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interests / alt.obituaries / Re: Russian Deaths in Ukraine

SubjectAuthor
* Russian Deaths in UkraineLouis Epstein
`* Re: Russian Deaths in UkraineLouis Epstein
 `* Re: Russian Deaths in UkraineLouis Epstein
  `* Re: Russian Deaths in UkraineLouis Epstein
   `* Re: Russian Deaths in UkraineLouis Epstein
    `* Re: Russian Deaths in UkraineLouis Epstein
     `* Re: Russian Deaths in UkraineLouis Epstein
      +* Re: Russian Deaths in UkraineFelix Badde
      |`- Re: Russian Deaths in UkraineLouis Epstein
      `* Re: Russian Deaths in UkraineLouis Epstein
       `* Re: Russian Deaths in UkraineLouis Epstein
        `* Re: Russian Deaths in UkraineLouis Epstein
         `* Re: Russian Deaths in UkraineLouis Epstein
          `* Re: Russian Deaths in UkraineLouis Epstein
           `* Re: Russian Deaths in UkraineLouis Epstein
            +* Re: Russian Deaths in UkraineRaul TW
            |`* Re: Russian Deaths in UkraineLouis Epstein
            | `* Re: Russian Deaths in UkraineRaul TW
            |  `* Re: Russian Deaths in UkraineLouis Epstein
            |   `- Re: Russian Deaths in UkraineRaul TW
            `* Re: Russian Deaths in UkraineLouis Epstein
             +* Re: Russian Deaths in UkraineRaul TW
             |`* Re: Russian Deaths in UkraineBob Martin
             | `* Re: Russian Deaths in UkraineRaul TW
             |  `- Re: Russian Deaths in UkraineRaul TW
             `* Re: Russian Deaths in UkraineLouis Epstein
              `* Re: Russian Deaths in UkraineLouis Epstein
               +- Re: Russian Deaths in UkraineRaul TW
               `* Re: Russian Deaths in UkraineLouis Epstein
                `* Re: Russian Deaths in UkraineLouis Epstein
                 `* Re: Russian Deaths in UkraineLouis Epstein
                  `* Re: Russian Deaths in UkraineLouis Epstein
                   `* Re: Russian Deaths in UkraineLouis Epstein
                    `* Re: Russian Deaths in UkraineLouis Epstein
                     `* Re: Russian Deaths in UkraineLouis Epstein
                      `* Re: Russian Deaths in UkraineLouis Epstein
                       `* Re: Russian Deaths in UkraineLouis Epstein
                        +* Re: Russian Deaths in UkraineAdam H. Kerman
                        |+* Re: Russian Deaths in UkraineLouis Epstein
                        ||`* Re: Russian Deaths in UkraineKenny McCormack
                        || +* Re: Russian Deaths in UkraineAdam H. Kerman
                        || |`* Re: Russian Deaths in UkraineKenny McCormack
                        || | `* Re: Russian Deaths in UkraineAdam H. Kerman
                        || |  `* Re: Russian Deaths in UkraineKenny McCormack
                        || |   `- Re: Russian Deaths in UkraineAdam H. Kerman
                        || `* Re: Russian Deaths in UkraineLouis Epstein
                        ||  `- Re: Russian Deaths in UkraineKenny McCormack
                        |`- Re: Russian Deaths in UkraineLouis Epstein
                        `* Re: Russian Deaths in UkraineLouis Epstein
                         +* Re: Russian Deaths in Ukraineradioacti...@gmail.com
                         |+* Re: Russian Deaths in UkraineRaul TW
                         ||`- Re: Russian Deaths in UkraineRaul TW
                         |`- Re: Russian Deaths in UkraineLouis Epstein
                         `* Re: Russian Deaths in UkraineLouis Epstein
                          `* Re: Russian Deaths in UkraineLouis Epstein
                           `* Re: Russian Deaths in UkraineLouis Epstein
                            `* Re: Russian Deaths in UkraineLouis Epstein
                             `* Re: Russian Deaths in UkraineLouis Epstein
                              `* Re: Russian Deaths in UkraineLouis Epstein
                               +- Re: Russian Deaths in UkraineAdam H. Kerman
                               `* Re: Russian Deaths in UkraineLouis Epstein
                                `* Re: Russian Deaths in UkraineLouis Epstein
                                 `* Re: Russian Deaths in UkraineLouis Epstein
                                  `* Re: Russian Deaths in UkraineLouis Epstein
                                   `* Re: Russian Deaths in UkraineLouis Epstein
                                    `* Re: Russian Deaths in UkraineLouis Epstein
                                     `* Re: Russian Deaths in UkraineLouis Epstein
                                      `* Re: Russian Deaths in UkraineLouis Epstein
                                       `* Re: Russian Deaths in UkraineLouis Epstein
                                        `* Re: Russian Deaths in UkraineLouis Epstein
                                         `* Re: Russian Deaths in UkraineLouis Epstein
                                          `* Re: Russian Deaths in UkraineLouis Epstein
                                           `* Re: Russian Deaths in UkraineLouis Epstein
                                            `* Re: Russian Deaths in UkraineLouis Epstein
                                             `* Re: Russian Deaths in UkraineLouis Epstein
                                              `* Re: Russian Deaths in UkraineLouis Epstein
                                               `* Re: Russian Deaths in UkraineLouis Epstein
                                                `* Re: Russian Deaths in UkraineLouis Epstein
                                                 `* Re: Russian Deaths in UkraineLouis Epstein
                                                  `* Re: Russian Deaths in UkraineLouis Epstein
                                                   `* Re: Russian Deaths in UkraineLouis Epstein
                                                    `- Re: Russian Deaths in UkraineLouis Epstein

Pages:1234
Russian Deaths in Ukraine

<u0fj6k$hu6$1@reader2.panix.com>

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From: le...@main.lekno.ws (Louis Epstein)
Newsgroups: alt.obituaries
Subject: Russian Deaths in Ukraine
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2023 22:15:48 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and UNIX, NYC
Message-ID: <u0fj6k$hu6$1@reader2.panix.com>
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 by: Louis Epstein - Mon, 3 Apr 2023 22:15 UTC

Something seems to have made old messages & threads
inaccessible at Panix?

In any case,the reported (by Ukraine) number of Russian
military deaths in Ukraine passed 175,000 on the 404th day
of the invasion (a much bloodier pace,as my old thread noted,
than American losses in Vietnam,though less than the Russians
lost against Napoleon or Hitler).

http://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/04/7396148/

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

Re: Russian Deaths in Ukraine

<u15igd$649$1@reader2.panix.com>

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From: le...@main.lekno.ws (Louis Epstein)
Newsgroups: alt.obituaries
Subject: Re: Russian Deaths in Ukraine
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2023 06:18:53 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and UNIX, NYC
Message-ID: <u15igd$649$1@reader2.panix.com>
References: <u0fj6k$hu6$1@reader2.panix.com>
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User-Agent: tin/2.6.2-20221225 ("Pittyvaich") (FreeBSD/12.4-RELEASE-p1 (amd64))
 by: Louis Epstein - Wed, 12 Apr 2023 06:18 UTC

Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
> Something seems to have made old messages & threads
> inaccessible at Panix?

(Apparently it was a massive dump of binaries erasing the
news server's scroll)
> In any case,the reported (by Ukraine) number of Russian
> military deaths in Ukraine passed 175,000 on the 404th day
> of the invasion (a much bloodier pace,as my old thread noted,
> than American losses in Vietnam,though less than the Russians
> lost against Napoleon or Hitler).
>
> http://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/04/7396148/

Despite a slowing of pace,the 180,000 death mark was passed
on day 413:
http://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/04/12/7397476/

The @KilledinUkraine Twitter account hasn't updated their
graphic since the 2,000 mark of verified dead Russian
officers was reached on March 28th.
But the steadily updated Googledoc has reached 2046:
54 colonels,138 lieutenant colonels,268 Majors,375 captains among them.

> -=-=-
> The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
> at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

Re: Russian Deaths in Ukraine

<u1ud9d$p7v$1@reader2.panix.com>

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From: le...@main.lekno.ws (Louis Epstein)
Newsgroups: alt.obituaries
Subject: Re: Russian Deaths in Ukraine
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2023 16:23:09 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and UNIX, NYC
Message-ID: <u1ud9d$p7v$1@reader2.panix.com>
References: <u0fj6k$hu6$1@reader2.panix.com> <u15igd$649$1@reader2.panix.com>
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User-Agent: tin/2.6.2-20221225 ("Pittyvaich") (FreeBSD/12.4-RELEASE-p1 (amd64))
 by: Louis Epstein - Fri, 21 Apr 2023 16:23 UTC

Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
> Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>> Something seems to have made old messages & threads
>> inaccessible at Panix?
>
> (Apparently it was a massive dump of binaries erasing the
> news server's scroll)
>
>> In any case,the reported (by Ukraine) number of Russian
>> military deaths in Ukraine passed 175,000 on the 404th day
>> of the invasion (a much bloodier pace,as my old thread noted,
>> than American losses in Vietnam,though less than the Russians
>> lost against Napoleon or Hitler).
>>
>> http://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/04/7396148/
>
> Despite a slowing of pace,the 180,000 death mark was passed
> on day 413:
> http://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/04/12/7397476/

185,000 deaths were reached on day 422:
http://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/04/21/7398803/
> The @KilledinUkraine Twitter account hasn't updated their
> graphic since the 2,000 mark of verified dead Russian
> officers was reached on March 28th.
> But the steadily updated Googledoc has reached 2046:
> 54 colonels,138 lieutenant colonels,268 Majors,375 captains among them.

Graphic updated today to 2,085,
139 LtCols,265 Majors,387 Captains...no new colonels.

>> -=-=-
>> The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
>> at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

Re: Russian Deaths in Ukraine

<u2ig60$ji7$1@reader2.panix.com>

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From: le...@main.lekno.ws (Louis Epstein)
Newsgroups: alt.obituaries
Subject: Re: Russian Deaths in Ukraine
Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2023 07:15:12 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and UNIX, NYC
Message-ID: <u2ig60$ji7$1@reader2.panix.com>
References: <u0fj6k$hu6$1@reader2.panix.com> <u15igd$649$1@reader2.panix.com> <u1ud9d$p7v$1@reader2.panix.com>
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 by: Louis Epstein - Sat, 29 Apr 2023 07:15 UTC

Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
> Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>> Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>>> Something seems to have made old messages & threads
>>> inaccessible at Panix?
>>
>> (Apparently it was a massive dump of binaries erasing the
>> news server's scroll)
>>
>>> In any case,the reported (by Ukraine) number of Russian
>>> military deaths in Ukraine passed 175,000 on the 404th day
>>> of the invasion (a much bloodier pace,as my old thread noted,
>>> than American losses in Vietnam,though less than the Russians
>>> lost against Napoleon or Hitler).
>>>
>>> http://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/04/7396148/
>>
>> Despite a slowing of pace,the 180,000 death mark was passed
>> on day 413:
>> http://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/04/12/7397476/
>
> 185,000 deaths were reached on day 422:
> http://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/04/21/7398803/

190,000 deaths were reached on day 430:
https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/04/29/7399953/


>> The @KilledinUkraine Twitter account hasn't updated their
>> graphic since the 2,000 mark of verified dead Russian
>> officers was reached on March 28th.
>> But the steadily updated Googledoc has reached 2046:
>> 54 colonels,138 lieutenant colonels,268 Majors,375 captains among them.
>
> Graphic updated today to 2,085,
> 139 LtCols,265 Majors,387 Captains...no new colonels.

Graphic says 2,111 dead as of April 27,
Googledoc is up to 2,117 with 273 majors (no higher ranked additions
and some of these a year in arrears before being identified),392
captains.

>>> -=-=-
>>> The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
>>> at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

Re: Russian Deaths in Ukraine

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From: le...@main.lekno.ws (Louis Epstein)
Newsgroups: alt.obituaries
Subject: Re: Russian Deaths in Ukraine
Date: Tue, 9 May 2023 07:05:39 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and UNIX, NYC
Message-ID: <u3crc3$m55$1@reader2.panix.com>
References: <u0fj6k$hu6$1@reader2.panix.com> <u15igd$649$1@reader2.panix.com> <u1ud9d$p7v$1@reader2.panix.com> <u2ig60$ji7$1@reader2.panix.com>
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 by: Louis Epstein - Tue, 9 May 2023 07:05 UTC

Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
> Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>> Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>>> Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>>>> Something seems to have made old messages & threads
>>>> inaccessible at Panix?
>>>
>>> (Apparently it was a massive dump of binaries erasing the
>>> news server's scroll)
>>>
>>>> In any case,the reported (by Ukraine) number of Russian
>>>> military deaths in Ukraine passed 175,000 on the 404th day
>>>> of the invasion (a much bloodier pace,as my old thread noted,
>>>> than American losses in Vietnam,though less than the Russians
>>>> lost against Napoleon or Hitler).
>>>>
>>>> http://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/04/7396148/
>>>
>>> Despite a slowing of pace,the 180,000 death mark was passed
>>> on day 413:
>>> http://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/04/12/7397476/
>>
>> 185,000 deaths were reached on day 422:
>> http://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/04/21/7398803/
>
> 190,000 deaths were reached on day 430:
> https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/04/29/7399953/

195,000 deaths were reached on day 440:
https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/05/9/7401282/

>>> The @KilledinUkraine Twitter account hasn't updated their
>>> graphic since the 2,000 mark of verified dead Russian
>>> officers was reached on March 28th.
>>> But the steadily updated Googledoc has reached 2046:
>>> 54 colonels,138 lieutenant colonels,268 Majors,375 captains among them.
>>
>> Graphic updated today to 2,085,
>> 139 LtCols,265 Majors,387 Captains...no new colonels.
>
> Graphic says 2,111 dead as of April 27,
> Googledoc is up to 2,117 with 273 majors (no higher ranked additions
> and some of these a year in arrears before being identified),392
> captains.

Graphic not updated.
Googledoc is up to 2128 with the 141 LtCols,no new majors,395 captains.

>>>> -=-=-
>>>> The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
>>>> at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

Re: Russian Deaths in Ukraine

<u424k5$kb0$1@reader2.panix.com>

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From: le...@main.lekno.ws (Louis Epstein)
Newsgroups: alt.obituaries
Subject: Re: Russian Deaths in Ukraine
Date: Wed, 17 May 2023 08:52:21 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and UNIX, NYC
Message-ID: <u424k5$kb0$1@reader2.panix.com>
References: <u0fj6k$hu6$1@reader2.panix.com> <u15igd$649$1@reader2.panix.com> <u1ud9d$p7v$1@reader2.panix.com> <u2ig60$ji7$1@reader2.panix.com> <u3crc3$m55$1@reader2.panix.com>
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 by: Louis Epstein - Wed, 17 May 2023 08:52 UTC

Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
> Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>> Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>>> Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>>>> Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>>>>> Something seems to have made old messages & threads
>>>>> inaccessible at Panix?
>>>>
>>>> (Apparently it was a massive dump of binaries erasing the
>>>> news server's scroll)
>>>>
>>>>> In any case,the reported (by Ukraine) number of Russian
>>>>> military deaths in Ukraine passed 175,000 on the 404th day
>>>>> of the invasion (a much bloodier pace,as my old thread noted,
>>>>> than American losses in Vietnam,though less than the Russians
>>>>> lost against Napoleon or Hitler).
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/04/7396148/
>>>>
>>>> Despite a slowing of pace,the 180,000 death mark was passed
>>>> on day 413:
>>>> http://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/04/12/7397476/
>>>
>>> 185,000 deaths were reached on day 422:
>>> http://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/04/21/7398803/
>>
>> 190,000 deaths were reached on day 430:
>> https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/04/29/7399953/
>
> 195,000 deaths were reached on day 440:
> https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/05/9/7401282/

200,000 deaths were reached on day 448:
https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/05/9/7402549/

>>>> The @KilledinUkraine Twitter account hasn't updated their
>>>> graphic since the 2,000 mark of verified dead Russian
>>>> officers was reached on March 28th.
>>>> But the steadily updated Googledoc has reached 2046:
>>>> 54 colonels,138 lieutenant colonels,268 Majors,375 captains among them.
>>>
>>> Graphic updated today to 2,085,
>>> 139 LtCols,265 Majors,387 Captains...no new colonels.
>>
>> Graphic says 2,111 dead as of April 27,
>> Googledoc is up to 2,117 with 273 majors (no higher ranked additions
>> and some of these a year in arrears before being identified),392
>> captains.
>
> Graphic not updated.
> Googledoc is up to 2128 with the 141 LtCols,no new majors,395 captains.

Graphic now 2160 dead as of May 11.
Googledoc now 2185,with 56 Colonels (the two new ones died together in
a Ukrainian strike,others may have been present too),145 LtCols,
279 Majors,407 captains.

>>>>> -=-=-
>>>>> The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
>>>>> at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

Re: Russian Deaths in Ukraine

<u4mti8$1tk$1@reader2.panix.com>

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From: le...@main.lekno.ws (Louis Epstein)
Newsgroups: alt.obituaries
Subject: Re: Russian Deaths in Ukraine
Date: Thu, 25 May 2023 06:00:40 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and UNIX, NYC
Message-ID: <u4mti8$1tk$1@reader2.panix.com>
References: <u0fj6k$hu6$1@reader2.panix.com> <u15igd$649$1@reader2.panix.com> <u1ud9d$p7v$1@reader2.panix.com> <u2ig60$ji7$1@reader2.panix.com> <u3crc3$m55$1@reader2.panix.com> <u424k5$kb0$1@reader2.panix.com>
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 by: Louis Epstein - Thu, 25 May 2023 06:00 UTC

Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
> Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>> Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>>> Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>>>> Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>>>>> Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>>>>>> Something seems to have made old messages & threads
>>>>>> inaccessible at Panix?
>>>>>
>>>>> (Apparently it was a massive dump of binaries erasing the
>>>>> news server's scroll)
>>>>>
>>>>>> In any case,the reported (by Ukraine) number of Russian
>>>>>> military deaths in Ukraine passed 175,000 on the 404th day
>>>>>> of the invasion (a much bloodier pace,as my old thread noted,
>>>>>> than American losses in Vietnam,though less than the Russians
>>>>>> lost against Napoleon or Hitler).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/04/7396148/
>>>>>
>>>>> Despite a slowing of pace,the 180,000 death mark was passed
>>>>> on day 413:
>>>>> http://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/04/12/7397476/
>>>>
>>>> 185,000 deaths were reached on day 422:
>>>> http://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/04/21/7398803/
>>>
>>> 190,000 deaths were reached on day 430:
>>> https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/04/29/7399953/
>>
>> 195,000 deaths were reached on day 440:
>> https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/05/9/7401282/
>
> 200,000 deaths were reached on day 448:
> https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/05/17/7402549/
[URL CORRECTED ABOVE]

205,000 deaths were reached on day 456:
https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/05/25/7403758/

>>>>> The @KilledinUkraine Twitter account hasn't updated their
>>>>> graphic since the 2,000 mark of verified dead Russian
>>>>> officers was reached on March 28th.
>>>>> But the steadily updated Googledoc has reached 2046:
>>>>> 54 colonels,138 lieutenant colonels,268 Majors,375 captains among them.
>>>>
>>>> Graphic updated today to 2,085,
>>>> 139 LtCols,265 Majors,387 Captains...no new colonels.
>>>
>>> Graphic says 2,111 dead as of April 27,
>>> Googledoc is up to 2,117 with 273 majors (no higher ranked additions
>>> and some of these a year in arrears before being identified),392
>>> captains.
>>
>> Graphic not updated.
>> Googledoc is up to 2128 with the 141 LtCols,no new majors,395 captains.
>
> Graphic now 2160 dead as of May 11.

Not updated.

> Googledoc now 2185,with 56 Colonels (the two new ones died together in
> a Ukrainian strike,others may have been present too),145 LtCols,
> 279 Majors,407 captains.

2210,with 146 LtCols,281 Majors,415 Captains.
>>>>>> -=-=-
>>>>>> The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
>>>>>> at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

Re: Russian Deaths in Ukraine

<5027d784-ac4e-40bf-8e09-6d6f73aaea00n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: Russian Deaths in Ukraine
From: jr.ba...@gmail.com (Felix Badde)
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 by: Felix Badde - Thu, 25 May 2023 16:47 UTC

On Wednesday, May 24, 2023 at 11:02:56 PM UTC-7, Louis Epstein wrote:
> Louis Epstein <l...@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
> > Louis Epstein <l...@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
> >> Louis Epstein <l...@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
> >>> Louis Epstein <l...@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
> >>>> Louis Epstein <l...@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
> >>>>> Louis Epstein <l...@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
> >>>>>> Something seems to have made old messages & threads
> >>>>>> inaccessible at Panix?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> (Apparently it was a massive dump of binaries erasing the
> >>>>> news server's scroll)
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> In any case,the reported (by Ukraine) number of Russian
> >>>>>> military deaths in Ukraine passed 175,000 on the 404th day
> >>>>>> of the invasion (a much bloodier pace,as my old thread noted,
> >>>>>> than American losses in Vietnam,though less than the Russians
> >>>>>> lost against Napoleon or Hitler).
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> http://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/04/7396148/
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Despite a slowing of pace,the 180,000 death mark was passed
> >>>>> on day 413:
> >>>>> http://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/04/12/7397476/
> >>>>
> >>>> 185,000 deaths were reached on day 422:
> >>>> http://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/04/21/7398803/
> >>>
> >>> 190,000 deaths were reached on day 430:
> >>> https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/04/29/7399953/
> >>
> >> 195,000 deaths were reached on day 440:
> >> https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/05/9/7401282/
> >
> > 200,000 deaths were reached on day 448:
> > https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/05/17/7402549/
> [URL CORRECTED ABOVE]
>
> 205,000 deaths were reached on day 456:
> https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/05/25/7403758/
> >>>>> The @KilledinUkraine Twitter account hasn't updated their
> >>>>> graphic since the 2,000 mark of verified dead Russian
> >>>>> officers was reached on March 28th.
> >>>>> But the steadily updated Googledoc has reached 2046:
> >>>>> 54 colonels,138 lieutenant colonels,268 Majors,375 captains among them.
> >>>>
> >>>> Graphic updated today to 2,085,
> >>>> 139 LtCols,265 Majors,387 Captains...no new colonels.
> >>>
> >>> Graphic says 2,111 dead as of April 27,
> >>> Googledoc is up to 2,117 with 273 majors (no higher ranked additions
> >>> and some of these a year in arrears before being identified),392
> >>> captains.
> >>
> >> Graphic not updated.
> >> Googledoc is up to 2128 with the 141 LtCols,no new majors,395 captains..
> >
> > Graphic now 2160 dead as of May 11.
> Not updated.
> > Googledoc now 2185,with 56 Colonels (the two new ones died together in
> > a Ukrainian strike,others may have been present too),145 LtCols,
> > 279 Majors,407 captains.
> 2210,with 146 LtCols,281 Majors,415 Captains.
> >>>>>> -=-=-
> >>>>>> The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
> >>>>>> at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

is it really you?? MR EPSTEIN???

Re: Russian Deaths in Ukraine

<u4r5fi$f71$1@reader2.panix.com>

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From: le...@main.lekno.ws (Louis Epstein)
Newsgroups: alt.obituaries
Subject: Re: Russian Deaths in Ukraine
Date: Fri, 26 May 2023 20:40:18 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and UNIX, NYC
Message-ID: <u4r5fi$f71$1@reader2.panix.com>
References: <u0fj6k$hu6$1@reader2.panix.com> <u15igd$649$1@reader2.panix.com> <u1ud9d$p7v$1@reader2.panix.com> <u2ig60$ji7$1@reader2.panix.com> <u3crc3$m55$1@reader2.panix.com> <u424k5$kb0$1@reader2.panix.com> <u4mti8$1tk$1@reader2.panix.com> <5027d784-ac4e-40bf-8e09-6d6f73aaea00n@googlegroups.com>
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 by: Louis Epstein - Fri, 26 May 2023 20:40 UTC

Felix Badde <jr.badde@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 24, 2023 at 11:02:56?PM UTC-7, Louis Epstein wrote:
>> Louis Epstein <l...@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>> > Louis Epstein <l...@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>> >> Louis Epstein <l...@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>> >>> Louis Epstein <l...@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>> >>>> Louis Epstein <l...@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>> >>>>> Louis Epstein <l...@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>> >>>>>> Something seems to have made old messages & threads
>> >>>>>> inaccessible at Panix?
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> (Apparently it was a massive dump of binaries erasing the
>> >>>>> news server's scroll)
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> In any case,the reported (by Ukraine) number of Russian
>> >>>>>> military deaths in Ukraine passed 175,000 on the 404th day
>> >>>>>> of the invasion (a much bloodier pace,as my old thread noted,
>> >>>>>> than American losses in Vietnam,though less than the Russians
>> >>>>>> lost against Napoleon or Hitler).
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> http://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/04/7396148/
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Despite a slowing of pace,the 180,000 death mark was passed
>> >>>>> on day 413:
>> >>>>> http://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/04/12/7397476/
>> >>>>
>> >>>> 185,000 deaths were reached on day 422:
>> >>>> http://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/04/21/7398803/
>> >>>
>> >>> 190,000 deaths were reached on day 430:
>> >>> https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/04/29/7399953/
>> >>
>> >> 195,000 deaths were reached on day 440:
>> >> https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/05/9/7401282/
>> >
>> > 200,000 deaths were reached on day 448:
>> > https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/05/17/7402549/
>> [URL CORRECTED ABOVE]
>>
>> 205,000 deaths were reached on day 456:
>> https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/05/25/7403758/
>> >>>>> The @KilledinUkraine Twitter account hasn't updated their
>> >>>>> graphic since the 2,000 mark of verified dead Russian
>> >>>>> officers was reached on March 28th.
>> >>>>> But the steadily updated Googledoc has reached 2046:
>> >>>>> 54 colonels,138 lieutenant colonels,268 Majors,375 captains among them.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Graphic updated today to 2,085,
>> >>>> 139 LtCols,265 Majors,387 Captains...no new colonels.
>> >>>
>> >>> Graphic says 2,111 dead as of April 27,
>> >>> Googledoc is up to 2,117 with 273 majors (no higher ranked additions
>> >>> and some of these a year in arrears before being identified),392
>> >>> captains.
>> >>
>> >> Graphic not updated.
>> >> Googledoc is up to 2128 with the 141 LtCols,no new majors,395 captains.
>> >
>> > Graphic now 2160 dead as of May 11.
>> Not updated.
>> > Googledoc now 2185,with 56 Colonels (the two new ones died together in
>> > a Ukrainian strike,others may have been present too),145 LtCols,
>> > 279 Majors,407 captains.
>> 2210,with 146 LtCols,281 Majors,415 Captains.
>
> is it really you?? MR EPSTEIN???

Do I know you from anywhere else?

>> >>>>>> -=-=-
>> >>>>>> The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
>> >>>>>> at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

Re: Russian Deaths in Ukraine

<u5jv37$hnp$1@reader1.panix.com>

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From: le...@main.lekno.ws (Louis Epstein)
Newsgroups: alt.obituaries
Subject: Re: Russian Deaths in Ukraine
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2023 06:24:39 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and UNIX, NYC
Message-ID: <u5jv37$hnp$1@reader1.panix.com>
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 by: Louis Epstein - Mon, 5 Jun 2023 06:24 UTC

Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
> Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>> Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>>> Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>>>> Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>>>>> Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>>>>>> Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>>>>>>> Something seems to have made old messages & threads
>>>>>>> inaccessible at Panix?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (Apparently it was a massive dump of binaries erasing the
>>>>>> news server's scroll)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In any case,the reported (by Ukraine) number of Russian
>>>>>>> military deaths in Ukraine passed 175,000 on the 404th day
>>>>>>> of the invasion (a much bloodier pace,as my old thread noted,
>>>>>>> than American losses in Vietnam,though less than the Russians
>>>>>>> lost against Napoleon or Hitler).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/04/7396148/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Despite a slowing of pace,the 180,000 death mark was passed
>>>>>> on day 413:
>>>>>> http://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/04/12/7397476/
>>>>>
>>>>> 185,000 deaths were reached on day 422:
>>>>> http://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/04/21/7398803/
>>>>
>>>> 190,000 deaths were reached on day 430:
>>>> https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/04/29/7399953/
>>>
>>> 195,000 deaths were reached on day 440:
>>> https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/05/9/7401282/
>>
>> 200,000 deaths were reached on day 448:
>> https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/05/17/7402549/
> [URL CORRECTED ABOVE]
>
> 205,000 deaths were reached on day 456:
> https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/05/25/7403758/

210,000 deaths were reached on day 467:
https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/06/5/7405302/

>>>>>> The @KilledinUkraine Twitter account hasn't updated their
>>>>>> graphic since the 2,000 mark of verified dead Russian
>>>>>> officers was reached on March 28th.
>>>>>> But the steadily updated Googledoc has reached 2046:
>>>>>> 54 colonels,138 lieutenant colonels,268 Majors,375 captains among them.
>>>>>
>>>>> Graphic updated today to 2,085,
>>>>> 139 LtCols,265 Majors,387 Captains...no new colonels.
>>>>
>>>> Graphic says 2,111 dead as of April 27,
>>>> Googledoc is up to 2,117 with 273 majors (no higher ranked additions
>>>> and some of these a year in arrears before being identified),392
>>>> captains.
>>>
>>> Graphic not updated.
>>> Googledoc is up to 2128 with the 141 LtCols,no new majors,395 captains.
>>
>> Graphic now 2160 dead as of May 11.
>
> Not updated.

Graphic now updated May 31 with 2222 dead.

>> Googledoc now 2185,with 56 Colonels (the two new ones died together in
>> a Ukrainian strike,others may have been present too),145 LtCols,
>> 279 Majors,407 captains.
>
> 2210,with 146 LtCols,281 Majors,415 Captains.

2230,with 149 LtCols,285 Majors,416 Captains.

>>>>>>> -=-=-
>>>>>>> The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
>>>>>>> at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

Re: Russian Deaths in Ukraine

<u63srm$hsa$1@reader1.panix.com>

  copy mid

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From: le...@main.lekno.ws (Louis Epstein)
Newsgroups: alt.obituaries
Subject: Re: Russian Deaths in Ukraine
Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2023 07:24:38 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and UNIX, NYC
Message-ID: <u63srm$hsa$1@reader1.panix.com>
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 by: Louis Epstein - Sun, 11 Jun 2023 07:24 UTC

Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
> Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>> Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>>> Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>>>> Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>>>>> Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>>>>>> Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>>>>>>> Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Something seems to have made old messages & threads
>>>>>>>> inaccessible at Panix?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (Apparently it was a massive dump of binaries erasing the
>>>>>>> news server's scroll)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In any case,the reported (by Ukraine) number of Russian
>>>>>>>> military deaths in Ukraine passed 175,000 on the 404th day
>>>>>>>> of the invasion (a much bloodier pace,as my old thread noted,
>>>>>>>> than American losses in Vietnam,though less than the Russians
>>>>>>>> lost against Napoleon or Hitler).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/04/7396148/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Despite a slowing of pace,the 180,000 death mark was passed
>>>>>>> on day 413:
>>>>>>> http://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/04/12/7397476/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 185,000 deaths were reached on day 422:
>>>>>> http://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/04/21/7398803/
>>>>>
>>>>> 190,000 deaths were reached on day 430:
>>>>> https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/04/29/7399953/
>>>>
>>>> 195,000 deaths were reached on day 440:
>>>> https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/05/9/7401282/
>>>
>>> 200,000 deaths were reached on day 448:
>>> https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/05/17/7402549/
>> [URL CORRECTED ABOVE]
>>
>> 205,000 deaths were reached on day 456:
>> https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/05/25/7403758/
>
> 210,000 deaths were reached on day 467:
> https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/06/5/7405302/

215,000 deaths were reached on day 473:
https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/06/11/7406323/

>>>>>>> The @KilledinUkraine Twitter account hasn't updated their
>>>>>>> graphic since the 2,000 mark of verified dead Russian
>>>>>>> officers was reached on March 28th.
>>>>>>> But the steadily updated Googledoc has reached 2046:
>>>>>>> 54 colonels,138 lieutenant colonels,268 Majors,375 captains among them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Graphic updated today to 2,085,
>>>>>> 139 LtCols,265 Majors,387 Captains...no new colonels.
>>>>>
>>>>> Graphic says 2,111 dead as of April 27,
>>>>> Googledoc is up to 2,117 with 273 majors (no higher ranked additions
>>>>> and some of these a year in arrears before being identified),392
>>>>> captains.
>>>>
>>>> Graphic not updated.
>>>> Googledoc is up to 2128 with the 141 LtCols,no new majors,395 captains.
>>>
>>> Graphic now 2160 dead as of May 11.
>>
>> Not updated.
>
> Graphic now updated May 31 with 2222 dead.

Not updated since.

>>> Googledoc now 2185,with 56 Colonels (the two new ones died together in
>>> a Ukrainian strike,others may have been present too),145 LtCols,
>>> 279 Majors,407 captains.
>>
>> 2210,with 146 LtCols,281 Majors,415 Captains.
>
> 2230,with 149 LtCols,285 Majors,416 Captains.

2253 with 58 colonels,153LtCols,286 Majors,418 Captains.

>>>>>>>> -=-=-
>>>>>>>> The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
>>>>>>>> at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

Re: Russian Deaths in Ukraine

<u6btfh$akv$2@reader2.panix.com>

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From: le...@main.lekno.ws (Louis Epstein)
Newsgroups: alt.obituaries
Subject: Re: Russian Deaths in Ukraine
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2023 08:24:17 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and UNIX, NYC
Message-ID: <u6btfh$akv$2@reader2.panix.com>
References: <u0fj6k$hu6$1@reader2.panix.com> <u15igd$649$1@reader2.panix.com> <u1ud9d$p7v$1@reader2.panix.com> <u2ig60$ji7$1@reader2.panix.com> <u3crc3$m55$1@reader2.panix.com> <u424k5$kb0$1@reader2.panix.com> <u4mti8$1tk$1@reader2.panix.com> <u5jv37$hnp$1@reader1.panix.com> <u63srm$hsa$1@reader1.panix.com>
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 by: Louis Epstein - Wed, 14 Jun 2023 08:24 UTC

Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
> Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>> Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>>> Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>>>> Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>>>>> Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>>>>>> Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>>>>>>> Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Something seems to have made old messages & threads
>>>>>>>>> inaccessible at Panix?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> (Apparently it was a massive dump of binaries erasing the
>>>>>>>> news server's scroll)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In any case,the reported (by Ukraine) number of Russian
>>>>>>>>> military deaths in Ukraine passed 175,000 on the 404th day
>>>>>>>>> of the invasion (a much bloodier pace,as my old thread noted,
>>>>>>>>> than American losses in Vietnam,though less than the Russians
>>>>>>>>> lost against Napoleon or Hitler).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/04/7396148/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Despite a slowing of pace,the 180,000 death mark was passed
>>>>>>>> on day 413:
>>>>>>>> http://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/04/12/7397476/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 185,000 deaths were reached on day 422:
>>>>>>> http://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/04/21/7398803/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 190,000 deaths were reached on day 430:
>>>>>> https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/04/29/7399953/
>>>>>
>>>>> 195,000 deaths were reached on day 440:
>>>>> https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/05/9/7401282/
>>>>
>>>> 200,000 deaths were reached on day 448:
>>>> https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/05/17/7402549/
>>> [URL CORRECTED ABOVE]
>>>
>>> 205,000 deaths were reached on day 456:
>>> https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/05/25/7403758/
>>
>> 210,000 deaths were reached on day 467:
>> https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/06/5/7405302/
>
> 215,000 deaths were reached on day 473:
> https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/06/11/7406323/

Day 476 number is 217,330...

>>>>>>>> The @KilledinUkraine Twitter account hasn't updated their
>>>>>>>> graphic since the 2,000 mark of verified dead Russian
>>>>>>>> officers was reached on March 28th.
>>>>>>>> But the steadily updated Googledoc has reached 2046:
>>>>>>>> 54 colonels,138 lieutenant colonels,268 Majors,375 captains among them.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Graphic updated today to 2,085,
>>>>>>> 139 LtCols,265 Majors,387 Captains...no new colonels.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Graphic says 2,111 dead as of April 27,
>>>>>> Googledoc is up to 2,117 with 273 majors (no higher ranked additions
>>>>>> and some of these a year in arrears before being identified),392
>>>>>> captains.
>>>>>
>>>>> Graphic not updated.
>>>>> Googledoc is up to 2128 with the 141 LtCols,no new majors,395 captains.
>>>>
>>>> Graphic now 2160 dead as of May 11.
>>>
>>> Not updated.
>>
>> Graphic now updated May 31 with 2222 dead.
>
> Not updated since.

....but the June 13 update and other sources
(with the number now on par with the Googledoc though the
latter could get updated at any time)
have not only reached 2288 officers total...

>>>> Googledoc now 2185,with 56 Colonels (the two new ones died together in
>>>> a Ukrainian strike,others may have been present too),145 LtCols,
>>>> 279 Majors,407 captains.
>>>
>>> 2210,with 146 LtCols,281 Majors,415 Captains.
>>
>> 2230,with 149 LtCols,285 Majors,416 Captains.
>
> 2253 with 58 colonels,153LtCols,286 Majors,418 Captains.

....but confirmed the death of the first general officer in
a year,5th overall after false/unconfirmed reports were deleted,
like the others serving as a one-star.
Now 60 colonels,153 ltcols,289 majors,419 captains...
apparently the missile that took out Major-General (Russian 1-star,
they have no "brigadier" rank and we have no "colonel general")
Goryachev took out some other brass as well.

>>>>>>>>> -=-=-
>>>>>>>>> The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
>>>>>>>>> at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

Re: Russian Deaths in Ukraine

<u6ovit$4b2$1@reader2.panix.com>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=18085&group=alt.obituaries#18085

  copy link   Newsgroups: alt.obituaries
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!panix!.POSTED.12.144.5.2!not-for-mail
From: le...@main.lekno.ws (Louis Epstein)
Newsgroups: alt.obituaries
Subject: Re: Russian Deaths in Ukraine
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2023 07:19:57 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and UNIX, NYC
Message-ID: <u6ovit$4b2$1@reader2.panix.com>
References: <u0fj6k$hu6$1@reader2.panix.com> <u15igd$649$1@reader2.panix.com> <u1ud9d$p7v$1@reader2.panix.com> <u2ig60$ji7$1@reader2.panix.com> <u3crc3$m55$1@reader2.panix.com> <u424k5$kb0$1@reader2.panix.com> <u4mti8$1tk$1@reader2.panix.com> <u5jv37$hnp$1@reader1.panix.com> <u63srm$hsa$1@reader1.panix.com> <u6btfh$akv$2@reader2.panix.com>
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 by: Louis Epstein - Mon, 19 Jun 2023 07:19 UTC

Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
> Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>> Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>>> Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>>>> Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>>>>> Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>>>>>> Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>>>>>>> Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Something seems to have made old messages & threads
>>>>>>>>>> inaccessible at Panix?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> (Apparently it was a massive dump of binaries erasing the
>>>>>>>>> news server's scroll)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> In any case,the reported (by Ukraine) number of Russian
>>>>>>>>>> military deaths in Ukraine passed 175,000 on the 404th day
>>>>>>>>>> of the invasion (a much bloodier pace,as my old thread noted,
>>>>>>>>>> than American losses in Vietnam,though less than the Russians
>>>>>>>>>> lost against Napoleon or Hitler).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/04/7396148/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Despite a slowing of pace,the 180,000 death mark was passed
>>>>>>>>> on day 413:
>>>>>>>>> http://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/04/12/7397476/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 185,000 deaths were reached on day 422:
>>>>>>>> http://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/04/21/7398803/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 190,000 deaths were reached on day 430:
>>>>>>> https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/04/29/7399953/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 195,000 deaths were reached on day 440:
>>>>>> https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/05/9/7401282/
>>>>>
>>>>> 200,000 deaths were reached on day 448:
>>>>> https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/05/17/7402549/
>>>> [URL CORRECTED ABOVE]
>>>>
>>>> 205,000 deaths were reached on day 456:
>>>> https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/05/25/7403758/
>>>
>>> 210,000 deaths were reached on day 467:
>>> https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/06/5/7405302/
>>
>> 215,000 deaths were reached on day 473:
>> https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/06/11/7406323/
>
> Day 476 number is 217,330...

220,000 deaths were reached on day 481:
https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/06/19/7407431/

>>>>>>>>> The @KilledinUkraine Twitter account hasn't updated their
>>>>>>>>> graphic since the 2,000 mark of verified dead Russian
>>>>>>>>> officers was reached on March 28th.
>>>>>>>>> But the steadily updated Googledoc has reached 2046:
>>>>>>>>> 54 colonels,138 lieutenant colonels,268 Majors,375 captains among them.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Graphic updated today to 2,085,
>>>>>>>> 139 LtCols,265 Majors,387 Captains...no new colonels.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Graphic says 2,111 dead as of April 27,
>>>>>>> Googledoc is up to 2,117 with 273 majors (no higher ranked additions
>>>>>>> and some of these a year in arrears before being identified),392
>>>>>>> captains.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Graphic not updated.
>>>>>> Googledoc is up to 2128 with the 141 LtCols,no new majors,395 captains.
>>>>>
>>>>> Graphic now 2160 dead as of May 11.
>>>>
>>>> Not updated.
>>>
>>> Graphic now updated May 31 with 2222 dead.
>>
>> Not updated since.
>
> ...but the June 13 update and other sources
> (with the number now on par with the Googledoc though the
> latter could get updated at any time)
> have not only reached 2288 officers total...

Graphic not yet updated again...
>>>>> Googledoc now 2185,with 56 Colonels (the two new ones died together in
>>>>> a Ukrainian strike,others may have been present too),145 LtCols,
>>>>> 279 Majors,407 captains.
>>>>
>>>> 2210,with 146 LtCols,281 Majors,415 Captains.
>>>
>>> 2230,with 149 LtCols,285 Majors,416 Captains.
>>
>> 2253 with 58 colonels,153 LtCols,286 Majors,418 Captains.
>
> ...but confirmed the death of the first general officer in
> a year,5th overall after false/unconfirmed reports were deleted,
> like the others serving as a one-star.
> Now 60 colonels,153 ltcols,289 majors,419 captains...

now 2319 total...61 colonels,157 lt-cols,292 majors,423 captains.

> apparently the missile that took out Major-General (Russian 1-star,
> they have no "brigadier" rank and we have no "colonel general")
> Goryachev took out some other brass as well.
>
>
>>>>>>>>>> -=-=-
>>>>>>>>>> The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
>>>>>>>>>> at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

Re: Russian Deaths in Ukraine

<u7bjus$his$1@reader2.panix.com>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=18195&group=alt.obituaries#18195

  copy link   Newsgroups: alt.obituaries
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!panix!.POSTED.12.144.5.2!not-for-mail
From: le...@main.lekno.ws (Louis Epstein)
Newsgroups: alt.obituaries
Subject: Re: Russian Deaths in Ukraine
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2023 08:58:04 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and UNIX, NYC
Message-ID: <u7bjus$his$1@reader2.panix.com>
References: <u0fj6k$hu6$1@reader2.panix.com> <u15igd$649$1@reader2.panix.com> <u1ud9d$p7v$1@reader2.panix.com> <u2ig60$ji7$1@reader2.panix.com> <u3crc3$m55$1@reader2.panix.com> <u424k5$kb0$1@reader2.panix.com> <u4mti8$1tk$1@reader2.panix.com> <u5jv37$hnp$1@reader1.panix.com> <u63srm$hsa$1@reader1.panix.com> <u6btfh$akv$2@reader2.panix.com> <u6ovit$4b2$1@reader2.panix.com>
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 by: Louis Epstein - Mon, 26 Jun 2023 08:58 UTC

Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
> Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>> Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>>> Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>>>> Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>>>>> Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>>>>>> Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>>>>>>> Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Something seems to have made old messages & threads
>>>>>>>>>>> inaccessible at Panix?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> (Apparently it was a massive dump of binaries erasing the
>>>>>>>>>> news server's scroll)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> In any case,the reported (by Ukraine) number of Russian
>>>>>>>>>>> military deaths in Ukraine passed 175,000 on the 404th day
>>>>>>>>>>> of the invasion (a much bloodier pace,as my old thread noted,
>>>>>>>>>>> than American losses in Vietnam,though less than the Russians
>>>>>>>>>>> lost against Napoleon or Hitler).
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/04/7396148/
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Despite a slowing of pace,the 180,000 death mark was passed
>>>>>>>>>> on day 413:
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/04/12/7397476/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 185,000 deaths were reached on day 422:
>>>>>>>>> http://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/04/21/7398803/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 190,000 deaths were reached on day 430:
>>>>>>>> https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/04/29/7399953/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 195,000 deaths were reached on day 440:
>>>>>>> https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/05/9/7401282/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 200,000 deaths were reached on day 448:
>>>>>> https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/05/17/7402549/
>>>>> [URL CORRECTED ABOVE]
>>>>>
>>>>> 205,000 deaths were reached on day 456:
>>>>> https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/05/25/7403758/
>>>>
>>>> 210,000 deaths were reached on day 467:
>>>> https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/06/5/7405302/
>>>
>>> 215,000 deaths were reached on day 473:
>>> https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/06/11/7406323/
>>
>> Day 476 number is 217,330...
>
> 220,000 deaths were reached on day 481:
> https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/06/19/7407431/

225,000 deaths were reached on day 488:
https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/06/26/7408522/


>>>>>>>>>> The @KilledinUkraine Twitter account hasn't updated their
>>>>>>>>>> graphic since the 2,000 mark of verified dead Russian
>>>>>>>>>> officers was reached on March 28th.
>>>>>>>>>> But the steadily updated Googledoc has reached 2046:
>>>>>>>>>> 54 colonels,138 lieutenant colonels,268 Majors,375 captains among them.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Graphic updated today to 2,085,
>>>>>>>>> 139 LtCols,265 Majors,387 Captains...no new colonels.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Graphic says 2,111 dead as of April 27,
>>>>>>>> Googledoc is up to 2,117 with 273 majors (no higher ranked additions
>>>>>>>> and some of these a year in arrears before being identified),392
>>>>>>>> captains.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Graphic not updated.
>>>>>>> Googledoc is up to 2128 with the 141 LtCols,no new majors,395 captains.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Graphic now 2160 dead as of May 11.
>>>>>
>>>>> Not updated.
>>>>
>>>> Graphic now updated May 31 with 2222 dead.
>>>
>>> Not updated since.
>>
>> ...but the June 13 update and other sources
>> (with the number now on par with the Googledoc though the
>> latter could get updated at any time)
>> have not only reached 2288 officers total...
>
> Graphic not yet updated again...

2363 as of June 21...

>>>>>> Googledoc now 2185,with 56 Colonels (the two new ones died together in
>>>>>> a Ukrainian strike,others may have been present too),145 LtCols,
>>>>>> 279 Majors,407 captains.
>>>>>
>>>>> 2210,with 146 LtCols,281 Majors,415 Captains.
>>>>
>>>> 2230,with 149 LtCols,285 Majors,416 Captains.
>>>
>>> 2253 with 58 colonels,153 LtCols,286 Majors,418 Captains.
>>
>> ...but confirmed the death of the first general officer in
>> a year,5th overall after false/unconfirmed reports were deleted,
>> like the others serving as a one-star.
>> Now 60 colonels,153 ltcols,289 majors,419 captains...
>
> now 2319 total...61 colonels,157 lt-cols,292 majors,423 captains.

now 2383 total,up to 161 LtCols,296 majors,430 captains.

>> apparently the missile that took out Major-General (Russian 1-star,
>> they have no "brigadier" rank and we have no "colonel general")
>> Goryachev took out some other brass as well.
>>
>>
>>>>>>>>>>> -=-=-
>>>>>>>>>>> The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
>>>>>>>>>>> at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

Re: Russian Deaths in Ukraine

<u7tqan$h7f$1@reader2.panix.com>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=18304&group=alt.obituaries#18304

  copy link   Newsgroups: alt.obituaries
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!panix!.POSTED.12.144.5.2!not-for-mail
From: le...@main.lekno.ws (Louis Epstein)
Newsgroups: alt.obituaries
Subject: Re: Russian Deaths in Ukraine
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2023 06:37:11 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and UNIX, NYC
Message-ID: <u7tqan$h7f$1@reader2.panix.com>
References: <u0fj6k$hu6$1@reader2.panix.com> <u15igd$649$1@reader2.panix.com> <u1ud9d$p7v$1@reader2.panix.com> <u2ig60$ji7$1@reader2.panix.com> <u3crc3$m55$1@reader2.panix.com> <u424k5$kb0$1@reader2.panix.com> <u4mti8$1tk$1@reader2.panix.com> <u5jv37$hnp$1@reader1.panix.com> <u63srm$hsa$1@reader1.panix.com> <u6btfh$akv$2@reader2.panix.com> <u6ovit$4b2$1@reader2.panix.com> <u7bjus$his$1@reader2.panix.com>
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 by: Louis Epstein - Mon, 3 Jul 2023 06:37 UTC

Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
> Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>> Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>>> Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>>>> Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>>>>> Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>>>>>> Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>>>>>>> Louis Epstein <le@lekno.ws> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Louis Epstein <le@lekno.ws> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Louis Epstein <le@lekno.ws> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Louis Epstein <le@lekno.ws> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Louis Epstein <le@lekno.ws> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Something seems to have made old messages & threads
>>>>>>>>>>>> inaccessible at Panix?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> (Apparently it was a massive dump of binaries erasing the
>>>>>>>>>>> news server's scroll)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> In any case,the reported (by Ukraine) number of Russian
>>>>>>>>>>>> military deaths in Ukraine passed 175,000 on the 404th day
>>>>>>>>>>>> of the invasion (a much bloodier pace,as my old thread noted,
>>>>>>>>>>>> than American losses in Vietnam,though less than the Russians
>>>>>>>>>>>> lost against Napoleon or Hitler).
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/04/7396148/
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Despite a slowing of pace,the 180,000 death mark was passed
>>>>>>>>>>> on day 413:
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/04/12/7397476/
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 185,000 deaths were reached on day 422:
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/04/21/7398803/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 190,000 deaths were reached on day 430:
>>>>>>>>> https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/04/29/7399953/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 195,000 deaths were reached on day 440:
>>>>>>>> https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/05/9/7401282/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 200,000 deaths were reached on day 448:
>>>>>>> https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/05/17/7402549/
>>>>>> [URL CORRECTED ABOVE]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 205,000 deaths were reached on day 456:
>>>>>> https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/05/25/7403758/
>>>>>
>>>>> 210,000 deaths were reached on day 467:
>>>>> https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/06/5/7405302/
>>>>
>>>> 215,000 deaths were reached on day 473:
>>>> https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/06/11/7406323/
>>>
>>> Day 476 number is 217,330...
>>
>> 220,000 deaths were reached on day 481:
>> https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/06/19/7407431/
>
> 225,000 deaths were reached on day 488:
> https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/06/26/7408522/

230,000 deaths were reached on day 495:
https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/07/3/7409573/

>>>>>>>>>>> The @KilledinUkraine Twitter account hasn't updated their
>>>>>>>>>>> graphic since the 2,000 mark of verified dead Russian
>>>>>>>>>>> officers was reached on March 28th.
>>>>>>>>>>> But the steadily updated Googledoc has reached 2046:
>>>>>>>>>>> 54 colonels,138 lieutenant colonels,268 Majors,375 captains among them.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Graphic updated today to 2,085,
>>>>>>>>>> 139 LtCols,265 Majors,387 Captains...no new colonels.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Graphic says 2,111 dead as of April 27,
>>>>>>>>> Googledoc is up to 2,117 with 273 majors (no higher ranked additions
>>>>>>>>> and some of these a year in arrears before being identified),392
>>>>>>>>> captains.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Graphic not updated.
>>>>>>>> Googledoc is up to 2128 with the 141 LtCols,no new majors,395 captains.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Graphic now 2160 dead as of May 11.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not updated.
>>>>>
>>>>> Graphic now updated May 31 with 2222 dead.
>>>>
>>>> Not updated since.
>>>
>>> ...but the June 13 update and other sources
>>> (with the number now on par with the Googledoc though the
>>> latter could get updated at any time)
>>> have not only reached 2288 officers total...
>>
>> Graphic not yet updated again...
>
> 2363 as of June 21...
>
>>>>>>> Googledoc now 2185,with 56 Colonels (the two new ones died together in
>>>>>>> a Ukrainian strike,others may have been present too),145 LtCols,
>>>>>>> 279 Majors,407 captains.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2210,with 146 LtCols,281 Majors,415 Captains.
>>>>>
>>>>> 2230,with 149 LtCols,285 Majors,416 Captains.
>>>>
>>>> 2253 with 58 colonels,153 LtCols,286 Majors,418 Captains.
>>>
>>> ...but confirmed the death of the first general officer in
>>> a year,5th overall after false/unconfirmed reports were deleted,
>>> like the others serving as a one-star.
>>> Now 60 colonels,153 ltcols,289 majors,419 captains...
>>
>> now 2319 total...61 colonels,157 lt-cols,292 majors,423 captains.
>
> now 2383 total,up to 161 LtCols,296 majors,430 captains.

I DO NOT HAVE THE URL FOR THE GOOGLEDOC,
and am no longer able to read it off Twitter unless logged in,
and have been locked out of being able to log in since October 2018.
Last I saw the numbers were up on those I last quoted.(2396 or so
total,163 LtCols...)
>>> apparently the missile that took out Major-General (Russian 1-star,
>>> they have no "brigadier" rank and we have no "colonel general")
>>> Goryachev took out some other brass as well.
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> -=-=-
>>>>>>>>>>>> The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
>>>>>>>>>>>> at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

Re: Russian Deaths in Ukraine

<0e806d17-1160-4052-8da7-5bbe12987329n@googlegroups.com>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=18316&group=alt.obituaries#18316

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Subject: Re: Russian Deaths in Ukraine
From: raultenn...@gmail.com (Raul TW)
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 by: Raul TW - Mon, 3 Jul 2023 20:20 UTC

On Sunday, July 2, 2023 at 11:37:14 PM UTC-7, Louis Epstein wrote:
> 230,000 deaths were reached on day 495:
> https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/07/3/7409573/

Nearly a quarter million Russian soldiers reportedly killed. That is a huge number. The source is a Ukrainian newspaper.
Russia has not released an official number since September 2022.
At that time, the Russian Ministry of Defense claimed that 5,937 Russian soldiers had been killed in combat.

IMO, the 230,000 number is too high. Hard to believe Putin could remain in power with that high of a death toll.

Gathering data from various news sources, the Russian death toll is likely to be in the range of 20,000 to 50,000

Google Bard:

The United States government estimates that as of May 1, 2023, more than 20,000 Russian soldiers have been killed in Ukraine. This estimate is based on intelligence gathered from a variety of sources, including open-source information, satellite imagery, and human intelligence.

It is important to note that these estimates are just that - estimates. The true number of Russian military losses in Ukraine is likely higher than any of these figures, as it is difficult to obtain accurate information from a conflict zone. However, even the lower estimates of Russian losses are significant and suggest that the war in Ukraine is taking a heavy toll on the Russian military.

Here are some sources for the more recent estimates of Russian military losses in Ukraine:

BBC News: Ukraine war: More than 20,000 Russian troops killed since December, US says: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-65451487

Al Jazeera: US believes 20,000 Russians killed in Ukraine war since December: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/5/1/us-believes-20000-russians-killed-in-ukraine-war-since-december

The Moscow Times: Verified Russian Military Deaths in Ukraine Now Exceed 20,000: https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2023/04/14/verified-russian-military-deaths-in-ukraine-now-exceed-20000-a80839

The Guardian: More than 20,000 Russian soldiers killed in five months in Ukraine, US says: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/may/01/more-than-20000-russian-soldiers-killed-in-five-months-in-ukraine-us-says

NBC News: Scale of Russian deaths in Ukraine signals trouble for Putin: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/russia-casualties-soldiers-killed-ukraine-counteroffensive-putin-war-rcna82380

Re: Russian Deaths in Ukraine

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From: le...@main.lekno.ws (Louis Epstein)
Newsgroups: alt.obituaries
Subject: Re: Russian Deaths in Ukraine
Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2023 04:55:13 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and UNIX, NYC
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 by: Louis Epstein - Tue, 4 Jul 2023 04:55 UTC

Raul TW <raultenniswarehouse@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sunday, July 2, 2023 at 11:37:14?PM UTC-7, Louis Epstein wrote:
>> 230,000 deaths were reached on day 495:
>> https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/07/3/7409573/
>
> Nearly a quarter million Russian soldiers reportedly killed. That is a huge
> number. The source is a Ukrainian newspaper.

The Ukrainian newspaper always quotes Ukrainian government sources
and typically says the report "is being confirmed".

The estimates are presumably generous,while the @KilledinUkraine
site (DOES ANYONE HAVE THE URL FOR THE GOOGLEDOC?) uses only
Russian reports and only covers officers,with numbers that are
presumably conservative.

The Oryx site similarly has much lower,but generally meticulously
verified,numbers for losses in materiel.

> Russia has not released an official number since September 2022.
> At that time, the Russian Ministry of Defense claimed that 5,937 Russian soldiers had been killed in combat.
>
> IMO, the 230,000 number is too high. Hard to believe Putin could remain in
> power with that high of a death toll.

Over four Vietnam Wars' worth for the USA in less than a year and a half.

> Gathering data from various news sources, the Russian death toll is likely
> to be in the range of 20,000 to 50,000
>
> Google Bard:
>
> The United States government estimates that as of May 1, 2023, more than
> 20,000 Russian soldiers have been killed in Ukraine. This estimate is based
> on intelligence gathered from a variety of sources, including open-source
> information, satellite imagery, and human intelligence.
>
> It is important to note that these estimates are just that - estimates. The true number of Russian military losses in Ukraine is likely higher than any of these figures, as it is difficult to obtain accurate information from a conflict zone. However, even the lower estimates of Russian losses are significant and suggest that the war in Ukraine is taking a heavy toll on the Russian military.
>
> Here are some sources for the more recent estimates of Russian military
> losses in Ukraine:
>
> BBC News: Ukraine war: More than 20,000 Russian troops killed since
> December, US says: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-65451487
>
> Al Jazeera: US believes 20,000 Russians killed in Ukraine war since
> December:
> https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/5/1/us-believes-20000-russians-killed-in-ukraine-war-since-december

So that's the stretch Dec 2022 to end April 2023?

> The Moscow Times: Verified Russian Military Deaths in Ukraine Now Exceed
> 20,000:
> https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2023/04/14/verified-russian-military-deaths-in-ukraine-now-exceed-20000-a80839

Feb 2022 to early April 2023?

> The Guardian: More than 20,000 Russian soldiers killed in five months in
> Ukraine, US says: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/may/01/more-than-20000-russian-soldiers-killed-in-five-months-in-ukraine-us-says
>
> NBC News: Scale of Russian deaths in Ukraine signals trouble for Putin:
> https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/russia-casualties-soldiers-killed-ukraine-counteroffensive-putin-war-rcna82380
>

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

Re: Russian Deaths in Ukraine

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Subject: Re: Russian Deaths in Ukraine
From: raultenn...@gmail.com (Raul TW)
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 by: Raul TW - Tue, 4 Jul 2023 10:25 UTC

On Monday, July 3, 2023 at 9:55:16 PM UTC-7, Louis Epstein wrote:
>> IMO, the 230,000 number is too high. Hard to believe Putin could remain in
>>power with that high of a death toll.

> Over four Vietnam Wars' worth for the USA in less than a year and a half.

Various sources say the initial estimate of the number of Russian troops deployed
to Ukraine has been `~200,000 troops at the start of the war and that number has held steady for the last year. It is not credible that 230,000 Russian troops have been killed.

If the death toll was that staggeringly high, Putin likely would have been toppled. Russia has a population of only 150 million!!
Putin simply cannot withstand that many body bags coming home.

I do not doubt that the death toll is very high. But that number appears to be vastly inflated.

Will update later on the numbers reported by various sources.

But AFAIK, the U.S. intelligence sources have not placed the Russian death toll number nearly that thigh.

Re: Russian Deaths in Ukraine

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From: le...@main.lekno.ws (Louis Epstein)
Newsgroups: alt.obituaries
Subject: Re: Russian Deaths in Ukraine
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2023 00:03:30 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and UNIX, NYC
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 by: Louis Epstein - Thu, 6 Jul 2023 00:03 UTC

Raul TW <raultenniswarehouse@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Monday, July 3, 2023 at 9:55:16?PM UTC-7, Louis Epstein wrote:
>>> IMO, the 230,000 number is too high. Hard to believe Putin could remain in
>>>power with that high of a death toll.
>
>> Over four Vietnam Wars' worth for the USA in less than a year and a half.
>
> Various sources say the initial estimate of the number of Russian troops deployed
> to Ukraine has been `~200,000 troops at the start of the war and that number has held steady for the last year. It is not credible that 230,000 Russian troops have been killed.

The UK now says that Russia has lost 220,000 TOTAL killed AND wounded:
https://www.eurointegration.com.ua/eng/news/2023/07/5/7165097/
(also says total for BOTH sides is 354,000 according to the USA).
> If the death toll was that staggeringly high, Putin likely would have been toppled. Russia has a population of only 150 million!!
> Putin simply cannot withstand that many body bags coming home.
>
> I do not doubt that the death toll is very high. But that number appears to be vastly inflated.
>
> Will update later on the numbers reported by various sources.
>
> But AFAIK, the U.S. intelligence sources have not placed the Russian death
> toll number nearly that thigh.

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

Re: Russian Deaths in Ukraine

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Subject: Re: Russian Deaths in Ukraine
From: raultenn...@gmail.com (Raul TW)
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 by: Raul TW - Thu, 6 Jul 2023 20:36 UTC

On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 5:03:33 PM UTC-7, Louis Epstein wrote:

> The UK now says that Russia has lost 220,000 TOTAL killed AND wounded:
> https://www.eurointegration.com.ua/eng/news/2023/07/5/7165097/

That article headline states, "UK Assessed Russia's Losses at 220,000 Military Personnel". It is rather unusual to count the wounded as "losses of personnel". "Losses of personnel" typically refer to soldiers killed in action, e.g. , "America lost 60,000 soldiers in Vietnam".

I am researching the various estimates of the number of Russian soldiers killed in Ukraine.

The BBC and Mediazona project, which tracks open-source data, estimates that 25,528 Russian soldiers have been killed in Ukraine as of July 6, 2023. This is the most comprehensive and up-to-date estimate of Russian casualties available.

The US government has not released an updated estimate since February 2023. The US government estimated that between 15,000 and 20,000 Russian soldiers had been killed in Ukraine as of February 2023.

The 220,000 number of total casualties quoted in the article appears to be a bit high, as that implies 44,000 Russians killed (assuming a 4 to 1 ratio of Russian soldiers wounded to killed). This means that out of the total of 220,000 wounded and killed Russian soldiers, 44,000 were killed in action and 176,000 were wounded in action.

The typical ratio of Russian soldiers wounded to killed in Ukraine is estimated to be between 3 to 1 and 4 to 1. This means that for every Russian soldier who is killed in action, there are between 3 and 4 Russian soldiers who are wounded.

This ratio is higher than the typical ratio of wounded to killed in other wars. For example, the ratio of wounded to killed in the Iraq War was 2 to 1.. This suggests that the Russian military is not as well-equipped to deal with casualties as other militaries.

There are a number of reasons why the ratio of wounded to killed in Ukraine is so high. First, the fighting in Ukraine has been very intense. Both sides have used heavy artillery and air strikes, which have caused a lot of casualties. Second, the Ukrainian military has been using effective tactics to target Russian troops, such as ambushes and artillery strikes. Third, the Russian military has been using poorly trained and equipped troops, which have been more likely to be killed or wounded.

The high number of Russian casualties in Ukraine is a major setback for the Russian military. It has led to a decline in morale and a loss of confidence in the leadership. It has also made it more difficult for Russia to achieve its military objectives in Ukraine.

Re: Russian Deaths in Ukraine

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From: le...@main.lekno.ws (Louis Epstein)
Newsgroups: alt.obituaries
Subject: Re: Russian Deaths in Ukraine
Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2023 02:10:31 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and UNIX, NYC
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 by: Louis Epstein - Sun, 9 Jul 2023 02:10 UTC

Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
> Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>> Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>>> Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>>>> Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>>>>> Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>>>>>> Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>>>>>>> Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Louis Epstein <le@lekno.ws> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Louis Epstein <le@lekno.ws> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Louis Epstein <le@lekno.ws> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Louis Epstein <le@lekno.ws> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Louis Epstein <le@lekno.ws> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Something seems to have made old messages & threads
>>>>>>>>>>>>> inaccessible at Panix?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> (Apparently it was a massive dump of binaries erasing the
>>>>>>>>>>>> news server's scroll)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> In any case,the reported (by Ukraine) number of Russian
>>>>>>>>>>>>> military deaths in Ukraine passed 175,000 on the 404th day
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the invasion (a much bloodier pace,as my old thread noted,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> than American losses in Vietnam,though less than the Russians
>>>>>>>>>>>>> lost against Napoleon or Hitler).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/04/7396148/
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Despite a slowing of pace,the 180,000 death mark was passed
>>>>>>>>>>>> on day 413:
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/04/12/7397476/
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> 185,000 deaths were reached on day 422:
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/04/21/7398803/
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 190,000 deaths were reached on day 430:
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/04/29/7399953/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 195,000 deaths were reached on day 440:
>>>>>>>>> https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/05/9/7401282/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 200,000 deaths were reached on day 448:
>>>>>>>> https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/05/17/7402549/
>>>>>>> [URL CORRECTED ABOVE]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 205,000 deaths were reached on day 456:
>>>>>>> https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/05/25/7403758/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 210,000 deaths were reached on day 467:
>>>>>> https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/06/5/7405302/
>>>>>
>>>>> 215,000 deaths were reached on day 473:
>>>>> https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/06/11/7406323/
>>>>
>>>> Day 476 number is 217,330...
>>>
>>> 220,000 deaths were reached on day 481:
>>> https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/06/19/7407431/
>>
>> 225,000 deaths were reached on day 488:
>> https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/06/26/7408522/
>
> 230,000 deaths were reached on day 495:
> https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/07/3/7409573/

The Day-500 number is 233,440:
https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/07/8/7410406/

>>>>>>>>>>>> The @KilledinUkraine Twitter account hasn't updated their
>>>>>>>>>>>> graphic since the 2,000 mark of verified dead Russian
>>>>>>>>>>>> officers was reached on March 28th.
>>>>>>>>>>>> But the steadily updated Googledoc has reached 2046:
>>>>>>>>>>>> 54 colonels,138 lieutenant colonels,268 Majors,375 captains among them.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Graphic updated today to 2,085,
>>>>>>>>>>> 139 LtCols,265 Majors,387 Captains...no new colonels.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Graphic says 2,111 dead as of April 27,
>>>>>>>>>> Googledoc is up to 2,117 with 273 majors (no higher ranked additions
>>>>>>>>>> and some of these a year in arrears before being identified),392
>>>>>>>>>> captains.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Graphic not updated.
>>>>>>>>> Googledoc is up to 2128 with the 141 LtCols,no new majors,395 captains.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Graphic now 2160 dead as of May 11.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not updated.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Graphic now updated May 31 with 2222 dead.
>>>>>
>>>>> Not updated since.
>>>>
>>>> ...but the June 13 update and other sources
>>>> (with the number now on par with the Googledoc though the
>>>> latter could get updated at any time)
>>>> have not only reached 2288 officers total...
>>>
>>> Graphic not yet updated again...
>>
>> 2363 as of June 21...
>>
>>>>>>>> Googledoc now 2185,with 56 Colonels (the two new ones died together in
>>>>>>>> a Ukrainian strike,others may have been present too),145 LtCols,
>>>>>>>> 279 Majors,407 captains.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2210,with 146 LtCols,281 Majors,415 Captains.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2230,with 149 LtCols,285 Majors,416 Captains.
>>>>>
>>>>> 2253 with 58 colonels,153 LtCols,286 Majors,418 Captains.
>>>>
>>>> ...but confirmed the death of the first general officer in
>>>> a year,5th overall after false/unconfirmed reports were deleted,
>>>> like the others serving as a one-star.
>>>> Now 60 colonels,153 ltcols,289 majors,419 captains...
>>>
>>> now 2319 total...61 colonels,157 lt-cols,292 majors,423 captains.
>>
>> now 2383 total,up to 161 LtCols,296 majors,430 captains.
>
> I DO NOT HAVE THE URL FOR THE GOOGLEDOC,

I found it through a third-party site...
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1InyFVmu1LoSjqcWTHe4iD9cR8CNiL-5Ke5JizMlwc
(actually was in a browser memory here too).

2479 total
64 colonels,167 LtCols,316 majors,441 captains.

> and am no longer able to read it off Twitter unless logged in,

(persists)

> and have been locked out of being able to log in since October 2018.
> Last I saw the numbers were up on those I last quoted.(2396 or so
> total,163 LtCols...)
>
>>>> apparently the missile that took out Major-General (Russian 1-star,
>>>> they have no "brigadier" rank and we have no "colonel general")
>>>> Goryachev took out some other brass as well.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> -=-=-
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

Re: Russian Deaths in Ukraine

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Subject: Re: Russian Deaths in Ukraine
From: raultenn...@gmail.com (Raul TW)
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 by: Raul TW - Sun, 9 Jul 2023 03:19 UTC

On Saturday, July 8, 2023 at 7:10:34 PM UTC-7, Louis Epstein wrote:

>Ukrainian Defence Forces have killed 630 Russian troops and destroyed 4 tanks and 16 artillery systems over the past 24 hours.
>Source: General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine

> Details: The total combat losses of the Russian forces from 24 February 2022 to 8 July 2023 are estimated to be as follows [figures in > > parentheses represent the latest losses – ed.]:

>Approximately 233,440 (+630) military personnel;

Ukraine is claiming 233,440. It is not clear from that article whether that 233K number includes the wounded.

The U.S. and U.K. have not confirmed anything close to that number. That 233,440 killed number from Ukraine is simply not credible.
In July 2023, the US updated its estimate to 20,000 to 40,000 Russian soldiers killed.
The British government has estimated that 20,000 to 50,000 Russian soldiers have been killed in Ukraine.

Re: Russian Deaths in Ukraine

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From: bob.mar...@excite.com (Bob Martin)
Newsgroups: alt.obituaries
Subject: Re: Russian Deaths in Ukraine
Date: 9 Jul 2023 06:38:29 GMT
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 by: Bob Martin - Sun, 9 Jul 2023 06:38 UTC

On 9 Jul 2023 at 03:19:09, Raul TW <raultenniswarehouse@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Saturday, July 8, 2023 at 7:10:34=E2=80=AFPM UTC-7, Louis Epstein wrote:
>
>>** >Ukrainian Defence Forces have killed 630 Russian troops and destroyed 4 tanks and 16 artillery systems
>>** over the past 24 hours.
>>Source: General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine
>
>>** > Details: The total combat losses of the Russian forces from 24 February 2022 to 8 July 2023 are estimated
>>** to be as follows [figures in > > parentheses represent the latest losses - ed.]:
>
>>Approximately 233,440 (+630) military personnel;
>
>
> Ukraine is claiming 233,440. It is not clear from that article whether that 233K number includes the wounded.
>
> *** The U.S. and U.K. have not confirmed anything close to that number. That 233,440 killed number from
> *** Ukraine is simply not credible.
>
> In July 2023, the US updated its estimate to 20,000 to 40,000 Russian soldiers killed.
> The British government has estimated that 20,000 to 50,000 Russian soldiers have been killed in Ukraine.
>

"Combat losses" is people who are out of the fight.
If you lose an arm or a leg you are not going to be fighting any more.
The same as being dead as far as the army is concerned.

Re: Russian Deaths in Ukraine

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 by: Raul TW - Sun, 9 Jul 2023 07:05 UTC

On Saturday, July 8, 2023 at 11:38:33 PM UTC-7, Bob Martin wrote:

> >
> > Ukraine is claiming 233,440. It is not clear from that article whether that 233K number includes the wounded.
> >
> > *** The U.S. and U.K. have not confirmed anything close to that number. That 233,440 killed number from
> > *** Ukraine is simply not credible.
> >
> > In July 2023, the US updated its estimate to 20,000 to 40,000 Russian soldiers killed.
> > The British government has estimated that 20,000 to 50,000 Russian soldiers have been killed in Ukraine.
> >
> "Combat losses" is people who are out of the fight.
> If you lose an arm or a leg you are not going to be fighting any more.
> The same as being dead as far as the army is concerned.

I would tend to agree that the ~230,000 number refers to the **TOTAL** number of wounded and killed.
Which would equate to about 40,000 KILLED and that death number would be in line with the estimates from the British and the U.S.
But the poster is claiming that ~ 230,000 Russian soldiers have been killed in the last year.

Re: Russian Deaths in Ukraine

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From: le...@main.lekno.ws (Louis Epstein)
Newsgroups: alt.obituaries
Subject: Re: Russian Deaths in Ukraine
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2023 07:20:39 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and UNIX, NYC
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 by: Louis Epstein - Tue, 11 Jul 2023 07:20 UTC

Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
> Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>> Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>>> Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>>>> Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>>>>> Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>>>>>> Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>>>>>>> Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Louis Epstein <le@lekno.ws> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Louis Epstein <le@lekno.ws> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Louis Epstein <le@lekno.ws> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Louis Epstein <le@lekno.ws> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Louis Epstein <le@lekno.ws> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Something seems to have made old messages & threads
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> inaccessible at Panix?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Apparently it was a massive dump of binaries erasing the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> news server's scroll)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In any case,the reported (by Ukraine) number of Russian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> military deaths in Ukraine passed 175,000 on the 404th day
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the invasion (a much bloodier pace,as my old thread noted,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than American losses in Vietnam,though less than the Russians
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lost against Napoleon or Hitler).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/04/7396148/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Despite a slowing of pace,the 180,000 death mark was passed
>>>>>>>>>>>>> on day 413:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/04/12/7397476/
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> 185,000 deaths were reached on day 422:
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/04/21/7398803/
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> 190,000 deaths were reached on day 430:
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/04/29/7399953/
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 195,000 deaths were reached on day 440:
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/05/9/7401282/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 200,000 deaths were reached on day 448:
>>>>>>>>> https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/05/17/7402549/
>>>>>>>> [URL CORRECTED ABOVE]
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 205,000 deaths were reached on day 456:
>>>>>>>> https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/05/25/7403758/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 210,000 deaths were reached on day 467:
>>>>>>> https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/06/5/7405302/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 215,000 deaths were reached on day 473:
>>>>>> https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/06/11/7406323/
>>>>>
>>>>> Day 476 number is 217,330...
>>>>
>>>> 220,000 deaths were reached on day 481:
>>>> https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/06/19/7407431/
>>>
>>> 225,000 deaths were reached on day 488:
>>> https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/06/26/7408522/
>>
>> 230,000 deaths were reached on day 495:
>> https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/07/3/7409573/
>
> The Day-500 number is 233,440:
> https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/07/8/7410406/

235,000 deaths were reached on day 503:
https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/07/11/7410752/

These numbers are released by the Ukrainian military and can
be taken for overestimates of one so desires,but I will continue
to post the statistical sequence.

>>>>>>>>>>>>> The @KilledinUkraine Twitter account hasn't updated their
>>>>>>>>>>>>> graphic since the 2,000 mark of verified dead Russian
>>>>>>>>>>>>> officers was reached on March 28th.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> But the steadily updated Googledoc has reached 2046:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 54 colonels,138 lieutenant colonels,268 Majors,375 captains among them.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Graphic updated today to 2,085,
>>>>>>>>>>>> 139 LtCols,265 Majors,387 Captains...no new colonels.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Graphic says 2,111 dead as of April 27,
>>>>>>>>>>> Googledoc is up to 2,117 with 273 majors (no higher ranked additions
>>>>>>>>>>> and some of these a year in arrears before being identified),392
>>>>>>>>>>> captains.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Graphic not updated.
>>>>>>>>>> Googledoc is up to 2128 with the 141 LtCols,no new majors,395 captains.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Graphic now 2160 dead as of May 11.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Not updated.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Graphic now updated May 31 with 2222 dead.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not updated since.
>>>>>
>>>>> ...but the June 13 update and other sources
>>>>> (with the number now on par with the Googledoc though the
>>>>> latter could get updated at any time)
>>>>> have not only reached 2288 officers total...
>>>>
>>>> Graphic not yet updated again...
>>>
>>> 2363 as of June 21...

Newest version of the graphic,visible as a thumbnail if one
checks the Googledoc,has 2445 total.
>>>>>>>>> Googledoc now 2185,with 56 Colonels (the two new ones died together in
>>>>>>>>> a Ukrainian strike,others may have been present too),145 LtCols,
>>>>>>>>> 279 Majors,407 captains.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 2210,with 146 LtCols,281 Majors,415 Captains.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2230,with 149 LtCols,285 Majors,416 Captains.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2253 with 58 colonels,153 LtCols,286 Majors,418 Captains.
>>>>>
>>>>> ...but confirmed the death of the first general officer in
>>>>> a year,5th overall after false/unconfirmed reports were deleted,
>>>>> like the others serving as a one-star.
>>>>> Now 60 colonels,153 ltcols,289 majors,419 captains...
>>>>
>>>> now 2319 total...61 colonels,157 lt-cols,292 majors,423 captains.
>>>
>>> now 2383 total,up to 161 LtCols,296 majors,430 captains.
>>
>> I DO NOT HAVE THE URL FOR THE GOOGLEDOC,
>
> I found it through a third-party site...
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1InyFVmu1LoSjqcWTHe4iD9cR8CNiL-5Ke5JizMlwc
> (actually was in a browser memory here too).
>
> 2479 total
> 64 colonels,167 LtCols,316 majors,441 captains.

2482,
442 captains and no higher new deaths.

>> and am no longer able to read it off Twitter unless logged in,
>
> (persists)
>
>> and have been locked out of being able to log in since October 2018.
>> Last I saw the numbers were up on those I last quoted.(2396 or so
>> total,163 LtCols...)
>>
>>>>> apparently the missile that took out Major-General (Russian 1-star,
>>>>> they have no "brigadier" rank and we have no "colonel general")
>>>>> Goryachev took out some other brass as well.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -=-=-
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.


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