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interests / alt.obituaries / Re: Sam Zell, 81, billionaire real estate magnate

SubjectAuthor
* Sam Zell, 81, billionaire real estate magnateMichael Rhodes
`* Re: Sam Zell, 81, billionaire real estate magnateLouis Epstein
 `* Re: Sam Zell, 81, billionaire real estate magnateAdam H. Kerman
  `* Re: Sam Zell, 81, billionaire real estate magnateLouis Epstein
   `* Re: Sam Zell, 81, billionaire real estate magnateAdam H. Kerman
    +- Re: Sam Zell, 81, billionaire real estate magnatedanny burstein
    `* Re: Sam Zell, 81, billionaire real estate magnateLouis Epstein
     `* Re: Sam Zell, 81, billionaire real estate magnateAdam H. Kerman
      `- Re: Sam Zell, 81, billionaire real estate magnateLouis Epstein

1
Sam Zell, 81, billionaire real estate magnate

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Subject: Sam Zell, 81, billionaire real estate magnate
From: mig73all...@yahoo.co.uk (Michael Rhodes)
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 by: Michael Rhodes - Thu, 18 May 2023 22:07 UTC

Chicago real-estate magnate Sam Zell who earned a multibillion-dollar fortune and a reputation as 'the grave dancer' for his ability to revive moribund properties has died. Zell died at home on Thursday due to complications from a recent illness, according to Equity Group Investments, a company he founded in 1968.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12099989/Billionaire-real-estate-magnate-Sam-Zell-dies-home-aged-81.html

Re: Sam Zell, 81, billionaire real estate magnate

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From: le...@main.lekno.ws (Louis Epstein)
Newsgroups: alt.obituaries
Subject: Re: Sam Zell, 81, billionaire real estate magnate
Date: Sat, 20 May 2023 05:02:33 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and UNIX, NYC
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 by: Louis Epstein - Sat, 20 May 2023 05:02 UTC

Michael Rhodes <mig73allenford2002@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> Chicago real-estate magnate Sam Zell who earned a multibillion-dollar fortune and a reputation as 'the grave dancer' for his ability to revive moribund properties has died. Zell died at home on Thursday due to complications from a recent illness, according to Equity Group Investments, a company he founded in 1968.

Also known for buying and breaking up the Tribune Company
(publishing & broadcasting).
> https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12099989/Billionaire-real-estate-magnate-Sam-Zell-dies-home-aged-81.html

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

Re: Sam Zell, 81, billionaire real estate magnate

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From: ahk...@chinet.com (Adam H. Kerman)
Newsgroups: alt.obituaries
Subject: Re: Sam Zell, 81, billionaire real estate magnate
Date: Sat, 20 May 2023 14:39:02 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Adam H. Kerman - Sat, 20 May 2023 14:39 UTC

Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:

>Also known for buying and breaking up the Tribune Company
>(publishing & broadcasting).

>https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12099989/Billionaire-real-estate-magnate-Sam-Zell-dies-home-aged-81.html

Not exactly. There's simply no question that the newspaper, slowly
dying, was never going to be allowed to retain broadcasting and real
estate holdings.

Trib had been a stodgy but blue-chip company for a very long time that
was an innovator in broadcasting. Trib Media owned tv and radio stations
and produced syndicated television. They had purchased the Chicago Cubs
from Wrigley Gum because it was so sustantial a part of the broadcast
schedule of WGN-TV and radio. The one major fiasco of Trib Media was the
fifth-network partnership with Warner Bros. on the failed fifth network
The WB. (Trib Media never had any ownership of the later fifth network
The CW and would eventually drop affiliation entirely.)

But Trib became a horrifically-managed company with the massive fiaso of
the deal with the Chandler family, owner of Times-Mirror, which was the
Los Angeles Times and a number of other newspapers and magazines that
were dropping circulation numbers far more quickly than newspapers. Trib
massively overpaid the Chandlers but justified it with an aggressive tax
position. Worse still, the Chandlers ended up on the Trib's board.

The tax position? The federal government eventually won. Whoops

This led to bankruptcy. Sam Zell bought it out of bankruptcy but took
out a massive amount of cash. This massive cash removal is what led to
the second bankruptcy. There was no Sam Zell miracle and, pretty much,
the removal of cash from the company was in no way an attempt to turn
the business around.

Zell sold the Cubs to resolve issues of the first bankruptcy but the
second bankruptcy removed Zell's control.

People I knew who worked at the newspaper told me about the "frat boy"
atmosphere of the so-called management Zell had installed in publishing
and corporate. I didn't know anyone on the broadcast side, but I'm sure
it was the same problem. These were not hard-headed business managers. I
have no idea how Zell ever had a stellar reputation as a turnaround
specialist.

The company was broken up in the second bankruptcy, and the way that was
resolved was stripping real estate and media from publishing and putting
as much debt into publishing as possible. The newspaper became a tenant
in Tribune Tower and at the massive printing plant Freedom Center.

The moved out of Tribune Tower several years ago and have just agreed to
vacate the printing plant. They are going to move into a substantially
smaller printing plant that's been an albatross for smaller daily
newspaper in the northwest suburbs. That deal was made a few days ago.

Zell's ownership was a disaster but Zell is absolutely not responsible
for Trib's incompetence and corporate decline.

Re: Sam Zell, 81, billionaire real estate magnate

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From: le...@main.lekno.ws (Louis Epstein)
Newsgroups: alt.obituaries
Subject: Re: Sam Zell, 81, billionaire real estate magnate
Date: Sat, 20 May 2023 18:37:06 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and UNIX, NYC
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 by: Louis Epstein - Sat, 20 May 2023 18:37 UTC

Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
> Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>
>>Also known for buying and breaking up the Tribune Company
>>(publishing & broadcasting).
>
>>https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12099989/Billionaire-real-estate-magnate-Sam-Zell-dies-home-aged-81.html
>
> Not exactly. There's simply no question that the newspaper, slowly
> dying, was never going to be allowed to retain broadcasting and real
> estate holdings.
>
> Trib had been a stodgy but blue-chip company for a very long time that
> was an innovator in broadcasting. Trib Media owned tv and radio stations
> and produced syndicated television. They had purchased the Chicago Cubs
> from Wrigley Gum because it was so sustantial a part of the broadcast
> schedule of WGN-TV and radio. The one major fiasco of Trib Media was the
> fifth-network partnership with Warner Bros. on the failed fifth network
> The WB. (Trib Media never had any ownership of the later fifth network
> The CW and would eventually drop affiliation entirely.)

So you would say that the Medill McCormick Trust era of
former aides of the Colonel passing on to their deputies
(Chesser Campbell,J. Howard Wood,Harold Grumhaus,Stanton R. Cook)
was a success?
> But Trib became a horrifically-managed company with the massive fiaso of
> the deal with the Chandler family, owner of Times-Mirror, which was the
> Los Angeles Times and a number of other newspapers and magazines that
> were dropping circulation numbers far more quickly than newspapers. Trib
> massively overpaid the Chandlers but justified it with an aggressive tax
> position. Worse still, the Chandlers ended up on the Trib's board.
>
> The tax position? The federal government eventually won. Whoops
>
> This led to bankruptcy. Sam Zell bought it out of bankruptcy but took
> out a massive amount of cash. This massive cash removal is what led to
> the second bankruptcy. There was no Sam Zell miracle and, pretty much,
> the removal of cash from the company was in no way an attempt to turn
> the business around.
>
> Zell sold the Cubs to resolve issues of the first bankruptcy but the
> second bankruptcy removed Zell's control.
>
> People I knew who worked at the newspaper told me about the "frat boy"
> atmosphere of the so-called management Zell had installed in publishing
> and corporate. I didn't know anyone on the broadcast side, but I'm sure
> it was the same problem. These were not hard-headed business managers. I
> have no idea how Zell ever had a stellar reputation as a turnaround
> specialist.
>
> The company was broken up in the second bankruptcy, and the way that was
> resolved was stripping real estate and media from publishing and putting
> as much debt into publishing as possible. The newspaper became a tenant
> in Tribune Tower and at the massive printing plant Freedom Center.
>
> The moved out of Tribune Tower several years ago and have just agreed to
> vacate the printing plant. They are going to move into a substantially
> smaller printing plant that's been an albatross for smaller daily
> newspaper in the northwest suburbs. That deal was made a few days ago.
>
> Zell's ownership was a disaster but Zell is absolutely not responsible
> for Trib's incompetence and corporate decline.

How can a disaster play no part in disastrous outcomes?

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

Re: Sam Zell, 81, billionaire real estate magnate

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From: ahk...@chinet.com (Adam H. Kerman)
Newsgroups: alt.obituaries
Subject: Re: Sam Zell, 81, billionaire real estate magnate
Date: Sat, 20 May 2023 19:30:33 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Adam H. Kerman - Sat, 20 May 2023 19:30 UTC

Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>>Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:

>>>Also known for buying and breaking up the Tribune Company
>>>(publishing & broadcasting).

>>>https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12099989/Billionaire-real-estate-magnate-Sam-Zell-dies-home-aged-81.html

>>Not exactly. There's simply no question that the newspaper, slowly
>>dying, was never going to be allowed to retain broadcasting and real
>>estate holdings.

>>Trib had been a stodgy but blue-chip company for a very long time that
>>was an innovator in broadcasting. Trib Media owned tv and radio stations
>>and produced syndicated television. They had purchased the Chicago Cubs
>>from Wrigley Gum because it was so sustantial a part of the broadcast
>>schedule of WGN-TV and radio. The one major fiasco of Trib Media was the
>>fifth-network partnership with Warner Bros. on the failed fifth network
>>The WB. (Trib Media never had any ownership of the later fifth network
>>The CW and would eventually drop affiliation entirely.)

>So you would say that the Medill McCormick Trust era of
>former aides of the Colonel passing on to their deputies
>(Chesser Campbell,J. Howard Wood,Harold Grumhaus,Stanton R. Cook)
>was a success?

Not a trust. McCormick Foundation

The Foundation was on the board after the Colonel's death. They held
enough shares of stock that they could have prevented some of the
disasters. Actually, they went along with the Chandler Family crap same
as everybody else. I don't know how they survived the two bankruptcies.

I'd call it a disaster.
>>. . .

>>Zell's ownership was a disaster but Zell is absolutely not responsible
>>for Trib's incompetence and corporate decline.

>How can a disaster play no part in disastrous outcomes?

I'm trying to make the point that Trib turned itself from a blue-chip
company into a corporate disaster years before Zell came on the scene.

Zell is responsible for the SECOND bankruptcy, not the first. He bought
them out of bankruptcy and made everything worse.

The turning point was the purchase of the L.A. Times, not Zell.

Re: Sam Zell, 81, billionaire real estate magnate

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From: dan...@panix.com (danny burstein)
Newsgroups: alt.obituaries
Subject: Re: Sam Zell, 81, billionaire real estate magnate
Date: Sat, 20 May 2023 21:23:54 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and UNIX, NYC
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 by: danny burstein - Sat, 20 May 2023 21:23 UTC

In <u4b74p$158ol$1@dont-email.me> "Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> writes:

[snip]

>I'm trying to make the point that Trib turned itself from a blue-chip
>company into a corporate disaster years before Zell came on the scene.

>Zell is responsible for the SECOND bankruptcy, not the first. He bought
>them out of bankruptcy and made everything worse.

>The turning point was the purchase of the L.A. Times, not Zell.

Part of the problem, of course, was they were fighting
against the Los Angeles Tribune, which was led by
Margaret "take no prisoners" Pynchon

--
_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
dannyb@panix.com
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]

Re: Sam Zell, 81, billionaire real estate magnate

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From: le...@main.lekno.ws (Louis Epstein)
Newsgroups: alt.obituaries
Subject: Re: Sam Zell, 81, billionaire real estate magnate
Date: Sun, 21 May 2023 03:19:32 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and UNIX, NYC
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 by: Louis Epstein - Sun, 21 May 2023 03:19 UTC

Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
> Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>>Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>>>Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>
>>>>Also known for buying and breaking up the Tribune Company
>>>>(publishing & broadcasting).
>
>>>>https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12099989/Billionaire-real-estate-magnate-Sam-Zell-dies-home-aged-81.html
>
>>>Not exactly. There's simply no question that the newspaper, slowly
>>>dying, was never going to be allowed to retain broadcasting and real
>>>estate holdings.
>
>>>Trib had been a stodgy but blue-chip company for a very long time that
>>>was an innovator in broadcasting. Trib Media owned tv and radio stations
>>>and produced syndicated television. They had purchased the Chicago Cubs
>>>from Wrigley Gum because it was so sustantial a part of the broadcast
>>>schedule of WGN-TV and radio. The one major fiasco of Trib Media was the
>>>fifth-network partnership with Warner Bros. on the failed fifth network
>>>The WB. (Trib Media never had any ownership of the later fifth network
>>>The CW and would eventually drop affiliation entirely.)
>
>>So you would say that the Medill McCormick Trust era of
>>former aides of the Colonel passing on to their deputies
>>(Chesser Campbell,J. Howard Wood,Harold Grumhaus,Stanton R. Cook)
>>was a success?
>
> Not a trust. McCormick Foundation

There most definitely was a trust set up by Joseph Medill Patterson
(NY Daily News founder) and his cousin Robert Medill McCormick (had
control of the Chicago Tribune to himself after Patterson left for NY)
that dissolved 20 years after the death of the latter of the two to die.
There were trustees from both branches who had to agree with each other,
but once the trust expired(1975) the Daily News trustees were no longer
in a position to defend autonomy from Chicago control.
(Each man's immediate successor died soon after the family partner,
Roy Hollis in a car crash just months after Patterson in 1946,
Chesser Campbell in 1960,but other colleagues stayed on as long
as the trust did.Cook took the company public in 1983 once the
NY branch was brought to heel).
> The Foundation was on the board after the Colonel's death. They held
> enough shares of stock that they could have prevented some of the
> disasters. Actually, they went along with the Chandler Family crap same
> as everybody else. I don't know how they survived the two bankruptcies.

The Chandler family had had their own civil war that resulted in
the sale of the Times Mirror company to Tribune.Norman Chandler,
his wife Dorothy,and son Otis were the public face of that business
for a long time,but after his son (a second Norman) died Otis lost
interest in staying on,and the heirs of Norman's older sisters who
Dorothy had proudly sidelined lost confidence in the musical chairs
successors to Otis and eventually sold out.
> I'd call it a disaster.
>
>>>. . .
>
>>>Zell's ownership was a disaster but Zell is absolutely not responsible
>>>for Trib's incompetence and corporate decline.
>
>>How can a disaster play no part in disastrous outcomes?
>
> I'm trying to make the point that Trib turned itself from a blue-chip
> company into a corporate disaster years before Zell came on the scene.
>
> Zell is responsible for the SECOND bankruptcy, not the first. He bought
> them out of bankruptcy and made everything worse.
>
> The turning point was the purchase of the L.A. Times, not Zell.

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

Re: Sam Zell, 81, billionaire real estate magnate

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From: ahk...@chinet.com (Adam H. Kerman)
Newsgroups: alt.obituaries
Subject: Re: Sam Zell, 81, billionaire real estate magnate
Date: Sun, 21 May 2023 05:30:56 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Adam H. Kerman - Sun, 21 May 2023 05:30 UTC

Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>>Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>>>Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>>>>Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:

>>>>>Also known for buying and breaking up the Tribune Company
>>>>>(publishing & broadcasting).

>>>>>https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12099989/Billionaire-real-estate-magnate-Sam-Zell-dies-home-aged-81.html

>>>>Not exactly. There's simply no question that the newspaper, slowly
>>>>dying, was never going to be allowed to retain broadcasting and real
>>>>estate holdings.
>>>>Trib had been a stodgy but blue-chip company for a very long time that
>>>>was an innovator in broadcasting. Trib Media owned tv and radio stations
>>>>and produced syndicated television. They had purchased the Chicago Cubs
>>>>from Wrigley Gum because it was so sustantial a part of the broadcast
>>>>schedule of WGN-TV and radio. The one major fiasco of Trib Media was the
>>>>fifth-network partnership with Warner Bros. on the failed fifth network
>>>>The WB. (Trib Media never had any ownership of the later fifth network
>>>>The CW and would eventually drop affiliation entirely.)

>>>So you would say that the Medill McCormick Trust era of
>>>former aides of the Colonel passing on to their deputies
>>>(Chesser Campbell,J. Howard Wood,Harold Grumhaus,Stanton R. Cook)
>>>was a success?
>>Not a trust. McCormick Foundation

>There most definitely was a trust set up by Joseph Medill Patterson
>(NY Daily News founder) and his cousin Robert Medill McCormick (had
>control of the Chicago Tribune to himself after Patterson left for NY)
>that dissolved 20 years after the death of the latter of the two to die.

Ok. I'll take your word for it. I thought the stock went directly to the
Foundation.
>>The Foundation was on the board after the Colonel's death. They held
>>enough shares of stock that they could have prevented some of the
>>disasters. Actually, they went along with the Chandler Family crap same
>>as everybody else. I don't know how they survived the two bankruptcies.

>The Chandler family had had their own civil war that resulted in
>the sale of the Times Mirror company to Tribune.Norman Chandler,
>his wife Dorothy,and son Otis were the public face of that business
>for a long time,but after his son (a second Norman) died Otis lost
>interest in staying on,and the heirs of Norman's older sisters who
>Dorothy had proudly sidelined lost confidence in the musical chairs
>successors to Otis and eventually sold out.

Ok. However it worked, you're missing the point I was making that the
Chandlers were so vastly overpaid that it led to the first bankruptcy.
>>. . .

Re: Sam Zell, 81, billionaire real estate magnate

<u4ccuo$eqm$1@reader2.panix.com>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=17671&group=alt.obituaries#17671

  copy link   Newsgroups: alt.obituaries
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!panix!.POSTED.12.144.5.2!not-for-mail
From: le...@main.lekno.ws (Louis Epstein)
Newsgroups: alt.obituaries
Subject: Re: Sam Zell, 81, billionaire real estate magnate
Date: Sun, 21 May 2023 06:15:52 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and UNIX, NYC
Message-ID: <u4ccuo$eqm$1@reader2.panix.com>
References: <ce1fc145-4e56-41be-9b54-db583d8caee8n@googlegroups.com> <u4b40i$c59$1@reader2.panix.com> <u4b74p$158ol$1@dont-email.me> <u4c2k3$66s$1@reader2.panix.com> <u4caaf$1ed0j$1@dont-email.me>
Injection-Date: Sun, 21 May 2023 06:15:52 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: reader2.panix.com; posting-host="12.144.5.2";
logging-data="15190"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@panix.com"
User-Agent: tin/2.6.2-20221225 ("Pittyvaich") (FreeBSD/12.4-RELEASE-p1 (amd64))
 by: Louis Epstein - Sun, 21 May 2023 06:15 UTC

Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
> Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>>Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>>>Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>>>>Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>>>>>Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>
>>>>>>Also known for buying and breaking up the Tribune Company
>>>>>>(publishing & broadcasting).
>
>>>>>>https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12099989/Billionaire-real-estate-magnate-Sam-Zell-dies-home-aged-81.html
>
>>>>>Not exactly. There's simply no question that the newspaper, slowly
>>>>>dying, was never going to be allowed to retain broadcasting and real
>>>>>estate holdings.
>
>>>>>Trib had been a stodgy but blue-chip company for a very long time that
>>>>>was an innovator in broadcasting. Trib Media owned tv and radio stations
>>>>>and produced syndicated television. They had purchased the Chicago Cubs
>>>>>from Wrigley Gum because it was so sustantial a part of the broadcast
>>>>>schedule of WGN-TV and radio. The one major fiasco of Trib Media was the
>>>>>fifth-network partnership with Warner Bros. on the failed fifth network
>>>>>The WB. (Trib Media never had any ownership of the later fifth network
>>>>>The CW and would eventually drop affiliation entirely.)
>
>>>>So you would say that the Medill McCormick Trust era of
>>>>former aides of the Colonel passing on to their deputies
>>>>(Chesser Campbell,J. Howard Wood,Harold Grumhaus,Stanton R. Cook)
>>>>was a success?
>
>>>Not a trust. McCormick Foundation
>
>>There most definitely was a trust set up by Joseph Medill Patterson
>>(NY Daily News founder) and his cousin Robert Medill McCormick (had
>>control of the Chicago Tribune to himself after Patterson left for NY)
>>that dissolved 20 years after the death of the latter of the two to die.
>
> Ok. I'll take your word for it. I thought the stock went directly to the
> Foundation.

FWIW these legal records recount the background close to their beginning:

https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/FSupp/374/538/2352999/
https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/F2/514/956/32727/
(At this point F.M. Flynn and W.H. James were chairman and president
in NY and J. Howard Wood was retired and H.F. Grumhaus incumbent CEO
in Chicago,and James J. Patterson was a Medill cousin,among the
named trustees).

>>>The Foundation was on the board after the Colonel's death. They held
>>>enough shares of stock that they could have prevented some of the
>>>disasters. Actually, they went along with the Chandler Family crap same
>>>as everybody else. I don't know how they survived the two bankruptcies.
>
>>The Chandler family had had their own civil war that resulted in
>>the sale of the Times Mirror company to Tribune.Norman Chandler,
>>his wife Dorothy,and son Otis were the public face of that business
>>for a long time,but after his son (a second Norman) died Otis lost
>>interest in staying on,and the heirs of Norman's older sisters who
>>Dorothy had proudly sidelined lost confidence in the musical chairs
>>successors to Otis and eventually sold out.
>
> Ok. However it worked, you're missing the point I was making that the
> Chandlers were so vastly overpaid that it led to the first bankruptcy.
>
>>>. . .

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

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