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interests / alt.usage.english / Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

SubjectAuthor
* An interlingual phonetic coincidenceBebercito
+- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceStefan Ram
+* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter T. Daniels
|`* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceBebercito
| +- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencespains...@gmail.com
| `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter T. Daniels
|  +- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceQuinn C
|  `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceBebercito
|   +- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceCDB
|   `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceRoss Clark
|    +* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceBebercito
|    |`* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter T. Daniels
|    | `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceBebercito
|    |  +- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter T. Daniels
|    |  `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceRoss Clark
|    |   +* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceStefan Ram
|    |   |`- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceRoss Clark
|    |   `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceBebercito
|    |    +- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceBebercito
|    |    `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceRoss Clark
|    |     `- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceBebercito
|    `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceSnidely
|     `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceAthel Cornish-Bowden
|      +* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceKen Blake
|      |`* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceSnidely
|      | +- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceSnidely
|      | +- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceCDB
|      | +* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter T. Daniels
|      | |`* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceAdam Funk
|      | | `- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter T. Daniels
|      | `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceQuinn C
|      |  +* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencelar3ryca
|      |  |`- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceStefan Ram
|      |  `- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencelar3ryca
|      `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceHibou
|       +* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter Moylan
|       |`* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceHibou
|       | +* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter Moylan
|       | |+* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceHibou
|       | ||+* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter Moylan
|       | |||`- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceDingbat
|       | ||`- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceKerr-Mudd, John
|       | |`* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceKen Blake
|       | | +* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencecharles
|       | | |+* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceKen Blake
|       | | ||+- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencecharles
|       | | ||`* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter Moylan
|       | | || `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceKen Blake
|       | | ||  +* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceLewis
|       | | ||  |`- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter Moylan
|       | | ||  `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceQuinn C
|       | | ||   `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceKen Blake
|       | | ||    +- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter T. Daniels
|       | | ||    `- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceKerr-Mudd, John
|       | | |+* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencelar3ryca
|       | | ||+* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceTony Cooper
|       | | |||+- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceGordonD
|       | | |||`- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter T. Daniels
|       | | ||+* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceSam Plusnet
|       | | |||`* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencelar3ryca
|       | | ||| `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceSam Plusnet
|       | | |||  `- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencelar3ryca
|       | | ||`* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePaul Wolff
|       | | || `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceJoy Beeson
|       | | ||  `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceSam Plusnet
|       | | ||   +* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceStefan Ram
|       | | ||   |`* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceRichard Heathfield
|       | | ||   | `- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceSam Plusnet
|       | | ||   `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceJanet
|       | | ||    `- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceMack A. Damia
|       | | |`- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter T. Daniels
|       | | `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePaul Wolff
|       | |  +- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceTony Cooper
|       | |  `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter Moylan
|       | |   +- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencelar3ryca
|       | |   +* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencelar3ryca
|       | |   |+* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter T. Daniels
|       | |   ||`- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter Moylan
|       | |   |`* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceSnidely
|       | |   | `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencelar3ryca
|       | |   |  +* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter Moylan
|       | |   |  |`* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceAnders D. Nygaard
|       | |   |  | `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceMark Brader
|       | |   |  |  `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceQuinn C
|       | |   |  |   `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceBebercito
|       | |   |  |    `- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceQuinn C
|       | |   |  `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceMark Brader
|       | |   |   `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceTony Cooper
|       | |   |    +* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencebil...@shaw.ca
|       | |   |    |+* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter T. Daniels
|       | |   |    ||`* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceJerry Friedman
|       | |   |    || +- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter Moylan
|       | |   |    || `- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceMadhu
|       | |   |    |`- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceKen Blake
|       | |   |    `- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceAthel Cornish-Bowden
|       | |   `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencebil...@shaw.ca
|       | |    +* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceKerr-Mudd, John
|       | |    |+* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter Moylan
|       | |    ||+* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceKen Blake
|       | |    |||`* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter Moylan
|       | |    ||| `- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceSilvano
|       | |    ||`- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceStoat
|       | |    |+- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceQuinn C
|       | |    |+- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceSam Plusnet
|       | |    |`* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencecharles
|       | |    `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceJerry Friedman
|       | `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceTony Cooper
|       +* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter T. Daniels
|       `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceSnidely
`* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceDingbat

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Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

<mn.93397e6590335e06.127094@snitoo>

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From: snidely....@gmail.com (Snidely)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
Date: Wed, 18 May 2022 13:45:24 -0700
Organization: Dis One
Lines: 43
Message-ID: <mn.93397e6590335e06.127094@snitoo>
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 by: Snidely - Wed, 18 May 2022 20:45 UTC

With a quizzical look, charles observed:
> In article <stkok8ncvo9y.dlg@mid.crommatograph.info>,
> Quinn C <lispamateur@crommatograph.info> wrote:
>> * Peter T. Daniels:
>
>>> On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 2:23:28 AM UTC-4, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>>>> On 2022-05-17 05:32:40 +0000, Ruud Harmsen said:
>>>>> Tue, 17 May 2022 10:57:09 +1000: Peter Moylan
>>>>> <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> scribeva:
>>>>>> I missed an opportunity ten years ago. I wanted to get a photo of my
>>>>>> friends Vera, Chook,
>>>>> It's Chuck.
>>>>
>>>> You think you know better than Peter how his friend's name was written?
>>>
>>> You couldn't figure out that he was referring to the original that PM
>>> was comparing his list of friend's names to?
>
>> Since that "original" wasn't quoted, it was easy to get confused what PM
>> was talking about. I've heard the song long ago (although not quite 64
>> years), but didn't remember such details.
>
>> Looking at the lyrics now, I'm actually confused as to what those names
>> represent. The grandchildren? It's unclear, and apparently, it wasn't
>> clear to the writers.
>
>> My 64th isn't so far away, so I could start planning, but I've known
>> only one Vera in my life, back in high school, no Chuck and can't come
>> up with a memory of a Dave or David on the spot, although it feels there
>> should've been at least one.
>
> I've only knwn one Vera, but it ws probably a common watime name after Vera
> Lyn - the singer. I have a cousin David and kow at leat 3 others.

In AUE terms, many of us remember The Omrud.

/dps

--
"That’s where I end with this kind of conversation: Language is
crucial, and yet not the answer."
Jonathan Rosa, sociocultural and linguistic anthropologist,
Stanford.,2020

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

<20220518214721.aa25424dc07fc05fce4c1aa0@127.0.0.1>

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From: adm...@127.0.0.1 (Kerr-Mudd, John)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
Date: Wed, 18 May 2022 21:47:21 +0100
Organization: Dis
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GNU: Terry Pratchett
 by: Kerr-Mudd, John - Wed, 18 May 2022 20:47 UTC

On Wed, 18 May 2022 19:10:35 +0100
Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:

[]
>
> <mild swerve> I rewatched the Beatles parody last night.
>
> "The Rutles: All you need is cash"
>
> It included a lot of parody songs written & performed by Neil Innes.
> Not a one of them would have been out of place in the Lennon/McCartney
> catalogue.
>
>
Very well done stuff; George Harrison was involved (in both groups).

non-naked url:

Cheese & Onions!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePaHG6g7uFw

Yellow Submarine Sandwich (there, back to a Crusty old topic)

> --
> Sam Plusnet

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

<mGWjp3DitVhiFA+V@wolff.co.uk>

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From: bounc...@thiswontwork.wolff.co.uk (Paul Wolff)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
Date: Wed, 18 May 2022 21:47:30 +0100
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 by: Paul Wolff - Wed, 18 May 2022 20:47 UTC

On Wed, 18 May 2022, at 10:29:46, CDB posted:
>On 5/18/2022 9:41 AM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>> Hibou wrote:
>>> Hibou a écrit :
>
>>>> But it's true that I haven't answered the question about why
>>>> 'fine' is an adverb in this context. The exchange "How are you?"
>>>> "Fine" is abbreviated, and in full would be "How are you doing?"
>>>> "I am doing fine." 'Fine' qualifies 'am doing' and is therefore
>>>> an adverb. When an American replies "Good", that is a non
>>>> sequitur. "I am doing good" means that one is working to improve
>>>> the world, and does not answer the question "How are you doing?"
>
>>> So I did make a mistake, but not about 'fine'. 'Good' here is a
>>> noun, not an adjective.
>
>> Good grief.
>
>owls are so obsessed with categories, you'd think they were mice.
>
>I believe what Peter meant by "good grief" is that "good" is an
>adjective in that phrase and also in an American response to "howya
>doin'?": in that case, it's an adjective in adverbial use.

It seems to me that 'how' in 'how are you?' is an interrogative adverb,
so any good one-word answer must have adverbial force.
--
Paul

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

<mn.93437e65257d622b.127094@snitoo>

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From: snidely....@gmail.com (Snidely)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
Date: Wed, 18 May 2022 13:55:25 -0700
Organization: Dis One
Lines: 46
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 by: Snidely - Wed, 18 May 2022 20:55 UTC

On Wednesday, Ruud Harmsen pointed out that ...
> Wed, 18 May 2022 11:06:01 +0200: Athel Cornish-Bowden
> <acornish@imm.cnrs.fr> scribeva:

>>>> Peter was talking about his friends. If you were talking about
>>>> something else, why not say so?
>>>
>>> I said so, I mentioned the Beatles song repeatedly,
>>
>> Only after you had made the silly comment about Peter's friends.
>
> I have never ever made any comment about Peter Moylan's friends. How
> could I? I don't know them, I don't even know him.
>
> It was a misunderstanding of the stoning mobs here, as I have
> explained several times already.

No, it was YOUR misunderstanding. It was clear that Peter was talking
about HIS friends (clear to me, even though I don't know those friends
and only know Peter through his postings) and the coincidence of their
having names which fit the lyrics.

>> However, you can comfort yourself with the thought that the world's
>> greatest expert on writing systems considered that it was OK to express
>> your ideas in the wrong order.
>
> He didn't, and I didn't. I was always referring to the Beatles song
> only, so there is no ordering.

But there is an ordering. Because you missed Peter's point, you
changed the subject.

> I suspected Peter Moylan had
> misinterpreted the song, that's all.

Very perceptive.

> Nothing to get so needlessly
> upset about.

Bah!

/dps

--
Yes, I have had a cucumber soda. Why do you ask?

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

<Money-20220518220117@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>

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From: ram...@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
Date: 18 May 2022 21:02:14 GMT
Organization: Stefan Ram
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 by: Stefan Ram - Wed, 18 May 2022 21:02 UTC

Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> writes:
>I rewatched the Beatles parody last night.
>"The Rutles: All you need is cash"

I think that also was the idea behind "We're Only in
It for the Money", the third studio album by the Mothers
of Invention, released on March 4, 1968 by Verve Records,
which satirized the Beatles' album "Sgt. Pepper's Lonely
Hearts Club Band".

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

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From: bounc...@thiswontwork.wolff.co.uk (Paul Wolff)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
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 by: Paul Wolff - Wed, 18 May 2022 21:01 UTC

On Wed, 18 May 2022, at 09:33:05, Kerr-Mudd, John posted:
>"Peter T. Daniels" <grammatim@verizon.net> wrote:
>> On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 4:17:18 PM UTC-4, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
>> > "Peter T. Daniels" <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>> > > > are willing to laugh at themselves, and, having read Shute's works,
>> > > > perhaps some of his fondness for the place has rubbed off.
>> > > Of course. Australia has never felt an urge to throw off the yoke of
>> > > British imperialism.
>> >
>> > At least they haven't (so far) started out on their own imperialism.
>>
[big gap]
>
>> Someone seems not to have kept up with South Pacific current events.
>
>Fair enough. We seem to focus on the Ukraine & Boris, though Strange
>Going Ons in the US intrude,

A recent puzzle was why the BBC promoted to its No. 1 news item some
weeks ago a leaked draft judgement of the American Supreme Court on the
matter of whether abortion was covered by their constitution. I mean -
as a British news headline, that's got everything wrong with it.
Foreign, underhand provenance, irrelevant to British interests. Would
they report a leaked draft ruling of Iranian mullahs on the same subject
in the Iranian constitution? No, of course they wouldn't.

>I think mostly because Brit reporters would like a job in the US.
>
You old cynic.
--
Paul

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

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From: news2012...@gmail.com (Anders D. Nygaard)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
Date: Wed, 18 May 2022 23:20:13 +0200
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 by: Anders D. Nygaard - Wed, 18 May 2022 21:20 UTC

Den 18-05-2022 kl. 17:47 skrev CDB:
> On 5/18/2022 10:23 AM, Jerry Friedman wrote:
>> CDB wrote:
>>> [...]
>>> -- I always wanted to be Charlie, but nooo.
>
>> We can call you Charlie if you want.
>
> Thanks, but you're too late.  Charlie, who was my uncle, is now my
> nephew, and I am often mistaken for a business district.

I thought Bob's your uncle?

/Anders, Denmark

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

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From: lispamat...@crommatograph.info (Quinn C)
Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
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 by: Quinn C - Wed, 18 May 2022 21:45 UTC

* Sam Plusnet:

> On 18-May-22 18:11, Quinn C wrote:
>> * Sam Plusnet:
>>
>>> On 18-May-22 7:09, Hibou wrote:
>>>> Le 17/05/2022 à 16:47, Peter T. Daniels a écrit :
>>> In reply to Hibou
>>>
>>>>> OMG. The Bill of Rights was written in 1790.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Surely "OMG" is an exclamation one would expect from a "Valley Girl"[1],
>>> not a senior citizen in NJ?
>>
>> The point is that young women do such things 20-30 years earlier than
>> anyone else. They get criticized for it, but eventually, the world
>> catches up to them.
>>
> No it doesn't.
> That's quite misleading.
> Young women (& men for that matter)

I hope you don't have an issue with the sociolinguistic observation that
young women are the most innovative group when it comes to language.

> may produce a great number of
> phrases and expressions, but the vast majority of them vanish as quickly
> as they arise. Often that transience is part of their appeal.
>
> The adoption of one single phrase by an eccentric in New Jersey is not
> evidence of some inexorable march of progress.

That's correct in principle, but my comment was taking into account that
with "OMG", that surely has already happened, especially in its written
form within certain types of media.

--
Quinn C
My pronouns are they/them
(or other gender-neutral ones)

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

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From: tonycoop...@gmail.com (Tony Cooper)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
Date: Wed, 18 May 2022 17:53:15 -0400
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 by: Tony Cooper - Wed, 18 May 2022 21:53 UTC

On Wed, 18 May 2022 22:01:36 +0100, Paul Wolff
<bounceme@thiswontwork.wolff.co.uk> wrote:

>On Wed, 18 May 2022, at 09:33:05, Kerr-Mudd, John posted:
>>"Peter T. Daniels" <grammatim@verizon.net> wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 4:17:18 PM UTC-4, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
>>> > "Peter T. Daniels" <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> > > > are willing to laugh at themselves, and, having read Shute's works,
>>> > > > perhaps some of his fondness for the place has rubbed off.
>>> > > Of course. Australia has never felt an urge to throw off the yoke of
>>> > > British imperialism.
>>> >
>>> > At least they haven't (so far) started out on their own imperialism.
>>>
>[big gap]
>>
>>> Someone seems not to have kept up with South Pacific current events.
>>
>>Fair enough. We seem to focus on the Ukraine & Boris, though Strange
>>Going Ons in the US intrude,
>
>A recent puzzle was why the BBC promoted to its No. 1 news item some
>weeks ago a leaked draft judgement of the American Supreme Court on the
>matter of whether abortion was covered by their constitution. I mean -
>as a British news headline, that's got everything wrong with it.
>Foreign, underhand provenance, irrelevant to British interests. Would
>they report a leaked draft ruling of Iranian mullahs on the same subject
>in the Iranian constitution? No, of course they wouldn't.
>
>>I think mostly because Brit reporters would like a job in the US.
>>
>You old cynic.

There is another way of looking at this. Possibly the BBC is tired of
stories about the "Partygate" leaks and wants to inform the British
public that there are leaks in Washington, too, and about subjects
that not nearly so much fun.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/feb/22/leak-confirms-partygate-questionnaire-includes-police-caution
--

Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida

I read and post to this group as a form of entertainment.

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

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From: pet...@pmoylan.org.invalid (Peter Moylan)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
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 by: Peter Moylan - Wed, 18 May 2022 22:23 UTC

On 19/05/22 03:30, lar3ryca wrote:
>
> A friend I worked with in Vancouver was going to travel to
> Newfoundland, and asked me to have another fellow give him
> directions. He was unsure that he could follow written directions, I
> guess.
>
> So I told him it was easy. "Get onto Hwy 1 (Trans-canada Highway).
> Turn left at McLean, SK. Drive 4 miles. My place is on the left.

I used to have a "how to find me" page on my web site. Here are the
instructions for getting to my house from the city centre.

Head west on King Street, and keep going without any turns. (Just to
keep you on your toes, the road keeps changing its name: King St, Parry
St, Donald St, Griffiths Rd, Newcastle Rd.) A block and a half past
Croudace Street, turn left into my driveway.

That was back when I lived on an arterial road. (Something I won't
willingly repeat in the future.) To get to my present house, you have to
make five left turns. (And no right turns: the route sort of spirals in
to my home.)

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

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 by: Peter Moylan - Wed, 18 May 2022 22:29 UTC

On 19/05/22 02:20, Sam Plusnet wrote:
> On 18-May-22 11:50, Adam Funk wrote:
>> On 2022-05-17, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>>
>>> On 17-May-22 11:42, Adam Funk wrote:
>>>> "Oxter" is used in Yorkshire & Derbyshire (at least) as well.
>>>
>>>
>>> I lived in Derbyshire (near the border with Yorkshire) for my first
>>> couple of decades, and never came across it.
>>
>> I've only heard it occasionally --- the subject doesn't come up in a
>> lot of conversations.
>
> It's a long time since I was there for longer than the duration of a
> funeral, so anything after the 1960s would escape my ears.
>
> Conversation at/after funerals doesn't tend to revolve around armpits,
> in my experience.

It should, considering how the coffin is carried.

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

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Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
From: jerry_fr...@yahoo.com (Jerry Friedman)
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 by: Jerry Friedman - Wed, 18 May 2022 22:55 UTC

On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 2:53:21 PM UTC-6, Paul Wolff wrote:
> On Wed, 18 May 2022, at 10:29:46, CDB posted:
> >On 5/18/2022 9:41 AM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> >> Hibou wrote:
> >>> Hibou a écrit :
> >
> >>>> But it's true that I haven't answered the question about why
> >>>> 'fine' is an adverb in this context. The exchange "How are you?"
> >>>> "Fine" is abbreviated, and in full would be "How are you doing?"
> >>>> "I am doing fine." 'Fine' qualifies 'am doing' and is therefore
> >>>> an adverb. When an American replies "Good", that is a non
> >>>> sequitur. "I am doing good" means that one is working to improve
> >>>> the world, and does not answer the question "How are you doing?"
> >
> >>> So I did make a mistake, but not about 'fine'. 'Good' here is a
> >>> noun, not an adjective.
> >
> >> Good grief.
> >
> >owls are so obsessed with categories, you'd think they were mice.
> >
> >I believe what Peter meant by "good grief" is that "good" is an
> >adjective in that phrase and also in an American response to "howya
> >doin'?": in that case, it's an adjective in adverbial use.
>
> It seems to me that 'how' in 'how are you?' is an interrogative adverb,
> so any good one-word answer must have adverbial force.

But they don't. All of those answers are adjectives. (Some of them,
such as "well", "ill", and "poorly" (rare in my country) look like adverbs,
but the OED classifies them as adjectives in the senses we're talking
about, which I think is right.

On the other hand, it classifies "how" as an adverb, which I think is
wrong.

--
Jerry Friedman

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

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From: ram...@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
Date: 18 May 2022 23:31:12 GMT
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 by: Stefan Ram - Wed, 18 May 2022 23:31 UTC

Jerry Friedman <jerry_friedman@yahoo.com> writes:
> it classifies "how" as an adverb, which I think is
>wrong.

If a grammar classifies "how" as a, say, "D7 word", the
correctness of this depends on what else the grammar says
about "D7 words" and whether this correctly describes a
large part of English speech and texts.

I think to understand the classification of "how" as an
adverb, one must define "adverb" quite formally as a word
that is directly subordinate to the verb of its clause and
is not a subject nor an object.

"How is she?". The verb is "is", "she" is the subject and
then, there is "how". "How" is not subordinate to "she",
"how" is directly subordinate to "is", but not as an object.
So some people call it an "adverb".

"How far y'all going?". Here "how" is directly subordinate
to "far", modifying it. "Far" is an adjective, so a word
modifying an adjective must be an adverb.

The preceding two paragraphs are but one possibility for a
grammar. Other grammars are well possible where "how" is
/not/ called "adverb".

The BNC is wordclass-tagged using a set of 57 tags (known as
C5) which some refer to as the "BNC Basic Tagset". The class
of "how" in the BNC tagset is "AVQ" "Wh-adverb (e.g. when,
where, how, why, wherever)".

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

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From: pet...@pmoylan.org.invalid (Peter Moylan)
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Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
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 by: Peter Moylan - Thu, 19 May 2022 00:24 UTC

On 18/05/22 23:25, Peter T. Daniels wrote:

> Shirley, there's a Liverpool somewhere in Australia?

There is, but people there don't pronounce Chuck to rhyme with chook.

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

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Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
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 by: Peter Moylan - Thu, 19 May 2022 00:42 UTC

On 19/05/22 02:31, Sam Plusnet wrote:
> On 18-May-22 1:59, Tony Cooper wrote:
>> On Wed, 18 May 2022 01:33:33 +0100, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com>
>> wrote:
> (Of When I'm sixtyfour.)
>
>>> I don't know where "Chuck" came from. It isn't a diminutive form
>>> of Charles that I've ever heard in BrE.
>>
>> Some here will remember Charles Riggs. While he lived in Ireland,
>> he was an American. He had been living in Ireland when I first
>> encountered him here in a.u.e.
>>
>> He posted as "Chuck Riggs" and at other times as "Charles Riggs".
>>
>> https://www.mail-archive.com/alt.usage.english@googlegroups.com/msg00070.html
>>
>>
>> In this thread, he posts as "Chuck", but discusses "chuckless
>> Ireland".
>>
>> https://alt.usage.english.narkive.com/r9E9jpWv/literary-bulletin#post2
>
>>
> Fair enough, but is any evidence that Paul McCartney knew of aue when
> he wrote the song - in 1967?

His choosing that name continues to be a mystery. I would have guessed
that Chuck is a name that one almost never encounters in England.

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

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Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
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 by: Peter Moylan - Thu, 19 May 2022 01:33 UTC

On 19/05/22 02:14, Ken Blake wrote:
> On Wed, 18 May 2022 21:35:20 +1000, Peter Moylan
> <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 18/05/22 18:40, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
>>> On Tue, 17 May 2022 23:09:01 -0700 (PDT) "bil...@shaw.ca"
>>> <billvan@shaw.ca> wrote:
>>
>>>> The first time I drove in the U.S. was in the late 1970s,
>>>> during Menachem Begin's presidency of Israel. The first couple
>>>> of times I drove on the I-5 and other freeways, I kept noticing
>>>> signs that said "Begin Freeway", and I wondered why the guy was
>>>> that popular in the Pacific Northwest. I eventually worked it
>>>> out.
>>>>
>>> In Germany 'Ausfahrt' seems a very popular village, it's
>>> signposted from all major roads.
>>
>> In my earliest experiences of Belgium I was amazed to see how many
>> roads went from Uitrit to Sortie.
>
> Speaking of town names, I once drove through Bastardo, in Umbria,
> Italy.

I once heard of an American tourist who got onto a bus in Italy and said
"Una, grassína" to the driver. The town of Grassina is, I'm told,
pronounced with first-syllable stress. By saying it with penultimate
stress, as she did, she had said something like "One fat woman".

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

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 by: Stoat - Thu, 19 May 2022 01:34 UTC

On 18/05/22 11:35 pm, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 18/05/22 18:40, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
>> On Tue, 17 May 2022 23:09:01 -0700 (PDT) "bil...@shaw.ca"
>> <billvan@shaw.ca> wrote:
>
>>> The first time I drove in the U.S. was in the late 1970s, during
>>> Menachem Begin's presidency of Israel.  The first couple of times I
>>> drove on the I-5 and other freeways, I kept noticing signs that
>>> said "Begin Freeway", and I wondered why the guy was that popular
>>> in the Pacific Northwest. I eventually worked it out.
>>>
>> In Germany 'Ausfahrt' seems a very popular village, it's signposted
>> from all major roads.

Better out than in.

>
> In my earliest experiences of Belgium I was amazed to see how many roads
> went from Uitrit to Sortie.
>

For while I had a daily commute on I95 from New Haven (CT) to Madison.
There was a sign saying 'Foxon', but I never saw the sign saying "Foxoff'.

--brian

--
Wellington
New Zealand

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

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From: enom...@meer.net (Madhu)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
Date: Thu, 19 May 2022 07:23:36 +0530
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 by: Madhu - Thu, 19 May 2022 01:53 UTC

* "Peter T. Daniels" <5cebf1ad-6f53-4d1d-a3d2-6d478d000ee9n @googlegroups.com> :
Wrote on Wed, 18 May 2022 13:13:52 -0700 (PDT):

> If you hadn't thoroughly scrubbed the context, you would have seen
> that it was a reaction to the suggestion that the Right to Bear Arms
> was invented in connection with the "Wild West."

(For reference Hibou's post was message if <t5vjr0$1abd$1 @gioia.aioe.org> )

I thought[1] the right to bear arms was a british thing, from "armorial
bearings", and coat of arms being associated with the weaponry. The
democratisation process in america meant that the the right to bear arms
was not restricted to the authorised herarldry

[1] fancifully

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

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 by: Mark Brader - Thu, 19 May 2022 02:40 UTC

"Larry" (copyedited):
>>> ...He had our address, but was wondering how he could find out office.
>>> I told him to get onto I5 and when he got to the cross-street one
>>> block from the T-junction, to make a left turn, and drive one block.

> At the border, the I-5 becomes Hwy 99.

It's only in southern California and southern Ontario that main roads
get a "the". When you get to the border you're on I-5.

> After crossing the Fraser River,
> Hwy 99 becomes Oak St. Coming down the hill At about West 8th St., you
> could see the T-junction where Oak St. ended at E Broadway. At that
> time, East 7th Avenue was the last street before the T-junction
>
> So I just told him to get onto I-5 and stay on the road all the way to
> one block before a T-junction.

Yeah, nice.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | "I can't see the future -- I don't have
msb@vex.net | 2020 vision." --Ian Walmsley, 2018

My text in this article is in the public domain.

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

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From: rjh...@cpax.org.uk (Richard Heathfield)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
Date: Thu, 19 May 2022 03:46:29 +0100
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 by: Richard Heathfield - Thu, 19 May 2022 02:46 UTC

On 18/05/2022 10:02 pm, Stefan Ram wrote:
> Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> writes:
>> I rewatched the Beatles parody last night.
>> "The Rutles: All you need is cash"
>
> I think that also was the idea behind "We're Only in
> It for the Money"

"You're listening to the product
Of considerable neglect,
But for a lousy one pound eighty, tell me,
What did you expect?"

-- 'Another Boring B-Side', Morris Minor and the Majors.

--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

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Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
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 by: Tony Cooper - Thu, 19 May 2022 04:19 UTC

On Wed, 18 May 2022 21:40:42 -0500, msb@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote:

>"Larry" (copyedited):
>>>> ...He had our address, but was wondering how he could find out office.
>>>> I told him to get onto I5 and when he got to the cross-street one
>>>> block from the T-junction, to make a left turn, and drive one block.
>
>> At the border, the I-5 becomes Hwy 99.
>
>It's only in southern California and southern Ontario that main roads
>get a "the". When you get to the border you're on I-5.

In this area, it's "take I-4" and "take the East-West" or "take the
408" (the East-West Expressway is also SR 408).

Traffic reports will say "traffic is heavy on I-4" and "traffic is
heavy on the 408".

--

Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida

I read and post to this group as a form of entertainment.

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

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Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
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 by: Tony Cooper - Thu, 19 May 2022 04:27 UTC

On Thu, 19 May 2022 07:23:36 +0530, Madhu <enometh@meer.net> wrote:

>
>* "Peter T. Daniels" <5cebf1ad-6f53-4d1d-a3d2-6d478d000ee9n @googlegroups.com> :
>Wrote on Wed, 18 May 2022 13:13:52 -0700 (PDT):
>
>> If you hadn't thoroughly scrubbed the context, you would have seen
>> that it was a reaction to the suggestion that the Right to Bear Arms
>> was invented in connection with the "Wild West."
>
>(For reference Hibou's post was message if <t5vjr0$1abd$1 @gioia.aioe.org> )
>
>I thought[1] the right to bear arms was a british thing, from "armorial
>bearings", and coat of arms being associated with the weaponry. The
>democratisation process in america meant that the the right to bear arms
>was not restricted to the authorised herarldry

The phrase comes from the Second Amendment to the United States
Constitution: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the
security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear
Arms, shall not be infringed."

We refer to the Amendments as the Bill of Rights.
--

Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida

I read and post to this group as a form of entertainment.

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

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From: rich.ulr...@comcast.net (Rich Ulrich)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
Date: Thu, 19 May 2022 01:45:28 -0400
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 by: Rich Ulrich - Thu, 19 May 2022 05:45 UTC

On Thu, 19 May 2022 00:27:36 -0400, Tony Cooper
<tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Thu, 19 May 2022 07:23:36 +0530, Madhu <enometh@meer.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>* "Peter T. Daniels" <5cebf1ad-6f53-4d1d-a3d2-6d478d000ee9n @googlegroups.com> :
>>Wrote on Wed, 18 May 2022 13:13:52 -0700 (PDT):
>>
>>> If you hadn't thoroughly scrubbed the context, you would have seen
>>> that it was a reaction to the suggestion that the Right to Bear Arms
>>> was invented in connection with the "Wild West."
>>
>>(For reference Hibou's post was message if <t5vjr0$1abd$1 @gioia.aioe.org> )
>>
>>I thought[1] the right to bear arms was a british thing, from "armorial
>>bearings", and coat of arms being associated with the weaponry. The
>>democratisation process in america meant that the the right to bear arms
>>was not restricted to the authorised herarldry
>
>The phrase comes from the Second Amendment to the United States
>Constitution: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the
>security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear
>Arms, shall not be infringed."

Of mild AUE interest: Yes, that is properly quoted, word for word,
phrase for phrase, with every comma. Not modern English.

In the history of constitutional interpretation, that phrase about
Militia was prominent in justifying the Court's history and tradition
of regulation of handguns, etc.

A few years ago, the Supreme Court simplified the parsing by
(without saying so) deciding to ignore "militia" phrase, entirely.
Then, drop one comma and you get an ordinary, modern reading.

The decision also was notable for relying on a 17th century English
precedent. I think that the arrogant amateur historian is Alito.

>
>We refer to the Amendments as the Bill of Rights.

Only the first 10 Amendments are the Bill of Rights; the Constitution
plus these amendments were approved at one go. They were
written to answer objections made to the original proposed
version. Wikipedia:

Contrary to Madison's proposal that the proposed amendments be
incorporated into the main body of the Constitution (at the relevant
articles and sections of the document), they were proposed as
supplemental additions (codicils) to it.[3] Articles Three through
Twelve were ratified as additions to the Constitution on December
15, 1791, and became Amendments One through Ten of the Constitution.
Article Two became part of the Constitution on May 5, 1992, as the
Twenty-seventh Amendment. Article One is still pending before the
states.

--
Rich Ulrich

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

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From: rh...@rudhar.com (Ruud Harmsen)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
Date: Thu, 19 May 2022 07:50:38 +0200
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 by: Ruud Harmsen - Thu, 19 May 2022 05:50 UTC

Wed, 18 May 2022 13:55:25 -0700: Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com>
scribeva:

>On Wednesday, Ruud Harmsen pointed out that ...
>> Wed, 18 May 2022 11:06:01 +0200: Athel Cornish-Bowden
>> <acornish@imm.cnrs.fr> scribeva:
>
>>>>> Peter was talking about his friends. If you were talking about
>>>>> something else, why not say so?
>>>>
>>>> I said so, I mentioned the Beatles song repeatedly,
>>>
>>> Only after you had made the silly comment about Peter's friends.
>>
>> I have never ever made any comment about Peter Moylan's friends. How
>> could I? I don't know them, I don't even know him.
>>
>> It was a misunderstanding of the stoning mobs here, as I have
>> explained several times already.
>
>No, it was YOUR misunderstanding. It was clear that Peter was talking
>about HIS friends

He was. But I wasn't. And the names might have been fictional. Or
slightly changed.

>(clear to me, even though I don't know those friends
>and only know Peter through his postings) and the coincidence of their
>having names which fit the lyrics.

Be that as it may, the point is that I was harshly attacked for what
in reality was a minor issue, only because I am considered an
outsider, not part of the group. Had I been part of the incrowd, noone
would have minded. THAT is the issue, with which I take issue.

>>> However, you can comfort yourself with the thought that the world's
>>> greatest expert on writing systems considered that it was OK to express
>>> your ideas in the wrong order.
>>
>> He didn't, and I didn't. I was always referring to the Beatles song
>> only, so there is no ordering.
>
>But there is an ordering. Because you missed Peter's point, you
>changed the subject.

I ADDED a phonetic subject, or aspect, side-topic, side-note, call it
what you will. As people do here several times a day. But when _I_ do
it, it is suddenly a huge problem.

>> I suspected Peter Moylan had
>> misinterpreted the song, that's all.
>
>Very perceptive.

Had to look that up.
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/perceptive
"If you describe a person or their remarks or thoughts as perceptive,
you think that they are good at noticing or realizing things,
especially things that are not obvious."

I am. Thanks.

>> Nothing to get so needlessly
>> upset about.
>
>Bah!
>
>/dps

--
Ruud Harmsen, http://rudhar.com

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

<t64m5m$19hk$1@gioia.aioe.org>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=131690&group=alt.usage.english#131690

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From: h.i...@b.ou (Hibou)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
Date: Thu, 19 May 2022 06:56:06 +0100
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 by: Hibou - Thu, 19 May 2022 05:56 UTC

Le 18/05/2022 à 14:39, Peter T. Daniels a écrit :
> On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 2:11:06 AM UTC-4, Hibou wrote:
>>
>> Well, it isn't a question of learning to talk like an American, but of
>> observing how Americans talk. Listener are going to be sensitive to
>> where that differs from their own dialect.
>
> It certainly is when it's an actor trying to be believed as an American
> character.

Is that what actors do in native (small n) American productions, made
for the home market and then exported? Why would they do that?

It it what Americans do in quiz shows, when they are interviewed as
experts, when they are journalists reporting from the back or front of
beyond... - try to be believed as American characters?

>> Asinine?
>
> Since the underlying premise is nonsensical.

It's so much easier to assert that than to prove it.

>> If you don't understand it, how do you know it's bigotry?
>
> Contrasting "Britons" with "Americans" regarding something you
> understand nothing about.

Do you think so? You haven't really tested that.

A wise person, faced with an assertion that seems unlikely, will ask for
a source or evidence to back it up. If the assertion turns out to be
well founded, one has not then committed oneself to a flat
contradiction, which may end up looking stupid.

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