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interests / alt.usage.english / Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

SubjectAuthor
* An interlingual phonetic coincidenceBebercito
+- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceStefan Ram
+* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter T. Daniels
|`* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceBebercito
| +- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencespains...@gmail.com
| `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter T. Daniels
|  +- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceQuinn C
|  `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceBebercito
|   +- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceCDB
|   `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceRoss Clark
|    +* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceBebercito
|    |`* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter T. Daniels
|    | `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceBebercito
|    |  +- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter T. Daniels
|    |  `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceRoss Clark
|    |   +* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceStefan Ram
|    |   |`- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceRoss Clark
|    |   `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceBebercito
|    |    +- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceBebercito
|    |    `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceRoss Clark
|    |     `- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceBebercito
|    `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceSnidely
|     `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceAthel Cornish-Bowden
|      +* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceKen Blake
|      |`* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceSnidely
|      | +- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceSnidely
|      | +- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceCDB
|      | +* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter T. Daniels
|      | |`* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceAdam Funk
|      | | `- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter T. Daniels
|      | `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceQuinn C
|      |  +* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencelar3ryca
|      |  |`- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceStefan Ram
|      |  `- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencelar3ryca
|      `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceHibou
|       +* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter Moylan
|       |`* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceHibou
|       | +* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter Moylan
|       | |+* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceHibou
|       | ||+* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter Moylan
|       | |||`- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceDingbat
|       | ||`- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceKerr-Mudd, John
|       | |`* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceKen Blake
|       | | +* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencecharles
|       | | |+* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceKen Blake
|       | | ||+- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencecharles
|       | | ||`* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter Moylan
|       | | || `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceKen Blake
|       | | ||  +* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceLewis
|       | | ||  |`- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter Moylan
|       | | ||  `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceQuinn C
|       | | ||   `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceKen Blake
|       | | ||    +- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter T. Daniels
|       | | ||    `- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceKerr-Mudd, John
|       | | |+* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencelar3ryca
|       | | ||+* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceTony Cooper
|       | | |||+- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceGordonD
|       | | |||`- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter T. Daniels
|       | | ||+* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceSam Plusnet
|       | | |||`* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencelar3ryca
|       | | ||| `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceSam Plusnet
|       | | |||  `- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencelar3ryca
|       | | ||`* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePaul Wolff
|       | | || `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceJoy Beeson
|       | | ||  `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceSam Plusnet
|       | | ||   +* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceStefan Ram
|       | | ||   |`* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceRichard Heathfield
|       | | ||   | `- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceSam Plusnet
|       | | ||   `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceJanet
|       | | ||    `- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceMack A. Damia
|       | | |`- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter T. Daniels
|       | | `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePaul Wolff
|       | |  +- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceTony Cooper
|       | |  `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter Moylan
|       | |   +- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencelar3ryca
|       | |   +* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencelar3ryca
|       | |   |+* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter T. Daniels
|       | |   ||`- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter Moylan
|       | |   |`* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceSnidely
|       | |   | `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencelar3ryca
|       | |   |  +* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter Moylan
|       | |   |  |`* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceAnders D. Nygaard
|       | |   |  | `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceMark Brader
|       | |   |  |  `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceQuinn C
|       | |   |  |   `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceBebercito
|       | |   |  |    `- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceQuinn C
|       | |   |  `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceMark Brader
|       | |   |   `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceTony Cooper
|       | |   |    +* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencebil...@shaw.ca
|       | |   |    |+* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter T. Daniels
|       | |   |    ||`* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceJerry Friedman
|       | |   |    || +- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter Moylan
|       | |   |    || `- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceMadhu
|       | |   |    |`- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceKen Blake
|       | |   |    `- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceAthel Cornish-Bowden
|       | |   `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencebil...@shaw.ca
|       | |    +* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceKerr-Mudd, John
|       | |    |+* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter Moylan
|       | |    ||+* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceKen Blake
|       | |    |||`* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter Moylan
|       | |    ||| `- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceSilvano
|       | |    ||`- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceStoat
|       | |    |+- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceQuinn C
|       | |    |+- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceSam Plusnet
|       | |    |`* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencecharles
|       | |    `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceJerry Friedman
|       | `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceTony Cooper
|       +* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter T. Daniels
|       `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceSnidely
`* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceDingbat

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Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

<t65hbu$h7j$1@dont-email.me>

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From: lar...@invalid.ca (lar3ryca)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
Date: Thu, 19 May 2022 07:40:12 -0600
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 by: lar3ryca - Thu, 19 May 2022 13:40 UTC

On 2022-05-19 03:37, Adam Funk wrote:
> On 2022-05-18, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>
>> On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 12:38:23 PM UTC-4, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>>> On 18-May-22 7:09, Hibou wrote:
>>>> Le 17/05/2022 à 16:47, Peter T. Daniels a écrit :
>>> In reply to Hibou
>>
>>>>> OMG. The Bill of Rights was written in 1790.
>>>
>>> Surely "OMG" is an exclamation one would expect from a "Valley Girl",
>>> not a senior citizen in NJ?
>>
>> So Americanisms are another thing you're not up on. It is not pronounced
>> as an initialism; it is simply "oh, my God!" expressing incredulity.
>
> I have heard (young) people say "oh em gee".

That can't possibly be true! I thought I had heard it quite a few times
from neighbour's kids and some of my great-nephews and great-nieces, but
if troll hasn't heard it, I must be mistaken.

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

<e52479cd-3e7d-41ad-8cb7-99e2b7262102n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
From: gramma...@verizon.net (Peter T. Daniels)
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 by: Peter T. Daniels - Thu, 19 May 2022 13:41 UTC

On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 6:55:54 PM UTC-4, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 2:53:21 PM UTC-6, Paul Wolff wrote:
> > On Wed, 18 May 2022, at 10:29:46, CDB posted:
> > >On 5/18/2022 9:41 AM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > >> Hibou wrote:
> > >>> Hibou a écrit :
> > >
> > >>>> But it's true that I haven't answered the question about why
> > >>>> 'fine' is an adverb in this context. The exchange "How are you?"
> > >>>> "Fine" is abbreviated, and in full would be "How are you doing?"
> > >>>> "I am doing fine." 'Fine' qualifies 'am doing' and is therefore
> > >>>> an adverb. When an American replies "Good", that is a non
> > >>>> sequitur. "I am doing good" means that one is working to improve
> > >>>> the world, and does not answer the question "How are you doing?"
> > >
> > >>> So I did make a mistake, but not about 'fine'. 'Good' here is a
> > >>> noun, not an adjective.
> > >
> > >> Good grief.
> > >
> > >owls are so obsessed with categories, you'd think they were mice.
> > >
> > >I believe what Peter meant by "good grief" is that "good" is an
> > >adjective in that phrase and also in an American response to "howya
> > >doin'?": in that case, it's an adjective in adverbial use.
> >
> > It seems to me that 'how' in 'how are you?' is an interrogative adverb,
> > so any good one-word answer must have adverbial force.
> But they don't. All of those answers are adjectives. (Some of them,
> such as "well", "ill", and "poorly" (rare in my country) look like adverbs,
> but the OED classifies them as adjectives in the senses we're talking
> about, which I think is right.
>
> On the other hand, it classifies "how" as an adverb, which I think is
> wrong.

It would be a good place to look for what it thinks "adverb" means!

OED does a truly lousy job with "grapheme" -- the definition it offers
doesn't even cover the examples it gives. There's a paragraph about
it in my book.

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

<t65hsn$r5a$1@dont-email.me>

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From: lar...@invalid.ca (lar3ryca)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
Date: Thu, 19 May 2022 07:49:10 -0600
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 by: lar3ryca - Thu, 19 May 2022 13:49 UTC

On 2022-05-18 23:50, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
> Wed, 18 May 2022 13:55:25 -0700: Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com>
> scribeva:
>
>> On Wednesday, Ruud Harmsen pointed out that ...
>>> Wed, 18 May 2022 11:06:01 +0200: Athel Cornish-Bowden
>>> <acornish@imm.cnrs.fr> scribeva:
>>
>>>>>> Peter was talking about his friends. If you were talking about
>>>>>> something else, why not say so?
>>>>>
>>>>> I said so, I mentioned the Beatles song repeatedly,
>>>>
>>>> Only after you had made the silly comment about Peter's friends.
>>>
>>> I have never ever made any comment about Peter Moylan's friends. How
>>> could I? I don't know them, I don't even know him.
>>>
>>> It was a misunderstanding of the stoning mobs here, as I have
>>> explained several times already.
>>
>> No, it was YOUR misunderstanding. It was clear that Peter was talking
>> about HIS friends
>
> He was. But I wasn't. And the names might have been fictional. Or
> slightly changed.
>
>> (clear to me, even though I don't know those friends
>> and only know Peter through his postings) and the coincidence of their
>> having names which fit the lyrics.
>
> Be that as it may, the point is that I was harshly attacked for what
> in reality was a minor issue, only because I am considered an
> outsider, not part of the group. Had I been part of the incrowd, noone
> would have minded. THAT is the issue, with which I take issue.

Be very careful, or the paranoids will get you.

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

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Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
From: gramma...@verizon.net (Peter T. Daniels)
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 by: Peter T. Daniels - Thu, 19 May 2022 13:56 UTC

On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 9:53:29 PM UTC-4, Madhu wrote:
> * "Peter T. Daniels" <5cebf1ad-6f53-4d1d-a3d2-6d478d000ee9n @googlegroups.com> :
> Wrote on Wed, 18 May 2022 13:13:52 -0700 (PDT):
> > If you hadn't thoroughly scrubbed the context, you would have seen
> > that it was a reaction to the suggestion that the Right to Bear Arms
> > was invented in connection with the "Wild West."
> (For reference Hibou's post was message if <t5vjr0$1abd$1 @gioia.aioe.org> )
>
> I thought[1] the right to bear arms was a british thing, from "armorial
> bearings", and coat of arms being associated with the weaponry. The
> democratisation process in america meant that the the right to bear arms
> was not restricted to the authorised herarldry
--
> [1] fancifully

You're not terribly far off. The Second Amendment, in its entirety:

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State,
the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Unfortunately, in 1989 Scalia crossed out the first clause -- so much
for "original intent."

The Constitution makes no provision for a standing army, which in
light of experience, the Founders considered anathema. The various
states' National Guards were traditionally regarded as such "well-
regulated Militias"; their Commanders-in-Chief were the governors
of the states.

In the event of an unpopular war, when even T**** did not dare
institute a draft, National Guard units can be treated as military
forces and sent overseas -- a far cry from their usual occupations
in emergency services within their own states or sometimes lent
to neighboring states.

Although, my cousin's step-son-in-law is a full-time member of
the New York State Air National Guard, attached as a pilot to the
unit that provides transportation to US installations in Antarctica.
A couple years ago their Christmas card was the whole family (four
boys -- the oldest, nearly 10, I think, already taller than his mom)
lined up in front of (part of) his plane. He sent me a postcard from
McMurdo Sound (with a 37c stamp) and wrote on it that he was
probably carrying the mailbag it had been deposited in.

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

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From: bellemar...@gmail.com (CDB)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
Date: Thu, 19 May 2022 10:00:22 -0400
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 by: CDB - Thu, 19 May 2022 14:00 UTC

On 5/19/2022 9:19 AM, Quinn C wrote:
> * CDB:

[Veras]

>> And who can forget the beautiful Vera Hruba Ralston?

>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whslTp-Oe7g

> Not me, since I never knew her in the first place.

How about the ever-popular Mae Busch?

[more Veras]

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

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From: tonycoop...@gmail.com (Tony Cooper)
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Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
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 by: Tony Cooper - Thu, 19 May 2022 14:04 UTC

On Thu, 19 May 2022 06:56:56 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
<grammatim@verizon.net> wrote:

>On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 9:53:29 PM UTC-4, Madhu wrote:
>> * "Peter T. Daniels" <5cebf1ad-6f53-4d1d-a3d2-6d478d000ee9n @googlegroups.com> :
>> Wrote on Wed, 18 May 2022 13:13:52 -0700 (PDT):
>> > If you hadn't thoroughly scrubbed the context, you would have seen
>> > that it was a reaction to the suggestion that the Right to Bear Arms
>> > was invented in connection with the "Wild West."
>> (For reference Hibou's post was message if <t5vjr0$1abd$1 @gioia.aioe.org> )
>>
>> I thought[1] the right to bear arms was a british thing, from "armorial
>> bearings", and coat of arms being associated with the weaponry. The
>> democratisation process in america meant that the the right to bear arms
>> was not restricted to the authorised herarldry

>You're not terribly far off.

--

Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida

I read and post to this group as a form of entertainment.

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

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Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
From: gramma...@verizon.net (Peter T. Daniels)
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 by: Peter T. Daniels - Thu, 19 May 2022 14:08 UTC

On Thursday, May 19, 2022 at 12:27:43 AM UTC-4, Tony Cooper wrote:
> On Thu, 19 May 2022 07:23:36 +0530, Madhu <eno...@meer.net> wrote:
>
> >
> >* "Peter T. Daniels" <5cebf1ad-6f53-4d1d-a3d2-6d478d000ee9n @googlegroups.com> :
> >Wrote on Wed, 18 May 2022 13:13:52 -0700 (PDT):
> >
> >> If you hadn't thoroughly scrubbed the context, you would have seen
> >> that it was a reaction to the suggestion that the Right to Bear Arms
> >> was invented in connection with the "Wild West."
> >
> >(For reference Hibou's post was message if <t5vjr0$1abd$1 @gioia.aioe.org> )
> >
> >I thought[1] the right to bear arms was a british thing, from "armorial
> >bearings", and coat of arms being associated with the weaponry. The
> >democratisation process in america meant that the the right to bear arms
> >was not restricted to the authorised herarldry
>
> The phrase comes from the Second Amendment to the United States
> Constitution: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the
> security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear
> Arms, shall not be infringed."
>
> We refer to the Amendments as the Bill of Rights.

No, we refer to the first ten amendments as the Bill of Rights.

For some states, ratification of the Constitution was contingent on
the pledge to incorporate such Rights into the Constitution; for
some states, putting the document to the vote of their legislature
was contingent on it not including a bill of rights.

[Since TC has suddenly begun demanding footnotes, the source
of that summary is *Ratification: The People Debate the Constitution,
1787-1788* (Paperback – Simon & Shuster, June 7, 2011; 624 pages)
by Pauline Maier. amazon kindly informs me that I purchased it on
June 19, 2011.]

In my reply to Madhu I forgot that I was going to cite the Third
Amendment in relation to the abhorrence of a standing army:

"No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house,
without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a
manner to be prescribed by law."

(It has never been invoked.)
> --
> Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida
>
> I read and post to this group as a form of entertainment.

And misinformation.

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

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Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
From: gramma...@verizon.net (Peter T. Daniels)
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 by: Peter T. Daniels - Thu, 19 May 2022 14:11 UTC

On Thursday, May 19, 2022 at 1:45:37 AM UTC-4, Rich Ulrich wrote:
> On Thu, 19 May 2022 00:27:36 -0400, Tony Cooper
> <tonyco...@gmail.com> wrote:

> >We refer to the Amendments as the Bill of Rights.
>
> Only the first 10 Amendments are the Bill of Rights; the Constitution
> plus these amendments were approved at one go.

Not quite! See paragraph quoted below.

> They were
> written to answer objections made to the original proposed
> version. Wikipedia:
>
> Contrary to Madison's proposal that the proposed amendments be
> incorporated into the main body of the Constitution (at the relevant
> articles and sections of the document), they were proposed as
> supplemental additions (codicils) to it.[3] Articles Three through
> Twelve were ratified as additions to the Constitution on December
> 15, 1791, and became Amendments One through Ten of the Constitution.
> Article Two became part of the Constitution on May 5, 1992, as the
> Twenty-seventh Amendment. Article One is still pending before the
> states.

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

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 by: lar3ryca - Thu, 19 May 2022 14:13 UTC

On 2022-05-19 00:56, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> On 2022-05-18 20:45:24 +0000, Snidely said:
>
>> With a quizzical look, charles observed:
>>> In article <stkok8ncvo9y.dlg@mid.crommatograph.info>,
>>> Quinn C <lispamateur@crommatograph.info> wrote:
>>>> * Peter T. Daniels:
>>>
>>>>> On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 2:23:28 AM UTC-4, Athel Cornish-Bowden
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> On 2022-05-17 05:32:40 +0000, Ruud Harmsen said:
>>>>>>> Tue, 17 May 2022 10:57:09 +1000: Peter Moylan
>>>>>>> <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> scribeva:
>>>>>>>> I missed an opportunity ten years ago. I wanted to get a photo
>>>>>>>> of my friends Vera, Chook,
>>>>>>> It's Chuck.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You think you know better than Peter how his friend's name was
>>>>>> written?
>>>>>
>>>>> You couldn't figure out that he was referring to the original that
>>>>> PM was comparing his list of friend's names to?
>>>
>>>> Since that "original" wasn't quoted, it was easy to get confused
>>>> what PM
>>>> was talking about. I've heard the song long ago (although not quite 64
>>>> years), but didn't remember such details.
>>>
>>>> Looking at the lyrics now, I'm actually confused as to what those names
>>>> represent. The grandchildren? It's unclear, and apparently, it wasn't
>>>> clear to the writers.
>>>
>>>> My 64th isn't so far away, so I could start planning, but I've known
>>>> only one Vera in my life, back in high school, no Chuck and can't come
>>>> up with a memory of a Dave or David on the spot, although it feels
>>>> there
>>>> should've been at least one.
>>>
>>> I've only knwn one Vera, but it ws probably a common watime name
>>> after Vera
>>> Lyn - the singer. I have a cousin David and kow at leat 3 others.
>>
>> In AUE terms, many of us remember The Omrud.
>
> He's been here fairly recently -- within the past six months, I would
> guess.
>
October 2020

--
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percentages must be integers
all../%s/%s/%sPWDacefilm:n:osuvwNo fortunes found
bad pattern: %s
fortune: %s corrupted
fortune.cfp->read_tblfortune: no fortune found
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pattern too long for ignoring case
fortune: bad juju in is_existant/usr/local/share/games/fortunes/usr/local/share/games/fortunes/offfortune: %s: No fortune files in directory.
fortune:%s not a fortune file or directory
percentages must precede files
fortune: probabilities sum to %d%%!
fortune: no place to put residual probability (%d%%)
fortune: no probability left to put in residual files
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Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

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Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
From: gramma...@verizon.net (Peter T. Daniels)
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 by: Peter T. Daniels - Thu, 19 May 2022 14:13 UTC

On Thursday, May 19, 2022 at 1:50:43 AM UTC-4, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
> Wed, 18 May 2022 13:55:25 -0700: Snidely <snide...@gmail.com>
> scribeva:

> >Very perceptive.
>
> Had to look that up.
> https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/perceptive
> "If you describe a person or their remarks or thoughts as perceptive,
> you think that they are good at noticing or realizing things,
> especially things that are not obvious."
>
> I am. Thanks.

The Sheldon Cooper approach to sarcasm.

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

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From: ram...@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
Date: 19 May 2022 14:19:05 GMT
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 by: Stefan Ram - Thu, 19 May 2022 14:19 UTC

CDB <bellemarecd@gmail.com> writes:
>On 5/18/2022 7:31 PM, Stefan Ram wrote:
....
>>"How far y'all going?". Here "how" is directly subordinate to "far",
>>modifying it. "Far" is an adjective, so a word modifying an adjective
>>must be an adverb. The preceding two paragraphs are but one
>>possibility for a grammar. Other grammars are well possible where
>>"how" is /not/ called "adverb".
>That "far" looks like an adverb to me. It modifies "[are] going", no?

Yes. Thank you for bringing this to my attention!

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

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Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
From: gramma...@verizon.net (Peter T. Daniels)
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 by: Peter T. Daniels - Thu, 19 May 2022 14:23 UTC

On Thursday, May 19, 2022 at 1:56:11 AM UTC-4, Hibou wrote:
> Le 18/05/2022 à 14:39, Peter T. Daniels a écrit :
> > On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 2:11:06 AM UTC-4, Hibou wrote:

> >> Well, it isn't a question of learning to talk like an American, but of
> >> observing how Americans talk. Listener are going to be sensitive to
> >> where that differs from their own dialect.
> > It certainly is when it's an actor trying to be believed as an American
> > character.
>
> Is that what actors do in native (small n) American productions, made
> for the home market and then exported? Why would they do that?

I don't know what that refers to. Are you talking about British characters
in American TV shows? Lots and lots of British actors, complete with
their native dialects, live in the US (both NY and L.A., where most TV shows
are made), and they get those roles. (Not to mention those special visas
made available to big West End stars so they can reprise their roles on
Broadway.)

> It it what Americans do in quiz shows, when they are interviewed as
> experts, when they are journalists reporting from the back or front of
> beyond... - try to be believed as American characters?

I do not have the slightest idea what you are talking about.

What do people talking have to do with British actors who are not
believable as American characters?

> >> Asinine?
> > Since the underlying premise is nonsensical.
>
> It's so much easier to assert that than to prove it.

Sorry, but I know that the expressions you claimed are "Eastpondian"
are perfectly natural in "Westpondian."

> >> If you don't understand it, how do you know it's bigotry?
> > Contrasting "Britons" with "Americans" regarding something you
> > understand nothing about.
>
> Do you think so? You haven't really tested that.
>
> A wise person, faced with an assertion that seems unlikely, will ask for
> a source or evidence to back it up. If the assertion turns out to be
> well founded, one has not then committed oneself to a flat
> contradiction, which may end up looking stupid.

Did you offer any "evidence" that the expressions you claimed were
"Eastpondian" do not occur in "Westpondian"?

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

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Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
From: gramma...@verizon.net (Peter T. Daniels)
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 by: Peter T. Daniels - Thu, 19 May 2022 14:28 UTC

On Thursday, May 19, 2022 at 2:46:39 AM UTC-4, bil...@shaw.ca wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 9:19:42 PM UTC-7, Tony Cooper wrote:
> > On Wed, 18 May 2022 21:40:42 -0500, m...@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote:
> > >It's only in southern California and southern Ontario that main roads
> > >get a "the". When you get to the border you're on I-5.
>
> No, I don't think it's only in those places. I don't know in how many regions
> you have driven, but every North American region where I've driven had
> roads or highways called "the" something or another.

If they have names. I don't take "the 17" to get onto the NYS Thruway.
(That's Route 17, which has the same number as both NJ-17 and NY-17.)

> I've crossed the border between B.C. and Washington a few times. Heading
> south, I was always under the impression that I was on "the" I-5.

If you crossed from NB to Maine, you wouldn't get to "the 95."

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

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Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
From: gramma...@verizon.net (Peter T. Daniels)
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 by: Peter T. Daniels - Thu, 19 May 2022 14:31 UTC

On Thursday, May 19, 2022 at 5:45:07 AM UTC-4, Adam Funk wrote:
> On 2022-05-18, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 12:38:23 PM UTC-4, Sam Plusnet wrote:
> >> On 18-May-22 7:09, Hibou wrote:
> >> > Le 17/05/2022 à 16:47, Peter T. Daniels a écrit :
> >> In reply to Hibou

> >> >> OMG. The Bill of Rights was written in 1790.
> >> Surely "OMG" is an exclamation one would expect from a "Valley Girl",
> >> not a senior citizen in NJ?
> > So Americanisms are another thing you're not up on. It is not pronounced
> > as an initialism; it is simply "oh, my God!" expressing incredulity.
>
> I have heard (young) people say "oh em gee".

Cf. LOL (normally ell oh ell, but occasionally = "loll" -- taken as a marker
of cluelessness).

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

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From: tonycoop...@gmail.com (Tony Cooper)
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Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
Date: Thu, 19 May 2022 10:36:53 -0400
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 by: Tony Cooper - Thu, 19 May 2022 14:36 UTC

On Thu, 19 May 2022 10:04:06 -0400, Tony Cooper
<tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Thu, 19 May 2022 06:56:56 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
><grammatim@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>>On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 9:53:29 PM UTC-4, Madhu wrote:
>>> * "Peter T. Daniels" <5cebf1ad-6f53-4d1d-a3d2-6d478d000ee9n @googlegroups.com> :
>>> Wrote on Wed, 18 May 2022 13:13:52 -0700 (PDT):
>>> > If you hadn't thoroughly scrubbed the context, you would have seen
>>> > that it was a reaction to the suggestion that the Right to Bear Arms
>>> > was invented in connection with the "Wild West."
>>> (For reference Hibou's post was message if <t5vjr0$1abd$1 @gioia.aioe.org> )
>>>
>>> I thought[1] the right to bear arms was a british thing, from "armorial
>>> bearings", and coat of arms being associated with the weaponry. The
>>> democratisation process in america meant that the the right to bear arms
>>> was not restricted to the authorised herarldry
>
>>You're not terribly far off.

Posted inadvertantly before adding the British included a (limited)
right to bear arms in the "Bill of Rights 1689". Several of the
rights in that document were included in our Bill of Rights.

--

Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida

I read and post to this group as a form of entertainment.

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

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From: Silv...@noncisonopernessuno.it (Silvano)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
Date: Thu, 19 May 2022 16:38:19 +0200
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 by: Silvano - Thu, 19 May 2022 14:38 UTC

Peter Moylan hat am 19.05.2022 um 03:33 geschrieben:

> I once heard of an American tourist who got onto a bus in Italy and said
> "Una, grassína" to the driver. The town of Grassina is, I'm told,
> pronounced with first-syllable stress.

Wikipedia confirms, but even a native Italian could have made that
mistake. For small towns and villages, even we have to look for or
listen to the local people.

Usually Italian names are stressed on the last but one syllable. But
exceptions are plenty. I even concocted a round trip for foreigners. The
accents are normally not written, but I'll show them to prove my point
about exceptions.
Let's start a tour of Italy in Génova (Genua). Then we drive east
through Mòdena und Màntova to Pàdova. Then mostly southwards through
Rìmini and Pésaro down to Brìndisi and Òtranto, westwards to Nàpoli
(Naples), then by ship to Sardinia, Càgliari and Sàssari, from there
back to the starting point.

> By saying it with penultimate
> stress, as she did, she had said something like "One fat woman".

Fat (grassa) and also rather small (-ina).

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

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Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
From: gramma...@verizon.net (Peter T. Daniels)
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 by: Peter T. Daniels - Thu, 19 May 2022 14:39 UTC

On Thursday, May 19, 2022 at 8:00:55 AM UTC-4, CDB wrote:
> On 5/18/2022 4:13 PM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > Sam Plusnet wrote:
> >> Hibou wrote>>> Peter T. Daniels a écrit:
>
> >> In reply to Hibou
> >>>> OMG. The Bill of Rights was written in 1790.
>
> >> Surely "OMG" is an exclamation one would expect from a "Valley
> >> Girl", not a senior citizen in NJ?
>
> > So Americanisms are another thing you're not up on. It is not
> > pronounced as an initialism; it is simply "oh, my God!" expressing
> > incredulity.
>
> There was a supporting character in _The Cafe_ who said it as an
> intitalism, with emphasis. Some here may be pleased to learn that I
> have had no success in my search for a Youtube clip of her.

Is that kaff or kaffay?

> > If you hadn't thoroughly scrubbed the context, you would have seen
> > that it was a reaction to the suggestion that the Right to Bear Arms
> > was invented in connection with the "Wild West."
>
> I used to wish Bear Spray were legal, on camping trips. All I was Armed
> in the tent was my little hatchet.

There was a cute little (18 mo.) bear cub high up in a tree (with a
straight branchless trunk below the fork he was relaxing in) in a
suburban backyard in Passaic County most of yesterday afternoon.
He attracted a crowd of spectators, and the Authorities couldn't do
anything but wait, because if they tranqed him he'd fall down and
hurt himself. Eventually he climbed down with no difficulty, and
they shot him with a dart and carted him off to a more suitable
forest in Sussex County.

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

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Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
From: gramma...@verizon.net (Peter T. Daniels)
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 by: Peter T. Daniels - Thu, 19 May 2022 14:43 UTC

On Thursday, May 19, 2022 at 9:40:18 AM UTC-4, lar3ryca wrote:
> On 2022-05-19 03:37, Adam Funk wrote:
> > On 2022-05-18, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> >> On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 12:38:23 PM UTC-4, Sam Plusnet wrote:
> >>> On 18-May-22 7:09, Hibou wrote:
> >>>> Le 17/05/2022 à 16:47, Peter T. Daniels a écrit :
> >>> In reply to Hibou

> >>>>> OMG. The Bill of Rights was written in 1790.
> >>> Surely "OMG" is an exclamation one would expect from a "Valley Girl",
> >>> not a senior citizen in NJ?
> >> So Americanisms are another thing you're not up on. It is not pronounced
> >> as an initialism; it is simply "oh, my God!" expressing incredulity.
> > I have heard (young) people say "oh em gee".
>
> That can't possibly be true! I thought I had heard it quite a few times
> from neighbour's kids and some of my great-nephews and great-nieces, but
> if troll hasn't heard it, I must be mistaken.

How dumb can he be?

IN THAT INSTANCE, it is not pronounced as an initialism.

No, there's no lower limit to the dumbness expected of lar3.

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

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From: Silv...@noncisonopernessuno.it (Silvano)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
Date: Thu, 19 May 2022 16:44:06 +0200
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 by: Silvano - Thu, 19 May 2022 14:44 UTC

Rich Ulrich hat am 19.05.2022 um 07:45 geschrieben:
> Article One is still pending before the states.

Still pending since the 18th century? Wow! And then some people dare
complain about the slow pace before the 27 national governments reach
unanimous decisions for the whole EU.

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

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Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
From: gramma...@verizon.net (Peter T. Daniels)
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 by: Peter T. Daniels - Thu, 19 May 2022 14:57 UTC

On Thursday, May 19, 2022 at 10:44:10 AM UTC-4, Silvano wrote:
> Rich Ulrich hat am 19.05.2022 um 07:45 geschrieben:
> > Article One is still pending before the states.
> Still pending since the 18th century? Wow! And then some people dare
> complain about the slow pace before the 27 national governments reach
> unanimous decisions for the whole EU.

Here's the text. Do you think 38 states should approve it?

"After the first enumeration required by the first article of the Constitution,
there shall be one Representative for every thirty thousand, until the number
shall amount to one hundred, after which the proportion shall be so regulated
by Congress, that there shall be not less than one hundred Representatives,
nor less than one Representative for every forty thousand persons, until the
number of Representatives shall amount to two hundred; after which the
proportion shall be so regulated by Congress, that there shall not be less
than two hundred Representatives, nor more than one Representative for
every fifty thousand persons."

The number of Representatives was increased (by statute) throughout
the 19th century, but they stopped at 435 around 1920. That _small
number_ is the main reason for the problems with the Electoral College.

(Here's the one that wasn't approved until 1992:

("No law, varying the compensation for the services of the Senators and
Representatives, shall take effect, until an election of Representatives
shall have intervened."

(It ended up as

("AMENDMENT XXVII
("Originally proposed Sept. 25, 1789. Ratified May 7, 1992.

("No law, varying the compensation for the services of the Senators and
Representatives, shall take effect, until an election of Representatives
shall have intervened."

(They didn't even update the punctuation.)

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

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From: tonycoop...@gmail.com (Tony Cooper)
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Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
Date: Thu, 19 May 2022 10:57:33 -0400
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 by: Tony Cooper - Thu, 19 May 2022 14:57 UTC

On Thu, 19 May 2022 07:39:16 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
<grammatim@verizon.net> wrote:

>On Thursday, May 19, 2022 at 8:00:55 AM UTC-4, CDB wrote:
>> On 5/18/2022 4:13 PM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>> > Sam Plusnet wrote:
>> >> Hibou wrote>>> Peter T. Daniels a écrit:
>>
>> >> In reply to Hibou
>> >>>> OMG. The Bill of Rights was written in 1790.
>>
>> >> Surely "OMG" is an exclamation one would expect from a "Valley
>> >> Girl", not a senior citizen in NJ?
>>
>> > So Americanisms are another thing you're not up on. It is not
>> > pronounced as an initialism; it is simply "oh, my God!" expressing
>> > incredulity.
>>
>> There was a supporting character in _The Cafe_ who said it as an
>> intitalism, with emphasis. Some here may be pleased to learn that I
>> have had no success in my search for a Youtube clip of her.
>
>Is that kaff or kaffay?

"kaffay". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kfVCQjLYek

Set in Weston-super-Mare, and a quite watchable series, but cancelled
after Series 2 in 2013. I think it was shown by our local PBS
station in 2019 or 2020. British shows often take the slow boat to
the US.

--

Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida

I read and post to this group as a form of entertainment.

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

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From: tonycoop...@gmail.com (Tony Cooper)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
Date: Thu, 19 May 2022 11:09:17 -0400
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 by: Tony Cooper - Thu, 19 May 2022 15:09 UTC

On Thu, 19 May 2022 07:43:50 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
<grammatim@verizon.net> wrote:

>On Thursday, May 19, 2022 at 9:40:18 AM UTC-4, lar3ryca wrote:
>> On 2022-05-19 03:37, Adam Funk wrote:
>> > On 2022-05-18, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>> >> On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 12:38:23 PM UTC-4, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>> >>> On 18-May-22 7:09, Hibou wrote:
>> >>>> Le 17/05/2022 à 16:47, Peter T. Daniels a écrit :
>> >>> In reply to Hibou
>
>> >>>>> OMG. The Bill of Rights was written in 1790.
>> >>> Surely "OMG" is an exclamation one would expect from a "Valley Girl",
>> >>> not a senior citizen in NJ?
>> >> So Americanisms are another thing you're not up on. It is not pronounced
>> >> as an initialism; it is simply "oh, my God!" expressing incredulity.
>> > I have heard (young) people say "oh em gee".
>>
>> That can't possibly be true! I thought I had heard it quite a few times
>> from neighbour's kids and some of my great-nephews and great-nieces, but
>> if troll hasn't heard it, I must be mistaken.
>
>How dumb can he be?
>
>IN THAT INSTANCE, it is not pronounced as an initialism.
>
>No, there's no lower limit to the dumbness expected of lar3.

As anyone who follows a.u.e., and has not killfiled PTD, knows*, the
validation of anything and everything is based on whether or not
"Sheldon Cooper" has said it.

In https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cECAqzWJG1w
"Sheldon" says the letters, not the words.

*Even killfilers may know this if they read those mythical "snippets"
that are alleged to miscontrue or misrepresent PTD's comments.

--

Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida

I read and post to this group as a form of entertainment.

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

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From: tonycoop...@gmail.com (Tony Cooper)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
Date: Thu, 19 May 2022 11:22:18 -0400
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 by: Tony Cooper - Thu, 19 May 2022 15:22 UTC

On Thu, 19 May 2022 08:22:02 -0400, CDB <bellemarecd@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 5/19/2022 1:50 AM, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
>> Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com> scribeva:
>>> Ruud Harmsen pointed out that ...
>>>> Athel Cornish-Bowden <acornish@imm.cnrs.fr> scribeva:
>
>>>>>>> Peter was talking about his friends. If you were talking
>>>>>>> about something else, why not say so?
>
>>>>>> I said so, I mentioned the Beatles song repeatedly,
>
>>>>> Only after you had made the silly comment about Peter's
>>>>> friends.
>
>>>> I have never ever made any comment about Peter Moylan's friends.
>>>> How could I? I don't know them, I don't even know him.
>
>>>> It was a misunderstanding of the stoning mobs here, as I have
>>>> explained several times already.
>
>>> No, it was YOUR misunderstanding. It was clear that Peter was
>>> talking about HIS friends
>>
>> He was. But I wasn't. And the names might have been fictional. Or
>> slightly changed.
>
>>> (clear to me, even though I don't know those friends and only know
>>> Peter through his postings) and the coincidence of their having
>>> names which fit the lyrics.
>
>> Be that as it may, the point is that I was harshly attacked for what
>> in reality was a minor issue, only because I am considered an
>> outsider, not part of the group. Had I been part of the incrowd,
>> noone would have minded. THAT is the issue, with which I take issue.
>
>That is simply not true. Consider PTD: he has been here forever, it
>seems, and people still react negatively to his outrageousnesses. Bad
>reactions to yours will continue until you learn better, or everyone
>killfiles you.
>

I can't recall if I've ever "attacked" Ruud, but - if I have - it was
an attack on something he wrote, not an attack on a newbie.

To me, this is a classic case of someone who doesn't want to see that
the source of a problem is what that person said or did and not who
said or did it. It's the "You are against me because I'm..." fill in:
a newbie, homosexual, transgender, black, a woman, a man, a foreigner,
etc.

This perpetural whine of "I'm a victim" is getting old. That's an
"attack" based on what has been written by Ruud, not an "attack" based
on how long he's been posting here.

--

Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida

I read and post to this group as a form of entertainment.

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

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Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
From: gramma...@verizon.net (Peter T. Daniels)
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 by: Peter T. Daniels - Thu, 19 May 2022 16:13 UTC

On Thursday, May 19, 2022 at 11:09:22 AM UTC-4, Tony Cooper wrote:

> As anyone who follows a.u.e., and has not killfiled PTD, knows*, the
> validation of anything and everything is based on whether or not
> "Sheldon Cooper" has said it.
> --
> Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida
>
> I read and post to this group as a form of entertainment.

And lies.

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

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Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
From: gramma...@verizon.net (Peter T. Daniels)
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 by: Peter T. Daniels - Thu, 19 May 2022 16:17 UTC

On Thursday, May 19, 2022 at 10:57:39 AM UTC-4, Tony Cooper wrote:
> On Thu, 19 May 2022 07:39:16 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
> <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
> >On Thursday, May 19, 2022 at 8:00:55 AM UTC-4, CDB wrote:

> >> There was a supporting character in _The Cafe_ who said it as an
> >> intitalism, with emphasis. Some here may be pleased to learn that I
> >> have had no success in my search for a Youtube clip of her.
> >Is that kaff or kaffay?
>
> "kaffay". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kfVCQjLYek

Contradicting what has been said here about the usual pronunciation
of that word in BrE.
> Set in Weston-super-Mare, and a quite watchable series, but cancelled
> after Series 2 in 2013. I think it was shown by our local PBS
> station in 2019 or 2020. British shows often take the slow boat to
> the US.

We're now having *Packed to the Rafters*. Something someone
said in it last week suggested it might be Australian, but they
don't have Australian accents (for the international market?),
but Wikip says it is, 2008-13.

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