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interests / soc.history.medieval / OT - Robert Leckie and democracy

SubjectAuthor
* OT - Robert Leckie and democracya425couple
+* Re: OT - Robert Leckie and democracySurreyman
|`* Re: OT - Robert Leckie and democracya425couple
| `- Re: OT - Robert Leckie and democracySurreyman
`- Re: OT - Robert Leckie and democracyEric Stevens

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OT - Robert Leckie and democracy

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 by: a425couple - Mon, 1 Nov 2021 22:09 UTC

Yes, it is Off Topic, but I think it is related
to our frequent discussion on the great divide.

I like Robert Leckie.
He was a Marine who then wrote 40 books.
As he wrote in 1998,

Why, then, were five Presidents unable to contain
Communism in Indo-China?
Probably because of their naïve but mistaken belief that
democracy can flourish in any soil. In truth, democracy
-free speech society with truly representative government -
is a rare bloom, which has seldom blossomed outside Europe
or the English-speaking countries of the world. To have
attempted to graft it onto South Vietnam's population of
peasants, ignoring their psychology, their traditions, their
rigidly structured society, their indifference to the Western gods
of Ballot Box and Freedom and their attachment to a charismatic
leader, be he emperor, king or commissar, was the original and
major mistake of the war.

Re: OT - Robert Leckie and democracy

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Subject: Re: OT - Robert Leckie and democracy
From: alanspen...@googlemail.com (Surreyman)
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 by: Surreyman - Tue, 2 Nov 2021 08:01 UTC

On Monday, November 1, 2021 at 10:09:24 PM UTC, a425couple wrote:
> Yes, it is Off Topic, but I think it is related
> to our frequent discussion on the great divide.
>
> I like Robert Leckie.
> He was a Marine who then wrote 40 books.
> As he wrote in 1998,
>
> Why, then, were five Presidents unable to contain
> Communism in Indo-China?
> Probably because of their naïve but mistaken belief that
> democracy can flourish in any soil. In truth, democracy
> -free speech society with truly representative government -
> is a rare bloom, which has seldom blossomed outside Europe
> or the English-speaking countries of the world. To have
> attempted to graft it onto South Vietnam's population of
> peasants, ignoring their psychology, their traditions, their
> rigidly structured society, their indifference to the Western gods
> of Ballot Box and Freedom and their attachment to a charismatic
> leader, be he emperor, king or commissar, was the original and
> major mistake of the war.

As was the unbelievable "Arab Spring".
Destined for disaster and so obvious to anyone who knew NA/ME.

Re: OT - Robert Leckie and democracy

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 by: a425couple - Tue, 2 Nov 2021 22:50 UTC

On 11/2/2021 1:01 AM, Surreyman wrote:
> On Monday, November 1, 2021 at 10:09:24 PM UTC, a425couple wrote:
>> Yes, it is Off Topic, but I think it is related
>> to our frequent discussion on the great divide.
>>
>> I like Robert Leckie.
>> He was a Marine who then wrote 40 books.
>> As he wrote in 1998,
>>
>> Why, then, were five Presidents unable to contain
>> Communism in Indo-China?
>> Probably because of their naïve but mistaken belief that
>> democracy can flourish in any soil. In truth, democracy
>> -free speech society with truly representative government -
>> is a rare bloom, which has seldom blossomed outside Europe
>> or the English-speaking countries of the world. To have
>> attempted to graft it onto South Vietnam's population of
>> peasants, ignoring their psychology, their traditions, their
>> rigidly structured society, their indifference to the Western gods
>> of Ballot Box and Freedom and their attachment to a charismatic
>> leader, be he emperor, king or commissar, was the original and
>> major mistake of the war.
>
> As was the unbelievable "Arab Spring".
> Destined for disaster and so obvious to anyone

Yes, indeed.
We keep thinking times have changed,
or new devices like cell phone & computers,
have changed what dictators or dominators can do.

Just walk in like a HMFIC badass, and do what is
best for your own country, I guess.

Maybe a re-read would be worthwhile:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy#Middle_Ages

> who knew NA/ME.
>
What do you mean NA/ME ?

Re: OT - Robert Leckie and democracy

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From: eric.ste...@sum.co.nz (Eric Stevens)
Newsgroups: soc.history.medieval
Subject: Re: OT - Robert Leckie and democracy
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 by: Eric Stevens - Wed, 3 Nov 2021 03:04 UTC

On Mon, 1 Nov 2021 15:09:24 -0700, a425couple <a425couple@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>Yes, it is Off Topic, but I think it is related
>to our frequent discussion on the great divide.
>
>I like Robert Leckie.
>He was a Marine who then wrote 40 books.
>As he wrote in 1998,
>
>Why, then, were five Presidents unable to contain
>Communism in Indo-China?
>Probably because of their naïve but mistaken belief that
>democracy can flourish in any soil. In truth, democracy
>-free speech society with truly representative government -
>is a rare bloom, which has seldom blossomed outside Europe
>or the English-speaking countries of the world. To have
>attempted to graft it onto South Vietnam's population of
>peasants, ignoring their psychology, their traditions, their
>rigidly structured society, their indifference to the Western gods
>of Ballot Box and Freedom and their attachment to a charismatic
>leader, be he emperor, king or commissar, was the original and
>major mistake of the war.

Yes, Lord Louis Mountbatten got it right the first time although he
was overruled by the brothers Dulles. He wanted to set up Vietnam
under Ho Chi Minh from the beginning.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

Re: OT - Robert Leckie and democracy

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Subject: Re: OT - Robert Leckie and democracy
From: alanspen...@googlemail.com (Surreyman)
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 by: Surreyman - Wed, 3 Nov 2021 08:13 UTC

On Tuesday, November 2, 2021 at 10:51:00 PM UTC, a425couple wrote:
> On 11/2/2021 1:01 AM, Surreyman wrote:
> > On Monday, November 1, 2021 at 10:09:24 PM UTC, a425couple wrote:
> >> Yes, it is Off Topic, but I think it is related
> >> to our frequent discussion on the great divide.
> >>
> >> I like Robert Leckie.
> >> He was a Marine who then wrote 40 books.
> >> As he wrote in 1998,
> >>
> >> Why, then, were five Presidents unable to contain
> >> Communism in Indo-China?
> >> Probably because of their naïve but mistaken belief that
> >> democracy can flourish in any soil. In truth, democracy
> >> -free speech society with truly representative government -
> >> is a rare bloom, which has seldom blossomed outside Europe
> >> or the English-speaking countries of the world. To have
> >> attempted to graft it onto South Vietnam's population of
> >> peasants, ignoring their psychology, their traditions, their
> >> rigidly structured society, their indifference to the Western gods
> >> of Ballot Box and Freedom and their attachment to a charismatic
> >> leader, be he emperor, king or commissar, was the original and
> >> major mistake of the war.
> >
> > As was the unbelievable "Arab Spring".
> > Destined for disaster and so obvious to anyone
> Yes, indeed.
> We keep thinking times have changed,
> or new devices like cell phone & computers,
> have changed what dictators or dominators can do.
>
> Just walk in like a HMFIC badass, and do what is
> best for your own country, I guess.
>
> Maybe a re-read would be worthwhile:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy#Middle_Ages
>
>
> > who knew NA/ME.
> >
> What do you mean NA/ME ?

North Africa/Middle East

1
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