Rocksolid Light

Welcome to novaBBS (click a section below)

mail  files  register  newsreader  groups  login

Message-ID:  

I use technology in order to hate it more properly. -- Nam June Paik


interests / soc.history.medieval / Digging For Britain - Has The Birthplace of Saint Patrick Been Discovered?

SubjectAuthor
* Digging For Britain - Has The Birthplace of Saint Patrick Been Discovered?David Read
`* Re: Digging For Britain - Has The Birthplace of Saint Patrick Been Discovered?Surreyman
 `* Re: Digging For Britain - Has The Birthplace of Saint Patrick Been Discovered?David Read
  `* Re: Digging For Britain - Has The Birthplace of Saint Patrick Been Discovered?SolomonW
   `- Re: Digging For Britain - Has The Birthplace of Saint Patrick Been Discovered?The Horny Goat

1
Digging For Britain - Has The Birthplace of Saint Patrick Been Discovered?

<702e2838-4ffc-4eb1-86ec-cc68a9521f87n@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=1773&group=soc.history.medieval#1773

 copy link   Newsgroups: soc.history.medieval
X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:25ca:: with SMTP id y10mr2734765qko.526.1642074705897;
Thu, 13 Jan 2022 03:51:45 -0800 (PST)
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6808:f11:: with SMTP id m17mr2835323oiw.36.1642074705280;
Thu, 13 Jan 2022 03:51:45 -0800 (PST)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!news.misty.com!border2.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: soc.history.medieval
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 03:51:45 -0800 (PST)
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=109.123.74.172; posting-account=PJ-hVQoAAAAzJScQY07BWs8zcNmQAkHC
NNTP-Posting-Host: 109.123.74.172
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <702e2838-4ffc-4eb1-86ec-cc68a9521f87n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Digging For Britain - Has The Birthplace of Saint Patrick Been Discovered?
From: david.re...@gmail.com (David Read)
Injection-Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 11:51:45 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Lines: 112
 by: David Read - Thu, 13 Jan 2022 11:51 UTC

Shown in the BBC's "Digging For Britain" archaeology TV series last night was the ongoing excavation of a previously unknown Roman site in Somerset. The site is extensive, possibly even that of a small town.

See:- https://oxfordarchaeology.com/news/958-bbc-series-digging-for-britain-featuring-somerset-roman-town-excavation

from which this is taken:-
.....................................................

"10th January 2022:
The latest series of the BBC's flagship archaeology programme, Digging for Britain, will feature National Grid's Hinkley Connection Project and Oxford Archaeology's excavation of a nationally significant Roman settlement in Somerset this week.

The site was discovered during the pre-construction phase of underground cabling work on National Grid’s Hinkley Connection Project. Over the last two years, Oxford Archaeology with National Grid and Balfour Beatty, completed one of the most intensively excavated slices through a Roman roadside settlement undertaken in the UK to date. The site is exceptionally well preserved: Layer after layer of settlement remains were meticulously excavated and recorded using cutting edge photogrammetry methods. Remains include houses, barns, roads, and wells. Numerous crop-driers or malting ovens show that this part of the settlement was involved in agricultural production and part of the site may have been a butcher’s shop. Numerous newborn infant burials were found buried within the settlement, in accordance with standard Roman burial customs. The Roman settlement seems to have been an important regional market centre at a road junction and river crossing in the Mendip Hills. Although occupied from the 1st Century to the 4th the settlement appears to have experienced an economic boom in the reigns of the Emperor Constantine and his successors in the first half of the 4th century AD.

The excavations were planned and carried out as part of the Hinkley Connection Project, a new high-voltage electricity connection between Bridgwater and Seabank near Avonmouth. This project is a significant investment in the SW region’s electricity network and will enable National Grid to connect new sources of low-carbon energy to homes and businesses, including Hinkley Point C, EDF Energy’s new power station in Somerset. The project will play a vital role in delivering electricity safely, efficiently and reliably, and support the UK’s ambition to achieve its net zero by 2050 target. The new connection will be 57 kilometres long – consisting of 48.5 kilometres of overhead line and 8.5 kilometres of underground cable through the Mendip Hills Area of Outstanding Natural Beauty (AONB).. Further information can be found on the National Grid and project websites, at the links below:
Details of the Hinkley Connection Project: https://hinkleyconnection.co.uk/project-summary
Future updates on the archaeology: https://hinkleyconnection.co.uk/archaeology
Previously published article on the archaeology: https://www.nationalgrid.com/uk/stories/grid-at-work-stories/going-underground-archaeological-finds-somerset

The site, located near Winscombe in Somerset, is featured in episode 5 of the series, being broadcast at 8pm on Wednesday 12th January on BBC Two and will be available afterwards on demand on BBCiPlayer: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0013f61 Digging for Britain is hosted by Professor Alice Roberts, and she visited the excavations last year to meet the team.

Following completion of the archaeological excavations, all artefacts have been recovered and recorded, the underground cables are in place and the land has been reinstated. With our partners National Grid and Balfour Beatty, we gave a presentation on the results to Local Society members in September 2021. Further academic reports and publicity are in the planning stages."
.................................................................................................

Although the programme made no connection with Saint Patrick, I was struck by the possibilty that this might have been his birthplace.

Back in October 2002 in an s.h.m. thread called "Strathclyde?" I posted the following:-

"Ken Dark writes:-

"Patrick writes at length in Latin, refers to grammatici in Britain
(scholars of secular higher education in Latin learning), and expects
his readers to be well-educated in the Roman manner. Like his
contemporary in Gaul, Sidonius Apollinaris, he is a third-generation
Christian, well-acquainted with both the Late Roman Church hierarchy
and with monasticism. As a boy he lived at a villa-estate (villula)
near a `small town' apparently close to a major town, with formal
Roman-style administration in which his father had a role. That is,
Patrick had grown up in exactly the sort of `settlement pattern'
archaeology tells us characterised the late fourth-century Romano-
British landscape, but this is unlikely to be much before 450. When
he returned home, after his escape from slavery, relatives attempted
to persuade him to run the still-surviving estate. This is clear
evidence that the basic rural fabric of Late Roman Britain survived
well into the fifth century alongside the emergence of a Christian
society with bishops, priests, monks and nuns. Patrick tries to tell
us in the Confessio exactly where his parental home was (Bannaventa
taberniae), but the place-name is unknown to modern scholars. It was
clearly an area with villas, `small' and `large' towns, and probably
accessible directly from Ireland by sea. The West Country seems the
most likely location, perhaps Somerset near the Severn estuary
but it is impossible to be sure." p.33

_Britain and the End of the Roman Empire_ Tempus 2000"

Stay tuned, I think, is the order of the day.

Cheers,

David Read

Re: Digging For Britain - Has The Birthplace of Saint Patrick Been Discovered?

<adf586c6-6a73-42b7-b9f8-511ebe799c4bn@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=1774&group=soc.history.medieval#1774

 copy link   Newsgroups: soc.history.medieval
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6214:230d:: with SMTP id gc13mr7403589qvb.68.1642152867305;
Fri, 14 Jan 2022 01:34:27 -0800 (PST)
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6808:f8c:: with SMTP id o12mr6608878oiw.133.1642152867134;
Fri, 14 Jan 2022 01:34:27 -0800 (PST)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!news.uzoreto.com!2.eu.feeder.erje.net!2.us.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!border1.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: soc.history.medieval
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2022 01:34:26 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <702e2838-4ffc-4eb1-86ec-cc68a9521f87n@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=82.8.180.208; posting-account=jnS2rgoAAABUhO0O4ijD6B2aG99Mj6S0
NNTP-Posting-Host: 82.8.180.208
References: <702e2838-4ffc-4eb1-86ec-cc68a9521f87n@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <adf586c6-6a73-42b7-b9f8-511ebe799c4bn@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Digging For Britain - Has The Birthplace of Saint Patrick Been Discovered?
From: alanspen...@googlemail.com (Surreyman)
Injection-Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2022 09:34:27 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Lines: 111
 by: Surreyman - Fri, 14 Jan 2022 09:34 UTC

On Thursday, January 13, 2022 at 11:51:46 AM UTC, David Read wrote:
> Shown in the BBC's "Digging For Britain" archaeology TV series last night was the ongoing excavation of a previously unknown Roman site in Somerset. The site is extensive, possibly even that of a small town.
>
> See:- https://oxfordarchaeology.com/news/958-bbc-series-digging-for-britain-featuring-somerset-roman-town-excavation
>
> from which this is taken:-
> ....................................................
>
> "10th January 2022:
> The latest series of the BBC's flagship archaeology programme, Digging for Britain, will feature National Grid's Hinkley Connection Project and Oxford Archaeology's excavation of a nationally significant Roman settlement in Somerset this week.
>
> The site was discovered during the pre-construction phase of underground cabling work on National Grid’s Hinkley Connection Project. Over the last two years, Oxford Archaeology with National Grid and Balfour Beatty, completed one of the most intensively excavated slices through a Roman roadside settlement undertaken in the UK to date. The site is exceptionally well preserved: Layer after layer of settlement remains were meticulously excavated and recorded using cutting edge photogrammetry methods. Remains include houses, barns, roads, and wells. Numerous crop-driers or malting ovens show that this part of the settlement was involved in agricultural production and part of the site may have been a butcher’s shop. Numerous newborn infant burials were found buried within the settlement, in accordance with standard Roman burial customs. The Roman settlement seems to have been an important regional market centre at a road junction and river crossing in the Mendip Hills. Although occupied from the 1st Century to the 4th the settlement appears to have experienced an economic boom in the reigns of the Emperor Constantine and his successors in the first half of the 4th century AD.
>
> The excavations were planned and carried out as part of the Hinkley Connection Project, a new high-voltage electricity connection between Bridgwater and Seabank near Avonmouth. This project is a significant investment in the SW region’s electricity network and will enable National Grid to connect new sources of low-carbon energy to homes and businesses, including Hinkley Point C, EDF Energy’s new power station in Somerset. The project will play a vital role in delivering electricity safely, efficiently and reliably, and support the UK’s ambition to achieve its net zero by 2050 target. The new connection will be 57 kilometres long – consisting of 48.5 kilometres of overhead line and 8.5 kilometres of underground cable through the Mendip Hills Area of Outstanding Natural Beauty (AONB). Further information can be found on the National Grid and project websites, at the links below:
> Details of the Hinkley Connection Project: https://hinkleyconnection.co.uk/project-summary
> Future updates on the archaeology: https://hinkleyconnection.co.uk/archaeology
> Previously published article on the archaeology: https://www.nationalgrid..com/uk/stories/grid-at-work-stories/going-underground-archaeological-finds-somerset
>
> The site, located near Winscombe in Somerset, is featured in episode 5 of the series, being broadcast at 8pm on Wednesday 12th January on BBC Two and will be available afterwards on demand on BBCiPlayer: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0013f61 Digging for Britain is hosted by Professor Alice Roberts, and she visited the excavations last year to meet the team.
>
> Following completion of the archaeological excavations, all artefacts have been recovered and recorded, the underground cables are in place and the land has been reinstated. With our partners National Grid and Balfour Beatty, we gave a presentation on the results to Local Society members in September 2021. Further academic reports and publicity are in the planning stages.."
> ................................................................................................
>
> Although the programme made no connection with Saint Patrick, I was struck by the possibilty that this might have been his birthplace.
>
> Back in October 2002 in an s.h.m. thread called "Strathclyde?" I posted the following:-
>
> "Ken Dark writes:-
>
> "Patrick writes at length in Latin, refers to grammatici in Britain
> (scholars of secular higher education in Latin learning), and expects
> his readers to be well-educated in the Roman manner. Like his
> contemporary in Gaul, Sidonius Apollinaris, he is a third-generation
> Christian, well-acquainted with both the Late Roman Church hierarchy
> and with monasticism. As a boy he lived at a villa-estate (villula)
> near a `small town' apparently close to a major town, with formal
> Roman-style administration in which his father had a role. That is,
> Patrick had grown up in exactly the sort of `settlement pattern'
> archaeology tells us characterised the late fourth-century Romano-
> British landscape, but this is unlikely to be much before 450. When
> he returned home, after his escape from slavery, relatives attempted
> to persuade him to run the still-surviving estate. This is clear
> evidence that the basic rural fabric of Late Roman Britain survived
> well into the fifth century alongside the emergence of a Christian
> society with bishops, priests, monks and nuns. Patrick tries to tell
> us in the Confessio exactly where his parental home was (Bannaventa
> taberniae), but the place-name is unknown to modern scholars. It was
> clearly an area with villas, `small' and `large' towns, and probably
> accessible directly from Ireland by sea. The West Country seems the
> most likely location, perhaps Somerset near the Severn estuary
> but it is impossible to be sure." p.33
>
>
> _Britain and the End of the Roman Empire_ Tempus 2000"
>
> Stay tuned, I think, is the order of the day.
>
> Cheers,
>
> David Read

Fascinating, but hardly any connective case?

Re: Digging For Britain - Has The Birthplace of Saint Patrick Been Discovered?

<cbd1456c-ae09-41e6-92f1-80a02fc5a1c0n@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=1775&group=soc.history.medieval#1775

 copy link   Newsgroups: soc.history.medieval
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6214:238e:: with SMTP id fw14mr7766414qvb.86.1642161662115;
Fri, 14 Jan 2022 04:01:02 -0800 (PST)
X-Received: by 2002:aca:62d7:: with SMTP id w206mr12736544oib.90.1642161661335;
Fri, 14 Jan 2022 04:01:01 -0800 (PST)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!news.misty.com!border2.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: soc.history.medieval
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2022 04:01:01 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <adf586c6-6a73-42b7-b9f8-511ebe799c4bn@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=95.145.163.72; posting-account=PJ-hVQoAAAAzJScQY07BWs8zcNmQAkHC
NNTP-Posting-Host: 95.145.163.72
References: <702e2838-4ffc-4eb1-86ec-cc68a9521f87n@googlegroups.com> <adf586c6-6a73-42b7-b9f8-511ebe799c4bn@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <cbd1456c-ae09-41e6-92f1-80a02fc5a1c0n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Digging For Britain - Has The Birthplace of Saint Patrick Been Discovered?
From: david.re...@gmail.com (David Read)
Injection-Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2022 12:01:02 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Lines: 17
 by: David Read - Fri, 14 Jan 2022 12:01 UTC

On Friday, January 14, 2022 at 9:34:27 AM UTC, Surreyman wrote:

> Fascinating, but hardly any connective case?

Well, quite, which is why I put a question mark in the title of the thread and said "stay tuned".

That said, this new site seems to me to be a reasonable candidate for having been Saint Patrick's birthplace, perhaps even better than any other speculations so far, and certainly better than Strathclyde.

See also:-

http://www.vortigernstudies.org.uk/artgue/guestjelley.htm

where Harry Jelley (what a great name!) places it at Banwell in Somerset.

Cheers,

David Read

Re: Digging For Britain - Has The Birthplace of Saint Patrick Been Discovered?

<1y163oqb30pny.7h5ryvw1mh98.dlg@40tude.net>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=1778&group=soc.history.medieval#1778

 copy link   Newsgroups: soc.history.medieval
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Solom...@citi.com (SolomonW)
Newsgroups: soc.history.medieval
Subject: Re: Digging For Britain - Has The Birthplace of Saint Patrick Been Discovered?
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2022 15:11:35 +1100
Organization: Truth with honesty
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <1y163oqb30pny.7h5ryvw1mh98.dlg@40tude.net>
References: <702e2838-4ffc-4eb1-86ec-cc68a9521f87n@googlegroups.com> <adf586c6-6a73-42b7-b9f8-511ebe799c4bn@googlegroups.com> <cbd1456c-ae09-41e6-92f1-80a02fc5a1c0n@googlegroups.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Injection-Info: reader02.eternal-september.org; posting-host="6d8bb85c8ec00264ead33ae157464700";
logging-data="14630"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/0idIgCpjj4nbmQeCg0CZ2nXaofthwbCA="
User-Agent: 40tude_Dialog/2.0.15.1
Cancel-Lock: sha1:6y6xBmIuic+8hWMVoYEDLSmIf9U=
 by: SolomonW - Sun, 16 Jan 2022 04:11 UTC

On Fri, 14 Jan 2022 04:01:01 -0800 (PST), David Read wrote:

> On Friday, January 14, 2022 at 9:34:27 AM UTC, Surreyman wrote:
>
>> Fascinating, but hardly any connective case?
>
>
> Well, quite, which is why I put a question mark in the title of the thread and said "stay tuned".
>
> That said, this new site seems to me to be a reasonable candidate for having been Saint Patrick's birthplace, perhaps even better than any other speculations so far, and certainly better than Strathclyde.
>
> See also:-
>
> http://www.vortigernstudies.org.uk/artgue/guestjelley.htm
>
> where Harry Jelley (what a great name!) places it at Banwell in Somerset.
>
> Cheers,
>
> David Read

I will be pleased and surprised if something is found that can be shown to
be from St Patrick.

Re: Digging For Britain - Has The Birthplace of Saint Patrick Been Discovered?

<to49ugh5cdbnh1obehhpmbooa40t34cloh@4ax.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=1783&group=soc.history.medieval#1783

 copy link   Newsgroups: soc.history.medieval
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!news.uzoreto.com!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed9.news.xs4all.nl!news-out.netnews.com!news.alt.net!fdc2.netnews.com!peer03.ams1!peer.ams1.xlned.com!news.xlned.com!peer02.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!fx46.iad.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: lcra...@home.ca (The Horny Goat)
Newsgroups: soc.history.medieval
Subject: Re: Digging For Britain - Has The Birthplace of Saint Patrick Been Discovered?
Message-ID: <to49ugh5cdbnh1obehhpmbooa40t34cloh@4ax.com>
References: <702e2838-4ffc-4eb1-86ec-cc68a9521f87n@googlegroups.com> <adf586c6-6a73-42b7-b9f8-511ebe799c4bn@googlegroups.com> <cbd1456c-ae09-41e6-92f1-80a02fc5a1c0n@googlegroups.com> <1y163oqb30pny.7h5ryvw1mh98.dlg@40tude.net>
User-Agent: ForteAgent/8.00.32.1272
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Lines: 22
X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com
Organization: Easynews - www.easynews.com
X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly.
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2022 13:55:55 -0800
X-Received-Bytes: 2190
 by: The Horny Goat - Sun, 16 Jan 2022 21:55 UTC

On Sun, 16 Jan 2022 15:11:35 +1100, SolomonW <SolomonW@citi.com>
wrote:

>I will be pleased and surprised if something is found that can be shown to
>be from St Patrick.

So would I - and I'd be even more amazed if it could be proven.

Richard III, Anne Boleyn and Katherine Howard all have been proven by
DNA evidence (can't remember my source on Richard III but it was in a
BBC video, while the other two the tour guide at the Tower of London
shared that when we were visiting the chapel as part of our tour in
2016 - he said it had been within the last 12-18 months at that time
and that they were very proud to be able to say they were 99+% certain
on both of them. Turned out their bones were in a field next to the
chapel and that they were the only two skeletons who were DEFINITELY
noble - e.g. had no signs of ever having been short on nutrition - and
that therefore they tested the two more careful than the others as
they knew both beheaded queens had been interred there and they had
confirmed remains from others of their families) and both showed signs
of beheading which isn't as odd as it sounds as they always buried the
heads with the rest of the deceased's body.

1
server_pubkey.txt

rocksolid light 0.9.7
clearnet tor