On Wednesday, 30 December 2020 at 01:22:26 UTC, JBrand wrote:
> On Tuesday, December 29, 2020 at 4:13:41 PM UTC-5, Alfred Butler wrote:
> > On Monday, January 7, 2019 at 11:57:17 AM UTC-5, deljea...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Sunday, September 7, 2008 at 2:03:07 PM UTC-5, lma...@att.net wrote:
> > > > On Sep 5, 3:46 pm, John Brandon <starbuc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > http://contentdm.lib.byu.edu/cdm4/document.php?CISOROOT=/FH25&CISOPTR...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > If youre interested in notable descendants of Edmund Hawes of Mass.,
> > > > a recent one is Sarah Palin:
> > > >
> > > > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~battle/palin.htm
> > > > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~battle/heath.htm
> > > >
> > > > She has other colonial ancestors of royal descent
> > > > including: Edward Raynsford, Audrey (Barlow) Almy,
> > > > Dr. Richard Palgrave, and Rev. Peter Bulkeley.
> > > > She descends from several Mayflower passengers,
> > > > including Brewster, Howland, Hopkins, Samson, Tilley and Warren.
> > > >
> > > > Leslie
> > > Unfortunately that makes her a cousin of mine many times 'over'. :)
> > Good afternoon
> >
> > I am coming into the game late but I am looking into the background of Nicholas Butler
> > my 11 generation great-grandfather.
> >
> > I was searching for the will of Henry Vanner, which contains references to Joyce Baker and Butler.
> > This is how I came upon this discussion.
> >
> > What brought me here was the reference to Vanner in this post.
> > A somewhat nice source of material
> >
> > https://johnsonfamily.talldude.net/richard-baker-3231/genstory/304/culimination-of-research
> >
> > Regards Al
> While that webpage does have some good basic information, particularly near the beginning, the attempt to connect Joyce Baker Butler to the gentry family of Baker of Sissinghurst is misguided, in my opinion. Since Joyce's father Richard Baker was a miller, I think this would preclude his being a son of Thomas Baker of Sissinghurst, a gentleman.
>
> As a Baker-Bayes descendant, I have also to take issue with the following paragraphs:
>
> "The Richard Baker mentioned is almost certainly Joyce's father, as the Margaret Baker mentioned afterwards is her mother. John Harker, Margaret's second husband, was also a miller of Ashford, and in his will he mentions the children of Thomas Boulding (who married Mary Baker above) along with his own children. (25) This would mean Mary (Baker) Boulding was Joyce's sister Mary, who was mentioned in the will of Christopher Merry and Richard Baker.
>
> It is also likely Joyce's sister Joanne later went to New England after her sister. An "Anne Baker" married a Thomas Bayes there, and settled on Martha's Vineyard, right where Joyce and Nicholas Butler lived."
>
> I think the writer is assuming that the name "Joanne" was identical to the modern-day "Jo-Anne," and hence that Anne could likely be a variant. Actually, the name is just plain "Joan" spelled a little elaborately. Anne Baker, who married Thomas Bayes at Dedham in New England, about 15 years before they went to Martha's Vineyard, was probably not related to Joyce (Baker) Butler.

Yes, I agree with this. I am a direct descendent of Thomas Boulding (1592 - 1663) who married Mary Baker (sister to Joyce who m1623 to Nicholas Butler). If I read the mention of "cousin Joyce wife of Nicholas Butler of Ashford, daughter of Richard Baker deceased" in Hy Vanner's will it suggests Joyce as the connection rather than the Butler side. I think it unlikely that Richard Baker has much of a (recent) connection with the Sissinghurst Bakers. Reading various Sissinghurst Baker wills there is no mention of a Richard Baker that could match the Richard Baker who married Margaret Merry (unfortunately - It would have been nice if this were true as I live 5 munutes away from Sissinghurst Castle).

It should also be noted that there is no reliable source of Richard Baker being a miller that I can find. Joyce's step-father John Harker (Hawker) was the miller of Ashford and as Richard Baker died when the Joyce was only 2 years old he would have been the only father she knew... Whilst various histories say Richard Baker was a miller there is no confirmation of this anywhere. Prior to living in Ashford Richard brought up his family in Stanford, Kent (11 miles from Ashford). Perhaps he married Margaret Merry there? No marriage has been found. I am still actively investigating Richard Baker. I'll let you know how I get on. As the the Merry family I have drawn a blank although there is a Christopher Merry at the Merchant Taylor school in London (deadly enemy of the Skinners' company - I was educated at the Skinners' school - this emnity stems from "at sixes and sevens") See https://www.merchant-taylors.co.uk/news/billesden-award

On Monday, 3 May 2021 at 11:15:10 UTC+1, David Boulding wrote:
> On Wednesday, 30 December 2020 at 01:22:26 UTC, JBrand wrote:
> > On Tuesday, December 29, 2020 at 4:13:41 PM UTC-5, Alfred Butler wrote:
> > > On Monday, January 7, 2019 at 11:57:17 AM UTC-5, deljea...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > On Sunday, September 7, 2008 at 2:03:07 PM UTC-5, lma...@att.net wrote:
> > > > > On Sep 5, 3:46 pm, John Brandon <starbuc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > http://contentdm.lib.byu.edu/cdm4/document.php?CISOROOT=/FH25&CISOPTR...
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > If youre interested in notable descendants of Edmund Hawes of Mass.,
> > > > > a recent one is Sarah Palin:
> > > > >
> > > > > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~battle/palin.htm
> > > > > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~battle/heath.htm
> > > > >
> > > > > She has other colonial ancestors of royal descent
> > > > > including: Edward Raynsford, Audrey (Barlow) Almy,
> > > > > Dr. Richard Palgrave, and Rev. Peter Bulkeley.
> > > > > She descends from several Mayflower passengers,
> > > > > including Brewster, Howland, Hopkins, Samson, Tilley and Warren.
> > > > >
> > > > > Leslie
> > > > Unfortunately that makes her a cousin of mine many times 'over'. :)
> > > Good afternoon
> > >
> > > I am coming into the game late but I am looking into the background of Nicholas Butler
> > > my 11 generation great-grandfather.
> > >
> > > I was searching for the will of Henry Vanner, which contains references to Joyce Baker and Butler.
> > > This is how I came upon this discussion.
> > >
> > > What brought me here was the reference to Vanner in this post.
> > > A somewhat nice source of material
> > >
> > > https://johnsonfamily.talldude.net/richard-baker-3231/genstory/304/culimination-of-research
> > >
> > > Regards Al
> > While that webpage does have some good basic information, particularly near the beginning, the attempt to connect Joyce Baker Butler to the gentry family of Baker of Sissinghurst is misguided, in my opinion. Since Joyce's father Richard Baker was a miller, I think this would preclude his being a son of Thomas Baker of Sissinghurst, a gentleman.
> >
> > As a Baker-Bayes descendant, I have also to take issue with the following paragraphs:
> >
> > "The Richard Baker mentioned is almost certainly Joyce's father, as the Margaret Baker mentioned afterwards is her mother. John Harker, Margaret's second husband, was also a miller of Ashford, and in his will he mentions the children of Thomas Boulding (who married Mary Baker above) along with his own children. (25) This would mean Mary (Baker) Boulding was Joyce's sister Mary, who was mentioned in the will of Christopher Merry and Richard Baker.
> >
> > It is also likely Joyce's sister Joanne later went to New England after her sister. An "Anne Baker" married a Thomas Bayes there, and settled on Martha's Vineyard, right where Joyce and Nicholas Butler lived."
> >
> > I think the writer is assuming that the name "Joanne" was identical to the modern-day "Jo-Anne," and hence that Anne could likely be a variant. Actually, the name is just plain "Joan" spelled a little elaborately. Anne Baker, who married Thomas Bayes at Dedham in New England, about 15 years before they went to Martha's Vineyard, was probably not related to Joyce (Baker) Butler.
> Yes, I agree with this. I am a direct descendent of Thomas Boulding (1592 - 1663) who married Mary Baker (sister to Joyce who m1623 to Nicholas Butler). If I read the mention of "cousin Joyce wife of Nicholas Butler of Ashford, daughter of Richard Baker deceased" in Hy Vanner's will it suggests Joyce as the connection rather than the Butler side. I think it unlikely that Richard Baker has much of a (recent) connection with the Sissinghurst Bakers. Reading various Sissinghurst Baker wills there is no mention of a Richard Baker that could match the Richard Baker who married Margaret Merry (unfortunately - It would have been nice if this were true as I live 5 munutes away from Sissinghurst Castle).
>
> It should also be noted that there is no reliable source of Richard Baker being a miller that I can find. Joyce's step-father John Harker (Hawker) was the miller of Ashford and as Richard Baker died when the Joyce was only 2 years old he would have been the only father she knew... Whilst various histories say Richard Baker was a miller there is no confirmation of this anywhere. Prior to living in Ashford Richard brought up his family in Stanford, Kent (11 miles from Ashford). Perhaps he married Margaret Merry there? No marriage has been found. I am still actively investigating Richard Baker. I'll let you know how I get on. As the the Merry family I have drawn a blank although there is a Christopher Merry at the Merchant Taylor school in London (deadly enemy of the Skinners' company - I was educated at the Skinners' school - this emnity stems from "at sixes and sevens") See https://www.merchant-taylors.co.uk/news/billesden-award

Ursula Vanner was nee Rooke as is noted in her will 1634

https://archive.org/stream/genealogist04lond/genealogist04lond_djvu.txt</p>

<Will of Ursula Vanner, Widow, of Parish of S. George, Canterbury.

Dated 5th Nov. 1632, and proved 1 6th June 1634.

Amongst many charities, she leaves £50 to clothe 50 poor widows or women of
S. George’s parish ; 40s to the poor of Monkshorton ; 40« to the poor of the Walloon
or French Congregation ; and £5 to “the preacher that shall preach at my funerall.”

She names, Brothers George, William, and John Rooke, and the wives of George,
William and John Rooke ; nephews and niece Laurence, William and Mary,
children of Brother George ; Sister Barton ; Brother and Sister Best ; Brother Taver-
ner ; nephew Fyneux and niece Ursula Fyneux ; cosen Thomas Fineux and wife ;
cosen John Best and his wife ; nephew George Best; and cosen Finch.

Appoints overseers of will, Brother Francis Barton and Peter Pyard ; and Exor.,
Brother George.

In a codicil she names John, George, Laurence, and Anne, the children of her
brother William Rooke, and Susan Rooke, his now wife.

On Sunday, April 3, 2022 at 2:59:40 PM UTC+1, David Boulding wrote:
> On Monday, 3 May 2021 at 11:15:10 UTC+1, David Boulding wrote:
> > On Wednesday, 30 December 2020 at 01:22:26 UTC, JBrand wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, December 29, 2020 at 4:13:41 PM UTC-5, Alfred Butler wrote:
> > > > On Monday, January 7, 2019 at 11:57:17 AM UTC-5, deljea...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > On Sunday, September 7, 2008 at 2:03:07 PM UTC-5, lma...@att.net wrote:
> > > > > > On Sep 5, 3:46 pm, John Brandon <starbuc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > http://contentdm.lib.byu.edu/cdm4/document.php?CISOROOT=/FH25&CISOPTR...
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If youre interested in notable descendants of Edmund Hawes of Mass.,
> > > > > > a recent one is Sarah Palin:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~battle/palin.htm
> > > > > > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~battle/heath.htm
> > > > > >
> > > > > > She has other colonial ancestors of royal descent
> > > > > > including: Edward Raynsford, Audrey (Barlow) Almy,
> > > > > > Dr. Richard Palgrave, and Rev. Peter Bulkeley.
> > > > > > She descends from several Mayflower passengers,
> > > > > > including Brewster, Howland, Hopkins, Samson, Tilley and Warren..
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Leslie
> > > > > Unfortunately that makes her a cousin of mine many times 'over'. :)
> > > > Good afternoon
> > > >
> > > > I am coming into the game late but I am looking into the background of Nicholas Butler
> > > > my 11 generation great-grandfather.
> > > >
> > > > I was searching for the will of Henry Vanner, which contains references to Joyce Baker and Butler.
> > > > This is how I came upon this discussion.
> > > >
> > > > What brought me here was the reference to Vanner in this post.
> > > > A somewhat nice source of material
> > > >
> > > > https://johnsonfamily.talldude.net/richard-baker-3231/genstory/304/culimination-of-research
> > > >
> > > > Regards Al
> > > While that webpage does have some good basic information, particularly near the beginning, the attempt to connect Joyce Baker Butler to the gentry family of Baker of Sissinghurst is misguided, in my opinion. Since Joyce's father Richard Baker was a miller, I think this would preclude his being a son of Thomas Baker of Sissinghurst, a gentleman.
> > >
> > > As a Baker-Bayes descendant, I have also to take issue with the following paragraphs:
> > >
> > > "The Richard Baker mentioned is almost certainly Joyce's father, as the Margaret Baker mentioned afterwards is her mother. John Harker, Margaret's second husband, was also a miller of Ashford, and in his will he mentions the children of Thomas Boulding (who married Mary Baker above) along with his own children. (25) This would mean Mary (Baker) Boulding was Joyce's sister Mary, who was mentioned in the will of Christopher Merry and Richard Baker.
> > >
> > > It is also likely Joyce's sister Joanne later went to New England after her sister. An "Anne Baker" married a Thomas Bayes there, and settled on Martha's Vineyard, right where Joyce and Nicholas Butler lived."
> > >
> > > I think the writer is assuming that the name "Joanne" was identical to the modern-day "Jo-Anne," and hence that Anne could likely be a variant. Actually, the name is just plain "Joan" spelled a little elaborately. Anne Baker, who married Thomas Bayes at Dedham in New England, about 15 years before they went to Martha's Vineyard, was probably not related to Joyce (Baker) Butler.
> > Yes, I agree with this. I am a direct descendent of Thomas Boulding (1592 - 1663) who married Mary Baker (sister to Joyce who m1623 to Nicholas Butler). If I read the mention of "cousin Joyce wife of Nicholas Butler of Ashford, daughter of Richard Baker deceased" in Hy Vanner's will it suggests Joyce as the connection rather than the Butler side. I think it unlikely that Richard Baker has much of a (recent) connection with the Sissinghurst Bakers. Reading various Sissinghurst Baker wills there is no mention of a Richard Baker that could match the Richard Baker who married Margaret Merry (unfortunately - It would have been nice if this were true as I live 5 munutes away from Sissinghurst Castle).
> >
> > It should also be noted that there is no reliable source of Richard Baker being a miller that I can find. Joyce's step-father John Harker (Hawker) was the miller of Ashford and as Richard Baker died when the Joyce was only 2 years old he would have been the only father she knew... Whilst various histories say Richard Baker was a miller there is no confirmation of this anywhere. Prior to living in Ashford Richard brought up his family in Stanford, Kent (11 miles from Ashford). Perhaps he married Margaret Merry there? No marriage has been found. I am still actively investigating Richard Baker. I'll let you know how I get on. As the the Merry family I have drawn a blank although there is a Christopher Merry at the Merchant Taylor school in London (deadly enemy of the Skinners' company - I was educated at the Skinners' school - this emnity stems from "at sixes and sevens") See https://www.merchant-taylors.co.uk/news/billesden-award
> Ursula Vanner was nee Rooke as is noted in her will 1634
>
> https://archive.org/stream/genealogist04lond/genealogist04lond_djvu.txt</p>
>
> <Will of Ursula Vanner, Widow, of Parish of S. George, Canterbury.
>
> Dated 5th Nov. 1632, and proved 1 6th June 1634.
>
> Amongst many charities, she leaves £50 to clothe 50 poor widows or women of
> S. George’s parish ; 40s to the poor of Monkshorton ; 40« to the poor of the Walloon
> or French Congregation ; and £5 to “the preacher that shall preach at my funerall.”
>
> She names, Brothers George, William, and John Rooke, and the wives of George,
> William and John Rooke ; nephews and niece Laurence, William and Mary,
> children of Brother George ; Sister Barton ; Brother and Sister Best ; Brother Taver-
> ner ; nephew Fyneux and niece Ursula Fyneux ; cosen Thomas Fineux and wife ;
> cosen John Best and his wife ; nephew George Best; and cosen Finch.
>
> Appoints overseers of will, Brother Francis Barton and Peter Pyard ; and Exor.,
> Brother George.
>
> In a codicil she names John, George, Laurence, and Anne, the children of her
> brother William Rooke, and Susan Rooke, his now wife.