https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2022/07/idaho-gop-abortion-life-of-mother
(it's not very long)

By Bess Levin.

Excerpts:

A frequent refrain from gaslighting conservatives in the weeks since Roe v. Wade was overturned goes something like this: “Abortion hasn’t been outlawed, the Supreme Court is just returning the decision to the states. Don’t be so hysterical.” While technically true, in practice, this argument is, of course, total bullshit. Abortion has now been restricted in roughly half the country, eight states banned the medical procedure the day Roe was struck down, and 13 states will forbid it within 30 days of the June 24 ruling. If someone tries to claim to you that the Court’s decision wasn’t that big a deal and/or doesn’t change much, you are legally obligated to inform them they have shit where their brain should be. If you can stand to breathe the same air as them for a moment longer, you should also inform them of the many ways the various states in question have proceeded to use the opportunity afforded to them by the Supreme Court to advocate for not only forced births, but the state-sanctioned murder of pregnant people.

Over the weekend, the Idaho Republican Party voted against adopting an amendment that would have added an exception to its official policy on abortion for cases to save the life of the mother. Scott Herndon, a Republican running unopposed for a state Senate seat, argued to delegates that “for the last 49 years we have essentially lost the argument in the culture because we have focused on abortion as the termination of a pregnancy and not the termination of a living human being.” He added: “We will never win this human rights issue, the greatest of our time, if we make allowances for the intentional killing of another human being.” Obviously, he did not note that withholding life-saving care from a pregnant person, knowing they could die, is also an intentional killing, because that would apparently require too much reflection on his part. The decision not to add an abortion exception to save the life of the mother was decided 412-164; as The Independent notes, the party platform “is used to direct policy within the state’s GOP-controlled legislature.”

....Elsewhere in reports of horrifying repercussions from the Supreme Court merely kicking the abortion question to the states, a woman bled for more than 10 days after suffering an incomplete miscarriage because a Wisconsin hospital wouldn’t perform the procedure; a woman with an ectopic pregnancy had to seek emergency, out-of-state care because a doctor in her home state was worried he’d run afoul of the law; administrators at a Kansas City, Missouri hospital temporarily required “pharmacist approval” before prescribing medications that stop postpartum hemorrhages—as in hemorrhages that occur after someone has given birth—because they are also sometimes used for abortions; and a 10-year-old rape victim in Ohio was told they must give birth to their rapist’s child or seek care elsewhere...

(snip)

In article <cbfd2100-015a-4f1e-9eef-d0d69ede994fn@googlegroups.com>,
Lenona <lenona321@yahoo.com> wrote:
>https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2022/07/idaho-gop-abortion-life-of-mother
> (it's not very long)
>
>By Bess Levin.
>
>Excerpts:

(Reformatted to be at least somewhat legible)

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2022/07/idaho-gop-abortion-life-of-mother

(it's not very long)

By Bess Levin.

Excerpts:

A frequent refrain from gaslighting conservatives in the weeks since Roe v. Wade was
overturned goes something like this: Abortion hasn't been outlawed, the Supreme Court
is just returning the decision to the states. Don't be so hysterical. While
technically true, in practice, this argument is, of course, total bullshit. Abortion
has now been restricted in roughly half the country, eight states banned the medical
procedure the day Roe was struck down, and 13 states will forbid it within 30 days of
the June 24 ruling. If someone tries to claim to you that the Court's decision wasn't
that big a deal and/or doesn't change much, you are legally obligated to inform them
they have shit where their brain should be. If you can stand to breathe the same air
as them for a moment longer, you should also inform them of the many ways the various
states in question have proceeded to use the opportunity afforded to them by the
Supreme Court to advocate for not only forced births, but the state-sanctioned murder
of pregnant people.

Over the weekend, the Idaho Republican Party voted against adopting an amendment that
would have added an exception to its official policy on abortion for cases to save
the life of the mother. Scott Herndon, a Republican running unopposed for a state
Senate seat, argued to delegates that for the last 49 years we have essentially lost
the argument in the culture because we have focused on abortion as the termination of
a pregnancy and not the termination of a living human being. He added: We will never
win this human rights issue, the greatest of our time, if we make allowances for the
intentional killing of another human being. Obviously, he did not note that
withholding life-saving care from a pregnant person, knowing they could die, is also
an intentional killing, because that would apparently require too much reflection on
his part. The decision not to add an abortion exception to save the life of the
mother was decided; as The Independent notes, the party platform is used to direct
policy within the state's GOP-controlled legislature.

....Elsewhere in reports of horrifying repercussions from the Supreme Court merely
kicking the abortion question to the states, a woman bled for more than 10 days after
suffering an incomplete miscarriage because a Wisconsin hospital wouldn't perform the
procedure; a woman with an ectopic pregnancy had to seek emergency, out-of-state care
because a doctor in her home state was worried he'd run afoul of the law;
administrators at a Kansas City, Missouri hospital temporarily required pharmacist
approval before prescribing medications that stop postpartum hemorrhages in
hemorrhages that occur after someone has given birth because they are also sometimes
used for abortions; and a 10-year-old rape victim in Ohio was told they must give
birth to their rapist's child or seek care elsewhere...

(snip)

--
"I have a simple philosophy. Fill what's empty. Empty what's full. And
scratch where it itches."

Alice Roosevelt Longworth

And here's page 4 of a thread started on June 24th:

http://www.refugees.bratfree.com/read.php?2,442737,page=4

Excerpts:

bell_flower:
"I would hope there are sane women left in the world...
What if the woman has other kids? Is it noble to die for a fetus and
leave your existing children without a mom? I cannot imagine any
thinking woman being okay with this, but there are plenty of morons."

(followed, on July 10th, by what could be in the cards for Pennsylvania in November)

Cambion
July 12, 2022
"I know I already mentioned how this whole shitshow affects women,
but how's about how it's going to affect all the children that are 'saved'
from the big bad abortion monster? Let us count the ways:

(this is very long, so I'll abbreviate it a bit)

- Hospitals being overwhelmed with high-risk births...

- LOADS more babies being born with fetal alcohol syndrome or addicted
to various substances...

- Far more children being born into poverty...

- Classes being HUGE...nobody will want to teach...

- The adoption/foster system becoming grossly overwhelmed...

- More babies being abandoned - thrown into rivers, dumpsters,
down trash chutes, into toilets, left on doorsteps, out in the woods,
or really anywhere a desperate woman can find to stash it and hope
it dies quietly. Along the same lines, I also foresee lots of women not
going to the hospital if they learn they are pregnant because they plan
to dispose of the resulting child and don't want anyone knowing they're
pregnant. Obviously this can lead to serious consequences if the
pregnancy takes a turn for the worst. I imagine we will see a slew of
nationwide obituaries for young women saying they "died unexpectedly."
No, they died very expectedly from the ectopic pregnancy that doctors
were not legally allowed to treat.

- A sharp uptick in the number of cases of child abuse, neglect and murder.
CPS can't keep up as it is...

- Increase in crime in 15-20 years...

- Loads of women dying from pregnancy-induced illnesses such as
pre-ecclampsia and hyperemesis gravidarum. I have heard plenty of stories
of women who have hyperemesis so badly that they can't even keep water
down, and not eating or drinking can not only harm the woman, but might
also harm the precious fetus that lawmakers want to save.

craftyzits July 12th:
"I expect that the suicide rate for women and girls will go through the roof..."

Cambion July 15th
https://www.healthcaredive.com/news/texas-sues-hhs-emergency-abortion-attorney-general/627361/

"The Attorney General of Texass is suing the Department of Health and
Human Services over their attempts to require hospitals to perform abortions
regardless of the ban in cases of medical emergencies such as miscarriages
and ectopic pregnancies.

"According to the attorney general, this is an attempt to exploit a federal law
to 'transform every emergency room in the country into a walk-in abortion
clinic.' I wish it could hurt to be this stupid.

"Yes because women choose to have septic miscarriages and ruptured fallopian
tubes for funsies. Though I wonder if this law could be exploited in good ways -
if abortions can be performed in emergency life-saving situations, could a woman
go to the ER and say either you abort this pregnancy or I will kill myself? Would
that make the abortion life-saving?

"I know plenty of people who work in hospitals are fuming over the abortion ban
and would likely be willing to see what loopholes could help a woman abort in a
state where it is otherwise banned."

nightfire July 17th:
"In their zeal to be extremely 'pro-life,' they'll end up killing more then they'll save.
If hospitals are so intimidated by these people and the threat of lawsuits that
they feel like they have to wait until the pregnant woman (or girl) is at death's
door, how many will die from a hospital's or doctor's reluctance? It's going to be a lot.

"Two for one deal on fatalities. Both mother and fetus die, not just fetus.

"It makes me think that this 'pro-life' thing is going to backfire on the people who
espouse it. Unlike many of the old timers that had pushed Roe, they were not
there to see what restricting or banning abortion could bring. Many people knew
(or know about) a woman or girl that had died from a botched abortion or had a
baby with a condition incompatible with life.

"Once women start dying, people will get angry. They won't be some stranger,
but wives, mothers, daughters, aunts, nieces and friends. Coworkers, that friendly
face at the counter, your horse riding instructor or a painter whose paintings you like.

"It's going to get ugly."

July 20th - link to the horrific story of the Louisiana woman who miscarried at 16
weeks, but whose doctor was forbidden to give her a D&E, so...

Finally, there's the story of the Walgreens cashier in Wisconsin who refused to
sell condoms to a MARRIED couple, wouldn't get another cashier to do it, and
made embarrassing remarks to the wife about "her reproductive choices."

I'm just a moderate laughing at everyone.
Both sides have gotten ridiculously extreme.
Maybe it's time to finally compromise?

On Sunday, July 24, 2022 at 8:44:55 PM UTC-4, Travoltron wrote:
> I'm just a moderate laughing at everyone.
> Both sides have gotten ridiculously extreme.
> Maybe it's time to finally compromise?

Many would say that those in favor of abortion rights
were ALREADY compromising, in a way - by lowering the
abortion rate over the last 30 years, primarily through
better use of contraception.

So maybe it's time for "pro-lifers" to live up to their name and
make it a lot EASIER for poor women in red states to get their
hands on safe, effective contraceptives?

Not to mention the need to work harder on fighting all the obstacles
that cause OTHER poor, single women to believe that reproduction
is the only thing they can hope to succeed at, in life? (How is it
"pro-life" to ignore the suffering of those women and their babies?)

And those who seriously believe that abortion is an
"industry" should remember that the people who could be
accused of making it an industry are those who want to
shame and obstruct ADULTS who want to use birth control.
Hint: that ain't Planned Parenthood. See my first paragraph.

On Sun, 24 Jul 2022 17:45:56 -0700, Travoltron <travoltron@defender.uni>
wrote:

>I'm just a moderate laughing at everyone.
>Both sides have gotten ridiculously extreme.
>Maybe it's time to finally compromise?

We finally have. Voters and legislators are now able to decide abortion
law on a state-by-state basis. That's the compromise.

David Carson
--
Dead or Alive Data Base
http://www.doadb.com

On Sunday, July 24, 2022 at 11:57:48 AM UTC-4, Lenona wrote:
>
> Finally, there's the story of the Walgreens cashier in Wisconsin who refused to
> sell condoms to a MARRIED couple, wouldn't get another cashier to do it, and
> made embarrassing remarks to the wife about "her reproductive choices."

Just found this:

https://www.reddit.com/r/childfree/comments/w9wz3o/it_was_true_contraceptives_are_what_they_are/

Excerpts:

Mystic_puddle
7 hr. ago
"Other people should start working there and try to deny people the ability to buy other things because of their "religious beliefs". Maybe if they refused to sell people beef, pork, anything that's not kosher, and everything else that's against someone's religion they'd finally realize how ridiculous this is."

goldieglocks81
6 hr. ago
"Or Viagra/Cialis. If pregnancy is 'god's will' so is limp dick."

ToastAbrikoos
5 hr. ago
"Sorry, Debra. This dress is a Poly-Blend and the bible says it is forbidden to wear garments of different types of fabric."

LiveChildFreeOrDie
1 hr. ago
"Just as forbidden as being gay in fact."
Tough-Exam-2711
1 hr. ago
"We have a law here in this state that only applies to being able to refuse to sell birth control. It’s not written as a religious freedom to deny products to people it’s specifically written about birth control. But I will raise holy hell at corporate if none of their employees on staff are mentally and physically capable of selling birth control to me."

(I wish that last one had more details.)

David Carson <davo@neosoft.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 24 Jul 2022 17:45:56 -0700, Travoltron <travoltron@defender.uni>
> wrote:
>
>>I'm just a moderate laughing at everyone.
>>Both sides have gotten ridiculously extreme.
>>Maybe it's time to finally compromise?
>
> We finally have. Voters and legislators are now able to decide abortion
> law on a state-by-state basis. That's the compromise.

Any woman who wants an abortion should be able to get it.
Letting some places prevent any woman from getting an abortion
is not compromise,it's a checkerboard of negative extremism
amid areas of greater tolerance...in a fashion in which a
house divided against itself can not stand,just as having some
slave states and some free states did not work.

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

In article <84f4610d-bd36-466f-bdd4-24eb13ddcce5n@googlegroups.com>,
Lenona <lenona321@yahoo.com> wrote:
>On Sunday, July 24, 2022 at 8:44:55 PM UTC-4, some rightwing lunatic wrote:
>> I'm just a moderate laughing at everyone.
>> Both sides have gotten ridiculously extreme.
>> Maybe it's time to finally compromise?

Only one side is "extreme". The other side is sensible.
And, no, you don't score any points for correctly identifying which side is
which.

Then Lenona wrote:
>Many would say that those in favor of abortion rights
>were ALREADY compromising, in a way - by lowering the
>abortion rate over the last 30 years, primarily through
>better use of contraception.

You have to understand that using contraception to reduce the number of
abortions is, in their point of view, cheating. It's merely substituting
one evil for another.

These people aren't merely anti-abortion. What they are is pro-natalist.
They want to maximize births at any cost - and being anti-contraception and
anti-gay are both parts of the strategy.

>So maybe it's time for "pro-lifers" to live up to their name and
>make it a lot EASIER for poor women in red states to get their
>hands on safe, effective contraceptives?
>
>Not to mention the need to work harder on fighting all the obstacles
>that cause OTHER poor, single women to believe that reproduction
>is the only thing they can hope to succeed at, in life? (How is it
>"pro-life" to ignore the suffering of those women and their babies?)

I think the following text, which I found on Quora, sums it up nicely:

(Question submitted by someone else on Quora)
Since outlawing abortions doesn't actually decrease their frequency and women
are willing to cross state lines and corporations are willing to help, what
was the purpose of outlawing abortion? How else do anti-choicers help
*babies*?
==========================================================================

(Answer by Shaun Mootoo)

You're missing the point. Everybody is. The GOP's draconian anti-abortion
laws have nothing to do with babies, or life, or religion, or anything like
that. They're meant to do THREE things:

1) Keep Black/Brown people poor, and churning out cheap labour and desperate
customers, spending their last pennies on basic survival (conservatives will
only be happy when the underclass can't sip a half-mouthful of semi-potable
water, or breathe a half-lungful of fetid air, without them making a profit)

2) Jail Black/Brown women for seeking abortions, or even contraception;
America's perfected jailing Black/Brown MEN: they're fucking GREAT at THAT,
but Black WOMEN have shown themselves to be the backbone of the Democratic
Party: sticking by them through thick & thin, and organizing TF out of them
(thank you, Stacey Abrams!); THAT has to be fucking stopped, dead in its
tracks!

3) Drive away educated, young, White people of breeding age. They tend
to know their rights, and fight for them, and tend also to vote Blue. If
they can be driven from Purple states, it prevents them turning Blue, and
could even turn them Red, again; the Texas GOP stated that, once Texas goes
Blue, the GOP will NEVER elect another POTUS, or hold sway in Congress: They
mean to see that never happens on THEIR watch. Through their rabid,
anti-abortion laws, the War on Drugs, the War on Poverty, the War on
Education, and their draconian immigration/refugee policies, they mean to
keep Black/Brown people - men AND now women - from organizing and voting.
Voter-suppression, voter-intimidation, Gerrymandering, and the EC, will do
the rest.

They're pieces of shit, masquerading as human beings, who have absolutely
nothing to offer, beyond their rabid compulsion to punch down, harming those
least able to defend themselves. Whenever there's a choice, between options
that help, those that do less harm to the helpless, and those that crucify
them, they always choose the last. The sooner they're pulled down from their
positions of power, in government, finance, and business, the better.

--
The randomly chosen signature file that would have appeared here is more than 4
lines long. As such, it violates one or more Usenet RFCs. In order to remain
in compliance with said RFCs, the actual sig can be found at the following URL:
http://user.xmission.com/~gazelle/Sigs/Snicker

Huh. I - and others here - have mentioned point #1 more than once, but somehow, I never thought of #2 and #3.

> 2) Jail Black/Brown women for seeking abortions, or even contraception;
> America's perfected jailing Black/Brown MEN: they're fucking GREAT at THAT,
> but Black WOMEN have shown themselves to be the backbone of the Democratic
> Party: sticking by them through thick & thin, and organizing TF out of them
> (thank you, Stacey Abrams!); THAT has to be fucking stopped, dead in its
> tracks!
>
> 3) Drive away educated, young, White people of breeding age. They tend
> to know their rights, and fight for them, and tend also to vote Blue. If
> they can be driven from Purple states, it prevents them turning Blue, and
> could even turn them Red, again; the Texas GOP stated that, once Texas goes
> Blue, the GOP will NEVER elect another POTUS, or hold sway in Congress: They
> mean to see that never happens on THEIR watch. Through their rabid,
> anti-abortion laws, the War on Drugs, the War on Poverty, the War on
> Education, and their draconian immigration/refugee policies, they mean to
> keep Black/Brown people - men AND now women - from organizing and voting.
> Voter-suppression, voter-intimidation, Gerrymandering, and the EC, will do
> the rest.

And, unfortunately, if there is such a thing as a race gap when it comes to the abortion debate, I haven't heard of it.

(Whereas everyone knows that there's a big race gap regarding Republicans vs. Democrats, but that's different.)

In other words, what is driving the non-white anti-abortionists to vote as they do?

Especially when no woman has an abortion for the fun of it - and the high rate of abortion in non-white communities would suggest that they tend to think of it as "the lesser evil"? (See my second post in this thread.)