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interests / alt.usage.english / Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkw

SubjectAuthor
* How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkwDavid Kleinecke
+- Re: How to pronounce pkwoRuud Harmsen
+* Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkwPeter T. Daniels
|`* Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkwbil...@shaw.ca
| +* Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ueRoss Clark
| |`* Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkwbil...@shaw.ca
| | +- Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’Madhu
| | `* Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkwDavid Kleinecke
| |  +* Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘uePeter Moylan
| |  |`- Re: How to pronounce pkwo?-o-lo? ?ue-merkwTony Cooper
| |  `- Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkwPeter T. Daniels
| `- Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkwAthel Cornish-Bowden
`* Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkwJerry Friedman
 +* Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ueCDB
 |`- Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkwJerry Friedman
 `* Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkwbil...@shaw.ca
  +- Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkwPeter T. Daniels
  `* Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkwJerry Friedman
   +* Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkwQuinn C
   |`* Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkwJerry Friedman
   | +* Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkwQuinn C
   | |+- Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkwPeter T. Daniels
   | |`- Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkwJerry Friedman
   | `* Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ueSilvano
   |  +* Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkwAthel Cornish-Bowden
   |  |`* Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘uePeter Moylan
   |  | `* Re: How to pronounce pkwo'-o-lo' 'ue-merkwJ. J. Lodder
   |  |  `* Re: How to pronounce pkwo'-o-lo' 'ue-merkwSilvano
   |  |   +* Re: How to pronounce pkwo'-o-lo' 'ue-merkwKerr-Mudd, John
   |  |   |+- Re: How to pronounce pkwo'-o-lo' 'ue-merkwPeter T. Daniels
   |  |   |+- Re: How to pronounce pkwo'-o-lo' 'ue-merkwRichard Heathfield
   |  |   |+* Re: How to pronounce pkwo'-o-lo' 'ue-merkwJ. J. Lodder
   |  |   ||`* Re: How to pronounce pkwo'-o-lo' 'ue-merkwKerr-Mudd, John
   |  |   || `- Re: How to pronounce pkwo'-o-lo' 'ue-merkwJ. J. Lodder
   |  |   |+* Re: How to pronounce pkwo'-o-lo' 'ue-merkwSilvano
   |  |   ||+* Re: How to pronounce pkwo'-o-lo' 'ue-merkwKerr-Mudd, John
   |  |   |||`- Re: How to pronounce pkwo'-o-lo' 'ue-merkwKen Blake
   |  |   ||`- Re: How to pronounce pkwo'-o-lo' 'ue-merkwPeter T. Daniels
   |  |   |`* Re: How to pronounce pkwo'-o-lo' 'ue-merkwCDB
   |  |   | `* Re: How to pronounce pkwo'-o-lo' 'ue-merkwRichard Heathfield
   |  |   |  `* Re: How to pronounce pkwo'-o-lo' 'ue-merkwCDB
   |  |   |   `* Re: How to pronounce pkwo'-o-lo' 'ue-merkwRichard Heathfield
   |  |   |    `* Re: How to pronounce pkwo'-o-lo' 'ue-merkwCDB
   |  |   |     `* Re: How to pronounce pkwo'-o-lo' 'ue-merkwRichard Heathfield
   |  |   |      `* Re: How to pronounce pkwo'-o-lo' 'ue-merkwCDB
   |  |   |       `* Re: How to pronounce pkwo'-o-lo' 'ue-merkwAnders D. Nygaard
   |  |   |        +- Re: How to pronounce pkwo'-o-lo' 'ue-merkwKerr-Mudd, John
   |  |   |        `* Re: How to pronounce pkwo'-o-lo' 'ue-merkwCDB
   |  |   |         `- Re: How to pronounce pkwo'-o-lo' 'ue-merkwPhoenix Mister Two
   |  |   +- Re: How to pronounce pkwo'-o-lo' 'ue-merkwPeter Moylan
   |  |   +* Re: How to pronounce pkwo'-o-lo' 'ue-merkwRuud Harmsen
   |  |   |`* Re: How to pronounce pkwo'-o-lo' 'ue-merkwSilvano
   |  |   | `- Re: How to pronounce pkwo'-o-lo' 'ue-merkwRuud Harmsen
   |  |   `* Re: How to pronounce pkwo'-o-lo' 'ue-merkwRuud Harmsen
   |  |    +- Re: How to pronounce pkwo'-o-lo' 'ue-merkwKerr-Mudd, John
   |  |    `- Re: How to pronounce pkwo'-o-lo' 'ue-merkwPeter T. Daniels
   |  `- Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkwJerry Friedman
   `* Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘uelar3ryca
    +* Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkwPeter T. Daniels
    |`- Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ueCDB
    `* Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkwJerry Friedman
     `* Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkwDavid Kleinecke
      +- Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkwbil...@shaw.ca
      +* Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘uePeter Moylan
      |`- Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkwbil...@shaw.ca
      `- Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’Kerr-Mudd, John

Pages:123
Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkw

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Subject: Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkw
From: jerry_fr...@yahoo.com (Jerry Friedman)
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 by: Jerry Friedman - Thu, 19 May 2022 15:48 UTC

On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 12:54:11 PM UTC-6, lar3ryca wrote:
> On 2022-05-18 09:47, Jerry Friedman wrote:
....

> > https://lostcoastoutpost.com/2022/may/13/yurok-tribe-petitions-federal-government-change-lo/

> That's hilarious! They've censored the word 'Squaw' and left 'Tit' as is.

> > which includes a sound file. The pronunciation is not, in my opinion, anything
> > like what the spelling suggests, and will be very difficult for about 99% of non-
> > Yuroks.

> It's a pretty good bet that non-Yurok folks will not be calling it that.
....

Not to stereotype about the North Coast of California, but there might be a few
stoned ex-hippies who will give it a try.

(Stoned ex-hippies are not unknown here in northern New Mexico either.)

--
Jerry Friedman

Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkw

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Subject: Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkw
From: jerry_fr...@yahoo.com (Jerry Friedman)
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 by: Jerry Friedman - Thu, 19 May 2022 15:50 UTC

On Thursday, May 19, 2022 at 7:50:04 AM UTC-6, Quinn C wrote:
> * Jerry Friedman:
>
> > On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 10:33:50 AM UTC-6, Quinn C wrote:
> >> * Jerry Friedman:
> >>> On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 1:46:08 AM UTC-6, bil...@shaw.ca wrote:
> >>>> On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 8:02:47 AM UTC-7, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> >>>>> On Friday, May 13, 2022 at 11:20:06 PM UTC-6, dklei...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>>> > We want to change the name of Squaw Tit Mountain to pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkw
> >>>>> > (Yurok for maple). This is something that will terrify the average English speaker. I am unsure how to say it (I have neglected my Yurok phonology). I
> >>>>> > imagine "pkw" is a labialized co-articulated stop and "'" is a glottal stop. But two glottal stops? I imagine people will say something like "polowemerk"
> >>> ...
> >>>
> >>>>> I'd go farther than PTD and suggest "Maple Mountain", though "Polowemerk Mountain" might be a possibility. Maybe you could find a Yurok speaker and get them to start a game of telephone (=Chinese whispers) with their word, in order to mimic the changes the word would go through in anglicization. (Wikipedia says that in 2013, there were no native speakers left, but there were some 400 people who had studied the language, including 17 who were conversationally fluent.)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Have Yurok people made suggestions about the name of the mountain?
> >>>>>
> >>>> https://krcrtv.com/north-coast-news/eureka-local-news/yurok-tribe-calls-for-changing-offensive-mountain-peak-name
> >>>
> >>> You mean there's an Internet where I can find answers to such questions?
> >>> However, that page didn't load for me. Here's another one
> >>>
> >>> https://lostcoastoutpost.com/2022/may/13/yurok-tribe-petitions-federal-government-change-lo/
> >>>
> >>> which includes a sound file. The pronunciation is not, in my opinion, anything
> >>> like what the spelling suggests,
> >
> >> I find it remarkably close to what I'd make of the spelling without
> >> further instruction.
> >
> > Huh. I can't hear the e in `ue
> Agreed.
>
> > or the final kw,
>
> I perceived something after the k, but not something I could classify or
> would seem important to a speaker of German or English. That's the
> problem. But there seemed to be fewer issues of that kind than I
> expected.

I can't even hear the k.

> > and the e in "merkw" sound[s] like /a/ to me.

> That it didn't.

No, it did.

> IIRC, it sounded more or less like English "merk" to me.

Interesting. Just goes to show, as they say.

--
Jerry Friedman

Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkw

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Subject: Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkw
From: dkleine...@gmail.com (David Kleinecke)
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 by: David Kleinecke - Fri, 20 May 2022 05:07 UTC

On Thursday, May 19, 2022 at 8:49:00 AM UTC-7, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 12:54:11 PM UTC-6, lar3ryca wrote:
> > On 2022-05-18 09:47, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> ...
> > > https://lostcoastoutpost.com/2022/may/13/yurok-tribe-petitions-federal-government-change-lo/
>
> > That's hilarious! They've censored the word 'Squaw' and left 'Tit' as is.
>
> > > which includes a sound file. The pronunciation is not, in my opinion, anything
> > > like what the spelling suggests, and will be very difficult for about 99% of non-
> > > Yuroks.
>
> > It's a pretty good bet that non-Yurok folks will not be calling it that.
> ...
>
> Not to stereotype about the North Coast of California, but there might be a few
> stoned ex-hippies who will give it a try.
>
> (Stoned ex-hippies are not unknown here in northern New Mexico either.)

We have ex-hippies and we have stoned people. But I think the populations don't
overlap significantly. All the old hippies are now over seventy and got to such an
age by being careful. Careful is not a attribute of the stoned.

If you were 18 in 1970 you are 70 now. Hum. Close enough for government work.

Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkw

<4be5fce9-ffc1-471c-b424-fa1132ea15bfn@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkw
From: bill...@shaw.ca (bil...@shaw.ca)
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 by: bil...@shaw.ca - Fri, 20 May 2022 06:11 UTC

On Thursday, May 19, 2022 at 10:07:43 PM UTC-7, dklei...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, May 19, 2022 at 8:49:00 AM UTC-7, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> > On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 12:54:11 PM UTC-6, lar3ryca wrote:
> > > On 2022-05-18 09:47, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> > ...
> > > > https://lostcoastoutpost.com/2022/may/13/yurok-tribe-petitions-federal-government-change-lo/
> >
> > > That's hilarious! They've censored the word 'Squaw' and left 'Tit' as is.
> >
> > > > which includes a sound file. The pronunciation is not, in my opinion, anything
> > > > like what the spelling suggests, and will be very difficult for about 99% of non-
> > > > Yuroks.
> >
> > > It's a pretty good bet that non-Yurok folks will not be calling it that.
> > ...
> > Not to stereotype about the North Coast of California, but there might be a few
> > stoned ex-hippies who will give it a try.
> >
> > (Stoned ex-hippies are not unknown here in northern New Mexico either.)

> We have ex-hippies and we have stoned people. But I think the populations don't
> overlap significantly. All the old hippies are now over seventy and got to such an
> age by being careful. Careful is not a attribute of the stoned.

I don't think that's right. I'm a minor expert on this generation; I turned 18 in 1965
and entered university in 1966, just in time for so many adventures.

I have known many people who were stoned as often as not, and I can report that
they were careful or not careful in roughly the same proportions as the rest
of the population. It wasn't a function of being stoned.

bill

Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkw

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Subject: Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue
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 by: Peter Moylan - Fri, 20 May 2022 07:05 UTC

On 20/05/22 15:07, David Kleinecke wrote:

> We have ex-hippies and we have stoned people. But I think the
> populations don't overlap significantly. All the old hippies are now
> over seventy and got to such an age by being careful. Careful is not
> a attribute of the stoned.

A strong impression I got in San Francisco is that all the hippies had
moved over the bridge to Marin County. The hippies had turned into yuppies.

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

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From: Silv...@noncisonopernessuno.it (Silvano)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue
-merkw
Date: Fri, 20 May 2022 09:40:04 +0200
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 by: Silvano - Fri, 20 May 2022 07:40 UTC

Jerry Friedman hat am 19.05.2022 um 00:24 geschrieben:
> On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 10:33:50 AM UTC-6, Quinn C wrote:

>> Having names in two languages for a geographic feature is not at all
>> unusual, globally speaking, so yes.
>
> Locally speaking, though, it's forbidden.

In the US, maybe. In countries with two or more official languages,
geographic features (and towns and cities) normally have different names
in those languages.

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Subject: Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’_
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 by: Kerr-Mudd, John - Fri, 20 May 2022 08:13 UTC

On Thu, 19 May 2022 22:07:40 -0700 (PDT)
David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thursday, May 19, 2022 at 8:49:00 AM UTC-7, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> > On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 12:54:11 PM UTC-6, lar3ryca wrote:
> > > On 2022-05-18 09:47, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> > ...
> > > > https://lostcoastoutpost.com/2022/may/13/yurok-tribe-petitions-federal-government-change-lo/
> >
> > > That's hilarious! They've censored the word 'Squaw' and left 'Tit' as is.
> >
> > > > which includes a sound file. The pronunciation is not, in my opinion, anything
> > > > like what the spelling suggests, and will be very difficult for about 99% of non-
> > > > Yuroks.
> >
> > > It's a pretty good bet that non-Yurok folks will not be calling it that.
> > ...
> >
> > Not to stereotype about the North Coast of California, but there might be a few
> > stoned ex-hippies who will give it a try.
> >
> > (Stoned ex-hippies are not unknown here in northern New Mexico either.)
>
> We have ex-hippies and we have stoned people. But I think the populations don't
> overlap significantly. All the old hippies are now over seventy and got to such an
> age by being careful. Careful is not a attribute of the stoned.
>
> If you were 18 in 1970 you are 70 now. Hum. Close enough for government work.

Punks with buspasses!

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

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From: acorn...@imm.cnrs.fr (Athel Cornish-Bowden)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkw
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 by: Athel Cornish-Bowden - Fri, 20 May 2022 08:20 UTC

On 2022-05-20 07:40:04 +0000, Silvano said:

> Jerry Friedman hat am 19.05.2022 um 00:24 geschrieben:
>> On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 10:33:50 AM UTC-6, Quinn C wrote:
>
>>> Having names in two languages for a geographic feature is not at all
>>> unusual, globally speaking, so yes.
>>
>> Locally speaking, though, it's forbidden.
>
> In the US, maybe. In countries with two or more official languages,
> geographic features (and towns and cities) normally have different names
> in those languages.

Sometimes very different, like Mons and Bergen.

--
Athel -- French and British, living mainly in England until 1987.

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From: pet...@pmoylan.org.invalid (Peter Moylan)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue
-merkw
Date: Fri, 20 May 2022 20:20:44 +1000
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 by: Peter Moylan - Fri, 20 May 2022 10:20 UTC

On 20/05/22 18:20, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> On 2022-05-20 07:40:04 +0000, Silvano said:
>
>> Jerry Friedman hat am 19.05.2022 um 00:24 geschrieben:
>>> On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 10:33:50 AM UTC-6, Quinn C wrote:
>>
>>>> Having names in two languages for a geographic feature is not
>>>> at all unusual, globally speaking, so yes.
>>>
>>> Locally speaking, though, it's forbidden.
>>
>> In the US, maybe. In countries with two or more official
>> languages, geographic features (and towns and cities) normally have
>> different names in those languages.
>
> Sometimes very different, like Mons and Bergen.

In some cases, e.g. the Belgian Mechelen/Malines, the two names are
direct translations of each other.

(Actually, Mons/Bergen is one of those cases. I'd never noticed that
before.)

Commonly enough, though, the two names seem to be unrelated.

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

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 by: bil...@shaw.ca - Fri, 20 May 2022 23:07 UTC

On Friday, May 20, 2022 at 12:05:05 AM UTC-7, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 20/05/22 15:07, David Kleinecke wrote:
>
> > We have ex-hippies and we have stoned people. But I think the
> > populations don't overlap significantly. All the old hippies are now
> > over seventy and got to such an age by being careful. Careful is not
> > a attribute of the stoned.

> A strong impression I got in San Francisco is that all the hippies had
> moved over the bridge to Marin County. The hippies had turned into yuppies.

There weren't nearly as many hippies as people think. There were a lot of people
from, say, the early 1960s to the mid-70s, or pick your own period, who had long hair,
smoked dope and dressed in a certain way, sometimes involving tie-dyed shirts. Many
people call them all hippies, but some of them were artists, university professors,
students, free-speech activists, bohemians from the '50s, political radicals, assorted
eccentrics, yippies and others.

Certainly some of them turned into what were called yuppies, but they were mostly
any of the above who went out and got jobs when they moved on to the next phase
of their lives.

bill

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Subject: Re: How to pronounce pkwo’-o-lo’ ‘ue-merkw
From: jerry_fr...@yahoo.com (Jerry Friedman)
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 by: Jerry Friedman - Sat, 21 May 2022 00:25 UTC

On Friday, May 20, 2022 at 1:40:10 AM UTC-6, Silvano wrote:
> Jerry Friedman hat am 19.05.2022 um 00:24 geschrieben:
> > On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 10:33:50 AM UTC-6, Quinn C wrote:
>
> >> Having names in two languages for a geographic feature is not at all
> >> unusual, globally speaking, so yes.
> >
> > Locally speaking, though, it's forbidden.

> In the US, maybe. In countries with two or more official languages,
> geographic features (and towns and cities) normally have different names
> in those languages.

Yes, I was whimsically using "locally" to mean "in the U.S." (And in the
context of official names.)

Also, this is a different situation from that of Switzerland, Canada, etc.,
since the proposed official name is in a language that well under a hundred
people speak fluently.

--
Jerry Friedman

Re: How to pronounce pkwo'-o-lo' 'ue-merkw

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From: nos...@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: How to pronounce pkwo'-o-lo' 'ue-merkw
Date: Thu, 26 May 2022 16:47:50 +0200
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 by: J. J. Lodder - Thu, 26 May 2022 14:47 UTC

Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:

> On 20/05/22 18:20, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> > On 2022-05-20 07:40:04 +0000, Silvano said:
> >
> >> Jerry Friedman hat am 19.05.2022 um 00:24 geschrieben:
> >>> On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 10:33:50 AM UTC-6, Quinn C wrote:
> >>
> >>>> Having names in two languages for a geographic feature is not
> >>>> at all unusual, globally speaking, so yes.
> >>>
> >>> Locally speaking, though, it's forbidden.
> >>
> >> In the US, maybe. In countries with two or more official
> >> languages, geographic features (and towns and cities) normally have
> >> different names in those languages.
> >
> > Sometimes very different, like Mons and Bergen.
>
> In some cases, e.g. the Belgian Mechelen/Malines, the two names are
> direct translations of each other.
>
> (Actually, Mons/Bergen is one of those cases. I'd never noticed that
> before.)

And Rijsel/Lille is one too.
Are there any that are really unrelated?

Jan

Re: How to pronounce pkwo'-o-lo' 'ue-merkw

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From: Silv...@noncisonopernessuno.it (Silvano)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: How to pronounce pkwo'-o-lo' 'ue-merkw
Date: Thu, 26 May 2022 20:34:28 +0200
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 by: Silvano - Thu, 26 May 2022 18:34 UTC

J. J. Lodder hat am 26.05.2022 um 16:47 geschrieben:

> And Rijsel/Lille is one too.
> Are there any that are really unrelated?

Please look yourself for the relationship between Aachen (German),
Aquisgrana (Italian) and Aix-la-Chapelle (French). Ok, A is always the
first letter. :-)

Italian friends of mine got lost on a Belgian highway before Internet
and navis, because they knew the first two names, but they could see
only the third one on Belgian highways on the French-speaking side they
were coming from.

Would they have understood that the Flemish Aken is the same as the
German Aachen if they had come from the north? Perhaps.

Also, we have in South Tyrol Ortisei (Italian) / St. Ulrich in Gröden
(German), Vipiteno (Italian) / Sterzing (German) and many more. In
Hungary: Pécs (Hungarian) / Fünfkirchen (German, perhaps outdated, but
please ask Austrians about it, as they still call Slovenia's capital
Laibach) and many more. In Poland (since 1945): Jelenia Góra (Polish) /
Hirschberg (German) and many more.
The last is not so unrelated, if you know that a German Hirsch, a Polish
jelen´ (the accent should be over the n) and an English deer are exactly
the same animal. Also, a German Berg, a Polish góra and an English
mountain are the same thing, but I guess than over 99.9% of native
English speakers do not know that.

Re: How to pronounce pkwo'-o-lo' 'ue-merkw

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From: adm...@127.0.0.1 (Kerr-Mudd, John)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: How to pronounce pkwo'-o-lo' 'ue-merkw
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 by: Kerr-Mudd, John - Thu, 26 May 2022 19:09 UTC

On Thu, 26 May 2022 20:34:28 +0200
Silvano <Silvano@noncisonopernessuno.it> wrote:
[]
> the same animal. Also, a German Berg, a Polish góra and an English
> mountain are the same thing, but I guess than over 99.9% of native
> English speakers do not know that.

Hardly the same thing; English mountains are much smaller!

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

Re: How to pronounce pkwo'-o-lo' 'ue-merkw

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Subject: Re: How to pronounce pkwo'-o-lo' 'ue-merkw
From: gramma...@verizon.net (Peter T. Daniels)
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 by: Peter T. Daniels - Thu, 26 May 2022 19:57 UTC

On Thursday, May 26, 2022 at 3:09:13 PM UTC-4, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
> On Thu, 26 May 2022 20:34:28 +0200
> Silvano <Sil...@noncisonopernessuno.it> wrote:

> > the same animal. Also, a German Berg, a Polish góra and an English
> > mountain are the same thing, but I guess than over 99.9% of native
> > English speakers do not know that.
>
> Hardly the same thing; English mountains are much smaller!

Not if you refer to Denali by its "slave name," Mt. McKinley.
> --
> Bah, and indeed Humbug.

Re: How to pronounce pkwo'-o-lo' 'ue-merkw

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From: rjh...@cpax.org.uk (Richard Heathfield)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: How to pronounce pkwo'-o-lo' 'ue-merkw
Date: Thu, 26 May 2022 21:11:27 +0100
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 by: Richard Heathfield - Thu, 26 May 2022 20:11 UTC

On 26/05/2022 8:09 pm, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
> On Thu, 26 May 2022 20:34:28 +0200
> Silvano <Silvano@noncisonopernessuno.it> wrote:
> []
>> the same animal. Also, a German Berg, a Polish góra and an English
>> mountain are the same thing, but I guess than over 99.9% of native
>> English speakers do not know that.
>
> Hardly the same thing; English mountains are much smaller!

Not true, sir!

German mountains are small enough to fit in an atlas, whereas
English mountains are so big they take the best part of a day.

--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

Re: How to pronounce pkwo'-o-lo' 'ue-merkw

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From: pet...@pmoylan.org.invalid (Peter Moylan)
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Subject: Re: How to pronounce pkwo'-o-lo' 'ue-merkw
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 by: Peter Moylan - Thu, 26 May 2022 22:08 UTC

On 27/05/22 04:34, Silvano wrote:
> J. J. Lodder hat am 26.05.2022 um 16:47 geschrieben:
>
>> And Rijsel/Lille is one too. Are there any that are really
>> unrelated?
>
> Please look yourself for the relationship between Aachen (German),
> Aquisgrana (Italian) and Aix-la-Chapelle (French). Ok, A is always
> the first letter. :-)
>
> Italian friends of mine got lost on a Belgian highway before
> Internet and navis, because they knew the first two names, but they
> could see only the third one on Belgian highways on the
> French-speaking side they were coming from.
>
> Would they have understood that the Flemish Aken is the same as the
> German Aachen if they had come from the north? Perhaps.
>
> Also, we have in South Tyrol Ortisei (Italian) / St. Ulrich in
> Gröden (German), Vipiteno (Italian) / Sterzing (German) and many
> more. In Hungary: Pécs (Hungarian) / Fünfkirchen (German, perhaps
> outdated, but please ask Austrians about it, as they still call
> Slovenia's capital Laibach) and many more. In Poland (since 1945):
> Jelenia Góra (Polish) / Hirschberg (German) and many more. The last
> is not so unrelated, if you know that a German Hirsch, a Polish
> jelen´ (the accent should be over the n) and an English deer are
> exactly the same animal. Also, a German Berg, a Polish góra and an
> English mountain are the same thing, but I guess than over 99.9% of
> native English speakers do not know that.

While tracing my wife's ancestry we found one family that came from Pila
in Poland, according to some documents, and Schneidermühl in Germany
according to others. It took me a while to realise that they are the
same place. It's in the part of Poland where borders kept shfting.

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

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 by: Ruud Harmsen - Fri, 27 May 2022 06:52 UTC

Thu, 26 May 2022 20:34:28 +0200: Silvano
<Silvano@noncisonopernessuno.it> scribeva:

>Italian friends of mine got lost on a Belgian highway before Internet
>and navis, because they knew the first two names, but they could see
>only the third one on Belgian highways on the French-speaking side they
>were coming from.

Well, but they call München/Munich Monaco, which is quite confusing.

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 by: Ruud Harmsen - Fri, 27 May 2022 06:54 UTC

Thu, 26 May 2022 20:34:28 +0200: Silvano
<Silvano@noncisonopernessuno.it> scribeva:

>Also, we have in South Tyrol Ortisei (Italian) / St. Ulrich in Gröden
>(German), Vipiteno (Italian) / Sterzing (German) and many more. In
>Hungary: Pécs (Hungarian) / Fünfkirchen (German, perhaps outdated, but
>please ask Austrians about it, as they still call Slovenia's capital
>Laibach) and many more. In Poland (since 1945): Jelenia Góra (Polish) /
>Hirschberg (German) and many more.

Pressburg. Bratislava.

Re: How to pronounce pkwo'-o-lo' 'ue-merkw

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From: nos...@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder)
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Subject: Re: How to pronounce pkwo'-o-lo' 'ue-merkw
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 by: J. J. Lodder - Fri, 27 May 2022 07:15 UTC

Kerr-Mudd, John <admin@127.0.0.1> wrote:

> On Thu, 26 May 2022 20:34:28 +0200
> Silvano <Silvano@noncisonopernessuno.it> wrote:
> []
> > the same animal. Also, a German Berg, a Polish góra and an English
> > mountain are the same thing, but I guess than over 99.9% of native
> > English speakers do not know that.
>
> Hardly the same thing; English mountains are much smaller!

But Dutch mountains are smaller still!!

Jan

Re: How to pronounce pkwo'-o-lo' 'ue-merkw

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From: adm...@127.0.0.1 (Kerr-Mudd, John)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: How to pronounce pkwo'-o-lo' 'ue-merkw
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 by: Kerr-Mudd, John - Fri, 27 May 2022 08:36 UTC

On Fri, 27 May 2022 08:54:01 +0200
Ruud Harmsen <rh@rudhar.com> wrote:

> Thu, 26 May 2022 20:34:28 +0200: Silvano
> <Silvano@noncisonopernessuno.it> scribeva:
>
> >Also, we have in South Tyrol Ortisei (Italian) / St. Ulrich in Gröden
> >(German), Vipiteno (Italian) / Sterzing (German) and many more. In
> >Hungary: Pécs (Hungarian) / Fünfkirchen (German, perhaps outdated, but
> >please ask Austrians about it, as they still call Slovenia's capital
> >Laibach) and many more. In Poland (since 1945): Jelenia Góra (Polish) /
> >Hirschberg (German) and many more.
>
> Pressburg. Bratislava.

That's Slovakia, He was right about Slovenia's capital. Or maybe you're just adding to the list. OK I'll get my coat.

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

Re: How to pronounce pkwo'-o-lo' 'ue-merkw

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From: adm...@127.0.0.1 (Kerr-Mudd, John)
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Subject: Re: How to pronounce pkwo'-o-lo' 'ue-merkw
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 by: Kerr-Mudd, John - Fri, 27 May 2022 08:40 UTC

On Fri, 27 May 2022 09:15:22 +0200
nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) wrote:

> Kerr-Mudd, John <admin@127.0.0.1> wrote:
>
> > On Thu, 26 May 2022 20:34:28 +0200
> > Silvano <Silvano@noncisonopernessuno.it> wrote:
> > []
> > > the same animal. Also, a German Berg, a Polish góra and an English
> > > mountain are the same thing, but I guess than over 99.9% of native
> > > English speakers do not know that.
> >
> > Hardly the same thing; English mountains are much smaller!
>
> But Dutch mountains are smaller still!!
>
Try Nauru. Blimey 71m! Let's use a Famous Wiktionary:

Tuvalu 5m max.

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

Re: How to pronounce pkwo'-o-lo' 'ue-merkw

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From: Silv...@noncisonopernessuno.it (Silvano)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: How to pronounce pkwo'-o-lo' 'ue-merkw
Date: Fri, 27 May 2022 10:40:59 +0200
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 by: Silvano - Fri, 27 May 2022 08:40 UTC

Kerr-Mudd, John hat am 26.05.2022 um 21:09 geschrieben:
> On Thu, 26 May 2022 20:34:28 +0200
> Silvano <Silvano@noncisonopernessuno.it> wrote:
> []
>> the same animal. Also, a German Berg, a Polish góra and an English
>> mountain are the same thing, but I guess than over 99.9% of native
>> English speakers do not know that.
>
> Hardly the same thing; English mountains are much smaller!

Good joke, but: do you call e.g. the Mont Blanc a "mountain" in English?

Re: How to pronounce pkwo'-o-lo' 'ue-merkw

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From: Silv...@noncisonopernessuno.it (Silvano)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: How to pronounce pkwo'-o-lo' 'ue-merkw
Date: Fri, 27 May 2022 10:43:45 +0200
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 by: Silvano - Fri, 27 May 2022 08:43 UTC

Ruud Harmsen hat am 27.05.2022 um 08:52 geschrieben:
> Thu, 26 May 2022 20:34:28 +0200: Silvano
> <Silvano@noncisonopernessuno.it> scribeva:
>
>> Italian friends of mine got lost on a Belgian highway before Internet
>> and navis, because they knew the first two names, but they could see
>> only the third one on Belgian highways on the French-speaking side they
>> were coming from.
>
> Well, but they call München/Munich Monaco, which is quite confusing.

Wrong. We always say "Monaco di Baviera", precisely to avoid confusion
with the small country of Monaco.

Re: How to pronounce pkwo'-o-lo' 'ue-merkw

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From: adm...@127.0.0.1 (Kerr-Mudd, John)
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Subject: Re: How to pronounce pkwo'-o-lo' 'ue-merkw
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 by: Kerr-Mudd, John - Fri, 27 May 2022 08:45 UTC

On Fri, 27 May 2022 10:40:59 +0200
Silvano <Silvano@noncisonopernessuno.it> wrote:

> Kerr-Mudd, John hat am 26.05.2022 um 21:09 geschrieben:
> > On Thu, 26 May 2022 20:34:28 +0200
> > Silvano <Silvano@noncisonopernessuno.it> wrote:
> > []
> >> the same animal. Also, a German Berg, a Polish góra and an English
> >> mountain are the same thing, but I guess than over 99.9% of native
> >> English speakers do not know that.
> >
> > Hardly the same thing; English mountains are much smaller!
>
>
> Good joke, but: do you call e.g. the Mont Blanc a "mountain" in English?

I would.
I don't think I'd say "the mountain Mont Blanc", but I don't think it would strike Native Speakers as obviously wrong.

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

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