"After more than two months of warfare, the Israeli Defence Forces (IDF) have done little to achieve their stated aims – the rescue of those captured by Hamas and the elimination of Hamas – by military means. Of the people – civilians and military – that Hamas had captured, the IDF has rescued one, and murdered three. Hamas claims others have died due to Israeli bombing and shelling, but this is impossible to verify.

In terms of eliminating Hamas, the Israelis claim that the kill ratio is two civilians to one military target, and that this is a good ratio. If this is true, then about 6,500 of the 20,000 killed in the Gaza Strip would have been military targets. If the upper limit of estimated Hamas personnel is taken to be 30,000, then it also means that the IDF is prepared to kill approximately another 70,000 people, of whom the vast majority will be civilians.

However, given that the IDF killed three of the people it was claiming to be rescuing, after they had stripped their shirt, scrawled SOS in Hebrew, and were waving a white flag, the IDF’s ability to distinguish between combatants and non-combatants is in doubt. Moreover, with about three IDF personnel being killed daily during military operations seems to indicate that neither the will to fight, nor the ability, of Hamas has been severely degraded.

The stated goals – the liberation of those captured, most of them civilians and many of them elderly or children, and the elimination of a militant group that wilfully murdered hundreds of civilians – were legitimate. But the way that Israel has prosecuted this war indicates either the IDF is entirely incompetent, or other unstated goals are taking precedence. Since October 7, the world has seen Israel killing thousands of civilians and taking hundreds more civilian captives. Israel may justify these actions as ‘retaliatory’, but the end result is a (much larger) replica of Hamas’ atrocities."

https://thewire.in/world/netanyahus-supremacist-war

On Friday, December 22, 2023 at 9:01:37 AM UTC-8, ltlee1 wrote:
> "After more than two months of warfare, the Israeli Defence Forces (IDF) have done little to achieve their stated aims – the rescue of those captured by Hamas and the elimination of Hamas – by military means.. Of the people – civilians and military – that Hamas had captured, the IDF has rescued one, and murdered three. Hamas claims others have died due to Israeli bombing and shelling, but this is impossible to verify.
>
> In terms of eliminating Hamas, the Israelis claim that the kill ratio is two civilians to one military target, and that this is a good ratio. If this is true, then about 6,500 of the 20,000 killed in the Gaza Strip would have been military targets. If the upper limit of estimated Hamas personnel is taken to be 30,000, then it also means that the IDF is prepared to kill approximately another 70,000 people, of whom the vast majority will be civilians.
>
> However, given that the IDF killed three of the people it was claiming to be rescuing, after they had stripped their shirt, scrawled SOS in Hebrew, and were waving a white flag, the IDF’s ability to distinguish between combatants and non-combatants is in doubt. Moreover, with about three IDF personnel being killed daily during military operations seems to indicate that neither the will to fight, nor the ability, of Hamas has been severely degraded.
>
> The stated goals – the liberation of those captured, most of them civilians and many of them elderly or children, and the elimination of a militant group that wilfully murdered hundreds of civilians – were legitimate. But the way that Israel has prosecuted this war indicates either the IDF is entirely incompetent, or other unstated goals are taking precedence. Since October 7, the world has seen Israel killing thousands of civilians and taking hundreds more civilian captives. Israel may justify these actions as ‘retaliatory’, but the end result is a (much larger) replica of Hamas’ atrocities."
>
> https://thewire.in/world/netanyahus-supremacist-war

The difference is that Israel is taking care of its people. Hamas takes money intended for Palestinian hospitals, schools and other infrastructure and uses it to build tunnels and store weapons under schools and hospitals.

On Saturday, December 23, 2023 at 12:29:02 AM UTC, bmoore wrote:
> On Friday, December 22, 2023 at 9:01:37 AM UTC-8, ltlee1 wrote:
> > "After more than two months of warfare, the Israeli Defence Forces (IDF) have done little to achieve their stated aims – the rescue of those captured by Hamas and the elimination of Hamas – by military means. Of the people – civilians and military – that Hamas had captured, the IDF has rescued one, and murdered three. Hamas claims others have died due to Israeli bombing and shelling, but this is impossible to verify.
> >
> > In terms of eliminating Hamas, the Israelis claim that the kill ratio is two civilians to one military target, and that this is a good ratio. If this is true, then about 6,500 of the 20,000 killed in the Gaza Strip would have been military targets. If the upper limit of estimated Hamas personnel is taken to be 30,000, then it also means that the IDF is prepared to kill approximately another 70,000 people, of whom the vast majority will be civilians.
> >
> > However, given that the IDF killed three of the people it was claiming to be rescuing, after they had stripped their shirt, scrawled SOS in Hebrew, and were waving a white flag, the IDF’s ability to distinguish between combatants and non-combatants is in doubt. Moreover, with about three IDF personnel being killed daily during military operations seems to indicate that neither the will to fight, nor the ability, of Hamas has been severely degraded.
> >
> > The stated goals – the liberation of those captured, most of them civilians and many of them elderly or children, and the elimination of a militant group that wilfully murdered hundreds of civilians – were legitimate. But the way that Israel has prosecuted this war indicates either the IDF is entirely incompetent, or other unstated goals are taking precedence. Since October 7, the world has seen Israel killing thousands of civilians and taking hundreds more civilian captives. Israel may justify these actions as ‘retaliatory’, but the end result is a (much larger) replica of Hamas’ atrocities."
> >
> > https://thewire.in/world/netanyahus-supremacist-war
> The difference is that Israel is taking care of its people. Hamas takes money intended for Palestinian hospitals, schools and other infrastructure and uses it to build tunnels and store weapons under schools and hospitals.

Israel has blockaded Gaza for 16 years, forcefully taking more and more West Bank land,
killing tens of thousands of Palestinians whenever possible. It is trying to hard making enemy
with the Arabs.

Is Israel taking care of its people long term?

On Sunday, December 24, 2023 at 1:14:36 PM UTC-8, ltlee1 wrote:
> On Saturday, December 23, 2023 at 12:29:02 AM UTC, bmoore wrote:
> > On Friday, December 22, 2023 at 9:01:37 AM UTC-8, ltlee1 wrote:
> > > "After more than two months of warfare, the Israeli Defence Forces (IDF) have done little to achieve their stated aims – the rescue of those captured by Hamas and the elimination of Hamas – by military means. Of the people – civilians and military – that Hamas had captured, the IDF has rescued one, and murdered three. Hamas claims others have died due to Israeli bombing and shelling, but this is impossible to verify.
> > >
> > > In terms of eliminating Hamas, the Israelis claim that the kill ratio is two civilians to one military target, and that this is a good ratio. If this is true, then about 6,500 of the 20,000 killed in the Gaza Strip would have been military targets. If the upper limit of estimated Hamas personnel is taken to be 30,000, then it also means that the IDF is prepared to kill approximately another 70,000 people, of whom the vast majority will be civilians.
> > >
> > > However, given that the IDF killed three of the people it was claiming to be rescuing, after they had stripped their shirt, scrawled SOS in Hebrew, and were waving a white flag, the IDF’s ability to distinguish between combatants and non-combatants is in doubt. Moreover, with about three IDF personnel being killed daily during military operations seems to indicate that neither the will to fight, nor the ability, of Hamas has been severely degraded.
> > >
> > > The stated goals – the liberation of those captured, most of them civilians and many of them elderly or children, and the elimination of a militant group that wilfully murdered hundreds of civilians – were legitimate. But the way that Israel has prosecuted this war indicates either the IDF is entirely incompetent, or other unstated goals are taking precedence. Since October 7, the world has seen Israel killing thousands of civilians and taking hundreds more civilian captives. Israel may justify these actions as ‘retaliatory’, but the end result is a (much larger) replica of Hamas’ atrocities."
> > >
> > > https://thewire.in/world/netanyahus-supremacist-war
> > The difference is that Israel is taking care of its people. Hamas takes money intended for Palestinian hospitals, schools and other infrastructure and uses it to build tunnels and store weapons under schools and hospitals..
> Israel has blockaded Gaza for 16 years, forcefully taking more and more West Bank land,
> killing tens of thousands of Palestinians whenever possible. It is trying to hard making enemy
> with the Arabs.
>
> Is Israel taking care of its people long term?

Obviously the history hasn't been researched properly by some netters. No matter what concessions have been made by Israel, Hamas continues to attempt to destroy the Israeli state.

On Tuesday, December 26, 2023 at 7:12:13 AM UTC, bmoore wrote:
> On Sunday, December 24, 2023 at 1:14:36 PM UTC-8, ltlee1 wrote:
> > On Saturday, December 23, 2023 at 12:29:02 AM UTC, bmoore wrote:
> > > On Friday, December 22, 2023 at 9:01:37 AM UTC-8, ltlee1 wrote:
> > > > "After more than two months of warfare, the Israeli Defence Forces (IDF) have done little to achieve their stated aims – the rescue of those captured by Hamas and the elimination of Hamas – by military means. Of the people – civilians and military – that Hamas had captured, the IDF has rescued one, and murdered three. Hamas claims others have died due to Israeli bombing and shelling, but this is impossible to verify.
> > > >
> > > > In terms of eliminating Hamas, the Israelis claim that the kill ratio is two civilians to one military target, and that this is a good ratio. If this is true, then about 6,500 of the 20,000 killed in the Gaza Strip would have been military targets. If the upper limit of estimated Hamas personnel is taken to be 30,000, then it also means that the IDF is prepared to kill approximately another 70,000 people, of whom the vast majority will be civilians.
> > > >
> > > > However, given that the IDF killed three of the people it was claiming to be rescuing, after they had stripped their shirt, scrawled SOS in Hebrew, and were waving a white flag, the IDF’s ability to distinguish between combatants and non-combatants is in doubt. Moreover, with about three IDF personnel being killed daily during military operations seems to indicate that neither the will to fight, nor the ability, of Hamas has been severely degraded.
> > > >
> > > > The stated goals – the liberation of those captured, most of them civilians and many of them elderly or children, and the elimination of a militant group that wilfully murdered hundreds of civilians – were legitimate. But the way that Israel has prosecuted this war indicates either the IDF is entirely incompetent, or other unstated goals are taking precedence. Since October 7, the world has seen Israel killing thousands of civilians and taking hundreds more civilian captives. Israel may justify these actions as ‘retaliatory’, but the end result is a (much larger) replica of Hamas’ atrocities."
> > > >
> > > > https://thewire.in/world/netanyahus-supremacist-war
> > > The difference is that Israel is taking care of its people. Hamas takes money intended for Palestinian hospitals, schools and other infrastructure and uses it to build tunnels and store weapons under schools and hospitals.
> > Israel has blockaded Gaza for 16 years, forcefully taking more and more West Bank land,
> > killing tens of thousands of Palestinians whenever possible. It is trying to hard making enemy
> > with the Arabs.
> >
> > Is Israel taking care of its people long term?
> Obviously the history hasn't been researched properly by some netters. No matter what concessions have been made by Israel, Hamas continues to attempt to destroy the Israeli state.

One People want to attack other people. One nation wants to attack other nation.
Nothing new. Else no nation will need any military. And spend tons of money buying
weapons. However, defense is one thing. Killing tens of thousands of civilian is a
different story.

Feel free you imagine you are the only person who has SENSE OF JUSTICE
and such SENSE OF JUSTICE has forced to agree to the massive killing of the innocent
Palestinians.

ltlee1 wrote:
> [ . . . . . ] Israel may justify these actions as ‘retaliatory’, but the end result is a (much larger) replica of Hamas’ atrocities."
---------------------
20 years ago, the inner city gangs in the U.S. were saying
that the U.S. Government is the "biggest gang of them all"!
....(which is true in every country, lol)
--
--

On Tuesday, December 26, 2023 at 12:38:51 PM UTC-8, ltlee1 wrote:
> Feel free you imagine you are the only person who has SENSE OF JUSTICE
> and such SENSE OF JUSTICE has forced to agree to the massive killing of the innocent
> Palestinians.

I noted that you would not in any way criticize Hamas for the brutal 10/7, which so far is TRUE. In response you claim that I support Israel's heavy handed response, which I don't. I have REPEATEDLY that I don't support Israel's tactics. Why do you keep saying I do?

On Wednesday, December 27, 2023 at 9:40:15 PM UTC, bmoore wrote:
> On Tuesday, December 26, 2023 at 12:38:51 PM UTC-8, ltlee1 wrote:
> > Feel free you imagine you are the only person who has SENSE OF JUSTICE
> > and such SENSE OF JUSTICE has forced to agree to the massive killing of the innocent
> > Palestinians.
> I noted that you would not in any way criticize Hamas for the brutal 10/7, which so far is TRUE. In response you claim that I support Israel's heavy handed response, which I don't. I have REPEATEDLY that I don't support Israel's tactics. Why do you keep saying I do?

Please read the title of this thread. "Israel ...is a (much larger) replica of Hamas"
IF Hamas is good, Israel is much better.
IF Hamas is bad, Israel is a lot worse. That is all.

On Thursday, December 28, 2023 at 4:55:10 AM UTC-8, ltlee1 wrote:
> On Wednesday, December 27, 2023 at 9:40:15 PM UTC, bmoore wrote:
> > On Tuesday, December 26, 2023 at 12:38:51 PM UTC-8, ltlee1 wrote:
> > > Feel free you imagine you are the only person who has SENSE OF JUSTICE
> > > and such SENSE OF JUSTICE has forced to agree to the massive killing of the innocent
> > > Palestinians.
> > I noted that you would not in any way criticize Hamas for the brutal 10/7, which so far is TRUE. In response you claim that I support Israel's heavy handed response, which I don't. I have REPEATEDLY that I don't support Israel's tactics. Why do you keep saying I do?
> Please read the title of this thread. "Israel ...is a (much larger) replica of Hamas"
> IF Hamas is good, Israel is much better.
> IF Hamas is bad, Israel is a lot worse. That is all.

Wasn't I accused of "agree to the massive killing of the innocent Palestinians"?

If not, thanks for the retraction. It's a very offensive accusation with no basis in fact.

On Friday, December 29, 2023 at 1:01:45 AM UTC, bmoore wrote:
> On Thursday, December 28, 2023 at 4:55:10 AM UTC-8, ltlee1 wrote:
> > On Wednesday, December 27, 2023 at 9:40:15 PM UTC, bmoore wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, December 26, 2023 at 12:38:51 PM UTC-8, ltlee1 wrote:
> > > > Feel free you imagine you are the only person who has SENSE OF JUSTICE
> > > > and such SENSE OF JUSTICE has forced to agree to the massive killing of the innocent
> > > > Palestinians.
> > > I noted that you would not in any way criticize Hamas for the brutal 10/7, which so far is TRUE. In response you claim that I support Israel's heavy handed response, which I don't. I have REPEATEDLY that I don't support Israel's tactics. Why do you keep saying I do?
> > Please read the title of this thread. "Israel ...is a (much larger) replica of Hamas"
> > IF Hamas is good, Israel is much better.
> > IF Hamas is bad, Israel is a lot worse. That is all.
> Wasn't I accused of "agree to the massive killing of the innocent Palestinians"?
>
> If not, thanks for the retraction. It's a very offensive accusation with no basis in fact.

What is to retract?
"Feel free..." is expressing it is your freedom. Not an accusation.

On Thursday, December 28, 2023 at 6:10:03 PM UTC-8, ltlee1 wrote:
> On Friday, December 29, 2023 at 1:01:45 AM UTC, bmoore wrote:
> > On Thursday, December 28, 2023 at 4:55:10 AM UTC-8, ltlee1 wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, December 27, 2023 at 9:40:15 PM UTC, bmoore wrote:
> > > > On Tuesday, December 26, 2023 at 12:38:51 PM UTC-8, ltlee1 wrote:
> > > > > Feel free you imagine you are the only person who has SENSE OF JUSTICE
> > > > > and such SENSE OF JUSTICE has forced to agree to the massive killing of the innocent
> > > > > Palestinians.
> > > > I noted that you would not in any way criticize Hamas for the brutal 10/7, which so far is TRUE. In response you claim that I support Israel's heavy handed response, which I don't. I have REPEATEDLY that I don't support Israel's tactics. Why do you keep saying I do?
> > > Please read the title of this thread. "Israel ...is a (much larger) replica of Hamas"
> > > IF Hamas is good, Israel is much better.
> > > IF Hamas is bad, Israel is a lot worse. That is all.
> > Wasn't I accused of "agree to the massive killing of the innocent Palestinians"?
> >
> > If not, thanks for the retraction. It's a very offensive accusation with no basis in fact.
> What is to retract?
> "Feel free..." is expressing it is your freedom. Not an accusation.

The way it was phrased, of course it is an accusation. My goodness, so disingenuous. Typical.

On Friday, December 29, 2023 at 6:38:23 AM UTC, bmoore wrote:
> On Thursday, December 28, 2023 at 6:10:03 PM UTC-8, ltlee1 wrote:
> > On Friday, December 29, 2023 at 1:01:45 AM UTC, bmoore wrote:
> > > On Thursday, December 28, 2023 at 4:55:10 AM UTC-8, ltlee1 wrote:
> > > > On Wednesday, December 27, 2023 at 9:40:15 PM UTC, bmoore wrote:
> > > > > On Tuesday, December 26, 2023 at 12:38:51 PM UTC-8, ltlee1 wrote:
> > > > > > Feel free you imagine you are the only person who has SENSE OF JUSTICE
> > > > > > and such SENSE OF JUSTICE has forced to agree to the massive killing of the innocent
> > > > > > Palestinians.
> > > > > I noted that you would not in any way criticize Hamas for the brutal 10/7, which so far is TRUE. In response you claim that I support Israel's heavy handed response, which I don't. I have REPEATEDLY that I don't support Israel's tactics. Why do you keep saying I do?
> > > > Please read the title of this thread. "Israel ...is a (much larger) replica of Hamas"
> > > > IF Hamas is good, Israel is much better.
> > > > IF Hamas is bad, Israel is a lot worse. That is all.
> > > Wasn't I accused of "agree to the massive killing of the innocent Palestinians"?
> > >
> > > If not, thanks for the retraction. It's a very offensive accusation with no basis in fact.
> > What is to retract?
> > "Feel free..." is expressing it is your freedom. Not an accusation.
> The way it was phrased, of course it is an accusation. My goodness, so disingenuous. Typical.

Why would I accuse anyone?
I don't know you or another poster except the user name. I don't even know whether there is a
human or a bot behind the name. I gain nothing by accusing anyone here for anything.

But of course, it is still your freedom to reach for illogical conclusion.

On Friday, December 29, 2023 at 6:09:31 AM UTC-8, ltlee1 wrote:
> On Friday, December 29, 2023 at 6:38:23 AM UTC, bmoore wrote:
> > On Thursday, December 28, 2023 at 6:10:03 PM UTC-8, ltlee1 wrote:
> > > On Friday, December 29, 2023 at 1:01:45 AM UTC, bmoore wrote:
> > > > On Thursday, December 28, 2023 at 4:55:10 AM UTC-8, ltlee1 wrote:
> > > > > On Wednesday, December 27, 2023 at 9:40:15 PM UTC, bmoore wrote:
> > > > > > On Tuesday, December 26, 2023 at 12:38:51 PM UTC-8, ltlee1 wrote:
> > > > > > > Feel free you imagine you are the only person who has SENSE OF JUSTICE
> > > > > > > and such SENSE OF JUSTICE has forced to agree to the massive killing of the innocent
> > > > > > > Palestinians.
> > > > > > I noted that you would not in any way criticize Hamas for the brutal 10/7, which so far is TRUE. In response you claim that I support Israel's heavy handed response, which I don't. I have REPEATEDLY that I don't support Israel's tactics. Why do you keep saying I do?
> > > > > Please read the title of this thread. "Israel ...is a (much larger) replica of Hamas"
> > > > > IF Hamas is good, Israel is much better.
> > > > > IF Hamas is bad, Israel is a lot worse. That is all.
> > > > Wasn't I accused of "agree to the massive killing of the innocent Palestinians"?
> > > >
> > > > If not, thanks for the retraction. It's a very offensive accusation with no basis in fact.
> > > What is to retract?
> > > "Feel free..." is expressing it is your freedom. Not an accusation.
> > The way it was phrased, of course it is an accusation. My goodness, so disingenuous. Typical.
> Why would I accuse anyone?
> I don't know you or another poster except the user name. I don't even know whether there is a
> human or a bot behind the name. I gain nothing by accusing anyone here for anything.
>
> But of course, it is still your freedom to reach for illogical conclusion..

"the end result is a (much larger) replica of Hamas’ atrocities" does not have the same meaning as "Israel ...is a (much larger) replica of Hamas"

On Friday, December 29, 2023 at 3:52:37 PM UTC, bmoore wrote:
> On Friday, December 29, 2023 at 6:09:31 AM UTC-8, ltlee1 wrote:
> > On Friday, December 29, 2023 at 6:38:23 AM UTC, bmoore wrote:
> > > On Thursday, December 28, 2023 at 6:10:03 PM UTC-8, ltlee1 wrote:
> > > > On Friday, December 29, 2023 at 1:01:45 AM UTC, bmoore wrote:
> > > > > On Thursday, December 28, 2023 at 4:55:10 AM UTC-8, ltlee1 wrote:
> > > > > > On Wednesday, December 27, 2023 at 9:40:15 PM UTC, bmoore wrote:
> > > > > > > On Tuesday, December 26, 2023 at 12:38:51 PM UTC-8, ltlee1 wrote:
> > > > > > > > Feel free you imagine you are the only person who has SENSE OF JUSTICE
> > > > > > > > and such SENSE OF JUSTICE has forced to agree to the massive killing of the innocent
> > > > > > > > Palestinians.
> > > > > > > I noted that you would not in any way criticize Hamas for the brutal 10/7, which so far is TRUE. In response you claim that I support Israel's heavy handed response, which I don't. I have REPEATEDLY that I don't support Israel's tactics. Why do you keep saying I do?
> > > > > > Please read the title of this thread. "Israel ...is a (much larger) replica of Hamas"
> > > > > > IF Hamas is good, Israel is much better.
> > > > > > IF Hamas is bad, Israel is a lot worse. That is all.
> > > > > Wasn't I accused of "agree to the massive killing of the innocent Palestinians"?
> > > > >
> > > > > If not, thanks for the retraction. It's a very offensive accusation with no basis in fact.
> > > > What is to retract?
> > > > "Feel free..." is expressing it is your freedom. Not an accusation.
> > > The way it was phrased, of course it is an accusation. My goodness, so disingenuous. Typical.
> > Why would I accuse anyone?
> > I don't know you or another poster except the user name. I don't even know whether there is a
> > human or a bot behind the name. I gain nothing by accusing anyone here for anything.
> >
> > But of course, it is still your freedom to reach for illogical conclusion.
> "the end result is a (much larger) replica of Hamas’ atrocities" does not have the same meaning as "Israel ...is a (much larger) replica of Hamas"

Great.
Please give your objective criteria what make Hamas uniquely bad besides people killed.
Please don't use terms like terrorist because it is a matter of subjective view point.
BTW, Isreal government has the ability to blockade Gaza for 16 years while Hamas
no ability to blockade Israel.

On Sunday, December 31, 2023 at 3:20:14 PM UTC-8, ltlee1 wrote:
> On Friday, December 29, 2023 at 3:52:37 PM UTC, bmoore wrote:
> > On Friday, December 29, 2023 at 6:09:31 AM UTC-8, ltlee1 wrote:
> > > On Friday, December 29, 2023 at 6:38:23 AM UTC, bmoore wrote:
> > > > On Thursday, December 28, 2023 at 6:10:03 PM UTC-8, ltlee1 wrote:
> > > > > On Friday, December 29, 2023 at 1:01:45 AM UTC, bmoore wrote:
> > > > > > On Thursday, December 28, 2023 at 4:55:10 AM UTC-8, ltlee1 wrote:
> > > > > > > On Wednesday, December 27, 2023 at 9:40:15 PM UTC, bmoore wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Tuesday, December 26, 2023 at 12:38:51 PM UTC-8, ltlee1 wrote:
> > > > > > > > > Feel free you imagine you are the only person who has SENSE OF JUSTICE
> > > > > > > > > and such SENSE OF JUSTICE has forced to agree to the massive killing of the innocent
> > > > > > > > > Palestinians.
> > > > > > > > I noted that you would not in any way criticize Hamas for the brutal 10/7, which so far is TRUE. In response you claim that I support Israel's heavy handed response, which I don't. I have REPEATEDLY that I don't support Israel's tactics. Why do you keep saying I do?
> > > > > > > Please read the title of this thread. "Israel ...is a (much larger) replica of Hamas"
> > > > > > > IF Hamas is good, Israel is much better.
> > > > > > > IF Hamas is bad, Israel is a lot worse. That is all.
> > > > > > Wasn't I accused of "agree to the massive killing of the innocent Palestinians"?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If not, thanks for the retraction. It's a very offensive accusation with no basis in fact.
> > > > > What is to retract?
> > > > > "Feel free..." is expressing it is your freedom. Not an accusation.
> > > > The way it was phrased, of course it is an accusation. My goodness, so disingenuous. Typical.
> > > Why would I accuse anyone?
> > > I don't know you or another poster except the user name. I don't even know whether there is a
> > > human or a bot behind the name. I gain nothing by accusing anyone here for anything.
> > >
> > > But of course, it is still your freedom to reach for illogical conclusion.
> > "the end result is a (much larger) replica of Hamas’ atrocities" does not have the same meaning as "Israel ...is a (much larger) replica of Hamas"
> Great.
> Please give your objective criteria what make Hamas uniquely bad besides people killed.

Hamas wants to destroy Israel.

> Please don't use terms like terrorist because it is a matter of subjective view point.
> BTW, Isreal government has the ability to blockade Gaza for 16 years while Hamas
> no ability to blockade Israel.

Israel allowed the people of Gaza to come and work in Israel for many years.. They only initiated the blockade because Hamas was sending in suicide bombers.

On Wednesday, January 3, 2024 at 1:15:50 PM UTC-5, bmoore wrote:
> On Sunday, December 31, 2023 at 3:20:14 PM UTC-8, ltlee1 wrote:
> > On Friday, December 29, 2023 at 3:52:37 PM UTC, bmoore wrote:
> > > On Friday, December 29, 2023 at 6:09:31 AM UTC-8, ltlee1 wrote:
> > > > On Friday, December 29, 2023 at 6:38:23 AM UTC, bmoore wrote:
> > > > > On Thursday, December 28, 2023 at 6:10:03 PM UTC-8, ltlee1 wrote:
> > > > > > On Friday, December 29, 2023 at 1:01:45 AM UTC, bmoore wrote:
> > > > > > > On Thursday, December 28, 2023 at 4:55:10 AM UTC-8, ltlee1 wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Wednesday, December 27, 2023 at 9:40:15 PM UTC, bmoore wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On Tuesday, December 26, 2023 at 12:38:51 PM UTC-8, ltlee1 wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > Feel free you imagine you are the only person who has SENSE OF JUSTICE
> > > > > > > > > > and such SENSE OF JUSTICE has forced to agree to the massive killing of the innocent
> > > > > > > > > > Palestinians.
> > > > > > > > > I noted that you would not in any way criticize Hamas for the brutal 10/7, which so far is TRUE. In response you claim that I support Israel's heavy handed response, which I don't. I have REPEATEDLY that I don't support Israel's tactics. Why do you keep saying I do?
> > > > > > > > Please read the title of this thread. "Israel ...is a (much larger) replica of Hamas"
> > > > > > > > IF Hamas is good, Israel is much better.
> > > > > > > > IF Hamas is bad, Israel is a lot worse. That is all.
> > > > > > > Wasn't I accused of "agree to the massive killing of the innocent Palestinians"?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If not, thanks for the retraction. It's a very offensive accusation with no basis in fact.
> > > > > > What is to retract?
> > > > > > "Feel free..." is expressing it is your freedom. Not an accusation.
> > > > > The way it was phrased, of course it is an accusation. My goodness, so disingenuous. Typical.
> > > > Why would I accuse anyone?
> > > > I don't know you or another poster except the user name. I don't even know whether there is a
> > > > human or a bot behind the name. I gain nothing by accusing anyone here for anything.
> > > >
> > > > But of course, it is still your freedom to reach for illogical conclusion.
> > > "the end result is a (much larger) replica of Hamas’ atrocities" does not have the same meaning as "Israel ...is a (much larger) replica of Hamas"
> > Great.
> > Please give your objective criteria what make Hamas uniquely bad besides people killed.

> Hamas wants to destroy Israel.

Don't know what you means.
Are you sure you are not assigning an bad to Israel but currently unrealistic goal to Hamas?

> > Please don't use terms like terrorist because it is a matter of subjective view point.
> > BTW, Isreal government has the ability to blockade Gaza for 16 years while Hamas
> > no ability to blockade Israel.
> Israel allowed the people of Gaza to come and work in Israel for many years. They only
initiated the blockade because Hamas was sending in suicide bombers.

Again, on account of killing civilians, Israel had killed Palestinians a lot more than suicide bombers
had killed Jews.
Are you insisting that Israel 16 years of blockade making Gaza the world’s largest open-air prison
is treating Palestinians justly?

In case you don't know what was going on in Gaza, try the following,
https://www.npr.org/2023/11/04/1210645265/gaza-is-called-an-open-air-prison-how-did-it-get-to-this

"MUSTAFA: Gaza wasn't always the Gaza that we have today. Gaza was actually, pre-1948, quite a large territory within Mandatory Palestine. So it was something like 38 times the size that it is today. And at that time, Gaza was very, very wealthy in terms of being a coastal enclave, in terms of trade, in terms of the fertility of the land. And then after 1948, you had the occupation of many of its towns and villages. And so it got confined to a very small strip that we know today. And at that time, it had been occupied by Egypt during the Arab-Israeli War, and then after 1967, came under Israeli military rule when Israel occupied both Gaza and the West Bank. And then in 1993, we see the Oslo Accords, where both Gaza and the West Bank was to be part of what was then considered the start of a Palestinian state in the making. Unfortunately, at that time, you still had these territories under Israeli military occupation.
....
MUSTAFA: Israel has done quite a lot to ensure the de-development of Gaza, not only Gaza, but also the West Bank, you know, in terms of restricting the ability of investments, control over Gaza's own resources. We've just discovered that Gaza actually has reserves of oil and gas, which, again, Israel is now preventing them full access over, including their own water resources, which Israel fully controls. And that's no different to what is being experienced in the West Bank as well, where you can say that, you know, Palestinians supposedly have the Palestinian Authority. They're not under a de facto government that's considered a terrorist entity. But yet you're having similar issues within the West Bank, where, again, Palestinians don't control their own resources. They're not in control of their own movement of goods and people. What kinds of investments can go in and out is entirely determined by what Israel will allow in and out. And so ultimately, you know, Israel has done a lot to ensure that the occupied territories do remain de-developed."

On Wednesday, January 3, 2024 at 5:04:15 PM UTC-8, ltlee1 wrote:
> On Wednesday, January 3, 2024 at 1:15:50 PM UTC-5, bmoore wrote:
> > On Sunday, December 31, 2023 at 3:20:14 PM UTC-8, ltlee1 wrote:
> > > On Friday, December 29, 2023 at 3:52:37 PM UTC, bmoore wrote:
> > > > On Friday, December 29, 2023 at 6:09:31 AM UTC-8, ltlee1 wrote:
> > > > > On Friday, December 29, 2023 at 6:38:23 AM UTC, bmoore wrote:
> > > > > > On Thursday, December 28, 2023 at 6:10:03 PM UTC-8, ltlee1 wrote:
> > > > > > > On Friday, December 29, 2023 at 1:01:45 AM UTC, bmoore wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Thursday, December 28, 2023 at 4:55:10 AM UTC-8, ltlee1 wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On Wednesday, December 27, 2023 at 9:40:15 PM UTC, bmoore wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > On Tuesday, December 26, 2023 at 12:38:51 PM UTC-8, ltlee1 wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > Feel free you imagine you are the only person who has SENSE OF JUSTICE
> > > > > > > > > > > and such SENSE OF JUSTICE has forced to agree to the massive killing of the innocent
> > > > > > > > > > > Palestinians.
> > > > > > > > > > I noted that you would not in any way criticize Hamas for the brutal 10/7, which so far is TRUE. In response you claim that I support Israel's heavy handed response, which I don't. I have REPEATEDLY that I don't support Israel's tactics. Why do you keep saying I do?
> > > > > > > > > Please read the title of this thread. "Israel ...is a (much larger) replica of Hamas"
> > > > > > > > > IF Hamas is good, Israel is much better.
> > > > > > > > > IF Hamas is bad, Israel is a lot worse. That is all.
> > > > > > > > Wasn't I accused of "agree to the massive killing of the innocent Palestinians"?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > If not, thanks for the retraction. It's a very offensive accusation with no basis in fact.
> > > > > > > What is to retract?
> > > > > > > "Feel free..." is expressing it is your freedom. Not an accusation.
> > > > > > The way it was phrased, of course it is an accusation. My goodness, so disingenuous. Typical.
> > > > > Why would I accuse anyone?
> > > > > I don't know you or another poster except the user name. I don't even know whether there is a
> > > > > human or a bot behind the name. I gain nothing by accusing anyone here for anything.
> > > > >
> > > > > But of course, it is still your freedom to reach for illogical conclusion.
> > > > "the end result is a (much larger) replica of Hamas’ atrocities" does not have the same meaning as "Israel ...is a (much larger) replica of Hamas"
> > > Great.
> > > Please give your objective criteria what make Hamas uniquely bad besides people killed.
>
> > Hamas wants to destroy Israel.
> Don't know what you means.

You're dodging.

> Are you sure you are not assigning an bad to Israel but currently unrealistic goal to Hamas?
> > > Please don't use terms like terrorist because it is a matter of subjective view point.
> > > BTW, Isreal government has the ability to blockade Gaza for 16 years while Hamas
> > > no ability to blockade Israel.
> > Israel allowed the people of Gaza to come and work in Israel for many years. They only
> initiated the blockade because Hamas was sending in suicide bombers.
> Again, on account of killing civilians, Israel had killed Palestinians a lot more than suicide bombers
> had killed Jews.
> Are you insisting that Israel 16 years of blockade making Gaza the world’s largest open-air prison
> is treating Palestinians justly?
>
> In case you don't know what was going on in Gaza, try the following,
> https://www.npr.org/2023/11/04/1210645265/gaza-is-called-an-open-air-prison-how-did-it-get-to-this
>
> "MUSTAFA: Gaza wasn't always the Gaza that we have today. Gaza was actually, pre-1948, quite a large territory within Mandatory Palestine. So it was something like 38 times the size that it is today. And at that time, Gaza was very, very wealthy in terms of being a coastal enclave, in terms of trade, in terms of the fertility of the land. And then after 1948, you had the occupation of many of its towns and villages. And so it got confined to a very small strip that we know today. And at that time, it had been occupied by Egypt during the Arab-Israeli War, and then after 1967, came under Israeli military rule when Israel occupied both Gaza and the West Bank. And then in 1993, we see the Oslo Accords, where both Gaza and the West Bank was to be part of what was then considered the start of a Palestinian state in the making. Unfortunately, at that time, you still had these territories under Israeli military occupation.
> ...
> MUSTAFA: Israel has done quite a lot to ensure the de-development of Gaza, not only Gaza, but also the West Bank, you know, in terms of restricting the ability of investments, control over Gaza's own resources. We've just discovered that Gaza actually has reserves of oil and gas, which, again, Israel is now preventing them full access over, including their own water resources, which Israel fully controls. And that's no different to what is being experienced in the West Bank as well, where you can say that, you know, Palestinians supposedly have the Palestinian Authority. They're not under a de facto government that's considered a terrorist entity. But yet you're having similar issues within the West Bank, where, again, Palestinians don't control their own resources. They're not in control of their own movement of goods and people. What kinds of investments can go in and out is entirely determined by what Israel will allow in and out. And so ultimately, you know, Israel has done a lot to ensure that the occupied territories do remain de-developed."

On Thursday, January 4, 2024 at 4:10:51 PM UTC, bmoore wrote:
> On Wednesday, January 3, 2024 at 5:04:15 PM UTC-8, ltlee1 wrote:
> > On Wednesday, January 3, 2024 at 1:15:50 PM UTC-5, bmoore wrote:
> > > On Sunday, December 31, 2023 at 3:20:14 PM UTC-8, ltlee1 wrote:
> > > > On Friday, December 29, 2023 at 3:52:37 PM UTC, bmoore wrote:
> > > > > On Friday, December 29, 2023 at 6:09:31 AM UTC-8, ltlee1 wrote:
> > > > > > On Friday, December 29, 2023 at 6:38:23 AM UTC, bmoore wrote:
> > > > > > > On Thursday, December 28, 2023 at 6:10:03 PM UTC-8, ltlee1 wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Friday, December 29, 2023 at 1:01:45 AM UTC, bmoore wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On Thursday, December 28, 2023 at 4:55:10 AM UTC-8, ltlee1 wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > On Wednesday, December 27, 2023 at 9:40:15 PM UTC, bmoore wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > On Tuesday, December 26, 2023 at 12:38:51 PM UTC-8, ltlee1 wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > Feel free you imagine you are the only person who has SENSE OF JUSTICE
> > > > > > > > > > > > and such SENSE OF JUSTICE has forced to agree to the massive killing of the innocent
> > > > > > > > > > > > Palestinians.
> > > > > > > > > > > I noted that you would not in any way criticize Hamas for the brutal 10/7, which so far is TRUE. In response you claim that I support Israel's heavy handed response, which I don't. I have REPEATEDLY that I don't support Israel's tactics. Why do you keep saying I do?
> > > > > > > > > > Please read the title of this thread. "Israel ...is a (much larger) replica of Hamas"
> > > > > > > > > > IF Hamas is good, Israel is much better.
> > > > > > > > > > IF Hamas is bad, Israel is a lot worse. That is all.
> > > > > > > > > Wasn't I accused of "agree to the massive killing of the innocent Palestinians"?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > If not, thanks for the retraction. It's a very offensive accusation with no basis in fact.
> > > > > > > > What is to retract?
> > > > > > > > "Feel free..." is expressing it is your freedom. Not an accusation.
> > > > > > > The way it was phrased, of course it is an accusation. My goodness, so disingenuous. Typical.
> > > > > > Why would I accuse anyone?
> > > > > > I don't know you or another poster except the user name. I don't even know whether there is a
> > > > > > human or a bot behind the name. I gain nothing by accusing anyone here for anything.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > But of course, it is still your freedom to reach for illogical conclusion.
> > > > > "the end result is a (much larger) replica of Hamas’ atrocities" does not have the same meaning as "Israel ...is a (much larger) replica of Hamas"
> > > > Great.
> > > > Please give your objective criteria what make Hamas uniquely bad besides people killed.
> >
> > > Hamas wants to destroy Israel.
> > Don't know what you means.
> You're dodging.
> > Are you sure you are not assigning an bad to Israel but currently unrealistic goal to Hamas?
> > > > Please don't use terms like terrorist because it is a matter of subjective view point.
> > > > BTW, Isreal government has the ability to blockade Gaza for 16 years while Hamas
> > > > no ability to blockade Israel.
> > > Israel allowed the people of Gaza to come and work in Israel for many years. They only
> > initiated the blockade because Hamas was sending in suicide bombers.
> > Again, on account of killing civilians, Israel had killed Palestinians a lot more than suicide bombers
> > had killed Jews.
> > Are you insisting that Israel 16 years of blockade making Gaza the world’s largest open-air prison
> > is treating Palestinians justly?
> >
> > In case you don't know what was going on in Gaza, try the following,
> > https://www.npr.org/2023/11/04/1210645265/gaza-is-called-an-open-air-prison-how-did-it-get-to-this
> >
> > "MUSTAFA: Gaza wasn't always the Gaza that we have today. Gaza was actually, pre-1948, quite a large territory within Mandatory Palestine. So it was something like 38 times the size that it is today. And at that time, Gaza was very, very wealthy in terms of being a coastal enclave, in terms of trade, in terms of the fertility of the land. And then after 1948, you had the occupation of many of its towns and villages. And so it got confined to a very small strip that we know today. And at that time, it had been occupied by Egypt during the Arab-Israeli War, and then after 1967, came under Israeli military rule when Israel occupied both Gaza and the West Bank. And then in 1993, we see the Oslo Accords, where both Gaza and the West Bank was to be part of what was then considered the start of a Palestinian state in the making. Unfortunately, at that time, you still had these territories under Israeli military occupation.
> > ...
> > MUSTAFA: Israel has done quite a lot to ensure the de-development of Gaza, not only Gaza, but also the West Bank, you know, in terms of restricting the ability of investments, control over Gaza's own resources. We've just discovered that Gaza actually has reserves of oil and gas, which, again, Israel is now preventing them full access over, including their own water resources, which Israel fully controls. And that's no different to what is being experienced in the West Bank as well, where you can say that, you know, Palestinians supposedly have the Palestinian Authority. They're not under a de facto government that's considered a terrorist entity. But yet you're having similar issues within the West Bank, where, again, Palestinians don't control their own resources. They're not in control of their own movement of goods and people. What kinds of investments can go in and out is entirely determined by what Israel will allow in and out. And so ultimately, you know, Israel has done a lot to ensure that the occupied territories do remain de-developed."

Please tell what you don't understand about the concept of objectivity.

"X wants Y" is not a statement about things objective. After all humans cannot read human minds.

IF Hamas has made explicit statement on it wants to destroy Israel, please cite the source.
IF you meant to convey Hamas had proven its intention to destroy Israel for numbers of Israeli civilians
killed and Israeli school, hospitals destroyed and etc, then the conclusion is that Israel had proven its
worse intention to destroy Palestine on a larger scale.

On Thursday, January 4, 2024 at 11:02:16 AM UTC-8, ltlee1 wrote:
> On Thursday, January 4, 2024 at 4:10:51 PM UTC, bmoore wrote:
> > On Wednesday, January 3, 2024 at 5:04:15 PM UTC-8, ltlee1 wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, January 3, 2024 at 1:15:50 PM UTC-5, bmoore wrote:
> > > > On Sunday, December 31, 2023 at 3:20:14 PM UTC-8, ltlee1 wrote:
> > > > > On Friday, December 29, 2023 at 3:52:37 PM UTC, bmoore wrote:
> > > > > > On Friday, December 29, 2023 at 6:09:31 AM UTC-8, ltlee1 wrote:
> > > > > > > On Friday, December 29, 2023 at 6:38:23 AM UTC, bmoore wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Thursday, December 28, 2023 at 6:10:03 PM UTC-8, ltlee1 wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On Friday, December 29, 2023 at 1:01:45 AM UTC, bmoore wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > On Thursday, December 28, 2023 at 4:55:10 AM UTC-8, ltlee1 wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > On Wednesday, December 27, 2023 at 9:40:15 PM UTC, bmoore wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > On Tuesday, December 26, 2023 at 12:38:51 PM UTC-8, ltlee1 wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Feel free you imagine you are the only person who has SENSE OF JUSTICE
> > > > > > > > > > > > > and such SENSE OF JUSTICE has forced to agree to the massive killing of the innocent
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Palestinians.
> > > > > > > > > > > > I noted that you would not in any way criticize Hamas for the brutal 10/7, which so far is TRUE. In response you claim that I support Israel's heavy handed response, which I don't. I have REPEATEDLY that I don't support Israel's tactics. Why do you keep saying I do?
> > > > > > > > > > > Please read the title of this thread. "Israel ...is a (much larger) replica of Hamas"
> > > > > > > > > > > IF Hamas is good, Israel is much better.
> > > > > > > > > > > IF Hamas is bad, Israel is a lot worse. That is all.
> > > > > > > > > > Wasn't I accused of "agree to the massive killing of the innocent Palestinians"?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > If not, thanks for the retraction. It's a very offensive accusation with no basis in fact.
> > > > > > > > > What is to retract?
> > > > > > > > > "Feel free..." is expressing it is your freedom. Not an accusation.
> > > > > > > > The way it was phrased, of course it is an accusation. My goodness, so disingenuous. Typical.
> > > > > > > Why would I accuse anyone?
> > > > > > > I don't know you or another poster except the user name. I don't even know whether there is a
> > > > > > > human or a bot behind the name. I gain nothing by accusing anyone here for anything.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > But of course, it is still your freedom to reach for illogical conclusion.
> > > > > > "the end result is a (much larger) replica of Hamas’ atrocities" does not have the same meaning as "Israel ...is a (much larger) replica of Hamas"
> > > > > Great.
> > > > > Please give your objective criteria what make Hamas uniquely bad besides people killed.
> > >
> > > > Hamas wants to destroy Israel.
> > > Don't know what you means.
> > You're dodging.
> > > Are you sure you are not assigning an bad to Israel but currently unrealistic goal to Hamas?
> > > > > Please don't use terms like terrorist because it is a matter of subjective view point.
> > > > > BTW, Isreal government has the ability to blockade Gaza for 16 years while Hamas
> > > > > no ability to blockade Israel.
> > > > Israel allowed the people of Gaza to come and work in Israel for many years. They only
> > > initiated the blockade because Hamas was sending in suicide bombers.
> > > Again, on account of killing civilians, Israel had killed Palestinians a lot more than suicide bombers
> > > had killed Jews.
> > > Are you insisting that Israel 16 years of blockade making Gaza the world’s largest open-air prison
> > > is treating Palestinians justly?
> > >
> > > In case you don't know what was going on in Gaza, try the following,
> > > https://www.npr.org/2023/11/04/1210645265/gaza-is-called-an-open-air-prison-how-did-it-get-to-this
> > >
> > > "MUSTAFA: Gaza wasn't always the Gaza that we have today. Gaza was actually, pre-1948, quite a large territory within Mandatory Palestine. So it was something like 38 times the size that it is today. And at that time, Gaza was very, very wealthy in terms of being a coastal enclave, in terms of trade, in terms of the fertility of the land. And then after 1948, you had the occupation of many of its towns and villages. And so it got confined to a very small strip that we know today. And at that time, it had been occupied by Egypt during the Arab-Israeli War, and then after 1967, came under Israeli military rule when Israel occupied both Gaza and the West Bank. And then in 1993, we see the Oslo Accords, where both Gaza and the West Bank was to be part of what was then considered the start of a Palestinian state in the making. Unfortunately, at that time, you still had these territories under Israeli military occupation.
> > > ...
> > > MUSTAFA: Israel has done quite a lot to ensure the de-development of Gaza, not only Gaza, but also the West Bank, you know, in terms of restricting the ability of investments, control over Gaza's own resources. We've just discovered that Gaza actually has reserves of oil and gas, which, again, Israel is now preventing them full access over, including their own water resources, which Israel fully controls. And that's no different to what is being experienced in the West Bank as well, where you can say that, you know, Palestinians supposedly have the Palestinian Authority. They're not under a de facto government that's considered a terrorist entity. But yet you're having similar issues within the West Bank, where, again, Palestinians don't control their own resources. They're not in control of their own movement of goods and people. What kinds of investments can go in and out is entirely determined by what Israel will allow in and out. And so ultimately, you know, Israel has done a lot to ensure that the occupied territories do remain de-developed."
> Please tell what you don't understand about the concept of objectivity.
>
> "X wants Y" is not a statement about things objective. After all humans cannot read human minds.
>
> IF Hamas has made explicit statement on it wants to destroy Israel, please cite the source.

It's stated in their charter. That's the source. You are playing games.

> IF you meant to convey Hamas had proven its intention to destroy Israel for numbers of Israeli civilians
> killed and Israeli school, hospitals destroyed and etc, then the conclusion is that Israel had proven its
> worse intention to destroy Palestine on a larger scale.