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interests / alt.usage.english / Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

SubjectAuthor
* An interlingual phonetic coincidenceBebercito
+- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceStefan Ram
+* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter T. Daniels
|`* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceBebercito
| +- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencespains...@gmail.com
| `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter T. Daniels
|  +- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceQuinn C
|  `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceBebercito
|   +- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceCDB
|   `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceRoss Clark
|    +* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceBebercito
|    |`* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter T. Daniels
|    | `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceBebercito
|    |  +- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter T. Daniels
|    |  `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceRoss Clark
|    |   +* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceStefan Ram
|    |   |`- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceRoss Clark
|    |   `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceBebercito
|    |    +- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceBebercito
|    |    `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceRoss Clark
|    |     `- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceBebercito
|    `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceSnidely
|     `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceAthel Cornish-Bowden
|      +* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceKen Blake
|      |`* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceSnidely
|      | +- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceSnidely
|      | +- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceCDB
|      | +* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter T. Daniels
|      | |`* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceAdam Funk
|      | | `- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter T. Daniels
|      | `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceQuinn C
|      |  +* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencelar3ryca
|      |  |`- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceStefan Ram
|      |  `- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencelar3ryca
|      `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceHibou
|       +* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter Moylan
|       |`* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceHibou
|       | +* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter Moylan
|       | |+* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceHibou
|       | ||+* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter Moylan
|       | |||`- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceDingbat
|       | ||`- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceKerr-Mudd, John
|       | |`* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceKen Blake
|       | | +* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencecharles
|       | | |+* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceKen Blake
|       | | ||+- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencecharles
|       | | ||`* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter Moylan
|       | | || `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceKen Blake
|       | | ||  +* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceLewis
|       | | ||  |`- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter Moylan
|       | | ||  `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceQuinn C
|       | | ||   `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceKen Blake
|       | | ||    +- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter T. Daniels
|       | | ||    `- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceKerr-Mudd, John
|       | | |+* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencelar3ryca
|       | | ||+* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceTony Cooper
|       | | |||+- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceGordonD
|       | | |||`- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter T. Daniels
|       | | ||+* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceSam Plusnet
|       | | |||`* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencelar3ryca
|       | | ||| `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceSam Plusnet
|       | | |||  `- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencelar3ryca
|       | | ||`* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePaul Wolff
|       | | || `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceJoy Beeson
|       | | ||  `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceSam Plusnet
|       | | ||   +* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceStefan Ram
|       | | ||   |`* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceRichard Heathfield
|       | | ||   | `- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceSam Plusnet
|       | | ||   `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceJanet
|       | | ||    `- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceMack A. Damia
|       | | |`- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter T. Daniels
|       | | `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePaul Wolff
|       | |  +- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceTony Cooper
|       | |  `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter Moylan
|       | |   +- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencelar3ryca
|       | |   +* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencelar3ryca
|       | |   |+* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter T. Daniels
|       | |   ||`- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter Moylan
|       | |   |`* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceSnidely
|       | |   | `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencelar3ryca
|       | |   |  +* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter Moylan
|       | |   |  |`* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceAnders D. Nygaard
|       | |   |  | `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceMark Brader
|       | |   |  |  `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceQuinn C
|       | |   |  |   `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceBebercito
|       | |   |  |    `- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceQuinn C
|       | |   |  `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceMark Brader
|       | |   |   `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceTony Cooper
|       | |   |    +* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencebil...@shaw.ca
|       | |   |    |+* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter T. Daniels
|       | |   |    ||`* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceJerry Friedman
|       | |   |    || +- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter Moylan
|       | |   |    || `- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceMadhu
|       | |   |    |`- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceKen Blake
|       | |   |    `- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceAthel Cornish-Bowden
|       | |   `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencebil...@shaw.ca
|       | |    +* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceKerr-Mudd, John
|       | |    |+* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter Moylan
|       | |    ||+* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceKen Blake
|       | |    |||`* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter Moylan
|       | |    ||| `- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceSilvano
|       | |    ||`- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceStoat
|       | |    |+- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceQuinn C
|       | |    |+- Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceSam Plusnet
|       | |    |`* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencecharles
|       | |    `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceJerry Friedman
|       | `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceTony Cooper
|       +* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidencePeter T. Daniels
|       `* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceSnidely
`* Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidenceDingbat

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Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

<59eb1cb7ebcharles@candehope.me.uk>

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From: char...@candehope.me.uk (charles)
Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Date: Thu, 19 May 2022 17:22:53 +0100
Message-ID: <59eb1cb7ebcharles@candehope.me.uk>
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 by: charles - Thu, 19 May 2022 16:22 UTC

In article <ca0adf6c-39c7-40c4-a3a5-278b06537e0an@googlegroups.com>, Peter
T. Daniels <grammatim@verizon.net> wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 5:53:21 PM UTC-4, Tony Cooper wrote:
> > On Wed, 18 May 2022 22:01:36 +0100, Paul Wolff
> > <boun...@thiswontwork.wolff.co.uk> wrote:
> > >On Wed, 18 May 2022, at 09:33:05, Kerr-Mudd, John posted:
> > >>"Peter T. Daniels" <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
> > >>> On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 4:17:18 PM UTC-4, Kerr-Mudd, John
> > >>> wrote:
> > >>> > "Peter T. Daniels" <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:

> > >>> > > > are willing to laugh at themselves, and, having read Shute's
> > >>> > > > works, perhaps some of his fondness for the place has rubbed
> > >>> > > > off.
> > >>> > > Of course. Australia has never felt an urge to throw off the
> > >>> > > yoke of British imperialism.
> > >>> > At least they haven't (so far) started out on their own
> > >>> > imperialism.
> > >[big gap]
> > >>> Someone seems not to have kept up with South Pacific current
> > >>> events.
> > >>Fair enough. We seem to focus on the Ukraine & Boris, though Strange
> > >>Going Ons in the US intrude,
> > >A recent puzzle was why the BBC promoted to its No. 1 news item some
> > >weeks ago a leaked draft judgement of the American Supreme Court on
> > >the matter of whether abortion was covered by their constitution. I
> > >mean - as a British news headline, that's got everything wrong with
> > >it. Foreign, underhand provenance, irrelevant to British interests.
> > >Would they report a leaked draft ruling of Iranian mullahs on the
> > >same subject in the Iranian constitution? No, of course they
> > >wouldn't.
> > >>I think mostly because Brit reporters would like a job in the US.
> > >>
> > >You old cynic.
> >
> > There is another way of looking at this. Possibly the BBC is tired of
> > stories about the "Partygate" leaks and wants to inform the British
> > public that there are leaks in Washington, too, and about subjects
> > that not nearly so much fun.

> And maybe a teensy bit more important.

> Would it be news if Boris's mistress had an abortion?

> > https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/feb/22/leak-confirms-partygate-questionnaire-includes-police-caution

has he got a vurent mistrees? Carrie should be told.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

<i3sc8hlj7o87e54i2h36ikks1fki9uq6hi@4ax.com>

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From: tonycoop...@gmail.com (Tony Cooper)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
Date: Thu, 19 May 2022 13:00:18 -0400
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 by: Tony Cooper - Thu, 19 May 2022 17:00 UTC

On Thu, 19 May 2022 09:17:03 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
<grammatim@verizon.net> wrote:

>On Thursday, May 19, 2022 at 10:57:39 AM UTC-4, Tony Cooper wrote:
>> On Thu, 19 May 2022 07:39:16 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
>> <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> >On Thursday, May 19, 2022 at 8:00:55 AM UTC-4, CDB wrote:
>
>> >> There was a supporting character in _The Cafe_ who said it as an
>> >> intitalism, with emphasis. Some here may be pleased to learn that I
>> >> have had no success in my search for a Youtube clip of her.
>> >Is that kaff or kaffay?
>>
>> "kaffay". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kfVCQjLYek
>
>Contradicting what has been said here about the usual pronunciation
>of that word in BrE.

Well, it doesn't as far as I know. You'd have to ask a Brit, but my
understanding is that a "kaff" is a particular type of eating place
that is associated with a down-market establishment. A "kaffay" is
more upmarket and appeals to a better crowd.

The cafe in the television series is not particularly upmarket, but
it's a neighborhood gathering spot in a seaside setting. It's quite
nice with seating than wouldn't be associated with a "kaff".

The actual building used in filming the series was purpose-built for
the show. When the show was cancelled, it was disassembled and put in
storage with the intent of being re-assembled later as both a cafe and
a tourist destination. Nothing has been done, though.

I wouldn't be surprised if a Brit in the series was to have said
something about "the kaff", but that wouldn't be because of the "usual
pronunciation".

This thread needs input from a genuine Brit.

>
>> Set in Weston-super-Mare, and a quite watchable series, but cancelled
>> after Series 2 in 2013. I think it was shown by our local PBS
>> station in 2019 or 2020. British shows often take the slow boat to
>> the US.
>
>We're now having *Packed to the Rafters*. Something someone
>said in it last week suggested it might be Australian, but they
>don't have Australian accents (for the international market?),
>but Wikip says it is, 2008-13.

It is Australian. We haven't watched it, but I've seen advertisements
for "Back to the Rafters", a 2021 reincarnation of that show.

There have been several Australian shows that we've watched on
Netflix, Acorn, or Prime. Maybe it's because we've watched several,
but I no longer notice much of an Aussie accent overall. (Seven is
always "Sivin", and there are other words that jump out as Aussie, but
they just blend in)

"Mystery Road" and "Rake" are highly recommended.

Some decidedly Australian accents in the movie, "Muriel's Wedding" if
you go back that far. (1994)
--

Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida

I read and post to this group as a form of entertainment.

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

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Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
From: jerry_fr...@yahoo.com (Jerry Friedman)
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 by: Jerry Friedman - Thu, 19 May 2022 17:10 UTC

On Thursday, May 19, 2022 at 8:28:31 AM UTC-6, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> On Thursday, May 19, 2022 at 2:46:39 AM UTC-4, bil...@shaw.ca wrote:
> > On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 9:19:42 PM UTC-7, Tony Cooper wrote:
> > > On Wed, 18 May 2022 21:40:42 -0500, m...@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote:
>
> > > >It's only in southern California and southern Ontario that main roads
> > > >get a "the". When you get to the border you're on I-5.
> >
> > No, I don't think it's only in those places. I don't know in how many regions
> > you have driven, but every North American region where I've driven had
> > roads or highways called "the" something or another.
>
> If they have names. I don't take "the 17" to get onto the NYS Thruway.
> (That's Route 17, which has the same number as both NJ-17 and NY-17.)
....

That's also my experience in Ohio, Illinois, and New Mexico. To visit my
father, I used to take (I-)271 to (I-)90, or the Shoreway. Here in New Mexico,
I can take 84/285, the Chama Highway, or 68, the low road to Taos.

--
Jerry Friedman

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

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Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
From: beberc...@aol.com (Bebercito)
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 by: Bebercito - Thu, 19 May 2022 18:02 UTC

Le jeudi 19 mai 2022 à 18:17:05 UTC+2, Peter T. Daniels a écrit :
> On Thursday, May 19, 2022 at 10:57:39 AM UTC-4, Tony Cooper wrote:
> > On Thu, 19 May 2022 07:39:16 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
> > <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
> > >On Thursday, May 19, 2022 at 8:00:55 AM UTC-4, CDB wrote:
>
> > >> There was a supporting character in _The Cafe_ who said it as an
> > >> intitalism, with emphasis. Some here may be pleased to learn that I
> > >> have had no success in my search for a Youtube clip of her.
> > >Is that kaff or kaffay?
> >
> > "kaffay". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kfVCQjLYek
> Contradicting what has been said here about the usual pronunciation
> of that word in BrE.

You seem to be confused. "kaff" is the pronunciation of "caf" (an
existing colloquial abbreviation), never of café". See e.g.

---
Caf definition

(...)

(colloquial) Café

https://www.yourdictionary.com/caf
---

> > Set in Weston-super-Mare, and a quite watchable series, but cancelled
> > after Series 2 in 2013. I think it was shown by our local PBS
> > station in 2019 or 2020. British shows often take the slow boat to
> > the US.
> We're now having *Packed to the Rafters*. Something someone
> said in it last week suggested it might be Australian, but they
> don't have Australian accents (for the international market?),
> but Wikip says it is, 2008-13.

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

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From: a24...@ducksburg.com (Adam Funk)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
Date: Thu, 19 May 2022 19:04:47 +0100
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 by: Adam Funk - Thu, 19 May 2022 18:04 UTC

On 2022-05-19, Tony Cooper wrote:

> On Thu, 19 May 2022 09:17:03 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
><grammatim@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>>On Thursday, May 19, 2022 at 10:57:39 AM UTC-4, Tony Cooper wrote:
>>> On Thu, 19 May 2022 07:39:16 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
>>> <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>> >On Thursday, May 19, 2022 at 8:00:55 AM UTC-4, CDB wrote:
>>
>>> >> There was a supporting character in _The Cafe_ who said it as an
>>> >> intitalism, with emphasis. Some here may be pleased to learn that I
>>> >> have had no success in my search for a Youtube clip of her.
>>> >Is that kaff or kaffay?
>>>
>>> "kaffay". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kfVCQjLYek
>>
>>Contradicting what has been said here about the usual pronunciation
>>of that word in BrE.
>
> Well, it doesn't as far as I know. You'd have to ask a Brit, but my
> understanding is that a "kaff" is a particular type of eating place
> that is associated with a down-market establishment. A "kaffay" is
> more upmarket and appeals to a better crowd.

Yes. And a "transport caff" (not sure if there's a standard spelling)
is roughly equivalent to a truck stop.

> The cafe in the television series is not particularly upmarket, but
> it's a neighborhood gathering spot in a seaside setting. It's quite
> nice with seating than wouldn't be associated with a "kaff".
>
> The actual building used in filming the series was purpose-built for
> the show. When the show was cancelled, it was disassembled and put in
> storage with the intent of being re-assembled later as both a cafe and
> a tourist destination. Nothing has been done, though.
>
> I wouldn't be surprised if a Brit in the series was to have said
> something about "the kaff", but that wouldn't be because of the "usual
> pronunciation".
>
> This thread needs input from a genuine Brit.
>
>>
>>> Set in Weston-super-Mare, and a quite watchable series, but cancelled
>>> after Series 2 in 2013. I think it was shown by our local PBS
>>> station in 2019 or 2020. British shows often take the slow boat to
>>> the US.
>>
>>We're now having *Packed to the Rafters*. Something someone
>>said in it last week suggested it might be Australian, but they
>>don't have Australian accents (for the international market?),
>>but Wikip says it is, 2008-13.
>
> It is Australian. We haven't watched it, but I've seen advertisements
> for "Back to the Rafters", a 2021 reincarnation of that show.
>
> There have been several Australian shows that we've watched on
> Netflix, Acorn, or Prime. Maybe it's because we've watched several,
> but I no longer notice much of an Aussie accent overall. (Seven is
> always "Sivin", and there are other words that jump out as Aussie, but
> they just blend in)
>
> "Mystery Road" and "Rake" are highly recommended.
>
> Some decidedly Australian accents in the movie, "Muriel's Wedding" if
> you go back that far. (1994)

--
Java is kind of like kindergarten. There are lots of rules you have to
remember. If you don't follow them, the compiler makes you sit in the
corner until you do. ---Don Raab

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

<51eilixmj2.ln2@news.ducksburg.com>

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From: a24...@ducksburg.com (Adam Funk)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
Date: Thu, 19 May 2022 19:14:29 +0100
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 by: Adam Funk - Thu, 19 May 2022 18:14 UTC

On 2022-05-19, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:

> On Thu, 19 May 2022 10:39:18 +0100
> Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2022-05-18, charles wrote:
>>
>> > In article <20220518094017.3e73c545968f024af53dfba6@127.0.0.1>, "Kerr-Mudd,
>> > John" <admin@127.0.0.1> wrote:
> []
>> >> In Germany 'Ausfahrt' seems a very popular village, it's signposted from
>> >> all major roads.
>> >
>> > probably twinned with "Loose Chippings" in the UK
>>
>> Totally plausible, probably near Nether Chippings & Upper Chippings.
>>
>>
>>
> Pagwell has quite a lot of villages:
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professor_Branestawm

Ha, yes. I haven't read the books but I saw a TV adaptation a few
years ago.

--
Mandrake, have you never wondered why I drink only distilled water,
or rain water, and only pure grain alcohol? ---General Ripper

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

<s2eilixmj2.ln2@news.ducksburg.com>

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From: a24...@ducksburg.com (Adam Funk)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
Date: Thu, 19 May 2022 19:15:24 +0100
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 by: Adam Funk - Thu, 19 May 2022 18:15 UTC

On 2022-05-19, lar3ryca wrote:

>>> In AUE terms, many of us remember The Omrud.
>>
>> He's been here fairly recently -- within the past six months, I would
>> guess.
>>
>
> October 2020
>
>
> --
> ELF??????????>????�??????@???????Pa??????????@?8?
?@?????????@???????@???????@???????�??????�???????????????????8??????8??????8?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????�V??????�V????????
???????????p[??????p[ ?????p[ ?????�??????�%????????
???????????�[??????�[ ?????�[
????????????????????????????????T??????T??????T?????

I think your sig generator missed a null terminator?

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

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From: a24...@ducksburg.com (Adam Funk)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
Date: Thu, 19 May 2022 19:17:01 +0100
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 by: Adam Funk - Thu, 19 May 2022 18:17 UTC

On 2022-05-19, Peter T. Daniels wrote:

> On Thursday, May 19, 2022 at 10:44:10 AM UTC-4, Silvano wrote:
>> Rich Ulrich hat am 19.05.2022 um 07:45 geschrieben:
>> > Article One is still pending before the states.
>> Still pending since the 18th century? Wow! And then some people dare
>> complain about the slow pace before the 27 national governments reach
>> unanimous decisions for the whole EU.
>
> Here's the text. Do you think 38 states should approve it?
>
> "After the first enumeration required by the first article of the Constitution,
> there shall be one Representative for every thirty thousand, until the number
> shall amount to one hundred, after which the proportion shall be so regulated
> by Congress, that there shall be not less than one hundred Representatives,
> nor less than one Representative for every forty thousand persons, until the
> number of Representatives shall amount to two hundred; after which the
> proportion shall be so regulated by Congress, that there shall not be less
> than two hundred Representatives, nor more than one Representative for
> every fifty thousand persons."
>
> The number of Representatives was increased (by statute) throughout
> the 19th century, but they stopped at 435 around 1920. That _small
> number_ is the main reason for the problems with the Electoral College.

Just curious --- what's the current representative to population ratio?

> (Here's the one that wasn't approved until 1992:
>
> ("No law, varying the compensation for the services of the Senators and
> Representatives, shall take effect, until an election of Representatives
> shall have intervened."
>
> (It ended up as
>
> ("AMENDMENT XXVII
> ("Originally proposed Sept. 25, 1789. Ratified May 7, 1992.
>
> ("No law, varying the compensation for the services of the Senators and
> Representatives, shall take effect, until an election of Representatives
> shall have intervened."
>
> (They didn't even update the punctuation.)

Wouldn't changing it have necessitated starting the ratification
process over again?

--
If you wear a warmer sporran
you can keep the foe at bay

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

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Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
From: gramma...@verizon.net (Peter T. Daniels)
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 by: Peter T. Daniels - Thu, 19 May 2022 18:49 UTC

On Thursday, May 19, 2022 at 2:02:16 PM UTC-4, Bebercito wrote:
> Le jeudi 19 mai 2022 à 18:17:05 UTC+2, Peter T. Daniels a écrit :
> > On Thursday, May 19, 2022 at 10:57:39 AM UTC-4, Tony Cooper wrote:
> > > On Thu, 19 May 2022 07:39:16 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
> > > <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
> > > >On Thursday, May 19, 2022 at 8:00:55 AM UTC-4, CDB wrote:
> > > >> There was a supporting character in _The Cafe_ who said it as an
> > > >> intitalism, with emphasis. Some here may be pleased to learn that I
> > > >> have had no success in my search for a Youtube clip of her.
> > > >Is that kaff or kaffay?
> > > "kaffay". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kfVCQjLYek
> > Contradicting what has been said here about the usual pronunciation
> > of that word in BrE.
>
> You seem to be confused. "kaff" is the pronunciation of "caf" (an
> existing colloquial abbreviation), never of café". See e.g.

Where do you see an acute accent in anything CDB, I, or Tony wrote,
or in the 30-second (not 32nd) promo Tony linked to?

How many times do you have to be told that English is not French?
> ---
> Caf definition
>
> (...)
>
> (colloquial) Café
>
> https://www.yourdictionary.com/caf
> ---
> > > Set in Weston-super-Mare, and a quite watchable series, but cancelled
> > > after Series 2 in 2013. I think it was shown by our local PBS
> > > station in 2019 or 2020. British shows often take the slow boat to
> > > the US.

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

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From: tonycoop...@gmail.com (Tony Cooper)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
Date: Thu, 19 May 2022 14:55:26 -0400
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 by: Tony Cooper - Thu, 19 May 2022 18:55 UTC

On Thu, 19 May 2022 11:02:12 -0700 (PDT), Bebercito
<bebercito@aol.com> wrote:

>Le jeudi 19 mai 2022 à 18:17:05 UTC+2, Peter T. Daniels a écrit :
>> On Thursday, May 19, 2022 at 10:57:39 AM UTC-4, Tony Cooper wrote:
>> > On Thu, 19 May 2022 07:39:16 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
>> > <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> > >On Thursday, May 19, 2022 at 8:00:55 AM UTC-4, CDB wrote:
>>
>> > >> There was a supporting character in _The Cafe_ who said it as an
>> > >> intitalism, with emphasis. Some here may be pleased to learn that I
>> > >> have had no success in my search for a Youtube clip of her.
>> > >Is that kaff or kaffay?
>> >
>> > "kaffay". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kfVCQjLYek
>> Contradicting what has been said here about the usual pronunciation
>> of that word in BrE.
>
>You seem to be confused. "kaff" is the pronunciation of "caf" (an
>existing colloquial abbreviation), never of café". See e.g.
>
>---
>Caf definition
>
>(...)
>
>(colloquial) Café
>
>https://www.yourdictionary.com/caf

I think that's understood by both PTD and by me. Those spellings
merely represent how the words are pronounced. In text, the normal
spelling of cafe/café would be used. If "caf" is represented in text,
I'd do it as "caff", though.

>---
>
>> > Set in Weston-super-Mare, and a quite watchable series, but cancelled
>> > after Series 2 in 2013. I think it was shown by our local PBS
>> > station in 2019 or 2020. British shows often take the slow boat to
>> > the US.
>> We're now having *Packed to the Rafters*. Something someone
>> said in it last week suggested it might be Australian, but they
>> don't have Australian accents (for the international market?),
>> but Wikip says it is, 2008-13.
--

Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida

I read and post to this group as a form of entertainment.

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

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From: tonycoop...@gmail.com (Tony Cooper)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
Date: Thu, 19 May 2022 15:01:24 -0400
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 by: Tony Cooper - Thu, 19 May 2022 19:01 UTC

On Thu, 19 May 2022 19:04:47 +0100, Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com>
wrote:

>On 2022-05-19, Tony Cooper wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 19 May 2022 09:17:03 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
>><grammatim@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>>>On Thursday, May 19, 2022 at 10:57:39 AM UTC-4, Tony Cooper wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 19 May 2022 07:39:16 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
>>>> <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>>> >On Thursday, May 19, 2022 at 8:00:55 AM UTC-4, CDB wrote:
>>>
>>>> >> There was a supporting character in _The Cafe_ who said it as an
>>>> >> intitalism, with emphasis. Some here may be pleased to learn that I
>>>> >> have had no success in my search for a Youtube clip of her.
>>>> >Is that kaff or kaffay?
>>>>
>>>> "kaffay". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kfVCQjLYek
>>>
>>>Contradicting what has been said here about the usual pronunciation
>>>of that word in BrE.
>>
>> Well, it doesn't as far as I know. You'd have to ask a Brit, but my
>> understanding is that a "kaff" is a particular type of eating place
>> that is associated with a down-market establishment. A "kaffay" is
>> more upmarket and appeals to a better crowd.
>
>Yes. And a "transport caff" (not sure if there's a standard spelling)
>is roughly equivalent to a truck stop.
>

Thank you for "transport caff". That term eluded me, but it does seem
associated with what we would call "truck stops"; places where
long-haul truckers stop.

However, our "truck stops" are frequently very large facilities. I
was in one recently with available showers, TV rooms, laundry
facilities, and an acre of aisles of merchandise for sale.

>
>> The cafe in the television series is not particularly upmarket, but
>> it's a neighborhood gathering spot in a seaside setting. It's quite
>> nice with seating than wouldn't be associated with a "kaff".
>>
>> The actual building used in filming the series was purpose-built for
>> the show. When the show was cancelled, it was disassembled and put in
>> storage with the intent of being re-assembled later as both a cafe and
>> a tourist destination. Nothing has been done, though.
>>
>> I wouldn't be surprised if a Brit in the series was to have said
>> something about "the kaff", but that wouldn't be because of the "usual
>> pronunciation".
>>
>> This thread needs input from a genuine Brit.
>>
>>>
>>>> Set in Weston-super-Mare, and a quite watchable series, but cancelled
>>>> after Series 2 in 2013. I think it was shown by our local PBS
>>>> station in 2019 or 2020. British shows often take the slow boat to
>>>> the US.
>>>
>>>We're now having *Packed to the Rafters*. Something someone
>>>said in it last week suggested it might be Australian, but they
>>>don't have Australian accents (for the international market?),
>>>but Wikip says it is, 2008-13.
>>
>> It is Australian. We haven't watched it, but I've seen advertisements
>> for "Back to the Rafters", a 2021 reincarnation of that show.
>>
>> There have been several Australian shows that we've watched on
>> Netflix, Acorn, or Prime. Maybe it's because we've watched several,
>> but I no longer notice much of an Aussie accent overall. (Seven is
>> always "Sivin", and there are other words that jump out as Aussie, but
>> they just blend in)
>>
>> "Mystery Road" and "Rake" are highly recommended.
>>
>> Some decidedly Australian accents in the movie, "Muriel's Wedding" if
>> you go back that far. (1994)
--

Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida

I read and post to this group as a form of entertainment.

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

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From: rjh...@cpax.org.uk (Richard Heathfield)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
Date: Thu, 19 May 2022 20:13:25 +0100
Organization: Fix this later
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 by: Richard Heathfield - Thu, 19 May 2022 19:13 UTC

On 19/05/2022 8:01 pm, Tony Cooper wrote:
> On Thu, 19 May 2022 19:04:47 +0100, Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 2022-05-19, Tony Cooper wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 19 May 2022 09:17:03 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
>>> <grammatim@verizon.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Thursday, May 19, 2022 at 10:57:39 AM UTC-4, Tony Cooper wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, 19 May 2022 07:39:16 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
>>>>> <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>>> On Thursday, May 19, 2022 at 8:00:55 AM UTC-4, CDB wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>> There was a supporting character in _The Cafe_ who said it as an
>>>>>>> intitalism, with emphasis. Some here may be pleased to learn that I
>>>>>>> have had no success in my search for a Youtube clip of her.
>>>>>> Is that kaff or kaffay?
>>>>>
>>>>> "kaffay". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kfVCQjLYek
>>>>
>>>> Contradicting what has been said here about the usual pronunciation
>>>> of that word in BrE.
>>>
>>> Well, it doesn't as far as I know. You'd have to ask a Brit, but my
>>> understanding is that a "kaff" is a particular type of eating place
>>> that is associated with a down-market establishment. A "kaffay" is
>>> more upmarket and appeals to a better crowd.
>>
>> Yes. And a "transport caff" (not sure if there's a standard spelling)
>> is roughly equivalent to a truck stop.
>>
>
> Thank you for "transport caff". That term eluded me, but it does seem
> associated with what we would call "truck stops"; places where
> long-haul truckers stop.
>
> However, our "truck stops" are frequently very large facilities. I
> was in one recently with available showers, TV rooms, laundry
> facilities, and an acre of aisles of merchandise for sale.

We have such places, but we don't call them "transport cafes".
They are normally on motorways and are known as "motorway
services". Generally run as part of a chain: Moto, RoadChef,
Welcome Break, Granada, etc. Expensive, with plastic food.
Transport "caffs" are typically independent, cheap and cheerful
affairs with rather more tempting (but still cholesterol-laden) fare.

--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

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Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
From: gramma...@verizon.net (Peter T. Daniels)
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 by: Peter T. Daniels - Thu, 19 May 2022 19:16 UTC

On Thursday, May 19, 2022 at 2:30:08 PM UTC-4, Adam Funk wrote:
> On 2022-05-19, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>
> > On Thursday, May 19, 2022 at 10:44:10 AM UTC-4, Silvano wrote:
> >> Rich Ulrich hat am 19.05.2022 um 07:45 geschrieben:
> >> > Article One is still pending before the states.
> >> Still pending since the 18th century? Wow! And then some people dare
> >> complain about the slow pace before the 27 national governments reach
> >> unanimous decisions for the whole EU.
> >
> > Here's the text. Do you think 38 states should approve it?
> >
> > "After the first enumeration required by the first article of the Constitution,
> > there shall be one Representative for every thirty thousand, until the number
> > shall amount to one hundred, after which the proportion shall be so regulated
> > by Congress, that there shall be not less than one hundred Representatives,
> > nor less than one Representative for every forty thousand persons, until the
> > number of Representatives shall amount to two hundred; after which the
> > proportion shall be so regulated by Congress, that there shall not be less
> > than two hundred Representatives, nor more than one Representative for
> > every fifty thousand persons."
> >
> > The number of Representatives was increased (by statute) throughout
> > the 19th century, but they stopped at 435 around 1920. That _small
> > number_ is the main reason for the problems with the Electoral College.
>
> Just curious --- what's the current representative to population ratio?

Google found that census.gov gives this (but I couldn't find it starting
from the census.gov front page):

The 2020 Census shows that the resident population of the United States,
including the 50 states and the District of Columbia, was 331,449,281 as of
April 1, 2020, an increase of 7.4% since the 2010 Census.

https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2021/04/2020-census-data-release.html

So: dividing the above by 435 gives 761,952 people per Congressional
District, but you can't go by that because of the small states that get 1
Representative no matter what -- there are 6 of those (west to east,
AK WY ND SD DE VT). Someone might do that sum (as they say in BrE)
for each of the 50 states and 6 territories with delegates to see which
ones have the fewest constituents per Rep. (PR definitely loses.)

A bunch of nice tables and charts here, plus the algorithms for doing it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_congressional_apportionment

This morning the Census Bureau announced which states they think were
undercounted and which overcounted.

> > (Here's the one that wasn't approved until 1992:
> >
> > ("No law, varying the compensation for the services of the Senators and
> > Representatives, shall take effect, until an election of Representatives
> > shall have intervened."
> >
> > (It ended up as
> >
> > ("AMENDMENT XXVII
> > ("Originally proposed Sept. 25, 1789. Ratified May 7, 1992.
> >
> > ("No law, varying the compensation for the services of the Senators and
> > Representatives, shall take effect, until an election of Representatives
> > shall have intervened."
> >
> > (They didn't even update the punctuation.)
>
> Wouldn't changing it have necessitated starting the ratification
> process over again?

Well the spelling of the KJV was updated some time in the 18th century.

Ruud could note "shall have intervened"; now we'd say "intervenes."

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

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From: Ken...@invalid.news.com (Ken Blake)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
Date: Thu, 19 May 2022 12:22:09 -0700
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 by: Ken Blake - Thu, 19 May 2022 19:22 UTC

On Wed, 18 May 2022 23:46:36 -0700 (PDT), "bil...@shaw.ca"
<billvan@shaw.ca> wrote:

>On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 9:19:42 PM UTC-7, Tony Cooper wrote:
>> On Wed, 18 May 2022 21:40:42 -0500, m...@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote:
>>
>> >It's only in southern California and southern Ontario that main roads
>> >get a "the". When you get to the border you're on I-5.
>
>No, I don't think it's only in those places. I don't know in how many regions
>you have driven, but every North American region where I've driven had
>roads or highways called "the" something or another.
>
>I've crossed the border between B.C. and Washington a few times. Heading
>south, I was always under the impression that I was on "the" I-5.

Personally, I would say "I-5," not "the I-5," but I've heard others
use "the" with Interstate numbers.

I would use "the" with highways with names, not those with numbers.
For example, when I lived in NY, I would say "I was on the thruway."

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

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Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
Date: Thu, 19 May 2022 12:31:22 -0700
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 by: Ken Blake - Thu, 19 May 2022 19:31 UTC

On Thu, 19 May 2022 00:27:36 -0400, Tony Cooper
<tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Thu, 19 May 2022 07:23:36 +0530, Madhu <enometh@meer.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>* "Peter T. Daniels" <5cebf1ad-6f53-4d1d-a3d2-6d478d000ee9n @googlegroups.com> :
>>Wrote on Wed, 18 May 2022 13:13:52 -0700 (PDT):
>>
>>> If you hadn't thoroughly scrubbed the context, you would have seen
>>> that it was a reaction to the suggestion that the Right to Bear Arms
>>> was invented in connection with the "Wild West."
>>
>>(For reference Hibou's post was message if <t5vjr0$1abd$1 @gioia.aioe.org> )
>>
>>I thought[1] the right to bear arms was a british thing, from "armorial
>>bearings", and coat of arms being associated with the weaponry. The
>>democratisation process in america meant that the the right to bear arms
>>was not restricted to the authorised herarldry
>
>The phrase comes from the Second Amendment to the United States
>Constitution: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the
>security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear
>Arms, shall not be infringed."
>
>We refer to the Amendments as the Bill of Rights.

I'm sure you know it, but for anyone here doesn't, it's only the
*first ten* amendments that are known as "the bill of Rights."

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

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From: Ken...@invalid.news.com (Ken Blake)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
Date: Thu, 19 May 2022 12:33:50 -0700
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 by: Ken Blake - Thu, 19 May 2022 19:33 UTC

On Thu, 19 May 2022 10:37:11 +0100, Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com>
wrote:

>On 2022-05-18, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>
>> On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 12:38:23 PM UTC-4, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>>> On 18-May-22 7:09, Hibou wrote:
>>> > Le 17/05/2022 à 16:47, Peter T. Daniels a écrit :
>>> In reply to Hibou
>>
>>> >> OMG. The Bill of Rights was written in 1790.
>>>
>>> Surely "OMG" is an exclamation one would expect from a "Valley Girl",
>>> not a senior citizen in NJ?
>>
>> So Americanisms are another thing you're not up on. It is not pronounced
>> as an initialism; it is simply "oh, my God!" expressing incredulity.
>
>I have heard (young) people say "oh em gee".

Interesting. I've never heard that. To me, it's a common written
abbreviation, but it's never spoken.

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

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From: Ken...@invalid.news.com (Ken Blake)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
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 by: Ken Blake - Thu, 19 May 2022 19:39 UTC

On Thu, 19 May 2022 11:36:17 +0100, Hibou <h.i@b.ou> wrote:

>Le 19/05/2022 à 10:37, Adam Funk a écrit :
>> On 2022-05-18, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>> [...]
>>>
>>>>>> OMG. The Bill of Rights was written in 1790.
>>>>
>>>> Surely "OMG" is an exclamation one would expect from a "Valley Girl",
>>>> not a senior citizen in NJ?
>>>
>>> So Americanisms are another thing you're not up on. It is not pronounced
>>> as an initialism; it is simply "oh, my God!" expressing incredulity.
>>
>> I have heard (young) people say "oh em gee".
>
>The response from unbelievers to "OMG" could be "OYG?" (Oh your god?),
>to be pronounced as one pleases. I suggest as a word: Oyg.

It's just a common expression indicating astonishment. It doesn't
suggest that a person who says it is necessarily a believer. I'm an
unbeliever and I've been known to say it from time to time, and I've
known other unbelievers who also say it.

It's like "God damn it," another common expression often used by
unbelievers (including me).

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

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From: news2012...@gmail.com (Anders D. Nygaard)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
Date: Thu, 19 May 2022 21:41:48 +0200
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 by: Anders D. Nygaard - Thu, 19 May 2022 19:41 UTC

Den 19-05-2022 kl. 00:23 skrev Peter Moylan:
>
> I used to have a "how to find me" page on my web site. Here are the
> instructions for getting to my house from the city centre.
>
> Head west on King Street, and keep going without any turns. (Just to
> keep you on your toes, the road keeps changing its name: King St, Parry
> St, Donald St, Griffiths Rd, Newcastle Rd.) A block and a half past
> Croudace Street, turn left into my driveway.
>
> That was back when I lived on an arterial road. (Something I won't
> willingly repeat in the future.) To get to my present house, you have to
> make five left turns. (And no right turns: the route sort of spirals in
> to my home.)

I may have mentioned this before:
In our last move, we could leave our old house, drive around 14 km while
turning right nine times, and park the car just outside our new home.

/Anders, Denmark

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

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From: lar...@invalid.ca (lar3ryca)
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Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
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 by: lar3ryca - Thu, 19 May 2022 19:44 UTC

On 2022-05-19 12:15, Adam Funk wrote:
> On 2022-05-19, lar3ryca wrote:
>
>>>> In AUE terms, many of us remember The Omrud.
>>>
>>> He's been here fairly recently -- within the past six months, I would
>>> guess.
>>>
>>
>> October 2020
>>
>>
>> --
>> ELF??????????>????�??????@???????Pa??????????@?8?
> ?@?????????@???????@???????@???????�??????�???????????????????8??????8??????8?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????�V??????�V????????
> ???????????p[??????p[ ?????p[ ?????�??????�%????????
> ???????????�[??????�[ ?????�[
> ????????????????????????????????T??????T??????T?????
>
> I think your sig generator missed a null terminator?

Apologies to all.

I was testing a random sig generator. I thought I had deleted the file
that came from, but apparently I hadn't

Question for anyone using Thunderbird for news. Do you know if the
Signature Switch addon will do text-only random sigs?

From what I could see, it won't, but I could be wrong.

--
Puritanism: The haunting fear that someone somewhere may be happy.

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 by: Sam Plusnet - Thu, 19 May 2022 19:49 UTC

On 18-May-22 23:29, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 19/05/22 02:20, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>> On 18-May-22 11:50, Adam Funk wrote:
>>> On 2022-05-17, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 17-May-22 11:42, Adam Funk wrote:
>>>>> "Oxter" is used in Yorkshire & Derbyshire (at least) as well.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I lived in Derbyshire (near the border with Yorkshire) for my first
>>>> couple of decades, and never came across it.
>>>
>>> I've only heard it occasionally --- the subject doesn't come up in a
>>> lot of conversations.
>>
>> It's a long time since I was there for longer than the duration of a
>> funeral, so anything after the 1960s would escape my ears.
>>
>> Conversation at/after funerals doesn't tend to revolve around armpits,
>> in my experience.
>
> It should, considering how the coffin is carried.
>
On a foldable trolley, in all the funerals I've attended in recent years.

A newer trend is for a company to collect the body from... wherever it
happens to be, cremate it, and (if required) return the ashes to the
next of kin who way do with them as they wish.
If you don't want a funeral service, you could hold a Wake in a pub with
the urn propped up on the bar.

--
Sam Plusnet

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

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 by: Sam Plusnet - Thu, 19 May 2022 19:56 UTC

On 19-May-22 1:42, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 19/05/22 02:31, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>> On 18-May-22 1:59, Tony Cooper wrote:
>>> On Wed, 18 May 2022 01:33:33 +0100, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com>
>>> wrote:
>> (Of When I'm sixtyfour.)
>>
>>>> I don't know where "Chuck" came from.  It isn't a diminutive form
>>>> of Charles that I've ever heard in BrE.
>>>
>>> Some here will remember Charles Riggs.  While he lived in Ireland,
>>> he was an American.  He had been living in Ireland when I first
>>> encountered him here in a.u.e.
>>>
>>> He posted as "Chuck Riggs" and at other times as "Charles Riggs".
>>>
>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/alt.usage.english@googlegroups.com/msg00070.html
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In this thread, he posts as "Chuck", but discusses "chuckless
>>> Ireland".
>>>
>>> https://alt.usage.english.narkive.com/r9E9jpWv/literary-bulletin#post2
>>
>>>
>> Fair enough, but is any evidence that Paul McCartney knew of aue when
>> he wrote the song - in 1967?
>
> His choosing that name continues to be a mystery. I would have guessed
> that Chuck is a name that one almost never encounters in England.
>
By 1967 they'd visited the US at least a couple of times. If they came
across it there, they might have remembered & used it simply because of
its novelty value.

--
Sam Plusnet

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

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From: adm...@127.0.0.1 (Kerr-Mudd, John)
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Subject: Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence
Date: Thu, 19 May 2022 20:58:13 +0100
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 by: Kerr-Mudd, John - Thu, 19 May 2022 19:58 UTC

On Thu, 19 May 2022 20:13:25 +0100
Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> wrote:

> On 19/05/2022 8:01 pm, Tony Cooper wrote:
> > On Thu, 19 May 2022 19:04:47 +0100, Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> On 2022-05-19, Tony Cooper wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Thu, 19 May 2022 09:17:03 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
> >>> <grammatim@verizon.net> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On Thursday, May 19, 2022 at 10:57:39 AM UTC-4, Tony Cooper wrote:
> >>>>> On Thu, 19 May 2022 07:39:16 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
> >>>>> <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
> >>>>>> On Thursday, May 19, 2022 at 8:00:55 AM UTC-4, CDB wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>>> There was a supporting character in _The Cafe_ who said it as an
> >>>>>>> intitalism, with emphasis. Some here may be pleased to learn that I
> >>>>>>> have had no success in my search for a Youtube clip of her.
> >>>>>> Is that kaff or kaffay?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> "kaffay". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kfVCQjLYek
> >>>>
> >>>> Contradicting what has been said here about the usual pronunciation
> >>>> of that word in BrE.
> >>>
> >>> Well, it doesn't as far as I know. You'd have to ask a Brit, but my
> >>> understanding is that a "kaff" is a particular type of eating place
> >>> that is associated with a down-market establishment. A "kaffay" is
> >>> more upmarket and appeals to a better crowd.
> >>
> >> Yes. And a "transport caff" (not sure if there's a standard spelling)
> >> is roughly equivalent to a truck stop.
> >>
> >
> > Thank you for "transport caff". That term eluded me, but it does seem
> > associated with what we would call "truck stops"; places where
> > long-haul truckers stop.
> >
> > However, our "truck stops" are frequently very large facilities. I
> > was in one recently with available showers, TV rooms, laundry
> > facilities, and an acre of aisles of merchandise for sale.
>
> We have such places, but we don't call them "transport cafes".
> They are normally on motorways and are known as "motorway
> services". Generally run as part of a chain: Moto, RoadChef,
> Welcome Break, Granada, etc. Expensive, with plastic food.
> Transport "caffs" are typically independent, cheap and cheerful
> affairs with rather more tempting (but still cholesterol-laden) fare.
>
And the latter are possibly extinct. I've not seen one for 3 decades.

I vaguety recalled a TV drama set in a cafe - a different seriess, based on a real one (well the location was). Up Sam's way.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_Cafe_(TV_series)
Yup, no-one's written anything about it!
Not much here either, but at least it did exist:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p00jzj0l

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

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 by: Sam Plusnet - Thu, 19 May 2022 20:00 UTC

On 19-May-22 5:27, Tony Cooper wrote:
> The phrase comes from the Second Amendment to the United States
> Constitution: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the
> security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear
> Arms, shall not be infringed."

Well if it's bear arms you want, why not stick to some bells and a
pepper spray?

--
Sam Plusnet

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

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 by: Sam Plusnet - Thu, 19 May 2022 20:06 UTC

On 19-May-22 14:40, lar3ryca wrote:
> On 2022-05-19 03:37, Adam Funk wrote:
>> On 2022-05-18, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>>
>>> On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 12:38:23 PM UTC-4, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>>>> On 18-May-22 7:09, Hibou wrote:
>>>>> Le 17/05/2022 à 16:47, Peter T. Daniels a écrit :
>>>> In reply to Hibou
>>>
>>>>>> OMG. The Bill of Rights was written in 1790.
>>>>
>>>> Surely "OMG" is an exclamation one would expect from a "Valley Girl",
>>>> not a senior citizen in NJ?
>>>
>>> So Americanisms are another thing you're not up on. It is not pronounced
>>> as an initialism; it is simply "oh, my God!" expressing incredulity.
>>
>> I have heard (young) people say "oh em gee".
>
> That can't possibly be true! I thought I had heard it quite a few times
> from neighbour's kids and some of my great-nephews and great-nieces, but
> if troll hasn't heard it, I must be mistaken.
>
Once on a bus travelling into Bath, one of a group of teenage girls[1]
said exactly that at 60 second intervals. It seemed like a very long
bus ride.

[1] I had no reason to connect them with any particular valley.

--
Sam Plusnet

Re: An interlingual phonetic coincidence

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 by: Sam Plusnet - Thu, 19 May 2022 20:08 UTC

On 19-May-22 16:09, Tony Cooper wrote:

> *Even killfilers may know this if they read those mythical "snippets"
> that are alleged to miscontrue or misrepresent PTD's comments.
>
When viewed through a darkened mirror, those snippets are slightly less
frightening.

--
Sam Plusnet

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