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interests / alt.usage.english / Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

SubjectAuthor
* An interlingual phonetic coincidenceBebercito
+- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceStefan Ram
+* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter T. Daniels
|`* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceBebercito
| +- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencespains...@gmail.com
| `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter T. Daniels
|  +- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceQuinn C
|  `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceBebercito
|   +- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceCDB
|   `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceRoss Clark
|    +* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceBebercito
|    |`* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter T. Daniels
|    | `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceBebercito
|    |  +- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter T. Daniels
|    |  `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceRoss Clark
|    |   +* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceStefan Ram
|    |   |`- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceRoss Clark
|    |   `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceBebercito
|    |    +- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceBebercito
|    |    `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceRoss Clark
|    |     `- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceBebercito
|    `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceSnidely
|     `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceAthel Cornish-Bowden
|      +* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceKen Blake
|      |`* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceSnidely
|      | +- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceSnidely
|      | +- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceCDB
|      | +* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter T. Daniels
|      | |`* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceAdam Funk
|      | | `- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter T. Daniels
|      | `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceQuinn C
|      |  +* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencelar3ryca
|      |  |`- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceStefan Ram
|      |  `- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencelar3ryca
|      `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceHibou
|       +* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter Moylan
|       |`* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceHibou
|       | +* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter Moylan
|       | |+* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceHibou
|       | ||+* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter Moylan
|       | |||`- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceDingbat
|       | ||`- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceKerr-Mudd, John
|       | |`* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceKen Blake
|       | | +* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencecharles
|       | | |+* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceKen Blake
|       | | ||+- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencecharles
|       | | ||`* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter Moylan
|       | | || `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceKen Blake
|       | | ||  +* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceLewis
|       | | ||  |`- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter Moylan
|       | | ||  `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceQuinn C
|       | | ||   `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceKen Blake
|       | | ||    +- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter T. Daniels
|       | | ||    `- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceKerr-Mudd, John
|       | | |+* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencelar3ryca
|       | | ||+* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceTony Cooper
|       | | |||+- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceGordonD
|       | | |||`- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter T. Daniels
|       | | ||+* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceSam Plusnet
|       | | |||`* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencelar3ryca
|       | | ||| `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceSam Plusnet
|       | | |||  `- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencelar3ryca
|       | | ||`* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePaul Wolff
|       | | || `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceJoy Beeson
|       | | ||  `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceSam Plusnet
|       | | ||   +* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceStefan Ram
|       | | ||   |`* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceRichard Heathfield
|       | | ||   | `- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceSam Plusnet
|       | | ||   `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceJanet
|       | | ||    `- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceMack A. Damia
|       | | |`- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter T. Daniels
|       | | `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePaul Wolff
|       | |  +- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceTony Cooper
|       | |  `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter Moylan
|       | |   +- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencelar3ryca
|       | |   +* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencelar3ryca
|       | |   |+* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter T. Daniels
|       | |   ||`- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter Moylan
|       | |   |`* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceSnidely
|       | |   | `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencelar3ryca
|       | |   |  +* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter Moylan
|       | |   |  |`* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceAnders D. Nygaard
|       | |   |  | `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceMark Brader
|       | |   |  |  `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceQuinn C
|       | |   |  |   `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceBebercito
|       | |   |  |    `- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceQuinn C
|       | |   |  `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceMark Brader
|       | |   |   `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceTony Cooper
|       | |   |    +* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencebil...@shaw.ca
|       | |   |    |+* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter T. Daniels
|       | |   |    ||`* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceJerry Friedman
|       | |   |    || +- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter Moylan
|       | |   |    || `- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceMadhu
|       | |   |    |`- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceKen Blake
|       | |   |    `- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceAthel Cornish-Bowden
|       | |   `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencebil...@shaw.ca
|       | |    +* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceKerr-Mudd, John
|       | |    |+* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter Moylan
|       | |    ||+* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceKen Blake
|       | |    |||`* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter Moylan
|       | |    ||| `- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceSilvano
|       | |    ||`- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceStoat
|       | |    |+- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceQuinn C
|       | |    |+- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceSam Plusnet
|       | |    |`* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencecharles
|       | |    `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceJerry Friedman
|       | `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceTony Cooper
|       +* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter T. Daniels
|       `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceSnidely
`* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceDingbat

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Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

<jei99rFg0njU1@mid.individual.net>

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From: acorn...@imm.cnrs.fr (Athel Cornish-Bowden)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
Date: Tue, 17 May 2022 20:53:47 +0200
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 by: Athel Cornish-Bowden - Tue, 17 May 2022 18:53 UTC

On 2022-05-17 17:38:14 +0000, Ruud Harmsen said:

> Tue, 17 May 2022 08:23:22 +0200: Athel Cornish-Bowden
> <acornish@imm.cnrs.fr> scribeva:
>
>> On 2022-05-17 05:32:40 +0000, Ruud Harmsen said:
>>
>>> Tue, 17 May 2022 10:57:09 +1000: Peter Moylan
>>> <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> scribeva:
>>>>
>>>> [ … ]
>>>>
>>>> I missed an opportunity ten years ago. I wanted to get a photo of my
>>>> friends Vera, Chook,
>>>
>>> It's Chuck.
>>
>> You think you know better than Peter how his friend's name was written?
>
> I'm talking about the song, and accents of British English.

Peter was talking about his friends. If you were talking about
something else, why not say so?
>
>>> That it may seem to sound like Chook is due to the
>>> Liverpool accent, or Northern English accent in general. By the way, I
>>> noticed yesterday, for the first time, that he (Paul McCartney)
>>> employs a strange different accent (attempted Scottish, maybe?) just
>>> before that.
>>>
>>>> and Dave, to be displayed at my 64th birthday
>>>> party. Unfortunately I didn't have a camera, and the next time I saw
>>>> them together it was too late.
>>>>
>>>> Now it's much too late. Vera died last year, and I rarely see Chook.
>>>> Dave is still around.

--
Athel -- French and British, living mainly in England until 1987.

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

<hnr78h1kkkego7m5uclr6g2lq79srfrfaf@4ax.com>

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From: rh...@rudhar.com (Ruud Harmsen)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
Date: Tue, 17 May 2022 20:58:24 +0200
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 by: Ruud Harmsen - Tue, 17 May 2022 18:58 UTC

Tue, 17 May 2022 11:38:14 -0700 (PDT): "Peter T. Daniels"
<grammatim@verizon.net> scribeva:

>Or even, he might _not_ be named Chuck/Charles and

https://people.howstuffworks.com/why-is-chuck-short-for-charles-and-dick-short-for-richard.htm

Didn't know that, about Chuck, I mean. Bob/Robert, Dick/Richard I did
know about.

The answer of course: siblings struggling with difficult
pronunciations.

Cf. Russian Zhenya for Evgenia and a similar male name too.

==
Sarah to Sally

A few nicknames are attributed to baby talk.
==

A few? I'd say all.

==
Little children have a notoriously hard time pronouncing the letter
"R" which often comes out sounding like an "L."
==

True, but that isn't the only difficulty they are facing. So initially
they simplify things. Words and names. Later they manage the real
thing. Meanwhile they just keep talking. Way to go.

==
Evans thinks that's the best explanation for the conversion of Sarah
to Sally and Mary to Molly. (The rhyming phenomenon also takes Mary
from Molly to Polly.)
==

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

<mn.8ad67e65cb0d8c25.127094@snitoo>

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From: snidely....@gmail.com (Snidely)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
Date: Tue, 17 May 2022 12:06:35 -0700
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 by: Snidely - Tue, 17 May 2022 19:06 UTC

Ken Blake asserted that:
> On Sun, 15 May 2022 09:58:54 +1000, Peter Moylan
> <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 15/05/22 03:53, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>> Peter T. Daniels <grammatim@verizon.net> wrote:
>>>> On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 5:43:06 PM UTC-4, benl...@ihug.co.nz wrote:
>>>>> On 14/05/2022 2:36 a.m., Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>>>>>> On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 1:08:22 AM UTC-4, Dingbat wrote:
>>>>>>> English DEAR and Russian DOROGOY have the same two meanings:
>>>>>>> 1) Beloved
>>>>>>> 2) Expensive
>>>>>> French CHER as well. It's beginning to look non-coincidental, no?
>>>>>
>>>>> Indeed. The English seems to be two directions of development from an
>>>>> original meaning something like "precious, valuable, worthy". I feel
>>>>> them as quite separate now; I knew the "beloved" one from childhood, but
>>>>> only encountered the "expensive" one in adolescence from British sources
>>>>> (spoken and written), and found it surprising.
>>>>
>>>> Interesting. It was my grandmother's (b. 1891, Brooklyn) regular
>>>> word for 'expensive'.
>>>
>>> If Brooklyn from Dutch 'duur', perhaps,
>>
>> Unlikely, because dear=expensive can be found all over the
>> English-speaking world, and most of us have never been to Brooklyn.
>
> I have. I lived in NYC for about 14 years of my life. I was born in
> Brooklyn, and lived there until I was three. Since then, I've been in
> Brooklyn about seven times (three marathons that went through
> Brooklyn, the wedding of my sister-in-law, two parties of friends who
> lived there, and one visit with my in-laws to their friends who lived
> there.
>
> Despite the above, I remember nothing about Brooklyn.

From when I was 7, visiting relatives, I remember that tall apartment
buildings might have a parking lot, such as where I tried out my toy
Isetta.

/dps

--
There's nothing inherently wrong with Big Data. What matters, as it
does for Arnold Lund in California or Richard Rothman in Baltimore, are
the questions -- old and new, good and bad -- this newest tool lets us
ask. (R. Lerhman, CSMonitor.com)

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

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Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
From: gramma...@verizon.net (Peter T. Daniels)
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 by: Peter T. Daniels - Tue, 17 May 2022 19:14 UTC

On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 2:50:31 PM UTC-4, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
> Tue, 17 May 2022 11:38:14 -0700 (PDT): "Peter T. Daniels"
> <gram...@verizon.net> scribeva:
> >On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 2:04:15 PM UTC-4, Quinn C wrote:
> >> * Peter T. Daniels:
> >> > On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 2:23:28 AM UTC-4, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> >> >> On 2022-05-17 05:32:40 +0000, Ruud Harmsen said:
> >> >>> Tue, 17 May 2022 10:57:09 +1000: Peter Moylan
> >> >>> <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> scribeva:

> >> >>>> I missed an opportunity ten years ago. I wanted to get a photo of my
> >> >>>> friends Vera, Chook,
> >> >>> It's Chuck.
> >> >> You think you know better than Peter how his friend's name was written?
> >> > You couldn't figure out that he was referring to the original that PM
> >> > was comparing his list of friend's names to?
> >> Since that "original" wasn't quoted, it was easy to get confused what PM
> >> was talking about. I've heard the song long ago (although not quite 64
> >> years), but didn't remember such details.
> >I had no idea what he was referencing, but I had no trouble understanding
> >that Ruud did know what he was referencing and gave the form found in
> >that source. That seems to have been too difficult for AC-B.
> >> Looking at the lyrics now, I'm actually confused as to what those names
> >> represent. The grandchildren? It's unclear, and apparently, it wasn't
> >> clear to the writers.
> >> My 64th isn't so far away, so I could start planning, but I've known
> >> only one Vera in my life, back in high school, no Chuck and can't come
> >> up with a memory of a Dave or David on the spot, although it feels there
> >> should've been at least one.
> >Ah. There are enough hints there for me to guess that it's the Beatles'
> >"When I'm 64."
>
> It was mentioned just a few posts earlier, with links to Youtube and
> to the lyrics. You people don't read the threads in thread order?
>
> >That knowledge would have been of no use in interpreting the "inside
> >joke" that Chook's last name was Fowler, hence "Chook" is an appropriate
> >variety of "Chuck" for his name.
>
> I haven't seen the word or name Fowler mentioned in this thread. And
> I'm not even sure what it means.

"> It was mentioned just a few posts earlier .... You [person] don't read
"> the threads in thread order?"

> https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/fowler
> [bef. 900; ME foweler, OE fughelere. See fowl, -er1]
>
> I see, een vogelaar. Now more usually meaning bird spotter, in Dutch.
>
> >Or even, he might _not_ be named Chuck/
> >Charles and simply have acquired the nickname by association.
> >I've known one Vera (co-worker of my mother's), a person one of whose
> >email accounts is in the name "Chuck" (he's usually called Charles but
> >apparently also answers to Charlie when pressed), and lots of Dave/
> >Davids.

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

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 by: Sam Plusnet - Tue, 17 May 2022 19:30 UTC

On 17-May-22 11:42, Adam Funk wrote:
> "Oxter" is used in Yorkshire & Derbyshire (at least) as well.

I lived in Derbyshire (near the border with Yorkshire) for my first
couple of decades, and never came across it.

--
Sam Plusnet

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

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Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
Date: Tue, 17 May 2022 15:31:00 -0400
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 by: Tony Cooper - Tue, 17 May 2022 19:31 UTC

On Tue, 17 May 2022 19:33:42 +0100, charles <charles@candehope.me.uk>
wrote:

>In article <stkok8ncvo9y.dlg@mid.crommatograph.info>,
> Quinn C <lispamateur@crommatograph.info> wrote:
>> * Peter T. Daniels:
>
>> > On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 2:23:28 AM UTC-4, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>> >> On 2022-05-17 05:32:40 +0000, Ruud Harmsen said:
>> >>> Tue, 17 May 2022 10:57:09 +1000: Peter Moylan
>> >>> <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> scribeva:
>> >
>> >>>> I missed an opportunity ten years ago. I wanted to get a photo of my
>> >>>> friends Vera, Chook,
>> >>> It's Chuck.
>> >>
>> >> You think you know better than Peter how his friend's name was written?
>> >
>> > You couldn't figure out that he was referring to the original that PM
>> > was comparing his list of friend's names to?
>
>> Since that "original" wasn't quoted, it was easy to get confused what PM
>> was talking about. I've heard the song long ago (although not quite 64
>> years), but didn't remember such details.
>
>> Looking at the lyrics now, I'm actually confused as to what those names
>> represent. The grandchildren? It's unclear, and apparently, it wasn't
>> clear to the writers.
>
>> My 64th isn't so far away, so I could start planning, but I've known
>> only one Vera in my life, back in high school, no Chuck and can't come
>> up with a memory of a Dave or David on the spot, although it feels there
>> should've been at least one.
>
>I've only knwn one Vera, but it ws probably a common watime name after Vera
>Lyn - the singer. I have a cousin David and kow at leat 3 others.

Is the television show "Vera" still being aired in the UK? "Vera
Stanhope" is a Detective Chief Inspector in the Northumberland & City
Police and is played by Brenda Blethyn.

We've watched several episodes and found it a good watch.
--

Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida

I read and post to this group as a form of entertainment.

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

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Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
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 by: lar3ryca - Tue, 17 May 2022 19:34 UTC

On 2022-05-16 23:32, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
> Tue, 17 May 2022 10:57:09 +1000: Peter Moylan
> <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> scribeva:
>
>> On 17/05/22 01:33, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
>>>>> Sat, 14 May 2022 13:52:31 -0600: lar3ryca <larry@invalid.ca>
>>>>> scribeva:
>>>>>> Hmmm... since 'dear' (in English), is a synonym of 'costly'
>>>>>> and 'expensive',
>>>
>>>> In article <amf28hlb5kti5m62uobvdr6f3sk21efqmf@4ax.com>,
>>>> rh@rudhar.com says...
>>>>> But an unusual one, then.
>>>
>>> Mon, 16 May 2022 11:42:05 +0100: Janet <nobody@home.com> scribeva:
>>>> Not at all; it's in common everyday Br E usage.
>>>
>>> I now suddenly remember "if it's not too dear". The Beatles.
>>> Maxwell's Silver Hammer? No. When I'm sixty-four? Yes:
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCTunqv1Xt4&t=1m33s
>>
>> I missed an opportunity ten years ago. I wanted to get a photo of my
>> friends Vera, Chook,
>
> It's Chuck. That it may seem to sound like Chook is due to the
> Liverpool accent, or Northern English accent in general. By the way, I
> noticed yesterday, for the first time, that he (Paul McCartney)
> employs a strange different accent (attempted Scottish, maybe?) just
> before that.

Where, precisely, do you hear that? I Listened to the version at
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTgbWmaxu5s
but could not detect anything like that all the way from
"Every summer we can rent..."

I imagine it's because I am not familiar enough with the various UK accents.

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

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Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
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 by: Kerr-Mudd, John - Tue, 17 May 2022 19:57 UTC

On Tue, 17 May 2022 09:00:16 -0700
Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:

> On Mon, 16 May 2022 18:07:24 -0400, Quinn C
> <lispamateur@crommatograph.info> wrote:
>
> >* Ken Blake:
> >
> >> On Mon, 16 May 2022 11:45:17 +1000, Peter Moylan
> >> <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
> >>
> >>>On 16/05/22 02:53, Ken Blake wrote:
> >>>> On Sun, 15 May 2022 17:28:34 +0100, charles
> >>>> <charles@candehope.me.uk> wrote:
> >>>>> In article <of828h99kbr4tejqbopn56t8ebs8qkjtbg@4ax.com>,
> >>>
> >>>>>> You are correct. In AmE a "subway" is what BrE calls "tube" or
> >>>>>> "underground."
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Unless the "subway" is a sort of sandwich
> >>>>
> >>>> "Subway" is the name of a chain of sandwich shops, but I wouldn't
> >>>> call what they sell subways. Calling what Subways sells "subways" is
> >>>> like calling what McDonalds sells "McDonalds."
> >>>>
> >>>> Are you hungry? Would you rather have a McDonald or a Subway?
> >>>
> >>>I would phrase that last question as "Would you rather have a McDonald's
> >>>or a Subway".
> >>>
> >>>My youngest granddaughter calls the hamburger place "Old McDonald".
> >>
> >> When she goes to one, does she have a hamburger or a farm?
> >
> >Why choose? In Germany, we had a (short-lived) fast food chain called
> >"Hamburger Farm".
>
> In Germany they planted hamburgers and trees bearing lots of
> hamburgers grew? I hope they were rare. I don't like well-done
> hamburgers.
>
> Old McDonald had a hamburger farm?

You don't really want to know what one of them looks like; it's some bare lot with cattle stocked, fed & watered at a "best yield" optimum. Battery farming. Ranch sounds much nicer, doesn't it?

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

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 by: Kerr-Mudd, John - Tue, 17 May 2022 20:17 UTC

On Tue, 17 May 2022 08:47:42 -0700 (PDT)
"Peter T. Daniels" <grammatim@verizon.net> wrote:

[]
> > are willing to laugh at themselves, and, having read Shute's works,
> > perhaps some of his fondness for the place has rubbed off.
>
> Of course. Australia has never felt an urge to throw off the yoke of
> British imperialism.
>
At least they haven't (so far) started out on their own imperialism.
[]

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

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Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
From: gramma...@verizon.net (Peter T. Daniels)
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 by: Peter T. Daniels - Tue, 17 May 2022 21:05 UTC

On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 4:17:18 PM UTC-4, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
> On Tue, 17 May 2022 08:47:42 -0700 (PDT)
> "Peter T. Daniels" <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:

> > > are willing to laugh at themselves, and, having read Shute's works,
> > > perhaps some of his fondness for the place has rubbed off.
> > Of course. Australia has never felt an urge to throw off the yoke of
> > British imperialism.
>
> At least they haven't (so far) started out on their own imperialism.

Someone seems not to have kept up with South Pacific current events.
> --
> Bah, and indeed Humbug.

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

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 by: Paul Wolff - Tue, 17 May 2022 22:27 UTC

On Tue, 17 May 2022, at 14:25:52, Silvano posted:
>Peter Moylan hat am 17.05.2022 um 13:07 geschrieben:
>> One factor that has made this noticeable to me is that the exact
>> opposite is happening in French, where the simple past has been almost
>> completely replaced by the "passé composé", a tense that is
>> syntactically identical to the present perfect.
>
>_Is_ happening? When I had my first contact with French, well over 50
>years ago, this process had already been completed. AFAIK, you'll find
>the simple past in French only in history books, but never in the spoken
>language.
>
>Also, well over ten years ago, a French channel was available on Berlin
>cable TV and in one of their games the contestants were asked to say in
>10 seconds e.g. the 2° person plural form of the simple past of "boire"
>or another irregular verb. There were some correct answers. :-)

That "simple past" - would that be what I was taught, in the 1950s, as
the passé historique? We were certainly warned against using it too
freely, but I'm not sure now what the rule of thumb was said to be.
--
Paul

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

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 by: Sam Plusnet - Wed, 18 May 2022 00:33 UTC

On 17-May-22 20:34, lar3ryca wrote:
> On 2022-05-16 23:32, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
>> Tue, 17 May 2022 10:57:09 +1000: Peter Moylan
>> <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> scribeva:
>>
>>> On 17/05/22 01:33, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
>>>>>> Sat, 14 May 2022 13:52:31 -0600: lar3ryca <larry@invalid.ca>
>>>>>> scribeva:
>>>>>>> Hmmm... since 'dear' (in English), is a synonym of 'costly'
>>>>>>> and 'expensive',
>>>>
>>>>> In article <amf28hlb5kti5m62uobvdr6f3sk21efqmf@4ax.com>,
>>>>> rh@rudhar.com says...
>>>>>> But an unusual one, then.
>>>>
>>>> Mon, 16 May 2022 11:42:05 +0100: Janet <nobody@home.com> scribeva:
>>>>> Not at all; it's in common everyday Br E usage.
>>>>
>>>> I now suddenly remember "if it's not too dear". The Beatles.
>>>> Maxwell's Silver Hammer? No. When I'm sixty-four? Yes:
>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCTunqv1Xt4&t=1m33s
>>>
>>> I missed an opportunity ten years ago. I wanted to get a photo of my
>>> friends Vera, Chook,
>>
>> It's Chuck. That it may seem to sound like Chook is due to the
>> Liverpool accent, or Northern English accent in general. By the way, I
>> noticed yesterday, for the first time, that he (Paul McCartney)
>> employs a strange different accent (attempted Scottish, maybe?) just
>> before that.
>
> Where, precisely, do you hear that? I Listened to the version at
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTgbWmaxu5s
> but could not detect anything like that all the way from
> "Every summer we can rent..."
>
> I imagine it's because I am not familiar enough with the various UK
> accents.
>
There is a hint of it in the line:

"grandchildren on y're knee"

That "y're" sounds like an imitation of a Scots accent.

I don't know where "Chuck" came from. It isn't a diminutive form of
Charles that I've ever heard in BrE.

--
Sam Plusnet

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

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Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
Date: Tue, 17 May 2022 20:59:15 -0400
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 by: Tony Cooper - Wed, 18 May 2022 00:59 UTC

On Wed, 18 May 2022 01:33:33 +0100, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:

>On 17-May-22 20:34, lar3ryca wrote:
>> On 2022-05-16 23:32, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
>>> Tue, 17 May 2022 10:57:09 +1000: Peter Moylan
>>> <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> scribeva:
>>>
>>>> On 17/05/22 01:33, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
>>>>>>> Sat, 14 May 2022 13:52:31 -0600: lar3ryca <larry@invalid.ca>
>>>>>>> scribeva:
>>>>>>>> Hmmm... since 'dear' (in English), is a synonym of 'costly'
>>>>>>>> and 'expensive',
>>>>>
>>>>>> In article <amf28hlb5kti5m62uobvdr6f3sk21efqmf@4ax.com>,
>>>>>> rh@rudhar.com says...
>>>>>>> But an unusual one, then.
>>>>>
>>>>> Mon, 16 May 2022 11:42:05 +0100: Janet <nobody@home.com> scribeva:
>>>>>> Not at all; it's in common everyday Br E usage.
>>>>>
>>>>> I now suddenly remember "if it's not too dear". The Beatles.
>>>>> Maxwell's Silver Hammer? No. When I'm sixty-four? Yes:
>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCTunqv1Xt4&t=1m33s
>>>>
>>>> I missed an opportunity ten years ago. I wanted to get a photo of my
>>>> friends Vera, Chook,
>>>
>>> It's Chuck. That it may seem to sound like Chook is due to the
>>> Liverpool accent, or Northern English accent in general. By the way, I
>>> noticed yesterday, for the first time, that he (Paul McCartney)
>>> employs a strange different accent (attempted Scottish, maybe?) just
>>> before that.
>>
>> Where, precisely, do you hear that? I Listened to the version at
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTgbWmaxu5s
>> but could not detect anything like that all the way from
>> "Every summer we can rent..."
>>
>> I imagine it's because I am not familiar enough with the various UK
>> accents.
>>
>There is a hint of it in the line:
>
>"grandchildren on y're knee"
>
>That "y're" sounds like an imitation of a Scots accent.
>
>I don't know where "Chuck" came from. It isn't a diminutive form of
>Charles that I've ever heard in BrE.

Some here will remember Charles Riggs. While he lived in Ireland, he
was an American. He had been living in Ireland when I first
encountered him here in a.u.e.

He posted as "Chuck Riggs" and at other times as "Charles Riggs".

https://www.mail-archive.com/alt.usage.english@googlegroups.com/msg00070.html

In this thread, he posts as "Chuck", but discusses "chuckless
Ireland".

https://alt.usage.english.narkive.com/r9E9jpWv/literary-bulletin#post2
--

Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida

I read and post to this group as a form of entertainment.

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

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 by: lar3ryca - Wed, 18 May 2022 01:06 UTC

On 2022-05-17 18:33, Sam Plusnet wrote:
> On 17-May-22 20:34, lar3ryca wrote:
>> On 2022-05-16 23:32, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
>>> Tue, 17 May 2022 10:57:09 +1000: Peter Moylan
>>> <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> scribeva:
>>>
>>>> On 17/05/22 01:33, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
>>>>>>> Sat, 14 May 2022 13:52:31 -0600: lar3ryca <larry@invalid.ca>
>>>>>>> scribeva:
>>>>>>>> Hmmm... since 'dear' (in English), is a synonym of 'costly'
>>>>>>>> and 'expensive',
>>>>>
>>>>>> In article <amf28hlb5kti5m62uobvdr6f3sk21efqmf@4ax.com>,
>>>>>> rh@rudhar.com says...
>>>>>>> But an unusual one, then.
>>>>>
>>>>> Mon, 16 May 2022 11:42:05 +0100: Janet <nobody@home.com> scribeva:
>>>>>> Not at all; it's in common everyday Br E usage.
>>>>>
>>>>> I now suddenly remember "if it's not too dear". The Beatles.
>>>>> Maxwell's Silver Hammer? No. When I'm sixty-four? Yes:
>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCTunqv1Xt4&t=1m33s
>>>>
>>>> I missed an opportunity ten years ago. I wanted to get a photo of my
>>>> friends Vera, Chook,
>>>
>>> It's Chuck. That it may seem to sound like Chook is due to the
>>> Liverpool accent, or Northern English accent in general. By the way, I
>>> noticed yesterday, for the first time, that he (Paul McCartney)
>>> employs a strange different accent (attempted Scottish, maybe?) just
>>> before that.
>>
>> Where, precisely, do you hear that? I Listened to the version at
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTgbWmaxu5s
>> but could not detect anything like that all the way from
>> "Every summer we can rent..."
>>
>> I imagine it's because I am not familiar enough with the various UK
>> accents.
>>
> There is a hint of it in the line:
>
> "grandchildren on y're knee"
>
> That "y're" sounds like an imitation of a Scots accent.

OK. TBH I would have expected a trilled 'r' if it was an attempt at a
Scots accent. Basically, I still can't differentiate it from the rest of
the vocals, accent-wise.

> I don't know where "Chuck" came from.  It isn't a diminutive form of
> Charles that I've ever heard in BrE.

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

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Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
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 by: Peter Moylan - Wed, 18 May 2022 01:15 UTC

On 18/05/22 07:05, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 4:17:18 PM UTC-4, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
>> On Tue, 17 May 2022 08:47:42 -0700 (PDT) "Peter T. Daniels"
>> <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>>>> are willing to laugh at themselves, and, having read Shute's
>>>> works, perhaps some of his fondness for the place has rubbed
>>>> off.
>>> Of course. Australia has never felt an urge to throw off the
>>> yoke of British imperialism.
>>
>> At least they haven't (so far) started out on their own
>> imperialism.
>
> Someone seems not to have kept up with South Pacific current events.

It's true that some Pacific islanders see Australians as arrogant
imperialists, but Australia's big mistake in the Solomon Islands affair
was to cut foreign aid.

An even bigger factor was that parts of the Solomons were getting
significant money from Taiwan. When the Solomon Islands government
decided to recognise China and snub Taiwan, that caused riots.
Australian police helped to put down the riots, but that was viewed by
some as meaning that Australia was supporting only the pro-Chinese
faction. It's a bit of a tangled web.

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

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Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
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 by: Peter Moylan - Wed, 18 May 2022 01:34 UTC

On 18/05/22 04:38, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 2:04:15 PM UTC-4, Quinn C wrote:
>> * Peter T. Daniels:
>>> On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 2:23:28 AM UTC-4, Athel
>>> Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>>>> On 2022-05-17 05:32:40 +0000, Ruud Harmsen said:
>>>>> Tue, 17 May 2022 10:57:09 +1000: Peter Moylan
>>>>> <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> scribeva:
>
>>>>>> I missed an opportunity ten years ago. I wanted to get a
>>>>>> photo of my friends Vera, Chook,
>>>>> It's Chuck.
>>>> You think you know better than Peter how his friend's name was
>>>> written?
>>> You couldn't figure out that he was referring to the original
>>> that PM was comparing his list of friend's names to?
>>
>> Since that "original" wasn't quoted, it was easy to get confused
>> what PM was talking about. I've heard the song long ago (although
>> not quite 64 years), but didn't remember such details.

My post quoted Ruud mentioning the song "When I'm sixty-four". Ruud's
post was the immediately preceding one in the thread, so hard to miss.

Is the confusion because some people don't read the posts in thread order?

> I had no idea what he was referencing, but I had no trouble
> understanding that Ruud did know what he was referencing and gave the
> form found in that source. That seems to have been too difficult for
> AC-B.

Athel seems to have been the only one to understand that the proposed
photograph would feature my friends, not the people in the song.

If I gave anyone the impression that I had planned to go to Liverpool
and photograph people there, I apologise for giving that impression.

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

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Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
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 by: Peter Moylan - Wed, 18 May 2022 01:46 UTC

On 18/05/22 03:55, Ruud Harmsen wrote:

>>> It might have been Chuck in Liverpool, but the person I know is called
>>> Chook. He got his nickname from his surname, Fowler.
>
> Tue, 17 May 2022 08:51:05 -0700 (PDT): "Peter T. Daniels"
> <grammatim@verizon.net> scribeva:
>> Ruud probably doesn't know the Australian word "chook."
>
> Indeed I don't. Should I look it up? I should:
> https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/chook
> ==
> noun
> 2. Also called: chookie Australian informal
> a hen or chicken
> 3. Australian informal
> a woman, esp a more mature one
> ==

Wow. That number 3 probably dropped out of use before my father was
born. But we did occasionally refer to women as "birds" in the 1960s.

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

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Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
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 by: Ruud Harmsen - Wed, 18 May 2022 05:24 UTC

Tue, 17 May 2022 20:53:47 +0200: Athel Cornish-Bowden
<acornish@imm.cnrs.fr> scribeva:

>On 2022-05-17 17:38:14 +0000, Ruud Harmsen said:
>
>> Tue, 17 May 2022 08:23:22 +0200: Athel Cornish-Bowden
>> <acornish@imm.cnrs.fr> scribeva:
>>
>>> On 2022-05-17 05:32:40 +0000, Ruud Harmsen said:
>>>
>>>> Tue, 17 May 2022 10:57:09 +1000: Peter Moylan
>>>> <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> scribeva:
>>>>>
>>>>> [ … ]
>>>>>
>>>>> I missed an opportunity ten years ago. I wanted to get a photo of my
>>>>> friends Vera, Chook,
>>>>
>>>> It's Chuck.
>>>
>>> You think you know better than Peter how his friend's name was written?
>>
>> I'm talking about the song, and accents of British English.
>
>Peter was talking about his friends. If you were talking about
>something else, why not say so?

I said so, I mentioned the Beatles song repeatedly, and analysed the
pronunciation in the song. This group is about English, or am I wrong?

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-lm&q=chook+fowler
New South Wales.

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 by: Ruud Harmsen - Wed, 18 May 2022 05:26 UTC

Wed, 18 May 2022 11:46:15 +1000: Peter Moylan
<peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> scribeva:

>On 18/05/22 03:55, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
>
>>>> It might have been Chuck in Liverpool, but the person I know is called
>>>> Chook. He got his nickname from his surname, Fowler.
>>
>> Tue, 17 May 2022 08:51:05 -0700 (PDT): "Peter T. Daniels"
>> <grammatim@verizon.net> scribeva:
>>> Ruud probably doesn't know the Australian word "chook."
>>
>> Indeed I don't. Should I look it up? I should:
>> https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/chook
>> ==
>> noun
>> 2. Also called: chookie Australian informal
>> a hen or chicken
>> 3. Australian informal
>> a woman, esp a more mature one
>> ==
>
>Wow. That number 3 probably dropped out of use before my father was
>born. But we did occasionally refer to women as "birds" in the 1960s.

Common in England too, I think.

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 by: bil...@shaw.ca - Wed, 18 May 2022 06:09 UTC

On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 6:57:03 PM UTC-7, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 16/05/22 05:02, Paul Wolff wrote:
> > On Sun, 15 May 2022, at 08:55:00, Ken Blake posted:
> >> You are correct. In AmE a "subway" is what BrE calls "tube" or
> >> "underground."
> >
> > That is why my wife and I didn't get lunch in Anaheim, a suburb of
> > Los Angeles, after a business meeting. We were told we could get it
> > at a subway, which was [in a given direction]. We couldn't find the
> > subway. In the end, we gave up, and found a fast sandwich place
> > instead.
> Unfamiliar terminology can be a real trap for travellers.
>
> I was once having lunch somewhere in Califormia, and realised that I had
> forgotten how to get back to the SF Bay area, so I asked how to get
> there. Somebody said "Take the 5" (or it might have been a different
> number), and I didn't have a clue what they meant. Luckily I got a
> better answer when I rephrased my question as "Where can I find a
> freeway entrance?"

The first time I drove in the U.S. was in the late 1970s, during Menachem Begin's
presidency of Israel. The first couple of times I drove on the I-5 and other
freeways, I kept noticing signs that said "Begin Freeway", and I wondered why
the guy was that popular in the Pacific Northwest. I eventually worked it out.

bill

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Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
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 by: Hibou - Wed, 18 May 2022 06:09 UTC

Le 17/05/2022 à 14:15, Peter Moylan a écrit :
> On 17/05/22 22:25, Silvano wrote:
>> Peter Moylan hat am 17.05.2022 um 13:07 geschrieben:
> [...]
>>> One factor that has made this noticeable to me is that the exact
>>> opposite is happening in French, where the simple past has been
>>> almost completely replaced by the "passé composé", a tense that is
>>> syntactically identical to the present perfect.
>>
>> _Is_ happening? When I had my first contact with French, well over
>> 50 years ago, this process had already been completed. AFAIK, you'll
>> find the simple past in French only in history books, but never in
>> the spoken language.
>
> Never? I'll accept "almost never", but I've met some exceptions. A
> sentence that springs to mind is "Ce fut un grand succès", which was
> said in my hearing in the mid-1980s. But then the verb "to be" is an
> exception to general trends in a number of languages.

Yes, it's rare in speech, but does crop up in political allocutions, for
instance.

Last night I watched the film 'Alice et le maire' (2019) on ARTE. In
composing a speech, the mayor used « Il fut un temps » as a refrain.

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Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
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 by: Hibou - Wed, 18 May 2022 06:09 UTC

Le 17/05/2022 à 16:47, Peter T. Daniels a écrit :
> On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 3:45:41 AM UTC-4, Hibou wrote:
>>
>> I feel there are some large differences between the US and Britain.
>> Familiarity obscures this, plus the fact that we can more or less
>> understand each other without translators. Partly it is because America
>> is a young nation. The Wild West ended just over 100 years ago
>> (Wikipedia), and has I suppose left its legacy in the continued right to
>> bear arms, which seems very strange to us.
>
> OMG. The Bill of Rights was written in 1790.

If you say so. The point is the mentality still seems to exist, and I'm
talking here about differences in mentality and how they are expressed
in language.

> The "Wild West" never existed, but was created as a fantasy in
> the post-Civil War years -- the heyday being, say, the 1880s (when
> "Buffalo Bill" toured throughout Europe for years, giving rise to
> such fantasy-writers as Carl May).

So all those Westerns, of which several are still shown every day here
on terrestrial TV - all those shoot-outs and waggon trains and heroic
frontiersmen and miffed Injuns firing arrows at them... - all that is
untrue?

America has told itself and sold itself a big lie?

Is that psychologically healthy?

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Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
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 by: Hibou - Wed, 18 May 2022 06:11 UTC

Le 17/05/2022 à 16:40, Peter T. Daniels a écrit :
> On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 2:10:28 AM UTC-4, Hibou wrote:

I apologise in advance. Lacking time, I am going to reply selectively.

>> All British people who do not hide themselves away in caves and cellars
>> are continuously exposed to American speech. Most of the films and
>> series on TV are American. British films, past and present, normally
>> include at least one American because otherwise they would not sell in
>> America. American experts are routinely interviewed on the radio (the
>> BBC sounds more and more like Voice of America). American reporters
>> appear in the news, American comedians in quiz shows, and so on and so
>> on. There are Americans living in Britain (~166,000 in 2021 (Statista) -
>> one of them in my immediate circle). We are saturated in American speech.
>
> [...] No matter how many Americans you are exposed to, you do not
> learn to talk like them, except with a handful of distinctive vocabulary
> items (sometimes misused) and exaggerated r's.

Well, it isn't a question of learning to talk like an American, but of
observing how Americans talk. Listener are going to be sensitive to
where that differs from their own dialect.

>> The perfect is used when the effects of a past event are still relevant
>> now. People do say "I've already eaten", but in this context the
>
> In _what_ context? Not the slightest hint of a context was offered,
> other than "in books at least."

I'm sorry. I thought the context was obvious from the formulations - the
refusal of food because one is still digesting a previous meal.

>> 'already' is superfluous. "I ate", on the other hand, is not anchored in
>> time and requires something extra to tie it to now.
>
> As I said, when the "perfect" is used depends on context, and singling
> out those two perfectly common expressions as some sort of difference
> is asinine.

Asinine?

>>> Do you withdraw your claim about "fine" (what do you imagine makes
>>> that an "adverb"?) vs. "good"? [...]
>>
>> No. I think it's an example of linguistic inflation. Britons aren't
>> immune to it, but I think Americans indulge in it more.
>
> I have no idea what this particular bit of bigotry is supposed to mean.

If you don't understand it, how do you know it's bigotry?

> But evidently you have no idea of the meaning of "adverb" (which
> as it's used in English school grammar is meaningless anyway).

You do shoot off at high speed in random directions, don't you?

But it's true that I haven't answered the question about why 'fine' is
an adverb in this context.

The exchange "How are you?" "Fine" is abbreviated, and in full would be
"How are you doing?" "I am doing fine." 'Fine' qualifies 'am doing' and
is therefore an adverb.

When an American replies "Good", that is a non sequitur. "I am doing
good" means that one is working to improve the world, and does not
answer the question "How are you doing?"

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

<te498hllimk7jjmoq22ma1eu0ggpgavap5@4ax.com>

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From: rh...@rudhar.com (Ruud Harmsen)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
Date: Wed, 18 May 2022 08:27:47 +0200
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 by: Ruud Harmsen - Wed, 18 May 2022 06:27 UTC

Tue, 17 May 2022 13:34:17 -0600: lar3ryca <larry@invalid.ca> scribeva:

>On 2022-05-16 23:32, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
>> Tue, 17 May 2022 10:57:09 +1000: Peter Moylan
>> <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> scribeva:
>>
>>> On 17/05/22 01:33, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
>>>>>> Sat, 14 May 2022 13:52:31 -0600: lar3ryca <larry@invalid.ca>
>>>>>> scribeva:
>>>>>>> Hmmm... since 'dear' (in English), is a synonym of 'costly'
>>>>>>> and 'expensive',
>>>>
>>>>> In article <amf28hlb5kti5m62uobvdr6f3sk21efqmf@4ax.com>,
>>>>> rh@rudhar.com says...
>>>>>> But an unusual one, then.
>>>>
>>>> Mon, 16 May 2022 11:42:05 +0100: Janet <nobody@home.com> scribeva:
>>>>> Not at all; it's in common everyday Br E usage.
>>>>
>>>> I now suddenly remember "if it's not too dear". The Beatles.
>>>> Maxwell's Silver Hammer? No. When I'm sixty-four? Yes:
>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCTunqv1Xt4&t=1m33s
>>>
>>> I missed an opportunity ten years ago. I wanted to get a photo of my
>>> friends Vera, Chook,
>>
>> It's Chuck. That it may seem to sound like Chook is due to the
>> Liverpool accent, or Northern English accent in general. By the way, I
>> noticed yesterday, for the first time, that he (Paul McCartney)
>> employs a strange different accent (attempted Scottish, maybe?) just
>> before that.
>
>Where, precisely, do you hear that? I Listened to the version at
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTgbWmaxu5s
>but could not detect anything like that all the way from
>"Every summer we can rent..."

The sound quality of that version is not good enough so you can hear
it. "Grrrandchildren on yerrr knee." In that remastered version it is
audible, from 1:48:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCTunqv1Xt4&t=1m48s

>I imagine it's because I am not familiar enough with the various UK accents.

No. Just the sound quality.

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

<t626ju$e2q$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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From: h.i...@b.ou (Hibou)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
Date: Wed, 18 May 2022 08:18:21 +0100
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 by: Hibou - Wed, 18 May 2022 07:18 UTC

Le 18/05/2022 à 07:11, Hibou a écrit :
>
> But it's true that I haven't answered the question about why 'fine' is
> an adverb in this context.
>
> The exchange "How are you?" "Fine" is abbreviated, and in full would be
> "How are you doing?" "I am doing fine." 'Fine' qualifies 'am doing' and
> is therefore an adverb.
>
> When an American replies "Good", that is a non sequitur. "I am doing
> good" means that one is working to improve the world, and does not
> answer the question "How are you doing?"

So I did make a mistake, but not about 'fine'. 'Good' here is a noun,
not an adjective.

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