagine someone raised in Western Civilization who is not familiar
>>> with the Decalogue.
>>
>> Imagine someone not familiar with irony.
>
> You're not really suggesting that lar3 is capable of irony, are you?
>
>> It's clear that it's not a real commandment because the neighbor is a
>> she. For the writers of the Bible, a woman couldn't be a neighbor in her
>> own right, only a neighbor's wife.
>
> KJV. Exod 20:17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not
> covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his
> ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

I see. I considered myself "familiar with the ten commandments", but
couldn't have told you a donkey was in this one, so maybe by your
standards, I fail that test, too. As would 90% of my son's generation, I
expect.

--
If men got pregnant, you could get an abortion at an ATM.
-- Selina Mayer, VEEP

Re: Asshat

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From: pet...@pmoylan.org.invalid (Peter Moylan)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Asshat
Date: Wed, 18 May 2022 11:57:04 +1000
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 by: Peter Moylan - Wed, 18 May 2022 01:57 UTC

On 18/05/22 02:05, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 4:09:38 AM UTC-6, Peter Moylan wrote:

>> A regular in this group - and I'm ashamed to admit I've forgotten who it
>> was - expressed it a little differently:
>>
>> <quote>
>> A burrow is a hole in the ground. A burro is a donkey. As a journalist,
>> you are supposed to know the difference.
>> </quote>
>
> I've quoted or misquoted that here. Evan Kirshenbaum gave an earlier version, from 1975.
>
> https://groups.google.com/g/alt.usage.english/c/vCg6P1wZElA/m/2cTJSSySH84J

Thanks. It's hard to remember all the detail from back then.

I see that Google now requires me to log in to access the archives.
That's getting a little further from the original intent of DejaNews.

Further, Google has just sent me a "security alert" to report a login
from an unknown address. Has it never heard of dynamic IP addresses?

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

Re: Asshat

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Subject: Re: Asshat
Date: Wed, 18 May 2022 08:15:40 +0200
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 by: Ruud Harmsen - Wed, 18 May 2022 06:15 UTC

Tue, 17 May 2022 13:39:08 -0700 (PDT): Jerry Friedman
<jerry_friedman@yahoo.com> scribeva:

>On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 12:12:36 PM UTC-6, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
>> Tue, 17 May 2022 07:35:22 -0700 (PDT): "Peter T. Daniels"
>> <gram...@verizon.net> scribeva:
>> >Imagine someone raised in Western Civilization who is not familiar
>> >with the Decalogue.
>
>> I know them
>
>"I have known them" or "I've known them", even in the U.S. A very difficult
>point for speakers of many languages.
>
>> since childhood ("De Tien Geboden"), but not this word
>> Dekalog. I recognised the Greek elements, of course, and guessed the
>> meaning.
>> Confirmed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dekalog
>> The Ten Commandments.
>
>This is not /completely/ irrelevant. In Hebrew it's "the ten sayings" (`aseret
>ha-dibrot or `aseret ha-divrey, the former being modern Hebrew as at the
>Hebrew Wikipedia, and the latter being from Exodus 34:28). The Septuagint
>for that verse has ???? ???? ??????, tous deka logous, and the OED says
>"dekalogos" occurs elsewhere in the Septuagint. As PTD said, the first one
>is "I am Yahweh your God..." which is not a commandment. Wikipedia
>tabulates eight ways in which different religions or traditions break the passage
>up into ten sayings or commandments.

Bullets weren't invented yet back then. Pity.

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 by: Ruud Harmsen - Wed, 18 May 2022 06:25 UTC

Wed, 18 May 2022 11:57:04 +1000: Peter Moylan
<peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> scribeva:
>I see that Google now requires me to log in to access the archives.
>That's getting a little further from the original intent of DejaNews.
>
>Further, Google has just sent me a "security alert" to report a login
>from an unknown address. Has it never heard of dynamic IP addresses?

It has. But it warns anyway. Just to be on the safe side.

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Subject: Re: Asshat
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 by: Quinn C - Wed, 18 May 2022 12:27 UTC

* Peter Moylan:

> On 18/05/22 02:05, Jerry Friedman wrote:
>> On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 4:09:38 AM UTC-6, Peter Moylan wrote:
>
>>> A regular in this group - and I'm ashamed to admit I've forgotten who it
>>> was - expressed it a little differently:
>>>
>>> <quote>
>>> A burrow is a hole in the ground. A burro is a donkey. As a journalist,
>>> you are supposed to know the difference.
>>> </quote>
>>
>> I've quoted or misquoted that here. Evan Kirshenbaum gave an earlier version, from 1975.
>>
>> https://groups.google.com/g/alt.usage.english/c/vCg6P1wZElA/m/2cTJSSySH84J
>
> Thanks. It's hard to remember all the detail from back then.
>
> I see that Google now requires me to log in to access the archives.

It's confusing - sometimes it does, sometimes not.

> Further, Google has just sent me a "security alert" to report a login
> from an unknown address. Has it never heard of dynamic IP addresses?

I get lots of those from other sites, too. I think in most cases it's
based on them not recognizing your browser (cookies and other hints they
use to personalize their offers.) Similar to when you're asked to prove
you're not a robot - it's a hint that they don't know enough about you
from your browser, which I see as a positive.

--
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that
good men do nothing.
-- Edmund Burke

Re: Asshat

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Subject: Re: Asshat
Date: Wed, 18 May 2022 23:49:58 +0200
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 by: Anders D. Nygaard - Wed, 18 May 2022 21:49 UTC

Den 18-05-2022 kl. 08:15 skrev Ruud Harmsen:
> Tue, 17 May 2022 13:39:08 -0700 (PDT): Jerry Friedman
> <jerry_friedman@yahoo.com> scribeva:
>
>> On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 12:12:36 PM UTC-6, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
>>> Tue, 17 May 2022 07:35:22 -0700 (PDT): "Peter T. Daniels"
>>> <gram...@verizon.net> scribeva:
>>>> Imagine someone raised in Western Civilization who is not familiar
>>>> with the Decalogue.
>>
>>> I know them
>>
>> "I have known them" or "I've known them", even in the U.S. A very difficult
>> point for speakers of many languages.
>>
>>> since childhood ("De Tien Geboden"), but not this word
>>> Dekalog. I recognised the Greek elements, of course, and guessed the
>>> meaning.
>>> Confirmed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dekalog
>>> The Ten Commandments.
>>
>> This is not /completely/ irrelevant. In Hebrew it's "the ten sayings" (`aseret
>> ha-dibrot or `aseret ha-divrey, the former being modern Hebrew as at the
>> Hebrew Wikipedia, and the latter being from Exodus 34:28). The Septuagint
>> for that verse has ???? ???? ??????, tous deka logous, and the OED says
>> "dekalogos" occurs elsewhere in the Septuagint. As PTD said, the first one
>> is "I am Yahweh your God..." which is not a commandment. Wikipedia
>> tabulates eight ways in which different religions or traditions break the passage
>> up into ten sayings or commandments.
>
> Bullets weren't invented yet back then. Pity.

How very American of you. But I believe they had to invent the firearm
first.

/Anders, Denmark

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 by: Peter T. Daniels - Thu, 19 May 2022 18:39 UTC

On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 4:39:10 PM UTC-4, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 12:12:36 PM UTC-6, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
> > Tue, 17 May 2022 07:35:22 -0700 (PDT): "Peter T. Daniels"
> > <gram...@verizon.net> scribeva:

> > >Imagine someone raised in Western Civilization who is not familiar
> > >with the Decalogue.
> > I know them
>
> "I have known them" or "I've known them", even in the U.S. A very difficult
> point for speakers of many languages.
>
> > since childhood ("De Tien Geboden"), but not this word
> > Dekalog. I recognised the Greek elements, of course, and guessed the
> > meaning.
> > Confirmed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dekalog
> > The Ten Commandments.
>
> This is not /completely/ irrelevant. In Hebrew it's "the ten sayings" (`aseret
> ha-dibrot or `aseret ha-divrey, the former being modern Hebrew as at the
> Hebrew Wikipedia, and the latter being from Exodus 34:28). The Septuagint
> for that verse has τοὺς δέκα λόγους, tous deka logous, and the OED says
> "dekalogos" occurs elsewhere in the Septuagint. As PTD said, the first one
> is "I am Yahweh your God..." which is not a commandment. Wikipedia
> tabulates eight ways in which different religions or traditions break the passage
> up into ten sayings or commandments.

The first one is

KJV Exod 20:2 I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the
land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. [3] Thou shalt have no other
gods before me.

That's certainly a commandment!

#2 is graven images, #3 is swearing, #4 is the Sabbath, #5 is father and
mother, and ##6-10 are the earthly sins (murder, adultery, theft, lying,
coveting).

Re: Asshat

<9e4e7941-a67a-4d1e-aeb8-ed4168a99251n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: Asshat
From: jerry_fr...@yahoo.com (Jerry Friedman)
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 by: Jerry Friedman - Thu, 19 May 2022 22:05 UTC

On Thursday, May 19, 2022 at 12:39:24 PM UTC-6, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 4:39:10 PM UTC-4, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> > On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 12:12:36 PM UTC-6, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
> > > Tue, 17 May 2022 07:35:22 -0700 (PDT): "Peter T. Daniels"
> > > <gram...@verizon.net> scribeva:
>
> > > >Imagine someone raised in Western Civilization who is not familiar
> > > >with the Decalogue.
> > > I know them
> >
> > "I have known them" or "I've known them", even in the U.S. A very difficult
> > point for speakers of many languages.
> >
> > > since childhood ("De Tien Geboden"), but not this word
> > > Dekalog. I recognised the Greek elements, of course, and guessed the
> > > meaning.
> > > Confirmed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dekalog
> > > The Ten Commandments.
> >
> > This is not /completely/ irrelevant. In Hebrew it's "the ten sayings" (`aseret
> > ha-dibrot or `aseret ha-divrey, the former being modern Hebrew as at the
> > Hebrew Wikipedia, and the latter being from Exodus 34:28). The Septuagint
> > for that verse has τοὺς δέκα λόγους, tous deka logous, and the OED says
> > "dekalogos" occurs elsewhere in the Septuagint. As PTD said, the first one
> > is "I am Yahweh your God..." which is not a commandment. Wikipedia
> > tabulates eight ways in which different religions or traditions break the passage
> > up into ten sayings or commandments.

> The first one is
>
> KJV Exod 20:2 I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the
> land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. [3] Thou shalt have no other
> gods before me.
>
> That's certainly a commandment!

Well, half of it is.

No doubt you've now seen at Wikipedia or elsewhere how the Jewish
(Talmudic) numbering goes.

> #2 is graven images, #3 is swearing, #4 is the Sabbath, #5 is father and
> mother, and ##6-10 are the earthly sins (murder, adultery, theft, lying,
> coveting).

That's what Wikipedia calls the Reformed Christian numbering, also in the
Anglican prayerbook.

--
Jerry Friedman

Re: Asshat

<mn.9c0e7e657627d19f.127094@snitoo>

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From: snidely....@gmail.com (Snidely)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Asshat
Date: Thu, 19 May 2022 17:18:53 -0700
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 by: Snidely - Fri, 20 May 2022 00:18 UTC

On Wednesday, Anders D. Nygaard exclaimed wildly:
> Den 18-05-2022 kl. 08:15 skrev Ruud Harmsen:
>> Tue, 17 May 2022 13:39:08 -0700 (PDT): Jerry Friedman
>> <jerry_friedman@yahoo.com> scribeva:
>>
>>> On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 12:12:36 PM UTC-6, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
>>>> Tue, 17 May 2022 07:35:22 -0700 (PDT): "Peter T. Daniels"
>>>> <gram...@verizon.net> scribeva:
>>>>> Imagine someone raised in Western Civilization who is not familiar
>>>>> with the Decalogue.
>>>
>>>> I know them
>>>
>>> "I have known them" or "I've known them", even in the U.S. A very
>>> difficult
>>> point for speakers of many languages.
>>>
>>>> since childhood ("De Tien Geboden"), but not this word
>>>> Dekalog. I recognised the Greek elements, of course, and guessed the
>>>> meaning.
>>>> Confirmed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dekalog
>>>> The Ten Commandments.
>>>
>>> This is not /completely/ irrelevant. In Hebrew it's "the ten sayings"
>>> (`aseret
>>> ha-dibrot or `aseret ha-divrey, the former being modern Hebrew as at the
>>> Hebrew Wikipedia, and the latter being from Exodus 34:28). The
>>> Septuagint
>>> for that verse has ???? ???? ??????, tous deka logous, and the OED says
>>> "dekalogos" occurs elsewhere in the Septuagint. As PTD said, the first
>>> one
>>> is "I am Yahweh your God..." which is not a commandment. Wikipedia
>>> tabulates eight ways in which different religions or traditions break the
>>> passage
>>> up into ten sayings or commandments.
>>
>> Bullets weren't invented yet back then. Pity.
>
> How very American of you. But I believe they had to invent the firearm first.

But they knew about little circles and stars, so changing the CSS
shouldn't be too difficult.

/dps

--
Yes, I have had a cucumber soda. Why do you ask?

Re: Asshat

<mjBhK.798602$Lc1.452565@fx12.ams1>

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 by: Sam Plusnet - Fri, 20 May 2022 00:31 UTC

On 19-May-22 23:05, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> On Thursday, May 19, 2022 at 12:39:24 PM UTC-6, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>> On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 4:39:10 PM UTC-4, Jerry Friedman wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 12:12:36 PM UTC-6, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
>>>> Tue, 17 May 2022 07:35:22 -0700 (PDT): "Peter T. Daniels"
>>>> <gram...@verizon.net> scribeva:
>>
>>>>> Imagine someone raised in Western Civilization who is not familiar
>>>>> with the Decalogue.
>>>> I know them
>>>
>>> "I have known them" or "I've known them", even in the U.S. A very difficult
>>> point for speakers of many languages.
>>>
>>>> since childhood ("De Tien Geboden"), but not this word
>>>> Dekalog. I recognised the Greek elements, of course, and guessed the
>>>> meaning.
>>>> Confirmed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dekalog
>>>> The Ten Commandments.
>>>
>>> This is not /completely/ irrelevant. In Hebrew it's "the ten sayings" (`aseret
>>> ha-dibrot or `aseret ha-divrey, the former being modern Hebrew as at the
>>> Hebrew Wikipedia, and the latter being from Exodus 34:28). The Septuagint
>>> for that verse has τοὺς δέκα λόγους, tous deka logous, and the OED says
>>> "dekalogos" occurs elsewhere in the Septuagint. As PTD said, the first one
>>> is "I am Yahweh your God..." which is not a commandment. Wikipedia
>>> tabulates eight ways in which different religions or traditions break the passage
>>> up into ten sayings or commandments.
>
>> The first one is
>>
>> KJV Exod 20:2 I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the
>> land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. [3] Thou shalt have no other
>> gods before me.
>>
>> That's certainly a commandment!
>
> Well, half of it is.
>

A respectable wandering tribe would have had no business being in a
house of bondage in the first place!

That book should have been banned long ago.

--
Sam Plusnet

Re: Asshat

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From: adm...@127.0.0.1 (Kerr-Mudd, John)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Asshat
Date: Fri, 20 May 2022 08:58:50 +0100
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 by: Kerr-Mudd, John - Fri, 20 May 2022 07:58 UTC

On Fri, 20 May 2022 01:31:14 +0100
Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:

> On 19-May-22 23:05, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> > On Thursday, May 19, 2022 at 12:39:24 PM UTC-6, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> >> On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 4:39:10 PM UTC-4, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> >>> On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 12:12:36 PM UTC-6, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
> >>>> Tue, 17 May 2022 07:35:22 -0700 (PDT): "Peter T. Daniels"
> >>>> <gram...@verizon.net> scribeva:
> >>
> >>>>> Imagine someone raised in Western Civilization who is not familiar
> >>>>> with the Decalogue.
> >>>> I know them
> >>>
> >>> "I have known them" or "I've known them", even in the U.S. A very difficult
> >>> point for speakers of many languages.
> >>>
> >>>> since childhood ("De Tien Geboden"), but not this word
> >>>> Dekalog. I recognised the Greek elements, of course, and guessed the
> >>>> meaning.
> >>>> Confirmed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dekalog
> >>>> The Ten Commandments.
> >>>
> >>> This is not /completely/ irrelevant. In Hebrew it's "the ten sayings" (`aseret
> >>> ha-dibrot or `aseret ha-divrey, the former being modern Hebrew as at the
> >>> Hebrew Wikipedia, and the latter being from Exodus 34:28). The Septuagint
> >>> for that verse has τοὺς δέκα λόγους, tous deka logous, and the OED says
> >>> "dekalogos" occurs elsewhere in the Septuagint. As PTD said, the first one
> >>> is "I am Yahweh your God..." which is not a commandment. Wikipedia
> >>> tabulates eight ways in which different religions or traditions break the passage
> >>> up into ten sayings or commandments.
> >
> >> The first one is
> >>
> >> KJV Exod 20:2 I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the
> >> land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. [3] Thou shalt have no other
> >> gods before me.
> >>
> >> That's certainly a commandment!
> >
> > Well, half of it is.
> >
>
> A respectable wandering tribe would have had no business being in a
> house of bondage in the first place!
>
> That book should have been banned long ago.
>

That ark wasn't very portable; yu'd think Yahweh might come up with a personal one, pshurely the tech must've moved on by now.

(PS we all would like one of those staffs that can make water spring forth. No? I'm going back to graven images then).

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

Re: Asshat

<t67qbu$c57$1@dont-email.me>

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From: pet...@pmoylan.org.invalid (Peter Moylan)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Asshat
Date: Fri, 20 May 2022 20:26:04 +1000
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Peter Moylan - Fri, 20 May 2022 10:26 UTC

On 20/05/22 17:58, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
> On Fri, 20 May 2022 01:31:14 +0100 Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
>
>> On 19-May-22 23:05, Jerry Friedman wrote:
>>> On Thursday, May 19, 2022 at 12:39:24 PM UTC-6, Peter T. Daniels
>>> wrote:

>>>> KJV Exod 20:2 I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee
>>>> out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. [3] Thou
>>>> shalt have no other gods before me.
>>>>
>>>> That's certainly a commandment!
>>>
>>> Well, half of it is.
>>
>> A respectable wandering tribe would have had no business being in
>> a house of bondage in the first place!
>>
>> That book should have been banned long ago.
>
> That ark wasn't very portable; yu'd think Yahweh might come up with a
> personal one, pshurely the tech must've moved on by now.

He did. It was eventually copied onto scrolls. A much better solution
than carrying around two heavy stones.

> (PS we all would like one of those staffs that can make water spring
> forth. No? I'm going back to graven images then).

Water diviners still exist, but I have no idea how good their success
rate is.

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

Re: Asshat

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From: adm...@127.0.0.1 (Kerr-Mudd, John)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Asshat
Date: Fri, 20 May 2022 12:30:58 +0100
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 by: Kerr-Mudd, John - Fri, 20 May 2022 11:30 UTC

On Fri, 20 May 2022 20:26:04 +1000
Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:

> On 20/05/22 17:58, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
[Hebrews 1 Canaanites 0]
> >
> > That ark wasn't very portable; yu'd think Yahweh might come up with a
> > personal one, pshurely the tech must've moved on by now.
>
> He did. It was eventually copied onto scrolls. A much better solution
> than carrying around two heavy stones.
>
> > (PS we all would like one of those staffs that can make water spring
> > forth. No? I'm going back to graven images then).
>
> Water diviners still exist, but I have no idea how good their success
> rate is.

I dunno, but I've made it work using
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dowsing#Pair_of_rods
(plus a pair of biro outers)

It could be I'm fooling myself.
--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

Re: Asshat

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Subject: Re: Asshat
From: gramma...@verizon.net (Peter T. Daniels)
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 by: Peter T. Daniels - Fri, 20 May 2022 13:39 UTC

On Friday, May 20, 2022 at 6:26:11 AM UTC-4, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 20/05/22 17:58, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
> > On Fri, 20 May 2022 01:31:14 +0100 Sam Plusnet <n...@home.com> wrote:
> >> On 19-May-22 23:05, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> >>> On Thursday, May 19, 2022 at 12:39:24 PM UTC-6, Peter T. Daniels
> >>> wrote:
> >>>> KJV Exod 20:2 I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee
> >>>> out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. [3] Thou
> >>>> shalt have no other gods before me.
> >>>> That's certainly a commandment!
> >>> Well, half of it is.

Several of the others take up several verses, too.

> >> A respectable wandering tribe would have had no business being in
> >> a house of bondage in the first place!
> >> That book should have been banned long ago.
> > That ark wasn't very portable; yu'd think Yahweh might come up with a
> > personal one, pshurely the tech must've moved on by now.
>
> He did. It was eventually copied onto scrolls. A much better solution
> than carrying around two heavy stones.

You needn't believe Gustave Doré or Cecil B. DeMille. The whole Decalogue
-- and the whole Holiness Code, for that matter -- could have been inscribed
on a couple of pocket-size cuneiform tablets.

I once did a popular talk (for an "archeology club" of senior citizens, in
a dining room over a Chinese restaurant on the Upper West Side) on
what the Ten Commandments might have actually looked like. It was
before PowerPoint, so I did a paper handout with a variety of images,
starting with a temple in Yonkers whose facade is in the traditional
"two stone tablets with arched top" shape, with ten Hebrew letters
in two columns.

> > (PS we all would like one of those staffs that can make water spring
> > forth. No? I'm going back to graven images then).
>
> Water diviners still exist, but I have no idea how good their success
> rate is.

Re: Asshat

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From: bellemar...@gmail.com (CDB)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Asshat
Date: Fri, 20 May 2022 09:40:58 -0400
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 by: CDB - Fri, 20 May 2022 13:40 UTC

On 5/20/2022 3:58 AM, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
> Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
>> Jerry Friedman wrote:
>>> Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>>>> Jerry Friedman wrote:
>>>>> Ruud Harmsen wrote:
>>>>>> "Peter T. Daniels" <gram...@verizon.net> scribeva:

>>>>>>> Imagine someone raised in Western Civilization who is not
>>>>>>> familiar with the Decalogue.
>>>>>> I know them

>>>>> "I have known them" or "I've known them", even in the U.S. A
>>>>> very difficult point for speakers of many languages.

>>>>>> since childhood ("De Tien Geboden"), but not this word
>>>>>> Dekalog. I recognised the Greek elements, of course, and
>>>>>> guessed the meaning. Confirmed:
>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dekalog The Ten
>>>>>> Commandments.

>>>>> This is not /completely/ irrelevant. In Hebrew it's "the ten
>>>>> sayings" (`aseret ha-dibrot or `aseret ha-divrey, the former
>>>>> being modern Hebrew as at the Hebrew Wikipedia, and the
>>>>> latter being from Exodus 34:28). The Septuagint for that
>>>>> verse has τοὺς δέκα λόγους, tous deka logous, and the OED
>>>>> says "dekalogos" occurs elsewhere in the Septuagint. As PTD
>>>>> said, the first one is "I am Yahweh your God..." which is not
>>>>> a commandment. Wikipedia tabulates eight ways in which
>>>>> different religions or traditions break the passage up into
>>>>> ten sayings or commandments.

>>>> The first one is

>>>> KJV Exod 20:2 I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee
>>>> out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. [3] Thou
>>>> shalt have no other gods before me.

>>>> That's certainly a commandment!

>>> Well, half of it is.

>> A respectable wandering tribe would have had no business being in
>> a house of bondage in the first place!

>> That book should have been banned long ago.

> That ark wasn't very portable; yu'd think Yahweh might come up with a
> personal one, pshurely the tech must've moved on by now.

> (PS we all would like one of those staffs that can make water spring
> forth. No? I'm going back to graven images then).

A cat's staff can do that, AFAIK.

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