I came home from Nam on Memorial Day in 1972 with 2
purple hearts and a pocketful of nothing. I took a few
weeks to unwind before finding a job driving cab. I
remember my first Memorial Day behind the wheel.
A lot of customers heading out to parties and cookouts,
anywhere with an excuse to put down some booze. Not
one customer thanked me for my service.

I let it go. But it happened again the next year. Then
the next. Not a single “Thank you for your service.” For
12 years I endured the abuse. 12 Memorial Days. I was
about to flip out. To cut loose. To let it all hang out. To
do what I had to do to keep my head from exploding,
even if it meant going nuts in the process.

Then something miraculous happened. Or so I thought.
It was my 13th Memorial Day on the job. It was after 3am,
time to call it a night. Then a straggler outside a bar
flagged me down and I took him home. After paying he
said, “Oh by the way, thanks for your service.”

I couldn’t believe it. A smile tugged at my lips, first
time in years.

“How did you know?”, I asked.

“Know what?”, he said.

"That I served. How did you know I served?”

“All I know is I called an hour ago and the cab
never showed up. I called back and they said
they misplaced my order and would get someone
on it right away. I asked how long and they said
15 minutes. But you got here in only 5. I’d call
that good service, wouldn’t you?”

I couldn't believe it. Thanks for the cab service
but still zero thanks for our wounded warriors.
Now I was really getting steamed up. I made a vow:
“If I am still alive next Memorial Day and nobody thanks
me for serving in Nam someone is going to die.”

The following year I was still alive and still driving cab.
I was halfway through my shift with a predictable zero
“Thank You” count and was starting to get itchy. I was
dispatched to a hotel for my next ride. A guy going out to
the bars. I didn’t look at him. He told me where he was
going. His voice sounded familiar. That’s when I started
checking him out in the rearview. It was coming to me
but it wasn’t clear. I stopped at a red light and turned
around for a better look. I couldn't believe it.

“Hutchins!”, I cried.

He looked at me and said, “Joseph? Is that you?:”

“Damn straight Lieutenant”, I said. It’s about time I
picked up somebody who knows what's happening.
Thank God I recognized you in time." He asked
what I meant.

“Well, you see Lieutenant, it's like this: I’ve been driving cab for 13 years and I’ve worked every Memorial Day and not once has anyone thanked me for my service - and to tell you the truth Lieutenant, I'm sorry, but before I saw it was you I was planning to blow your head off.”

“I know how you feel”, Hutchins said with a smile as he reached under his shirt and showed me a large loaded pistol.

“You mean………….?”

“Uh huh”, he said. "I was planning on doing the
same thing."

“Beautiful”, I replied. “I’m ready any time you are.”

He asked me to take him back to his hotel. He said
he would not be more than 5 minutes. As he exited
the cab I yelled, “Go”, and started looking at my watch.
Sure enough he was back to the cab in 4 minutes and
58 seconds. He was toting a box of loaded rifles. He
was smartly outfitted in full dress uniform. I told him I
didn't live far away and would like to wear my uniform
too. He said, "A good suggestion, Private Joseph", and
we were off.

Then we found a lively spot with a bunch of people
grooving to music blaring from an outside stage. There
was a lot of meat in that crowd.

“Hold on a sec, Hutch", I said. "Let me pop the trunk first.”
I reached into the truck and propped up a large industrial
size boombox that fit perfectly into the trunk. The trunk
lid was up - the speakers pointed outward, the volume cranked
up all the way. But it was not on I would not turn it on till we
arrived at our target. Remote control. We were strapped with
rifles. Plenty of ammo.

“Let’s do this thing”, I yelled, charging into the crowd after
hitting the remote control button to turn on the industrial
size stereo as Paul Anka’s version of "My Way" blasted
through the night air as Hutch and I stormed into the crowd
unloading ammo into anything that moved and a few things
that didn’t. The cops arrived as we knew they would. At first
we thought it would be a suicide mission but decided that
getting arrested would be a better way to get out the message
that our warriors need more respect than they’re getting -
especially on patriotic holidays. I am writing this from a
NC State Prison. I am up for parole next month. So is
Hutch. I got all the killing out of my system. Hutch told me
he did too. I am now a threat to no one, not even myself.
I am cleansed. May God bless everyone. Love to all.
See you soon. And don't worry people, I got your 6.

Private First Class Thomas Joseph

Thomas Joseph <jazeev1234@gmail.com> wrote in
news:a3b6e23e-7ff7-4ca3-8d20-d5dfca453bc3n@googlegroups.com:

> I came home from Nam on Memorial Day in 1972 with 2
> purple hearts and a pocketful of nothing. I took a few
> weeks to unwind before finding a job driving cab. I
> remember my first Memorial Day behind the wheel.
> A lot of customers heading out to parties and cookouts,
> anywhere with an excuse to put down some booze. Not
> one customer thanked me for my service.
>
> I let it go. But it happened again the next year. Then
> the next. Not a single “Thank you for your service.” For
> 12 years I endured the abuse. 12 Memorial Days. I was
> about to flip out. To cut loose. To let it all hang out. To
> do what I had to do to keep my head from exploding,
> even if it meant going nuts in the process.
>
> Then something miraculous happened. Or so I thought.
> It was my 13th Memorial Day on the job. It was after 3am,
> time to call it a night. Then a straggler outside a bar
> flagged me down and I took him home. After paying he
> said, “Oh by the way, thanks for your service.”
>
> I couldn’t believe it. A smile tugged at my lips, first
> time in years.
>
> “How did you know?”, I asked.
>
> “Know what?”, he said.
>
> "That I served. How did you know I served?”
>
> “All I know is I called an hour ago and the cab
> never showed up. I called back and they said
> they misplaced my order and would get someone
> on it right away. I asked how long and they said
> 15 minutes. But you got here in only 5. I’d call
> that good service, wouldn’t you?”
>
> I couldn't believe it. Thanks for the cab service
> but still zero thanks for our wounded warriors.
> Now I was really getting steamed up. I made a vow:
> “If I am still alive next Memorial Day and nobody thanks
> me for serving in Nam someone is going to die.”
>
> The following year I was still alive and still driving cab.
> I was halfway through my shift with a predictable zero
> “Thank You” count and was starting to get itchy. I was
> dispatched to a hotel for my next ride. A guy going out to
> the bars. I didn’t look at him. He told me where he was
> going. His voice sounded familiar. That’s when I started
> checking him out in the rearview. It was coming to me
> but it wasn’t clear. I stopped at a red light and turned
> around for a better look. I couldn't believe it.
>
> “Hutchins!”, I cried.
>
> He looked at me and said, “Joseph? Is that you?:”
>
> “Damn straight Lieutenant”, I said. It’s about time I
> picked up somebody who knows what's happening.
> Thank God I recognized you in time." He asked
> what I meant.
>
> “Well, you see Lieutenant, it's like this: I’ve been driving cab
> for 13 years and I’ve worked every Memorial Day and not once has
> anyone thanked me for my service - and to tell you the truth
> Lieutenant, I'm sorry, but before I saw it was you I was planning to
> blow your head off.”
>
> “I know how you feel”, Hutchins said with a smile as he reached
> under his shirt and showed me a large loaded pistol.
>
> “You mean………….?”
>
> “Uh huh”, he said. "I was planning on doing the
> same thing."
>
> “Beautiful”, I replied. “I’m ready any time you are.”
>
> He asked me to take him back to his hotel. He said
> he would not be more than 5 minutes. As he exited
> the cab I yelled, “Go”, and started looking at my watch.
> Sure enough he was back to the cab in 4 minutes and
> 58 seconds. He was toting a box of loaded rifles. He
> was smartly outfitted in full dress uniform. I told him I
> didn't live far away and would like to wear my uniform
> too. He said, "A good suggestion, Private Joseph", and
> we were off.
>
> Then we found a lively spot with a bunch of people
> grooving to music blaring from an outside stage. There
> was a lot of meat in that crowd.
>
> “Hold on a sec, Hutch", I said. "Let me pop the trunk first.”
> I reached into the truck and propped up a large industrial
> size boombox that fit perfectly into the trunk. The trunk
> lid was up - the speakers pointed outward, the volume cranked
> up all the way. But it was not on I would not turn it on till we
> arrived at our target. Remote control. We were strapped with
> rifles. Plenty of ammo.
>
> “Let’s do this thing”, I yelled, charging into the crowd after
> hitting the remote control button to turn on the industrial
> size stereo as Paul Anka’s version of "My Way" blasted
> through the night air as Hutch and I stormed into the crowd
> unloading ammo into anything that moved and a few things
> that didn’t. The cops arrived as we knew they would. At first
> we thought it would be a suicide mission but decided that
> getting arrested would be a better way to get out the message
> that our warriors need more respect than they’re getting -
> especially on patriotic holidays. I am writing this from a
> NC State Prison. I am up for parole next month. So is
> Hutch. I got all the killing out of my system. Hutch told me
> he did too. I am now a threat to no one, not even myself.
> I am cleansed. May God bless everyone. Love to all.
> See you soon. And don't worry people, I got your 6.
>
> Private First Class Thomas Joseph
>

Thank you and all that have served at any time! Regardless of the day
let us know you served so that we can recognize you and provide our
thanks in person.

David LaRue wrote:

> Thank you and all that have served at any time! Regardless of the day
> let us know you served so that we can recognize you and provide our
> thanks in person.

I didn't serve in Nam. They turned me down after I served 10 years
in Korea. I fought in Korea. I was too young for WW2. Too old
for Nam. Or so they say. I can whip most of the young punks
of today's all volunteer military. Yet because of my age they
wouldn't let me join. I wanted so desperately to fight in Iraq
and Afghanistan. But again they said I was too old. That's
age discrimination. I will fight to the death to put an end to
all forms of discrimination. But mostly age discrimination,
which is the worst. Their refusal to let me kill on foreign soil
roils within me to this day and could one day emerge in a
violent display of domestic comeuppance. Dig?

Thomas Joseph <jazeev1234@gmail.com> wrote:
> David LaRue wrote:
>
>> Thank you and all that have served at any time! Regardless of the day
>> let us know you served so that we can recognize you and provide our
>> thanks in person.
>
>
> I didn't serve in Nam. They turned me down after I served 10 years
> in Korea.

Then why did you start this thread with "I came home from Nam
on Memorial Day 1972 with two purple hearts and a pocketful of
nothing."

> I fought in Korea. I was too young for WW2. Too old
> for Nam. Or so they say. I can whip most of the young punks
> of today's all volunteer military. Yet because of my age they
> wouldn't let me join. I wanted so desperately to fight in Iraq
> and Afghanistan. But again they said I was too old. That's
> age discrimination. I will fight to the death to put an end to
> all forms of discrimination. But mostly age discrimination,
> which is the worst. Their refusal to let me kill on foreign soil
> roils within me to this day and could one day emerge in a
> violent display of domestic comeuppance. Dig?

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

Louis Epstein wrote:
Thomas Joseph wrote:

> > I didn't serve in Nam. They turned me down after I served 10 years
> > in Korea.

> Then why did you start this thread with "I came home from Nam
> on Memorial Day 1972 with two purple hearts and a pocketful of
> nothing."

It was a tiny piece of fiction Mr. Towers Will Rise Again. Some
people like it, some don't. I enjoyed writing it. The truth - my best
friend - is that I beat the draft when I was a kid. I had it planned.
I knew how I was going to do it. It had nothing to do with Vietnam,
at least not at first. I was raised in institutions with lots of discipline.
I had enough of it. The last thing I wanted on turning age 18 was
blowing a bugle to get me out of bed. I was proud of the story I
invented to get out and also pleasantly surprised by a guy
with lots of stripes at the induction center who knew (and I
wanted him to know) that I was screwing up some of their
tests on purpose: "Mr. Joseph, you don't want to be in the military,
do you?", to which I replied, "No I do not", to which he replied, "And we
don't want you", which stunned me in a pleasant way. The guy was
sincere. Before leaving his office to return to taking the test I said,
"But what about the tests?", and he laughed and said, "Don't worry
it, just take the tests." He reminded me of the principal who booted
me out of school when I was 15 (I couldn't wait to get out of there).
He asked a similar question. But instead of the military it was
school. "You don't like school, do you Joseph?", he said. "No I
do not", I replied. He told me to go upstairs and get my books.
I had no idea what he was going to do. I never saw him a human,
just an authority. But when I came down with the book, he said, "Put
them on the table", and I did. Then he said, "Ok, you can go." I was
stunned. "You mean..........?," and he said, "Yes, you don't have to come
back." I can't remember how many times I said thank you to the guy
and how he looked at me knowing my thanks were genuine and for
the first time ever I saw the guy as a human being - the day he booted
me out of school. Or more accurately, the day I forced him to boot me out...

In article <ee6b151e-40b6-4060-be6c-1a89c3f8c537n@googlegroups.com>,
Thomas Joseph <jazeev1234@gmail.com> wrote:

> Louis Epstein wrote:
> Thomas Joseph wrote:
>
>
> > > I didn't serve in Nam. They turned me down after I served 10 years
> > > in Korea.
>
> > Then why did you start this thread with "I came home from Nam
> > on Memorial Day 1972 with two purple hearts and a pocketful of
> > nothing."
>
>
> It was a tiny piece of fiction Mr. Towers Will Rise Again. Some
> people like it, some don't. I enjoyed writing it. The truth - my best
> friend - is that I beat the draft when I was a kid. I had it planned.
> I knew how I was going to do it. It had nothing to do with Vietnam,
> at least not at first. I was raised in institutions with lots of discipline.
> I had enough of it. The last thing I wanted on turning age 18 was
> blowing a bugle to get me out of bed. I was proud of the story I
> invented to get out and also pleasantly surprised by a guy
> with lots of stripes at the induction center who knew (and I
> wanted him to know) that I was screwing up some of their
> tests on purpose: "Mr. Joseph, you don't want to be in the military,
> do you?", to which I replied, "No I do not", to which he replied, "And we
> don't want you", which stunned me in a pleasant way. The guy was
> sincere. Before leaving his office to return to taking the test I said,
> "But what about the tests?", and he laughed and said, "Don't worry
> it, just take the tests." He reminded me of the principal who booted
> me out of school when I was 15 (I couldn't wait to get out of there).
> He asked a similar question. But instead of the military it was
> school. "You don't like school, do you Joseph?", he said. "No I
> do not", I replied. He told me to go upstairs and get my books.
> I had no idea what he was going to do. I never saw him a human,
> just an authority. But when I came down with the book, he said, "Put
> them on the table", and I did. Then he said, "Ok, you can go." I was
> stunned. "You mean..........?," and he said, "Yes, you don't have to come
> back." I can't remember how many times I said thank you to the guy
> and how he looked at me knowing my thanks were genuine and for
> the first time ever I saw the guy as a human being - the day he booted
> me out of school. Or more accurately, the day I forced him to boot me out...

You kids today. The easiest way to beat the draft physical was to stay
awake for at least 24 hours prior to being examined. The other way was
to win the draft lottery, which I did. I was 1-A but my number was so
far down the list that I never got called. Fine with me.

In article <030620230743171935%nope@noway.com>, A Friend <A Friend> wrote:
....
>You kids today. The easiest way to beat the draft physical was to stay
>awake for at least 24 hours prior to being examined. The other way was
>to win the draft lottery, which I did. I was 1-A but my number was so
>far down the list that I never got called. Fine with me.

(I have no personal stake in this, as I am too young to have been affected
by the draft. I do, however, have many family members old enough to have
been affected... [many of them gung ho military, many who enlisted])

Anyway, reading the above, my reaction is that just as jury trials are
decided by 12 people too stupid to get out of jury duty (credit: Archie
Bunker), wars get fought by people too stupid to beat the draft (the
extension of this idea to the current situation of the all-volunteer
services -- is left as an exercise for the reader).

Note, BTW, that people were falling all over themselves to enlist in WW2,
which really was the last good war (*). Everything since then has been BS
(and about oil).

(*) I really do believe that we needed to be there and that we played a
pivotal role in the outcome.

--
I've been watching cat videos on YouTube. More content and closer to
the truth than anything on Fox.

A Friend wrote:

>>. . .

>You kids today. The easiest way to beat the draft physical was to stay
>awake for at least 24 hours prior to being examined. The other way was
>to win the draft lottery, which I did. I was 1-A but my number was so
>far down the list that I never got called. Fine with me.

Jimmah Carter made me register for the draft to get the Rooskies out of
Afghanistan. I never quite got the connection.

I always figured I'd be drafted for WWIII.

In article <u5fkg4$gp2i$1@news.xmission.com>, Kenny McCormack
<gazelle@shell.xmission.com> wrote:

> In article <030620230743171935%nope@noway.com>, A Friend <A Friend> wrote:
> ...
> >You kids today. The easiest way to beat the draft physical was to stay
> >awake for at least 24 hours prior to being examined. The other way was
> >to win the draft lottery, which I did. I was 1-A but my number was so
> >far down the list that I never got called. Fine with me.
>
> (I have no personal stake in this, as I am too young to have been affected
> by the draft. I do, however, have many family members old enough to have
> been affected... [many of them gung ho military, many who enlisted])
>
> Anyway, reading the above, my reaction is that just as jury trials are
> decided by 12 people too stupid to get out of jury duty (credit: Archie
> Bunker), wars get fought by people too stupid to beat the draft (the
> extension of this idea to the current situation of the all-volunteer
> services -- is left as an exercise for the reader).

I hasten to point out that I did not "beat the draft" or dodge it or
anything. I was 1-A and subject to the draft, and I did nothing to
avoid it. I got lucky in the lottery.

BTW the rush of volunteers at the outset of WW2 required the government
to resort to the draft simply to keep the services from becoming
overwhelmed with recruits.

> Note, BTW, that people were falling all over themselves to enlist in WW2

Counter-example: Isaac Asimov. Cf. his autobiography.

> which really was the last good war (*). Everything since then has been BS
> (and about oil).
>
> (*) I really do believe that we needed to be there and that we played a
> pivotal role in the outcome.

A Friend wrote:
>Kenny McCormack <gazelle@shell.xmission.com> wrote:
>>A Friend wrote:

>>...
>>>You kids today. The easiest way to beat the draft physical was to stay
>>>awake for at least 24 hours prior to being examined. The other way was
>>>to win the draft lottery, which I did. I was 1-A but my number was so
>>>far down the list that I never got called. Fine with me.

>>(I have no personal stake in this, as I am too young to have been affected
>>by the draft. I do, however, have many family members old enough to have
>>been affected... [many of them gung ho military, many who enlisted])

>>Anyway, reading the above, my reaction is that just as jury trials are
>>decided by 12 people too stupid to get out of jury duty (credit: Archie
>>Bunker), wars get fought by people too stupid to beat the draft (the
>>extension of this idea to the current situation of the all-volunteer
>>services -- is left as an exercise for the reader).

>I hasten to point out that I did not "beat the draft" or dodge it or
>anything. I was 1-A and subject to the draft, and I did nothing to
>avoid it. I got lucky in the lottery.

>BTW the rush of volunteers at the outset of WW2 required the government
>to resort to the draft simply to keep the services from becoming
>overwhelmed with recruits.

>>Note, BTW, that people were falling all over themselves to enlist in WW2

>Counter-example: Isaac Asimov. Cf. his autobiography.

No kidding. There was no shortage of people in the late 1930s who were
isolationist. A minority of Americans perceived Hitler and Germany to be
a threat to world peace or an American interest or, like Asimov, just
thought not participating in war would advance the cause of world peace.

Congress did what it could to prevent the administration from even
supplying armaments to the UK and other European allies.

The public attitude didn't change till Japan attacked.

>>which really was the last good war (*). Everything since then has been BS
>>(and about oil).

>>(*) I really do believe that we needed to be there and that we played a
>>pivotal role in the outcome.

We lost central Europe to Stalin. The outcome of WWII wasn't benign.
Then we had the entirely avoidable shitstorm of Korea.

Like WWI, we managed to snatch a whole lot of defeat from the jaws of victory
at the peace negotiations.

In article <u5g5tm$3l7sj$1@dont-email.me>, Adam H. Kerman
<ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

> A Friend wrote:
> >Kenny McCormack <gazelle@shell.xmission.com> wrote:
> >>A Friend wrote:
>
> >>...
> >>>You kids today. The easiest way to beat the draft physical was to stay
> >>>awake for at least 24 hours prior to being examined. The other way was
> >>>to win the draft lottery, which I did. I was 1-A but my number was so
> >>>far down the list that I never got called. Fine with me.
>
> >>(I have no personal stake in this, as I am too young to have been affected
> >>by the draft. I do, however, have many family members old enough to have
> >>been affected... [many of them gung ho military, many who enlisted])
>
> >>Anyway, reading the above, my reaction is that just as jury trials are
> >>decided by 12 people too stupid to get out of jury duty (credit: Archie
> >>Bunker), wars get fought by people too stupid to beat the draft (the
> >>extension of this idea to the current situation of the all-volunteer
> >>services -- is left as an exercise for the reader).
>
> >I hasten to point out that I did not "beat the draft" or dodge it or
> >anything. I was 1-A and subject to the draft, and I did nothing to
> >avoid it. I got lucky in the lottery.
>
> >BTW the rush of volunteers at the outset of WW2 required the government
> >to resort to the draft simply to keep the services from becoming
> >overwhelmed with recruits.
>
> >>Note, BTW, that people were falling all over themselves to enlist in WW2
>
> >Counter-example: Isaac Asimov. Cf. his autobiography.
>
> No kidding. There was no shortage of people in the late 1930s who were
> isolationist. A minority of Americans perceived Hitler and Germany to be
> a threat to world peace or an American interest or, like Asimov, just
> thought not participating in war would advance the cause of world peace.

You misunderstand. In his autobiography, Asimov made no secret of his
motives in stalling the draft: He simply did not want to go. He did
not want to be in the army. He did not want to leave home. He wasn't
drafted until the war was over and spent IIRC less than a year in the
army before he took advantage of an early discharge initiative.

Asimov (who always paid his own way) was still pursuing his doctorate
at the time and, because of the way he felt, didn't want to make use of
tuition programs for veterans. He wrote that his father more or less
browbeat him into doing so, a thing Asimov still regretted decades
later.

A Friend <A Friend> wrote:
>In article <u5g5tm$3l7sj$1@dont-email.me>, Adam H. Kerman
><ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>
>> A Friend wrote:
>> >Kenny McCormack <gazelle@shell.xmission.com> wrote:
>> >>A Friend wrote:
>>
>> >>...
>> >>>You kids today. The easiest way to beat the draft physical was to stay
>> >>>awake for at least 24 hours prior to being examined. The other way was
>> >>>to win the draft lottery, which I did. I was 1-A but my number was so
>> >>>far down the list that I never got called. Fine with me.
>>
>> >>(I have no personal stake in this, as I am too young to have been affected
>> >>by the draft. I do, however, have many family members old enough to have
>> >>been affected... [many of them gung ho military, many who enlisted])
>>
>> >>Anyway, reading the above, my reaction is that just as jury trials are
>> >>decided by 12 people too stupid to get out of jury duty (credit: Archie
>> >>Bunker), wars get fought by people too stupid to beat the draft (the
>> >>extension of this idea to the current situation of the all-volunteer
>> >>services -- is left as an exercise for the reader).
>>
>> >I hasten to point out that I did not "beat the draft" or dodge it or
>> >anything. I was 1-A and subject to the draft, and I did nothing to
>> >avoid it. I got lucky in the lottery.
>>
>> >BTW the rush of volunteers at the outset of WW2 required the government
>> >to resort to the draft simply to keep the services from becoming
>> >overwhelmed with recruits.
>>
>> >>Note, BTW, that people were falling all over themselves to enlist in WW2
>>
>> >Counter-example: Isaac Asimov. Cf. his autobiography.
>>
>> No kidding. There was no shortage of people in the late 1930s who were
>> isolationist. A minority of Americans perceived Hitler and Germany to be
>> a threat to world peace or an American interest or, like Asimov, just
>> thought not participating in war would advance the cause of world peace.
>
>
>You misunderstand. In his autobiography, Asimov made no secret of his
>motives in stalling the draft: He simply did not want to go. He did
>not want to be in the army. He did not want to leave home. He wasn't
>drafted until the war was over and spent IIRC less than a year in the
>army before he took advantage of an early discharge initiative.

I haven't read this since I was a kid. I thought it was some sort of
peace activist thing.

>Asimov (who always paid his own way) was still pursuing his doctorate
>at the time and, because of the way he felt, didn't want to make use of
>tuition programs for veterans. He wrote that his father more or less
>browbeat him into doing so, a thing Asimov still regretted decades
>later.

I didn't remember this part of the story.

A Friend wrote:
> You kids today. The easiest way to beat the draft physical was to stay
> awake for at least 24 hours prior to being examined. The other way was
> to win the draft lottery, which I did. I was 1-A but my number was so
> far down the list that I never got called. Fine with me.

Plan B for me was to accept being a military member but to
not do anything they told me to do. Like get up in the morning.
Sure, I'd get sent to the brig or whatever, but I'd get out.

But I am very proud of the way I did it. At the end of the day
when asked on a form sheet if I was homosexual or straight
with only YES or NO boxes available I crossed them both out
and put down, "I don't know." That's probably what got me out.
But I'd like to think it was something that happened earlier in
the day because it was impromptu, and looking back kind of
gutty - the kind of guts I don't have today.

We were at our desks going through a pamphlet listing
all organizations deemed inappropriate by the House of
UnAmerican Activities panel. I was going along checking
all the "NO" boxes till I came to "American Nazi Party."

I had just the day before read an interview in Playboy magazine
with American Nazi leader George Lincoln Rockwell. It was
hilarious. The guy was ahead of his time comedy wise. No
one seems to ever look at the guy as a comic, but that's what
he was - and he know it. He loved playing the role.

Anyway, it just came to me sitting there checking off these
YES and NO boxes that it's time to make something happen.
I raised my hand and waved it. The guy giving the tests
came to my desk and said, "What?" I responded with a
shrug and a whisper. "What? What?", he asked again.

I told him I didn't know how to answer the question: "Am
I now or have I ever been a member of the American Nazi
Party." He said, "So what, just put in yes or no." I told him
I'm sorry, I can't do that. When he asked why I told him,
"Because I don't want to lie. I don't want to perjure myself."
Then I went on to explain, all spur of the moment - and I'm
so proud - that I was not a member but was thinking of
joining. "So", I told him, "if I say I'm not a member now but
join tomorrow I could be accused of lying. Or the other way.
If I say I am a member but then decide not to join, I could
be accused of lying then too."

He sent me down the hall to a superior. A guy with a lot
of stripes. He was very gentlemanly. He had my papers
in his hands. That's when he said, "You really don't want
to be in the army, do you Mr. Joseph?", and I said, "No
I do not", and he said, "And we don't want you!", to which
I replied, "You mean that's it, I'm out?" He laughed and
told me to just go back to taking the test and hinted with
or without words, can't remember, that I should not worry,
that everything is going to work out ok. And it did. I enjoyed
the impromptu aspect of my actions. I had not planned any
of it. Believe me, I was determined not to go. Now, would I
challenge them if it meant being put up against the wall?
That I can't say but I probably doubt it. Point is, a lot of
people can do a lot of stuff they think they can't (as long
as there aren't so many of them they are seen as a threat).

Sorry for the length. Am I really sorry? I don't think so.
But it's polite to say it. Polite and phony. No really, I do
apologize for the length of this post and will explain just
how much in a followup post to be written later on.

Kenny McCormack wrote:

> Note, BTW, that people were falling all over themselves to enlist in WW2,
> which really was the last good war (*). Everything since then has been BS
> (and about oil).

I enjoyed your post. Yes, if people want out bad enough they can
make it happen, so don't come crying to me. But then you got on
the WW2 'last good war' bandwagon and you lost me. I am sorry,
but if there were no draft in WW2 - AND the civil war AND others
fought by this country - there would have been very few people
in uniform. Most people were against getting involved. Sure,
celebrities and other notables and non notables would join a
branch of the service where being on the front lines was less
likely. Funny thing, I was always against the draft but have
come to see the all voluntary military as a form of it - that
they are drafting themselves into the military to keep out of
stateside mental institutions and prisons or away from the
ever burning psycho desire to kill a bunch of people in a
domestic showdown of explosive emotions blasting free like
shrapnel from a grenade. Sorry for all the words. To the point
once again: If it were not for the draft there would not have
been enough soldiers for WW2, last 'good war' or not.

Adam H. Kerman wrote:

> I always figured I'd be drafted for WWIII.

WW111 is going on right now. Everyone is involved. The
explosion can't be seen yet. Like the flare of a burning up
planet it won't be seen till after it happens.

On 6/3/2023 12:59 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
> A Friend wrote:
>
>>> . . .
>
>> You kids today. The easiest way to beat the draft physical was to stay
>> awake for at least 24 hours prior to being examined. The other way was
>> to win the draft lottery, which I did. I was 1-A but my number was so
>> far down the list that I never got called. Fine with me.
>
> Jimmah Carter made me register for the draft to get the Rooskies out of
> Afghanistan. I never quite got the connection.
>
> I always figured I'd be drafted for WWIII.

SO LONG, MOM
(A Song for World War III)
Words and Music by Tom Lehrer

So long, Mom,
I'm off to drop the bomb
So don't wait up for me.
But while you swelter
Down there in your shelter
You can see me
On your TV.

While we're attacking frontally
Watch Brinkally and Huntally
Describing contrapuntally
The cities we have lost.
No need for you to miss a minute
Of the agonizing holocaust.

Little Johnny Jones he was a U.S. pilot,
And no shrinking violet was he.
He was mighty proud when World War Three was declared.
He wasn't scared, no siree!
And this is what he said on
His way to Armageddon:

So long, Mom,
I'm off to drop the bomb,
So don't wait up for me.
But though I may roam
I'll come back to my home
Although it may be
A pile of debris.

Remember, Mommy,
I'm off to get a Commie
So send me a salami
And try to smile somehow.
I'll look for you when the war is over --
An hour and a half from now

David Samuel Barr <dsbarr@mindspring.com> wrote:
>On 6/3/2023 12:59 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
>>A Friend wrote:

>>>>. . .

>>>You kids today. The easiest way to beat the draft physical was to stay
>>>awake for at least 24 hours prior to being examined. The other way was
>>>to win the draft lottery, which I did. I was 1-A but my number was so
>>>far down the list that I never got called. Fine with me.

>>Jimmah Carter made me register for the draft to get the Rooskies out of
>>Afghanistan. I never quite got the connection.

>>I always figured I'd be drafted for WWIII.

>SO LONG, MOM
>(A Song for World War III)
>Words and Music by Tom Lehrer

>So long, Mom,
>I'm off to drop the bomb
>So don't wait up for me.
>But while you swelter
>Down there in your shelter
>You can see me
>On your TV.

Well, I wouldn't have been drafted for the air force. I'm sure I'd have
been in the infantry.

>While we're attacking frontally
>Watch Brinkally and Huntally

Heh

>Describing contrapuntally
>The cities we have lost.
>No need for you to miss a minute
>Of the agonizing holocaust.

>Little Johnny Jones he was a U.S. pilot,
>And no shrinking violet was he.
>He was mighty proud when World War Three was declared.
>He wasn't scared, no siree!
>And this is what he said on
>His way to Armageddon:

>So long, Mom,
>I'm off to drop the bomb,
>So don't wait up for me.
>But though I may roam
>I'll come back to my home
>Although it may be
>A pile of debris.

Oh, I agree with Lehrer. Civilian areas would have been nuked. In
full-out war, no soldier would have a home to return to.

Just look at the way Russia has waged war in Chechnya and now Ukraine.
Civilians are deliberately targeted.

>Remember, Mommy,
>I'm off to get a Commie
>So send me a salami

Not sure of the reference here.

>And try to smile somehow.
>I'll look for you when the war is over --
>An hour and a half from now

More like 8 minutes.

In article <u5iedd$ks3$3@dont-email.me>, Adam H. Kerman
<ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

> >Remember, Mommy,
> >I'm off to get a Commie
> >So send me a salami
>
> Not sure of the reference here.

The origin is Katz's Delicatessen in NYC. Big place, down around
Houston St. in Manhattan IIRC. Very well known. They did a lot of
mail order. One of their many sales pitches was "Send a salami to your
boy in the Army."

A Friend wrote:
>Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

>>>Remember, Mommy,
>>>I'm off to get a Commie
>>>So send me a salami

>>Not sure of the reference here.

>The origin is Katz's Delicatessen in NYC. Big place, down around
>Houston St. in Manhattan IIRC. Very well known. They did a lot of
>mail order. One of their many sales pitches was "Send a salami to your
>boy in the Army."

Thanks. I can hear the rhyme with the right accent.

Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
> A Friend <A Friend> wrote:
>>In article <u5g5tm$3l7sj$1@dont-email.me>, Adam H. Kerman
>><ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>>
>>> A Friend wrote:
>>> >Kenny McCormack <gazelle@shell.xmission.com> wrote:
>>> >>A Friend wrote:
>>>
>>> >>...
>>> >>>You kids today. The easiest way to beat the draft physical was to stay
>>> >>>awake for at least 24 hours prior to being examined. The other way was
>>> >>>to win the draft lottery, which I did. I was 1-A but my number was so
>>> >>>far down the list that I never got called. Fine with me.
>>>
>>> >>(I have no personal stake in this, as I am too young to have been affected
>>> >>by the draft. I do, however, have many family members old enough to have
>>> >>been affected... [many of them gung ho military, many who enlisted])
>>>
>>> >>Anyway, reading the above, my reaction is that just as jury trials are
>>> >>decided by 12 people too stupid to get out of jury duty (credit: Archie
>>> >>Bunker), wars get fought by people too stupid to beat the draft (the
>>> >>extension of this idea to the current situation of the all-volunteer
>>> >>services -- is left as an exercise for the reader).
>>>
>>> >I hasten to point out that I did not "beat the draft" or dodge it or
>>> >anything. I was 1-A and subject to the draft, and I did nothing to
>>> >avoid it. I got lucky in the lottery.
>>>
>>> >BTW the rush of volunteers at the outset of WW2 required the government
>>> >to resort to the draft simply to keep the services from becoming
>>> >overwhelmed with recruits.
>>>
>>> >>Note, BTW, that people were falling all over themselves to enlist in WW2
>>>
>>> >Counter-example: Isaac Asimov. Cf. his autobiography.
>>>
>>> No kidding. There was no shortage of people in the late 1930s who were
>>> isolationist. A minority of Americans perceived Hitler and Germany to be
>>> a threat to world peace or an American interest or, like Asimov, just
>>> thought not participating in war would advance the cause of world peace.
>>
>>
>>You misunderstand. In his autobiography, Asimov made no secret of his
>>motives in stalling the draft: He simply did not want to go. He did
>>not want to be in the army. He did not want to leave home. He wasn't
>>drafted until the war was over and spent IIRC less than a year in the
>>army before he took advantage of an early discharge initiative.
>
> I haven't read this since I was a kid. I thought it was some sort of
> peace activist thing.

Other ancillary items from his autobiography:
The one time in his life that he flew in an airplane (he had such
an intense fear of heights that being lifted up in a cherry-picker
gave him vertigo) was under military orders with severe penalties
for disobedience.
His official birthdate of January 2,1920 was something of a best
guesstimate,but his parents wanted him enrolled in school early
so rather than wait until children born in 1920 were eligible they
submitted an alternate birthdate for him in September 1919,which
he outspokenly questioned as a third-grade (as I recall) student
and had the school records changed...had he not done so,the very
day his final draft induction notice arrived would have been the
date that he became too old to be drafted.
>>Asimov (who always paid his own way) was still pursuing his doctorate
>>at the time and, because of the way he felt, didn't want to make use of
>>tuition programs for veterans. He wrote that his father more or less
>>browbeat him into doing so, a thing Asimov still regretted decades
>>later.
>
> I didn't remember this part of the story.

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
> David Samuel Barr <dsbarr@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>On 6/3/2023 12:59 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
>>>A Friend wrote:
>
>>>>>. . .
>
>>>>You kids today. The easiest way to beat the draft physical was to stay
>>>>awake for at least 24 hours prior to being examined. The other way was
>>>>to win the draft lottery, which I did. I was 1-A but my number was so
>>>>far down the list that I never got called. Fine with me.
>
>>>Jimmah Carter made me register for the draft to get the Rooskies out of
>>>Afghanistan. I never quite got the connection.
>
>>>I always figured I'd be drafted for WWIII.
>
>>SO LONG, MOM
>>(A Song for World War III)
>>Words and Music by Tom Lehrer
>
>>So long, Mom,
>>I'm off to drop the bomb
>>So don't wait up for me.
>>But while you swelter
>>Down there in your shelter
>>You can see me
>>On your TV.
>
> Well, I wouldn't have been drafted for the air force. I'm sure I'd have
> been in the infantry.

Military veterans have counseled,if you want to make sure you
don't get killed in a war,enlist in the Air Force and DON'T FLY.
>>While we're attacking frontally
>>Watch Brinkally and Huntally
>
> Heh
>
>>Describing contrapuntally
>>The cities we have lost.
>>No need for you to miss a minute
>>Of the agonizing holocaust.
>
>>Little Johnny Jones he was a U.S. pilot,
>>And no shrinking violet was he.
>>He was mighty proud when World War Three was declared.
>>He wasn't scared, no siree!
>>And this is what he said on
>>His way to Armageddon:
>
>>So long, Mom,
>>I'm off to drop the bomb,
>>So don't wait up for me.
>>But though I may roam
>>I'll come back to my home
>>Although it may be
>>A pile of debris.
>
> Oh, I agree with Lehrer. Civilian areas would have been nuked. In
> full-out war, no soldier would have a home to return to.

Lehrer's main song on that subject being
"We Will All Go Together When We Go".

> Just look at the way Russia has waged war in Chechnya and now Ukraine.
> Civilians are deliberately targeted.
>
>>Remember, Mommy,
>>I'm off to get a Commie
>>So send me a salami
>
> Not sure of the reference here.
>
>>And try to smile somehow.
>>I'll look for you when the war is over --
>>An hour and a half from now
>
> More like 8 minutes.

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

A Friend <nope@noway.com> wrote:
> In article <u5iedd$ks3$3@dont-email.me>, Adam H. Kerman
> <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>
>> >Remember, Mommy,
>> >I'm off to get a Commie
>> >So send me a salami
>>
>> Not sure of the reference here.
>
>
> The origin is Katz's Delicatessen in NYC. Big place, down around
> Houston St. in Manhattan IIRC. Very well known. They did a lot of
> mail order. One of their many sales pitches was "Send a salami to your
> boy in the Army."

Yes,on the south side of East Houston...I swung by there one year
before that year's annual rebuilders' dinner (I've been visiting
the location for "Forever",which appears to finally now be
tenanted by someone other than "Abe's Antiques",but long stood
vacant after the show went off the air) and passed both Katz's
and Russ and Daughters,though I entered neither.

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

On 6/5/2023 2:59 AM, Louis Epstein wrote:
> Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>> David Samuel Barr <dsbarr@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>> On 6/3/2023 12:59 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
>>>> A Friend wrote:
>>
>>>>>> . . .
>>
>>>>> You kids today. The easiest way to beat the draft physical was to stay
>>>>> awake for at least 24 hours prior to being examined. The other way was
>>>>> to win the draft lottery, which I did. I was 1-A but my number was so
>>>>> far down the list that I never got called. Fine with me.
>>
>>>> Jimmah Carter made me register for the draft to get the Rooskies out of
>>>> Afghanistan. I never quite got the connection.
>>
>>>> I always figured I'd be drafted for WWIII.
>>
>>> SO LONG, MOM
>>> (A Song for World War III)
>>> Words and Music by Tom Lehrer
>>
>>> So long, Mom,
>>> I'm off to drop the bomb
>>> So don't wait up for me.
>>> But while you swelter
>>> Down there in your shelter
>>> You can see me
>>> On your TV.
>>
>> Well, I wouldn't have been drafted for the air force. I'm sure I'd have
>> been in the infantry.
>
> Military veterans have counseled,if you want to make sure you
> don't get killed in a war,enlist in the Air Force and DON'T FLY.
>
>>> While we're attacking frontally
>>> Watch Brinkally and Huntally
>>
>> Heh
>>
>>> Describing contrapuntally
>>> The cities we have lost.
>>> No need for you to miss a minute
>>> Of the agonizing holocaust.
>>
>>> Little Johnny Jones he was a U.S. pilot,
>>> And no shrinking violet was he.
>>> He was mighty proud when World War Three was declared.
>>> He wasn't scared, no siree!
>>> And this is what he said on
>>> His way to Armageddon:
>>
>>> So long, Mom,
>>> I'm off to drop the bomb,
>>> So don't wait up for me.
>>> But though I may roam
>>> I'll come back to my home
>>> Although it may be
>>> A pile of debris.
>>
>> Oh, I agree with Lehrer. Civilian areas would have been nuked. In
>> full-out war, no soldier would have a home to return to.
>
> Lehrer's main song on that subject being
> "We Will All Go Together When We Go".

When you attend a funeral
It is sad to think that sooner or
Later those you love will do the same for you.
And you may have thought it tragic,
Not to mention other adjec-
Tives, to think of all the weeping they will do.
But don't you worry.

No more ashes, no more sackcloth,
And an armband made of black cloth
Will some day never more adorn a sleeve,
For if the bomb that drops on you
Gets your friends and neighbors too
There'll be nobody left behind to grieve.

And we will all go together when we go.
What a comforting fact that is to know.
Universal bereavement,
An inspiring achievement,
Yes, we all will go together when we go.

We will all go together when we go.
All suffused with an incandescent glow.
No one will have the endurance
To collect on his insurance,
Lloyd's of London will be loaded when they go.

Oh, we will all fry together when we fry.
We'll be french-fried potatoes by and by.
There will be no more misery
When the world is our rotisserie,
Yes, we all will fry together when we fry.

Down by the old maelstrom,
There'll be a storm before the calm.

And we will all bake together when we bake.
There'll be nobody present at the wake.
With complete participation
In that grand incineration,
Nearly three billion hunks of well-done steak.

Oh, we will all char together when we char.
And let there be no moaning of the bar.
Just sing out a Te Deum
When you see that I.C.B.M.,
And the party will be "come as you are".

Oh, we will all burn together when we burn.
There'll be no need to stand and wait your turn.
When it's time for the fallout
And Saint Peter calls us all out,
We'll just drop our agendas and adjourn.

You will all go directly to your respective Valhallas.
Go directly, do not pass Go,
Do not collect two hundred dolla's.

And we will all go together when we go.
Every Hottenhot and every Eskimo.
When the air becomes uranious,
We will all go simultaneous.
Yes, we all will go together
When we all go together,
Yes, we all will go together when we go.

>> Just look at the way Russia has waged war in Chechnya and now Ukraine.
>> Civilians are deliberately targeted.
>>
>>> Remember, Mommy,
>>> I'm off to get a Commie
>>> So send me a salami
>>
>> Not sure of the reference here.
>>
>>> And try to smile somehow.
>>> I'll look for you when the war is over --
>>> An hour and a half from now
>>
>> More like 8 minutes.

Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>>David Samuel Barr <dsbarr@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>>On 6/3/2023 12:59 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
>>>>A Friend wrote:

>>>>>>. . .

>>>>>You kids today. The easiest way to beat the draft physical was to stay
>>>>>awake for at least 24 hours prior to being examined. The other way was
>>>>>to win the draft lottery, which I did. I was 1-A but my number was so
>>>>>far down the list that I never got called. Fine with me.

>>>>Jimmah Carter made me register for the draft to get the Rooskies out of
>>>>Afghanistan. I never quite got the connection.

>>>>I always figured I'd be drafted for WWIII.

>>>SO LONG, MOM
>>>(A Song for World War III)
>>>Words and Music by Tom Lehrer

>>>So long, Mom,
>>>I'm off to drop the bomb
>>>So don't wait up for me.
>>>But while you swelter
>>>Down there in your shelter
>>>You can see me
>>>On your TV.

>>Well, I wouldn't have been drafted for the air force. I'm sure I'd have
>>been in the infantry.

>Military veterans have counseled,if you want to make sure you
>don't get killed in a war,enlist in the Air Force and DON'T FLY.

I was still expecting to be drafted; wouldn't have enlisted. At my
current age, unless America gets invaded from Canada, I really don't
expect to fight in a war.
>>>. . .

In article <iBKdnaO3xMuZSuD5nZ2dnZfqn_adnZ2d@earthlink.com>, David
Samuel Barr <dsbarr@mindspring.com> wrote:

> On 6/5/2023 2:59 AM, Louis Epstein wrote:
> > Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
> >> David Samuel Barr <dsbarr@mindspring.com> wrote:
> >>> On 6/3/2023 12:59 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
> >>>> A Friend wrote:
> >>
> >>>>>> . . .
> >>
> >>>>> You kids today. The easiest way to beat the draft physical was to stay
> >>>>> awake for at least 24 hours prior to being examined. The other way was
> >>>>> to win the draft lottery, which I did. I was 1-A but my number was so
> >>>>> far down the list that I never got called. Fine with me.
> >>
> >>>> Jimmah Carter made me register for the draft to get the Rooskies out of
> >>>> Afghanistan. I never quite got the connection.
> >>
> >>>> I always figured I'd be drafted for WWIII.
> >>
> >>> SO LONG, MOM
> >>> (A Song for World War III)
> >>> Words and Music by Tom Lehrer

There was a satirical show, That Was the Week That Was, on NBC ca.
1963-65. It was the U.S. version of an established British show of the
same title; both versions were hosted by David Frost. "So Long, Mom"
debuted on TW3, as it was called, but the real controversy came when
the show did Lehrer's "The Vatican Rag." The U.S. Catholic Church was
not used to being treated that way on TV. We Catholic schoolchildren
were instructed to write protest letters to NBC, which of course I did
not do, because even at age 11 the rebellion was on.